Ruger SFAR (Small frame AR in .308)

[Bigghoss]

If I'm understanding this right, it's basically an AR15 with an extended magwell to accommodate the .308 cartridge instead of being an AR10. I think POF or somebody already did this but you don't hear anything about it anywhere. Lightweight semi-auto .308 for $1200 MSRP, might make a good semi-auto hunting rifle that takes common mags but maybe not a full-on battle rifle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP9UCDbQ3Ek

https://ruger.com/products/sfar/models.html

[GJM]

6.8 pounds -- if this is reliable, I would love to have one for a walking around rifle in AK.

[DamonL]

Price is right, too.

[Bergeron]

No kidding, $1200 is an incredible deal on a small frame .308- that said- do we know what parts are AR-15-common, what parts are Ruger-specific, and what parts might be large-frame-particular?

[mtnbkr]

First gun I've been tempted by in a while.

Chris

[Default.mp3]

I wonder when the small frame .308 Win AR will actually take off, and if there's any inherent short comings to the idea, since the likes of H&K, KAC, DD, and LMT have all stuck with the large frame format. DPMS/RemDef, Savage, Adams Arms, and POF have tried it, and they never really seem to have taken off.


6.8 pounds -- if this is reliable, I would love to have one for a walking around rifle in AK.Have you seen the F4 Defense small frame? https://www.f4defense.com/product/f4-nighthawk/

[LockedBreech]

I just read about this one, I don't own a .308 yet and I've had good luck with Ruger, so count me in the "very interested" column.

As has been alluded to, I imagine it will not share all that much parts commonality with either AR-10s or AR-15s, so customization and parts options may be limited versus a standard AR-10 or AR-15, but Ruger is pretty solid about taking care of their stuff if it breaks.

[mtnbkr]

I was telling my wife about this and after she said "another AR?", she relented and said I should get it.

Crap. Now I need $1200. Anyone want to buy a surly teenager? :D

Chris

[awp_101]

surly teenager?
That’s redundant.

[littlejerry]

Curious to see if the barrel and bolt follow an existing pattern.

Also curious about the inevitable 6.5CM version.

[1911Nut]

Really looking forward to some field test/performance reviews on this rifle.

[okie john]

They've got a 20" version for drill & ceremony!


Okie John

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

This looks really nice, good thing I can't afford it or I'd be tempted to grab one.

[LockedBreech]

I was telling my wife about this and after she said "another AR?", she relented and said I should get it.

Crap. Now I need $1200. Anyone want to buy a surly teenager? :D

Chris

I also have the problem of a too-enabling significant other (it's a good problem, that's why she got proposed to).

Case in point, on August 9 I decided to go for one full year with no fast food or junky chips (Cheetos, etc.) because I love both and spend too much on both and I'm about 20-30 pounds overweight. In exchange, if I don't break for 52 weeks I get a WBP Fox AK. Already bought ammo and magazines so I'm committed.

When I hit the 3-week mark she said "You've done enough, you should get it." Leaving me to insist that no, no, I have to do what I said BEFORE the reward.

Then when the Beretta CX4 was on sale for $599 for Labor Day, and I already have a large stock of 15, 18, and 30-round 92FS magazines for it, it was up to me to resist because she was like "You should get that while you wait for the AK." This, while she is well aware I have a Glock 22 Gen 5 inbound.

I am not sure how to approach her about being LESS supportive, the relationship books don't cover it...

[Bigghoss]

Wow, I didn't realize this had been tried as much as it has or that there would be this much interest in it. I just assumed having AR15 sized bolt and barrel extension would make it less durable, like how you hear about 7.62x39 AR15s having bolt lugs shear off prematurely. I've never had one of either so I'm only going off what I've read around the interwebz.

What I do know is that I very recently got an Aero Precision M5 put together and spent about more money to get a heavier gun with worse furniture.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m just concerned about how much proprietary stuff this will have. I may do better with a budget AR-10 like a 716i or M&P.

[LittleLebowski]

How different is this from the time DPMS did it?

[ECVMatt]

I am interested in this one.

I would love to have a lighter weight rifle for hiking and backpacking in .308.

Adjustable gas system is interesting as well.

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

[Navin Johnson]

Are the 5.56 rifles up to par?

[SecondsCount]

Are the 5.56 rifles up to par?

The only experience I have is from a friend who bought the piston SR 556 about 12 years ago when they first came out. It ran out of the box but was on the heavy side. Fit and finish were nice and it came with Troy sights. My understanding is that have gone to all DI now.

[Oldherkpilot]

I was telling my wife about this and after she said "another AR?", she relented and said I should get it.

Crap. Now I need $1200. Anyone want to buy a surly teenager? :D

Chris

I'm afraid the market is saturated at the moment.😁

[Oldherkpilot]

I'm still waiting for the last .30 NATO rifle was marketing, the Big Mini.

[GJM]

On GunBroker for buy now of $999.

[GyroF-16]

On GunBroker for buy now of $999.

I’m very interested in this, and you are an evil enabler.

Still waiting to hear reviews from folk I trust, though.

[LockedBreech]

On GunBroker for buy now of $999.

