Glock 26/ Mayhem comp

[GJM]

This past summer, Maple Leaf milled a G4 26 for me. This is my first 26 with an optic, and I have really enjoyed shooting it. The thing that stands out, is how flat the 26 slide cycles, even with snappy ammo.

The other day, I shot some 150 Federal Syntech in the 26, since that load shoots so soft. Interestingly, my times were much better with Lawman, which is quite snappy by comparison. My sense is the 26 feels abrupt, but cycles very fast.

Yesterday, I received a package from YVK, and he was kind enough to loan me his Mayhem Syndicate barrel and comp. I was very excited to shoot it, because the Mayhem comp is awesome on a Glock 19.

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The first thing I did was shoot Gold Dot 124+P in the 26 with the OEM barrel at 20 yards as a control and to look for a POI shift. First is the group from the OEM, with a bad trigger press that I called as the shot broke. Excellent accuracy which is expected in the 26.

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Then I installed the Mayhem and shot a group with the same Gold Dot load. OK, but nothing special.

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I repeated, but with Lawman 115, and got a similar group as with the Mayhem and Gold Dot. Those differences in accuracy were not that concerning, given the role of a 26, so I started shooting Lawman to assess reliability. I picked Lawman because it is snappy, which I thought would work the comp and help with reliability. Surprisingly, I had three stoppages in just a few magazines.

Then I shot a close range controllability drill, which is just five yards and you draw and shoot two to the body and two to the head on two USPSA targets. When I repeated it with the OEM barrel, I saw no difference in my times. My theory is the short slide of the 26 cycles so fast, the comp just doesn't add much. So, my conclusion is the comp really makes the 19 shoot like a more capable pistol, but the 26 is better for me with an OEM barrel and no comp.

(Here is that same drill, shot with the OEM barrel.)


https://youtu.be/UEtc9dOjAW4

[Blades]

So Glock needs to make a MOS 26x? :)

[Clusterfrack]

... When I repeated it with the OEM barrel, I saw no difference in my times. My theory is the short slide of the 26 cycles so fast, the comp just doesn't add much. So, my conclusion is the comp really makes the 19 shoot like a more capable pistol, but the 26 is better for me with an OEM barrel and no comp.


Looks like you've saved some of us some $$$. Thanks GJM.

[45dotACP]

Looks like you've saved some of us some $$$. Thanks GJM.Not all of us.

I don't have a G26.

Yet.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[TCB]

I had a similar experience with my Mayhem barrel/comp on a G19 comparing it with a G45. It was ok on the 19 but really excelled on the 45…didn’t make enough of a difference performance wise on the 19 for me with the 147gr I use.

[JCN]

GJM
YVK

I can potentially explain these findings. I think that the observations at the split speeds with that compensator are valid.

1. The Mayhem is more of a muzzle brake than a compensator with more side port area than up port. For short barrel 9mm, that is going to matter for its effectiveness.

2. The G26 grip length also limits recoil control at speed for most people. At 0.26-0.30s splits like shown in the video, the compensator isn’t going to come into play. And it’s going to be hard to split faster without a full grip.

So those are the reasons why I think a Mayhem is not a great choice for a compensator and why a traditional G26 isn’t a good host for a compensator in general.









PF disclaimer: How do I know what I know?

I have spent a lot of time with pure up-port compensators (MBX PCC, JP5 PCC, Czechmate, PMM, Radian afterburner, etc) as well as experimenting with adding side ports and changing comps on the same guns to get the direct comparison of recoil and muzzle rise characteristics.

When you address the above G26 limitations….

By adding a longer grip that allows faster splitting and recoil tracking, using an up port compensator for a weak cartridge like 9mm to really try and have some impact in muzzle rise… the G26 makes an awesome compensator host and it really, really does make a difference in shootability at sub-20 splits.

With the G26-320 I get performances on par with my competition CO gun.


https://youtu.be/CdetpT0CGEc


https://youtu.be/7Hc-FcqMGuQ

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True barrel plus PMM comp.

[YVK]

Looks like you've saved some of us some $$$. Thanks @GJM (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=410).

He surely did.

[YVK]

My theory is the short slide of the 26 cycles so fast, the comp just doesn't add much.

P365 also has a short slide and short grip, and cycles fast. In your hands does a comp on p365 offer advantage over a bare barrel?

[GJM]

P365 also has a short slide and short grip, and cycles fast. In your hands does a comp on p365 offer advantage over a bare barrel?

I like the PMM on a 365X, but it has an XL Wilson grip module.

[Backspin]

GJM, I noticed getting better times/accuracy shooting the same drills with slightly sharper recoiling 9mm (blazer 115) vs slightly underpowered 9mm (PMC 124). I attributed it to the recoil recovery / cycle speed agreeing more with my mental timing.

For those wondering about comps on slimline 9mm’s, I have limited experience with my Glock 43 and a Faxon EXOS comp (large top port w/ small side ports). I’ve also shot my buddy’s P365 w/ a PMM. Both those guns w/ a comp shot same splits and sight tracking as an uncomped G19. The comps really took out the snappiness of those smaller guns. More importantly, with my G43 the comp made it more reliable by slowing the slide just enough for my mag springs in my +2 mags with less spring tension than stock mags (which prior to the comp became unreliable). Also reduced muzzle flip seemed to help with feeding especially with hollow point rounds.

