Congrats Caleb! Taurus Marketing Manager

[Polecat]

This is awesome for both parties. Just saw a post on instagram! I am sure with his leadership good things to come? Taurus is on a roll lately. They just got Cody Osborne from Walther as well. They are on the move!

[RevolverRob]

jetfire

Fantastic.

We need the 856 in black DLC with front night sight, bobbed hammer, and non-twister VZs that are properly relieved for speed loaders to become an every day thing.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

What's a Taurus???

[Polecat]

What's a Taurus???

I know! But, I just bought my second older Ti UL 85 w/porting! Just to have a spare. Accurate reliable, mild recoil 11.5 oz naked without grips.

Impossible to find the .22 UL lately in either .22LR or .22wMR.

Wish they remake the no view in .32, .22 with a better grip interface, maybe not curved, but able to take the micro grip and a bit more useable “bootgrip”

[Polecat]

I think they are def trying! Quick note, that the 85 design came from a snub nose manurhin revo design!

[Cheap Shot]

Congrats and best of luck!

[45dotACP]

Congratulations Caleb! Hopefully you can bring peace to Arrakis.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[entropy]

Congratulations. A guy to make stuff happen!

[03RN]

I never thought Taurus had a problem with marketing. Just quality control.

Hopefully good leadership in one area will lead to some positive changes in others.

[Le Français]

I never thought Taurus had a problem with marketing. Just quality control.

Hopefully good leadership in one area will lead to some positive changes in others.

Yeah, I think I'm already sold on a 4" 692 .357/.38/9mm/.380 revolver. I just want it to work.

Congrats, jetfire.

[Suvorov]

So does that mean it’s now cool to own Taurus pistols and they WON’T get us killed in the streets?

[BN]

Congratulations, Jetfire.

[HeavyDuty]

Congrats, Caleb!

[Stephanie B]

What's a Taurus???

Semi-crappy and discontinued Ford sedan?

[JonInWA]

Caleb, congratulations and best of luck. Start by testing their products for durability, reliability and longevity. Also dig deep into quality control, and return of product for warranty repair, time in shop, and customer satisfaction in all aspects of Taurus ownership.

You've got your work cut out for you, buddy.

Best, Jon

[Polecat]

Hello Taurus Velo Dog🙂

[jtcarm]

Now start plotting your takeover of QC and R&D.

[MolonLabe416]

Great news.

Congrats!

Wish list: A K Frame size, six shot, Airweight, fixed sight series a la the Night Guards. Oh hell, throw in a five shot L Frame same same in 44 Special and 45 ACP.

[Noah]

Exciting news!

[OlongJohnson]

Reduce the grit size used to grit blast the metal guns at the factory. Make it a "matte" rather than a "pebbled/pulverized" finish.

Make the "concealed" hammer available to the aftermarket as a drop-in part, the way S&W makes MIM hammers available as spare parts.

I'm sure you know the rest better than I do.

[jetfire]

This is awesome for both parties. Just saw a post on instagram! I am sure with his leadership good things to come? Taurus is on a roll lately. They just got Cody Osborne from Walther as well. They are on the move!

A big part of why I took this job is I believe in the team that Bret is putting together here. We have real serious shooters on staff that are dedicated to bringing the product line to where it should be.

[jh9]

Make the "concealed" hammer available to the aftermarket as a drop-in part, the way S&W makes MIM hammers available as spare parts.

Yeah. That exactly. Honestly spare parts available at Midway or Brownells like S&W parts are would make Taurus a lot more attractive.

It's one thing to take a chance and find out something needs work. It's another thing if scrounging parts is a massive pain in the ass. Just so you have any option other than the factory taking a second crack at fucking it up. Especially with how much of an increasing pain in the ass it is to ship firearms.

A custom shop or second-tier product line that does some minor work competently with another layer of QC would be nice. Even if it's Ruger-like in that they're just factory-modified short runs rather than a la carte true custom pieces.

[TheNewbie]

Taurus makes almost exactly what I want in a lot of guns. Close enough for the most part that I won’t complain.


If their durability and QC were rock solid, then I would have no issues toting one. At least the PT 92 decocker/safety operates the proper way and their revolver don’t have holes in them.

Their M82 would be a cool revolver for example.

[TheNewbie]

A big part of why I took this job is I believe in the team that Bret is putting together here. We have real serious shooters on staff that are dedicated to bringing the product line to where it should be.


Thank you for your efforts and the efforts of the team.

Hopefully this will include autos and revolvers.

[LHS]

A big part of why I took this job is I believe in the team that Bret is putting together here. We have real serious shooters on staff that are dedicated to bringing the product line to where it should be.

With absolutely zero sarcasm, I wish you the best of luck with that. It would be awesome if y'all can pull it off.

[Lester Polfus]

I dare you to make this the slogan:


Taurus: It'll Be Different This Time™

In all seriousness, I'd love to see Taurus become a serious contender. They make some guns that nobody else makes, and I'd love to see them made better.

[Trooper224]

If you can turn Taurus into something other than the raving pile of dung it's always been, I'd lay bets on you parting the Red Sea.

Congrats and good fortune, sincerely.

[Buckeye63]

Maybe Ruger will follow suit .. maybe up their game on QC with their revolvers.. not all consumers are gunsmiths ….
Id like to own a SP101 with a un canted barrel…

Seems like QC has went south in the firearms industry as a whole .. I have had a heck of a time with Charter Arms as of late ..

[Totem Polar]

Their M82 would be a cool revolver for example.

A 3” M82 done to NY-1 spec (DAO, …hell it’s already matte, so that’s about it. 3” and round off the butt. And tune it to “executive” specs and make sure it works. Done, boom.) would be very cool.

[Clusterfrack]

I dare you to make this the slogan:

Taurus: It'll Be Different This Time™

In all seriousness, I'd love to see Taurus become a serious contender. They make some guns that nobody else makes, and I'd love to see them made better.


If you can turn Taurus into something other than the raving pile of dung it's always been, I'd lay bets on you parting the Red Sea.

Congrats and good fortune, sincerely.

jetfire, congrats. You're a great choice for the job, and Taurus is lucky to have you.

I really shouldn't have a dog in the fight because I don't care about revolvers. But I do care about good engineering and quality control, so here are my thoughts:

1. Taurus has a poor reputation for QC. I discovered that some Taurus guns are built with a "Zero Tolerance Policy (https://www.taurususa.com/component/search/?searchword=zero%20tolerance&searchphrase=all&Itemid=182)" with the claim of "Zero Tolerance standard-in design, fabrication, fit and performance. Meaning, there is simply no tolerance for parts that do not perform as if someone's life depends on them". That's interesting, and I bet you have some plans to make this into an effective marketing strategy, because it isn't. To me, it only underscores the difficulty Taurus has had in making quality guns.
2. Taurus has some bafflingly stupid gun designs that (for many) taint the entire product line. E.g. the Curve (https://www.firearmreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Taurus-Curve-Front-and-Side-View.jpg) and Raging Judge.
3. S&W, despite much greater resources, has spotty product quality and an apparent inability to become a true leader in the firearms industry. IMO, there isn't a single thing S&W makes that another company doesn't do better.

So, I think there's a great opportunity for Taurus, and I hope you succeed in making it happen.

[Cory]

One of my family's legacy firearms passed down to my parents is a Taurus 22lr revolver.

Outside of that older revolver, I've only heard of quality issues with Taurus. I've openly discouraged others from purchasing them when asked. The redeming thing I've heard about is their customer service and warranty stuff.

If they're going to be filling their team with guys like Caleb who are serious shooters, and deeply invested in the shooting community... I'll shut up on the hate and see what kind of changes come from Taurus. I'd be thrilled to see them gain a serious hard use/duty reputation. I know my grandfather thought of his Taurus that way, and trusted it. I'd love the name to be seen that way by the blue collar crowd that makes up tge bulk of Taurus users.

Best of luck to Caleb and Taurus.

[RevolverRob]

A 3” M82 done to NY-1 spec (DAO, …hell it’s already matte, so that’s about it. 3” and round off the butt. And tune it to “executive” specs and make sure it works. Done, boom.) would be very cool.

Not saying the hiring of jetfire influenced me at all - but they make a 856, 3", Ultralite, with Ameriglo front sight. To be the perfect .38 Special carry gun it needs only:

1) To work
2) A bobbed hammer
3) A decent rear sight

[Stephanie B]

2. Taurus has some bafflingly stupid gun designs that (for many) taint the entire product line. E.g. the Curve (https://www.firearmreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Taurus-Curve-Front-and-Side-View.jpg) and Raging Judge.
3. S&W, despite much greater resources, has spotty product quality and an apparent inability to become a true leader in the firearms industry.

Don't forget the View.

[Paul D]

Congrats! Taurus is lucky to have a guy like Calab who has a good understanding of the American market.

What Taurus has to realize is that they are not:

Glock or Sig Sauer: huge gun companies with huge military and police contracts; or

Walther or CZ or H&K or Beretta: Old European companies with a long tradition of quality and pedigree

They can be the next S&W or Springfield: not super innovative but provide good enough products for that less than $500 target. If they can be just a little more creative (without cringy) and more gooder with their QC, and make stuff in the US: They could be very successful.

I think the market for new gun owners who balk at a >$700 gun is there for Taurus to snag up. When I was getting into guns in the early 90's, Taurus was on my shopping list. Their guns were conventional and familiar (especially their copies of the J frame and Beretta 92) and affordable for a poor college student.

[thatguybryan]

Dude, congrats! It was nice meeting you at NRA this year!

P.S., the executive grade that I checked out afterward was entirely due to your review. Looking forward to seeing what comes next from Taurus, as I feel it is a step in the right direction.

[JJN]

There seems to be some space in the market for a turnkey sock drawer gun. Maybe a 3" 856 or 82 with lasergrips, paired with a lockbox and a box of Winchester Train/Defend. You might even think about a non-gun channel of advertising. Maybe a Chip and Joanna Gains designed lockbox, or spreads in knitting magazines. Call it the Dilettante Diva Defender market segment. Maybe even co-opt some military jargon, like "Inactive Ready Reserve," signifying a gun suitable for long-term ready-state storage.

[TheNewbie]

Congrats! Taurus is lucky to have a guy like Calab who has a good understanding of the American market.

What Taurus has to realize is that they are not:

Glock or Sig Sauer: huge gun companies with huge military and police contracts; or

Walther or CZ or H&K or Beretta: Old European companies with a long tradition of quality and pedigree

They can be the next S&W or Springfield: not super innovative but provide good enough products for that less than $500 target. If they can be just a little more creative (without cringy) and more gooder with their QC, and make stuff in the US: They could be very successful.

I think the market for new gun owners who balk at a >$700 gun is there for Taurus to snag up. When I was getting into guns in the early 90's, Taurus was on my shopping list. Their guns were conventional and familiar (especially their copies of the J frame and Beretta 92) and affordable for a poor college student.


Excellent post and advice to Taurus.


I actually think they have so pretty good design ideas now. A catalog clean up and a serious focus on consistency and quality control would be enough to make me happy.

[GJM]

I am hoping he get Taurus squared away ASAP, and then signs on at S&W, as they could seriously use a revolver guy to get them back on track.

[Duelist]

Semi-crappy and discontinued Ford sedan?

I have some very good memories of a particular Taurus sedan and a 19yo coed …

[Polecat]

Don't forget the View.

The view is a great design, poor caliber choice, offer it in .22 or .32 and it is a winner.

[wmu12071]

I think we need a "modern fighting revolver" with a bull on the side. Another idea, collect some of these coins and patches with a legit off the shelf Taurus.

[jetfire]

The view is a great design, poor caliber choice, offer it in .22 or .32 and it is a winner.

I was just having this very conversation that the View would actually be awesome if it was a 22 Mag

[Totem Polar]

I was just having this very conversation that the View would actually be awesome if it was a 22 Mag

Aside from needing an unholy marriage of the stressfire reload and Bruce Lee’s 1-inch punch to eject the empties, I think you’re on to something.

I’d dig a .22LR version, myself. In case anyone important (who might be tagged) is listening.

:)

[Clusterfrack]

jetfire, revolver idiot question: is there a reason other than cost-cutting that 9mm and .22 revolvers have .357 length cylinders and frames?

[jetfire]

jetfire, revolver idiot question: is there a reason other than cost-cutting that 9mm and .22 revolvers have .357 length cylinders and frames?

Not really, no. It's perfectly possible to build a revolver with a frame window appropriate to the cartridge length of a smaller round. The problem is that it would cost a lot of money to alter the production process; since when a steel frame J-frame is born, it doesn't know if it's going to be a 327 Fed Mag or a 357 Magnum, for example.

If anyone company could pull it off and make it affordable, it would need to be a company that controls every step of their manufacturing process, from forgings to MIM...

[Clusterfrack]

Not really, no. It's perfectly possible to build a revolver with a frame window appropriate to the cartridge length of a smaller round. The problem is that it would cost a lot of money to alter the production process; since when a steel frame J-frame is born, it doesn't know if it's going to be a 327 Fed Mag or a 357 Magnum, for example.

If anyone company could pull it off and make it affordable, it would need to be a company that controls every step of their manufacturing process, from forgings to MIM...

I'm guessing you have a company in mind... :-).

My sense is that (at least to revolver-leaning individuals), those shorter frame/cylinder guns are eye-catching and attractive. Heck, I don't even like revolvers and I wish my LCR9 had a 9mm length frame and cylinder.

