I'm gonna make my own Stack-A-Toe, but better...with blackjack. And hookers.

[BobM]

I’d like to see a 4” milled for the ACRO.

[Tannhauser]

A couple of interesting new offerings from the S&W LE lineup for your Stack-A-Toe consideration:

All black M&P Metal with night sights LE SKU 13771:
105744


M2.0 Full-size with Holosun SCS and low-witness night sights LE SKU 13943:
105743

Maybe in a few years S&W will offer an a black, all metal M&P Compact cut for the Acro to the civilian market.

It seems strange that S&W can’t realize that lots of people, not just agencies, would want a metal frame pistol in black not grey, with the slide cut for a direct mount optic like the Acro.

Personally, I’m done with using plates, and would really like to be done with using tiny screws.

[mmc45414]

Personally, I’m done with using plates
It does seem like the notion of wanting to future-proof your options might be overrated. Between the ACRO and Trijicon there is going to always be something that will fit on your slide.
My experience is (currently) limited, but I decided to direct mill for an SRO. You can easily mail just the slide, and I didn't refinish and none of the bare stainless is visible.

[Tannhauser]

It does seem like the notion of wanting to future-proof your options might be overrated. Between the ACRO and Trijicon there is going to always be something that will fit on your slide.
My experience is (currently) limited, but I decided to direct mill for an SRO. You can easily mail just the slide, and I didn't refinish and none of the bare stainless is visible.

If I could have all my wishes, the major pistol makers would all decide on a common interface cut, similar to the now universal commonality of Picatinny rails.

Is it Acro? 509T? Something else? I don’t know, and to an extent, don’t really care. Backwards compatibility would be possible with interface plates that clamped yo the new slide cut, but new design pistol optics rotor be immediately compatible.

I’m sure it will never happen, because it makes too much sense.

[mmc45414]

If I could have all my wishes, the major pistol makers would all decide on a common interface cut, similar to the now universal commonality of Picatinny rails.

I agree, but might be a Chicken Or The Egg situation, with the optic manufacturers making their products without any commonality. There were many that mimiced Trijicon, but now Aimpoint has a bit of a superior game-changer aproach. Perhpas the optic manufacturers might come up with an M-Lok-ish shared standard, but probably not.

Also, being 64yo and all, a maybe someday thing might eat into my window of opportunity, so I took a plunge and had a $500 pistol milled for a specific (common) optic. The probability of no suitable optic being available for the SRO footprint in my timeframe of being alive/young enough to care is low enough to roll those dice. :cool:

[Dorsai]

Couple of thoughts. First, I don't think there can be standard for pistol optic/red dot footprints. That's too restrictive when it comes to the continued evolution, which results in better and often cheaper optics for the consumer. Competition requires options. However, I think there could be a common standard for an MOS cut on the factory gun. That makes it easier for an aftermarket manufacturer to develop and make adapter plates. I have an M&P 2.0 10mm with the optics cut. IIRC, only one of the plates provided is actually metal. The others are plastic. I would have to look in my G45 MOS box to see if the plates are plastic (I think they are). I bought a C&H plate for the Holosun 509T. If the MOS (I know, that's Glock's name, but I'll use it as an easy standard - like "Kleenex" instead of facial tissue) was the same for all/most guns, then the sight developers would have the freedom to design their optics, and the adapter. I don't think it would violate RICO for them to agree to such a standard.

Small deviation but still within the Stack-A-Toe theme. I bought one of the new Beretta 92XI SAO guns and have done some tweaks. I call it my Spaghetti Staccato (or Stack-A-Toe). It fits with the same "box" as the Staccato and M&P, i.e. Single action, double stack, 9mm. I'd argue that the Beretta is conceptually closer to the Staccato as it is also a hammer fired gun. But no polymer except for the stocks. FYI, LTT has now released their tweaked version and I'm eager to see the reviews... and their TJIB.

