Unarmed options in Norway

[JAD]

A buddy has been having lots of interesting interactions with Iranians at church in Norway. He is looking for a source of pepper spray, which is moderately illegal; I don't think he's going to find much.

So, the next best thing would probably be something like an ECQC class. Do we know any competent trainers in Norway or Finland?

[ACP230]

Carry a nice, stout, cane?

[feudist]

Cardio?

[GJM]

Probably needs a new church.

[JAD]

Probably needs a new church.

He's Lutheran so of COURSE I told him that*, but it's beside the point.

He said they had been seeing a number of Iranian immigrants who were attending shyly but in earnest, often women, but then some bearded surly uncles started showing up and vibing the crap out of everybody, and poof there are no more Iranians at all. It isn't hard to imagine that escalating in some ugly ways.


*if he were to convert to Catholicism, as I'd like, he'd mostly just be really culturally isolated in church. I've been to mass a number of times in Norway, and your choices are Polish, Tagalog, Spanish, or Vietnamese. Catholicism is the religion of the help in Scandinavia. On the other hand, I'd like to see how the surly uncles would get on in a Polish church.

[1Rangemaster]

The competition shooters I knew of in that part of the world have retired/died. But, he might inquire at gun clubs to openly ask about retired military and/or other martial arts. Since the mass murder incident several years back, I am not sure what or how the laws changed in that part of the world.
I can think of one or two options: fire extinguishers, which could be useful in several scenarios, and for individuals the aforementioned walking stick. There is a certain strength in numbers if the group is committed to one another.
Some places really suck, from my point of view. Defensive actions will be seen as offensive, e.g., the country where Great Britain use to be and France.

[P30]

This looks interesting to me:

kravmagacamp.no (https://www.kravmagacamp.no/)
https://www.kravmagacamp.no/images/Bilder_artikler/Camp_Norway_2022.png

Buddy and I were in Norway in 2011. Mainly for motorbiking. We were on our way home to Germany when Breivik killed the children, we saw many ambulance vans. At the next petrol station, we were told what happened. Until then, we felt very safe there. Don't know about safety in Norway now. Sweden was also very safe in 2011. I was told, much has changed in Sweden since the European migration crisis (changed from good to bad).

Did not know that pepper spray is forbidden in Norway.

PS:
When we were in Norway, we went into a store where they also sold guns. Handled an M&P9 there, saw it for the first time there. Shortly afterwards back in Germany, I got a licence for one and bought it. Liked it, swapped it with an HK SFP9 meanwhile. Would have kept it, if we had a more liberal gun law here.

[MickAK]

This looks interesting to me:

kravmagacamp.no (https://www.kravmagacamp.no/)
https://www.kravmagacamp.no/images/Bilder_artikler/Camp_Norway_2022.png

Buddy and I were in Norway in 2011. Mainly for motorbiking. We were on our way home to Germany when Breivik killed the children, we saw many ambulance vans. At the next petrol station, we were told what happened. Until then, we felt very safe there. Don't know about safety in Norway now. Sweden was also very safe in 2011. I was told, much has changed in Sweden since the European migration crisis (changed from good to bad).

Did not know that pepper spray is forbidden in Norway.

PS:
When we were in Norway, we went into a store where they also sold guns. Handled an M&P9 there, saw it for the first time there. Shortly afterwards back in Germany, I got a licence for one and bought it. Liked it, swapped it with an HK SFP9 meanwhile. Would have kept it, if we had a more liberal gun law here.

The choice of pictures does not inspire confidence.

[Le Français]

I'd like to see how the surly uncles would get on in a Polish church.

93640

[Lon]

93640

I love the Winged Hussars.

[Mitch]

Generally I would avoid Krav Maga.

Find a good MMA or BJJ gym, and realize that it’s going to take significantly more time than a weekend seminar to really learn how to fight.

Maybe a silly question but is carrying a knife possible?

Honestly if it’s getting that sketchy, I just wouldn’t be there. I’m not religious, though, so likely he and I view this much differently.