[Stephanie B]

So, to pirate off of another thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?37192-45-Colt-Duty-Revolvers), since this is Talk Like a Pirate Day (https://nationaltoday.com/talk-like-pirate-day/), I'd like to see Taurus's version of a .45 Colt mountain gun.

[DamonL]

I hope Marketing Manager means wearing a shirt that says Taurus on it and shooting in a lot of regional and national matches. :)

[jetfire]

I hope Marketing Manager means wearing a shirt that says Taurus on it and shooting in a lot of regional and national matches. :)

It absolutely does

[Hambo]

With absolutely zero sarcasm, I wish you the best of luck with that. It would be awesome if y'all can pull it off.

Same here. If you guys can get them to turn out a product that is reliable and durable, I could swallow my Taurus hate.

Oh, BTW, when is the Taurus 2011 coming out? ;)

[Stephanie B]

It absolutely does

And sponsoring some of them?

[RevolverRob]

So...can we talk more about the 856 UL, Bobbed Hammer, with a drilled and tapped top strap that can accomodate a swappable fixed rear sight or RDS mount?

We can call it the RevolverRob WhyYouNoMakeThisColt Special

[1Rangemaster]

And a respectful request for consideration: as I move closer to semi-retirement, I have a hankering for a small rimfire revolver. I've been curious as to why no one recently has made a convertible DA-.22lr and a .22 magnum cylinder. Practice with the lr, carry the magnum.
A lightweight with good sights and 8 rounds, 2-3 inch barrel.
Sincere thanks for considering.

Edit to add, after looking at website: 942 "Ultra-lite" w/2 cylinders, 3 inch barrel-please!

[jetfire]

And sponsoring some of them?

For 2023, that's on the table. We need to set our budgets and whatnot and I am pitching support of support some of the shooting sports

[OlongJohnson]

And a respectful request for consideration: as I move closer to semi-retirement, I have a hankering for a small rimfire revolver. I've been curious as to why no one recently has made a convertible DA-.22lr and a .22 magnum cylinder. Practice with the lr, carry the magnum.
A lightweight with good sights and 8 rounds, 2-3 inch barrel.
Sincere thanks for considering.

Edit to add, after looking at website: 942 "Ultra-lite" w/2 cylinders, 3 inch barrel-please!

Mag needs a larger groove diameter than LR, so accuracy typically suffers in guns so configured when shooting LR. A Single Six is likely to be considerably more accurate when shooting LR if a new barrel is made from a blank dedicated to LR and the Mag cylinder set aside or sold off.

[1Rangemaster]

Mag needs a larger groove diameter than LR, so accuracy typically suffers in guns so configured when shooting LR. A Single Six is likely to be considerably more accurate when shooting LR if a new barrel is made from a blank dedicated to LR and the Mag cylinder set aside or sold off.

I appreciate your expertise, but a want is a want.
A respectful question: what sort of accuracy improvement are we talking about? If a small revolver could shoot into say, 4 or 5 inches at 25 yards that’s good enough for me. Even a 3” group at 15 would suffice for defense, I’d submit.
I like accuracy and good triggers, sights, etc., but the perfect shouldn’t be the the enemy of the good.
YMMV

[OlongJohnson]

A sample: https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/rifle-barreled-ruger-sixguns/

I believe those were just takeoff 10/22 barrels cut down. Probably good enough to not be the weak link in a handgun, but of course there are match-grade barrels and blanks available as well.

[42Willys]

Congrats and best of luck Caleb

[Exiledviking]

Congratulations Caleb!

This thread made me go and check out the 856 3" revolvers on the Taurus website.

[UncleGabby]

My father-in-law, despite being pretty well off, worships at the alter of Cheap. So of course he owns multiple Taurus semi-auto pistols. He swears by them. His PT-92 is just as good as or better than a Beretta, and will still tell me that after I’ve watched his jam several times, same with his G3C. Now he wants to pocket carry a revolver, because I pocket carry a J-Frame, but I’m sure he’ll buy a Taurus. Bless his heart.

Anyway, Congratulations to Caleb! I’ll probably never buy a Taurus, but I know and care about plenty of people who own them, and would probably stake their life on them. Help them get a good product (it’s a life safety tool after all, doesn’t need to be pretty) and you’ll have my gratitude.

[jetfire]

Anyway, Congratulations to Caleb! I’ll probably never buy a Taurus, but I know and care about plenty of people who own them, and would probably stake their life on them. Help them get a good product (it’s a life safety tool after all, doesn’t need to be pretty) and you’ll have my gratitude.

That's the idea. Everyone, regardless of income level, deserves to have a reliable firearm for self defense.

[Elwin]

Congratulations Caleb!

This thread made me go and check out the 856 3" revolvers on the Taurus website.

Same. Feature wise, I like the 856 Defender better than the Colt Night Cobra I keep thinking about. If the quality and durability were there, it would be the perfect revolver for my “more than an LCR but less than a full size auto” uses.

I don’t even mind the spurred hammer. I could see mine doing double duty as a kit gun (if I ever have the actual need for one), so I’d leave it as is.

Edit - does being marketing manager involve convincing kydex benders to support the guns?

[Stephanie B]

Edit - does being marketing manager involve convincing kydex benders to support the guns?

Sending them free samples so they could make the holsters might go a long way towards that.

[Moped]

Congratulations on your new position! I own three Tauri, a G2C, 627 .357 and a T-Rex and enjoy shooting all three of them. Taurus has stepped up their game in the last several years, IMO. And frankly, I’m glad to see it, as Colt, Ruger and S&W continue to price themselves out of most of the revolver market, by making more and more expensive pistols. Don’t get me wrong, all three make great revolvers, but they are much too high in price for the average Joe out on the street to afford. That was the reason I bought the 627 Tracker. Turned out to be a great revolver! For about half the cost of a S&W.

Things, I’d like to see in the future from Taurus, are a return of the .327 Federal Magnum (yes I know it’s in their line up, but I’ve never actually seen one in the wild). More 3 inch revolver barrel options with both adjustable and fixed sights. And lastly, the return of pistol caliber carbines in revolver calibers.

I think the time is ripe for a new bolt action design, chambered in .327, .357, .44 magnum and .45LC. An affordable lever action would be nice too, as well as a semi auto, ala the old Ruger design in .44 magnum or the Ruger PC. And dare I say, a pump action carbine, like the old Timberwolf rifle, that’s dependable.

[Lex Luthier]

Sending them free samples so they could make the holsters might go a long way towards that.

This is an idea that seems to have merit. I have no idea about how good the sales numbers were for Walther when they launched the PDP, but having holsters available from several makers at product launch that were available to buy through Walther's web commerce site was a stroke of genius, as far as I am concerned.

[jetfire]

This is an idea that seems to have merit. I have no idea about how good the sales numbers were for Walther when they launched the PDP, but having holsters available from several makers at product launch that were available to buy through Walther's web commerce site was a stroke of genius, as far as I am concerned.

Getting high quality holster support for certain product lines is very close to the top of my to-do list and I'm already in several different email threads with companies you've definitely heard of.

[OlongJohnson]

I think the time is ripe for a new bolt action design, chambered in .327, .357, .44 magnum and .45LC. An affordable lever action would be nice too, as well as a semi auto, ala the old Ruger design in .44 magnum or the Ruger PC. And dare I say, a pump action carbine, like the old Timberwolf rifle, that’s dependable.

A well-made pump action carbine in .357 would be a delight. And if one in .45 could take Ruger loads, that would also be awesome, but not if making it strong enough to do that meant it had to be boat-anchor heavy with .357-sized holes in it.

Somehow, I doubt a responsible product management team would advocate a company like Taurus putting resources into that.

[jetfire]

A well-made pump action carbine in .357 would be a delight. And if one in .45 could take Ruger loads, that would also be awesome, but not if making it strong enough to do that meant it had to be boat-anchor heavy with .357-sized holes in it.

Somehow, I doubt a responsible product management team would advocate a company like Taurus putting resources into that.

Taurus also owns Rossi and Heritage, and if you don't recall actually produced a pump action clone of the Colt Lightning called the Thunderbolt years and years ago. There's a lot of stuff in the back catalog that may not fit with where we're taking Taurus, but might have a landing space with another one of our brands.

Please don't take that to mean that we're bringing the Thunderbolt back, that was an entirely hypothetical example of a thing that had already been done that could be done again but differently.

[RevolverRob]

Taurus also owns Rossi and Heritage, and if you don't recall actually produced a pump action clone of the Colt Lightning called the Thunderbolt years and years ago. There's a lot of stuff in the back catalog that may not fit with where we're taking Taurus, but might have a landing space with another one of our brands.

Please don't take that to mean that we're bringing the Thunderbolt back, that was an entirely hypothetical example of a thing that had already been done that could be done again but differently.

Well, when you're hypothetical'ing away - Scaling the Rossi Circuit Judge down to fit an 8-shot 608-cylinder and chop the barrel back to 16".

Why lever when you can revo...with 8-shots of .357 on tap.

Just spitballing ideas that are dumb and probably not feasible.

[UncleGabby]

The thing that bothers me is not the choice of a cheap gun, but either the lack of vetting a piece of life safety equipment, or the fact that it will fail their vetting process, and they will carry it anyway. And I mean by the end user. I have had friends and co-workers literally tell me they shot half a box of bullets through it and it only jammed a couple times, so good enough. In their words, “it was probably the cheap aluminum bullets anyway.”

Not limited to Taurus buyers. A good friend who’s been to the range with me several times is kind of a gun snob (laughs at Tauruses) bought a Sig P365 shortly after they came out, carried it constantly and didn’t put a round through it for two years. That’s after I told him I’d read reports of firing pins breaking on early samples at low round counts.

Since we probably can’t fix the human element, if we can recommend an affordable, reliable product, that’s pretty good. I’ve recommended the Executive Grade 856 to one of my wife’s family who doesn’t own any guns, but has recently seen the need. He probably won’t pay eight or nine hundred for a Smith or a Kimber revolver, and those aren’t guaranteed to run out of the box either.

[Cecil Burch]

Count me as one of those curmudgeonly old men who rail about people working for gun companies who don't know much about guns, so I am very happy to see one company taking a differnet approach.

Congrats Caleb! don't be shocked if I talk your ear off at Revovolver Round Up!

[Cecil Burch]

Not saying the hiring of jetfire influenced me at all - but they make a 856, 3", Ultralite, with Ameriglo front sight. To be the perfect .38 Special carry gun it needs only:

1) To work
2) A bobbed hammer
3) A decent rear sight



Word.

Why in this day and age of what we KNOW works for sighting systems that companies (specifically looking at S&W) still make a dinky ass rear sight with a top frame channel is beyond me. Don't tell me a rear dovetail that takes Glock sights is not doable on a revolver.

[TheNewbie]

Taurus offers a lot of what I want. Sure I would make a few changes, like a larger safety on the G3, and better revolver sights. Yet, I would be content if I knew that their QC standards and quality of comments were top of the line and could live with the products as is.


The TH9 is a pistol I would like, and their revolver series are something I really want to trust. The M82 is a great looking revolver in my opinion, and a small ultra light 5 shot deep concealment revolver would be great to see again.

[jetfire]

Word.

Why in this day and age of what we KNOW works for sighting systems that companies (specifically looking at S&W) still make a dinky ass rear sight with a top frame channel is beyond me. Don't tell me a rear dovetail that takes Glock sights is not doable on a revolver.

Man you guys are going to be really happy come SHOT Show

[RevolverRob]

Man you guys are going to be really happy come SHOT Show

We've been hurt before...don't make us show you on a revolver where the bad men (didn't) touch it...

[Totem Polar]

Man you guys are going to be really happy come SHOT Show

[Hambo]

Man you guys are going to be really happy come SHOT Show

Fuck the SHOT Show. What is this, Detroit in 1956? Taurus could break from the herd ;) and introduce quality guns any time.

Second, the idiotic Glock/SA/other releases at high noon on the 3rd Tuesday of whatever, teased with partial nudes over Instagram. Fuck the hype, just get it done.

[Zman001]

Just make sure the guns aren't able to do this. 94621


:D

[Stephanie B]

Fuck the SHOT Show. What is this, Detroit in 1956? Taurus could break from the herd ;) and introduce quality guns any time.

Second, the idiotic Glock/SA/other releases at high noon on the 3rd Tuesday of whatever, teased with partial nudes over Instagram. Fuck the hype, just get it done.

I cannot like this enough.

[RevolverRob]

That's the idea. Everyone, regardless of income level, deserves to have a reliable firearm for self defense.

I quoted this, because it needs to be able to be read again.

It's why Flamingo and I made the Self-Opening Sheath for inexpensive Kershaw-Emersons. It's why I feel the 'China Pick' is so fantastic. It's why I buy POM in 6-packs and give them away.

Budget or lack thereof should not be a barrier to effective self-defense tools and training.

[Inkwell 41]

I cannot like this enough.

Yeah, mega ditto’s.

[RevolverRob]

2. Taurus has some bafflingly stupid gun designs that (for many) taint the entire product line. E.g. the Curve (https://www.firearmreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Taurus-Curve-Front-and-Side-View.jpg) and Raging Judge.


So, not being a Taurus person. I hadn't actually perused the pistol side of Taurus lately. And I was pleased to see something when I looked earlier.

Gone are ALL sub-compact pocket pistols. The crappy TCP .380s, the Curve, the PT22. Also gone all the PT Millenium pistols and their descendants. Those were horrendous little pistols that all needed to go. Good riddance to those rubbish guns.

[jetfire]

Fuck the SHOT Show. What is this, Detroit in 1956? Taurus could break from the herd ;) and introduce quality guns any time.