[Noah]

Couple of thoughts. First, I don't think there can be standard for pistol optic/red dot footprints. That's too restrictive when it comes to the continued evolution, which results in better and often cheaper optics for the consumer. Competition requires options. However, I think there could be a common standard for an MOS cut on the factory gun. That makes it easier for an aftermarket manufacturer to develop and make adapter plates. I have an M&P 2.0 10mm with the optics cut. IIRC, only one of the plates provided is actually metal. The others are plastic. I would have to look in my G45 MOS box to see if the plates are plastic (I think they are). I bought a C&H plate for the Holosun 509T. If the MOS (I know, that's Glock's name, but I'll use it as an easy standard - like "Kleenex" instead of facial tissue) was the same for all/most guns, then the sight developers would have the freedom to design their optics, and the adapter. I don't think it would violate RICO for them to agree to such a standard.

Small deviation but still within the Stack-A-Toe theme. I bought one of the new Beretta 92XI SAO guns and have done some tweaks. I call it my Spaghetti Staccato (or Stack-A-Toe). It fits with the same "box" as the Staccato and M&P, i.e. Single action, double stack, 9mm. I'd argue that the Beretta is conceptually closer to the Staccato as it is also a hammer fired gun. But no polymer except for the stocks. FYI, LTT has now released their tweaked version and I'm eager to see the reviews... and their TJIB.

OEM Glock MOS plates are metal, but they are cheaply casted and often not perfectly flat and therefore frequently break with use, and have very little thread engagement. An aftermarket plate is kinda mandatory.

Agreed on the 92XI.

[Blackbag]

Getting close to putting together a M&P, so I am obtaining the parts necessary for this project. Does anyone have links to all the parts needed for the manual safety kit? I have found thumb safeties, but I can't seem to find a source for all the required parts. Thank you.

[TCinVA]

You need the thumb safety levers, the safety detent, and the safety detent spring.

Ebay has sellers that have put all three into one kit.
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/333360021598?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Uad63lIwR06&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)

[MD7305]

S&W will be offering factory milled 509T guns soon, at least as an LE SKU initially, I dont know the SKU yet. I would guess metal framed factory-milled Acro and 509T guns will also be in the future.

[Blackbag]

You need the thumb safety levers, the safety detent, and the safety detent spring.

Ebay has sellers that have put all three into one kit.
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/333360021598?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Uad63lIwR06&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)

Thank you. Created an account and order placed. Hopefully they get another kit in stock and I will be good to go.

[Vista461]

Well I guess it’s time to sell the 92A1 and pick up a M&P to start my own version.

I’m already pretty invested in the M&P universe, I use a 1.0 .40 at work, and have a 1.0 9c ( that I use a 2.0 15rd mag in), 45 Shield, and my wife has a 9 shield.

May as well keep going.

[Tannhauser]

Here’s my Stack-A-Toe:

107483

M&P9 2.0 Compact
Holosun 509t
Slide cut & refinished by Maple Leaf
Apex trigger and Duty/Carry internals

At some point I may go the route of fitting an Apex barrel, but maybe I got a “good” factory barrel because I’m definitely not good enough to outshoot the accuracy of the OEM barrel. Basically, I am the weak link in the accuracy chain.

[TCinVA]

I've heard a lot of good things about Maple Leaf's machining.

[Tannhauser]

I've heard a lot of good things about Maple Leaf's machining.

I’m happy with my sample size of this one.

Very clean work, and they worked within their stated turn around time.

I opted for a nitride refinish, and the slide looks like it came from the factory with this cut.

[Dorsai]

I've heard a lot of good things about Maple Leaf's machining.

I've had them do 4 or 5 slides and I'd happily send them another if I had one that needed work. If I have to say it, I'm very pleased and impressed with the quality of their work. Enough that I recommended them to a friend and he had a couple worked on as well.

[David S.]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Smith-MandP2-0-Factory-Cut-for-ACRO/88-2373290/

[fatdog]

I've heard a lot of good things about Maple Leaf's machining.

Maple Leaf has done two direct mill ACRO's for me on Glocks, both were excellent.

[MountainRaven]

If one were going to build a Stack-A-Toe using a non-direct milled M&P, what plate should be chosen?

[Tannhauser]

If one were going to build a Stack-A-Toe using a non-direct milled M&P, what plate should be chosen?

From my experience, I would NOT use the factory S&W plastic plates (based on poor personal experience).

If you are ok with open emitter, I’d use the Holosun SCS, which basically turns the factory IR slide into a direct milled slide.

I used a SCS on my M&P 10mm. Happy with it so far.

[SoCalDep]

If one were going to build a Stack-A-Toe using a non-direct milled M&P, what plate should be chosen?

