A new EDC TQ

[03RN]

https://www.snakestaffsystems.com/
96654
Kinda disappears
96655
No patients needed a TQ tonight so I haven't tested it yet.

I liken this to a tlr7. It's small enough to carry everyday. A CAT/x300 is not. For me at least. Plus it will be effective on kids.
snow white

[luckyman]

Any data on these? If it’s like replacing a G19 with a P365XL I’m all over it, but I don’t want to be the dude that finds out the windlass breaks under real world pressure.

Currently carrying an SOFTT-W

[JPedersen]

I really like the concept. I will be looking for some real world feedback. They are currently sold out so I just signed up to be alerted as to when they are back in stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Totem Polar]

This looks great on paper and the video. Thanks for posting.

[ECVMatt]

That really looks promising! I am a school administrator and keep tourniquets in my briefcase but have not found a way to carry one discretely while walking campuses. The size, combined with the ability to work on children are very appealing. I signed up to be notified when more are in stock.

Thanks for the heads up.

[WobblyPossum]

Interesting. I’d like to see some third party testing. The videos on their website do make it look pretty appealing already though. Might be nice for off duty when I’d rather not be wearing my ankle IFAK. The ankle kit also doesn’t work well with shorts.

[WDR]

These look interesting... I'd want to see more data before trusting them, but I may be in for a few if they pan out.

[Hambo]

It would be hard for them to be worse than what I carry most of the time (nothing). I'm on the email list and will buy a couple.

[Nephrology]

I will continue to stick with something from this list (https://eturniket.com/CoTCCC-Recommended-Devices-and-Adjuncts.pdf).

[WDR]

I will continue to stick with something from this list (https://eturniket.com/CoTCCC-Recommended-Devices-and-Adjuncts.pdf).

I read somewhere that someone may be testing them. Sorta what I'm waiting for, myself.

[GearFondler]

If the stitching is secure and the windlass/capture is strong enough I don't see why it wouldn't be gtg.
The Chem light part is a bit silly IMHO, mostly because I can envision about 50 ways it will get activated by accident and while this is way out of my lane I can't imagine a scenario where EMT's are struggling to find the TQ.
And I can already hear all the Tactical Timmy's warning of Kilt in the Streetz because their TQ had an ND in an NPE.

[Totem Polar]

Yeah, I’ll just pull the chem lights and use them for Halloween next year (or, marking rooms as “clear” while doing cool-guy solo building clearing… NOT…).

:)

I have given up on keeping a real TQ on my body at work, all things considered. I do have 2 P-F approved TQs in my book bag, which is always with me, but it would be nice to have something to throw in a back pocket.

[Hambo]

I will continue to stick with something from this list (https://eturniket.com/CoTCCC-Recommended-Devices-and-Adjuncts.pdf).

I have them...in my truck. The only time I have them on me is if I have a pack while hiking/fishing/hunting. For my daily activities, it's hope I can get to the truck, use my belt, or I could carry one of these mini-me TQs.

[03RN]

Ben_FLUX on COTCCC recommendations. He's the developer and posting on arfcom.

Absolutely, we are already working on it. To clear up a shit load of confusion: (I didn't fully understand for years and years)

The Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC) has only met to review TQ data twice, as far as I am aware. Once in 2006, and again in 2018. So it will be years before they do so again, but in the words of Trauma Daddy himself (one of the members), that is good for us, because they don't do any testing themselves, they only review data, and if we have no data, then they won't/can't review it. Also, they don't approve or certify TQs, they only recommend or don't.

I think skepticism is great, you should also apply that to a lot of gear, including the big boy brands, even a lot of gear that is/was used by SOF guys turns out to be not so great. My experience with flux has been very enlightening on that front, talking to the users.

Sounds like you may know this already, but keep in mind that before being recommended, TQs have to be used a lot, the gen 7 CAT, a HUGE improvement over the gen 6, saved thousands of lives before ever being recommended

[TGS]

Some observations:

1) I've never heard of marking TQs with chem lights. It is not only unnecessary, but from the training and operations I e been exposed to it may also be counterproductive as chem-lights are used in patient areas for other purposes.

2) Manufacturer has a blase attitude towards TQ width; they say to go apply a TQ to a foam roller and measure the imprint, and it'll only be 1" wide. Well, okay, let's take that as fact for the point of the conversation...if a 1.5" strap leaves a 1" imprint, meaning only 1" of compression, then what size imprint is a 1" strap leaving? Is there something different about this construction that would allow it to perform equally well as a 1.5" strap? After all, TQs used to be made with 1" straps and migrated to 1.5" after pretty thorough documentation of both lab testing and field studies.

3) Construction of the TQ needs to be thoroughly tested and vouched for before I'd consider carrying it. Life saving gear is not something you toy around with just to "try the new thing", especially something meant for as acute a situation as a TQ is purposed for.

With all that said, I'm very interested in this. An effective TQ the size of Glock 19 mags is super cool to pull off, if possible.

[Paul Blackburn]

They are sold out anyway.

[GearFondler]

TGS

Look in their store and you will find a slightly larger but still very compact version in the 1.5" width. But also sold out for now.

If the 1" version is used in urban environments it seems highly unlikely that a situation would arise where the patient is unable to obtain proper medical treatment within a reasonable amount of time, versus the hours and hours that could pass in a battlefield situation... The extra width to help prevent tissue damage is probably not so much of an issue around modern civilization.

[TGS]

TGS

Look in their store and you will find a slightly larger but still very compact version in the 1.5" width. But also sold out for now.

If the 1" version is used in urban environments it seems highly unlikely that a situation would arise where the patient is unable to obtain proper medical treatment within a reasonable amount of time, versus the hours and hours that could pass in a battlefield situation... The extra width to help prevent tissue damage is probably not so much of an issue around modern civilization.

The extra width isn't just about preventing peripheral neuropathy.

1.5" TQs have more effective occlusion rates.

[Maca]

The issue of portability has been well solved by SWAT-T.

It works well for hemorrhage control and be used for other purposes such as pressure dressings, wraps, etc.

https://www.swat-t.com/

[TGS]

The issue of portability has been well solved by SWAT-T.

It works well for hemorrhage control and be used for other purposes such as pressure dressings, wraps, etc.

https://www.swat-t.com/

The SWAT-T is best used as a backup TQ or for use on children by others (I.e. active shooter kits at schools). It is NOT the equal of a proper mechanical windlass TQ like the CAT or SOFTW, or alternatives like the SAM or RMT.

1) It's occlusion rates are proven to be below that of a proper mechanical windlass TQ.

2) Parlor tricks excluded, it is impossible to apply one handed.

3) It can be difficult to use even with two hands once it becomes bloodied.

It's functional to a degree, but saying the issue of portability is "well-solved" is not a fair statement when it doesn't "well solve" the primary function of a TQ to begin with.

[WobblyPossum]

https://www.snakestaffsystems.com/
96654
Kinda disappears
96655
No patients needed a TQ tonight so I haven't tested it yet.

I liken this to a tlr7. It's small enough to carry everyday. A CAT/x300 is not. For me at least. Plus it will be effective on kids.
snow white

Have you messed around with getting it into action quickly if it’s carried like the photo shows (windlass already secured under the spring clip)? How easy is it to get the windlass free so you can turn it? Is it easy to do one handed?

[ST911]

I like creativity and new ideas. If what we have is all we try, we don't innovate. That said, thoughts.


By design, basically a CAT or TMT.
When folded, looks like hook and loop is exposed for fouling. Can it be folded otherwise?
Windlass is shorter than both SOF and CAT. SOF and CAT have the same length. Length of the SOF and CAT corresponds to the span between the first and fourth finger on an ~average hand, a sweet spot for leverage and dexterity manipulating the windlass. Shorter windlass will be harder for some users to manipulate to full occlusion esp with blood, loss of strength/dexterity/focus.
Chemlites go on patients in special circumstances, not on TQs. Want your TQ seen, get red/orange/lime green. Adds unnecessary process and expense.
QR on the TQ strap is gimmicky but does no harm. On packaging for pre-event use - useful.
I like the 3-step printed instructions.
ETQ Wide > ETQ

I'd throw a few in training kits to see for myself.

[03RN]

The extra width isn't just about preventing peripheral neuropathy.

1.5" TQs have more effective occlusion rates.

That's why I got the 1.5" one

This video is in response to a couple different comments. Mostly about the size, Velcro, and the windlass being secured.

I don't think these are meant to replace CATs. They are meant to be carried by those who don't or can't carry them due to size.

If they're not perfect then so be it. It's better than an improvised TQ.

https://youtube.com/shorts/PNb5FfmyYdQ?feature=share

WobblyPossum

[WobblyPossum]

Nice. I thought you might be able to pull the windlass down and out of the clip but wasn’t sure just from the photo. I’m definitely interested in the wide (1.5”) version since it sounds like they’re otherwise the same size.

[Crazy Dane]

I see this being the "J-frame" of tourniquets, it may not be perfect but if it gets more people to carry one, great.


In my career as a ff/medic, I have used a TQ (CATTs) 4 times. 2-x (separate events) Pedestrian struck by car, lower leg amputation, MVA arm amputation at the elbow, GSW to the thigh. I can say that I have 100% success, I also had a lot of help and a quick trip to the ER. We did not have high hopes for the GSW. By the time LEOs cleared the scene and we got to the patient, he had lost most of his blood.

This brings me to Carry your own! If you are involved in any type of shooting, the medics aren't coming to save you until the Po-Po clears the scene.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Some observations:

1) I've never heard of marking TQs with chem lights. It is not only unnecessary, but from the training and operations I e been exposed to it may also be counterproductive as chem-lights are used in patient areas for other purposes.

2) Manufacturer has a blase attitude towards TQ width; they say to go apply a TQ to a foam roller and measure the imprint, and it'll only be 1" wide. Well, okay, let's take that as fact for the point of the conversation...if a 1.5" strap leaves a 1" imprint, meaning only 1" of compression, then what size imprint is a 1" strap leaving? Is there something different about this construction that would allow it to perform equally well as a 1.5" strap? After all, TQs used to be made with 1" straps and migrated to 1.5" after pretty thorough documentation of both lab testing and field studies.

3) Construction of the TQ needs to be thoroughly tested and vouched for before I'd consider carrying it. Life saving gear is not something you toy around with just to "try the new thing", especially something meant for as acute a situation as a TQ is purposed for.
With all that said, I'm very interested in this. An effective TQ the size of Glock 19 mags is super cool to pull off, if possible.

Hey man, I am the primary designer of the ETQ, so I will answer your questions:

1) I also have never heard of marking TQs with chem lights. It is unnecessary, but we believe it is a value add, and it is optional for those who don't want it, just take it out or break it when you first get it. For civilians, it has three potential benefits: first responders will more quickly/easily find and ID casualties and that a TQ is applied and where if that TQ is glowing. Second, in an emergency, should there be little to no other source of light, the chem light provides enough light to work by and apply the TQ. Third, if you are out in the boonies, it is much more likely for search and rescue to locate you if you are literally emitting light. We see absolutely no downside to the user for this, except for in case of LE/MIL, but that is why we also have a MIL version that has an IR chemlight, providing really good IR light to work by and marking casualties. Again, if you don't want it, just remove it or activate it. Every single decision, including ones that many people would deem unimportant, is weighed by "Would this make it more likely to save a life or not?"