Second, the idiotic Glock/SA/other releases at high noon on the 3rd Tuesday of whatever, teased with partial nudes over Instagram. Fuck the hype, just get it done.

We launched the 856 Executive Grade and the G3 Tactical during an off-cycle and those went pretty well for us. SHOT just falls naturally on the calendar for these launches, and TBH the industry is built to support SHOT launches so it makes some of the moving pieces easier.

One thing we won't be doing is having a big flashy launch at SHOT and then not having any product to ship

[lee n. field]

So, not being a Taurus person. I hadn't actually perused the pistol side of Taurus lately. And I was pleased to see something when I looked earlier.

Gone are ALL sub-compact pocket pistols. The crappy TCP .380s, the Curve, the PT22. Also gone all the PT Millenium pistols and their descendants. Those were horrendous little pistols that all needed to go. Good riddance to those rubbish guns.

Oh, interesting. Did not realize the PT22 was gone. All the Milleniums other than the G2 descendants have been gone a while. The Curve is long gone, didn't last but a year or two. So, right now their only .380 is the little revolver (https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-380). So, the pocket micro .380 category is, not quite history, but fading.


Getting high quality holster support for certain product lines is very close to the top of my to-do list and I'm already in several different email threads with companies you've definitely heard of.

Good. I've gotten quite picky about holsters, and am not totally happy with where I landed with my 856 Defender.

Parts availability? (Which I realize is a customer support issue -- if you make stuff available generally, you don't have the control of how it gets installed. If you don't control the process you end up with end users (bless their pointy little heads) FUBARing something and bad mouthing you on social media.)

[Totem Polar]

One thing we won't be doing is having a big flashy launch at SHOT and then not having any product to ship

Waaaaay OT, but: there’s a joke in the music industry about the “NAMM” in January’s colossal NAMM show standing for “Not Available; Maybe in May.”

Anyhoo, carry on, and congrats again. They’re lucky to have you, stud.

[Hambo]

One thing we won't be doing is having a big flashy launch at SHOT and then not having any product to ship

That should put you ahead of others. :cool:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkeL7MdbEY8

[Polecat]

If you do the view again, tell em not to make a curve asymmetric grip, adds little. Maybe a micro grip with adapter sleeve to fit the standard boot grip as well. Scale down the cylinder i.e if it’s .22 LR, .32 Mag!

[SouthNarc]

I have a blued model 85 from like 1990 and I have to say that's a great little revolver.

[vcdgrips]

1. Congratulations

2. A widely held opinion is that Taurus offerings today, on the whole, have uneven QC

3. Please just make stuff that works

4. The price point to get # 3 may mean increases

5. J/K size revolvers with sights on could see would be great

6. Easy to find night sight references on the website would be nice.

7. Blessings to you and yours in this time.

[HeavyDuty]

https://www.thetacticalwire.com/releases/770cb476-f275-4356-81ad-c3b442284618

[Totem Polar]

I have a blued model 85 from like 1990 and I have to say that's a great little revolver.

I do too. One of the spurless DAO ones. Better trigger than my J-frames.

[jetfire]

2. A widely held opinion is that Taurus offerings today, on the whole, have uneven QC

3. Please just make stuff that works

4. The price point to get # 3 may mean increases

I can address these three items directly, because we agree that the perception on our QC is out there. And in the past it has been. However, as we stand right now, we inspect a significant % of guns that come in from Brazil, and if the defect rate on the samples exceeds an allowable level, we go to 100% inspections. Additionally, the guns that are made/assembled at the Georgia plant have a 100% test fire and QC rate.

Re: the price point, the reason our stuff is often so cheap is because we're one of very few companies that owns every step of our production. We forge our own barrels, make our own castings, make our own MIM, and even do our own polymer frames.

If we had to outsource as much stuff as say, Sig outsources to make a P365, then a G3c would cost 500 bucks.

[TheNewbie]

I can address these three items directly, because we agree that the perception on our QC is out there. And in the past it has been. However, as we stand right now, we inspect a significant % of guns that come in from Brazil, and if the defect rate on the samples exceeds an allowable level, we go to 100% inspections. Additionally, the guns that are made/assembled at the Georgia plant have a 100% test fire and QC rate.

Re: the price point, the reason our stuff is often so cheap is because we're one of very few companies that owns every step of our production. We forge our own barrels, make our own castings, make our own MIM, and even do our own polymer frames.

If we had to outsource as much stuff as say, Sig outsources to make a P365, then a G3c would cost 500 bucks.


Has the production quality in Brazil increased? I would like an M82 to rely on, and I like that the 1911s are series 80.


Which products are made here?

[jetfire]

Has the production quality in Brazil increased? I would like an M82 to rely on, and I like that the 1911s are series 80.


Which products are made here?

Yes to the first question, a big part of what we're doing is driving incremental QC improvements in Brazil, and have dramatically increased QC inspections of Brazil made guns here in the states.

Guns made here in the Taurus line: all the TX22 series guns, and final assembly for the GX4 line. All guns made or final assembled in the USA are test fired as well.

[SSGN_Doc]

I do too. One of the spurless DAO ones. Better trigger than my J-frames.

Took my old ‘90s model 85 CH out and did a modified version of the Old Bakersfield PD 10 round course of fire with it. It acquited itself well. I’d like to see Taurus do a “More Executive” line, that offers polished stainless and truly blued steel options.

95562

[Lon]

Not saying the hiring of jetfire influenced me at all - but they make a 856, 3", Ultralite, with Ameriglo front sight. To be the perfect .38 Special carry gun it needs only:

1) To work
2) A bobbed hammer
3) A decent rear sight

Boom. This. 1000%.

Make it a P-F.com special with black/orange G10 grips from VZ.

[BN]

Bring back to 9 dollar rubber boot grip only have it relieved for speed loaders.
95655

[Polecat]

While your at it Caleb, have bring the TCP back in a 12- 13 round, improved sights! Oh and the No view in .22, .22WMR and .32 Mag.

Dave

[awp_101]

Not gonna lie. Between the good reports here, the P&S love over the past few months and them bringing jetfire onboard, the 856 Executive, 4” .357 Raging Hunter and 4” .44 Tracker at a nearby shop are looking very attractive.

[Jared]

Not gonna lie. Between the good reports here, the P&S love over the past few months and them bringing jetfire onboard, the 856 Executive, 4” .357 Raging Hunter and 4” .44 Tracker at a nearby shop are looking very attractive.

It’ll be a while before I jump on. There have been so many “Taurus is turning things around” posts/articles/proclamations in the years since I started following the gun world that I’m skeptical. I really do hope that they do well. The 856 executive has almost everything I’d ever want from a small carry revolver, so I want to believe. But they’re gonna have to prove it to me first.

[TheNewbie]

It’ll be a while before I jump on. There have been so many “Taurus is turning things around” posts/articles/proclamations in the years since I started following the gun world that I’m skeptical. I really do hope that they do well. The 856 executive has almost everything I’d ever want from a small carry revolver, so I want to believe. But they’re gonna have to prove it to me first.


I’m the same way. If Taurus proves it’s up to the task of durable guns with good QC and great CS, I’ll gladly ditch Ruger and S&W since Taurus makes more of what I want in a revolver. Even some of their autos are things I would like. The TH9 for example.

[SCCY Marshal]

4” .44 Tracker at a nearby shop are looking very attractive.

Is this the ported five-shot? Those are hilariously fun with Skeeter Skelton 44 Special loads once cleaned up, a Wollf hammer spring installed, and broken in.

[Lester Polfus]

Is this the ported five-shot? Those are hilariously fun with Skeeter Skelton 44 Special loads once cleaned up, a Wollf hammer spring installed, and broken in.

Hey. How many rounds do you have through that gun?

[SCCY Marshal]

Hey. How many rounds do you have through that gun?

Not mine, I just spent a weekend woods bumming with a friend's and knocking over rounds of wood across a log yard. I put 100 extra feisty Specials through the gun and he has about 500 through himself, mostly cowboy Special loads. I think his landlord has put maybe a hundred full bore magnums through it. No idea on the dryfire other than it being a regular Cooper style "click at the zeroes on T.V. commercials" piece.

[awp_101]

It’ll be a while before I jump on. There have been so many “Taurus is turning things around” posts/articles/proclamations in the years since I started following the gun world that I’m skeptical.
For sure. I'm still in "wait and see" mode but it certainly appears there's more than lip service and paid ad copy positive gun rag reviews this time around. Let's see if the changes are in it for the long haul.


Is this the ported five-shot?
I believe that's what this one was. I'm in a bit of a conundrum in that the "want" for a .44 Special is strong (and has been for years) but I have hand and wrist issues that make more than a few rounds uncomfortable. Even CAS level loads and forget full house Magnums. The last attempt was a Rossi 720 which had enough weight but had rock hard rubber grips and I never found anyone making replacements that were going to be any friendlier to my hands. My thought (hope?) is the extra barrel length, porting, extra weight (35oz vs 26) and better grip (and possibly better grips options) will be the secret sauce to keep my hands and wrists from rebelling.

I want to belieeeeeeve...™

[Lester Polfus]

Not mine, I just spent a weekend woods bumming with a friend's and knocking over rounds of wood across a log yard. I put 100 extra feisty Specials through the gun and he has about 500 through himself, mostly cowboy Special loads. I think his landlord has put maybe a hundred full bore magnums through it. No idea on the dryfire other than it being a regular Cooper style "click at the zeroes on T.V. commercials" piece.


For sure. I'm still in "wait and see" mode but it certainly appears there's more than lip service and paid ad copy positive gun rag reviews this time around. Let's see if the changes are in it for the long haul.


I believe that's what this one was. I'm in a bit of a conundrum in that the "want" for a .44 Special is strong (and has been for years) but I have hand and wrist issues that make more than a few rounds uncomfortable. Even CAS level loads and forget full house Magnums. The last attempt was a Rossi 720 which had enough weight but had rock hard rubber grips and I never found anyone making replacements that were going to be any friendlier to my hands. My thought (hope?) is the extra barrel length, porting, extra weight (35oz vs 26) and better grip (and possibly better grips options) will be the secret sauce to keep my hands and wrists from rebelling.

I want to belieeeeeeve...™

I've looked at exactly that gun, and thought it might be a good woodsbumming companion loaded with 240 grain hardcast handloads going about 1000FPS.

Loads at that level are pretty comfortable from a Model 29, and will shoot through most animals from front to back, never mind side to side.

[jetfire]

It’ll be a while before I jump on. There have been so many “Taurus is turning things around” posts/articles/proclamations in the years since I started following the gun world that I’m skeptical. I really do hope that they do well. The 856 executive has almost everything I’d ever want from a small carry revolver, so I want to believe. But they’re gonna have to prove it to me first.

I've heard all those reports too and considered that before I decided to take this job. And here's the thing, you can't solve QC issues overnight, but what we can do is actually incorporate user feedback into the product development process. That's how the 856 EG was born, it's why the GX4XL's grip shape is the way it is, etc.

And now for my bold statement: I would put our revolver line on par with what's coming out of S&W these days, excluding Performance Center guns. As far as our polymer framed products, I'm comfortable saying we're highly competitive with brands like Springfield or Canik in terms of product quality. If I wanted to really start an internet argument I'd include Sig in that group ;-)

[Jared]

I've heard all those reports too and considered that before I decided to take this job. And here's the thing, you can't solve QC issues overnight, but what we can do is actually incorporate user feedback into the product development process. That's how the 856 EG was born, it's why the GX4XL's grip shape is the way it is, etc.

I'd include Sig in that group ;-)

Totally get the QC issue bit. I’ve worked in manufacturing and have a solid understanding on what it takes to turn QC around.

As for SIG, well, they kinda made uneven QC cool in the last couple decades.

I really ain’t trying to play Debbie Downer, honest. I want to believe. I just want some more proof first.











Or you can ship an 856EG to my LGS that’s earmarked for me and I’ll be an unpaid beta tester (on the condition I keep the gun of course) ;)

[Lon]

I've heard all those reports too and considered that before I decided to take this job. And here's the thing, you can't solve QC issues overnight, but what we can do is actually incorporate user feedback into the product development process. That's how the 856 EG was born, it's why the GX4XL's grip shape is the way it is, etc.

And now for my bold statement: I would put our revolver line on par with what's coming out of S&W these days, excluding Performance Center guns. As far as our polymer framed products, I'm comfortable saying we're highly competitive with brands like Springfield or Canik in terms of product quality. If I wanted to really start an internet argument I'd include Sig in that group ;-)

I must confess I haven’t paid attention to Taurus products for years other than ones that showed up in the various classes I teach. I checked out their product line and the GX4XL looks interesting. The frame texture looks nice. And this isn’t a criticism, just curious, why Riton optics? I’ve got one. It’s ok. It’s on my blue gun. Just curious why Riton over some other brands, if you know.

[jh9]

So, the one place I've wanted pic rail on a revolver barrel Taurus puts it on their Raging Hunter line: https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/raging-hunter. S&W did something similar with the 327 but it was even bulkier because detachable. I digress.

https://www.taurususa.com/templates/yootheme/cache/Taurus_Raging_Hunter_2-357051RH_R-393f2b8e.webp

Is there any chance of putting a similar-but-smaller rail (just barely big enough for something like an RMRcc) on their 856? Like a 6-shot D-frame Colt Det Special with the provision for one of the modern, smaller dots.

https://www.taurususa.com/templates/yootheme/cache/Taurus_Defender_856_2-85631NS_R-a2874f67.webp

Just spitballing. I've never owned a Taurus but I was there in the 90s and the only reason S&W did any innovation at all is because Taurus did it first. So dots-on-a-revolver would be continuing the trend.

edit: you don't *have* to call it the jh9 special or anything but FFS some provision for fixed sight, smaller revolver to accept a dot sooner rather than later would be nice.