Depends on the optic you want and that’s personal and situational.

The factory metal plates are fantastic.
The plastic plates work fine as long as they stay tight. If the optic comes loose the bosses die quickly.
C&H is hit-or-miss but their batting average is pretty good.
I’ve become a big fan of Eleven 71 Design plates… did some training with the guy and while his plates aren’t cheap, he’s all about quality including his supporting components.
Forward Controls makes probably the best Glock RMR plate but the M&P ACRO plate puts the optic too high. I don’t recommend it.

Today I’m mounting a Trijicon SRO with an Eleven 71 plate on a 5” M&P that was recently fit with an Apex barrel and will soon get a manual safety installed.

[G19Fan]

From my experience, I would NOT use the factory S&W plastic plates (based on poor personal experience).

If you are ok with open emitter, I’d use the Holosun SCS, which basically turns the factory IR slide into a direct milled slide.

I used a SCS on my M&P 10mm. Happy with it so far.

Tha is a fantastic optic

[TCinVA]

If one were going to build a Stack-A-Toe using a non-direct milled M&P, what plate should be chosen?

I have a compact that isn't factory cut. I have a Holosun open emitter optic on that pistol using one of the S&W plates.

The Aimpoint/B&T plates for the M&P CORE cut would be my first choice, but they put the Acro at least too high for the irons to provide a useful cowitness. Replacing the sights with slightly taller ones from Dawson is possible, but S&W basically crush-fits the sights into those dovetails and they do not want to come out easily.

[TCinVA]

Depends on the optic you want and that’s personal and situational.
the M&P ACRO plate puts the optic too high. I don’t recommend it.


I could be wrong, but I think the way the Acro mounts is going to produce that result for any Acro mounting plate unfortunately. If somebody knows of one that doesn't, I'm all ears.

EDIT - Well, as it turns out SoCal's Eleven 71 guy might be just the ticket:

https://eleven71design.com/shop/p/smith-wesson-mp-20-aimpoint-acro

[Vista461]

Well I sold my 92A1 to fund my Stack-A-Toe.
Soon as I get payment, I’ll be ordering an optics ready compact with thumb safety to start with.
Not as good as the factory Acro milled, but I guess this would be my small budget C2 version. Lol

[TOTS]

Well I sold my 92A1 to fund my Stack-A-Toe.
Soon as I get payment, I’ll be ordering an optics ready compact with thumb safety to start with.
Not as good as the factory Acro milled, but I guess this would be my small budget C2 version. Lol
PM inbound

[MountainRaven]

I call it the Dirt Birb. The Stack-A-Toe Dirt Birb.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/852037264783310858/1146088960880296047/image0.jpg

I think I'll replace the plastic OEM plate with the Eleven71 plate for the RMR, though.

And get some Vickers base plates.

And...

[Tannhauser]

I call it the Dirt Birb. The Stack-A-Toe Dirt Birb.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/852037264783310858/1146088960880296047/image0.jpg

I think I'll replace the plastic OEM plate with the Eleven71 plate for the RMR, though.

And get some Vickers base plates.

And...

I love the meme. Spot on :D

Based on personal experience, I would definitely replace the S&W plastic plate with something better (metal).

[Vista461]

Well my 2.0 compact came in today. I got it for $399.99 from grab a gun.com. I’m guessing maybe they’re blowing them out because it still has the hinges trigger, and newer ones have the Glocky trigger. But I’m used to it since all my other M&Ps have that trigger and if I’m putting in an Apex trigger anyway, it’s money saved.

Again not as nice as a direct milled, but I thought it was a good price for a new base gun.
Downside is I only have one holster that works with the thumb safety, tall sight combo.
But I’ll get a JMCK in the near future.

109159

[TCinVA]

At that price I'm tempted to buy another one...even though I already have a compact that's been almost fully Toe-d.

[BobM]

I got a good deal on a used optic ready/manual safety compact at Cabelas this afternoon. I have three w/o manual safeties but I’m starting to use my Enigma more often and I like the safety lever. I’ve had an ACRO in the safe for months so I’ll order a plate assuming the gun works.

