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nwhpfan
03-25-2011, 12:32 AM
I bought a P30S 9mm last week. I've fired about 400 rounds and today while dry firing I began to get hammer follow after hammer follow. I'll call HK tomorrow and keep everyone posted. :(

F-Trooper05
03-25-2011, 12:45 AM
A guy on HKpro had the same problem not too long ago. I believe his sear was out of spec.

zml342
03-25-2011, 06:04 AM
Sorry for the newb question, but what is hammer follow? I tried to find the thread on HKPro that you were referencing, but was unable to find it. Thanks for the info!

JV_
03-25-2011, 06:09 AM
Sorry for the newb question, but what is hammer follow? I tried to find the thread on HKPro that you were referencing, but was unable to find it. Thanks for the info!

After the slide cycles, the hammer doesn't stay cocked ... it follows the slide forward.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF7NBiC6wW4

gtmtnbiker98
03-25-2011, 06:09 AM
I bought a P30S 9mm last week. I've fired about 400 rounds and today while dry firing I began to get hammer follow after hammer follow. I'll call HK tomorrow and keep everyone posted. :(
Any DIY conversions or gunsmithing? It's not common and the only instances that I've heard were direct result of "Bubba Gunsmithing." Just sayin'.

zml342
03-25-2011, 06:15 AM
After firing, the slide cycles, and the hammer doesn't stay cocked ... it follows the slide forward.

Thanks for the response. Mechnanically speaking, what could cause that to happen? I know F-Trooper mentioned the sear, is there any other possibly sources for the problem?

JV_
03-25-2011, 06:36 AM
I know F-Trooper mentioned the sear, is there any other possibly sources for the problem?

I'm not an HK armorer, but I'd imagine the sear, sear spring, and hammer would be the most likely culprits.

nwhpfan
03-25-2011, 10:20 AM
Any DIY conversions or gunsmithing? It's not common and the only instances that I've heard were direct result of "Bubba Gunsmithing." Just sayin'.

No. I just bought it.

gtmtnbiker98
03-25-2011, 11:32 AM
No. I just bought it.
New or used?

jetfire
03-25-2011, 11:35 AM
It's nothing to worry about, my Sig P250 has hammer follow. ;)

jslaker
03-25-2011, 11:58 AM
I'm not an HK armorer, but I'd imagine the sear, sear spring, and hammer would be the most likely culprits.

+ cocking piece on LEM guns since it's essentially the hammer-sear interface.

gtmtnbiker98
03-25-2011, 12:13 PM
It's nothing to worry about, my Sig P250 has hammer follow. ;)Nevermind.

GJM
03-25-2011, 12:55 PM
Did it have a Bill Springfield trigger job? After he worked on some of my pistols, both P30/S pistols would hammer follow. Took them back to him and they still followed. Sent them to HK and Travis/Sam fixed them and reported sears were rounded and springs cut.

nwhpfan
03-25-2011, 12:59 PM
For those that have asked and are interested: I bought the pistol new a little over a week ago from Law Enforcement Equipment Distributors (www.leedway.com). The pistol was orderred from HK and it took a couple weeks to arrive. This is my 5th HK over the last 13 years. Today I'm carrying my P2000 LEM 9mm. I called HK CS and had to talk them into paying for shipping-waiting for the label to arrive via email. They claimed to have never heard of the issue but I do know of one other that was posted on HKPRO. I'll keep you all posted.

JohnN
03-25-2011, 02:03 PM
Is this an LEM or SA/DA?

nwhpfan
03-25-2011, 02:35 PM
Is this an LEM or SA/DA?

