Level 2 "Concealment" holsters

[theJanitor]

Looks like I might need, in a hurry, level 2 "concealment" holsters for a 1911, and a 365. anyone got thoughts on that?

[HeavyDuty]

Would ALS with a thumb guard suffice?

[theJanitor]

Would ALS with a thumb guard suffice?

To be honest, I don't know. Our county is trying to adopt rules making carrying a pistol nearly impossible, and this is one of them

[HeavyDuty]

To be honest, I don't know. Our county is trying to adopt rules making carrying a pistol nearly impossible, and this is one of them

I bet something like a 637x or 737x with your choice of belt attachment and a 6006 ALS guard would make them happy. That was my choice when I was carrying in the hood and was more concerned about snatches than absolute concealment. They are economical, too.

6378 and 7378 used to come with both paddle and belt loop, but I prefer the lower profile alternate belt loops on these.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1338199109

https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-6006-1-guard-6377-Holsters/dp/B005M91MWY

[TheNewbie]

I think the ALS would be at least a short term answer, if not the answer.

[HeavyDuty]

This is the belt loop I prefer on these:

https://lapolicegear.com/sl-565bl-high-ride-loop.html?sku=565BL

[Le Français]

Some makers offer kydex OWB pancake holsters with a thumb break made from the same material as IWB soft loops. That would probably conceal better than the ALS holsters, which are great for showing off a massive "gun tumor" and looking like a cop.

This is one option (I have nothing to do with this company and I don't know if it sucks).

http://www.statureman.com/2012/03/thumb-break.html

[theJanitor]

thanks, Guys. but does a pancake with a thumb break qualify as level2? I thought that meant I had to defeat two mechanisms to draw

[entropy]

I always thought “2” was a basic form of retention. ie; thumbreak. The first level is the holster itself.

I could be wrong tho so....

[theJanitor]

I always thought “2” was a basic form of retention. ie; thumbreak. The first level is the holster itself.

I could be wrong tho so....

this is what I thought. Carrying "mexican" was level 0, any holster was level 1, and a thumb break or similar is level 2. But I don't know if the city agrees. If I can get away with a thumb break, it's easy

[msstate56]

? I thought that meant I had to defeat two mechanisms to draw

That would be a level 3.

ALS only, SLS hood only, thumb break are level 2.

Level 1 is basically friction fit.

[msstate56]

Not to blow your OPSEC, but what kind of jurisdiction is regulating what level of holster you have to use? I get “must be carried in a holster or bag.” But requiring essentially a LE duty holster for concealed carry?

[guymontag]

Would the GLS from Safariland qualify for your needs?

[RevolverRob]

You're already rocking a Level 2.

Level 1 - The gun is concealed.

Level 2 - You aren't actively using your pistol to pistol whip everyone on the county board for this bullshit.

[msstate56]

Would the GLS from Safariland qualify for your needs?

This was my suggestion as well

[HeavyDuty]

Not a fan of GLS. It’s designed to be defeated by a shooting grip - yours or anyone else’s.

[theJanitor]

Not a fan of GLS. It’s designed to be defeated by a shooting grip - yours or anyone else’s.

For Concealed Cxarry, I think that's fine

[guymontag]

Not a fan of GLS. It’s designed to be defeated by a shooting grip - yours or anyone else’s.

We aren’t really talking duty holsters in this thread, OP needs something for concealed carry and in a hurry. I don’t criticize DSG or JM on their IWB lines because their holsters don’t have thumb breaks or the ALS/SLS system…

ETA: It sounds like the OP will have to find out what the bureaucrats determine is Level 2, GLS may or may not qualify - hell they could even determine Level 2 means you need to defeat an ALS and an SLS or something along those lines. Either way good luck OP.

[HeavyDuty]

We aren’t really talking duty holsters in this thread, OP needs something for concealed carry and in a hurry. I don’t criticize DSG or JM on their IWB lines because their holsters don’t have thumb breaks or the ALS/SLS system…

ETA: It sounds like the OP will have to find out what the bureaucrats determine is Level 2, GLS may or may not qualify - hell they could even determine Level 2 means you need to defeat an ALS and an SLS or something along those lines. Either way good luck OP.

I don’t criticize them, either - and I carry daily in JMCK gear. But they aren’t intended to be retention holsters, whereas Safariland at least hints that’s what GLS does. That’s why I suggested ALS plus ALS Guard.

[theJanitor]

I ordered the ALS plus the guard as HD linked, AND the GLS. :cool: I'm still looking for the better/best options

[03RN]

I would just go with a thumb break holster. Either iwb or pancake if it needs to be concealed.

[03RN]

Does the new rule/law say whether or not you have to utilize the retention?
95016

Just install a hammer thong, then don't use it??

[theJanitor]

From Safariland website:


RETENTION LEVELS EXPLAINED

For years Safariland has set the standard of how firearms are retained within a holster. For Safariland duty holsters, these standards are defined as Retention Levels, rating them as I, II, III, IV. Each level subjects the holster with its single or combination of security mechanism and type of firearm release to specific tests that are reflective of the type of force expected of an adversary trying to release the firearm from the holster.

For each level, a primary securing device is defined and then additional security mechanisms are added to reach each subsequent retention level. A simplified way to think of retention is by the number of actions required to release the weapon. For example, a Level I requires the operator pull back on the ALS is a single action to release the weapon. At Level II, the operator must push down on the strap button then flip the SLS over (2 actions) before the weapon is free. At Level III, the added actions of LI and LII is a total of 3 actions. Remember after each action the pull test is performed and the holster must pass that test to be rated the designated level.