Gotta say, I've always liked HK and Ruger for this. They don't announce it and then say "Good luck finding one" like most brands, they announce and say "oh and we already have them on their way to the stores."

[LittleLebowski]

I checked the weight on this, thinking my beloved (super accurate and reliable) LaRue 6.5 Grendel would be lighter. NOPE.

[Dov]

Waiting for a review

[drummer]

How different is this from the time DPMS did it?

With the splitting up of Remington Arms, I have to wonder if this is based, at least loosely, on the DPMS G2. Ruger may have even hired some of Remington's engineers.

At one point, Remington submitted an upgraded version of the G2 for some military trials. I had always wondered how it did, and if they would offer it commercially. That was before the bankruptcy...

[Default.mp3]

At one point, Remington submitted an upgraded version of the G2 for some military trials. I had always wondered how it did, and if they would offer it commercially. That was before the bankruptcy... The R10 was allegedly procured by the FBI and DEA for DMR use, which I guess it kinda close to the CSASS's proposed role that they didn't win for the Army trials. Haven't heard much about how the R10s performed.

[Willard]

I just assumed having AR15 sized bolt and barrel extension would make it less durable, like how you hear about 7.62x39 AR15s having bolt lugs shear off prematurely.

Like what I'm seeing, but like you, durability on similar sized bolt in 7.62 concerns me.

[pangloss]

Like what I'm seeing, but like you, durability on siilar sized bolt in 7.62 concerns me.

Durability, or lack thereof, of the bolt is the first thing I thought of when I saw this. I wonder how many rounds Ruger put their test rifles through. 10/22's aside, when one says "Ruger," "high volume shooter" is not a phrase that comes quickly to mind. Regardless, I hope this turns out to be a great rifle. I'd love one in 6mm Creedmoor.

[HCM]

With the splitting up of Remington Arms, I have to wonder if this is based, at least loosely, on the DPMS G2. Ruger may have even hired some of Remington's engineers.

At one point, Remington submitted an upgraded version of the G2 for some military trials. I had always wondered how it did, and if they would offer it commercially. That was before the bankruptcy...


The R10 was allegedly procured by the FBI and DEA for DMR use, which I guess it kinda close to the CSASS's proposed role that they didn't win for the Army trials. Haven't heard much about how the R10s performed.

Some were procured by both agencies. They were intended for DMR and / or "Heavy carbine" use.

However, shortly after the initial procurement some issues were identified and the guns were recalled. Our local DEA office still had a few of them as of a couple years ago.

It's worth noting that until the bankruptcy, there was a significant difference between Remington Defense and "Fudd" Remington / DPMS et al both as a company and in the quality of their products.

From an older thread:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51327-Dark-Star-Industries-6-7-lb-small-frame-308/page2


Around 2016/17 FBI and DEA jointly tested small frame AR-10s in 308. My understanding on the was they were to supplement some existing full-size AR 10 for use in remote/rural areas.

A Remington Defense variant of the DPMSG2 rifle was selected, They were also supposed to be made available for individual agent purchase. Long story short after successfully passing testing the initial production guns had issues, and were recalled. A coworker had one on order for 18 months and finally gave up and bought a POF 308. Remington subsequently collapsed and dissolved.

Co-worker threw a 1-8 VCOG on the small frame POF and has been quite happy with it.


https://youtu.be/eqiOKpkE_Ew


https://youtu.be/ihOVdsT_lnw

[DamonL]

On GunBroker for buy now of $999.

To put this in perspective, this is a similar cost to a Colt 6920.

[GJM]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/09/08/smith-wesson-announces-mp-10-volunteer-x-rifles/

Never late to the party, S&W introduces a new model M&P10, with an empty weight around 9 pounds. Maybe they got confused between the number 6 and 9.

[DamonL]

9 is 6, upside down. LOL. :)

[idahojess]

The newer M&P 10's sure look like they have a thicker barrel profile than the one I've had since 2013. Much less taper.

Mine's pretty light. I think they were originally marketed as being under 8 pounds.

Changing the cudgel of a muzzle brake/flashhider probably drops 2 pounds. :)

Here is a pic I found off the internet from this 2015 article. https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/smith-wesson-m-p10-1/

94098

[TicTacticalTimmy]

How different is this from the time DPMS did it?


With the splitting up of Remington Arms, I have to wonder if this is based, at least loosely, on the DPMS G2. Ruger may have even hired some of Remington's engineers.

At one point, Remington submitted an upgraded version of the G2 for some military trials. I had always wondered how it did, and if they would offer it commercially. That was before the bankruptcy...

No. From everything I have seen, this is basically a copy of the POF Revolution/Rogue. The Revolution uses literal AR-15 sized receivers, with an AR-15 sized bolt carrier. The DPMS G2 is basically half the weight/length difference of the Revolution vs a Large Frame AR10.

This is literally about the same weight as an AR15 before you add the mag.

Personally I have been hugely interested in small frame AR10's for years but have yet to pull the trigger. The POF rogue has looked like the best option but the occasional nightmare story about their QC/CS has gotten me to stay away. I think theres a very high chance I will end up with one of these. On paper it checks off all the boxes and yet is $500 less than a Rogue.

