Bolt gun trainer

[MDS]

So I've bought a nice R700 bolt gun, and a cheap 22lr bolt gun to practice with for cheap. The 22lr is cool/fun, but I'd like to get something more accurate, ideally something which also feels more like the 700 in terms of running the bolt and etc.

Still early in research, but right now I'm leaning towards the CZ 455 - they have a combo deal with a 22LR and 17HMR barrels for $500. Anyone have any experience with those? Any thoughts about bolt gun trainers in general, or various models in particular?

Thanks in advance!

[JV_]

The CZ rifles make great trainer guns. I've always wanted one dropped in to a Manners stock.

[SecondsCount]

The CZ rifles are very nice. While I don't own one, I see many at the range and the owners always give them high praise. I shot one years ago and was impressed.

If you want something very close to the 700, and have lots of extra cash, Remington makes the 40X in 22LR.

[NickA]

If you want something very close to the 700, and have lots of extra cash, Remington makes the 40X in 22LR.

Every once in a great while some will show up on the ODCMP website, but there aren't any right now and they usually go fast.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[LittleLebowski]

The CZ rifles make great trainer guns. I've always wanted one dropped in to a Manners stock.

I want a CZ.....

[Corlissimo]

While not as inexpensive to shoot as .22LR or .17HMR, I used to run a Model 12 Savage 22-250Rem varmint gun for similar reasons.

It was a tack driver and pretty flat out to just under 400 yards (the max distance I ever had available to me) as long as it wasn't too windy. It was a package deal I came across at a local Dick's store. Ran me about $375 +tax IIRC. It had a cheap, variable power, Simmons scope that was a little dark at full magnification, but clear otherwise. All I did was add a Harris bi-pod for $20 and it was G2G for my needs.

The 22-250 load had enough recoil to let me know I wasn't shooting a .22LR. It was a good trainer in that sense too.

[JAD]

I have always wanted to buy a pair of 527s (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-carbine/) in 7.62 -- one to leave as is and one to rebarrel in 6mm PPC. Only 21 years to go 'til retirement...

[Chris_S]

I've got a CZ452 Trainer and, assuming the 455s are remotely similar, it's a solid, accurate .22lr. The bolt on mine was a little stiff out of the box but oiling it and working the bolt for 15 minutes while watching television smoothed it out. Some people feel the need to shim the sear and clip spring coils, to lighten the trigger or remove creep, but my sample of one has a creepless trigger and a pretty light break (at least for someone whose only other rifles are ARs with stock GI triggers). It shoots like a laser out to 50 yards, which is as far as I've taken it, and it's about as much fun as I can have in public with pants on.

[rudy99]

If the OP is looking for a trainer that has similar mechanics, etc, why not get a 700 in .223? It wouldn't have the baby bolt of a .22 and should work in a similar fashion (i.e. close to same action and trigger). Not as cheap as a .22, but if he has an AR, then there is some crossover in ammo. Nothing against CZ, but wouldn't that be like getting a Ruger Mark III to train with instead of a glock? It is quite possible that I may be missing something here though.

[JV_]

I but wouldn't that be like getting a Ruger Mark III to train with instead of a glock?Not really. You can get similar stocks, setup the triggers to feel the same, and use similar optics.

Getting setup behind the gun (slung up or prone), reading the wind, and other things are far more important, IMO, than physically working the bolt - having them marginally different is a non-issue.

[Odin Bravo One]

IMHO the best trainer for a bolt gun, is the bolt gun being used. Nothing will replicate that gun, and I think it would be pretty cost ineffective to set up a "trainer" gun in the EXACT configuration. For that kind of money, you can buy a lot of premium .308 ammo. A lot.

Position work, fundamentals, breathing, etc. can all be worked dry fire and be very effective. And unless you are going to relegate your big boy gun to shooting at 200 and in, a rimfire "trainer" isn't going to help you where it really matters at distance. I'm far from the sniper's sniper, but I have occasionally had to make long range shots that mattered. A .22 or .17 isn't helping me understand the in flight ballistics, reading/calling wind, mirage, leads and holds, etc. The only thing that will help me with that, is shooting the gun I intend on using for that purpose.

I'd take that money and buy a couple of cases of premium .308.

If you want a baby bolt gun because you want one, don't let me talk you out of it. But don't fool yourself into believing it is "training" either.

[JV_]

A .22 or .17 isn't helping me understand the in flight ballistics, reading/calling wind, mirage, leads and holds, etc.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this point. The drop chart of a .308 (175 SMK) inside of 400-450Y looks a lot like a .22LR at half the distance. They're very close in not only elevation but in wind drift.

At 200 Yards, a .22LR has about 15" of drift for a full value 10 mph wind. If you're not reading the wind correctly, that 2-4" spinner is tough to hit.

[Odin Bravo One]

We can disagree. Doesn't hurt my feelings. And I know it doesn't hurt yours.

I simply don't believe in the .22 for this purpose. AR, sure. Pistol, why not? Precision bolt gun........no. It will not replicate to any degree at the range where skill with a .308 becomes a matter of skill. That is well beyond 500 yards. Anything inside of that is a chip shot, and if you can't routinely hit those shots, then a .22 is definitely in order for basic marksmanship. I just think the OP is beyond that.

As I stated in my initial post, if sticking to shots at 200 yards and in, then a .22 could be useful. But if you are going to maximize the range of the system, you are best off training with that system. What starts happening (environmental, gravity, etc) to bullets at 700, 800, 900, and a grand don't occur at short range. Any time on the gun will improve a shooters mechanics, even if a .22LR. And I truly believe my years of committing genocide on the squirrel populations growing up taught me to read and call wind, with .22LR's. But again, it doesn't help with the fine points of long range target engagement and marksmanship. I stand by my position for more ammo over new gun.

But it's just my opinion. And worth what you paid for it.

[MDS]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. So I got the 308 as a decent gun to learn with. The problem is I don't have easy access to ranges longer than 100yd. So I never thought the 22lr would help with the more basic stuff like positions or whatever, I did think a good 22lr might let me develop some instincts about wind and trajectory with ammo where 100yd actually matters. I'm at the skill level where just running the free simulations at shooterready.com has already cleared up a little of the mystery. I expect my bolt gun class in November will help even more.

As for the fun factor of 22lr, I already have a 22lr bolt gun - a 1950's Marlin 81DL with which I can shoot minute-of-squirrel at 50yd. Plenty of fun in this gun, so my only perceived need for a more accurate 22lr is for training wind and bullet drop at short distances. Based on y'all's feedback, I'll hold off on the expense of a more accurate 22lr, and focus on shooting the 308 for groups at 100 with positions and breathing and etc., and take it to longer ranges when I get the chance.

Thanks again! :)

[JV_]

If you already have one, then I'd check out some of the drills described here:
http://www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html

[MDS]

If you already have one, then I'd check out some of the drills described here:
http://www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html

Cool targets, thanks! Unfortunately, there's no easy way to mount a scope on the Marlin, so it's tough to do precision stuff with it, at least for me...hopefully I'll hit the rifle range this week, I'll see what I can do with these drills at various distances.