2) I think you misunderstand this, and should watch our launch video on the TQ width. If you apply the 1" ETQ next to a CAT on a foam roller, leave it on long enough to leave a depression, you will not be able to tell which TQ is which on the opposite side of the windlass, where it is just the depression of the band. This is because the CAT uses a 1" band for the compression inside their sleeve, you can literally pull on the windlass and pull it out to check. You can also apply it to your leg, and stick your fingers underneath the sides, because its not a true 1.5" TQ. The reason why CoTCCC recommends 1.5" TQs is in their name: Tactical Combat Casualty Care. Where their focus is, in combat overseas, these patients cannot be quickly upgraded to the next level of care for many hours, often 10-20 hours. It is the conclusion of CoTCCC that the wider a TQ is, the less likely it is to induce tissue damage over PROLONGED use. The ETQ is intended primarily for civilians who can be upgraded to next level of care within an hour or two. One could stop the bleeding and save a life, then 10 minutes to 2 hours later, swap it with a 1.5 inch TQ. The intent of the ETQ is to get people to carry TQs, as a femoral bleed can leave you unconscious in two minutes and dead in three. Can you sprint to your car/backpack and find and then apply your TQ within 1.5 minutes, all while bleeding out? Or if its not you bleeding out, can you sprint back to your family member in that amount of time? I disagree strongly that we have a "blase attitude", we have studied this, thought extremely deeply, and consulted with the experts, including members of CoTCCC. We take this incredibly seriously, and believe strongly that by convincing many people to carry TQs, we will save a lot of lives. If you don't want to use the 1", or you intend to use this in the back country, that is why we have a 1.5", the ETQ-Wide.

3) It is good to be skeptical of new gear and new companies. Time will tell, and we have sent over 100 of them out for tons of people to test them, without any direction from us. Keep in mind that all recommended TQs have saved lives before being recommended by CoTCCC, it is a pre-requisite. The Cat gen 7 saved thousands of lives before being recommended.

And finally, our mission is simply to get people carrying and training with TQs, we could care less what brand you choose, so long as its a good one. Cheers

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

The extra width isn't just about preventing peripheral neuropathy.

1.5" TQs have more effective occlusion rates.

This is true, but our 1" ETQ has never failed to occlude bloodflow in any test, including thunderthighs.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

I like creativity and new ideas. If what we have is all we try, we don't innovate. That said, thoughts.


By design, basically a CAT or TMT.
When folded, looks like hook and loop is exposed for fouling. Can it be folded otherwise?
Windlass is shorter than both SOF and CAT. SOF and CAT have the same length. Length of the SOF and CAT corresponds to the span between the first and fourth finger on an ~average hand, a sweet spot for leverage and dexterity manipulating the windlass. Shorter windlass will be harder for some users to manipulate to full occlusion esp with blood, loss of strength/dexterity/focus.
Chemlites go on patients in special circumstances, not on TQs. Want your TQ seen, get red/orange/lime green. Adds unnecessary process and expense.
QR on the TQ strap is gimmicky but does no harm. On packaging for pre-event use - useful.
I like the 3-step printed instructions.
ETQ Wide > ETQ

I'd throw a few in training kits to see for myself.

Hey, good thoughts, here are some responses:

In our testing, the windlass is only harder for the initial first twist, but overall it is not more difficult to actually occlude blood flow. The time when its difficult to turn a windlass is one handed application, and ours is actually easier, the length doesn't really apply, as one's hand isn't big enough to take advantage of the longer lever of a longer windlass, unless you are grabbing only one end.

Yes, you can fold it/stage it in many different ways, including the same as the CAT. It comes in our preferred staged form, and we have tested every one we can think of. Having carried multiple on my person for a year and a half, I have never had issues with the hook and loop filling with debris. I can see that being a potential issue for duty carry, say with mud or snow, or simply making noise, but that is why we recommend carrying them in certain ways. The way they come is optimal from our perspective, but we are more than open to finding alternate or even better methods.

We are aware that currently chemlights have their specific uses, and they are not found on TQs. That said, we believe it is a value add, and it is optional for those who don't want it, just take it out or break it when you first get it. For civilians, it has three potential benefits: first responders will more quickly/easily find and ID casualties and that a TQ is applied and where if that TQ is glowing. Second, in an emergency, should there be little to no other source of light, the chem light provides enough light to work by and apply the TQ. Third, if you are out in the boonies, it is much more likely for search and rescue to locate you if you are literally emitting light. We see absolutely no downside to the user for this, except for in case of LE/MIL, but that is why we also have a MIL version that has an IR chemlight, providing really good IR light to work by and marking casualties. Again, if you don't want it, just remove it or activate it. Every single decision, including ones that many people would deem unimportant, is weighed by "Would this make it more likely to save a life or not?"

Thanks for your input!

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

The issue of portability has been well solved by SWAT-T.

It works well for hemorrhage control and be used for other purposes such as pressure dressings, wraps, etc.

https://www.swat-t.com/

If you read the studies and dive deep, you will find that what TGS says is absolutely the truth. It has its place, it is not a bad product and I am sure it has saved lives, but there are reasons why CoTCCC reviewed it and does not recommend it.

If they had truly solved the issue of portability while retaining full functionality, I would have never designed the ETQ.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

I see this being the "J-frame" of tourniquets, it may not be perfect but if it gets more people to carry one, great.


In my career as a ff/medic, I have used a TQ (CATTs) 4 times. 2-x (separate events) Pedestrian struck by car, lower leg amputation, MVA arm amputation at the elbow, GSW to the thigh. I can say that I have 100% success, I also had a lot of help and a quick trip to the ER. We did not have high hopes for the GSW. By the time LEOs cleared the scene and we got to the patient, he had lost most of his blood.

This brings me to Carry your own! If you are involved in any type of shooting, the medics aren't coming to save you until the Po-Po clears the scene.

This is exactly the purpose of the ETQ, and our company, Snakestaff Systems. We don't care what brand you choose, we just want to convince as many people as possible to start carrying TQs and training with them. Making it easy and convenient with our own products will help accomplish that goal.

Blood loss is the leading cause of preventable accidental death, tons of people die this way every year, and if we were more prepared, we could be ready to save lives.

[dontshakepandas]

This is exactly the purpose of the ETQ, and our company, Snakestaff Systems. We don't care what brand you choose, we just want to convince as many people as possible to start carrying TQs and training with them. Making it easy and convenient with our own products will help accomplish that goal.

Blood loss is the leading cause of preventable accidental death, tons of people die this way every year, and if we were more prepared, we could be ready to save lives.

Ben,
Thanks for your input in the last few posts. I love to see involvement from companies behind products, especially when it is obvious they aren't just trying to make a buck.

Any chance you could give us a heads up on when you expect to have more in stock?

[Warped Mindless]

Ben,
Thanks for your input in the last few posts. I love to see involvement from companies behind products, especially when it is obvious they aren't just trying to make a buck.

Any chance you could give us a heads up on when you expect to have more in stock?

Friday per IG.

[TAZ]

Ive been seeing these in my YouTube feed and was going to ask if anyone has experience with them.

I love the idea of a compact TQ. No high speed guy, but IMO unless the windlass breaks or can’t be locked, this thing will be better than the nothing 95% of the folks carry. I have 2 CAtS in my range bag and car, but 95% if the time I’m out and about a TQ isnt with me. I’ve recently added a CAT to my Enigma set up and it’s bulky, uncomfortable and tends to catch clothing and print. SOFTW would be easier, but have yet to find a pouch that works with it.

If this can fit into a regular mag pouch, it will make carrying a TQ no brainer easy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joe S]

ben_flux_snakestaff , do you have any testing data, third party or otherwise, you could share with us? Or perhaps testimonials?

I'm sorry if I missed it on the website.

Thanks for taking the time to come here and interact.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Ben,
Thanks for your input in the last few posts. I love to see involvement from companies behind products, especially when it is obvious they aren't just trying to make a buck.

Any chance you could give us a heads up on when you expect to have more in stock?

I think its good to be tapped into the reception, questions people have, and particularly the feedback. And it is helpful for everyone else to be able to communicate directly with those designing the gear. I think it is one of the things that set us apart, we are users ourselves, and we pay attention.

Yep, until we announce otherwise, we are doing weekly restocks, every Friday at 12 PM MDT, and we will just be increasing the quantities as our manufacturers are able to. Hadn't intended to sell out like that, but it is awesome to see so many people want to start carrying TQs, as that is the goal.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

ben_flux_snakestaff , do you have any testing data, third party or otherwise, you could share with us? Or perhaps testimonials?

I'm sorry if I missed it on the website.

Thanks for taking the time to come here and interact.

We don't think it is particularly valuable to share our own data, as it's just not really what people want - as hard as we worked against our bias, we are biased, and it's just not convincing if coming from the company who made the product.

So we are working on getting third party testing done, which is a little difficult, because we can't pay for it and inflict bias that way.

We have sent over 100 out to many different people for as much independent testing as possible, with no instruction from us, so hopefully tests and reviews start popping up. Someone on an FB EDC forum tested them at his clinic on 4 different people, a bunch of times, and it went very well. We have also sent them to a couple members of CoTCCC.

And awesomely, a badass dude here contacted us and is going to do a study, which is exactly what everyone needs and wants. CoTCCC won't even look at a TQ until there is data on it, as they don't do testing themselves, so this study is exciting.

We also have a couple SOF groups throwing them into their live tissue training, so we should get good info from there, but not likely to be publishable, due to the nasty nature of that training.

Testimonials is a great idea - we have a plan to gather real world use data, and I they may count as testimonials: if anyone uses their TQ in a real world setting, we will trade them a new replacement for the story/details. Everyone wins. Buy once, bleed once, or something? ;)

[SouthNarc]

I think its good to be tapped into the reception, questions people have, and particularly the feedback. And it is helpful for everyone else to be able to communicate directly with those designing the gear. I think it is one of the things that set us apart, we are users ourselves, and we pay attention.

Yep, until we announce otherwise, we are doing weekly restocks, every Friday at 12 PM MDT, and we will just be increasing the quantities as our manufacturers are able to. Hadn't intended to sell out like that, but it is awesome to see so many people want to start carrying TQs, as that is the goal.

Ben just to restate what I said on IG, I think you guys did a great job managing some particularly cunty people that got butt-hurt when they didn't hit the button quick enough.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Ben just to restate what I said on IG, I think you guys did a great job managing some particularly cunty people that got butt-hurt when they didn't hit the button quick enough.

Haha, thanks dude. It always sucks when people say stupid shit like "hype beast drop culture" when we had a marketing budget of around $1500 and a hundred times that on dev, and we would love to sell them to as many people as possible - its just super hard to anticipate demand on a brand new product, particularly from a brand new company. The idea of restricting sales is antithetical to our mission to get TQs everywhere and just business in general. But I try and see their point of view when responding, and I think that helps.

[SouthNarc]

Haha, thanks dude. It always sucks when people say stupid shit like "hype beast drop culture" when we had a marketing budget of around $1500 and a hundred times that on dev, and we would love to sell them to as many people as possible - its just super hard to anticipate demand on a brand new product, particularly from a brand new company. The idea of restricting sales is antithetical to our mission to get TQs everywhere and just business in general. But I try and see their point of view when responding, and I think that helps.

Kudos to you sir. You have way more patience than I do.

[ST911]

Hey, good thoughts, here are some responses:

Thank you for the reply and the dialogue.


In our testing, the windlass is only harder for the initial first twist, but overall it is not more difficult to actually occlude blood flow. The time when its difficult to turn a windlass is one handed application, and ours is actually easier, the length doesn't really apply, as one's hand isn't big enough to take advantage of the longer lever of a longer windlass, unless you are grabbing only one end.