Really hoping someone reputable gets one of these and runs the shit out of it so we can see if it really is as durable as a large frame AR10. I do like all the emergency venting holes that Ruger added in case of a kaboom. Also, the POF gets by with an AR15 sized bolt carrier because they use some kind of super duper alloy. Is Ruger using some other proprietary alloy, and if not what have they done to increase the strength of the BCG?

[DamonL]

In the video in the first post, Ruger says they use a high nickel alloy in the bolt and barrel extension for added strength.

[awp_101]

I've always heard Ruger's secret weapon in making 6 shot .454 revolvers was the Carpenter 158 steel used for the cylinder. Since they already have an "in" with Carpenter, I wonder if they were involved with whatever this wonder alloy for the bolt and extension might be?

[psalms144.1]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/09/08/smith-wesson-announces-mp-10-volunteer-x-rifles/

Never late to the party, S&W introduces a new model M&P10, with an empty weight around 9 pounds. Maybe they got confused between the number 6 and 9.And STILL comes with a non-free-floating forearm. WTaF, S&W?

[richiecotite]

I've always heard Ruger's secret weapon in making 6 shot .454 revolvers was the Carpenter 158 steel used for the cylinder. Since they already have an "in" with Carpenter, I wonder if they were involved with whatever this wonder alloy for the bolt and extension might be?

No clue about the ruger bolt, but the POF is made of aermet


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[Tokarev]

I have one on the way. It should be here this coming week. Down side is I'll be out of town for part of the week. I may not be able to pick it up until the week of the 25th.

Anyway, things I'm super curious about, aside from this being a new and interesting MSR:

1: what does it use for buffer and spring? Is it a common length and/or will stuff like the VLTOR A5 work?

2: what are the dimensions of the barrel nut? Can it be replaced with Brand X so that other forends can be used? BCM, etc?

3: gas block journal. Is it .75" and in a common location so that other gas blocks and gas tubes can be used? Somewhat related to Q2 above. If I can replace the forend with something else can the gas block also be changed? Not sure I'd want to delete the adjustable one but there may be other adjustable blocks that might be smaller, lighter, easier to set, etc. Or one that may fit under whatever forend might be installed.

4: what does the barrel extension look like? Being that Ruger rarely, if ever, releases certain parts I wonder if the extension can be pulled so that Proof or someone similar can make different barrel options.

5: why no 6.5 Creedmoor? Seems kind of funny that Ruger would launch this as a .308. I like .308 but it seems to be overshadowed and outperformed in some ways by the Creedmoor. A 6.5 would make more sense to me in the current markets.

I'll update when I can. I may pull my 1-6 Viper off a .223 and stick on this rifle to test things out.



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[GyroF-16]

Thanks for being our Guinea Pig, Tokarev.
I’ll look forward to hearing your reports.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Good stuff Tokarev, I have most of those same questions.

Regarding 6.5CM, pretty sure the answer is ammo prices. I cant imagine anyone buying a 6.5CM in 2022 unless they reload or it is strictly for hunting. It looks like 6.5CM prices have come down quite a bit but as recently as 2-3 months ago the cheapest 6.5cm was more than double the price of the cheapest .308 ammo.

[idahojess]

This video has some details on the gas system, and different gas porting:


http://youtu.be/mpVue9gMu7s

It looks like it falls in the accurate enough, but not tack-driver accurate category. Looks like a fun gun.

Edited to add: It would be academically interesting to see what accuracy looks like with a five shot group with the gas system totally off (the gun functioning as a charging handle operated, with each round being chambered manually).

[JEC]

This video has some details on the gas system, and different gas porting:


http://youtu.be/mpVue9gMu7s

It looks like it falls in the accurate enough, but not tack-driver accurate category. Looks like a fun gun.

Edited to add: It would be academically interesting to see what accuracy looks like with a five shot group with the gas system totally off (the gun functioning as a charging handle operated, with each round being chambered manually).

Shot one for groups yesterday. Hornady 168gr TAP shot the best 3 shot group at .442” at 100 yards.

Generic 147gr FMJ ammo averaged 1.38” 3 shot groups at 100. Function was 100% through 60 rounds. I’m really impressed with it so far. This was the 16” model. I will say the brake is obnoxiously loud.

[GJM]

Shot one for groups yesterday. Hornady 168gr TAP shot the best 3 shot group at .442” at 100 yards.

Generic 147gr FMJ ammo averaged 1.38” 3 shot groups at 100. Function was 100% through 60 rounds. I’m really impressed with it so far. This was the 16” model. I will say the brake is obnoxiously loud.

For a lightweight, this seems like plenty good enough precision!

[Tokarev]

Good stuff Tokarev, I have most of those same questions.

Picked the rifle up from my dealer over the weekend. That's as far as I got. No range report, etc. I still need to figure out what I want to do with this thing. Which optic to pull off another rifle, etc.

What I'll probably do is take the 51T muzzle device and optic off my DPMS G2 Recon and put on here. These guns would seem to occupy the same market space. Plus the DPMS is pretty much obsolete. I love the gun but may sell it depending on how the Ruger does.