I’m kicking myself for not doing a comparison on the timer using a good two handed grip. But I did gather the following data: at 15 yards on B/C steel, I shot the G43 one handed with a thumb and middle finger grip only (to compare reliability while limp wristing). No-comp splits were low .8’s - mid .7’s. With a comp splits were mid .6’s - high .5’s. So about .15 -.20 reduction in splits with a weak grip.

In my recent comparisons with comps on a compact or full sized gun w/ standard pressure 9mm, shooting predictively on open targets the comps seemed to help a little bit. But shooting reactively on smaller targets (5” circles at 7 yards) the differences were not as apparent.

[JCN]

P365 also has a short slide and short grip, and cycles fast. In your hands does a comp on p365 offer advantage over a bare barrel?

I think if you used a mainly side port compensator on a P365 you’d have less benefit as well. And part of the compensator benefit can also be just the sheer weight on the end of the barrel.

The Armory Craft compensator is pure up port but it’s steel and HEAVY.

That makes it more effective than the PMM.

Backspin

Also keep in mind that faster splits aren’t the goal (or the measuring stick) of a compensator

So it shouldn’t be the metric by which a compensator effectiveness is judged.

It’s a little complex, but an effective compensator also requires a matching recoil spring weight to ammo and allows the shooter to MORE ACCURATELY HIT AT SPEED by slowing the slide and reducing the climb so the dot is easier to track.

If you’re missing any of those parts (like recoil spring too aggressive), you can actually make it harder to split accurately with a compensator. If you don’t have the timing or vision to take advantage of it, also won’t see much benefit.









How do I know what I know?

This is mainly from my Czechmate versus Shadow 2 experimentation on handguns. Plus some experimentation with P365/XL, ports and comps.

My first bounce splits with a Shadow 2 are 0.15 seconds and that’s good for 7-10 yard alphas.

The first bounce splits with a Czechmate with stock up port compensator and recoil spring are super fast like 0.09 or less and I can’t see that fast and time that accurately so to get the same accuracy, I actually had to slow down with the compensator. So I had to slow down to 2nd or 3rd bounce to get the same accuracy and my splits were in the 0.22 range!

GJM it wasn’t that the compensator wasn’t doing anything, it’s that it was doing too much and I couldn’t take advantage of it. Akai talks about that as well in his compensator video.

So I actually had to make the compensator LESS effective to take advantage of it. I drilled side ports in the compensator and experimented with recoil spring weight to maximize dwell time at the POA nadir.

And Lo and behold, it became easier to split more accurately at speed and now the one bounce Czechmate speed was 0.12-0.14 and it performed better than the Shadow 2….





Cliff’s notes: Compensators do stuff. But it’s more complicated than just slapping bubba parts on guns and hoping it’s better. It takes some planning and thought about what the gun is doing and what you want it to do.


Some contextual videos:

I can split down to 0.12s with a stock P365 slide and barrel.


https://youtu.be/jVr0NWdz-Ww

So a compensator isn’t going to split faster than that.

But watch how softly and flatly I can get a well tuned compensator system to dwell at the zero… soooo much time to see and trigger.


https://youtu.be/S8t_tpuUUAw

And if you want more evidence of how a compensator affects both rise and dwell, here is the slow motion of all the different P365 compensator and port options including a home brew XL porting job.


https://youtu.be/lF4DYb1iYwo


Note how I chose to put all the slides on the heaviest and largest frame I had available to me at the time to really try and be able to take advantage of the slide mechanics. Then it’s easy to put a shorter grip on it and see the loss attributable to the grip.

But not misattribute to the slide.

The real beauty of the compensators is on the first bounce tracking. If you’re not shooting at that speed, the benefit will be much more muted. And the benefit will be in the ease of dot tracking, not in the speed.

So any assessment of effectiveness HAS to have an accuracy component and not just speed.

[Doc_Glock]

So does this make a chopped G19 continue to be preferable to a milled G26?

I have to admit I have totally lost interest in the G26 since chopping a few G19s shorter.

[YVK]

I did a little testing of my own today. Different tasks than what GJM did and, obviously, a different shooter. I shot Garcia and Bill drills. I tried to video the Garcia dot drills but the resolution turned out too crappy to post. The Bill Drills really need to be seen from inside the lens so one can see the sight's behavior. At the end, first, I am keeping the comp. Second, no malfunctions at all with four different ammo types, including 115 Lawman. Third, the first two Garcia dot runs with the comp [I shot without the comp first] went two inches low because tension that need to control a regular gun was too excessive for a comped gun.

[JCN]

Third, the first two Garcia dot runs with the comp [I shot without the comp first] went two inches low because tension that need to control a regular gun was too excessive for a comped gun.

The alternate hypothesis is that with the comp the recoil spring is now too aggressive and driving the nose down too far.

I don’t change my grip or tension for a comped gun or not.

I don’t know if you saw my wife’s comped gun video when it was oversprung and then the difference in the zero dwell point when the spring was appropriately lightened but I can dig them up if you like.

[YVK]

Maybe. The alternative is that I was tensing up because I shot faster because the dot was there already. I have a special target setup to test muzzle dip and rise, will test at some point.

[JCN]

Maybe. The alternative is that I was tensing up because I shot faster because the dot was there already. I have a special target setup to test muzzle dip and rise, will test at some point.

Or you could just put your phone on the side and review video in slow motion afterwards.

Will tell you what you need to know.

Picture worth a thousands words and all that.