P30 S, DA/SA with manual thumb safety so the desire was to carry cocked and locked.

nwhpfan
03-28-2011, 11:25 PM
*mid ordeal update* HK did send me a shipping label and my pistol is off to HK.

gtmtnbiker98
03-29-2011, 11:20 AM
*mid ordeal update* HK did send me a shipping label and my pistol is off to HK.Be sure to let us know how it turns out. At least they'll tell you what the problem is and don't be surprised if they actually call you.

nwhpfan
04-16-2011, 06:30 PM
I ordered the pistol from www.leedway.com around the end of January, first of February 2011. Leed ordered through their channels from HK. It arrive the end of March. Within about 10 days I shot it twice to total about 400 rounds of factory ammunition when I began to notice hammer follow. The pistol was never altered or worked on by me or anyone on my behalf. I contacted HK who at first wanted me to pay for the shipping to get the pistol there. I was able to persuade them to pay for shipping since it was clear the pistol was shipped with this defect. I heard from HK about 2.5 weeks later and was accused of altering the pistol. HK said the hammer and sear were "clearly chewed on." After a conversation, HK said they would take my word for it, fix the pistol and return it. I got the pistol today; the invoice says they replaced the hammer. The pistol still has hammer follow and a distinguishing mark on the outside of the hammer - it is clear it is in fact the same hammer. I will send HK an email and keep you all posted on what happens next.

fuse
04-16-2011, 08:52 PM
I ordered the pistol from www.leedway.com around the end of January, first of February 2011. Leed ordered through their channels from HK. It arrive the end of March. Within about 10 days I shot it twice to total about 400 rounds of factory ammunition when I began to notice hammer follow. The pistol was never altered or worked on by me or anyone on my behalf. I contacted HK who at first wanted me to pay for the shipping to get the pistol there. I was able to persuade them to pay for shipping since it was clear the pistol was shipped with this defect. I heard from HK about 2.5 weeks later and was accused of altering the pistol. HK said the hammer and sear were "clearly chewed on." After a conversation, HK said they would take my word for it, fix the pistol and return it. I got the pistol today; the invoice says they replaced the hammer. The pistol still has hammer follow and a distinguishing mark on the outside of the hammer - it is clear it is in fact the same hammer. I will send HK an email and keep you all posted on what happens next.

Ouch

nwhpfan
05-12-2011, 02:56 AM
After I got my pistol back and it was still broke I called HK back. You'll have to take my word for it-but I was 100% no emotion - just the facts; even though internally I was livid. I ended up speaking with a person who agreed to personally inspect the pistol once I shipped it back. I stated I didn't think I should have to pay for shipping but the person told me he didn't have the authority to pay it but offered instead to allow me to send any other HK's along I owned and stated he would personally update and replace anything that needed to be updated/replaced. So I payed for shipping and sent my pistol back to HK. Two days later the person I spoke with earlier called me on the phone. This person told me the hammer, sear spring, and hammer spring had issues and he had replaced them. He told me he would personally fire the snot out of it and hold onto for a couple days to continually try to duplicate the hammer follow to ensure it was fixed. He also told me if he couldn't fix this pistol HK would swap it for a new one. After my pistol was gone for a little over 2 weeks it was returned with a list indicating about everything was replaced except the frame, barrel, and slide. Also in the box were two brand new 12 round USP45 mags and a complete USP45 recoil assembly. When we spoke earlier I told him how I had a much fired USP45 and how the recoil spring is hard to swap and the magazines are so expensive. So far my out of pocket for the shipping is covered by the extras HK included. I haven't had a chance to shoot the pistol but so far hand cycling has not produced hammer follow. I hope this is the end and my pistol shoots fine-once I get the chance to head to the range.

LittleLebowski
05-12-2011, 12:43 PM
Sounds like you were taken well care of.


After I got my pistol back and it was still broke I called HK back. You'll have to take my word for it-but I was 100% no emotion - just the facts; even though internally I was livid. I ended up speaking with a person who agreed to personally inspect the pistol once I shipped it back. I stated I didn't think I should have to pay for shipping but the person told me he didn't have the authority to pay it but offered instead to allow me to send any other HK's along I owned and stated he would personally update and replace anything that needed to be updated/replaced. So I payed for shipping and sent my pistol back to HK. Two days later the person I spoke with earlier called me on the phone. This person told me the hammer, sear spring, and hammer spring had issues and he had replaced them. He told me he would personally fire the snot out of it and hold onto for a couple days to continually try to duplicate the hammer follow to ensure it was fixed. He also told me if he couldn't fix this pistol HK would swap it for a new one. After my pistol was gone for a little over 2 weeks it was returned with a list indicating about everything was replaced except the frame, barrel, and slide. Also in the box were two brand new 12 round USP45 mags and a complete USP45 recoil assembly. When we spoke earlier I told him how I had a much fired USP45 and how the recoil spring is hard to swap and the magazines are so expensive. So far my out of pocket for the shipping is covered by the extras HK included. I haven't had a chance to shoot the pistol but so far hand cycling has not produced hammer follow. I hope this is the end and my pistol shoots fine-once I get the chance to head to the range.