Anyway, initial impressions are good. The upper and lower fit together nicely. Trigger is pretty good. It feels like an AR with a big mag well.

Not sure about the buffer. I haven't weighed it but it seems to be a standard carbine 3 oz buffer. The buffer spring is long. Maybe longer than rifle? The buffer tube is six position but longer than standard carbine. It may be A5 length.



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[ECVMatt]

Picked the rifle up from my dealer over the weekend. That's as far as I got. No range report, etc. I still need to figure out what I want to do with this thing. Which optic to pull off another rifle, etc.

What I'll probably do is take the 51T muzzle device and optic off my DPMS G2 Recon and put on here. These guns would seem to occupy the same market space. Plus the DPMS is pretty much obsolete. I love the gun but may sell it depending on how the Ruger does.

Anyway, initial impressions are good. The upper and lower fit together nicely. Trigger is pretty good. It feels like an AR with a big mag well.

Not sure about the buffer. I haven't weighed it but it seems to be a standard carbine 3 oz buffer. The buffer spring is long. Maybe longer than rifle? The buffer tube is six position but longer than standard carbine. It may be A5 length.



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Sounds like a good start.

Post some pics of the internals if you get a chance.

I look forward to a review when you get time to shoot it.

[Tokarev]

So there's no free lunch. I assume a sub-8 pound 308 will kick like a sub-8 pound 308. Not that it will necessarily be unpleasant but it no doubt won't handle like a 223, either. That's a guess since I haven't fired the SFAR yet.

Externally the gun is very familiar. Effort needed to work the charging handle is more but otherwise everything feels correct. Distance to selector, bolt catch, mag release all feel right. The distance the charging handle travels also feels right. Most 308 pattern guns are sort of "off" with everything kind of being 5% or 10% out of whack. Not so here.

Balance is good. But that's naked and empty. I assume 20 rounds of 168 BTHP will offset the general AR15 feel. But it still should feel more or less correct.

The bolt and barrel extension is where the "magic" happens. Ruger claims to be using some kind of hot rod material in these parts. Lug geometry is also supposed to be improved. Too bad the Armalite crew didn't have modern stress analysis tools.

Anyway, here are a few pics of the bolt and carrier.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/852f127bd39f49b5d58dcbf4c8c6d291.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/30b3084e25108d41a57e87b8caf67bf8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/d729c15578ce3bbe9d951c652d5e93ac.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/27b2a4d2fa4cf059da9c50c2985468e4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/e8c914c59e865028b4abebeccf96f62f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/c0a8eff479727ca33303c7e397a051ea.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/d207a80072971c4077cad86bad88117c.jpg

My opinion may change after I actually shoot this thing but presently I think it is one of the coolest things Ruger has done in a long time. Something like this in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Proof barrel would be pretty much as modern as the modern sporting rifle can get.



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[jbrimlow]

So there's no free lunch. I assume a sub-8 pound 308 will kick like a sub-8 pound 308. Not that it will necessarily be unpleasant but it no doubt won't handle like a 223, either. That's a guess since I haven't fired the SFAR yet.

Externally the gun is very familiar. Effort needed to work the charging handle is more but otherwise everything feels correct. Distance to selector, bolt catch, mag release all feel right. The distance the charging handle travels also feels right. Most 308 pattern guns are sort of "off" with everything kind of being 5% or 10% out of whack. Not so here.

Balance is good. But that's naked and empty. I assume 20 rounds of 168 BTHP will offset the general AR15 feel. But it still should feel more or less correct.

The bolt and barrel extension is where the "magic" happens. Ruger claims to be using some kind of hot rod material in these parts. Lug geometry is also supposed to be improved. Too bad the Armalite crew didn't have modern stress analysis tools.

Anyway, here are a few pics of the bolt and carrier.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/852f127bd39f49b5d58dcbf4c8c6d291.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/30b3084e25108d41a57e87b8caf67bf8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/d729c15578ce3bbe9d951c652d5e93ac.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/27b2a4d2fa4cf059da9c50c2985468e4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/e8c914c59e865028b4abebeccf96f62f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/c0a8eff479727ca33303c7e397a051ea.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220927/d207a80072971c4077cad86bad88117c.jpg

My opinion may change after I actually shoot this thing but presently I think it is one of the coolest things Ruger has done in a long time. Something like this in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Proof barrel would be pretty much as modern as the modern sporting rifle can get.



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I also think it's a super cool gun, and I'd love to hear what you think of the recoil. My thought was always "Is a .308 that light a good idea?" but you could always add a crazy fuck off brake.

[JEC]

I didn't find the recoil bad at all. I shot it off the bench and in field positions. The muzzle brake is very effective, but extremely loud (to be expected). 60 rounds total for the the hour range session and no discomfort. If the long term reliability is there (so far 100%), then Ruger will have a real winner with this one. Next time out I will run it with my can on it and compare. Also curious to run some 308 subsonics through it with the gas system turned off. May make my subsonic setup Ruger American 300 BO obsolete if the results are positive.

[Oukaapie]

Any reports on accuracy?

