Utlity of Noise Alarms

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Recently, in our area, a guy was following an older woman in a store parking lot. She triggered one of those personal siren alarms and he left the scene. My wife was interested as she does carry an OC (no chance for a gun with her). Now, I've been through all the usual arguments, challenge the guy - help police, etc. Deploy the OC if he is a real threat, etc.

But is there any experience with these personal alarms? I could see in the big parking lots of our rather nice stores, such a noise maker bringing unwanted attention. On a trail with lions, tigers and bears, not so much. I did read a story once that in Chicago, IIRC, a little girl was kidnapped, she trigger her alarm, no one helped, and some neighbor buried the alarm to shut down the noise. She was killed.

We do get the guys who run out of money for gas in the parking lots once in awhile. They home in on the elderly or Moms with kids.

[RevolverRob]

Caveat - I am an asshole -

I have never once looked up at an alarm in a parking lot and thought, "Someone might be in distress!" - I flat ignore alarms/sirens/car horns - because they go off all the time in parking lots/garages/streets all the time.

I'd probably be more apt to look up at an airhorn screaming than a car alarm.

Proactive carry and deployment of MUC and POM would be my strong preference to an alarm, but I mean an airhorn in one hand and POM in the other might work decently well.

[45dotACP]

I just kinda figured I'd be screaming anyways so the personal alarm never registered to me.

I figured blood curdling shrieking is likely to get more attention in a parking lot than some electronic noisemakers.

Whether anyone pays attention...well I figure it'll at least end up in someone's camera phone filed under "skinny dude in a berserker rage"

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[Crashpad]

I have friends that live in urban environments that have made good use out of the audible alarms. Most also carry OC and some have more options. I don't think that the alarm is so much an attractant for help but more a reason for bad guy to deselect that person and move along. Some may take it as a signal to get violent faster but the only person I know who has had that happen was ready for it. She was prepared and capable of responding with violence and he left quickly, bleeding all the way to the ER where he was arrested.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Screaming and yelling like a mad person may not be an attractive option for an older woman:

1. They may feel inhibited in such for various social reasons. Or they don't have the vocal power.

2. OC is carried but reluctant to deploy because of side effects.

[45dotACP]

Screaming and yelling like a mad person may not be an attractive option for an older woman:

1. They may feel inhibited in such for various social reasons. Or they don't have the vocal power.

2. OC is carried but reluctant to deploy because of side effects.

1. Social inhibitions would probably prevent them from using an electronic screecher too no?. If you don't have the vocal power to scream, but you otherwise would then perhaps said alarm might help...but then so would pepper spray. Would you use that first, then hit the alarm? Or vice versa.

2. If the side effects of a pepper spray exposure might hurt and yeah that would suck, but a loud and ear piercing alarm will be uncomfortable too.

As for medical issues, I believe most manufacturers claim their product is a known bronchodilator.

Not saying you should use it for your asthma attacks, but you use bronchodilators to reverse asthma attacks.

Now there's a nasty inhaler...

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[P30]

One thing comes to my mind:

In Germany, police recommends the defender to call the aggressor "Sie" and not "Du". "Sie" is the 2nd person pronoun for a stranger and it is usually polite. "Du" is for a familiar person, e.g. a friend, but it can also express that you don't have respect for the other person. Reason: Observers should know that the defender is attacked by a stranger, it's not a kind of family dispute. Normally, I would not intervene in a family dispute. How can you make this unambiguous in English for every observer? I think this is also important.

[Default.mp3]

Caveat - I am an asshole -

I have never once looked up at an alarm in a parking lot and thought, "Someone might be in distress!" - I flat ignore alarms/sirens/car horns - because they go off all the time in parking lots/garages/streets all the time.

I'd probably be more apt to look up at an airhorn screaming than a car alarm.
https://i.imgur.com/zGR2qaU.png

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Total speculation but just my opinion that triggering a button would be easier for an older woman than personally screaming. Also, they might be scared of OC. Just a guess, empirical question. The older women I know here are tough old ones, though. Ex-military, LEO wives, etc.

[CleverNickname]

How can you make this unambiguous in English for every observer? I think this is also important.
Yell "That's my purse, I don't know you!" ?

[OlongJohnson]

Some people are rigging them into model rocket recovery gear to assist in locating the rocket once it's back on the ground. That's useful, if you're into that.

[theJanitor]

Does anyone have a link for suitable devices? maybe one that my 9yo could use? A loud alarm, at my son's school, ,or the kid's playground would certainly not be a noise easily ignored.

