Favorite .25’s experiences etc.

[Polecat]

You know you have them, maybe even put em in your pocket from time to time, but won’t admit it🙂 what are your experiences good and bad, do you reload for it? I recently bought a “gunsmith special” Bernardelli VB .25. It said “ missing firing pin” on the label. Aesthetically it was beautiful, smaller by a smidge than my Baby Browning. Well, on disassembly the firing oin was broken, the slide bolt / sear spring, cocking indicator spring were all missing. Got all the new parts, went to the range and when withdrew the slide and let it load “Boom” a huge KB with sharpnel! No injury, was at the range, bullet lodged in barrel. It obviously fired out of battery, case ruptured. Finally got stuck case out of the action, dislodged bullet from barrel. So, Somehow the sear spring fell out during reassembly, which basically didn’t allow allow sear to catch the firing pin and the firing pin was protuding and acting like an open bolt gun and boom!

Disassembled, reproduced problem, reassembled properly! Gonna try again in a day or two. I had an old VB than ran like a sewing machine. Nervous until I really vet this last one. Moral of story is just be so careful! I had almost chambered a round at home the other day prior to my range outing and would not have gone well as wife was home🙂

Honestly, these are novelties I just enjoy from a mechanical standpoint. Marvels of design, some better than others. I have owned a bunch. For me in quick summary the Berettas are flawless, 8 to 9 rounds with either DA/SA or SA your pick. The Baby Browning is a marvel, also runs like a swiss watch.

I was again inspired by JCN’s recent Walther Model 9 acqusition, and brief range report. That thing is tiny, now I want one!

Current loads suck, are anemic at 650 to 750 or so for 50gr FMJ. There is some room, as those more adventurous and with more fingers than I, have loaded to 900 fps without issue and some reports of 1100 to even 1300 fps is ome extreme.

Just curious of others good or bad experiences.

[fatdog]

I have a Colt Vest Pocket M1908 that has been passed down through my family. Over the years it has broken several parts and I have always been able to source replacements so it is in working order still. Trigger is awful, accuracy is minute of stop sign at 7 yards, performance aside, another experience I had with the same model/25 acp cartridge has lead me to the decision NEVER to throw it in my pocket for defensive purposes.

Summer 1977 I was working EMS in a small town in Central KY (Paris) and we got an attempted suicide by firearm call. Arrived on scene before the local PD did (and I eventually understood to NEVER arrive before them at any shooting scene, but that was another story). Very intoxicated large (guessing 240lbs) male patient in late 30's or early 40's. Conscious, in pain, small bullet entry wound immediately below navel, stellate exit wound above his buttocks. It was apparently not a perfect contact shot as there was no significant powder burning around the entry wound. He later admitted that he had shot himself, confirmed by several witnesses, and the .25 ACP Colt 1903 Vest Pocket that looked identical to mine was laying next to him on the ground with an empty case near by.

We transported him to the big ER in Lexington, he remained stable during transport, but in pain and a bit combative. I was used to fecal matter and more bleeding on that type of gunshot in that vicinity, but both wounds were not bleeding profusely. They took him to surgery and the next day we were back at that ER with another case and I asked (this was long before HIPPA and all that confidentiality stuff was so strict) and the ER doc told us the bullet had entered, struck his peritoneum, traveled all the way around his waist under the skin layer and exited in the back. Never penetrated his peritoneum wall at all.

That was the day I decided .25 ACP was only fit for killing mice, not for fighting. It made a big impression on me at that young age.

This family relic will remain a museum piece in the safe. Story was one of my uncle's came home from WWII and started gambling and going to card games a lot, and bought that gun to keep in his pocket, but my Grandfather took it away from him at some point.

[Joe in PNG]

I've noted my fascination with pretty much all the various and sundry .25acp prewar pocket poppers. At one point, I pocked a pair of Baby Brownings, but sold the one and traded the other for a Colt 1903 32. I actually made money on that deal, as I bought that particular Baby for $120 because it needed to be re-blued.

I currently just have a FN 1906... which is basically the same as the Colt. Neat, but I get cut up every time I shoot it.