[JEC]

Any reports on accuracy?

.442" 3 shot group at 100 yards with Hornady 168gr. TAP. Armscorp 147gr. FMJ averaged 1.38" groups.

[Tokarev]

Any reports on accuracy?Shot 20 rounds of LC13 head stamp ball through mine yesterday. At 50 yards I'd say groups were running about an inch and a half. Not very impressive. But my scope should be more of less dialed in and ready for better ammo.



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[mtnbkr]

It appears that I may be able to get one of these for a "high 3-figure" price via an FFL acquaintance, which means my only point of resistance at this moment is waiting for more reviews.

Chris

[Tokarev]

It appears that I may be able to get one of these for a "high 3-figure" price via an FFL acquaintance, which means my only point of resistance at this moment is waiting for more reviews.

ChrisJoin us. Help get the reviews out.

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[314159]

Early adopters. Go to the range dudes. I've chased the lightweight AR10 for far too long to jump in without more data just yet. I'm curious.

[Tuefelhunden]

Those that have them impressed enough to recommend? I'm interested in an AR10 platform and have been looking at the M&P but if this wrings out. Wife wants something light for hunting and I just want one for deer hunting lighter than my PTR and not 300 Win Mag. Being a lefty and intimately familiar with M16/AR15's this makes a lot of sense if it works.

[SwampDweller]

We got in one of these at the shop I work at. No shooting experience, of course, but first impressions are that it handles very well, pretty much just like a normal AR15. I did notice that the gas block is secured with set screws rather than drilled and pinned, something I'm normally a stickler on. Wonder how that translates in a very lightweight .308 gas gun.

[EzGoingKev]

1: what does it use for buffer and spring? Is it a common length and/or will stuff like the VLTOR A5 work?

Did you ever figure this out?

[Tokarev]

Did you ever figure this out?Sorry. No. I haven't.

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[kwb377]

I picked up a 16" model on Tuesday, got it out to the range this afternoon. I pulled the Burris RT-6 off my Colt for now, but will eventually mount an 8x or 10x LPVO to help out my aging eyes...should be able to close those groups up considerably with MOAH POWAH!

I put @ 80 rounds through it total, left it in the #2 gas setting...only issue I had was the bolt failing to lock back on an empty magazine a few times.

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190418.12e1ea3f.JPEG

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190419.f823dcc4.PNG

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190420.5df88753.PNG

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190421.322987b3.PNG

[psalms144.1]

I picked up a 16" model on Tuesday, got it out to the range this afternoon. I pulled the Burris RT-6 off my Colt for now, but will eventually mount an 8x or 10x LPVO to help out my aging eyes...should be able to close those groups up considerably with MOAH POWAH!

I put @ 80 rounds through it total, left it in the #2 gas setting...only issue I had was the bolt failing to lock back on an empty magazine a few times.

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190418.12e1ea3f.JPEG

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190419.f823dcc4.PNG

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190420.5df88753.PNG

https://a4.pbase.com/g13/07/240307/2/173190421.322987b3.PNG
I'd be perfectly happy with any of those groups in an AR10. I've got the wants for an SFAR in a bad way...

[Risto]

Got one! LGS had 5% off for black friday and I made an impulse buy.

I quickly threw a primary arms 1-6 on it and grabbed a couple boxes of cheap ammo. Did a very rough zero because it was -7 degrees and my hands just don’t work like they used to.

Put a sheet of paper at 15 and one at 100.

Here is the 100 yard paper with some pretty quick (for me) about 1.5-2 second splits standing shots. Just letting the acss reticle fall back onto target and pressing trigger. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221201/ce93c8f5fcf8cafd404e1bcf40e69ee4.jpg


I did about 20 rounds at the 15 yard paper on 1x power with similar results but pretty quick splits. Then got back in the warm car!

Im not a huge AR guy and have never shot a AR10 but i gotta say this gun handles nicely for me.

When the weather warms up i will sit at a bench and try for some better precision.

[idahojess]

I handled one today at the local shop. Very light and handy.

[awp_101]

The 308 That Handles Like a 223: Ruger SFAR Review (https://www.guns.com/news/reviews/the-308-that-handles-like-a-223-ruger-sfar-review)

[GJM]

Review reports accuracy and reliability problems. Not likely to replace my SCAR 17 soon.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/12/27/tfb-review-ruger-sfar/

[EMC]

Review reports accuracy and reliability problems. Not likely to replace my SCAR 17 soon.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/12/27/tfb-review-ruger-sfar/Seems like everyone I know with AR10 pattern firearms experiences gas system reliability or tuning issues, despite origin. It's kept me from messing with them.

[GJM]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/rugers-sfar-a-big-surprise-in-a-small-package-review/

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/jJ5mDNKIOZ4

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[GJM]

https://youtu.be/jJ5mDNKIOZ4

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I just finished watching this, and it looks like he got a defective one.

[SecondsCount]

https://youtu.be/jJ5mDNKIOZ4

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I thumbed through the video and like his style. It looks like he got a bad one, and accuracy wasn't stellar on any of them.