Now, if you gave my Chinese wife a bullhorn, you'd have to register her as a weapon off mass descruction. She's loud AF in normal conversation.

[45dotACP]

One thing comes to my mind:

In Germany, police recommends the defender to call the aggressor "Sie" and not "Du". "Sie" is the 2nd person pronoun for a stranger and it is usually polite. "Du" is for a familiar person, e.g. a friend, but it can also express that you don't have respect for the other person. Reason: Observers should know that the defender is attacked by a stranger, it's not a kind of family dispute. Normally, I would not intervene in a family dispute. How can you make this unambiguous in English for every observer? I think this is also important.Typically "cocksucking motherfucker" is what I prefer in English for unfamiliar acquaintances laying hands on me.

If my kids are shouting it, it's liable to get attention.

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[willie]

I urge my wife to take note of derelicts in the area that she plans to shop and to cancel the store visit if she sees such. Also I pointed out that parking in the middle or back of a large parking lot is unwise. About alarms. I carry an old school police whistle. Years ago I put one on my key ring to use as a signaling device while playing along field and stream.

[hiro]

Typically "cocksucking motherfucker" is what I prefer in English for unfamiliar acquaintances laying hands on me

Channeling Al Swearengen?

[Hambo]

I urge my wife to take note of derelicts in the area that she plans to shop and to cancel the store visit if she sees such. Also I pointed out that parking in the middle or back of a large parking lot is unwise. About alarms. I carry an old school police whistle. Years ago I put one on my key ring to use as a signaling device while playing along field and stream.

Tactics my wife has used successfully:
-Reaching for the gun in her purse (but not drawing it) while yelling sternly, "Get the fuck away from me!"
-Asking some construction guys to walk her to her car because there was some asshole hanging around the doors to the grocery store.
-Having her armed private security contractor (me) with her.

[hufnagel]

If she wanted to add it as another layer to her personal defense, I don't see the harm. She could push the button at an inkling of trouble, and see if there's a response. Continued approach she could go to OC.

[feudist]

Some people are rigging them into model rocket recovery gear to assist in locating the rocket once it's back on the ground. That's useful, if you're into that.

My mind leapt to the vision of using model rockets as personal protection RPGs, with fish hook barbed points releasing OC and shrieking alarms locating the offender for the coppers.
It...was kinda cool.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I bought a couple from Midway as I had some store credit with them. Can't hurt to put on the keychain. The women have Sabre pepper sprays already.

[RevolverRob]

I bought a couple from Midway as I had some store credit with them. Can't hurt to put on the keychain. The women have Sabre pepper sprays already.

It be worth considering a switch to POM. I find POM easier to carry and easy to deploy. My wife stuck Sabre in her purse and there it sat. POM on the other hand goes into her pocket quite frequently.

I'm working through some of the same concerns about employing OC with a neighbor who was recently attacked by an off-leash pitbull in a park.

"I didn't spray the dog, because I didn't want to get hit with spray or have my dog get hit with spray."

She's a very smart and rational woman, once I explained she can decontaminate her dog by pouring some milk on him that helped. As for her, splash back is probably limited due to deployment distance (short), direction of aim (down), and spray type (stream). But giving her a POM inert trainer, a few targets to hit, and a fan for some wind demonstrates this for her in a concrete way.

[UNK]

Screaming and yelling like a mad person may not be an attractive option for an older woman:

1. They may feel inhibited in such for various social reasons. Or they don't have the vocal power.

2. OC is carried but reluctant to deploy because of side effects.

It may be that a class in your area that has a section that covers spray and situational awareness maybe they would let her sit in for just that part? SouthNarc was willing to do that for one of my female family members although in the end she didnt go.
Have you tried working with her with one of those water filled trainers?
I can fully understand why someone, especially female or eldery, would be reluctant to be exposed to it.
Heres a visual of how it works hope it helps


https://youtu.be/pz3zzn3Vlbs

[feudist]