I'd also jump on any reasonably priced .25acp Velo Dog revolver if I come across one.

[spyderco monkey]

You know you have them, maybe even put em in your pocket from time to time, but won’t admit it🙂 what are your experiences good and bad, do you reload for it?

Current loads suck, are anemic at 650 to 750 or so for 50gr FMJ. There is some room, as those more adventurous and with more fingers than I, have loaded to 900 fps without issue and some reports of 1100 to even 1300 fps is ome extreme.

Just curious of others good or bad experiences.

My buddy is mechanical engineer and dedicated reloader; loads all sorts of boutique weirdo cartridges. Everything from 5.7 to 9x25 dillon to .45 automag, he's loading for all of them.

Anyway, he ended up with a brace of .25 Berretta Jetfires, which are very strong, high quality .25's, and so he starts loading .25 acp.

He figured out that given the tiny case capacity of the .25, and its limited hoop stress on the chamber due to the narrow cartridge, the sturdy Jetfire was nearly unkillable. So he began working up +p and eventually +p+ and then ".25 Major" loads for the Jetfire.

The ".25 Major" loads were 50gr @ 1100fps and 35gr @ 1300fps.

These were around 2gr or less total of powder, which filled the tiny .25 case to the rim, so the loads ended up as compressed powder loads. So very high pressure, but relatively low energy due to the tiny overall powder charge. Basically like a .32 acp powder charge in a .25 case.

He's fired over 1000x of those .25 Major loads from his Jetfire, and its still working fine, and brass showed no ill effect.

This has convinced me that a ".25 AutoMag" cartridge built for modern pistols could be pretty cool for a high capacity pocket pistol.

[DDTSGM]

I've had this one since 1977:

94341

Carried it in a handcuff case with KTW(?) teflon coated rounds. Horrible trigger but shot every time. Terribly advanced for the time - shot it one handed, laying suoine, etc. on B-27ish aiming for head. Head accurate at 3 yards - maybe 4 supine.

Oh, how nice to be young with nary a clue as to what you really don't know.

[spyderco monkey]

In terms of the coolest .25, the Lerker takes the cake.

20rd .25 ACP machine pistol firing 1200rpm designed for CCW.

https://i0.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Lercker20.jpg

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/lercker-machine-pistol/

https://preview.redd.it/3oossm3tgcl51.jpg?width=1072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&8e6f22a6

[Polecat]

My buddy is mechanical engineer and dedicated reloader; loads all sorts of boutique weirdo cartridges. Everything from 5.7 to 9x25 dillon to .45 automag, he's loading for all of them.

Anyway, he ended up with a brace of .25 Berretta Jetfires, which are very strong, high quality .25's, and so he starts loading .25 acp.

He figured out that given the tiny case capacity of the .25, and its limited hoop stress on the chamber due to the narrow cartridge, the sturdy Jetfire was nearly unkillable. So he began working up +p and eventually +p+ and then ".25 Major" loads for the Jetfire.

The ".25 Major" loads were 50gr @ 1100fps and 35gr @ 1300fps.

These were around 2gr or less total of powder, which filled the tiny .25 case to the rim, so the loads ended up as compressed powder loads. So very high pressure, but relatively low energy due to the tiny overall powder charge. Basically like a .32 acp powder charge in a .25 case.

He's fired over 1000x of those .25 Major loads from his Jetfire, and its still working fine, and brass showed no ill effect.

This has convinced me that a ".25 AutoMag" cartridge built for modern pistols could be pretty cool for a high capacity pocket pistol.



Yeah, I recall seeing some bold loads. What’s frustrating to me is Hornady, federal et.al. Come out with “FTX critical defense” and they are like proud of 6-8” of penetration. I mean where is the 40 grain truncated solid doing an honest 900 + from these tiny guns! C’mon guys get with it. I hav finaly assembled the components just haven’t had time lately, but it is on my to do.

[DrkBlue]

I
That was the day I decided .25 ACP was only fit for killing mice, not for fighting. It made a big impression on me at that young age.