[Cool Breeze]

I was theorizing which platform I would go to if I wasn't invested in Glock and all the ancillary equipment. Admittedly, I was tempted for a half second to go HK P30, but this thread got me interested in the M&P. I'm not looking for a 1911-like gun but I thought it was fun to see how to optimize the platform in different ways.

While I absolutely hate the fact you have to take sights off to get access to fully strip the slide, its not the end of the world and the rest of the gun is relatively easy to take care of. There are some smaller parts compared to the Glock, but they they don't seem to be an issue. Mags are relatively inexpensive if you want to stock up for the boogaloo. The platform has been around for a while and has a proven track record for reliability. Admittedly, I was turned off about the 1.0s accuracy issues and the hook trigger, it seems like S&W have remedied those issues. Watching the Apex videos got me really excited for the level of engineering and research they put into their part development. For someone who doesn't use non-stock internals in my Glocks, these actually seem like a viable option - maybe even a semi-custom-level option above and beyond the OEM. And from memory, the grip does feel like a dream in the hand.

Probably one thing that got me curious is why was this pistol not considered (not even sure it was submitted) for any of the federal/mil contracts of the last few years. I'd be really interested in how it stacked up if it was submitted.

Overall, thanks for the thread. It was a fun read - even for a Glock guy.

[TCinVA]

While I absolutely hate the fact you have to take sights off to get access to fully strip the slide,


Good news! That's not a thing on the CORE models. They have a little plate on top that holds in the striker block spring.

[JTQ]

For another $1,000, Ed Brown will do the labor for you.

https://www.edbrown.com/fueled-series/

American Handgunner Nov/Dec 2023 cover story is on the Ed Brown S&W M&P Fueled Series

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/semi-auto-handguns/the-fusion-of-aesthetics-and-ability/

[BobM]

I got a good deal on a used optic ready/manual safety compact at Cabelas this afternoon. I have three w/o manual safeties but I’m starting to use my Enigma more often and I like the safety lever. I’ve had an ACRO in the safe for months so I’ll order a plate assuming the gun works.

The Eleven 71 plate arrived today, fortunately including threadlocker. I’m hoping to get it assembled and zeroed later in the week.

[mmc45414]

Probably one thing that got me curious is why was this pistol not considered (not even sure it was submitted) for any of the federal/mil contracts of the last few years. I'd be really interested in how it stacked up if it was submitted.

I always thought that was why #11537 (https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/m-p-9-m2.0-fde) had not only the thumb safety but the LCI lever thingy?

[Toe]

What’s the current consensus for the best duty holsters for this setup?

[David S.]

Random bit.

Firing pin on my 2.0 broke. The tip broke off. I'd guess less than 3k rounds through it, but a fair bit of dry fire, if it matters. :shrug:

Apex barrel, trigger and now replacement firing pin assembly are on their way.

[Wonder9]

This thread is stupid because had a Gen5 G26 MOS in hand, but I walked out my friendly FFL with this instead. Trigger take-up is kinda gritty, but the wall and reset is super nice.

112156

[Colt191145lover]

Random bit.

Firing pin on my 2.0 broke. The tip broke off. I'd guess less than 3k rounds through it, but a fair bit of dry fire, if it matters. :shrug:

Apex barrel, trigger and now replacement firing pin assembly are on their way.


M&P Strikers have always been susceptible to breaking with dry fire. I broke one dry firing without snap caps in 2 weeks. After that I always used snap caps, have not broken one since.

[BobM]

My JMCK Enigma shell and belt holster arrived yesterday so I started dry work with a safety equipped pistol.

[TCinVA]

This thread is stupid because had a Gen5 G26 MOS in hand, but I walked out my friendly FFL with this instead. Trigger take-up is kinda gritty, but the wall and reset is super nice.

112156

I was in King's Firearms in Columbia, TN today looking at police trade-in 870's. They had police trade-in optics cut 2.0's, too...guns that had never seen even 500 rounds based on condition for $359. I bought one.

I don't need one...but I bought one.

[G19Fan]

I was in King's Firearms in Columbia, TN today looking at police trade-in 870's. They had police trade-in optics cut 2.0's, too...guns that had never seen even 500 rounds based on condition for $359. I bought one.

I don't need one...but I bought one.

Do they ship?

[Wonder9]

I was in King's Firearms in Columbia, TN today looking at police trade-in 870's. They had police trade-in optics cut 2.0's, too...guns that had never seen even 500 rounds based on condition for $359. I bought one.