[LittleLebowski]

I love the Winged Hussars.

Anyone here who doesn’t, is banned.

[Clusterfrack]

A buddy has been having lots of interesting interactions with Iranians at church in Norway. He is looking for a source of pepper spray, which is moderately illegal; I don't think he's going to find much.

So, the next best thing would probably be something like an ECQC class. Do we know any competent trainers in Norway or Finland?

I was wearing this when I was in Finland...

https://lenwood.com/shop/belts/bft/

[luckyman]

I was wearing this when I was in Finland...

https://lenwood.com/shop/belts/bft/

Darn it…. I’ve only been in Finland for I think 2 days, but have been extremely impressed from that short visit and the 2 Finnish guys I know….
It looks like weapons laws are as restrictive there as in most of Europe?

Dang, I better start learning Czech.

Edited to add: or Polish; got dozens of friends in Poland from work.

[rob_s]

My wife’s mother is Norwegian. My wife did two study abroad years there when young, we have hosted the Norwegian cousins several times here, and I have been there once (we are anxious to go back, actually).

I really feel for them. Prior to discovering oil they weren’t a rich country. My MIL moved here prior to the oil. Since the oil they have enjoyed great wealth as a country, but as a people they are largely naive to the world. The resistance fighters from WWII are dead and/or forgotten. They are all now fat and ignorant of the world. They have that naïveté that many isolated wealthy peoples have they think everyone else is like them. So they open their borders, they let folks in, and now they have encampments where the immigrants literally shit in their rivers (these are, thankfully, still very isolated situations for now).

When the cousins come here and we talk, they are still blissfully cheerful. They are all in their 60s and I hope they get to keep that optimism for the rest of their lives. I suspect their children and grandchildren are starting to see the consequences of their parents’ immigration policies, as they aren’t yet rich enough to have their own Hytte (https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norway-cabin-culture/) to retreat to and hide from the world.

Even the other, non-oil-finding, Scandinavian countries harbor some jealousy towards their (relatively newly) rich neighbors.

All of that said, I never felt scared or threatened when we were there. We spent some time in the countryside, and some time in Oslo. I suspect that, now just a few years later, that may have changed in the City. Funnily enough when we were there before the most disliked I felt was in the countryside at a restaurant getting mean-mugged by the white Norwegians for being American.

I would offer that if your friend is feeling uncomfortable to to groups of men, particularly at a church, he assemble his own group of men.

I love Norway, and the people there, but I fear that in my children’s lifetime it will drastically change for the worse. I’m so glad we got to go when we did, and I’m hopeful that things won’t change too much by the time we get to go back.

[feudist]

Maybe something...traditional?

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/4YR67_AS01?hei=536&wid=536&$adapimg$=

[blues]

https://youtu.be/MKy-0ew-KtY

[rob_s]

Maybe something...traditional?

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/4YR67_AS01?hei=536&wid=536&$adapimg$=

that would seem to me to be pretty viable. Chances are whatever sort of rabble is getting roused outside won't have much more, and I don't think I've ever been in a church that wasn't in the middle of some sort of repairs and/or project.

[feudist]

that would seem to me to be pretty viable. Chances are whatever sort of rabble is getting roused outside won't have much more, and I don't think I've ever been in a church that wasn't in the middle of some sort of repairs and/or project.

"Why yes, officer. I believe it was left here Thursday."

https://i.etsystatic.com/16178913/r/il/9cf72c/2957291304/il_794xN.2957291304_tuf6.jpg

[willie]

I suggest asking a Norwegian cop for advice about self defense. If it were me, I would not risk being arrested even if I had to retreat--especially if I were ignorant of the law. Norway very likely has its own version of bullshit hate crime criteria.

[P30]

Researched a little bit, found this (via Google via Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/42znve/options_on_selfdefense_measures_in_norway/)):

spyshop.no/swedish-body-armour-forsvarsspray.html (https://www.spyshop.no/swedish-body-armour-forsvarsspray.html)

Machine translation (https://www-spyshop-no.translate.goog/swedish-body-armour-forsvarsspray.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

Dude on Reddit wrote, it's legal in Norway. Could not find the ingredients.