[Lester Polfus]

I keep eyeballing a 3" 942 .22 revolver as a knock around gun.

It's not so much the thought of being out the $350 if it turns out to be a POS, so much as just it's such a pain in the ass to ship a gun back for repairs, particularly where I live. And nobody locally will work on a Taurus, and even if I did I would have to pay out of hide, as opposed to using the "free" warranty, which I think means you pay to ship it to Taurus on your dime.

On the other hand, if I bought it, got a couple years use out of it before it broke, I could drive it to Portland for a gun buy back and get Denny's gift card or something. Dunno.

I think it's moot because this is not a firearm I'm going to order sight unseen. If Sportsmans gets one in, I'll go down and look at it.

Now that ammo is flowing more freely, I'm shooting quite a bit more, with about half of it being .22. I'm practicing with a .22 semi-auto pistol, but carrying DA revolvers, which seems kind of dumb. I've been lukewarm about Smith and Wesson lately. The Ruger SP101 in .22 is just a gun I've never cared for. I guess the smart thing to do would be to buy a LCRx, but they are just so damn ugly.

I'm burning through a few hundred rounds of .22 a month right now, and I'm just wondering how one would hold up to that firing schedule.

[jetfire]

I must confess I haven’t paid attention to Taurus products for years other than ones that showed up in the various classes I teach. I checked out their product line and the GX4XL looks interesting. The frame texture looks nice. And this isn’t a criticism, just curious, why Riton optics? I’ve got one. It’s ok. It’s on my blue gun. Just curious why Riton over some other brands, if you know.

Why Riton? That’s a price point package. I have to live in the reality that many of my consumers are my consumers because the brand is inexpensive. Are there people who will put Holosuns and RMRs on a GX4 TORO? Yeah of course. But also some people are just like “I want a gun with a red dot and I don’t want to spend a lot of money” so we offer a package for them.

[David S.]

I only have a few hundred rounds through it, but I'm really enjoying my first Taurus, a TX22 Competition.

I like the barrel mounted optic. Mounting seems solid enough. Accuracy is good and reliability has been consistent other .22 semi autos. One or two malfs (I don't remember the cause).

The gun came without suppressor adapter. I need to contact support, I have no doubt they'll make it right.

[jetfire]

I only have a few hundred rounds through it, but I'm really enjoying my first Taurus, a TX22 Competition.

I like the barrel mounted optic. Mounting seems solid enough. Accuracy is good and reliability has been consistent other .22 semi autos. One or two malfs (I don't remember the cause).

The gun came without suppressor adapter. I need to contact support, I have no doubt they'll make it right.

The TX22 Competition was one of the first guns we developed entirely in house in the USA. It's one of my favorite guns that we make, and even more so in the SCR configuration.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I've heard all those reports too and considered that before I decided to take this job. And here's the thing, you can't solve QC issues overnight, but what we can do is actually incorporate user feedback into the product development process. That's how the 856 EG was born, it's why the GX4XL's grip shape is the way it is, etc.

And now for my bold statement: I would put our revolver line on par with what's coming out of S&W these days, excluding Performance Center guns. As far as our polymer framed products, I'm comfortable saying we're highly competitive with brands like Springfield or Canik in terms of product quality. If I wanted to really start an internet argument I'd include Sig in that group ;-)

I don't think they've been mentioned here, but perusing the Taurus offerings, I think that the TH series may be one of the few TDA guns still being made that I might actually be able to reach/run the safety/decocker on.

https://www.taurususa.com/pistols/taurus-th

[awp_101]

I don't think they've been mentioned here, but perusing the Taurus offerings, I think that the TH series may be one of the few TDA guns still being made that I might actually be able to reach/run the safety/decocker on.

https://www.taurususa.com/pistols/taurus-th

Maybe an offshoot of that line could be the compact single stack TDA some of us have been wanting.

And just a random observation, maybe call the compact version of the TH something other than THC? I'm sure it's a pretty dope line and all but still...

[JAD]

Taurus made one of the coolest guns ever.
95846
I’m not sure Caleb’s cool enough.

[TheNewbie]

I don't think they've been mentioned here, but perusing the Taurus offerings, I think that the TH series may be one of the few TDA guns still being made that I might actually be able to reach/run the safety/decocker on.

https://www.taurususa.com/pistols/taurus-th


The TH9 has a lot of what I want in a gun. If I knew that I could expect durability and reliability out of it, I think I would be hard pressed to pass one up.

[Half Moon]

Taurus made one of the coolest guns ever.
95846
I’m not sure Caleb’s cool enough.


What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word as I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee.

(Didn't realize it was a Taurus. Always thought it was a jacked up Beretta. Which now that I say it... :-P )

[Hambo]

And here's the thing, you can't solve QC issues overnight

And here's my thing: I'm not interested until Taurus does solve those problems. When (see, I'm optimistic) you do, I'm willing to throw down some money.


And now for my bold statement: I would put our revolver line on par with what's coming out of S&W these days, excluding Performance Center guns. As far as our polymer framed products, I'm comfortable saying we're highly competitive with brands like Springfield or Canik in terms of product quality. If I wanted to really start an internet argument I'd include Sig in that group ;-)

I don't doubt that, but it doesn't inspire confidence, especially if you include SIG ;) It seems as though a number of companies are OK with turning out guns with QC problems these days, but that doesn't make it right, and it just keeps narrowing down the number of companies I'll buy from. I'm not going to beta test for anybody on my dime.

[Spartan1980]

And now for my bold statement: I would put our revolver line on par with what's coming out of S&W these days, excluding Performance Center guns.

This is nice to hear but I have a question that you may be able to answer.

Why do you exclude Performance Center guns? I've been under the impression for quite awhile now the PC guns are just normal production guns with a better/different feature set. Do they still have a separate staff of 'smiths that tune PC guns? I know for a fact that they used to once upon a time and I had them do a master action job on my first 625. It came back with a damn nice trigger and sprung for Federal primers. I wouldn't think of doing that today.

With a background in manufacturing and machining I'd be utterly shocked to find that there are differences at the component level. (such as better metallurgy, etc.)

[Joe in PNG]

(Didn't realize it was a Taurus. Always thought it was a jacked up Beretta. Which now that I say it... :-P )

Did Taurus ever make a PT92 with a slide mounted safety? I thought they stuck to the frame safety?

[Half Moon]

Did Taurus ever make a PT92 with a slide mounted safety? I thought they stuck to the frame safety?

I had the same thought but chalked it up to me being deficient in Taurus knowledge. With you flagging it too, just Googled it: the original movie prop was a Taurus PT99 and did have a frame mounted safety. Looks like recreating the prop with Airsoft pistols is also a thing. Not sure where JAD got the photo but betting its an M92 airsoft replica base modified to imitate the movie gun.

[Joe in PNG]

I had the same thought but chalked it up to me being deficient in Taurus knowledge. With you flagging it too, just Googled it: the original movie prop was a Taurus PT99 and did have a frame mounted safety. Looks like recreating the prop with Airsoft pistols is also a thing. Not sure where JAD got the photo but betting its an M92 airsoft replica base modified to imitate the movie gun.

I've seen a fair few Taurii 92's used as movie guns or prop builds- most famously being Vincent in 'Ronin'.

After all, they're cheaper, you don't feel as bad fiddling with them to make them into prop guns, and they'll probably work just as well.

[Half Moon]

I've seen a fair few Taurii 92's used as movie guns or prop builds- most famously being Vincent in 'Ronin'.

After all, they're cheaper, you don't feel as bad fiddling with them to make them into prop guns, and they'll probably work just as well.

Yeah, sort of the difference between a clarinet and an onion:
.
.
.
.
.
.

No one cries when when you cut up a clarinet :-P


(Assurances to any fellow woodwind players in the thread: No actual clarinets were harmed in the making of this joke...)

[Lester Polfus]

This is nice to hear but I have a question that you may be able to answer.

Why do you exclude Performance Center guns? I've been under the impression for quite awhile now the PC guns are just normal production guns with a better/different feature set. Do they still have a separate staff of 'smiths that tune PC guns? I know for a fact that they used to once upon a time and I had them do a master action job on my first 625. It came back with a damn nice trigger and sprung for Federal primers. I wouldn't think of doing that today.

With a background in manufacturing and machining I'd be utterly shocked to find that there are differences at the component level. (such as better metallurgy, etc.)

Sample of one: I ordered a 640 Pro in January, which ostensibly came out of the Performance Center. IT has a mediocre at best trigger, and the roll marks look so bad I've contemplated sending it back to Smith. The gun runs, and the barrel is on straight, so I'm inclined to just not look at the rollmarks and just run with it.

[Salamander]

Glancing at revolvers on the Taurus website just a moment ago, only two 856 models were prominently labeled as California compliant... and I've just recently seen a couple of these on LGS shelves. Out of curiosity I then went and looked at the CA DOJ website, and was pleasantly surprised to find that there are in reality several additional Taurus revolvers listed. That's not at all clear from looking at the Taurus site. One, the 856 EX, was just recently added which I hope is an indication that more may follow in the new year?

It was nice to see some 942 22LR options listed, one of those might tempt me if they actually turn up on shelves. Or maybe someday, something optics capable?

[jetfire]

I don't think they've been mentioned here, but perusing the Taurus offerings, I think that the TH series may be one of the few TDA guns still being made that I might actually be able to reach/run the safety/decocker on.

https://www.taurususa.com/pistols/taurus-th

I actually have a TH40 I'm planning on shooting a bunch, I'm genuinely curious about the line because TBH I didn't even know we had it until I came on board.

[JAD]

I had the same thought but chalked it up to me being deficient in Taurus knowledge. With you flagging it too, just Googled it: the original movie prop was a Taurus PT99 and did have a frame mounted safety. Looks like recreating the prop with Airsoft pistols is also a thing. Not sure where @JAD (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1359) got the photo but betting its an M92 airsoft replica base modified to imitate the movie gun.

it was a quick Google — I think I remember the movie gun having a frame mounted safety.

yup. Imfd remembers:
95848

[lee n. field]

(Didn't realize it was a Taurus. Always thought it was a jacked up Beretta. Which now that I say it... :-P )

I think that one is a Beretta. But, Taurus has certainly made a lot of, ahhhh, "aggressively decorated" guns in the past.

[JAD]

I think that one is a Beretta. But, Taurus has certainly made a lot of, ahhhh, "aggressively decorated" guns in the past.

They're not quite that creative. That gun (in my corrected image, not my bogus googled 92FS), like a lot of hollywood's cooler guns, was made by Charles Taylor at Movie Armaments Group. There are actually multiple Rapier 9mms - one would make Gelhaus proud:
95855
They're all PT99AFSes.

[Stephanie B]

And now for my bold statement: I would put our revolver line on par with what's coming out of S&W these days, excluding Performance Center guns. As far as our polymer framed products, I'm comfortable saying we're highly competitive with brands like Springfield or Canik in terms of product quality. If I wanted to really start an internet argument I'd include Sig in that group ;-)


And here's my thing: I'm not interested until Taurus does solve those problems. When (see, I'm optimistic) you do, I'm willing to throw down some money.

If you recall the issues I had with two brand-spanking new 66-8s (start here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1264822&viewfull=1#post1264822) and here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1289038&viewfull=1#post1289038), and this (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1334810&viewfull=1#post1334810)) saying that "our guns are as good as S&W" is damning with faint praise.

So then the question is: Is their CS as good as S&W? Does Taurus pay for shipping both ways?

[awp_101]

it was a quick Google — I think I remember the movie gun having a frame mounted safety.

yup. Imfd remembers:
95848

What movie is that from?

[jetfire]

If you recall the issues I had with two brand-spanking new 66-8s (start here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1264822&viewfull=1#post1264822) and here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1289038&viewfull=1#post1289038), and this (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1334810&viewfull=1#post1334810)) saying that "our guns are as good as S&W" is damning with faint praise.

I mean that's kind of the point, right? Most people don't think of S&W as a "bad" brand, but our error rate is on par with theirs

[Half Moon]

What movie is that from?


https://youtu.be/4VBsi0VxiLg

[JRV]

So, the one place I've wanted pic rail on a revolver barrel Taurus puts it on their Raging Hunter line: https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/raging-hunter. S&W did something similar with the 327 but it was even bulkier because detachable. I digress.

https://www.taurususa.com/templates/yootheme/cache/Taurus_Raging_Hunter_2-357051RH_R-393f2b8e.webp

Is there any chance of putting a similar-but-smaller rail (just barely big enough for something like an RMRcc) on their 856? Like a 6-shot D-frame Colt Det Special with the provision for one of the modern, smaller dots.

https://www.taurususa.com/templates/yootheme/cache/Taurus_Defender_856_2-85631NS_R-a2874f67.webp

Just spitballing. I've never owned a Taurus but I was there in the 90s and the only reason S&W did any innovation at all is because Taurus did it first. So dots-on-a-revolver would be continuing the trend.

edit: you don't *have* to call it the jh9 special or anything but FFS some provision for fixed sight, smaller revolver to accept a dot sooner rather than later would be nice.

See, and I want a revolver with a wider topstrap with integrated holes and studs for something akin to a 507K/EPS Carry. Maybe with a cowitness front sight for the optic’s built-in sight…

I know Caleb and others have made L-frame 3” guns with optics, and those optics sit rather high on plates. An 856 with a small dot would be much more totable.