I don't need one...but I bought one.

When I bought it, I didn't need another Shield Plus, but they were on sale for $339 + the $50 rebate from Big Blue. Can't beat a $289 Shield Plus, even considering the cost to get it milled for a RDS.

Got to say, S&W doing away with the hinged trigger for the Glock-like dingus has really made me appreciate the M&P 2.0 line without really needing an Apex trigger shoe. If they would just start selling all their parts like Glock/Sig, I would probably start drinking the Blue Kool-Aid exclusively.

[mmc45414]

If they would just start selling all their parts like Glock/Sig, I would probably start drinking the Blue Kool-Aid exclusively.
Seems like not much is not available at Midwest Gun Works.

[TCinVA]

Do they ship?

They do. They're shipping my pistol to my local FFL since I'm not in my state of residence.

[Wonder9]

This thread is even more stupid... how stupid good this M&P shoots. First 50 rounds @ 15 yards cold. Outliners are 100% me finding the where to hold for sights during the first magazine. Even at 25 yards, most rounds were in the 9 ring with a few flyers in the 8 ring, but I was having trouble with the irons against a black target. Once I get a RDS on it, I'll expect it to be even better. This is going to be replacing the G45 for house duty, except I'm going to move a TLR-1HL on it because the CT light is easy to activate by accident. I don't even know if I can justify an Apex barrel how well it shoots stock.

tl;dr I'm going balls deep into the M&P 2.0 now.

112210

[TCinVA]

So on the subject of my Not-A-toe...

113449

113450

I dropped one shot on the bullseye portion of the Pistol Master standards ever so slightly into the 9 ring...which I knew as I was doing it, but I was too spaced out on that shot to correct it. Because I had the dumbs at that moment as it was one of the "easy" stages, at least in my mind. Never sleep on any one of Tom's exercises, kiddies. It'll bite you the instant you do.

Of course, the gun is useless if you don't know how to shoot. But if you can shoot a little bit it's pretty frickin' sweet.

There were a number of people very interested in my pistol, especially as I posted better scores than multiple actual Toe users.

I've spent a fair bit of time lately working on pure speed...and it's in this work that the benefits of having a gun that actually fits your hands properly come through even louder. Working on 50/50 draws (draws where I can expect to actually achieve the hit or the speed maybe half the time) I noticed a distinct lack of significant steerage to the left or right on most shots. Things stay remarkably centered up even when I make a complete hash of it. This is a highly useful advantage should I find the need to fight for my life with this thing.

[Wonder9]

FWIW, I picked up another 2.0 Compact thinking the first one was a fluke and was an exceptionally accurate example from the factory. At first, I thought I was right because my shots were all to the left until I discovered the front sight was pushed too far right in the dovetail. A sight adjustment later, it is just as accurate as the first 2.0 Compact.

I don't know what it is about the 2.0s that make them so easy to shoot. With my H&Ks and Glocks I have to put in the work with proper trigger control & positioning of the trigger finger. The 2.0s are very forgiving when it comes to both and makes me look like a much better shooter than I am. Also a big recommendation for the Calculated Kinetics Dogtag RDS plate if you don't have a direct mount optic. Keeps all the blowback from the LCI off the optic.

[Brianjkeene]

FWIW, I picked up another 2.0 Compact thinking the first one was a fluke and was an exceptionally accurate example from the factory. At first, I thought I was right because my shots were all to the left until I discovered the front sight was pushed too far right in the dovetail. A sight adjustment later, it is just as accurate as the first 2.0 Compact.

I don't know what it is about the 2.0s that make them so easy to shoot. With my H&Ks and Glocks I have to put in the work with proper trigger control & positioning of the trigger finger. The 2.0s are very forgiving when it comes to both and makes me look like a much better shooter than I am. Also a big recommendation for the Calculated Kinetics Dogtag RDS plate if you don't have a direct mount optic. Keeps all the blowback from the LCI off the optic.

2.0's and P10's tend to be the same for me vs other striker platforms - just naturally easier to shoot. Oddly, I feel the same way about the FN509 but I can't get behind their internal design decisions to run one.

[UNK]

Ive got a question. Has anybody tried running Lost River ammo through one of these?