This family relic will remain a museum piece in the safe. Story was one of my uncle's came home from WWII and started gambling and going to card games a lot, and bought that gun to keep in his pocket, but my Grandfather took it away from him at some point.

Great shooting story.

Similar backstory to the 6.35 my Grandmother kept for about 70 years.
She was in Europe in the later 1940s with my Grandfather, occupying the former Germans. My Grandfather gave her a pistola in case the Werewolves came out.

The other part of the story was that they were friendly to the still starving locals. Grandma never was terribly explicit, but in case things went south, such as partisan warfare or the Russians getting confused about the border location, the plan seemed to hideout with the locals. I suspect Grandma also would have capped the first Russian or two coming through the door. With a .25, that would have likely just aggravated Ivan.

Later in life, she helped Austrian acquaintances emigrate to the US. And hosted a lot of Japanese visitors. And then the SE Asian boat people. She was pretty magnanimous after seeing the ruins of Europe in post-war period.

[Joe in PNG]

I have a huge regret on passing up a nice DW Ortges .25 back in 2020 for under $300. But I was using that money to get a HiPower, so it kinda balances out.

[ACP230]

I shot one owned by a friend many years ago. Target was an
empty oil can. The kind made of cardboard with a foil liner. I
shot from about six yards. The gun was one of the larger .25s I'd
seen.

I popped about seven rounds at the can. It didn't fall over, or even
move as far as I could see. When the mag was empty we walked up
to the can. Every round had hit and passed through it. I expected
more reaction, even from a .25.

Despite that I bought a Bauer later. It looks like the Browning Baby.
But, doesn't feed the last round most of the time and has been disappointing
to shoot overall. Can't remember what I was thinking when I bought it.

[Duelist]

First .25 I ever saw was a Baby Browning a Texas lady kept on top of her refridgerator. We never fired it.

Another Texas lady kept one in her apron pocket at the restaurant she and her husband owned. And chased the occasional miscreant out of the restaurant with it.

The only one I’ve ever fired was a tiny Colt. Cute, and worked.

Closest thing I’ve got to one is a P32.

It must be the time of year, but when I saw the thread title, I said, “oh, I have a .243, I don’t need a .25, even if it was a .257 Roberts.”

[spyderco monkey]

Yeah, I recall seeing some bold loads. What’s frustrating to me is Hornady, federal et.al. Come out with “FTX critical defense” and they are like proud of 6-8” of penetration. I mean where is the 40 grain truncated solid doing an honest 900 + from these tiny guns! C’mon guys get with it. I hav finaly assembled the components just haven’t had time lately, but it is on my to do.

I am a bit surprised we haven't seen Underwood or Buffalo Bore do something like a .25 ACP +P hardcast load.

Probably just the total lack of modern .25's, and the disproportionate number of old / super janky .25s on the market is whats holding them back.

A 6.35x21, in a 9x19 overall length, with a 50kpsi pressure, would make for a fine modern micro auto similar to my buddies ridiculous handloads.

Have a double stack LCP with 15+1 in the pocket of 50gr @ 1100fps, edging out .22 mag from a J-frame ballistically while maintaining low recoil.

[Joe in PNG]

I am a bit surprised we haven't seen Underwood or Buffalo Bore do something like a .25 ACP +P hardcast load.

Probably just the total lack of modern .25's, and the disproportionate number of old / super janky .25s on the market is whats holding them back.

A 6.35x21, in a 9x19 overall length, with a 50kpsi pressure, would make for a fine modern micro auto similar to my buddies ridiculous handloads.

Have a double stack LCP with 15+1 in the pocket of 50gr @ 1100fps, edging out .22 mag from a J-frame ballistically while maintaining low recoil.

I believe a modernized, hammerless Velo Dog type revolver, with folding DAO trigger shooting a wadcutter from a .22 Win Mag length cartridge would make for a cool BUG.