[Trooper224]

saying that "our guns are as good as S&W" is damning with faint praise.

Word.

[Trooper224]

I mean that's kind of the point, right? Most people don't think of S&W as a "bad" brand, but our error rate is on par with theirs

Smith and Wesson was once a great company that still attempts to trade on that past glory. You current company has always made a crap product, so you're practicing false equivalency with that statement. I wish you success, I really do, but we're going to have limited patience with the spin.

[LittleLebowski]

Honestly, I think we're lucky to have industry guys on here. Please conduct yourselves accordingly.

[Clusterfrack]

Smith and Wesson was once a great company that still attempts to trade on that past glory. You current company has always made a crap product, so you're practicing false equivalency with that statement. I wish you success, I really do, but we're going to have limited patience with the spin.

Who would you rather buy from? 1) a company that wants to improve, and demonstrates a commitment to quality in design and functionality or 2) a company that made ok products 30 years ago but, despite substantial resources, continues to produce mediocre designs that have QC issues?

I’m not saying Taurus is in category (1) yet, but…

[jetfire]

Smith and Wesson was once a great company that still attempts to trade on that past glory. You current company has always made a crap product, so you're practicing false equivalency with that statement. I wish you success, I really do, but we're going to have limited patience with the spin.

Who's this "we," kemo sabe?

[Stephanie B]

I mean that's kind of the point, right? Most people don't think of S&W as a "bad" brand, but our error rate is on par with theirs

I have come to accept that, unless I buy something like a MR.73, I am rolling the dice on QC if I buy a new revolver. So, the question then is, is Brand X's CS as good as S&W's? To get a working 66-8 took two guns and four trips to the Mothership, but those returns were all fully paid for by S&W. On the third return of the first gun, they jumped the repair queue for me. I had no issues with them quibbling about the returns.

Does Taurus pay shipping, both ways, on warranty repairs?

[Clusterfrack]

I have come to accept that, unless I buy something like a MR.73, I am rolling the dice on QC if I buy a new revolver. So, the question then is, is Brand X's CS as good as S&W's? To get a working 66-8 took two guns and four trips to the Mothership, but those returns were all fully paid for by S&W. On the third return of the first gun, they jumped the repair queue for me. I had no issues with them quibbling about the returns.

Does Taurus pay shipping, both ways, on warranty repairs?

God, that’s an awful thing to read. But is that S&W only, or also Ruger and Kimber?

[Stephanie B]

I have come to accept that, unless I buy something like a MR.73, I am rolling the dice on QC if I buy a new revolver. So, the question then is, is Brand X's CS as good as S&W's? To get a working 66-8 took two guns and four trips to the Mothership, but those returns were all fully paid for by S&W. On the third return of the first gun, they jumped the repair queue for me. I had no issues with them quibbling about the returns.

Does Taurus pay shipping, both ways, on warranty repairs?


God, that’s an awful thing to read. But is that S&W only, or also Ruger and Kimber?

All of them. How many people, on here, have written about QC problems with both? My recollection that the initial run of the GP100.44 was a massive dumpster fire. Kimber, well, pretty much the same.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that S&W's QC is on par with Taurus' for revolvers. That isn't really saying anything nice about Taurus though....

For me Ruger seems like the safest choice for a new revolver since I know they have great customer service and will work to make things right.

The Kimber K6S is the revolver that most interests me. I haven't heard much bad about their QC besides some issues with the first runs of that revolver, but then again they are produced in much smaller numbers so could just be a lack of data.

[jetfire]

I have come to accept that, unless I buy something like a MR.73, I am rolling the dice on QC if I buy a new revolver. So, the question then is, is Brand X's CS as good as S&W's? To get a working 66-8 took two guns and four trips to the Mothership, but those returns were all fully paid for by S&W. On the third return of the first gun, they jumped the repair queue for me. I had no issues with them quibbling about the returns.

Does Taurus pay shipping, both ways, on warranty repairs?

I broke an MR73 with fewer trigger pulls than I have on my Taurus 856 Executive Grade, so you're rolling the dice there too.

And as far as shipping goes, I don't actually know the answer to that off the top of my head, but I just emailed our CS manager and asked her.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I'm not sure what influence Caleb is going to have on the direction of product development as the term Marketing Manager doesn't really imply any influence on that department, but since everyone else is throwing in suggestions, here are things I would love to see:

-A DA/SA shrunk down to GX4 dimensions. Personally I would be just as happy with a true DAO. I would probably even settle for a Kahr-style "decocked striker" with a striker that protrudes from the backplate to enable thumbing like a hammer.

-Get rid of the porting on the "raging bull" series, and generally offer the same revolvers they already offer without porting.

-revolvers milled from the factory for MOS plates, so anyone can just pick up already available plates to mount optics. Deeply milled pic rail on the topstrap would probably be fine as well. The problem with putting a rail on the barrel is that it will no longer fit in holsters with an optic.

-offer a "hand tuned" option. Basically take the most popular revolvers like the 856 Defender series, and have a trained guy at the factory give them a trigger job as well as additional QC. This would appeal to people who really shoot revolvers, and I bet Taurus could raise the price by $100 on such models and get this done profitably. Give these a special rollmark to distinguish them from the normal models.

[Sal Picante]

I broke an MR73 with fewer trigger pulls than I have on my Taurus 856 Executive Grade, so you're rolling the dice there too.

And as far as shipping goes, I don't actually know the answer to that off the top of my head, but I just emailed our CS manager and asked her.

At IDPA National, Beretta had a 4" MR73 that had a faulty action. Sometimes, pressing the trigger wouldn't advance the cylinder... They ended up taking that gun off the demo booth lineup.

[Clusterfrack]

-A DA/SA shrunk down to GX4 dimensions. Personally I would be just as happy with a true DAO. I would probably even settle for a Kahr-style "decocked striker" with a striker that protrudes from the backplate to enable thumbing like a hammer.


Yes. Also, the TDA needs a simple, durable, easy to repair action.

[jetfire]

I'm not sure what influence Caleb is going to have on the direction of product development as the term Marketing Manager doesn't really imply any influence on that department, but since everyone else is throwing in suggestions, here are things I would love to see:

-A DA/SA shrunk down to GX4 dimensions. Personally I would be just as happy with a true DAO. I would probably even settle for a Kahr-style "decocked striker" with a striker that protrudes from the backplate to enable thumbing like a hammer.

-Get rid of the porting on the "raging bull" series, and generally offer the same revolvers they already offer without porting.

-revolvers milled from the factory for MOS plates, so anyone can just pick up already available plates to mount optics. Deeply milled pic rail on the topstrap would probably be fine as well. The problem with putting a rail on the barrel is that it will no longer fit in holsters with an optic.

-offer a "hand tuned" option. Basically take the most popular revolvers like the 856 Defender series, and have a trained guy at the factory give them a trigger job as well as additional QC. This would appeal to people who really shoot revolvers, and I bet Taurus could raise the price by $100 on such models and get this done profitably. Give these a special rollmark to distinguish them from the normal models.

DA/SA GX4: We have the THC series (worst name ever) which I think are a little bigger than the GX4, so not quite it but close
Ditching the Ported Raging Bulls: that's probably never going to happen, the vast pile of feedback from customers is that they love the porting on the heavy magnums. I'm agitating for a non-ported Tracker series though
Factory MOS Revolver Milling: This is my personal pet project and I swear on a stack of bibles it will happen
Hand tuned: that's largely what we're doing with the Executive Grade series, the 856 is the first option but there will be more

[TheNewbie]

I bet Caleb and I would have pretty different styles and views on many things. However, it’s a blessing to have him here and at Taurus. He understands what makes good gun and what features are a benefit.


Plus he is taking his time to respond to our thoughts and questions.

[Lester Polfus]

Factory MOS Revolver Milling: This is my personal pet project and I swear on a stack of bibles it will happen


This is the sort of thing that made my ears perk up when I heard you were going to Taurus. I don't want to harp on the past too much, but they've largely serviced a customer base that shoots a boxa shells through their heater at most, and don't know any better than to accept trough and post sights on a revolver.

YOU, on the other hand...

[HeavyDuty]

Taurus is extremely lucky to have someone of Caleb’s quality on staff - and so are we, because he gets it. Let’s always remember he is one of us, not some schlub off the street.

[Clusterfrack]

Taurus is extremely lucky to have someone of Caleb’s quality on staff - and so are we, because he gets it. Let’s always remember he is one of us, not some schlub off the street.

Right. We all know P-F is mostly street schlubs and staffed by schmuckmods. Embrace the schlubery!

[Trooper224]

Who would you rather buy from? 1) a company that wants to improve, and demonstrates a commitment to quality in design and functionality or 2) a company that made ok products 30 years ago but, despite substantial resources, continues to produce mediocre designs that have QC issues?

I’m not saying Taurus is in category (1) yet, but…

Confining my response specifically to your post, neither one. I have no interest in a business that's trying to be better, only a company that is better. No more than I choose to support a company that was once great, but no longer is. I haven't bought a new gun from either manufacturer since the mid 90s. This isn't a case of brand loyalty. I have nothing against Taurus, or Caleb for that matter. I think bringing Caleb on board is one of the smarter things they've done. I hope the company can deliver just as Caleb hopes. If they do, I gladly buy a Taurus. But, a company with a record as consistently bad as Taurus doesn't get my benifit of the doubt. Talk is cheap, show me a consistent and sustained improvement in QC. Then, you'll meet something more than skepticism. Until then, it's just bull from the Bull.

[OlongJohnson]

If you recall the issues I had with two brand-spanking new 66-8s (start here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1264822&viewfull=1#post1264822) and here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1289038&viewfull=1#post1289038), and this (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28203-OK-I-m-a-K-Frame-Addict-So-Sue-Me&p=1334810&viewfull=1#post1334810)) saying that "our guns are as good as S&W" is damning with faint praise.

So then the question is: Is their CS as good as S&W? Does Taurus pay for shipping both ways?


I mean that's kind of the point, right? Most people don't think of S&W as a "bad" brand, but our error rate is on par with theirs


I have come to accept that, unless I buy something like a MR.73, I am rolling the dice on QC if I buy a new revolver. So, the question then is, is Brand X's CS as good as S&W's? To get a working 66-8 took two guns and four trips to the Mothership, but those returns were all fully paid for by S&W. On the third return of the first gun, they jumped the repair queue for me. I had no issues with them quibbling about the returns.

Does Taurus pay shipping, both ways, on warranty repairs?


God, that’s an awful thing to read. But is that S&W only, or also Ruger and Kimber?


And as far as shipping goes, I don't actually know the answer to that off the top of my head, but I just emailed our CS manager and asked her.

Everything I have read is that up until now, Taurus has required a customer to pay for return shipping in order to obtain warranty service. For an average owner, that's either a $80-90 hit each time or run it through a willing FFL, pay $30 for USPS plus whatever processing fees the FFL adds, and complete a 4473 each time it comes back, just to get your own damn gun back. On a ~$350 856, F that sideways.

I've had to return multiple handguns to both S&W and Ruger, but none of them cost me a dime, and at least at those times, I was able to run it through FedEx and have it delivered directly back to me without a 4473. As discussed elsewhere, FedEx has recently changed its policies, which could make any of them a bigger problem.

So unless returning a Taurus for warranty has the same costs as returning an S&W or Ruger, it remains a dealbreaker, because I assume I will have to return any of them.

[jetfire]

Everything I have read is that up until now, Taurus has required a customer to pay for return shipping in order to obtain warranty service. For an average owner, that's either a $80-90 hit each time or run it through a willing FFL, pay $30 for USPS plus whatever processing fees the FFL adds, and complete a 4473 each time it comes back, just to get your own damn gun back. On a ~$350 856, F that sideways.

I've had to return multiple handguns to both S&W and Ruger, but none of them cost me a dime, and at least at those times, I was able to run it through FedEx and have it delivered directly back to me without a 4473. As discussed elsewhere, FedEx has recently changed its policies, which could make any of them a bigger problem.

So unless returning a Taurus for warranty has the same costs as returning an S&W or Ruger, it remains a dealbreaker, because I assume I will have to return any of them.

Direct quote from our CS Manager: "we cover shipping cost ways as long as it is still under warranty"

[OlongJohnson]

Direct quote from our CS Manager: "we cover shipping cost ways as long as it is still under warranty"

I assume you meant "both ways."

I guess that means I'm one step closer to buying an 856 Defender, then.


The following Taurus handguns, previously covered under a one-year warranty, will now be covered under a Limited Lifetime Warranty:
Taurus® G2c, G2s, TH series, Taurus TX22, 1911 Commander, 1911 Officer, Taurus Spectrum®, Raging Hunter®, 856, and 692 revolvers. (https://www.taurususa.com/support/limited-lifetime-warranty)

[PNWTO]

I guess I'm one step closer to buying an 856 Defender, then.


Me too.

Wrong forum, but as autoloaders, and shooting in general, have becoming boring or displaced by better activities I’m really at the G3C/GX4 as an entry level red dot setup.


Back to the topic, I think the 856 Defender looks like the best 3” “general purpose for normies” out there.

I will hold jetfire to his suggestions about exciting things during SHOT-time.

[lee n. field]

So then the question is: Is their CS as good as S&W? Does Taurus pay for shipping both ways?


Direct quote from our CS Manager: "we cover shipping cost ways as long as it is still under warranty"

Cool. I'll try it out soon.

From what I have read (hanging around the Taurusarmed forum, thus Internet hearsay, YMMV), if new enough they will. A bit older, and they will charge you for a shipping label to send it in. (No gun maker I've had to ship a gun into has charged for the return.)