[Totem Polar]

Researched a little bit, found this (via Google via Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/42znve/options_on_selfdefense_measures_in_norway/)):

spyshop.no/swedish-body-armour-forsvarsspray.html (https://www.spyshop.no/swedish-body-armour-forsvarsspray.html)

Machine translation (https://www-spyshop-no.translate.goog/swedish-body-armour-forsvarsspray.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

Dude on Reddit wrote, it's legal in Norway. Could not find the ingredients.

Why is there a box of matches in that pic? Are you supposed to light the stream—or the guy—on fire? That could be epic…

https://www.spyshop.no/media/catalog/product/cache/460d72565cf9df677aa476712348328c/s/b/sba-forsvarsspray_1.jpg

[HeavyDuty]

Lutefisk can be used as an impact weapon, and is readily available.

[RevolverRob]

I was wearing this when I was in Finland...

https://lenwood.com/shop/belts/bft/

Webbing, leather, conveyor belt? What option did you choose?

I like those and a black and brown leather one might be a nice addition for semi-formal wear at professional conferences.

[Clusterfrack]

Webbing, leather, conveyor belt? What option did you choose?

I like those and a black and brown leather one might be a nice addition for semi-formal wear at professional conferences.

Conveyor.

Be careful if you practice with it... lots of ways to go wrong with that thing.

[RevolverRob]

Conveyor.

Be careful if you practice with it... lots of ways to go wrong with that thing.

Seems like the kind of thing to wrap up pretty firmly in foam before you go swinging it around. Thanks for the warning.

___

I haven't been to Norway, so I am unsure of their transit system. But in my general European experience, coins are used frequently in Europe for transit and of course most of the smaller Euro denominations are in coin form. Something like a Mean Gene Leather Hot Tamale might be a nice addition to the kit. I see they have a new, slightly narrower version which probably works better than the original wide version https://www.meangeneleather.com/shop/sloppy-seconds-s2-coin-purse/. Because it stacks the coins in a roll is pretty tightly packed around them. That actually makes it more Blackjack like than sap like. In my experience, Jacks hit HARD
even with low weight, because the force is concentrated in a small area. By contrast if you can't get enough weight into the head of a sap, it doesn't have the same effect, since the weight is spread out more.

I like that Sloppy Seconds design...enough so, I just ordered one for myself.

[Clusterfrack]

Seems like the kind of thing to wrap up pretty firmly in foam before you go swinging it around. Thanks for the warning.
...I just ordered one for myself.

There's the deployment aspect: getting it off your pants and onto your wrist (loop over wrist, grab both parts). Then, figuring out how long you want the business end. A lot of my practice was aimed low, discouraging an attack from multiple people by striking the legs.

[Clusterfrack]

RevolverRob, if you want to FaceTime when your belt arrives, let me know. I had a lesson on use by a very capable friend who works EP.

[BillSWPA]

I agree with the suggestion of MMA or BJJ. Any improvised contact weapon that can be carried will depend on the ability to make contact, much of which will come from unarmed skills. Additionally, the unarmed skills are likely the most important option.

Regarding walking sticks, this is a suggestion that I have occasionally made. Right now, the arthritis in one of my knees has flared up to the point where I am using a Cold Steel city stick to help walk around until my appointment with my knee doctor. Although a good stick is a very effective weapon, I certainly do not look like a hard target when I am using it to walk around. I will be much more confident in my ability to avoid trouble in the first place once I get my knee straightened out and I’m walking normally again.

Pens and flashlights are also generally legal to carry anywhere (with the disclaimer that I know little about foreign laws). A Malkoff Bodyguard version two with a fully shrouded switch is as good a Yawara/Kubotan type weapon as you will find. The TuffWriter Retro Click pens have no characteristics which would make them identifiable as potential weapons, but are truly tough pens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SCCY Marshal]

Why is there a box of matches in that pic? Are you supposed to light the stream—or the guy—on fire? That could be epic…

https://www.spyshop.no/media/catalog/product/cache/460d72565cf9df677aa476712348328c/s/b/sba-forsvarsspray_1.jpg

Scale. That is a rather small cannister.