In two-handed non-complicated application windlass length isn't impactful. In single-handed complex application one of the struggle points of students is hitting the gate/clip/tri-ring, especially if the windlass has ridden low on the ribbon and/or the student has smaller hands or less strength or dexterity. Your design has two things going on that occur to me... The gate into your retention clip looks comparatively small, and you have less windlass length to leverage to retention. Doesn't make the TQ a no-go, but is an expected training and performance variable.

I also keep in mind that your intent is a minimal footprint, so this variable is likely an acceptable compromise.


Yes, you can fold it/stage it in many different ways, including the same as the CAT. It comes in our preferred staged form, and we have tested every one we can think of. Having carried multiple on my person for a year and a half, I have never had issues with the hook and loop filling with debris. I can see that being a potential issue for duty carry, say with mud or snow, or simply making noise, but that is why we recommend carrying them in certain ways. The way they come is optimal from our perspective, but we are more than open to finding alternate or even better methods.

Thanks.


We are aware that currently chemlights have their specific uses, and they are not found on TQs. That said, we believe it is a value add, and it is optional for those who don't want it, just take it out or break it when you first get it. For civilians, it has three potential benefits: first responders will more quickly/easily find and ID casualties and that a TQ is applied and where if that TQ is glowing. Second, in an emergency, should there be little to no other source of light, the chem light provides enough light to work by and apply the TQ. Third, if you are out in the boonies, it is much more likely for search and rescue to locate you if you are literally emitting light. We see absolutely no downside to the user for this, except for in case of LE/MIL, but that is why we also have a MIL version that has an IR chemlight, providing really good IR light to work by and marking casualties. Again, if you don't want it, just remove it or activate it. Every single decision, including ones that many people would deem unimportant, is weighed by "Would this make it more likely to save a life or not?"

I don't think this has the effect you believe, but I would expect no harm.


Thanks for your input!

Likewise.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Thank you for the reply and the dialogue.

In two-handed non-complicated application windlass length isn't impactful. In single-handed complex application one of the struggle points of students is hitting the gate/clip/tri-ring, especially if the windlass has ridden low on the ribbon and/or the student has smaller hands or less strength or dexterity. Your design has two things going on that occur to me... The gate into your retention clip looks comparatively small, and you have less windlass length to leverage to retention. Doesn't make the TQ a no-go, but is an expected training and performance variable.

I also keep in mind that your intent is a minimal footprint, so this variable is likely an acceptable compromise.



Right back at you, particularly because you seem to be quite knowledgeable, your insight is valuable.

Yes, this is our experience as well. We did several things to mitigate these issues/difficulty, and overall, in our testing, it seems to be of comparable ease of use. But absolutely, even though it is generally the same idea, what you mention are certainly variables which will affect training/performance. It was a difficult task trying to meet the usability of the CAT while reducing the size to a third, I think we have done it, but third party testing/time will tell.

I think even if it ends up being slightly more difficult to apply, it is worth the trade off to have it on your person. We liken it to a CC pistol, and it seems like you are keeping this in mind.

Please, if you have more thoughts, keep them coming. Thanks

[TGS]

2) I think you misunderstand this, and should watch our launch video on the TQ width.

So even after PMing with ST911, I have to admit that I indeed had to watch your video to see what you're talking about. I've been an ardent adopter of the TacMed SOF-T products and have put about a thousand into service between my current job (Fed LEO with secondary med responsibilities) and my previous job (EMS, up to a division chief). So, my brain went to the SOF-TW which has a simple 1.5" strap.

Then, I was thinking that you were talking about the thinner strap that attaches immediately at the windlass on the CAT, which is indeed 1" but compresses on a 1.5" piece of plastic. I watched the video and see what you're talking about now. So, consider my blase comment retracted, as the video explained it better.

As for the rest of it, I think I have a pretty good understanding on the reason for the 1.5" width. Tourniquet width is directly correlated not just to decreased neuropathy/palsy (which in almost all cases is temporary anyways), but also effectiveness. This is why when one tourniquet is ineffective, the guidance is to place a second immediately above but adjacent to the first TQ, not further up the leg...this being particularly important when applying TQs over Hunter's canal. The drive towards 1.5" width TQs originates from the landmark 2006 USAISR study released in the February 2008 issue of The Journal of Trauma Injury, Infection and Critical Care, Practical Use of Emergency Tourniquets to Stop Bleeding in Major Limb Trauma.

With all that said, I appreciate your engagement and appreciate the availability of a better mousetrap. I can easily carry 2 SOF-TWs on my person concealed, and routinely do, though I usually call it good when not working with just my ankle IFAK which includes 1 SOF-TW. I admit that the average person probably isn't putting in the same amount of effort, and this could be a good addition to the market. I have been extremely suspect of recent medical device introductions oriented towards concealed carry which are rabbits foot talismans that give people a false sense of security and utterly incapable of performing what they're purposed for (like hemostatic gauze that is only a few inches in length), which has driven a big part of my response here.

[03RN]

(like hemostatic gauze that is only a few inches in length), which has driven a big part of my response here.

Im glad I'm not the only person who is annoyed with those.

[TGS]

Im glad I'm not the only person who is annoyed with those.

Insert joke about full-size men needing more than a few inches to get the job done.

I don't want to steal blues pun thunder, though.

[blues]

Insert joke about full-size men needing more than a few inches to get the job done.

I don't want to steal blues pun thunder, though.



Feel free. I freely abdicate my position and any rights thereof.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

So even after PMing with ST911, I have to admit that I indeed had to watch your video to see what you're talking about. I've been an ardent adopter of the TacMed SOF-T products and have put about a thousand into service between my current job (Fed LEO with secondary med responsibilities) and my previous job (EMS, up to a division chief). So, my brain went to the SOF-TW which has a simple 1.5" strap.

Then, I was thinking that you were talking about the thinner strap that attaches immediately at the windlass on the CAT, which is indeed 1" but compresses on a 1.5" piece of plastic. I watched the video and see what you're talking about now. So, consider my blase comment retracted, as the video explained it better.

As for the rest of it, I think I have a pretty good understanding on the reason for the 1.5" width. Tourniquet width is directly correlated not just to decreased neuropathy/palsy (which in almost all cases is temporary anyways), but also effectiveness. This is why when one tourniquet is ineffective, the guidance is to place a second immediately above but adjacent to the first TQ, not further up the leg...this being particularly important when applying TQs over Hunter's canal. The drive towards 1.5" width TQs originates from the landmark 2006 USAISR study released in the February 2008 issue of The Journal of Trauma Injury, Infection and Critical Care, Practical Use of Emergency Tourniquets to Stop Bleeding in Major Limb Trauma.

With all that said, I appreciate your engagement and appreciate the availability of a better mousetrap. I can easily carry 2 SOF-TWs on my person concealed, and routinely do, though I usually call it good when not working with just my ankle IFAK which includes 1 SOF-TW. I admit that the average person probably isn't putting in the same amount of effort, and this could be a good addition to the market. I have been extremely suspect of recent medical device introductions oriented towards concealed carry which are rabbits foot talismans that give people a false sense of security and utterly incapable of performing what they're purposed for (like hemostatic gauze that is only a few inches in length), which has driven a big part of my response here.

Thanks, I appreciate the retraction.

Good on you for carrying TQs/ifak, this is what we hope to accomplish, whatever brand people choose. The SOF-TW is a great option, has saved many lives and is currently the go-to for most if not all the SOF groups we work with. I don't personally love it, certain aspects do not satisfy me, but I do love the metal windlass and true 1.5" width, and while our options are smaller, I really appreciate how much smaller the SOF-TW is compared to the rest of the good TQs.

I wasn't aware where the 1.5" originated, so thanks for that, more reading to do. What you say does correspond with everything that I know, a wider tourniquet requires less pressure to function and thus is more likely to occlude blood flow. Based on all of our testing, the original 1" SOF-T, and the CAT being somewhat in between a true 1.5" and 1" TQ, we feel confident in the ETQ, but if studies or real world use show it to be ineffective, we will discontinue it and only sell the ETQ-Wide.

I talked with Andrew Fisher (Trauma Daddy) about the SOF-T, because I was concerned that the reason it failed their eval was because of the 1" width, but he assured me it was not the width, but design issues which were fixed with the SOF-TW.

I also appreciate your skepticism, I often feel that there is not enough of it with life-saving gear. I am one of the most skeptical people I know, and am only satisfied with something (including my own ideas) after testing it.

Our next product is an EDC ifak, and building the components, we moronically purchased the few inches of hemostatic gauze, not realizing until we got it that it was useless. I hate companies that just want to make money, that prioritize that goal over creating good products, and use manipulation to enrich themselves. That is not true capitalism. I will only ever make stuff that I personally want and would use, and entrust my own life to. I think that if we make good products, they will eventually be recognized as such. Like you, I carry that ifak prototype with an ETQ in it and another in my boot pocket. I have another ifak and ETQ-Wides in my haley flatpack.

Thanks for your thoughts, and please keep them coming as you have them. Cheers

[Paul Blackburn]

When will these be available?

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

When will these be available?

Every Friday at 12 PM MDT, we will do a restock, until we can catch up with demand and keep them in stock. The ETQ sold out in 2 minutes, and the ETQ-Wide sold out in 40 minutes, so unfortunately, its likely to be a struggle to get them for the next couple months. We are increasing production as quickly as we can maintain quality (it is a life saving device).

[RevolverRob]

Three things:

1) I appreciate the dedicated back and forth and great decorum of everyone here - it is always educational. This has been a great reflection of P-F. Thanks for participating ben_flux_snakestaff TGS ST911 03RN

2) Color me interested overall. I have half a dozen TQs around here and ALL of them sit in bags or in vehicles, not on my person. Generally, my bag is only a few feet away if that, but I can't guarantee it. The only TQ I find I regularly might keep on my person are SOF-T Gen3s in the narrower 1" configuration, flat folded and with the set screw on the clamp removed. These are less than ideal, but are small enough in foot print I find them relatively unobtrusive and easier to carry.

3) I'll be looking to pick up both a standard and a wide for personal evaluation. I might have already talked to my colleague at F.A.R.T about designing a pocket carrier/holster for these.

[stomridertx]

I'm sure more than one of us has had the idea of an EDC oriented smaller TQ floating in our head and I'm ecstatic someone has taken the ball and ran with it. I just wanted to remind everyone that wants to evaluate it that tourniquets are an approved Health Savings Account expense if you have one.

[Paul Blackburn]

If you flat fold the SOF Tourniquet its the same size as G19 mag.


https://youtu.be/RKMBaGvghWE

[Paul Blackburn]

97129

[eaglefrq]

I am very interested in this TQ.

I am a member of a cycling group and we were on a ride one day when we came upon a head on collision about 3 minutes after it happened. One lady passed away even though we did CPR. The other person involved sustained a serious leg injury and one of our members used their jersey to create a makeshift TQ. We were on a well traveled road, but out in the sticks so it took about **10-15 minutes** after the accident before the first deputy arrived on scene and another **5 minutes** before the fire department arrived on scene. One of the responding deputies had a TQ we were able to use on the one driver. Luckily, the driver with the injured leg survived, but sustained permanent disabilities due to the force of the impact.

All of us were completely unprepared to encounter an accident scene like we did. After the accident, I purchased some compact, single use CPR shields and a TQ (that has been folded so it's more compact) that I carry in a pouch when we go on longer/more remote rides. However, as more time has passed I find that I am grabbing the TQ/CPR shields less and less since it is added bulk.

** The times are rough, but probably pretty close. I honestly couldn't tell you with the chaos that was happening at the time.

[ST911]

Pardon the drift.


I am a member of a cycling group and we were on a ride one day when we came upon a head on collision about 3 minutes after it happened. One lady passed away even though we did CPR.