[HeavyDuty]

This is famous P-F thread drift, but I’m at the point that if I could identify the best SKU I’d order a 3” Defender 856.

[Stephanie B]

I broke an MR73 with fewer trigger pulls than I have on my Taurus 856 Executive Grade, so you're rolling the dice there too.

Can we get Glock to make revolvers?

(Just kidding)

[Le Français]

I assume you meant "both ways."

I guess that means I'm one step closer to buying an 856 Defender, then.



That seals it for me regarding the 3" 692 9mm/.380/.38/.357 revolver.

[Paul D]

jetfire

Now that you are the head salesman in charge at Taurus, I am curious about the brand now. It was never in my consciousness. If I were to ask you to pick one pistol and one revolver that best epitomize what Taurus USA is all about (quality, value, utility): what would you recommend for me? For example, the old saying for which Glock was the G19.

[jetfire]

Cool. I'll try it out soon.

From what I have read (hanging around the Taurusarmed forum, thus Internet hearsay, YMMV), if new enough they will. A bit older, and they will charge you for a shipping label to send it in. (No gun maker I've had to ship a gun into has charged for the return.)

Some guns are not under warranty, like I’m sorry that your Spectrum is broken 🤣

[OlongJohnson]

This is famous P-F thread drift, but I’m at the point that if I could identify the best SKU I’d order a 3” Defender 856.

I checked gun.deals again earlier today, and this is the best deal currently available, IMO. You might beat it by a couple (and I mean just a couple) bucks, but from outfits without the reputation and service:

https://www.kygunco.com/product/taurus-2-85639ns-856-defender-38-spl-3-6rd-night-sights-ss

That is the SKU I would get because it's steel, so best chance of durability and best for shooting a lot, and the stainless won't change color when it gets worn, nicked and scratched. The black is just black oxide. It's over stainless if I remember correctly on the 856s, so it won't rust, but it will get worn quickly and you won't be able to do any deburring/smoothing of externally visible surfaces/edges/corners without making it look like hell.

[Totem Polar]

God, that’s an awful thing to read. But is that S&W only, or also Ruger and Kimber?

I’ve personally sent 4 guns back to Ruger—admittedly, over more than 3 decades. Each time, they came back absolutely way better than new. It’s as if the peeps there take it as a mark of shame that something happened the first time, and they give a bit of extra love to the trigger mechanism while it’s apart for the unfucking. That goes double for SA wheelies.


I will *NEVER* buy another new S&W. Not after the last, Stephanie-esque multi-trip debacle. And, folks, a lot of you know me: I have a safe with a top shelf full of old S&W wheelies. But fuck those guys. (I mean, aside from the 640pro I bought a year or two ago. S&W no-lock centennial, I wish I knew how to quit you…)

As to Caleb, he may have awesome new powers and prestige, but he’ll always just be another needy P-F wheelie whore to me. And more power to Taurus for seeing the value in that. We are indeed lucky that he was slumming here first. JMO.


PS. “856 Executive Grade P-F group buy.”

I’m a wheelie whore too.

:)

[lee n. field]

Some guns are not under warranty, like I’m sorry that your Spectrum is broken 🤣

It's a .44 Tracker that needs work I'd rather not attempt myself.

[Jared]

I’ve personally sent 4 guns back to Ruger—admittedly, over more than 3 decades. Each time, they came back absolutely way better than new. It’s as if the peeps there take it as a mark of shame that something happened the first time, and they give a bit of extra love to the trigger mechanism while it’s apart for the unfucking. That goes double for SA wheelies.


I will *NEVER* buy another new S&W. Not after the last, Stephanie-esque multi-trip debacle. And, folks, a lot of you know me: I have a safe with a top shelf full of old S&W wheelies. But fuck those guys. (I mean, aside from the 640pro I bought a year or two ago. S&W no-lock centennial, I wish I knew how to quit you…)

As to Caleb, he may have awesome new powers and prestige, but he’ll always just be another needy P-F wheelie whore to me. And more power to Taurus for seeing the value in that. We are indeed lucky that he was slumming here first. JMO.


PS. “856 Executive Grade P-F group buy.”

I’m a wheelie whore too.

:)

And I had a Super GP100 that took two trips back to Ruger before it was right.

I’m not bagging on Ruger, if I was gonna go buy a new revolver sight unseen right now, it’d be a Ruger. But that one was a mess.

[jetfire]

And I had a Super GP100 that took two trips back to Ruger before it was right.

I’m not bagging on Ruger, if I was gonna go buy a new revolver sight unseen right now, it’d be a Ruger. But that one was a mess.

I had to send my Super GP100 to Cylinder & Slide so they could fix it

[Bucky]

Everything I have read is that up until now, Taurus has required a customer to pay for return shipping in order to obtain warranty service. For an average owner, that's either a $80-90 hit each time or run it through a willing FFL, pay $30 for USPS plus whatever processing fees the FFL adds, and complete a 4473 each time it comes back, just to get your own damn gun back. On a ~$350 856, F that sideways.


I don’t know if this varies from state to state, or if a shop is required to have gunsmithing services. However, my shop has a repair book. When a gun is booked in to the repair book, it can be booked back out to the original owner without a 4473. YMMV.

Unfortunately, my shop isn’t setup for USPS shipping. Owner says it’s too much of a pain.

[Hambo]

Who's this "we," kemo sabe?

Do we need a Taurus Me Too hashtag? I'm glad you're here representing your company, but it's a company with decades of bad reputation. You're going to have to prove that Taurus is turning out the best guns they ever have, and that they're better than those of other companies. I don't want to have to care about your return policy, because I never want to send a gun back to the factory.

[HeavyDuty]

I checked gun.deals again earlier today, and this is the best deal currently available, IMO. You might beat it by a couple (and I mean just a couple) bucks, but from outfits without the reputation and service:

https://www.kygunco.com/product/taurus-2-85639ns-856-defender-38-spl-3-6rd-night-sights-ss

That is the SKU I would get because it's steel, so best chance of durability and best for shooting a lot, and the stainless won't change color when it gets worn, nicked and scratched. The black is just black oxide. It's over stainless if I remember correctly on the 856s, so it won't rust, but it will get worn quickly and you won't be able to do any deburring/smoothing of externally visible surfaces/edges/corners without making it look like hell.

That’s a good point, all stainless would be able to be melted too. I’ll hold off until I can get one in hand so I can vet it before buying. It’s a low priority thing.

[willie]

As stated in other posts, this Taurus has a heavy double action trigger pull which some have modified by changing springs. Hearsay information is that removing side plate voids warranty. I've examined several new ones at my lgs and without shooting them, I see improvement over earlier revolvers which were terrible. However, I noticed that the very heavy double action trigger pull puts enough energy into the "system" to permit cylinder to turn and lock up. I was not precise in stating this but meant that jerking the heavy da pull supplies needed energy to twirl the cylinder. Of course such may not be the case in all. Hambo would be a good tester for this wonder. Like me he's not biased. Ha.

Smith J frames remain king as long as you don't buy one from Olong's dealer.😀

My lgs has 2 inch J frames and usually has one without the lock. I will happily examine one of these and give it my approval before they ship it--if a PF member wishes to buy one.

[jh9]

I’ve personally sent 4 guns back to Ruger—admittedly, over more than 3 decades. Each time, they came back absolutely way better than new. It’s as if the peeps there take it as a mark of shame that something happened the first time, and they give a bit of extra love to the trigger mechanism while it’s apart for the unfucking. That goes double for SA wheelies.

I will *NEVER* buy another new S&W. Not after the last, Stephanie-esque multi-trip debacle. And, folks, a lot of you know me: I have a safe with a top shelf full of old S&W wheelies. But fuck those guys. (I mean, aside from the 640pro I bought a year or two ago. S&W no-lock centennial, I wish I knew how to quit you…)


I'm not on the never buy a new gun wave but I think you can count the S&Ws I have made in this millennium on one finger. I just couldn't pass up the 8-shot 27. There are plenty of 90s to Y2K made guns out there that have all the new CNC goodness and the early MIM guns were generally well executed.

Is jetfire going to campaign a moonclipped 608 in USPSA now?

[jetfire]

Is jetfire going to campaign a moonclipped 608 in USPSA now?

USPSA revolver isn't really relevant to how people use revolvers in the real world.

I am going to run a 3 inch 856 from AIWB in IDPA though

[fixer]

I check the revolver forum about 3 times a year...

Glad to see Caleb jetfire pursuing new adventures!

[BWT]

This is one of those times I miss Todd G.

An endurance test would be legit (but expensive).

[jetfire]

This is one of those times I miss Todd G.

An endurance test would be legit (but expensive).

I would fund that in a minute if Todd was still around. There isn't really anyone else I'd want to do that with, sadly.

[WobblyPossum]

This is one of those times I miss Todd G.

An endurance test would be legit (but expensive).

I can’t imagine any revolver of a size anyone would actually want to carry regularly, except maybe a GP100 or an MR73, surviving the kind of round counts TLG was putting on the test guns. I’m also pretty sure he wrote about how much he hated cleaning guns. Revolvers definitely need much more frequent cleaning than autos when you’re talking about decent round counts.

[BWT]

I can’t imagine any revolver of a size anyone would actually want to carry regularly, except maybe a GP100 or an MR73, surviving the kind of round counts TLG was putting on the test guns. I’m also pretty sure he wrote about how much he hated cleaning guns. Revolvers definitely need much more frequent cleaning than autos when you’re talking about decent round counts.

While true - I also meant he gave credibility to things by his testing, acumen, reputation, and objectivity.

You want a brand taken seriously? Send it on over to Todd with 50k rounds and you’ll have media for a year potentially year plus with someone who will work with you and give you product development insights.

I mean honestly HK P30’s IMHO received lots of fanfare for that. It also attracted a lot of people who shot guns to this forum.

The sheer number rounds with a revolver and this new line and heck even a 20,000 round test would probably be the “proving” that lots of folks here want. Add weekly / bi-weekly updates on a blog and working with holster / sight / accessory manufacturers and you’ve got yourself a successful product launch.

His testing and Tom Jones’ design gave us the SCD. His testing was the product development of the SCD as well IMHO.

I read pistol-training now and it’s SLG giving periodic updates on general shooting ideologies. If he released a post a week about his endurance test of brand so and so over tens of thousands of rounds? I’m so in.

[OlongJohnson]

That’s a good point, all stainless would be able to be melted too. I’ll hold off until I can get one in hand so I can vet it before buying. It’s a low priority thing.

I am not really a fan of the "melted" look.

I did break the edges on my GP100. Took away all the harsh sharpness without any significant visual impact on the shapes. Feels 1000% better in the hand, in every aspect of handling and shooting, but most people would have to have the differences pointed out with a stock gun for comparison to be able to see it.

Stock, but better.

[PNWTO]

jetfire

So as not to muddy your post in the Ammo subforum: what’s your take on the perceived difference, .38 vs 9, in recoil between those two 3” guns?

[jetfire]

jetfire

So as not to muddy your post in the Ammo subforum: what’s your take on the perceived difference, .38 vs 9, in recoil between those two 3” guns?

The 9mm gun when shooting 124gr HST had felt recoil that was more than the 38 Special firing 135gr Gold Dots. It didn’t edge into magnum territory, more like an extra spicy +P+ round. The 124gr +P 9mm Gold Dot was a bit spicier, but again not “red hot magnum” bad.

I also shot a full box of 115 grain FMJ, which really nailed it for me. The common plinking ammo in 9mm recoiled like a +P defensive round in 38, where the 38 FMJ was cupcake light

[03RN]

The 9mm gun when shooting 124gr HST had felt recoil that was more than the 38 Special firing 135gr Gold Dots. It didn’t edge into magnum territory, more like an extra spicy +P+ round. The 124gr +P 9mm Gold Dot was a bit spicier, but again not “red hot magnum” bad.

I also shot a full box of 115 grain FMJ, which really nailed it for me. The common plinking ammo in 9mm recoiled like a +P defensive round in 38, where the 38 FMJ was cupcake light

Have you noticed or checked for bullet pull?

[jetfire]

Have you noticed or checked for bullet pull?

I didn't notice it on the 115gr FMJ rounds, although I didn't really do the "fire 1 and check" method. I wasn't worried about it for the defensive JHP, since those are usually properly crimped. Truth be told I'm not really worried about it with FMJ ammo either. You usually only see bullet pull from really light guns, and my 905 is stainless steel with a 3 inch barrel. It weighs like a pound and a half vs our Ultra-Lite guns that are right under 1 pound.

The only gun I've ever had that was a proper bullet puller was my 325PD, the Scandium framed 45 ACP 2 inch gun from S&W.

[Stephanie B]

This is one of those times I miss Todd G.

An endurance test would be legit (but expensive).

I don't see the point. Who shoots 2,000 rounds through a revolver without cleaning it? Hell, other than match shooters and .22s, how many revolvers ever reach the 2,000 round point?

[03RN]

I didn't notice it on the 115gr FMJ rounds, although I didn't really do the "fire 1 and check" method. I wasn't worried about it for the defensive JHP, since those are usually properly crimped. Truth be told I'm not really worried about it with FMJ ammo either. You usually only see bullet pull from really light guns, and my 905 is stainless steel with a 3 inch barrel. It weighs like a pound and a half vs our Ultra-Lite guns that are right under 1 pound.

The only gun I've ever had that was a proper bullet puller was my 325PD, the Scandium framed 45 ACP 2 inch gun from S&W.