[BillSWPA]

While in law school, I bought an Intratec (if I recall correctly) .25. I took it to an informal shooting range. Not knowing what I didn’t know, I set up a target at 25 yards. I missed that target far more than I hit it. Two FMJ rounds hit my wood target frame, penetrated 3/16 inch, and fell to the ground undamaged. The gun also failed to feed twice with JHP. Despite being DAO, the owners manual did not recommend carry with a loaded chamber. All of the above caused me to sell the gun to a pawnshop.

A few years later, I took a hunter safety class so that I could obtain a hunting license in the event of an anticipated invitation from a relative to hunt rabbits. The instructors had various guns on display, including a .25 of unknown make with a missing slide. That gun had been purchased by a husband for his wife. When the wife questioned its size and usefulness, the husband said he would make it as powerful as a .38. He filled some cases with powder and seated the bullets. When they went to try the new loads, the wife, being smarter than her husband, said “You go first, honey.” The first shot launched the slide into his cheek, causing it to bounce off and keep going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Catshooter]

My Bauer is about as accurate as one would suspect.

But my Beretta in .25 will do right about two inches at 20 yards. I'm sure Beretta has made some unreliable, inaccurate pistols, but I've never seen one.

[feudist]

I am a bit surprised we haven't seen Underwood or Buffalo Bore do something like a .25 ACP +P hardcast load.

Probably just the total lack of modern .25's, and the disproportionate number of old / super janky .25s on the market is whats holding them back.

A 6.35x21, in a 9x19 overall length, with a 50kpsi pressure, would make for a fine modern micro auto similar to my buddies ridiculous handloads.

Have a double stack LCP with 15+1 in the pocket of 50gr @ 1100fps, edging out .22 mag from a J-frame ballistically while maintaining low recoil.

Given a rapidly aging population, the increase in Constitutional Carry and Shall Issue CCW permits and (yet again) spiking violent crime I think the Industry should be all over something like that.

[Rex G]

A tip-up-barrel Beretta is a tremendously fun, well-made .25 auto-loader. I owned one, briefly, in the Eighties. I may do so, again. I still have my Seecamp LWS-25, which I bought, in the Eighties. Its firing pin broke, in the Nineties, at which time it became a training gun, to occasionally test whether my rookie trainees were properly searching the rear passenger compartment of the patrol car, at the start of the shift. (I totally removed the firing pin, its spring, and its retaining bushing, rendering the weapon totally inert. Eventually, a training sergeant told me to stop using a real gun, as a training aid, no matter how inert.)

Someday, i might see if the new Seecamp company can replace the parts, but there is no hurry, as .25 ACP ammo is neither more plentiful, nor less expensive, than .32 ACP. After my LWS-25 broke its firing pin, I upgraded to the LWS-32.

[41magfan]

Back in the 80's, I pocket carried a Beretta 950 (cocked & locked) with these specialty loads. The bullet was a lightweight machined, solid copper hollow point traveling over 1100 fps. The initial offering was constructed of Ti or some other exotic alloy that ATF ruled was armor piercing.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/6VcaZJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl6VcaZJj)

If I was forced to use a .25 Auto today, I'd load it with Hornady's 35 gr XTP.

[Polecat]

I tried those old PPS loads back in 9os, I think they were called MMC? The base of the bullet blew out and left the rest of the copper jacket adhering to chamber. Took me a while to figure out what happened, and bit longer to get it out of chamber. I put a screw in to grip the sidewall and the bullet came out pretty easy.

I have some Glaser and magsafe I am gonna experiment with. One is 22 grain, the other 35, both are abive 1100 fps!

[Coyotesfan97]

A tip-up-barrel Beretta is a tremendously fun, well-made .25 auto-loader. I owned one, briefly, in the Eighties. I may do so, again. I still have my Seecamp LWS-25, which I bought, in the Eighties. Its firing pin broke, in the Nineties, at which time it became a training gun, to occasionally test whether my rookie trainees were properly searching the rear passenger compartment of the patrol car, at the start of the shift. (I totally removed the firing pin, its spring, and its retaining bushing, rendering the weapon totally inert. Eventually, a training sergeant told me to stop using a real gun, as a training aid, no matter how inert.)