Good on you for helping. If it's any consolation, outcomes of trauma-induced arrest are poor.


The other person involved sustained a serious leg injury and one of our members used their jersey to create a makeshift TQ.

At a minimum, you slowed the process and bought time. Sometimes, that's enough.


We were on a well traveled road, but out in the sticks so it took about **10-15 minutes** after the accident before the first deputy arrived on scene and another **5 minutes** before the fire department arrived on scene.

For some, that's an awfully good response time. <chuckling in rural>


All of us were completely unprepared to encounter an accident scene like we did.

You were prepared with a willingness to accept what is happening and go to work. Step 1.


After the accident, I purchased some compact, single use CPR shields and a TQ (that has been folded so it's more compact) that I carry in a pouch when we go on longer/more remote rides. However, as more time has passed I find that I am grabbing the TQ/CPR shields since it is added bulk.

If you have an organized group that meets. You're likely already familiar with common cycling injuries like road rash. Take a day off from your ride and bring in a CPR and STB class. You'll also likely to see fractures and sprains in wrists, ankles, tib/fib, etc. Find a sports-med type to talk about those injuries.

You can throw some handy stuff in a gallon ziplock, compress it, and tape it to some part of the bike or a bladder/pack you wear.

[eaglefrq]

Pardon the drift.



Good on you for helping. If it's any consolation, outcomes of trauma-induced arrest are poor.



At a minimum, you slowed the process and bought time. Sometimes, that's enough.



For some, that's an awfully good response time. <chuckling in rural>



You were prepared with a willingness to accept what is happening and go to work. Step 1.



If you have an organized group that meets. You're likely already familiar with common cycling injuries like road rash. Take a day off from your ride and bring in a CPR and STB class. You'll also likely to see fractures and sprains in wrists, ankles, tib/fib, etc. Find a sports-med type to talk about those injuries.

You can throw some handy stuff in a gallon ziplock, compress it, and tape it to some part of the bike or a bladder/pack you wear.

That is a good idea about setting up a class, unfortunately I am all to familiar with the common cycling injuries (don't ask me how I know) LOL.

[Warped Mindless]

97139
9714097140

Much flatter than a flat folded sof TQ. The one above is the 1.5 inch. You can’t even tell it’s in my front pocket of my jeans even when wearing my tighter jeans.

[Warped Mindless]

97139
9714097140
97141
Much flatter than a flat folded sof TQ. The one above is the 1.5 inch. You can’t even tell it’s in my front pocket of my jeans even when wearing my tighter jeans.

If you unfold it and fold it so that it’s longer, it’s even flatter than the sof TQ even though it’s apex the same length. Great little TQ size wise.

[Totem Polar]

I’m in, as soon as I can beat the madding crowd to the button punch. Missed this time around. #nocuntishbehavior

[CSW]

Every Friday at 12 PM MDT, we will do a restock, until we can catch up with demand and keep them in stock. The ETQ sold out in 2 minutes, and the ETQ-Wide sold out in 40 minutes, so unfortunately, its likely to be a struggle to get them for the next couple months. We are increasing production as quickly as we can maintain quality (it is a life saving device).

ben_flux_snakestaff

Any chance of pre-ordering?

Looks like a pretty great product.

[Totem Polar]

ben_flux_snakestaff

Any chance of pre-ordering?

Looks like a pretty great product.

Group buy! P-F supporting business!

C’mon, Ben, join the cult…
;)

[CSW]

Group buy! P-F supporting business!

C’mon, Ben, join the cult…
;)


Even better idea.

[Risto]

Group buy! P-F supporting business!

C’mon, Ben, join the cult…
;)

I’m in….

[dontshakepandas]

Group buy! P-F supporting business!

C’mon, Ben, join the cult…
;)

In orange?

[csheehy]

I'd be down for a couple...

CJS

[oss117]

I would take a couple on a group buy as well.

[WobblyPossum]

ben_flux_snakestaff is a group buy something you guys would be able to do? I’m guessing not at this time with how fast the tourniquets sell out right now, but maybe a little ways down the road?

[Paul Blackburn]

I'm willing to go in on the group buy.

[DMCutter]

I was standing by at my computer a few minutes early last Friday at restock time. I had one of each in my cart and before I could check out the EDC was sold out. I did get 2 of the 1.5, though.. I'd be down for the group buy. Great idea to have in the jersey pocket.

[RoyGBiv]

I'd be in on a group buy.....

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Group buy! P-F supporting business!

C’mon, Ben, join the cult…
;)

As far as pre-orders go, we feel that it would be dishonorable and bad business to take people's money without knowing when we can fulfill the orders. So until our mfg is dialed, we won't.

And as to the group buy - that would be awesome, I would love to do that for you guys, but I doubt my business partner who is running the company would allow me to do so for a while. We aren't even doing distributors or dealers or anything of the sort until we get production caught up. That said, I will bring it up and try, I know its a ridiculous mad scramble to try and get an ETQ right now.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

ben_flux_snakestaff is a group buy something you guys would be able to do? I’m guessing not at this time with how fast the tourniquets sell out right now, but maybe a little ways down the road?

Yep, see my above comment. I will ask, but as you say, not likely for a while.

[guymontag]

Restocked for those interested!

ETA: At least the wides…

[RevolverRob]

Restocked for those interested!

ETA: At least the wides…

Gone 9 minutes later.

[krax]

I managed to get two of the wide models; One to test and abuse, and one to carry if I'm happy with the result of the testing. I'm excited to see it in person.

[Totem Polar]

That said, I will bring it up and try, I know its a ridiculous mad scramble to try and get an ETQ right now.

Roger that, boss. You *absolutely* need to take care of business first. When you have both the output and the brainspace to do a dump onto a pre-selected audience, you know where to find us for a sure thing. Just saying.

[GearFondler]

Got one of the small ones and it already shipped... Very cool.

[guymontag]

Got one of the small ones and it already shipped... Very cool.

Yup they were quick to sell out but they are quick to ship too - mine should be delivered Monday.

Kudos to Snake Staff.

[vandal]

I'm appreciating the reduced weight of the ETQ vs a SOF-T on my ankle. And maybe my ankle kit will pass through a metal detector now without the SOF-T metal windlass? Not sure if the foil wraps (QuickClot, chest seal) would still ping the machine.

[Paul Blackburn]

The the Friday restock/availability occurs at 1:00 eastern time?

[Warped Mindless]

The the Friday restock/availability occurs at 1:00 eastern time?

2pm EST

[DMCutter]

Just got my 2 wide TQs in today's mail. Holy shit, those things are small. I haven't done a side by side comparo yet but they can't be appreciably bigger than a USPc 9 mag and will fit in a cargo pocket completely unnoticed. I'm looking forward to evals from guys who are actually expert in such things...

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Roger that, boss. You *absolutely* need to take care of business first. When you have both the output and the brainspace to do a dump onto a pre-selected audience, you know where to find us for a sure thing. Just saying.

Thanks man. They said what I thought they would, "yeah, but only once we can, so not for a long time".

But for sure, I will remember, and if I don't, hopefully one of you will remind me, haha!

[msstate56]

I’d love to give a review, but the one I ordered on the 11th still hasn’t arrived.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

I’d love to give a review, but the one I ordered on the 11th still hasn’t arrived.

Whaaat? Sorry dude, that is not good, they should get to you within days. Can you please get me your order number? Or email about it to: support@snakestaffsystems.com

[GearFondler]

So yeah, it's dummy small.
And I was able to apply it to my arm as easily as a CAT with the only exception being that the windlass can be a little tricky to insert past the snap hook... You may have to fiddle just a bit to make sure it fully clears the latch.

The glow stick insert is also very susceptible to breakage. I inadvertently snapped mine while inserting the TQ into the elastic storage sleeve they sell. Not a big loss as I don't really see the need for it in the first place, and it's easily replaced if I so desire. On my second one I removed the tube before insertion into the sleeve then reinstalled it afterwards. It remains to be seen if back pocket carry will snap the tube in the future.
Overall, I am initially very impressed.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221123/865acc64efd71c84e6d8530ced20ba57.jpg

[theJanitor]

did anyone get one on today's drop? I was completing checkout 1.5 minutes after it was released and it sold out

[DMCutter]

Unfuckingbelievable. I was sitting at my computer on the web site, hit buy it now at exactly 1400 EST, had 2 in the cart, and by the time I finished entering my data and hit purchase they were sold out. That's the second time that's happened to me. The Ws were gone about a minute later. Are people using bots to buy these in bulk or what? Frustrating process, to say the least.

[Up1911Fan]

did anyone get one on today's drop? I was completing checkout 1.5 minutes after it was released and it sold out
I got 4 of the Wides in today's drop.

[luckyman]

I got 1 regular and 1 wide. Using Apple Pay cuts almost a minute off the process because I don’t have to enter any credit card or address info.

[vandal]

Got two

[guymontag]

Unfuckingbelievable. I was sitting at my computer on the web site, hit buy it now at exactly 1400 EST, had 2 in the cart, and by the time I finished entering my data and hit purchase they were sold out. That's the second time that's happened to me. The Ws were gone about a minute later. Are people using bots to buy these in bulk or what? Frustrating process, to say the least.

Agree with luckyman and his fitting username - Applepay is the answer.

[WDR]

Unfuckingbelievable. I was sitting at my computer on the web site, hit buy it now at exactly 1400 EST, had 2 in the cart, and by the time I finished entering my data and hit purchase they were sold out. That's the second time that's happened to me. The Ws were gone about a minute later. Are people using bots to buy these in bulk or what? Frustrating process, to say the least.

Glad I was busy and didn't try... Hopefully they can increase production. These guys are sorta local to me, so I'd like to support them.

[GearFondler]

This reminds me of the release of the Enigma and there really isn't a good answer from a manufacturer standpoint... It sucks for everyone for a while.

[theJanitor]

I got 1 regular and 1 wide. Using Apple Pay cuts almost a minute off the process because I don’t have to enter any credit card or address info.

oh. I hadn't thought about ordering from a mobile device. I was on a desktop

[Up1911Fan]

Whaaat? Sorry dude, that is not good, they should get to you within days. Can you please get me your order number? Or email about it to: support@snakestaffsystems.com

Have the 2nd's drop shipped? I got a tracking number but all it says is a label was created.

[theJanitor]

At this point I'd rather be able to buy them on backorder, versus fighting for product drops, ben_flux_snakestaff

[Up1911Fan]

Has anyone found any type of soft pouch/sleeve that will fit the Wide version?

[Paul Blackburn]

Is the 2 minute window of availability because of the non existent manufacturing capacity in the U.S.?

Or not enough funds upfront for a large enough order to meet demand?

[Warped Mindless]

Is the 2 minute window of availability because of the non existent manufacturing capacity in the U.S.?

Or not enough funds upfront for a large enough order to meet demand?

On IG they said they didn’t anticipate this level of demand and that now they don’t want to ramp up to fast because it would effect quality control and they would rather make less money than sacrifice quality. Noble actually.

So it seems they are using funds to ramp things up slowly while making sure the manufacturer can handle the demand without harming the integrity of the product.

[DMCutter]

Has anyone found any type of soft pouch/sleeve that will fit the Wide version?

Tactical Tailor makes a molle compass/strobe pouch that fits a wide TQ and a Quickclot, costs all of $11.

[Up1911Fan]

Tactical Tailor makes a molle compass/strobe pouch that fits a wide TQ and a Quickclot, costs all of $11.

Thanks, but not at all what i'm looking for. I pocket carry the TQ, just looking for a sleeve like pouch to protect both the TQ and my pants from wear. The make one for the regular, just not the wide.