Mitchell, Esq.
05-12-2011, 01:34 PM
It still sounds like shit customer service that had to be made right by another person at the firm.

Reminds me of Kimber, except they actually fixed your problem...

YVK
05-12-2011, 03:54 PM
I've had the same experience with them; had to sent in twice, last time came back with "compensation".

JDM
05-12-2011, 11:43 PM
Whenever I have an actual problem
With a pistol ( IE something that is NOT the result of half assed manufacturing or corner cutting), I try and remember that I'm not the only one that these CS people have to deal with.

Generally speaking they deal with the "500 rounds a year lowest common demonenator" not people like us.

If i get a box stuffed with free shit and a repaired pistol, I can manage.

Remember folks, we are exceptions, not rules. These are still bottom line driven corporations we deal with.

nwhpfan
05-13-2011, 06:52 AM
So I got to shoot today. I shot 200 round of Federal American Eagle and 65 rounds of Gold Dot. No problems. I'm thinking It will turn out alright.

Mitchell, Esq.
05-13-2011, 07:07 AM
Whenever I have an actual problem
With a pistol ( IE something that is NOT the result of half assed manufacturing or corner cutting), I try and remember that I'm not the only one that these CS people have to deal with.

Generally speaking they deal with the "500 rounds a year lowest common demonenator" not people like us.

If i get a box stuffed with free shit and a repaired pistol, I can manage.

Remember folks, we are exceptions, not rules. These are still bottom line driven corporations we deal with.

For H&K money, I want someone building the guns, then going "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe...my mother says to pick THIS one...You go to the tip of the spear seal team in A-Stan. The one right next to it goes to the overweight lawyer in Fairfield County Connecticut who paid way the hell to much for this gun and should have just bought a Glock."

The corporate excuses about the 500 round per year people are excuses. I don't like them, or accept them.

ToddG
05-13-2011, 08:44 AM
The corporate excuses about the 500 round per year people are excuses. I don't like them, or accept them.

Not to speak for BOM, but I do not believe that was what he meant. And in fact, HK-USA is one of the few companies that does not have separate build or QC procedures for "civilian" guns versus "government" guns.

When you call Customer Service at a gun company, you get connected to a rep who spends his day answering questions like, "My gun won't shoot. What do you mean by rack the slide first?" or "My gun shoots low left by two feet at a range of seven yards. Do I need a new barrel?"

So when that rare bird who actually understands (a) how guns work and (b) how to shoot happens to call, the cynical CS rep is most likely going into standard operating mode and treating the customer like a moron. After fifty idiots in a row, it's probably difficult to pick up on the difference between "I'm a good shooter" and "No really, I'm a good shooter."

Should a pistol need to go back? No. But when tens of thousands of identical mechanical devices are being mass produced, some are going to be less identical than others.

Should a pistol need to go back twice? No. But at least the manufacturer has tried to make up for it with some free kit. Mistake made, apology made. That's how it works.

YVK
05-13-2011, 08:57 AM
Should a pistol need to go back twice? No. But at least the manufacturer has tried to make up for it with some free kit. Mistake made, apology made. That's how it works.

Todd, my perception - based on experience that I alluded to above - that HK as a manufacturer doesn't give a damn that gun is coming back for a second time. I don't think it is that difficult to make a provision to pick up a shipping cost for a recurrent return. I had a strong feeling that all make-up and "compensation" was done on the level of good dudes in their CS who felt for me, not because of corporate policy.

ToddG
05-13-2011, 09:31 AM
I agree in concept. But again, you're thinking from the standpoint of a one percenter. Let me tell you a true story.

Guy calls Beretta and says, "My trigger won't move!" Beretta has him ship the pistol back to us at his own expense. Gunsmith takes pistol out of box, verifies it's clear, pulls trigger multiple times without problem. Gun gets boxed back up and shipped back (at Beretta's expense) saying the gun appears to function properly.