[awp_101]

Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed (https://www.guns.com/news/2023/01/12/taming-the-sfar-how-rugers-small-frame-308-runs-suppressed)

[Frank500]

Mine runs perfectly with or without a suppressor. My last three shots today at one hundred yards went into a half inch group. 1.5x5 Leupold, resting over my pack off a standing bench I made.
Hope to change to a scout scope and good iron sights.

[ldunnmobile]

Mine is rock solid so far and shot bug holes with 175gr SMKs. I was pretty surprised with the accuracy.

[Tuefelhunden]

Just saw these for sale locally for $1100. I may have to take the plunge. If it works well it would make a fantastic Deer rifle.

[Tuefelhunden]

I'm going to pick one of these up. My LGS has a 20" and a 16" inbound. My purpose is primarily for Mule Deer hunting. Is the velocity loss out of the 16" significant enough to consider the longer barrel 20"?

[Duces Tecum]

I'm going to pick one of these up. My LGS has a 20" and a 16" inbound. My purpose is primarily for Mule Deer hunting. Is the velocity loss out of the 16" significant enough to consider the longer barrel 20"?

This might help: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/06/308-win-barrel-cut-down-test-velocity-vs-barrel-length/


Ducas

[Tuefelhunden]

Thank you that does explain it well for sure. Looks like about a 100 lost between 20" and 16". 16" a little harder to shoot accurately except perhaps offhand and louder but a lighter handier package. 20" heavier and longer thus less handy but shoots farther, easier and with greater velocity. I guess in terms of hunting am I losing enough at 16" to worry about not being enough cartridge to humanly harvest a Mule deer or is the difference negligible? I know White and black tails have been taken with 5.56 but a muley is typically a bigger bodied animal.

[Sal Picante]

American Rifleman did a review: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/lightweight-heavy-hitter-ruger-s-sfar/

They talk, briefly, about the dimensional changes, etc.

[Tuefelhunden]

Ok I picked up the 20" barrel SFAR today. Think I made the right choice for my intended purpose. First impressions mint build quality and the trigger is very nice. I'm going to mount a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x24 scope I took off of my PTR 91 but looks like I am going to need new mounting rings with a rear to front offset/cant. Level mount I can't see the sight picture. May get offset irons as a back up as well. If this proves reliable may be the best $1000 I ever spent.

[Trigger]

Watched this video. Seemed like a fairly balanced review. I like when he placed the receivers, bolts and carriers next to each other for a direct comparison.


https://youtu.be/UtjRRYOY8IU

[Dov]

Mine runs perfectly with or without a suppressor. My last three shots today at one hundred yards went into a half inch group. 1.5x5 Leupold, resting over my pack off a standing bench I made.
Hope to change to a scout scope and good iron sights.

Just curious why you want to switch to Scout Scope? I had a Steyr Scout for years, but I found LPV work much better overall for me than Scout Scope, now only types of guns I'd prefer Scout Scope for would be if adding Scope to something like Garand or military bolt action where I want to still be able to use stripper clips.

[HCM]

Just curious why you want to switch to Scout Scope? I had a Steyr Scout for years, but I found LPV work much better overall for me than Scout Scope, now only types of guns I'd prefer Scout Scope for would be if adding Scope to something like Garand or military bolt action where I want to still be able to use stripper clips.

As a user of scout since the 90s I agree with Dov

The scout scope filled a need when Jeff Cooper started using them in the 1970s/1980s. However that need has since been better met with modern reflex/red dot sights and LOVOs.

I also suspect Cooper being cross eye dominant was a factor in his preference for forward mounted optics.

[Frank500]

I’m not a fan of a scope in my face. I’m 6’5” and have had posterior cervical fusion from C2 through T2. A conventional mounted scope is always too close. The scout scope has worked perfectly for me for many years.
Attempting to find “iron sights” Is frustrating. Most are too crude, adjustments are sloppy. Still looking.
You can’t run fast enough to give me a red dot sight.

[HCM]

I’m not a fan of a scope in my face. I’m 6’5” and have had posterior cervical fusion from C2 through T2. A conventional mounted scope is always too close. The scout scope has worked perfectly for me for many years.
Attempting to find “iron sights” Is frustrating. Most are too crude, adjustments are sloppy. Still looking.
You can’t run fast enough to give me a red dot sight.

Both LaRue and ADM (America Defense Manufacturing) make extended / forward cantilever optics mounts for ARs that should help. Geissele makes one too but they are harder to find in stock.

107214

LaRue also makes an extended / forward cantilevered riser you might find useful.

https://www.larue.com/products/extended-picatinny-riser/

As for red dots, whether one likes them, or understands their application, after 20 years of war, red dots on rifles are vetted, effective and the current professional standard. Even Cooper in his later years acknowledged that Aimpoints on carbines helped our people hit (and kill) the enemy faster in “Mesopotamia.”

[okie john]

Modern red dots deliver most if not all of what Cooper described as the ideal rifle sight.


Okie John

[stomridertx]

As a user of scout since the 90s I agree with Dov

The scout scope filled a need when Jeff Cooper started using them in the 1970s/1980s. However that need has since been better met with modern reflex/red dot sights and LOVOs.