[DMCutter]

I just keep mine in its original plastic bag. I cut the top open, ran the bar code tab out halfway and bent it over, and covered the top of the bag with duct tape so the tab is sort of a quick release/pull tab. I've been carrying it that way for a few weeks in a side pocket and it's held up with no issues. The pouch works on a belt or range bag.

[jd950]

On IG they said they didn’t anticipate this level of demand and that now they don’t want to ramp up to fast because it would effect quality control and they would rather make less money than sacrifice quality. Noble actually.

So it seems they are using funds to ramp things up slowly while making sure the manufacturer can handle the demand without harming the integrity of the product.

If that is true, I applaud their sentiment, but after two tries on two diff dates (I don't have nor want apple pay), I have abandoned the idea, at least for now. After I sent a grumpy email on 12-2 they said they anticipated enough stock not to have the problem on the 16th. Yeah, well, no. I see they no longer even specify a "drop" date for their next event.

I can carry my SOF easily enough and it is time-tested. Might look into this again if they can ever produce enough not have clusterfuck marketing. Not entirely happy with their website privacy policy either.

[TGS]

Might look into this again if they can ever produce enough not have clusterfuck marketing.

It's not a clusterfuck. It's FOMO marketing.

It's a feature, not a bug.

:)

[Warped Mindless]

Been carrying the 1.5” version “flat folded” in my pocket every day, for up to 16 hours a day, for over a month now. Still holding up strong which I was worried about.

I know its a pain in the ass to try and get something that sells out in under a minute but its worth trying. I’d suggest forgoing the 1” because frankly I dont trust a 1” anyways and just try to buy the wider version. It takes that version a little longer to sell out.

Flat fold it, throw it in your front pocket, and call it a day.

Buy two and train with one.

[jd950]

Been carrying the 1.5” version “flat folded” in my pocket every day, for up to 16 hours a day, for over a month now. Still holding up strong which I was worried about.

I know its a pain in the ass to try and get something that sells out in under a minute but its worth trying.

Not so sure. It's not like I don't have others, and a flat-folded SOF is pretty compact. I was going to buy a couple to try and a couple for a friend in another agency who wanted to check them out, but I am not going to again play the "add them to the cart and check out fast before they are gone" thing. I am now wondering if, as has been suggested, this is just a marketing strategy. As I said previously, their privacy and marketing disclosures are not appealing either.

99180


If this is just a marketing ploy, then their claims about the reasons for the supply issues are false. If so, that may say something about the product itself and other claims for it. Note that I am not saying this is so. I really don't know what the deal is, except I am not going to participate. I hope this works out and is a good product, and if so, and they run a regular online business selling stock, taking orders, etc., then I may be a customer.

[Paul Blackburn]

Says a lot about the state of manufacturing here. The fact that there is literally nowhere you can go to have a product produced to a QC standard in an amount that keeps up with demand.

[jd950]

Says a lot about the state of manufacturing here. The fact that there is literally nowhere you can go to have a product produced to a QC standard in an amount that keeps up with demand.

Well, these guys would probably sell you as many USA-made TQs as you would want to buy and generally speaking, I think people are happy with their QC standards:

https://softourniquet.com/

https://www.narescue.com/combat-application-tourniquet-c-a-t.html

I am beginning to feel like I am picking on the Snake guys and that is not my intention, so I am done. Hopefully, things will work out and the product will prove vlauable, as the concept is appealing.

[Warped Mindless]

Says a lot about the state of manufacturing here. The fact that there is literally nowhere you can go to have a product produced to a QC standard in an amount that keeps up with demand.

Its not quite that simple.

You have to have the funds needed to scale up. A newer company will need to pull funds from their current sales to scale up which means they can only scale up a little at a time unless they take on outside funding which many businesses dont want to do.

Then you have to account for the time it takes to build/buy/instal new equipment and hire and train the extra people needed to work all of the equipment/machines, etc.

Takes time for a new company that is facing serious demand.

[Paul Blackburn]

Its not quite that simple.

You have to have the funds needed to scale up. A newer company will need to pull funds from their current sales to scale up which means they can only scale up a little at a time unless they take on outside funding which many businesses dont want to do.

Then you have to account for the time it takes to build/buy/instal new equipment and hire and train the extra people needed to work all of the equipment/machines, etc.

Takes time for a new company that is facing serious demand.

Are they actually making them themselves or using a existing vender?

[Warped Mindless]

Are they actually making them themselves or using a existing vender?

I believe outsourced to an existing vendor but I’m not entirely sure.

Even then, the vendor, when taking on new business, will often have to go through much of the same process unless they were not at full production capacity in the first place.

[RoyGBiv]

Got a re-stock email this morning for Noon Mountain time... Was able to place an order just now...

https://www.snakestaffsystems.com/buy-now

[BillSWPA]

Wow that was fast. Went to place and order and they are already sold out.

[RoyGBiv]

Wow that was fast. Went to place and order and they are already sold out.

Damn... Their email said they were restocking 4x their previous largest run....

Sold that out in less than 15 minutes.

I'd like to have that much demand on my business!!



We’ll be restocking the ETQ and ETQ Wide at 12PM MST today.
.
This restock will be roughly 4x our previous largest and with our new manufacturer now online we will be consistently producing 5x what our original capacity was.
.
Please spread the word to family and friends about the importance of carrying a tourniquet and knowing how to use one.
.
https://www.snakestaffsystems.com/buy-nowFollow us on IG at @snakestaffsystems

[RevolverRob]

I was able to get a couple one for me and one for Flamingo for evaluation and possibly pouch building purposes. But really I just got lucky because I happened to look up at 12:02MST and remembered.

[RevolverRob]

It's pretty cool overall. Initial first impressions besides, "Dang that's small" is that removing the glow stick assembly entirely would shrink it even a bit more.

I've got a couple of ideas for a pouch. But have to think about something that doesn't add unnecessary bulk, given the size of this thing.

100675

[DMCutter]

100791100792
Blue Force Gear Ten Speed mag pouch. These also work well with 1" diameter flashlights.

[Up1911Fan]

100791100792
Blue Force Gear Ten Speed mag pouch. These also work well with 1" diameter flashlights.

Is that the regular or the wide TQ?

[DMCutter]

That's the regular EDC.

[That Guy]

I ran into some negative comments on these tourniquets. My apologies if these videos have been posted earlier:


https://youtu.be/0atVcmWX0sc
(Shorter, about a five minute version.)


https://youtu.be/TvVIgOxKGIE
(Longer, over ten minutes.)

Looking at the comments, it seems this reviewers experience with this tourniquets is atypical. Still, I thought it would be good for people to know about.

[GOTURBACK]

I have just recieved my snakestaff etq wide and upon inspection I have detected a serious flaw in there design I will describe it below, on a normal cat tq the 1" internal constricting band attached to the windlass runs the entire length of the tq for allowing for unrestricted compression/tightening, on the ss etq wide the constricting band is only 5" long in it's entirety which is the fixed limit of it's constriction ability this is a serious shortcoming, I will not carry it after determining this.

100826

[RevolverRob]

I have just recieved my snakestaff etq wide and upon inspection I have detected a serious flaw in there design I will describe it below, on a normal cat tq the 1" internal constricting band attached to the windlass runs the entire length of the tq for allowing for unrestricted compression/tightening, on the ss etq wide the constricting band is only 5" long in it's entirety which is the fixed limit of it's constriction ability this is a serious shortcoming, I will not carry it after determining this.

100826

Interesting observation here and worth discussion I think - given that you should pull the tq very tight prior to cranking on the windlass, is the 5" length sufficient for compression? Obviously, more is better, because real world variables. But if I throw this on someone's leg and pull hard on that strap to secure it and crank, am I going to run out of cranking before I occlude blood flow?

TGS ben_flux_snakestaff

I think we have to bear in mind that the EDC TQ and TQ Wide are meant to be very compact and carried basically everywhere on a person. The compromise is that it may not be as effective as a CAT or SOFFT-W at occluding blood flow - we should all know that going in, because it is narrower in width and smaller in overall footprint. That's a compromise, but is it an effective compromise?

If you're carrying a TQ in a bag (like I do most days) there is no reason to not have a CAT or SOFFT-W (like I do in the bag sitting right next to me right now). But when I am sans bag, things are more compromised overall. I'm also not hardcore enough to wear an ankle FAK everywhere like some folks.

Of more concern and interest to me are the videos posted by That Guy with respect to the clip and overall molded structure of the TQ bending when the TQ is turned tight and then not being able to secure the windlass. I'd definitely like some comments and discussion of this as well.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

I have just recieved my snakestaff etq wide and upon inspection I have detected a serious flaw in there design I will describe it below, on a normal cat tq the 1" internal constricting band attached to the windlass runs the entire length of the tq for allowing for unrestricted compression/tightening, on the ss etq wide the constricting band is only 5" long in it's entirety which is the fixed limit of it's constriction ability this is a serious shortcoming, I will not carry it after determining this.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100826[/ATT ACH]

Serious flaw eh? How so? The CAT has "unrestricted compression/tightening"? Have you tested this? Because if you do, you will find that you are not correct in both of your assertions.

First, every single TQ with a mechanical tightening device (typically a windlass, like that of the CAT and ETQ) out there has a limit on how tight that mechanical device can go.

Take your CAT, and put it on your largest limb, and keep twisting that windlass until you can't. What happened? Now do the same thing and put it on a foam roller, or similar semi compressible limb substitute. What happened in this test?

I have done all of this, many times, and I can tell you exactly what happens to the CAT and ETQ. The CATs constricting band, after a varying number of rotations, will twist and bunch up to the point that it will not be able to further constrict and/or lock into the C clip to be retained. The ETQ will have a very similar result.

Watch Andrew Fishers (one of the CoTCCC members) live video on his instagram (TraumaDaddy) he did on the ETQ, he would have brought this up if it were an issue.

We are working with NAR on a collaborative product - they congratulated us on what we are doing. They would not be working with us if they were not confident in our product.

It is good to critically evaluate gear (everything, really), but it is much better to test your assumptions.

Cheers

[GOTURBACK]

Serious flaw eh? How so? The CAT has "unrestricted compression/tightening"? Have you tested this? Because if you do, you will find that you are not correct in both of your assertions

First, every single TQ with a mechanical tightening device (typically a windlass, like that of the CAT and ETQ) out there has a limit on how tight that mechanical device can go.

Take your CAT, and put it on your largest limb, and keep twisting that windlass until you can't. What happened? Now do the same thing and put it on a foam roller, or similar semi compressible limb substitute. What happened in this test?

I have done all of this, many times, and I can tell you exactly what happens to the CAT and ETQ. The CATs constricting band, after a varying number of rotations, will twist and bunch up to the point that it will not be able to further constrict and/or lock into the C clip to be retained. The ETQ will have a very similar result.

Watch Andrew Fishers (one of the CoTCCC members) live video on his instagram (TraumaDaddy) he did on the ETQ, he would have brought this up if it were an issue.

We are working with NAR on a collaborative product - they congratulated us on what we are doing. They would not be working with us if they were not confident in our product.

It is good to critically evaluate gear (everything, really), but it is much better to test your assumptions.

Cheers
Hi Ben,
After posting that review, I determined that I had possibly overstepped my lane, and was not fair to you or snakestaff. I wanted to edit my post for a more reasonable opinion but was unable to. There were things I noticed that I was concerned with. I hope for more discussion t&e and the continued evolution of your products.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Interesting observation here and worth discussion I think - given that you should pull the tq very tight prior to cranking on the windlass, is the 5" length sufficient for compression? Obviously, more is better, because real world variables. But if I throw this on someone's leg and pull hard on that strap to secure it and crank, am I going to run out of cranking before I occlude blood flow?