Guy calls Beretta back and says, "My trigger still won't move!" Beretta has him ship the pistol back at Beretta's expense. Gunsmith takes pistol out of box, verifies it's clear, pulls trigger multiple times without problem. Gun gets boxed back up and shipped back at Beretta's expense saying the gun appears to function properly.

Guy calls Beretta back a third time and says, "My trigger still won't move!" Beretta has him ship the pistol back at Beretta's expense. Gunsmith takes pistol out of box, verifies it's clear, pulls trigger multiple times without problem. Gun gets boxed back up and shipped back at Beretta's expense saying the gun appears to function properly.

Guy calls back a fourth time complaining the gun is still broken. Customer Service Rep goes through all the motions again asking him if he's got the safety off, does he know which part is the trigger, etc. Finally during the course of discussion it comes to light that Guy has been installing some custom grips that his buddy down the street made for him. He put them on before trying the pistol each time, but took them off before shipping the pistol each time because he was scared they'd be stolen.

Turns out that "buddy down the street" didn't realize the trigger bar needed to move and carved the grips only to fit the trigger bar at rest. Thus, it blocked the movement of the bar and thus the trigger whenever the grip was installed. Until that final telephone call, the customer repeatedly guaranteed CS that he was not modifying the gun in any way. He explained that he'd been worried that telling the truth about the custom grips would void his warranty so he didn't disclose that.

Beretta paid overnight shipping five times just to learn that their customer was a total dipstick.

And for every HK P30 with hammer follow after a trip back to the factory, there are twenty custom grip Berettas out there.

Or my personal favorite, when I worked at SIG we had a complaint from Homeland Security that a number of P229R DAKs were shipping with the sights improperly zeroed for windage. They sent a number of guns back and sure enough the sights were off center. But according to QC records they'd all been test fired and zeroed. Major chaos erupted. New QC procedures were put in place to verify that the original procedures were being followed. Still, DHS would call us from FLETC and complain the sights were off and people were getting issued new guns that shot many inches left or right.

Finally, I was sent down to FLETC to inspect some guns. Again, plain as day, the sights weren't centered. WTF?

Eventually we discovered that one of their instructors -- you can't make this stuff up! -- was drifting the sights for students based on how they held the gun during dry fire training. Oh. Em. Gee. That's right, boys and girls. Before the gun ever fired a round at the training center this genius had been whipping out the ole sight tool and pushing sights so the gun would line up the way he thought it should in the agent's hands.

SIG spent literally thousands of dollars trying to resolve this issue and at the end of the day, the issue was a certified, experienced instructor at a major federal law enforcement training program. Once his peers learned about it, I believe he was hung from the neck by the front gate as a warning to others.

YVK
05-14-2011, 12:35 AM
These are quite entertaining stories, Todd. Beretta should've sent that guy a bill, if you ask me...

nwhpfan
08-16-2011, 06:04 PM
So I just thought I would share what's happened since my last post. About 2 days later I was shooting and such and hammer follow again. I called HK back and talked to the same guy on the phone I've talked with from the beginning. It was a semi strange conversation because he was running a band-saw at the time and actually working on guns. Anyway we talked trying to figure out the best way to deal with the situation. The guy shared some interesting insight on how "they" felt about the folks in Germany and what he personally thought of the "S" version of the P30. In the end the agreement was I would send my pistol back and he would give me a new frame with the LEM. So I sent in my pistol and about 2 days later the guy calls me back saying he's just going to send me a whole new pistol which I was fine with. So the new pistol comes; it wasn't the LEM version like we talked about and this one didn't have night sights like the one I sent back. I called the same guy at HK who apologized about the night sights and a day or so later my sights showed up in the mail. I didn't even bring up the LEM part. I called www.leedway.com; who I bought the gun from originally. The took the new unfired replacement HK sent me and I ordered an M&P9, bunch of new odds and ends gear, and still have a few bills in store credit.

fuse
08-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Wow. Way to lose a customer hk

Mitchell, Esq.
08-16-2011, 06:35 PM
So.

You were dealing with Kimber...