Maybe test a person's capacity for tolerating OC by doing a light "Eye Wipe"? That was how we introduced it to in-service training in the 90s.
It avoids the full on effect of being sprayed and still gauges if they're panic prone.
We certainly had a few people who refused to deploy it after that for fear of backspray.
If they pass that, then spray an area and let them walk toward it until it hits their lungs so they experience that effect, but they're still in control of the amount of exposure.
They will then know that a) it's pretty effective and b) it's not going to kill them if they breathe some.
By this incremental approach you sidestep the perhaps overblown fear of the effect of the spray thus enabling them to prime themselves emotionally to employ it.
I think joining the 2 devices has a lot of merit, especially for women. The spray to break up the assault and the alarm to make the attacker believe he is on a clock.
A device that combined OC, an earsplitting alarm and a blinding light/impact device would seem to be a logical weapon design.
Aim a small baton flashlight at a suspected threat and light it up. If the threat advances the second triggering would spray OC and set off the screecher. If it turns into a FUT, start whaling him about the head and shoulders with the bezel.
Hell, add an aiming laser too as an added deterrent. I've sparkled many an idjit with the TASER that acted like the laser actually hurt.

[RevolverRob]

Out of curiosity, since wind is a "problem" I went out to my garage with an inert POM trainer and turned on an old desk fan that has one speed - high. It blows hard enough to blow an uncinched hood off my head. Standing three feet from it, I raised the canister to eye level (no arm extension) and I shot a stream over the fan, under the fan, and through the fan. I caught a few drops of splash back. Might be enough to tingle the skin with real spray. Nothing close to a full dose of spray however.

Unless you're standing directly in the path of a hurricane, in a wind tunnel, or maybe on a day with 40mph gusts with a stream of spray, I'm not sure how you get enough dose back. Can it happen? Sure. But it's more likely with a cone spray, as opposed to a strong stream.

[Oldherkpilot]

Channeling Al Swearengen?

My initial thought weras: what does this have to do a rather svelte line of aircraft? Google sorted me out, Deadwood was a great series. What a difference an E makes.

[45dotACP]

Channeling Al Swearengen?Basically always lol

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[Glenn E. Meyer]

This discussion made us check our OC spray expiration dates. Oops, 1/2022. Thus off to the LGS for new ones. You can't mail order in NYS because that would cause rioting, murder, sedition, dogs and cats living together and other mayhem. Wife pointed that out. She has take some H2H but at our age, distance tools are better. Not a gun person though.

[UNK]

Maybe test a person's capacity for tolerating OC by doing a light "Eye Wipe"? That was how we introduced it to in-service training in the 90s.
It avoids the full on effect of being sprayed and still gauges if they're panic prone.
We certainly had a few people who refused to deploy it after that for fear of backspray.
If they pass that, then spray an area and let them walk toward it until it hits their lungs so they experience that effect, but they're still in control of the amount of exposure.
They will then know that a) it's pretty effective and b) it's not going to kill them if they breathe some.
By this incremental approach you sidestep the perhaps overblown fear of the effect of the spray thus enabling them to prime themselves emotionally to employ it.
I think joining the 2 devices has a lot of merit, especially for women. The spray to break up the assault and the alarm to make the attacker believe he is on a clock.
A device that combined OC, an earsplitting alarm and a blinding light/impact device would seem to be a logical weapon design.
Aim a small baton flashlight at a suspected threat and light it up. If the threat advances the second triggering would spray OC and set off the screecher. If it turns into a FUT, start whaling him about the head and shoulders with the bezel.
Hell, add an aiming laser too as an added deterrent. I've sparkled many an idjit with the TASER that acted like the laser actually hurt.

Great post! I was just discussing spray with a person who has had it as part of a class but they never used actual spray. We discussed they actually need to experience it this seems to be a very good approach. Ill be passing this along now I need to find a link to the cleaner or deactivator for the spray.

[HCM]

It may be that a class in your area that has a section that covers spray and situational awareness maybe they would let her sit in for just that part? SouthNarc was willing to do that for one of my female family members although in the end she didnt go.
Have you tried working with her with one of those water filled trainers?
I can fully understand why someone, especially female or eldery, would be reluctant to be exposed to it.
Heres a visual of how it works hope it helps


https://youtu.be/pz3zzn3Vlbs

A video of how it works if it works.

Don’t expect that sort of reaction / effectiveness in all applications.

[DDTSGM]

I'm a streamer guy.

I think one of the primary mistakes folks make when using OC is that they use too little. You want a good 2 to 3 seconds on target, drench the assailant.

Another primary error is showing the OC before deploying and/or giving a warning. Ducking your head, closing your eyes, and holding your breath are all potential defensive measures which can be put into play if the assailant has warning.

These are two of the high points discussed with ladies in convenience stores during my five-minute 'Have you ever had any training with that keychain OC' course. Coming to a quick shop parking lot near you.