TGS ben_flux_snakestaff

I think we have to bear in mind that the EDC TQ and TQ Wide are meant to be very compact and carried basically everywhere on a person. The compromise is that it may not be as effective as a CAT or SOFFT-W at occluding blood flow - we should all know that going in, because it is narrower in width and smaller in overall footprint. That's a compromise, but is it an effective compromise?

If you're carrying a TQ in a bag (like I do most days) there is no reason to not have a CAT or SOFFT-W (like I do in the bag sitting right next to me right now). But when I am sans bag, things are more compromised overall. I'm also not hardcore enough to wear an ankle FAK everywhere like some folks.

Of more concern and interest to me are the videos posted by That Guy with respect to the clip and overall molded structure of the TQ bending when the TQ is turned tight and then not being able to secure the windlass. I'd definitely like some comments and discussion of this as well.

As far as the Refuge Medical video goes - I do not believe he was trying to do a hit piece, but he did absolutely misuse the product. Andrew Fisher/Trauma Daddy has reviewed the video and agreed. His comment should be able to be found on the video, I think he responded to one of my comments there.

It took me over a hundred applications to replicate his issue, and I was trying very hard every time. This occupied me for a week straight around Thanksgiving when the video came out, as I took it very seriously.

I was about to give up, when it finally happened! After tons and tons of trying and investigating, I caused the failure, and then found the cause of the failure.

On the ETQ wide, if you do not initially pull the strap at least moderately tight, and the TQ is loose when you begin to twist the windlass, it can cause this failure. This will make ANY TQ fail, just ask Andrew Fisher, or watch his instagram live on the ETQ, where he talks about this regarding other TQs.

The second way of making it fail is after using it multiple times, if you do not reset the hook and loop near the windlass (meaning flatten it out from its used, twisted/folded state), you can cause this failure. This took me many, many applications to make happen, and the tighter you pull the strap, the less likely this will ever be an issue.

So, use it right, just like any other TQ, and reset it after practicing with it, and it will work every single time.

I challenge anyone to reproduce this issue on the first application, or on an ETQ with a SHOWN reset, as it comes from the factory, with PROPERLY tightening the strap. I will reward you, as lives depend on this item.

We are making rolling tweaks to decrease the likelihood of this ever happening, but because it can only happen when misused, or used and not reset (also misuse), this is not a real cause for concern. And finally, this cannot happen on the 1" ETQ.

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Hi Ben,
After posting that review, I determined that I had possibly overstepped my lane, and was not fair to you or snakestaff. I wanted to edit my post for a more reasonable opinion but was unable to. There were things I noticed that I was concerned with. I hope for more discussion t&e and the continued evolution of your products.

Dude, no worries at all. Hard to convey tone/emotion via text. Evaluation and discussion is great! As well as continued evolution. If there were a major flaw, we would send fixed replacements to everyone who had purchased them, and ask people to mark and designate the older ones as trainers.

We will continue to improve it where ever we can, and even if some of the critiques are not valid, some will be, and will help us perfect the device.

Thanks brother!

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

I don't know if that everyone tag will work or if it is allowed, mods, please delete if not kosher.

I am sorry I fell behind on this thread, it has been insane. Today is insanely busy as well, but because you guys were awesome enough to tag me, I have now caught up on the comments.

As an update/general response:

We are finally back up and running, we have set up a new, very high quality manufacturer. Costs went up, but that is absolutely worth it. We are switching to a better hook and loop that will fray less with time (although the fraying never caused an issue, I always carry torture test models, and continue to test them).

We are making rolling tweaks to continuously improve the product in any way we can. We will never stop, nothing is perfect. We have yet to find any serious issue though, and it has now been tested by many SOF groups, as well as LE and civilians.

We QC the TQs and package them, and developed them ourselves, but we do not have the infrastructure to make them, they are made by a high end sew shop in the industry in the west.

As far as not selling product and thus not bringing in money as a "marketing strategy" goes - well, no offense, but that is an absolutely moronic marketing strategy. If we don't sell, we don't bring in money, all while our competitors have time to catch up. So if anyone does this on an innovative product, they are just stupid. Besides being generally bad business, it is contrary to our goal, get TQs in as many pockets as possible. The same can be said about Flux. I wish I made more than $45K a year, the average person in my job makes more than 10X that. Flux could bring in $10M tonight if we just had the product, so you can bet your butt I have been working very hard to change that for the last couple years. Quality production in the US when you don't already have good MFGs is very difficult, but we are solving that.

We have increased production more than 500%, and will continue to do produce more and more until we have trouble selling them.

Let me know if you have any more questions! Best to tag me. Cheers

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

And please keep the feedback coming!!!

[BillSWPA]

And please keep the feedback coming!!!

I appreciate the continued engagement and response to feedback, and will keep an eye on the website for in-stock product. The difficulties of introducing a new product are understood.

[Paul Blackburn]

This is why I rarely buy new products right after they're released into the wild because issues do crop up. Within 2-3 years we get gen2 and gen3 models that address the issues.

[Joe S]

This is why I rarely buy new products right after they're released into the wild because issues do crop up. Within 2-3 years we get gen2 and gen3 models that address the issues.

This is where I tend to land most of the time, probably doubly so when it comes to medical/defensive stuff.

FWIW, I've been fairly impressed how Ben has handled the criticism. That's a hard game in today's internet.

Are they still quasi-unobtanium?

[theJanitor]

I was finally able to get a few, with today's drop. Thanks for the apple pay tip, guys!

I'll see if it's something that I can trust, but for the most part, it will be 100 times better than the NOTHING i carry now

[PNWTO]

Picked up 2, happy to check these out.

[WDR]

Snagged one to try.

[Spartan1980]

Just got a couple! Gonna give one to my daughter. She's a pediatric nurse and has kiddoes so it should be right up her alley.

[WDR]

FWIW, I ordered on Wednesday around 1:30, and had my TQ in the mail the very next day. I'm sure it helps that I am within an hours drive of the seller, but that is impressively fast shipping.

It is indeed very small. Well packaged, if you desire to leave it in the plastic. I have not played with it yet. If these get the nod from the larger medical community, I could see picking up a few of each size to keep around.

[GearFondler]

I ran into some negative comments on these tourniquets. My apologies if these videos have been posted earlier:

Looking at the comments, it seems this reviewers experience with this tourniquets is atypical. Still, I thought it would be good for people to know about.

Not being a TQ SME I haven't had much to say aside from when I tried out mine (regular ETQ) I did not have his issues but maybe I didn't try hard enough.
However, I do feel qualified to address one small issue he had regarding the windlass and it's supposed inability to be properly stored away for pocket carry.
My son bought mine for me and also purchased the storage sleeve to go with it. At $15 for a simple elastic sleeve I feel it is definitely overpriced but it does work great for storing, protecting, and staging the TQ. And it holds the windlass securely in the vertical position and out of the clasp which that dude claims cannot be done. Mine has ridden in my back pocket every day and has yet to shift around. I am also sure there are easily many other sleeves or pouches out there that would work just as well for this purpose.
If you're gonna bash something make sure your arguments are legitimate or you lose your credibility.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/4b34e5ec0bc13be6f295b16395b2fdc9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/7418e34ada3fc505e7ca760bd898d9bb.jpg

[Joe S]

Not being a TQ SME I haven't had much to say aside from when I tried out mine (regular ETQ) I did not have his issues but maybe I didn't try hard enough.
However, I do feel qualified to address one small issue he had regarding the windlass and it's supposed inability to be properly stored away for pocket carry.
My son bought mine for me and also purchased the storage sleeve to go with it. At $15 for a simple elastic sleeve I feel it is definitely overpriced but it does work great for storing, protecting, and staging the TQ. And it holds the windlass securely in the vertical position and out of the clasp which that dude claims cannot be done. Mine has ridden in my back pocket every day and has yet to shift around. I am also sure there are easily many other sleeves or pouches out there that would work just as well for this purpose.
If you're gonna bash something make sure your arguments are legitimate or you lose your credibility.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/4b34e5ec0bc13be6f295b16395b2fdc9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/7418e34ada3fc505e7ca760bd898d9bb.jpg

I have always used a produce rubber band to keep my TQs together: adds no bulk, let's me color code them if I need, will expand if I want to bundle it with an Israeli bandage or gauze, and I can just rip/tear the thing right off if I need.

It doesn't look very super duper operator guy, but works for me.

[Joe S]

This is the one that was in the diaper bag:

101298

[GearFondler]

.... https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230220/bf450f9b3aab9e4615c2d160607914cd.jpg

[DMCutter]

I was just on there and they weren't sold out yet, in case anyone is still looking for one.

[JCN]

I was just on there and they weren't sold out yet, in case anyone is still looking for one.

Can you use this on a severed finger? Asking for a friend…

[DMCutter]

It's funny you should ask that. When I severed my finger I did in fact have a EDC TQ in my jersey pocket and my first thought was "do I need a TQ?" but I quickly realized a Quickclot was the right choice. The takeaway, though, is that it's easy to do stupid shit that causes lots of bleeding and a wee little TQ in your pocket way very well come in handy.

[Totem Polar]

Thanks for reminding me of this, folks. I just grabbed one to check out for myself.

[BillSWPA]

I ordered Wednesday evening, and received a shipping notice yesterday. As of now, these are still in stock.

[DMF13]

My son bought mine for me and also purchased the storage sleeve to go with it. At $15 for a simple elastic sleeve I feel it is definitely overpriced but it does work great for storing, protecting, and staging the TQ. And it holds the windlass securely in the vertical position and out of the clasp which that dude claims cannot be done. . .

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/4b34e5ec0bc13be6f295b16395b2fdc9.jpg
That sleeve looks like it might be difficult to remove with one hand. Have you tested that out?

[GearFondler]

That sleeve looks like it might be difficult to remove with one hand. Have you tested that out?Really glad you asked because the answer was no I had not... D'uh!
So do you see that black cloth label sewn into the seam? I can grab that tab with my front teeth and easily pull the TQ out one-handed.
Thanks for pointing this out!

[Joe S]

Just received mine. I will play with it a bit and add if I have any useful thoughts.

I should mention, the post marked my original order as delivered. I never saw it, so I'm assuming it was stolen. It has happened a few times during/post pandemic here. Anyway, Snakestaff asked me to wait a little while, and a week and change later sent me another one. I had asked, but they did it with no fuss. Good service.

Tacking on to my rubber band comment from earlier: a small piece of string can get hitched to the band and a belt loop, if you want the thing to rip into action one handed fr

[DMF13]

Really glad you asked because the answer was no I had not... D'uh!
So do you see that black cloth label sewn into the seam? I can grab that tab with my front teeth and easily pull the TQ out one-handed.
Thanks for pointing this out!Thanks for trying it out, and letting us know.

We used to have a paramedic who did all our TacMed training. He beat into our heads the need to be able to put a tourniquet on ourselves one handed, so that is the question that pops up every time I see a setup for tourniquets.

[WobblyPossum]

I wonder if production has finally caught up to demand. Both variants seem to still be in stock on the website. You can add to cart with a limit of 10.

[ST911]

Feedback from the units I bought and passed around, both narrow and wide. Summarized with my words, in no particular order or value assigned unless noted. Some got reminders to consider ETQ in its intended context, not as a direct competitor to others. As expected, this was mostly an issue with those with existing training or product preference.