I'm trying to remember where I saw a 9mm revolver having issues. Iirc it was the 2" 327 and it was on the last one. So 7 rounds were fired prior.

Kinda soured me on 9mm revolvers but I can't say I've seen any more of it.

[03RN]

I don't see the point. Who shoots 2,000 rounds through a revolver without cleaning it? Hell, other than match shooters and .22s, how many revolvers ever reach the 2,000 round point?

:p

[oregon45]

I think a 2,000 round challenge with a revolver could be interesting, provided it didn't set the revolver up to fail by excluding cleaning. For example, 2,000 rounds of .38spl 130gr FMJ out of a lightweight revolver with cleaning every 100 rounds (basic stuff like brushing off the cylinder face, extractor star, hand, pawl, breech face and a quick brush through the cylinders) would likely reveal quite a bit about how well the gun holds up to recoil (I've had to tighten the sideplate screws on my S&W M29 during the course of an 80-round IHMSA match when running heavy loads, for example) as well as showing whether the operating parts can sustain actual use as opposed to dry firing.

[JonInWA]

Dagga Boy quite properly knocked the wind out of the sails for those aspiring to a revo 2K test awhile back. While I wouldn't want to unfairly (or inaccurately) paraphrase him, the gist of his denial of it was simply because revolvers aren't set up for it-it's a guaranteed failure, and silly to attempt.

A more valid test in my eyes would be to run a revolver in various matches and/or training, with proper cleaning/lubing after each, until a total of 2K rounds had been expended over time.

My recommendation for what constitutes a good clean/lube interval would be roughly every 150-200 rounds.

Best, Jon

[BWT]

I don't see the point. Who shoots 2,000 rounds through a revolver without cleaning it? Hell, other than match shooters and .22s, how many revolvers ever reach the 2,000 round point?

I didn’t say a torture test or without cleaning - but it would be interesting to see how the gun breaks, wears, etc.

Let’s be honest - Manurhin for example is a much vaunted name for example with 100,000s of round of .357 Magnum, etc. per the description. Seeing a gun go tens of thousands of rounds and seeing it documented is entertaining to me at least.

If I wanted to prove my gun was good - I’d test it. Heck! If I wanted to make sure I didn’t have lots of returns or bad customer experiences I would test it.

Let’s put it this way - you start up a new gun company. You want a marketing campaign?

Go give it to a national level trainer that writes well, publishes their findings, uses the guns in classes, and influences the industry to a degree. Students buy that gun, readers buy that gun, and viewers buy that gun.

Right?

Do I want to see a “mud test” on YouTube with a revolver? No. Do I want to see accuracy testing, see shooting times, etc. yes.

Heck I read y’all’s stuff and we’re just people on the internet. I was enjoying JCN (I know his opinions can polarize people, but just an example) tracking his MPX experience and honestly to a degree it was influencing my thoughts about that gun if I’m honest because it was engaging, interesting, a bit of adventure, and the data was gathered effectively.

ETA: FWIW, after seeing reviews here and other snippets I am very skeptical of Manurhin’s legendary reputation. JMHO.

[Wondering Beard]

I don't see the point. Who shoots 2,000 rounds through a revolver without cleaning it? Hell, other than match shooters and .22s, how many revolvers ever reach the 2,000 round point?

Didn't jetfire perform one on the new Colt Python? and it passed the test I believe.

[revchuck38]

Dagga Boy quite properly knocked the wind out of the sails for those aspiring to a revo 2K test awhile back. While I wouldn't want to unfairly (or inaccurately) paraphrase him, the gist of his denial of it was simply because revolvers aren't set up for it-it's a guaranteed failure, and silly to attempt.

A more valid test in my eyes would be to run a revolver in various matches and/or training, with proper cleaning/lubing after each, until a total of 2K rounds had been expended over time.

My recommendation for what constitutes a good clean/lube interval would be roughly every 150-200 rounds.

Best, Jon

Using that criterion, I've got two K frames (M10-8 and M67-1) that each has fired more than twice that number of rounds, all of which were at or near +P pressure. That's from when I was a semi-serious IDPA competitor and the SSR power factor was 125; my ammo ran ~133. They're still 100% and tight.

[JonInWA]

I didn’t say a torture test or without cleaning - but it would be interesting to see how the gun breaks, wears, etc.

Let’s be honest - Manurhin for example is a much vaunted name for example with 100,000s of round of .357 Magnum, etc. per the description. Seeing a gun go tens of thousands of rounds and seeing it documented is entertaining to me at least.

If I wanted to prove my gun was good - I’d test it. Heck! If I wanted to make sure I didn’t have lots of returns or bad customer experiences I would test it.

Let’s put it this way - you start up a new gun company. You want a marketing campaign?

Go give it to a national level trainer that writes well, publishes their findings, uses the guns in classes, and influences the industry to a degree. Students buy that gun, readers buy that gun, and viewers buy that gun.

Right?

Do I want to see a “mud test” on YouTube with a revolver? No. Do I want to see accuracy testing, see shooting times, etc. yes.

Heck I read y’all’s stuff and we’re just people on the internet. I was enjoying JCN (I know his opinions can polarize people, but just an example) tracking his MPX experience and honestly to a degree it was influencing my thoughts about that gun if I’m honest because it was engaging, interesting, a bit of adventure, and the data was gathered effectively.

ETA: FWIW, after seeing reviews here and other snippets I am very skeptical of Manurhin’s legendary reputation. JMHO.

P-f member Zeleny can fill you in on the details of French GIGN use of the MR73; keep in mind that the use, heavy as it was/is, was also supported by organic, exceptionally well trained armorers, who I strongly suspect were more gunsmith than armorer. There may be material and manufacturing differences between "old" and "new(contemporary)" MR73s also. Again, I'd trust Zeleney for the details.

Best, Jon

[Stephanie B]

Didn't jetfire perform one on the new Colt Python? and it passed the test I believe.

Which sort of proves my point.

[BN]

A more valid test in my eyes would be to run a revolver in various matches and/or training, with proper cleaning/lubing after each, until a total of 2K rounds had been expended over time.

My recommendation for what constitutes a good clean/lube interval would be roughly every 150-200 rounds.

Best, Jon

I did something like this when I was seriously shooting revolver in IDPA.

I have a 4" Model 10. I had a local gunsmith dovetail in a fiber optic front sight and then I sent it to Randy Lee for an action job.

My .38 special load was a Berry 158 grain plated bullet over enough Bullseye to make a 130+ power factor using Federal primers. Misc many times fired brass. I don't know how many rounds but it was well over 2000 because of how many bullets I ordered.

I would shoot a match on the weekend and practice until the next match. Before the next match I would push a stainless chamber brush once through each chamber followed by spinning a large dry patch in each chamber. I would brush under the ejector star. Once in a while I would put a drop of oil in the yoke at the front of the cylinder and put a little oil on the star. I would not clean again until after the next match and practice. That is the only cleaning I did for a couple of years.

With this combination, I won SSR in many state matches and placed well at the Nationals.

Clean ammo is the secret.

[revchuck38]

^^^^What BN said. I went through a bunch of swaged Zero LRNs because they shot so well, but my loads smoked like a choo-choo and I routinely brushed out the chambers during a match because I had to. I finally broke down and got a bunch of Berry's plated RNs...and then got a new job which knocked out the time to shoot matches. I still have 2k left to load.

[Lester Polfus]

I'm up to about 3K full-tilt boogie 158 grain Magnum loads out of my 4" GP100 since October of 2018. I've run about 2K more mid-range 158 loads, say in the 1050 FPS range, and maybe a couple hundred .38 Specials.

I can run my Glock 19s with filthy ammo, to the point that when the slide cycles bits of cack are hitting me in the face, and it doesn't seem to affect the reliability. It just takes longer to clean it when I get around to it.

My GP100 on the other hand, not so much. I had a couple pounds of Blue Dot left over from the Great 10mm Experimenet, and that stuff was crap in my .357. I think I wasn't using enough, but if I recall correctly, Alliant said a max of around 10 grains, but Speer said 12. So I was conservative and stuck with ten. The gun would crud up within a couple hundred rounds, and after about a thousand I had to disassemble the cylinder and clean it because it wasn't spinning freely.

AA#9 an CFE Pistol shoot much cleaner and I could go much longer without cleaning if I wanted to.

Then there's projectiles. The cylinder throats are just too tight for hard cast. Over on that forum full of a bunch of people who can't spell "bullet" they'll tell me I need to ream my throats, etc. My solution has been just to shoot plated and jacketed bullets. If the zombie apocalypse comes and all I can shoot is bullets I cast by the light of a campfire, I can make it work but if I can get Xtreme or Berry's plated here via Flat Rate shipping, that's what I'm all about.

I came home the other day from shooting 200 Speer 158 grain JHPs over AA#9 and the gun really wasn't very dirty. I didn't NEED to clean it, but I did anyway. If I'd shot the equivalent amount of hard cast 158 grain LSWCs over Blue Dot, I would have taken the gun out of ready service until I cleaned it, for fear it would bind up if I needed it for real.

[dogcaller]

I do too. One of the spurless DAO ones. Better trigger than my J-frames.

My recently-retired brother became a police officer in San Bernardino, CA in 1991. He's not much of a gun guy, and, as a young married father purchased an spurless blued 85 as his backup gun. It rode in a vest holster for all of those years, and spent quite a lot of time stuffed in a cowboy boot when off duty (I used to harass him about this, but I was the younger brother, and not a cop, so didn't push too hard). He's still got it, and it works just fine, though I'm glad that (after all these years!), he now carries a G17 IWB.

[03RN]

I'm up to about 3K full-tilt boogie 158 grain Magnum loads out of my 4" GP100 since October of 2018. I've run about 2K more mid-range 158 loads, say in the 1050 FPS range, and maybe a couple hundred .38 Specials.

I can run my Glock 19s with filthy ammo, to the point that when the slide cycles bits of cack are hitting me in the face, and it doesn't seem to affect the reliability. It just takes longer to clean it when I get around to it.

My GP100 on the other hand, not so much. I had a couple pounds of Blue Dot left over from the Great 10mm Experimenet, and that stuff was crap in my .357. I think I wasn't using enough, but if I recall correctly, Alliant said a max of around 10 grains, but Speer said 12. So I was conservative and stuck with ten. The gun would crud up within a couple hundred rounds, and after about a thousand I had to disassemble the cylinder and clean it because it wasn't spinning freely.

AA#9 an CFE Pistol shoot much cleaner and I could go much longer without cleaning if I wanted to.

Then there's projectiles. The cylinder throats are just too tight for hard cast. Over on that forum full of a bunch of people who can't spell "bullet" they'll tell me I need to ream my throats, etc. My solution has been just to shoot plated and jacketed bullets. If the zombie apocalypse comes and all I can shoot is bullets I cast by the light of a campfire, I can make it work but if I can get Xtreme or Berry's plated here via Flat Rate shipping, that's what I'm all about.

I came home the other day from shooting 200 Speer 158 grain JHPs over AA#9 and the gun really wasn't very dirty. I didn't NEED to clean it, but I did anyway. If I'd shot the equivalent amount of hard cast 158 grain LSWCs over Blue Dot, I would have taken the gun out of ready service until I cleaned it, for fear it would bind up if I needed it for real.

My 66-8 used to bind with cast bullets. I sent it out for the throats to get honed and now I've gone 500 rounds of cast reloads with zero maintenance with zero issues. It's now as boringly reliable as a g19

After 50k rounds it died but I blame dryfiring more than the 25k magnums and 25k+ps.

Still need to get that fixed but Sokol hasn't been returning my emails:(

[jetfire]

Didn't jetfire perform one on the new Colt Python? and it passed the test I believe.

I did, and it was quite a silly test. But kinda fun

[lee n. field]

I called in to Taurus Customer Service today, to start the process on getting my .44 Tracker* looked at. Got a live voice in short order, and they emailed me, for the asking, a prepaid FedEx shipping label.

Amazingly painless process.

So, yay Taurus.

(*very tight cylinder gap, cylinder binds.)

[jetfire]

I called in to Taurus Customer Service today, to start the process on getting my .44 Tracker* looked at. Got a live voice in short order, and they emailed me, for the asking, a prepaid FedEx shipping label.

Amazingly painless process.

So, yay Taurus.

(*very tight cylinder gap, cylinder binds.)

Glad to hear it! Sorry the Tracker's a little messed up though

[Polecat]

How about some UL .32 MAGNUMs nit .327s. Concealed hammers, and 650, 850 series .32s, just make em work with . 32 ACP too, I want a no view, like 9 rounds .22 and .32🙂

[jetfire]

How about some UL .32 MAGNUMs nit .327s. Concealed hammers, and 650, 850 series .32s, just make em work with . 32 ACP too, I want a no view, like 9 rounds .22 and .32🙂

Ultra-Lites are really tough right now because of the global aluminum shortage. We're having a hard time making enough guns of the existing UL models as is.

[Bio]

Ultra-Lites are really tough right now because of the global aluminum shortage. We're having a hard time making enough guns of the existing UL models as is.

My ignorant self always assumed that the metal cost of guns was pretty minimal. I figured most of the cost was in the tooling and assembly.

[OlongJohnson]

Then there's projectiles. The cylinder throats are just too tight for hard cast. Over on that forum full of a bunch of people who can't spell "bullet" they'll tell me I need to ream my throats, etc. My solution has been just to shoot plated and jacketed bullets.

That's weird. My GP's throats all pass a 0.3585 pin gauge. Lead should be .358, maybe .3585. This and my .359-throated J frame leaded all to heck in a hurry on Precision Delta .357 wadcutters.