I also suspect Cooper being cross eye dominant was a factor in his preference for forward mounted optics.

I've read about the scout rifle concept out of pure curiosity for a few years and I came to this conclusion. I think the concept was bred in a time when optics were limited. I really don't see how any lightweight rifle with a quality LPVO doesn't surpass the original concept by a country mile. It is fascinating to study though, as I think Cooper was a deep thinker about concepts and I always appreciate that.

[Tannhauser]

I've read about the scout rifle concept out of pure curiosity for a few years and I came to this conclusion. I think the concept was bred in a time when optics were limited. I really don't see how any lightweight rifle with a quality LPVO doesn't surpass the original concept by a country mile. It is fascinating to study though, as I think Cooper was a deep thinker about concepts and I always appreciate that.

I completely agree.

I’ve messed around a little with EER “scout” scopes on bolt action rifles, and come to the conclusion a decently quality 1-6 LPVO with some sort of illuminated reticle (ideally more of a dot than a Christmas tree) is a much better solution than a scout scope.

You can shoot with both eyes open on low power to maintain the same situational awareness as you’d have with a scout scope, although I find the LPVO at 1X is Jess visually obtrusive than a scout scope.

One of the other reasons for scout scopes was to keep the action area open to load with stripper clips. Reliable box magazine fed rifles make this irrelevant.

[Jay585]

Any updates? I've got one that's pending shipment. I've been hearing that there's been issues with the gas block hitting the handrail?

Intent is to use it as a woods/homestead/hunting gun. I don't have extensive rifle experience so I'd appreciate hearing from those who do!

Thinking of putting on a Leupold Mk3 HD 3-9
https://www.leupold.com/mark-3hd-3-9x40-p5-illum-firedot-tmr

or Maybe the 4-12?
https://www.leupold.com/mark-3hd-4-12x40-p5-illum-firedot-tmr

Want to keep it light by putting some Badger Ordnance 30mm Rings: https://www.badgerordnance.com/30-mm-scope-ring-medium-high-1-00-306-21.html Not sure if I need the 1" medium high or the .885" mediums. I was thinking ARMS #22 but everyone seems OOS.

Any thoughts on optic or mounting choice?

I want to put a light on it - Cloud Defensive Reign 3.0 and maybe the Bone Bipod https://www.strasser-usa.com/product/bone-bipod/ when I have the funds. I plan to suppress it too, and may get the ball rolling on that first before accessorizing. Fella on IG I spoke with recommended the CAT ODB A1-718 suppressor (to be released) but I'll be doing suppressor research in the meantime.

EDIT: Forgot to ask about mags.

Should I just run PMAGs and not worry about it or...?

[jaabdad]

Want to keep it light by putting some Badger Ordnance 30mm Rings: https://www.badgerordnance.com/30-mm-scope-ring-medium-high-1-00-306-21.html Not sure if I need the 1" medium high or the .885" mediums. I was thinking ARMS #22 but everyone seems OOS.

Any thoughts on optic or mounting choice?

You want a mount that is at least 1.5" high due to the straight line comb of an AR-type stock. Don't try to get the scope as close to the receiver as possible like you would on a drop-comb stock. You may also want a mount with some cantilever forward so you have good eye relief with your head naturally positioned on the stock & the stock adjusted for LOP.




EDIT: Forgot to ask about mags.

Should I just run PMAGs and not worry about it or...?

Yep, PMAGs are just fine. I have and use tons of them for .308.

[kwb377]

Any updates? I've got one that's pending shipment. I've been hearing that there's been issues with the gas block hitting the handrail?


Should I just run PMAGs and not worry about it or...?


I've got @ 500 rounds through my 16" now...still no issues. I've read several commenting in the SFAR group on FB having issues with cycling and the gas block contacting the rail, but luckily I haven't experienced either.

As for magazines, PMags work as well in the SFAR as they do in the AR. I also have a couple of DuraMags that have worked 100% (I just like the way metal mags look).

[HeavyDuty]

Any updates from the owners? The 20” keeps catching my eye.

[GyroF-16]

Any updates from the owners? The 20” keeps catching my eye.

I’m wondering the same thing, and also contemplating the 20” barrel.
The 16” makes me wary because of my experience with a Springfield SOCOM 16 - such an unpleasant report and muzzle blast, along with an impressive fireball out front with several different loads. I know the concussive blast is largely a byproduct of the muzzle brake on the SOCOM, but I suspect the 16” SFAR (with its brake) would be similar. I’m assuming that a 20” barrel would allow more powder burn to reduce the fireball, and I’m imagining fitting an SF3P muzzle device in place of the brake, both to reduce concussion for the shooter and bystanders, and to allow fitting a suppressor.

As you can see, I’ve given this a bit of thought…
I’d welcome the experiences of anyone who’s shot either barrel length (or better yet, both) to tell me whether reality matches my expectations.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m wondering the same thing, and also contemplating the 20” barrel.
The 16” makes me wary because of my experience with a Springfield SOCOM 16 - such an unpleasant report and muzzle blast, along with an impressive fireball out front with several different loads. I know the concussive blast is largely a byproduct of the muzzle brake on the SOCOM, but I suspect the 16” SFAR (with its brake) would be similar. I’m assuming that a 20” barrel would allow more powder burn to reduce the fireball, and I’m imagining fitting an SF3P muzzle device in place of the brake, both to reduce concussion for the shooter and bystanders, and to allow fitting a suppressor.