Functional as TQ.
Better than nothing.
Better than some of the elastic options. (Usually followed 1-handed self-applications.)
Favorable comments on the QR code, easy to find product video, and the 3 printed lines of instruction.
Plenty of reps and applications, tension and duration varied. TQs held up. Hook and loop still good.
1” is too thin, wide is preferred width.
"Felt cheap", other comments on overall perception of construction.
Glo-stick comments range from indifference to gimmick. A few thought it was some sort of level. Only one user enthusiastic about it. Possibly advantageous if activated prior to an event (training, hit, etc) and if red rather than green.
Glo-stick is replaceable, not sure when/why you'd replace it on a single-use item. Instructors recognized it could be replaced on training units for classes/reps, but wouldn't.
Windlass “feels small.”
Windlass trouble: Gate/clip too tall, got in the way of windlass rotation sometimes. Center of windlass and rotation point is too close to the gate, windlass is too short for best leverage especially one-handed.
Windlass trouble: Spring bar inside clip could be pushed down, but sometimes not enough room inside for windlass to clear it and allow it to pop back up.
Both windlass troubles exacerbated by the windlass (rolling?) to the left relative to the gate. As it was rotated clockwise the tension band passing through the windlass gathers material underneath, even when strap is properly pulled tight.
Because of above, one-handed applications were more complicated/difficult than other similar designs (CAT/SOF/TMT).
Some had seen ETQ already, a couple tried to order, but gave up when constantly out of stock.
When EDC context considered, not enough smaller/thinner/lighter to replace CATv7 or SOF.
No advantage to the ETQ over SOF or CAT when in a kit, pouch, or bag.
CAT fans: leave the gate/clip open, make the wings on the top of the gate same size.
SOF fans: lots of plastic, plastic used in ETQ is suspect.
Common: not necessarily a bad TQ, but “why?”
Questions about any tests of durability after longer term heat & cold cycling or extremes such as in a car or on kit.
Questions about UV exposure testing.
ETQ is same price as known-good SOF and CAT, would consider ETQ if cheaper. Suggested price point of $25 or less.
Package a live and trainer combo "value-pack" at $40.

I won't add these to my kits, no gain over my current preferences. I'll use the ETQ wides as trainers and exemplars and see when they appreciably wear or break. I have no use for the narrows.

[SouthNarc]

Personally I think comparisons of the ETQ to a CAT or SOF-T aren’t really well placed.

I wouldn’t carry an Sig 365XL in a Safariland duty holster on a war belt.

If people will carry an ETQ when they won’t carry anything else I just don’t see how one can be critical of the product unless it just flat out didn’t work.

[BillSWPA]

Personally I think comparisons of the ETQ to a CAT or SOF-T aren’t really well placed.

I wouldn’t carry an Sig 365XL in a Safariland duty holster on a war belt.

If people will carry an ETQ when they won’t carry anything else I just don’t see how one can be critical of the product unless it just flat out didn’t work.

I received my tourniquets today. They are going to help ensure that I have a tourniquet on my person or at least in my outside jacket pocket at times when I might not otherwise have one.

[the Schwartz]

Can you use this on a severed finger? Asking for a friend…

Steel glowing red hot for when the Dremel's cut-off wheel slips?

[Lowspeed_highdrag]

Personally I think comparisons of the ETQ to a CAT or SOF-T aren’t really well placed.

I wouldn’t carry an Sig 365XL in a Safariland duty holster on a war belt.

If people will carry an ETQ when they won’t carry anything else I just don’t see how one can be critical of the product unless it just flat out didn’t work.

I bought a few ETQ recently for this very purpose. I was not carrying a TQ off duty, couldn't find a way to do it. The ETQ carries easily in a G19 AIWB pouch, allowing me to finally carry one. Even better, it fits in my Harley's handlebar bag, allowing me to have a TQ on my bike. There's a CAT on my duty belt, but an ETQ off duty.

[theJanitor]

I got the carrier for the ETQ from coyote tactical.

I’m tucking the molle mounting strap into the back so it’s not loose in my front pants pocket

I think this is a decent solution for protecting more of the TQ while it’s rattling around in the pockets.

Comparison to the ETQ in the phlster med wallet

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230310/817f3c65a000fea7e5e93de50b34b914.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230310/3ee2a291743010afa6467af9f858872e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230310/1c660576b36640707a5f4025cc249d14.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DMCutter]

I got the carrier for the ETQ from coyote tactical.

I’m tucking the molle mounting strap into the back so it’s not loose in my front pants pocket



Nice. I like that it covers the top, where my magazine pouch leaves it exposed. Plus it fits the wide. Reckon I'll order a couple. Thanks for that.

[theJanitor]

Nice. I like that it covers the top, where my magazine pouch leaves it exposed. Plus it fits the wide. Reckon I'll order a couple. Thanks for that.

It's meant for belt carry, but I'm gonna pocket carry it. It also is easy to get the TQ out with one hand. I just got it, but i think it might be the way I carry the ETQ, going forward

[Joe S]

I bought a few ETQ recently for this very purpose. I was not carrying a TQ off duty, couldn't find a way to do it. The ETQ carries easily in a G19 AIWB pouch, allowing me to finally carry one. Even better, it fits in my Harley's handlebar bag, allowing me to have a TQ on my bike. There's a CAT on my duty belt, but an ETQ off duty.

I'm still fiddling with mine, but I don't find the ETQ to be that much smaller, comfort wise, so far. I can fit it into thinner sheaths (in a generic nylon flashlight pouch on the outside of a dad backpack now), but the rigid gate assembly makes it thicker than a flat fold SOFT-TW. But I can see how it's an improvement for CAT folks, because of that even bulkier assembly (but that's why the SOFT-TW sees more use for me).

I have plenty of length and width I can carry in a pants pocket, on an ankle, or in a blazer pocket. An OWB sheath is a no go for my life, and I can still get the SOFT-T flatter.

That, and how easily the velcro side flips over on application, making it slower to secure before cranking the windlass makes me think it might not be for me (or us: I thought I could get the wife to carry one that could reasonably fit a smaller purse/fanny pack.)

Still playing with it.

[BillSWPA]

One of the two I ordered replaced the SWAT-T in one of the pocket kits I use from Dark Angel Medical. That kit lives in a jacket pocket during any weather when a jacket is helpful.

[runngun]

102482
102483
$8.95 BFG sling-sleeve (https://www.blueforcegear.com/sling-sleeve.html)

[masternave]

I think I have one of those in my bag of unused stuff… * runs to check *

[ben_flux_snakestaff]

Feedback from the units I bought and passed around, both narrow and wide. Summarized with my words, in no particular order or value assigned unless noted. Some got reminders to consider ETQ in its intended context, not as a direct competitor to others. As expected, this was mostly an issue with those with existing training or product preference.


Functional as TQ.
Better than nothing.
Better than some of the elastic options. (Usually followed 1-handed self-applications.)
Favorable comments on the QR code, easy to find product video, and the 3 printed lines of instruction.
Plenty of reps and applications, tension and duration varied. TQs held up. Hook and loop still good.
1” is too thin, wide is preferred width.
"Felt cheap", other comments on overall perception of construction.
Glo-stick comments range from indifference to gimmick. A few thought it was some sort of level. Only one user enthusiastic about it. Possibly advantageous if activated prior to an event (training, hit, etc) and if red rather than green.
Glo-stick is replaceable, not sure when/why you'd replace it on a single-use item. Instructors recognized it could be replaced on training units for classes/reps, but wouldn't.
Windlass “feels small.”
Windlass trouble: Gate/clip too tall, got in the way of windlass rotation sometimes. Center of windlass and rotation point is too close to the gate, windlass is too short for best leverage especially one-handed.
Windlass trouble: Spring bar inside clip could be pushed down, but sometimes not enough room inside for windlass to clear it and allow it to pop back up.
Both windlass troubles exacerbated by the windlass (rolling?) to the left relative to the gate. As it was rotated clockwise the tension band passing through the windlass gathers material underneath, even when strap is properly pulled tight.
Because of above, one-handed applications were more complicated/difficult than other similar designs (CAT/SOF/TMT).
Some had seen ETQ already, a couple tried to order, but gave up when constantly out of stock.
When EDC context considered, not enough smaller/thinner/lighter to replace CATv7 or SOF.
No advantage to the ETQ over SOF or CAT when in a kit, pouch, or bag.
CAT fans: leave the gate/clip open, make the wings on the top of the gate same size.
SOF fans: lots of plastic, plastic used in ETQ is suspect.
Common: not necessarily a bad TQ, but “why?”
Questions about any tests of durability after longer term heat & cold cycling or extremes such as in a car or on kit.
Questions about UV exposure testing.
ETQ is same price as known-good SOF and CAT, would consider ETQ if cheaper. Suggested price point of $25 or less.
Package a live and trainer combo "value-pack" at $40.

I won't add these to my kits, no gain over my current preferences. I'll use the ETQ wides as trainers and exemplars and see when they appreciably wear or break. I have no use for the narrows.

Thank you very much for this, lots of really good feedback. For you, or others wondering, the molded parts are from two distinct brand name Zytel nylon blends - the base being flexible around the limb and unbreakable (in all of the insane torture testing we never broke one) and the windlass is made from a much more rigid (high glass fiber fill) Zytel. The base is very similar blend to that of the Glock Frame, and the windlass is closer to the Sig P320 frame (or Raider frame, if you know what that is). If we find better materials, we will upgrade, but these were very carefully chosen for each part, and have proven to be very, very good. We are looking at doing a 65% long glass fiber blend on the windlass, as that may be an upgrade, but we need to do lots of testing to know for sure. We did extreme temperature testing on both ends, and left some out in the sun for a year, although longer term UV testing would have been better. If they are EDC items, they will rarely if ever get UV exposure, but that was still a huge factor in material choice.

The "feels cheap" reaction is less common than the opposite, as the materials, design and construction are high. However, when asked specifically, people always point to the strap being that which feels cheap. Understandable, as our strap is only the hook and loop, without excess material which would make it "feel" more heavy duty, but would do nothing besides add bulk. My co-designer wanted desperately to add a nylon webbing backer specifically because of this, just to make it feel more heavy duty. The hook and loop we use is the same material that most other quality TQ MFGs use.

While it will not be ready for quite some time (have to redo testing even after dev is done), I have been working on gen 2 to make them much easier to use, and improve them in any way we can.

A reminder that the point of the 1" is not to replace any other TQ, but to get those who do not already carry a TQ to start doing so, as people are very often more than 2 minutes (how long a femoral bleed can result in unconsciousness) away from a TQ. Whatever brand you choose, just be prepared to save a life, whether it be yours, your family, or a stranger.

[theJanitor]

Got this carrier in from Tuffpossum gear. Will see how it pans out

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230410/0ef086547d8952d1283b5c3a4fa33aca.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[runngun]

I have been carrying the ETQ daily ever since I got it. It is unobtrusive, and does not annoy or inconvenience me the way that other TQs did (CAT or SOF-T).

I would highly encourage anyone who does not currently carry a TQ to get one. While you may feel it's lacking in some way compared to other TQs, if you aren't carrying another TQ that is a false comparison. The real comparison would be between the ETQ and whatever TQ you could improvise one handed in 10 or 15 seconds. Think of it as a rule 1 TQ if that helps.

[sharps54]

I have been carrying the ETQ daily ever since I got it. It is unobtrusive, and does not annoy or inconvenience me the way that other TQs did (CAT or SOF-T).

I would highly encourage anyone who does not currently carry a TQ to get one. While you may feel it's lacking in some way compared to other TQs, if you aren't carrying another TQ that is a false comparison. The real comparison would be between the ETQ and whatever TQ you could improvise one handed in 10 or 15 seconds. Think of it as a rule 1 TQ if that helps.