My ignorant self always assumed that the metal cost of guns was pretty minimal. I figured most of the cost was in the tooling and assembly.

For the most part, it is. But you still have to get the metal. And if it's hard to get, that part of the bill of materials can get crazy in a hurry. Or if you have a special material requirement, you might just be SOL regardless of price.

[jetfire]

That's weird. My GP's throats all pass a 0.3585 pin gauge. Lead should be .358, maybe .3585. This and my .359-throated J frame leaded all to heck in a hurry on Precision Delta .357 wadcutters.




For the most part, it is. But you still have to get the metal. And if it's hard to get, that part of the bill of materials can get crazy in a hurry. Or if you have a special material requirement, you might just be SOL regardless of price.

Pretty much this. It's not a cost issue, it's that there is less raw material on the market right now than there ever was before and thus getting at that raw material to turn into revolver frames can be difficult

[Yung]

jetfire
you did this to meee
96695

[jetfire]

jetfire
you did this to meee
96695

Guess it means it’s working

[awp_101]

jetfire
you did this to meee
96695

:confused::confused::confused:

[MountainRaven]

:confused::confused::confused:

The 856 Executive Grade comes in a Pelican Vault case.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that these Pelican Vault cases each have an 856 Executive Grade in them.

[revchuck38]

The 856 Executive Grade comes in a Pelican Vault case.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that these Pelican Vault cases each have an 856 Executive Grade in them.

Without targets, they're just vaporware. ;)

[Yung]

Without targets, they're just vaporware. ;)
Fair enough. My alibi is that I'm just waiting for Mr. Mayer or Mr. Kelley to drop a holster first.

[revchuck38]

Fair enough. My alibi is that I'm just waiting for Mr. Mayer or Mr. Kelley to drop a holster first.

Likely story... :)

[Dark Star Gear]

Fair enough. My alibi is that I'm just waiting for Mr. Mayer or Mr. Kelley to drop a holster first.

Me too! Hoping to have that before Black Friday.

[Lester Polfus]

I think my Taurus 856 sweet spot would be an Upper Management grade that has the same gun sans Pelican case.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I think my Taurus 856 sweet spot would be an Upper Management grade that has the same gun sans Pelican case.

With the Ameriglo front sight and Hogue rubber grips.

[revchuck38]

I think my Taurus 856 sweet spot would be an Upper Management grade that has the same gun sans Pelican case.

When S&W came out with the "Thunder Ranch" M21-4 in .44 Special, I got one. It included a wooden display case. That display case quickly ended up in my storage unit. I'll find it eventually and put it on Gunbroker.

[JHC]

I didn't realize how many small frame revolver options they now offer in so many calibers. And 3" barrel options.

[lee n. field]

I called in to Taurus Customer Service today, to start the process on getting my .44 Tracker* looked at. Got a live voice in short order, and they emailed me, for the asking, a prepaid FedEx shipping label.

Amazingly painless process.

So, yay Taurus.

(*very tight cylinder gap, cylinder binds.)Glad to hear it! Sorry the Tracker's a little messed up though.

And it's back. "adjusted forcing cone". Cylinder gap now measures .004 instead of .0015. So I suspect my problem will turn out to be resolved.

I think I shipped it out the 2nd. That's got to be one of the best turnaround times I've seen for a gun warranty repair.

Thumbs up for "the new Taurus".

[Archer1440]

I would venture to say that if Taurus really wants to improve their image, they will really need to do more than “match once-storied-but-fallen company X” for quality and service.

I’m talking entirely new brand here, aiming for a sustainably higher level of quality and design. Hard to do, but arguably easier than rehabilitating the reputation of the existing brand and their legacy.

[Totem Polar]

Guess it means it’s working

Pretty much.

I’m one of several members here who’s said that we need to support companies when they actually make shit that we ask for (part of why I bought 3 new Colt Cobras when they first started putting them out). With this new Taurus offering—that checks all the boxes for me—and the fact that the development cycle was driven by one of our own, it was time to put my money where my mouth was.

I have an *earned* distrust of all things Taurus, but I’m also old enough to remember the last serious effort at raising the brand up through a dedicated revolver custom shop—I had one of the “carry pack” 605s from when Jack Weigand was tapped to spearhead the Taurus custom shop effort. That gun was serious stuff. Let’s see how this new one works out; I’ve got 1k worth of 158gr ball earmarked for the next gen carry pack—if it’s still working after I get through a case of ammo, I’ll look at adding another one.

[Dark Star Gear]

I’m one of several members here who’s said that we need to support companies when they actually make shit that we ask for

Shoot your Taurus carried AIWB in IDPA!

Same boat here. Our criticisms are worthless if we're not willing to accept that improvement can happen.

[Totem Polar]

Shoot your Taurus carried AIWB in IDPA!


Any chance you’re ready to help me out with that? I was just on your site looking for an update…

[Dark Star Gear]

Any chance you’re ready to help me out with that? I was just on your site looking for an update…

Email...

[Totem Polar]

Email...

Wilco

[Polecat]

Totem, tell is more about abiut the 605 carry pack, that is interesting? Anychance you have pics?


Dave

[Totem Polar]

Totem, tell is more about abiut the 605 carry pack, that is interesting? Anychance you have pics?


Dave


Oh, Lord no on the pics. This was… I dunno, 1993? The deal on the carry packs, though: Taurus hired Jack Weigand to tune up and offer his “tame the beast” package on a couple of skews; I had the 5-shot J sized .357, and they also offered a 5-shot .44 special built on their K sized true medium frame (the 431 carry pack). Both guns sort of presaged these new things: They were bead-blasted, DAO spurless hammer guns with cool gips, tuned triggers, and chamfered cylinders. They also had Weigand doing his patented “hybra-porting” which was a series of concentric circular ports drilled into the bore from the top of the barrel between the frame and the front sight. In hindsight, I’m not really a fan: the .44 special with the loads of the day (silvertip, or Blazer 200gr JHPs) really didn’t drive either the ports (or the bullets, post-porting) all that hard, and the .357 offered up a blast that would scare Hellen Keller. With cci/speer full-power 125 .357 JHP, the damn thing recoiled downward, and with some vigor, too. My dad had these flip up, clip-on plastic sunglasses that he wore over his fulbright professor-nerd bifocals, and the second shot of that CCI blew the things right off his glasses. Funny, but not confidence-inspiring.

At any rate, minus the ports—which I could do without—I got a real sense of deja vu the other day when I got to hold several of the new 856 execs in hand. Very much the spiritual successors, filling the same need, for most of the same reasons. JMO.

I have some info on those carry packs (initially, like, a limited run 100 of each to start, since Jack did the tuning himself) bookmarked somewhere… hold on a sec.

[jandbj]

https://www.jackweigand.com/taurus44.html

[lee n. field]

Totem, tell is more about abiut the 605 carry pack, that is interesting? Anychance you have pics?


Dave

Not quite what you looking for. From Jack Weigand's website, a magazine article on the same sort of work, on the .44: https://www.jackweigand.com/taurus44.html

[Totem Polar]

I had to step out for a moment, but it looks like others have provided the basic info—the pics tell most of the story, and the 605 carry pack was the same treatment. It looked like this:

[ECVMatt]

Pretty much.

I’m one of several members here who’s said that we need to support companies when they actually make shit that we ask for (part of why I bought 3 new Colt Cobras when they first started putting them out). With this new Taurus offering—that checks all the boxes for me—and the fact that the development cycle was driven by one of our own, it was time to put my money where my mouth was.

I have an *earned* distrust of all things Taurus, but I’m also old enough to remember the last serious effort at raising the brand up through a dedicated revolver custom shop—I had one of the “carry pack” 605s from when Jack Weigand was tapped to spearhead the Taurus custom shop effort. That gun was serious stuff. Let’s see how this new one works out; I’ve got 1k worth of 158gr ball earmarked for the next gen carry pack—if it’s still working after I get through a case of ammo, I’ll look at adding another one.


I am very interested in your results. This gun checks most of my boxes and Taurus has jumped through the hoop to make it available in CA. I feel like I should buy one simply to support their efforts. Please keep us updated.

[TheNewbie]

99410


Are these grips sold individually? They would fit an 856 right?


I like the look of them.

[Polecat]

Totem, thanks very cool history!

[Moped]

99410


Are these grips sold individually? They would fit an 856 right?


I like the look of them.

This screams "I need a Tylor T-Grip!" to me!!! :)

[JRV]

Hey jetfire, you wanna go teach the guys at The Gun Collective how to run and maintain revolvers?

The host made a point of gripping low on the backstrap, so the revolver was rotating a lot in recoil and hurting his hands.

They put ”less than 500 rounds” through an Executive Grade without any breaks, cleaning, or inspections, and then got upset that the yoke screw vibrated out. It’s a yoke screw. If you aren’t putting on a dab of a light threadlocker or checking the screw occasionally, that will happen, especially in smaller-framed guns.

They were also concerned that after several hundred rounds (without cleaning either the cylinder face or the forcing cone), the cylinder gap seemed to tighten up. Like… of course? You’re not cleaning off the fouling, it builds up. Bring an oily toothbrush to a high round count session, or at least wipe things with a rag every once in a while.

[JRV]

I forgot to mention my favorite parts of the TGC video: dudes cowboy wrist-snapping the cylinder closed and—the actual host of a firearms YouTube channel—checking the “lockup” of a revolver without the trigger pulled to the rear.

These are levels of incompetence that are beyond parody for a gun channel.

[Vista461]

I forgot to mention my favorite parts of the TGC video: dudes cowboy wrist-snapping the cylinder closed and—the actual host of a firearms YouTube channel—checking the “lockup” of a revolver without the trigger pulled to the rear.

These are levels of incompetence that are beyond parody for a gun channel.

I quit watching that channel a while ago. It’s too painful to watch, between the annoying host and all the cringy ads they do in their videos.

[Totem Polar]

These are levels of incompetence that are beyond parody for a gun channel.

You owe me a good craft micro brew for making me google that.

Those guys are way undereducated on revolvers.

[jetfire]

I forgot to mention my favorite parts of the TGC video: dudes cowboy wrist-snapping the cylinder closed and—the actual host of a firearms YouTube channel—checking the “lockup” of a revolver without the trigger pulled to the rear.

These are levels of incompetence that are beyond parody for a gun channel.

Yeah, I watched their video. That gun was sent to him by our former PR agency who we fired. There’s a reason why when I send revolvers out for a review I usually only send them to people who understand revolvers or I send a book of guidelines along with it.

And as a side note, you should see the guy’s email traffic to me. Suffice to say he’s off the Christmas card list

[JRV]

Yeah, I watched their video. That gun was sent to him by our former PR agency who we fired. There’s a reason why when I send revolvers out for a review I usually only send them to people who understand revolvers or I send a book of guidelines along with it.

And as a side note, you should see the guy’s email traffic to me. Suffice to say he’s off the Christmas card list

TGC is now claiming vindication, because whatever “someone at Taurus” told him equaled “you should not have to inspect your new firearm as recommended in the manual and anyone saying you need to check yoke screws or keep revolvers wiped down during high round usage is wrong” in his mind.

I need to take a break from non-forum socials… It’s the “you can lead a horse to water” axiom but the horse breathes Dunning-Kruger and actively celebrates dying of thirst.

[Bergeron]

I vaguely and occasionally follow TGC, and for quite a bit less time than I’ve been following P-F.

The general impression I got from that video is that there was an urge to a “story to tell”, more than a gun review. I skipped about 1/2 of the “range time” part of that video. I’m not on Insta a ton, but the impression I get from whatever discussion I’ve seen is that there has been pushback from the audience.

I’ll say that it doesn’t look good for a review channel to flick a gun shit, or to describe an attempt to grip the gun as low as possible. It’s also one thing to say “over the course of several hundred rounds, the yoke screw worker its way lose of and off the frame”, and it’s something else to act like the gun “somehow fell apart”, and to make such a big deal without discussing either root causes-corrections or engagement with the factory.

While I would say that the TGC host is “of his generation”, my hope was that the snarkiness on the channel was more of a show and less of a personality trait.

All said and done, I still think the 865 is productively occupying an important niche segment of the market, and this event appears to demonstrate how a reviewer’s experience colors their review.

[PNWTO]

I bet that TGC dude has a whole liturgy for inspecting 1911s and preventative maintenance.

But any other gun should be “perfect” and is just a trampoline for clout and views. DB has been giving his 856 some love on IG and I’ll choose to listen to him rather than TGC.

Edit: Joseph White, who has a lot of modern operational experience with revolvers, stepping in-

99704

[PNWTO]

Missed the edit window.

jetfire, silly question but will we ever see the red UL again? I dig it.

[SCCY Marshal]

...DB has been giving his 856 some love...

Claude Werner running a snub project with an 856 was no surprise but this sure is. Particularly trusting one enough to hand off to his better half.

[Kustom]

jetfire

Any chance some black 942s in 22LR will be hitting the stores in LA anytime soon? Thanks!

[Tamara]

I forgot to mention my favorite parts of the TGC video: dudes cowboy wrist-snapping the cylinder closed and—the actual host of a firearms YouTube channel—checking the “lockup” of a revolver without the trigger pulled to the rear.

These are levels of incompetence that are beyond parody for a gun channel.

I was gobsmacked.

[Joe in PNG]

I was gobsmacked.

And wrote a couple of good pieces about it as well:
Under the Influencer (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2023/01/under-influencer.html)
You gotta be smarter than the gun (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2023/01/you-gotta-be-smarter-than-gun.html)