JodyH
08-16-2011, 07:29 PM
That sucks.
So far my H&K CS experience has been great, but then again I've only ordered parts and discussed parts replacement with them.
The rep even told me a few tricks he uses to install trigger springs.

TGS
08-16-2011, 08:45 PM
Wow, Todd.........wow. That SIG story takes the cake.

You're going to publish this shit some day, right? Its comedy value is through the roof.

1986s4
08-20-2011, 08:34 PM
My P-30 SA/DA w/decocker exhibited occasional hammer follow in dry fire. Never has it done this in live fire. I called HK and spoke to a rep. He said they were aware of the issue during dry fire but as long it wasn't happening during live fire it was OK. I decided to clean the area and parts where the hammer/sear are located. The lube there looked thick and overdone [I bought it lightly used]. After cleaning I lightly lubed with a thinner oil. I have never been able to reproduce hammer follow since.

Many years ago I had reason to send my HK USPc .45 back to HK twice. They could never fix the problems I was having so I sold the pistol. That was during their poor CS days.

M_E_
09-19-2011, 10:35 AM
Glad to hear HK took care of you. That is what you paid for when you bought your pistol!!

We just had a rifle come back to the factory where the customer is complaining that his rifle will only shoot 5 shot groups measuring 8 inches at 1,000 yards! !!! Well, that is 3/4 MOA if my math is correct. From where he lives, I would like to know where he has a place to shoot 1,000 yards where there is NO WIND. We finally had some VERY EXPENSIVE ammunition made specifically for THAT rifle. We got it to shoot 3" groups @ 1K yards with zero wind. Sent off the ammo along with his rifle WITH a test target we shot. Lets see if it's the gun or the shooter. Anyhow, we actually LOST money on that sale because of all the extra shipping costs, ammunition and so on.

The most important thing is we preformed CUSTOMER SERVICE at our expense. We need to keep our name intact at ALL COSTS!! No matter what the customer says, we will try to duplicate the issue & repair the problem. We have found that most accuracy issues are ammunition related. Green box Remington WILL NOT shoot like Black Hills Match!

We have also had customers not fully understand HOW the bolt on their rifle really functions! Had a dipstick beat the bolt with a hammer until he broke off the bolt handle!! He didn't know that the bolt had 2 positions (cock & unlock). This was on a VERY LARGE caliber gun. We fixed it, no charge. But later, we found out that this guy can break ball bearings!

deeHKman
09-26-2011, 07:48 PM
What's the final verdict on the P30s DA/SA with this hammer follow problem? I see HK is a where of some when not doing real fire and some with racking the slide. Todd has blown my mind. I could tell what was found in a BMW axle a 7 series from Germany but i have so many disclosure's i'll leave it to the imagine. A dealer brought the car to the plant they could not find the problem. People can do some crazy stuff.....

LittleLebowski
09-26-2011, 08:03 PM
What rifle is this?



Glad to hear HK took care of you. That is what you paid for when you bought your pistol!!

We just had a rifle come back to the factory where the customer is complaining that his rifle will only shoot 5 shot groups measuring 8 inches at 1,000 yards! !!! Well, that is 3/4 MOA if my math is correct. From where he lives, I would like to know where he has a place to shoot 1,000 yards where there is NO WIND. We finally had some VERY EXPENSIVE ammunition made specifically for THAT rifle. We got it to shoot 3" groups @ 1K yards with zero wind. Sent off the ammo along with his rifle WITH a test target we shot. Lets see if it's the gun or the shooter. Anyhow, we actually LOST money on that sale because of all the extra shipping costs, ammunition and so on.

The most important thing is we preformed CUSTOMER SERVICE at our expense. We need to keep our name intact at ALL COSTS!! No matter what the customer says, we will try to duplicate the issue & repair the problem. We have found that most accuracy issues are ammunition related. Green box Remington WILL NOT shoot like Black Hills Match!

We have also had customers not fully understand HOW the bolt on their rifle really functions! Had a dipstick beat the bolt with a hammer until he broke off the bolt handle!! He didn't know that the bolt had 2 positions (cock & unlock). This was on a VERY LARGE caliber gun. We fixed it, no charge. But later, we found out that this guy can break ball bearings!