As you can see, I’ve given this a bit of thought…
I’d welcome the experiences of anyone who’s shot either barrel length (or better yet, both) to tell me whether reality matches my expectations.

Do I need it? No. But my other 7.62x51 semi autos are 16” and 18” barrel, so having a 20” makes sense. $920 seems like a hell of a deal for a decent shooter.

[overton]

Is the SFAR now good to go? Or better wait for a Gen2? Thanks!

[Bigghoss]

https://youtu.be/u7aYAit65JI?si=KjFuO5z_xfDFq_1_

[TGS]

I’m wondering the same thing, and also contemplating the 20” barrel.
The 16” makes me wary because of my experience with a Springfield SOCOM 16 - such an unpleasant report and muzzle blast, along with an impressive fireball out front with several different loads. I know the concussive blast is largely a byproduct of the muzzle brake on the SOCOM, but I suspect the 16” SFAR (with its brake) would be similar. I’m assuming that a 20” barrel would allow more powder burn to reduce the fireball, and I’m imagining fitting an SF3P muzzle device in place of the brake, both to reduce concussion for the shooter and bystanders, and to allow fitting a suppressor.

As you can see, I’ve given this a bit of thought…
I’d welcome the experiences of anyone who’s shot either barrel length (or better yet, both) to tell me whether reality matches my expectations.

If you're amenable to using a suppressor as mentioned, then just get the 16" and suppress it. No need to go to 20" unless its primary purpose is long range shooting (500+ yards), which I'm guessing is not what you're intending for this gun since it's the wrong gun for that task to begin with.

[Jay585]

I bought one new at a great price, received at my FFL and saw the gas block is crooked and touching the handrail.

Since then it's sat in the box waiting for Trajectory Arms to open the books and for their AR-15 Assembly, Inspection, and Tuning (https://www.trajectoryarms.com/product/ar-15-repair-inspection-service/) service.

Unfortunately a few days ago they put out a video on IG saying they're closing down that side of the shop and focusing on the production side.

Who's a good AR smith I can send this off to?

[bofe954]

I bought one new at a great price, received at my FFL and saw the gas block is crooked and touching the handrail.

Since then it's sat in the box waiting for Trajectory Arms to open the books and for their AR-15 Assembly, Inspection, and Tuning (https://www.trajectoryarms.com/product/ar-15-repair-inspection-service/) service.

Unfortunately a few days ago they put out a video on IG saying they're closing down that side of the shop and focusing on the production side.

Who's a good AR smith I can send this off to?

If it were me I'd just call Ruger and let them deal with it.

[stomridertx]

I bought one new at a great price, received at my FFL and saw the gas block is crooked and touching the handrail.

Since then it's sat in the box waiting for Trajectory Arms to open the books and for their AR-15 Assembly, Inspection, and Tuning (https://www.trajectoryarms.com/product/ar-15-repair-inspection-service/) service.

Unfortunately a few days ago they put out a video on IG saying they're closing down that side of the shop and focusing on the production side.

Who's a good AR smith I can send this off to?

Ruger needs to make that right as, in the worst case, the gas port may be drilled off-center which needs a new barrel to fix. Even if it's just a gas block that slipped or wasn't installed right, it's unacceptable for you to have to pay an armorer or gunsmith to fix that. You should call Ruger and send it in.

[WobblyPossum]

Another vote to call Ruger and get them to fix it.

[Bigghoss]

I bought one new at a great price, received at my FFL and saw the gas block is crooked and touching the handrail.

Since then it's sat in the box waiting for Trajectory Arms to open the books and for their AR-15 Assembly, Inspection, and Tuning (https://www.trajectoryarms.com/product/ar-15-repair-inspection-service/) service.

Unfortunately a few days ago they put out a video on IG saying they're closing down that side of the shop and focusing on the production side.

Who's a good AR smith I can send this off to?

+1 for sending it back. I've had to send 3 or 4 guns back to them and they always made it right. In my experience Ruger does put out more defective guns than most companies but they fix it when they do.

[Jay585]

Bigghoss WobblyPossum stomridertx bofe954

Well, sent Ruger a customer service request, I'll see what they say.

Honestly I wanted to have an inspection service/tuning done on it anyway, I was thinking they could fix the numerous issues I've heard about it and maybe eliminate the need for the break in period (IIRC, 200 rounds on setting 2).

[Tokarev]

Now available in 6.5 Creed. Two versions at present:

https://ruger.com/products/sfar/models.html

[draftpick]

Now available in 6.5 Creed. Two versions at present:

https://ruger.com/products/sfar/models.html

I have one on the way, been waiting for the 6.5 version.

[RealSelf]

Anybody here using the 20" 6.5 Creedmoor version here? They have a nice Magpul PRS Lite stock as a factory option that looks to make for a nice package.