Someday, i might see if the new Seecamp company can replace the parts, but there is no hurry, as .25 ACP ammo is neither more plentiful, nor less expensive, than .32 ACP. After my LWS-25 broke its firing pin, I upgraded to the LWS-32.

When I was in Special Investigations they had a number of Beretta .25 tip ups for issuing to the UC guys. When we went to Glocks the department decided to sell them to the Detectives. I put in for one but didn’t win a slot in the raffle.

[Polecat]

Buffalo bore just released some .25 ACP loads! Heavy 60 Gr hardcast at 850FPS, and a 50Gr FMJ at 875FPS.

[OlongJohnson]

I had an itch for a .25-204 cat on a Howa Mini action a couple years back. Still think it would be a brilliant little rifle for little whitetails.

[AMC]

When I first came on the job in '91, a lot of the older, veteran cops were carrying tilt barrel Berettas in .22 and .25...or of they were a little more with it a .380 PPK or J Frame. The little Berettas were super popular, and all those dudes recommended I get one for a backup or off duty.

Fast forward a few years and I'm working in a busy district in the middle of the early 90's Crack wars. Partner and I get a call of a person calling for help in an alley off of Lower Haight Street. We roll in, find an open garage door and investigate. Garage has stairs in the back, leading to an apartment building on Haight Street. At the top of the stairs we find a Samoan dude wrapped in a carpet for dumping, shot multiple times in the back of the head. But he's got a pulse, so we call for the medics. Dude woke up in the operating room at the hospital and started fighting with the docs. You guessed it....shot with a .25.

Turns out it was the classic dope deal gone bad
One of the apartments was a combo stash house/rap recording studio (not kidding). Guy was shot in the apartment, and his 'friends' wrapped him in a carpet to carry him down to the garage. Guess he woke up at the top of the stairs and started screaming, hence the 911 call. Bad guys panicked and dropped him and fled the scene.

A side note: there was one room locked in the apartment that we didn't initially get into....put a gun it till we got a key from the manager. There were 3 large Rottweilers inside. They didn't make a sound....until we opened the door. Good times.

[spyderco monkey]

Buffalo bore just released some .25 ACP loads! Heavy 60 Gr hardcast at 850FPS, and a 50Gr FMJ at 875FPS.

Awesome. That 60gr hardcast is a game changer for the .25.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=605

Jetfire .25
60gr @ 850fps = 96ft/lbs

vs

Ruger LCP 22
40gr CCI Mini Mag @ 892fps = 71ft/lbs

Not to mention the .25 is Hardcast, and centerfire.

[D-der]

I have a Jet Fire that hasn't been out of the safe
in 25 years, used to carry it with the copper HP's.
I think I'll try the 60gr hard cast for shits and grin's.
Wonder how that would compare to .380 fmj in an LCP...
which hasn't been out of the safe in probably 6-7 years.

[jh9]

Awesome. That 60gr hardcast is a game changer for the .25.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=605

It got me thinking stupid thoughts at first but then...


These two loads are within SAAMI pressure specs and can be fired in any all-steel pistol that is in ordinary firing condition.


Beretta model 21A, 2.4-inch barrel

Wait... isn't the 21 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_21A_Bobcat)...


The frame is made out of aluminum alloy

:confused:

[spyderco monkey]

It got me thinking stupid thoughts at first but then...





Wait... isn't the 21 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_21A_Bobcat)...



:confused:

I think the frame warning is to not fire them out of zinc diecast 'saturday night specials' which made a up a large number of the .25 market.

My buddy fired 1000+ .25 +p+ 50gr @ 1100fps handloads from his Jetfire. Those things are indestructible.

At $35 per 20 for the 60gr Hardcast, the ammo required to damage the Jetfire would greatly exceed the pistols value.

[Malamute]

...It must be the time of year, but when I saw the thread title, I said, “oh, I have a .243, I don’t need a .25, even if it was a .257 Roberts.”


I had an itch for a .25-204 cat on a Howa Mini action a couple years back. Still think it would be a brilliant little rifle for little whitetails.

