Naperville IL crazy traffic stop

[LittleLebowski]

#WellThatEscalatedQuickly

Damn good job on the officer’s part.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxoPm-3we08

[HeavyDuty]

Damn. Right down the street from my office, and behind my usual lunchtime haunts.

[45dotACP]

Bear in mind: Naperville, IL was several years in a row listed as one of the best places to live in the US.

This was not some hood ass Chicago shit hole. This is straight up white picket fence America where the average price of a home is well over $400,000

It can happen there or anywhere. Stay safe out there.

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[RoyGBiv]

This was back in June//// Can't find any reported motivation for that idiot...

[JHC]

Holy sheeat. I wouldn't be surprised that some of his folks secretly thought "wuuuuut?" when he described that until they saw that video. That's and crazy as any I can recall.

[JHC]

Damn. Right down the street from my office, and behind my usual lunchtime haunts.

I didn't listen to all of it but a lot after the action. Sure sounded to me like a pretty buttoned up PD.

[45dotACP]

This was back in June//// Can't find any reported motivation for that idiot...Looks like a bunch of RX bottles tumbled out of the guys vest when he got lit up.

Also as a side note, looks like one of the responding officers was rocking a Staccato.

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[Coyotesfan97]

It can happen anywhere and anytime. Great reaction putting down a charging threat!

Two minor quibbles. I’d move after the shooting and put myself between the suspect and the witness in the car Judy in case. When someone says move up and cover his head you walk up over the suspect and point your gun straight down at his head. If you do need to shoot it’s going straight down. I don’t want you ten feet away when I’m going hands on firing shots.

[LittleLebowski]

From the YouTube comments.



If anyone’s curious, the suspect is a well known roided up freak with a history of sporadic aggression and has like 6 felony charges open for domestic battery and aggravated battery on an LEO and civilian. He has a page on bodybuilding forums detailing his aggression from anabolic steroids when he started competing in bodybuilding at 17

[Half Moon]

EDITED: Oops, wrong thread and not sure how I did that...

[awp_101]

After watching the traffic just cruise on by in the opposite direction, I have a question.

If I roll up on a single LEO holding one or more people at gunpoint on the ground, what’s considered “best practice”? Obviously I don’t want to get out and approach on foot but should I roll down the window and ask if I need to summon help? Position my vehicle to block traffic until help arrives?

[john c]

After watching the traffic just cruise on by in the opposite direction, I have a question.

If I roll up on a single LEO holding one or more people at gunpoint on the ground, what’s considered “best practice”? Obviously I don’t want to get out and approach on foot but should I roll down the window and ask if I need to summon help? Position my vehicle to block traffic until help arrives?

Keep rolling and don't stop. If you feel like the officer doesn't have it under control, call 911 and report what you see. Don't distract the officer from the task at hand. Dispatch will be more than willing to take the information and put it out to other units, etc. Stopping and asking the officer anything is NOT helping in any way.

This may be different in a rural area.

[Utm]

After watching the traffic just cruise on by in the opposite direction, I have a question.

If I roll up on a single LEO holding one or more people at gunpoint on the ground, what’s considered “best practice”? Obviously I don’t want to get out and approach on foot but should I roll down the window and ask if I need to summon help? Position my vehicle to block traffic until help arrives?
At gunpoint = under control

Suspect on top= definitely not under control and should be the only time you try to help after saying something like "officer I'm here to help"

[jnc36rcpd]

awp, first, thanks for being someone who would stop for an officer seeming to need assistance. Both john c and Utm offer valid suggestions. john c makes a valid point that the decision may vary based on location.

I will remark that off-duty officers jumping into the fray are at significant risk of being shot by on duty officers. On the few occasions I have jumped into the fray, I've been concerned that my arrival and introduction might be a distraction that does more harm than good. On many occasions, I have simply observed from a distance until on-duty back-up arrived.

This is situationally dependent. If the officer seems in a sporty situation, but is not clearly losing, and you hear sirens approaching, it is probably best to observe until things go clearly bad. On the other hand, if you encounter the one lone park ranger or state trooper dealing with several subjects miles from civilization, offering to help would possibly be appreciated.

[Lester Polfus]

One of the first things that jumped into my mind after watching that was that if I'd drafted a Con-Sim scenario like that, people would have jumped all in my shit about how totally unrealistic it was.

That officer did a great job switching contexts in a big damn hurry.

[45dotACP]

Something that jumped into my brain was the whole "21 foot rule" thing that gets parroted a lot.

Is that meant to apply to a surprise ambush? Because this guy was fewer than 21 feet away and the officer burned him down with good, solid 5/6 hits on a running man whilst backpedaling and took no damage or injury.