[msstate56]

Safariland can name their levels however they want. But having used all the above systems- I think it’s a bit nitpickey to say the ALS only is level 1, but the SLS only is level 2. Either way, it looks like your local regulatory officials will have to clarify what they define as a “type 2.” Good luck.

[theJanitor]

Does the new rule/law say whether or not you have to utilize the retention?

Just install a hammer thong, then don't use it??

That’s a good point. I’m trying to cover all the bases so they can’t F me. I’ll deal with the extra gear later

[jnc36rcpd]

While we could debate the wisdom of retention in concealed carry holsters or whether Safariland's system should be considered industry-standard or somehow codified, I think this is more about conforming to legislative stupidity than anything else. Regards from Maryland.

[HeavyDuty]

I never realized levels weren’t standardized, I’ve always followed Safariland’s description since they are the big boys. Basically, a level for each separate type of retention. Thumbbreak = 1, ALS = 1, ALS plus 6006 = 2, ALS plus SLS = 2, etc.

[GJM]

For your consideration:

95038

[theJanitor]

For your consideration:

95038

I've already rigged up shock cord loops on the AIWB rigs as a test, but reholstering with cords hanging nearby is giving me the willies

[Chuck Whitlock]

From Safariland website:


RETENTION LEVELS EXPLAINED

For years Safariland has set the standard of how firearms are retained within a holster. For Safariland duty holsters, these standards are defined as Retention Levels, rating them as I, II, III, IV. Each level subjects the holster with its single or combination of security mechanism and type of firearm release to specific tests that are reflective of the type of force expected of an adversary trying to release the firearm from the holster.

For each level, a primary securing device is defined and then additional security mechanisms are added to reach each subsequent retention level. A simplified way to think of retention is by the number of actions required to release the weapon. For example, a Level I requires the operator pull back on the ALS is a single action to release the weapon. At Level II, the operator must push down on the strap button then flip the SLS over (2 actions) before the weapon is free. At Level III, the added actions of LI and LII is a total of 3 actions. Remember after each action the pull test is performed and the holster must pass that test to be rated the designated level.


To expound somewhat:

https://inside.safariland.com/education/how-retention-testing-works/

[Chuck Whitlock]

To be honest, I don't know. Our county is trying to adopt rules making carrying a pistol nearly impossible, and this is one of them

I would attend any public meetings, and put the clowns on the spot by asking them to define what "level 2" is. Have the above to reference, and hopefully be able to publicly correct/shame.

As to quickly available, I use Midway USA's holster finder to locate in-stock holsters.

[HeavyDuty]

My guess - someone looked at what retention was required by the local LE agency and copied it.

[Shawn Dodson]

this is what I thought. Carrying "mexican" was level 0, any holster was level 1, and a thumb break or similar is level 2. But I don't know if the city agrees. If I can get away with a thumb break, it's easy
The proposed law should have a definition of what a "Level 2" holster means. I suggest you research the proposed law.

[theJanitor]

The proposed law should have a definition of what a "Level 2" holster means. I suggest you research the proposed law.

Trust me. They don't know. The rule says "Type 2", not "Level 2". The hearing discussing these rules is tomorrow, and I've already submitted my testimony.

[JTQ]

I would think a thumb break would cover Level 2.

Simply Rugged should have a Tribute for both guns https://www.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/Tribute-Leather-Concealment-Holster.cfm?item_id=158&parent=669

Tucker should offer a thumb break holster for those gun https://tuckergunleather.com/outside-the-waistband-owb-holsters/

I know you're familiar with Andrews, and they offer thumb breaks, even for the MacDaniel II.

[titsonritz]

I would attend any public meetings, and put the clowns on the spot by asking them to define what "level 2" is. Have the above to reference, and hopefully be able to publicly correct/shame.

And be prepared for ignorant retard comments like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

[FNFAN]

Fairly good article here (https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/holster-retention/) on holster retention. I've always understood retention levels as:

Level 1 = Friction only retaining the gun in the holster.
Level 2 = One device that has to be manipulated actively retaining the gun in the holster. (thumb break only, ALS only, SLS only, SERPA button)
Level 3 = Two devices that have to be manipulated actively retaining the gun in the holster. (thumb break & twist the gun, ALS/SLS, SERPA button and hood)

It's not all that clear cut or uniform. Some leather thumb break holsters also have a tension screw which serves to increase the friction. The excellent JMCK 2 kydex holster has a tension screw which, when cranked down, makes drawing pretty tough. The great old Safariland 070III had upper and lower thumb snaps and required a slight rearward movement to draw. It had a tension screw and two allen screws to lock the holster in place on your gunbelt.

[Hambo]

Presuming a thumb break meets the criteria for 1911: Galco is a quick solution while waiting for a Sherrick SIS.

[titsonritz]

[QUOTE=FNFAN;1402415]Fairly good article here (https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/holster-retention/) on holster retention. I've always understood retention levels as:

Level 1 = Friction only retaining the gun in the holster.
Level 2 = One device that has to be manipulated actively retaining the gun in the holster. (thumb break only, ALS only, SLS only, SERPA button)
Level 3 = Two devices that have to be manipulated actively retaining the gun in the holster. (thumb break & twist the gun, ALS/SLS, SERPA button and hood)

^^^That is how I have always understood it as well.

Plus Safariland had a Sentry attachment for their ALS/SLS which made it a Level 4 (not even sure if it is still a thing.)