I saw the title and was looking forward to some 257 Roberts hunting tales. :(

I dont know the 25-204, but a 257 with 20" barrel (in a Ruger 77 tang safety with good irons and LPV to be even more specific) would make a nice walk around gun where grizzlies werent a high likelihood of encountering. I think my gimpy shoulder should be able to handle it.

Sort of on topic, I knew a girl that had a Raven 25, I took her shooting at the local cinder pit and junk dump spot near Flagstaff. There was a target taped to an old car door, i told her to shoot at it, for each shot there was two holes, one going in, the other bouncing back out. That didnt last long. Id check her guns now and the when i saw her. Once her raven was sort of gummy feeling. I took the slide off, it had white sludgey goo inside, she said she was looking at it admiring it in her car eating ice cream when...she wiped it down on the outside but didnt take it apart. She didnt think Id find it, but knew Id mention it if i did. Its been nice to be able to ask now and then if she keeps the ice cream cleaned out of her guns.

[OlongJohnson]

.25-204 is just .204 Ruger necked up. Of course, you start with.222 Mag brass to reduce the total working of the necks.

It approximately duplicates.250 Savage ballistics. Your gimpy shoulder could definitely handle it.

[Coyotesfan97]

I’d completely forgotten about this incident but this thread reminded me. I was working swings in our downtown district many years ago we got a shooting call. I was one of the first onscene and helped clear the house. Suspect is gone but the victim is lying on the floor with a small black hole dead center in his chest directly in line with his nipples. It’s not bleeding a lot.

He was saying he was going to die but I was able to calm him down a little telling him it didn’t look too bad fires on the way etc. But I’m looking at him center punched and I’m inclined to agree. Paramedics came in and treated him shortly then transported him. He survived. I later learned it was a .25 Auto he was shot with, think Raven, and the bullet lodged in his sternum. Now thinking back on it I was probably looking at the base of the bullet in the wound.

I remember it was funny too because the RP was still on 911 with the dispatcher. If there was an open line we liked to give the code four over the phone. The RP didn’t want to give it to my normally calm and quiet squad mate. He turned red and was yelling at her to give him the fucking phone! I kind of did the double take on it but it worked. She gave him the phone.

[HeavyDuty]

Long before IL CHL my 950BS got loads of carry. I usually stoked it with a Glaser in the chamber followed by ball in the magazine for reliability and stuck it in my pocket behind a folded handkerchief.

[Polecat]

I wish the ammo companies would pay attention to it. I do ‘t think they have to squeeze 1000-1200 FPS out of, but simply better. Flat truncated FMJ, that can penetrate better, then truly tiny pocket gun.

[feudist]

I wish the ammo companies would pay attention to it. I do ‘t think they have to squeeze 1000-1200 FPS out of, but simply better. Flat truncated FMJ, that can penetrate better, then truly tiny pocket gun.

Agreed.
As my decrepitude goes exponential, I'm being forced to rely on pocket carry and lightly recoiling cartridges to avoid hip, back and hand pain.
I'm at the tail of the Baby Boomers, so I know there are a lot of coots older than me.
A real pocket pistol caliber that has centerfire ignition and penetrates 4 layer denim calibrated ordnance gel to 12-15"- reliably, seems like a no-brainer to me. A 50-70 grain .25-.32 caliber at around 900-1000 FPS should keep recoil very manageable. I wouldn't design it for much expansion beyond making it become a ragged cutting shape, much like .22WRM Gold Dots show in the Lucky Gunner tests.
An LCP2 chambered in this would be the cat's meow, IMHO. The LEM-like trigger, 8-10 shots and decent sights under 12 ounces?
Take my money! I'd buy 3.