[billt460]

A buddy has been having lots of interesting interactions with Iranians at church in Norway. He is looking for a source of pepper spray, which is moderately illegal; I don't think he's going to find much.

I'll go way out on a limb here and say if one needs pepper spray to safely attend church services, he just might want to think about doing his praying at home.

[Stephanie B]

Maybe something...traditional?

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/4YR67_AS01?hei=536&wid=536&$adapimg$=

I don't think one really needs something that heavy. A framing hammer should do nicely, as they seem to be fairly similar to medieval war hammers.

95185

95184

[Clusterfrack]

I don't think one really needs something that heavy. A framing hammer should do nicely, as they seem to be fairly similar to medieval war hammers.

95185

95184

Like this?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221003/8e6e904594427ecbf4901c19c0879e35.jpg

[Stephanie B]

Like this?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221003/8e6e904594427ecbf4901c19c0879e35.jpg

Maybe. I think framing hammers have longer shafts, which helps the impact velocity.

[wrmettler]

I'd love to go to Norway someday. If for no other reason than I'd like to watch this sort of shooting event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cnAwRJc7Sw

[ChuteTheMall]

https://i.imgflip.com/7n0my3.jpg

How about a narwhal tusk?

[Malamute]

https://i.imgflip.com/7n0my3.jpg

How about a narwhal tusk?


London Bridge attack: Darryn Frost on using a narwhal tusk to stop knifeman

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50870309

I believe fire extinguishers have some potential for suppression if things went rodeo. They are also very useful for putting out vehicle fires, I keep one or two in my vehicles. I gave one to someone trying to put out a differential fire and know a guy that used one to put someone elses engine fire out. Extinguishers are thoughtfully provided at many public facilities. If I feared for my safety due to fire or other possible issues one could help suppress, then hanging around near one may be good planning.

[MickAK]

London Bridge attack: Darryn Frost on using a narwhal tusk to stop knifeman

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50870309

I believe fire extinguishers have some potential for suppression if things went rodeo. They are also very useful for putting out vehicle fires, I keep one or two in my vehicles. I gave one to someone trying to put out a differential fire and know a guy that used one to put someone elses engine fire out.

In my experience a 20 lb CO2 extinguisher is very effective in stopping fights without any mess to clean up. I doubt it would stop a determined attacker but you still have a sizable hunk of metal with a handle post discharge.

[Archer1440]

I don't think one really needs something that heavy. A framing hammer should do nicely, as they seem to be fairly similar to medieval war hammers.

95185



I know you’re joking, but just in case someone else takes this seriously- if you are walking around in Norway with any sort of hammer on your person and you aren’t going to or from a work site, you will find yourself in a very difficult position. Pretty much like just about anywhere else in Europe.

[Crashpad]

London Bridge attack: Darryn Frost on using a narwhal tusk to stop knifeman

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50870309

I believe fire extinguishers have some potential for suppression if things went rodeo. They are also very useful for putting out vehicle fires, I keep one or two in my vehicles. I gave one to someone trying to put out a differential fire and know a guy that used one to put someone elses engine fire out. Extinguishers are thoughtfully provided at many public facilities. If I feared for my safety due to fire or other possible issues one could help suppress, then hanging around near one may be good planning.

Another benefit to the "versatility" of fire extinguishers is that there are many reasons to have one in hand, absent any actual fire. Maybe someone handed it to you because they thought it was in the way, or was knocked off it's mount. Maybe you suspected it needed recharged or was defective in some way.
There are any number of reasons that one might have an extinguisher in hand when entering a small, let's say office sized, room where there might be an agitated employee your or a coworker are dealing with.
Definitely not talking from personal experience...