Or is this the exception to the rule as the officer effectively created space from the suspect, quickly read his intent and reacted?

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[Le Français]

It can happen anywhere and anytime. Great reaction putting down a charging threat!

Two minor quibbles. I’d move after the shooting and put myself between the suspect and the witness in the car [just] in case.

I don’t think I would elect to turn my back on the person I had just pulled over, especially since at that point one could reasonably wonder whether or not the two events were linked (attacker coming to “rescue” the subject of the traffic stop).

Putting the witness’ car between the officer and the downed threat, and then having the witness come out on the passenger side and stay by the car is probably what I hope I would do, FWIW.

[Coyotesfan97]

I don’t think I would elect to turn my back on the person I had just pulled over, especially since at that point one could reasonably wonder whether or not the two events were linked (attacker coming to “rescue” the subject of the traffic stop).

Putting the witness’ car between the officer and the downed threat, and then having the witness come out on the passenger side and stay by the car is probably what I hope I would do, FWIW.

That’s a possibility I hadn’t considered but there’s no reaction from the stopped driver when the possible rescuer is shot down. I’m thinking I’d(like you hopefully) circle the stopped car and move up to the driver’s door to cover the suspect from there. I’m physically protecting that driver and controlling the access to all three cars.

[jnc36rcpd]

Something that jumped into my brain was the whole "21 foot rule" thing that gets parroted a lot.

Is that meant to apply to a surprise ambush? Because this guy was fewer than 21 feet away and the officer burned him down with good, solid 5/6 hits on a running man whilst backpedaling and took no damage or injury.

Or is this the exception to the rule as the officer effectively created space from the suspect, quickly read his intent and reacted?

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The "twenty-one foot rule" is more of a guideline (sort of like the pirates' code ). It came from research into a roleplayer with a simulated knife charging an officer with the sidearm in a security holster. At twenty-one feet or less, the officer was unlikely to draw and deliver an effective double-tap (if I recall correctly). Of course, all the roleplayers knew exactly what was going to happen.

The twenty-one foot rule is very situationally and personally dependent. Within twenty-one feet (likely more, possibly less), the officer may be better using whatever is in hand or going hands on. In the case, I think situational awareness and skill at arms prevailed over the average.

[Lester Polfus]

Ok. I'll play too.

I'm not going to criticize this guy at all because he ate a very sudden, unexpected shit sandwich, but my first thought about the driver of the stopped car was that maybe it would be good to just tell them to drive away and park down the street in the Piggly Wiggly parking lot and wait for an officer to contact them as a witness.

That removes them as a potential backstop if Stabby McAxerson gets up again, which has been known to happen, and they are just one less thing to manage.

I'd particularly be inclined to do that if the person I pulled over was Suzy Homemaker who rolled through a stop sign while she was sending a text message while trying to fish her kid's pacifier off the floor of the car. If I remember correctly he actually still had the citation in his hand after the shooting, so he knows who the driver is.

[blues]

One of the first things that jumped into my mind after watching that was that if I'd drafted a Con-Sim scenario like that, people would have jumped all in my shit about how totally unrealistic it was.

That officer did a great job switching contexts in a big damn hurry.

And you'd be right. At FLETC they had a scenario with a search warrant being conducted at a private home. Woman with a baby carriage is walking down the street toward the residence. Agent directs her away from property due to the search. She pulls a gun from under the baby blanket and shoots the agent.

Are you reasonably expected to draw down on a woman with a baby carriage on the street? Or be standing with your handgun in ready position? (That's just a bad day in anybody's book.)

[Coyotesfan97]

And you'd be right. At FLETC they had a scenario with a search warrant being conducted at a private home. Woman with a baby carriage is walking down the street toward the residence. Agent directs her away from property due to the search. She pulls a gun from under the baby blanket and shoots the agent.

Are you reasonably expected to draw down on a woman with a baby carriage on the street? Or be standing with your handgun in ready position? (That's just a bad day in anybody's book.)

Those kinds of scenarios just leave you scratching your head thinking WTF. I guess I’d be questioning that one heavily afterwards. Could it happen sure but it’s like an attorney asking if it’s possible percentage.

[blues]

Those kinds of scenarios just leave you scratching your head thinking WTF. I guess I’d be questioning that one heavily afterwards. Could it happen sure but it’s like an attorney asking if it’s possible percentage.

I made sure to question the staff during the after-action discussion. They admitted it wasn't a particularly good training scenario. (Given that the agent involved was on the perimeter. Then again, I guess it could've been a suicide bomber. :rolleyes:)

[fixer]

Holy fuck people have lost it.