[Polecat]

Agreed.
As my decrepitude goes exponential, I'm being forced to rely on pocket carry and lightly recoiling cartridges to avoid hip, back and hand pain.
I'm at the tail of the Baby Boomers, so I know there are a lot of coots older than me.
A real pocket pistol caliber that has centerfire ignition and penetrates 4 layer denim calibrated ordnance gel to 12-15"- reliably, seems like a no-brainer to me. A 50-70 grain .25-.32 caliber at around 900-1000 FPS should keep recoil very manageable. I wouldn't design it for much expansion beyond making it become a ragged cutting shape, much like .22WRM Gold Dots show in the Lucky Gunner tests.
An LCP2 chambered in this would be the cat's meow, IMHO. The LEM-like trigger, 8-10 shots and decent sights under 12 ounces?
Take my money! I'd buy 3.


Yeah, I bet they could squeeze quite a few .25 rounds in even a regular size LCP, maybe a smidge wider. Ruger was supposed to offer a .32 but the LCPII .22 is what showed up. It is a great little gun in its own right. It holds 10 and 12 .22s, wouldn’t be a stretch for a .25 also!

I love my little .32 Taurus TCP, it is waaaay milder than my LCP.380.

[Joe Mac]

It got me thinking stupid thoughts at first but then...


“It’s a fine line between stupid and clever.”

- David St. Hubbins

[Stephanie B]

On the utility of a Jetfire, there is Don't Bring a Knife to a Coffee Fight (https://www.gunnuts.net/2009/10/26/dont-bring-a-knife-to-a-coffee-fight/)

LawDog had a post about an old deputy, Mr. Ned, which is somewhat relevant, but his site is being hit with some asshattery and I can't find it.

[spyderco monkey]

Agreed.
As my decrepitude goes exponential, I'm being forced to rely on pocket carry and lightly recoiling cartridges to avoid hip, back and hand pain.
I'm at the tail of the Baby Boomers, so I know there are a lot of coots older than me.
A real pocket pistol caliber that has centerfire ignition and penetrates 4 layer denim calibrated ordnance gel to 12-15"- reliably, seems like a no-brainer to me. A 50-70 grain .25-.32 caliber at around 900-1000 FPS should keep recoil very manageable. I wouldn't design it for much expansion beyond making it become a ragged cutting shape, much like .22WRM Gold Dots show in the Lucky Gunner tests.
An LCP2 chambered in this would be the cat's meow, IMHO. The LEM-like trigger, 8-10 shots and decent sights under 12 ounces?
Take my money! I'd buy 3.

Yep, this is something with huge appeal that I'm amazed hasn't been done. Something with .22lr like shootability, but much better ballistics.

-Older folks
-Women
-Novice shooters
-Experts looking for a easy to shoot very well pocket pistol/backup gun

All would love a high cap, low recoil, lightweight pocket pistol that consistently penetrates 12-15". Something that equals of exceeds .22 mag from a J frame, but in a LCP format.

A rimless +p/+p+ .25 ACP, ideally lengthened to .380 or 9mm COL, would easily do this. And being rimless, unlike .22lr this '6.35 Automag' would work beautifully in double stack mags. A LCP double stack might fit over 15rd, given the 10+1 the single stack .22lr holds.

[Polecat]

Shot just 20 of each type of the Buffalo bore to assess function. They ran flawlessly in my Beretta 21 and 950. Just a smidgen spunkier than some 50 Gr American Eagle. Didn’t think the flat nose 60 grain would run, but no problem. Sample size was small, but both have same OAL specs as factory FMJ. Years ago Georgia arms used to make 50Gr FMJ at 800 fps.

[feudist]

On the utility of a Jetfire, there is Don't Bring a Knife to a Coffee Fight (https://www.gunnuts.net/2009/10/26/dont-bring-a-knife-to-a-coffee-fight/)

LawDog had a post about an old deputy, Mr. Ned, which is somewhat relevant, but his site is being hit with some asshattery and I can't find it.

This simply can't be harped on enough: The primary attribute of any weapon is its presence.
From there, it just gets better.
Spray.
Knife.
.22 Short NAA revolver
*
*
*
Roland Special
Beretta 1301
Years ago I noticed a motto painted above the exits of a Sam's Club store: "The main thing is to keep the main thing, the main thing."