Thanks for bumping this thread, I just ordered two of the wides, one to practice with and one to carry. I have full size TQs but don’t always carry them when I am out and about.

[WobblyPossum]

It seems like the company has also increased production capacity to meet demand because the tourniquets are now regularly in stock and available to order. At some point I’ll pick up one or two of the wide version.

[Joe S]

Article from Caleb Causey of Lone Star: https://www.lonestarmedics.com/mindseteducationtoolslsm-blog/2023/7/21/subjective-vs-objective-choosing-medical-gear

[Totem Polar]

Think of it as a rule 1 TQ if that helps.

That’s how I see it too. The LCP of TQs. Nice to have in a pocket on a hot summer’s night while going to see “Oppenheimer” or something. Very useful in that role.

[Shawn Dodson]

I just ordered 3.

1 for training.

1 each for me and my wife to EDC.

I have 6 SOF-Ts and 6 CATs in my various trauma kits for vehicles and home.

[Warped Mindless]

Been carrying the wide version since the second week they came out. No problems yet with them getting beat up carrying in my front pocket.

[Shawn Dodson]

Okay, over the weekend, I got the ones I just ordered, with carriers.

After applying one to my arm several times, my first impressions:

I couldn't find a way to keep the Velcro from sticking to itself when applying the tourniquet, and it really slowed down applying it properly. I need more practice.
I tried applying it like I do a CAT or SOF-T, with it tight enough to slip two fingers between the tourniquet and the arm, and I couldn't cinch down the windlass enough to where I couldn't feel a pulse on my wrist. So I read the instructions, and they said to apply it tight and then take turns on the windlass, which produced better results.
The windlass is short and challenging to manipulate.
I couldn't fold it back up as tightly and compactly as it was when I opened the package to play with it. After working with it for a while I opened the package of one the other tourniquets and studied how it was all folded up, and after struggling for a while I got it "close" but not as nice. It'd be nice if the manufacturer would put a video or photo montage of how to fold it up compactly like they do when they ship it to you, so it fits in the carrier better.
It carries very well in a cargo pocket of my Duluth Fire Hose Flex shorts. I don't notice it's there.

[3-7-77]

Any updates on these? I have some FSA money I need to burn.

[Totem Polar]

Any updates on these? I have some FSA money I need to burn.

Bumping, to see how the P-F hive feels at this point. GTG? I’ve been lugging one around since this thread was last active, as mentioned, as the LCP of TQs. So far, so good, but also no serious pressure testing, thankfully. I’m feeling the need to get a few more, eg. a dedicated wide one to put in the motorcycle jacket as an adjunct to the EDC, etc. Hence the thread bump.

🤷🏼

[Clusterfrack]

I tried the Snake staff TQ, and brought it to a TECC seminar. After trying and comparing to other options, I won’t be using it. Strongly prefer the SWAT-t for a pocket TQ.

[RevolverRob]

I tried the Snake staff TQ, and brought it to a TECC seminar. After trying and comparing to other options, I won’t be using it. Strongly prefer the SWAT-t for a pocket TQ.

What did you dislike about it? Or perhaps prefer about the others?

I've had one stashed in my vest/jacket pocket kit for a while. But a SWAT-t would be smaller. I keep CATs in my bag and house kits.

[Totem Polar]

I tried the Snake staff TQ, and brought it to a TECC seminar. After trying and comparing to other options, I won’t be using it. Strongly prefer the SWAT-t for a pocket TQ.

Gen1 or 2, CF? Right after I posted, I checked in with the site to see how availability is at this juncture. I see that there is now a Gen2 that addresses what little concern I had over the first iteration. I’ll let you know how the Gen2s look in a bit here, since I ordered 1 each in both widths, as well as a wide trainer, since that’s what was available.

ETA:

https://vimeo.com/1064371056


https://vimeo.com/1064371056

[Clusterfrack]

Mine was the OG SnakeStaff TQ purchased in 2023. Unlike the CAT, the SS windlass only tightens a small section of the strap. When I applied it to a training partner (big boy ~300+), it pinched his leg and didn't tighten evenly around the entire circumference. That was a hard fail.


Gen1 or 2, CF? Right after I posted, I checked in with the site to see how availability is at this juncture. I see that there is now a Gen2 that addresses what little concern I had over the first iteration. I’ll let you know how the Gen2s look in a bit here, since I ordered 1 each in both widths, as well as a wide trainer, since that’s what was available.

ETA:

https://vimeo.com/1064371056


https://vimeo.com/1064371056

[Totem Polar]

Mine was the OG SnakeStaff TQ purchased in 2023. Unlike the CAT, the SS windlass only tightens a small section of the strap. When I applied it to a training partner (big boy ~300+), it pinched his leg and didn't tighten evenly around the entire circumference. That was a hard fail.

Roger

[Clusterfrack]

After using the SWAT-t at TECC (https://pfctraining.com/trauma-care-and-immediate-response-tcair/) and another tac med seminar, I'm sold on it. For most uses, the CAT and SOFT-w are better TQs. But the SWAT-t can double as a pressure dressing or chest seal, works on kids, and can even be cut to make two TQs if needed. And it can be carried in a pocket, or rolled into a small rod and secured with a ranger band. The instructors had some that were 5+ years old and had been used as demos. They still worked like new.

I now have 5 SWAT-t's in various places.

[Totem Polar]

After using the SWAT-t at TECC (https://pfctraining.com/trauma-care-and-immediate-response-tcair/) and another tac med seminar, I'm sold on it. For most uses, the CAT and SOFT-w are better TQs. But the SWAT-t can double as a pressure dressing or chest seal, works on kids, and can even be cut to make two TQs if needed. And it can be carried in a pocket, or rolled into a small rod and secured with a ranger band. The instructors had some that were 5+ years old and had been used as demos. They still worked like new.

I now have 5 SWAT-t's in various places.

You have a good source? I see that they’re +/-15 bucks on Amazon, but not up on how reliable the ‘zon is on these units (I know that the zon is known for knock offs of other TQ designs).

[Clusterfrack]

I got them on Amazon
https://a.co/d/h3n6tOQ

EDIT: worth getting one for practice, unless you prefer rolling it up. Applying it is easy --once you've done it a few times.

[runcible]

A week ago, a good friend of mine attempted to self-treat a gunshot wound to a lower extremity. He was unable to apply effective pressure with his first TQ attempt, using a Snakestaff Systems TQ of unknown generation, and in his continued attempts to manage the significant hemorrhage, that unit destructively disassembled. After which, he self-applied two CATs successfully, ultimately arresting further blood loss, then documenting his interventions.

While that is a single data point with a large number of unknowns, my preexisting concerns about their product have me continuing to pass on it. It has an interesting underlying concept, but an execution that does not appear to address the baseline.

[Clusterfrack]

^^^glad he's ok

[ST911]

Bumping, to see how the P-F hive feels at this point. GTG? I’ve been lugging one around since this thread was last active, as mentioned, as the LCP of TQs. So far, so good, but also no serious pressure testing, thankfully. I’m feeling the need to get a few more, eg. a dedicated wide one to put in the motorcycle jacket as an adjunct to the EDC, etc. Hence the thread bump. 🤷🏼

Ran several as trainers. See previous posts on use observations. They are still holding up. Have not used v2, I may or may not.

They are better than nothing, and another option, but I prefer a flat folded SOF in latest revision or a CAT v7.


After using the SWAT-t at TECC and another tac med seminar, I'm sold on it. For most uses, the CAT and SOFT-w are better TQs. But the SWAT-t can double as a pressure dressing or chest seal, works on kids, and can even be cut to make two TQs if needed. And it can be carried in a pocket, or rolled into a small rod and secured with a ranger band. The instructors had some that were 5+ years old and had been used as demos. They still worked like new. I now have 5 SWAT-t's in various places.

SWAT-Ts are great pressure dressings and splint-supports. Roll smaller than control wrap, too.

[Totem Polar]

I got them on Amazon
https://a.co/d/h3n6tOQ

EDIT: worth getting one for practice, unless you prefer rolling it up. Applying it is easy --once you've done it a few times.

Again, copy that.

A week ago, a good friend of mine attempted to self-treat a gunshot wound to a lower extremity. He was unable to apply effective pressure with his first TQ attempt, using a Snakestaff Systems TQ of unknown generation, and in his continued attempts to manage the significant hemorrhage, that unit destructively disassembled. After which, he self-applied two CATs successfully, ultimately arresting further blood loss, then documenting his interventions.

While that is a single data point with a large number of unknowns, my preexisting concerns about their product have me continuing to pass on it. It has an interesting underlying concept, but an execution that does not appear to address the baseline.

Good grief.


Ran several as trainers. See previous posts on use observations. They are still holding up. Have not used v2, I may or may not.

They are better than nothing, and another option, but I prefer a flat folded SOF in latest revision or a CAT v7.



SWAT-Ts are great pressure dressings and splint-supports. Roll smaller than control wrap, too.

Good copy, as well, thanks.

[Sasage]

Paramedic here. Swat ts are terrible tourniquets. Blood and rubber don’t mix.

Buy a Cat or other approved tq.

[Clusterfrack]

Paramedic here. Swat ts are terrible tourniquets. Blood and rubber don’t mix.

Buy a Cat or other approved tq.

Good feedback. The CSAR instructor and paramedic at my TECC mentioned that, but still were big fans of the SWAT-t as a pocket or 2nd TQ. It sounds like we need to practice with SWAT-and blood stimulant (KY jelly or other), or use a CAT or SOFT.

[Sasage]

Good feedback. The CSAR instructor and paramedic at my TECC mentioned that, but still were big fans of the SWAT-t as a pocket or 2nd TQ. It sounds like we need to practice with SWAT-and blood stimulant (KY jelly or other), or use a CAT or SOFT.

NAR offers discounts is you’re le mil or fr. Studies show it takes two tqs to occlude lower extremity bleeds as one tq is only 70% effective. How would you self apply a swat t to an upper extremity bleeds? Food for thought.

I would take pressure points or clam shell technique over pocket swat t Imo.

[AMC]

Paramedic here. Swat ts are terrible tourniquets. Blood and rubber don’t mix.

Buy a Cat or other approved tq.

While I think the SWAT T has its uses, the blood and rubber thing is real talk. Used a SWAT T on a brachial artery bleed on a drunk who broke into the wrong house thinking it was his. It was.....difficult to say the least.

[Jason M]

Paramedic here. Swat ts are terrible tourniquets. Blood and rubber don’t mix.

Buy a Cat or other approved tq.

Me too, albeit inactive. This is the takeaway in a nutshell. Stick to COTCCC-approved devices for this reason. They do the research so you don't have to. It's like DocGKR's list but for TQs.

[Hambo]

Paramedic here. Swat ts are terrible tourniquets. Blood and rubber don’t mix.



I get that they don't tighten like a CAT, but what's the blood and rubber thing?

[runcible]

I get that they don't tighten like a CAT, but what's the blood and rubber thing?

The initial wrap of the SWATT around itself is hampered by the free end's lack of tracking against fresh/uncoagulating blood, making it difficult to effect that loop without capturing one's fingers in the process - with captive fingers preventing effective binding under tension.

Without that good first loop, the rest is minimally effective. Further, even with a good first loop, the enwrapment readily rotates around the injured limb in the direction of the pull.

They can be made to work, but I have yet to see self-aid demonstrated to a time standard, and even two handed application has significant hurdles to effective application.

With the backstopping of CAT and SOFTTW application to even infant extremities effectively, it's hard to recommend it for any reason, even with the relative comfort of carry.

[AMC]

I get that they don't tighten like a CAT, but what's the blood and rubber thing?

Think trying to make a paper airplane out of half set jello.