[Lex Luthier]

For what it's worth, one of the two firearms in my possession to have actually been used to foil a criminal attack is a 950BS Jetfire that I bought for my mom in the late 1980s. I was present when she was accosted by a seeming vagrant while taking her hair salon cash bag to the bank. He had walked over fast and leaned in her drivers'-side car window to put his hand on the cash bag in her lap. The presentation of the Beretta about two inches up his nose brought silence. The snick of the safety being disengaged brought an apology and a hasty retreat. He would have gotten a snootful of HeavyDuty 's load of Glaser/FMJ as that's what the cops she knew told her would be the best thing.
I still have probably that same mag full of ammo in the vault with the pistol, though it has had a few boxes of Winchester & Remington FMJs through it between then and now.

[Doc_Glock]

Awesome. That 60gr hardcast is a game changer for the .25.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=605

Jetfire .25
60gr @ 850fps = 96ft/lbs

vs

Ruger LCP 22
40gr CCI Mini Mag @ 892fps = 71ft/lbs

Not to mention the .25 is Hardcast, and centerfire.

Wish I had known about this before I sold my Jetfire. That pistol was extremely reliable, unlike the .22 versions of the Beretta.

[HeavyDuty]

Wish I had known about this before I sold my Jetfire. That pistol was extremely reliable, unlike the .22 versions of the Beretta.

I probably only have around 300 lifetime rounds through mine since I bought it new in the mid 90s, but I can honestly say I’ve never had a malfunction with mine - for a weenie pocket peashooter that isn’t bad.

[Doc_Glock]

I probably only have around 300 lifetime rounds through mine since I bought it new in the mid 90s, but I can honestly say I’ve never had a malfunction with mine - for a weenie pocket peashooter that isn’t bad.

The one I had was my dad's. I took it to the range with about 300 rounds of janky, 40 year old .25 ammo that was in ziplocks and otherwise stored. I did not clean it prior.

It fired every single round with no malfunctions whatsoever.

I just hated the .25 ballistics and the 950BS also gave me a little slide bite, so I sold it.

I tried a Bobcat 21A and while I loved the ergonomics, I could never get it reliable. Sold it eventually.

Currently the LCP II .22 is the .22 du jour and it is about 99% reliable. That doesn't sound terribly bad, but the failures are random enough to make me not trust the gun.

My LCP Max though, when I clean it every thousand rounds and change springs every 1500 rounds is well over 99.9% reliable. It has earned it's place of the pocket despite not being that fun to shoot.

[Polecat]

So far, the Berettas are my hands down favorites, not the smallest, but the best mix if lightweight 11.5oz or 9oz, 9 +1. Great DA in my older 21 that has yet to even bobble. Easy to fire with one hand, accurat at intended ranges of about 10 yards. Mostly practice at 3-5 yards, where in it most practical. Surreptitious draws, single handed use, close up. Yeah they have their place.

I am trying to find a sear spring for my little Bernadelli, I lost while cleaning. It was reliable super accurate and tiny. My lightweight Baby Browning is about 6 oz, and crazy reliable. I have a little CZ45 that I am in process of vetting. I think it is the perfect .25, as DAO, but very manageable, accurate even with just a groove sight. I am replacing mags, springs to get it to 100%.

[D-der]

I'm going to be looking at rotator cuff surgery on my right shoulder in the not too distant future, I'm thinking the Jetfire with the 60gr BB might be a manageable off hand pocket carry option for several months.
Time to focus on off hand 3-7 yd's ...
Hope to improve beyond just plain sucking.

[Stephanie B]

On the utility of a Jetfire, there is Don't Bring a Knife to a Coffee Fight (https://www.gunnuts.net/2009/10/26/dont-bring-a-knife-to-a-coffee-fight/)

LawDog had a post about an old deputy, Mr. Ned, which is somewhat relevant, but his site is being hit with some asshattery and I can't find it.

It's cleared up and I found the post. (https://thelawdogfiles.com/2006/11/there-i-was_15.html)

On another note, LawDog is apparently being fucked with by a DA trying to make some hay out of bullshit and he needs help with legal fees (https://onlygunsandmoney.com/2022/11/03/lawdog-needs-our-help.html).