[DamnYankee]

Academy Sports has the no thumb safety version on sale currently. I am tempted to pick one up. How does the 2.0 stack up against the Shadow Systems MR920?

[G19Fan]

Academy Sports has the no thumb safety version on sale currently. I am tempted to pick one up. How does the 2.0 stack up against the Shadow Systems MR920?

I feel like the mp9 is softer shooting with better ergos.

Also more reliable

[Spartan1980]

Ive got a question. Has anybody tried running Lost River ammo through one of these?

I haven't done a lot with my 2.0, but if my several iterations of 1.0's are an indicator, I'd bet his ammo will run without any issue whatsoever. My 1.0's are not the least bit picky on velocity or bullet profile, they are like the Energizer Bunny.

[HCM]

Academy Sports has the no thumb safety version on sale currently. I am tempted to pick one up. How does the 2.0 stack up against the Shadow Systems MR920?

I wouldn’t buy a Shadow systems.

I’ve seen too many with accuracy and reliability issues. This is compounded by a customer service model that makes the old HK “you suck and we hate you” CS model seem positively warm and fuzzy.

[TCinVA]

Academy Sports has the no thumb safety version on sale currently. I am tempted to pick one up. How does the 2.0 stack up against the Shadow Systems MR920?

The SS is a product improved Glock. And by "product improved" I mean it has nicer ergonomics. Reliability seems to be kind of hit or miss with them out of the box.

The good side is that the SS guns don't cut my hands.

The bad side is that the grip is still sub-optimally shaped for my hands and having seen a number of them in class now the ubiquitous Glock lateral push in overtravel is still there on them. And they can't take an SCD because of the way their slide is set up. So they fail a number of my requirements for this particular setup.

The ones I've shot have had nice triggers. A little too nice for my comfort. As in I found it difficult to reset in recoil without actually firing a second shot well before I intended.

[G19Fan]

Academy Sports has the no thumb safety version on sale currently. I am tempted to pick one up. How does the 2.0 stack up against the Shadow Systems MR920?

I love the shadow system frames. But I sell.everything else and use oem glock internals.and slides

Used.to own 5 shadow system with glock slides and internals. Currently own none.

[SPAM]

How is the carbon build up on the P2 with the LCI witness hole? Does the apex barrel help reduce that any over stock?

[MD7305]

114724
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-pistol-with-acro-optic-bundle-law-enforcement-only

I sure wish this bundle would've been available 12 months ago when my PD began going down the pistol optics rabbithole. S&W also has a metal frame gun, factory cut for the Acro now. Cool stuff.

[crosseyedshooter]

114724
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-pistol-with-acro-optic-bundle-law-enforcement-only

I sure wish this bundle would've been available 12 months ago when my PD began going down the pistol optics rabbithole. S&W also has a metal frame gun, factory cut for the Acro now. Cool stuff.

It doesn't look like they need suppressor height sights with that setup. I'm surprised they didn't go with the low sights.

[358156hp]

It doesn't look like they need suppressor height sights with that setup. I'm surprised they didn't go with the low sights.

My bet is that they're there because people expect to see them on an optical pistol.

No pun intended...

[MD7305]

It doesn't look like they need suppressor height sights with that setup. I'm surprised they didn't go with the low sights.

The Acro-specific M&P we had for demo had the tall sights and you're absolutely right. The standard height sights they offer on some of their optic-ready pistols would offer a less obstructed but usable sight picture. That aside, I'm glad to finally see these bundles offered. In June the sales rep hinted that they were working on it but I'm sure things move slow, especially after relocating their HQ.

[Spartan1980]

This one appears to have the low sights, which it needs. Had this package been available AND in a commercial retail SKU I'd have bought it. It would have saved me a set of Dawson sights, not that there's anything wrong with them, they are my favorite aftermarket sights. :(

And why in the Sam Hell do they only have optic bundles as LE only SKUs?

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-m2-with-holosun-optical-sight-law-enforcement-only

[DpdG]

Are there any alternatives for slide stops? I’ve got a very thumbs high/forward grip and I’m both activating the slide stop prematurely and not reliably getting slide lock on empty. For Glocks I use Kagwerks slide-stops but so far I haven’t found an equivalent for the M&P.

[Hstanton1]

This one appears to have the low sights, which it needs. Had this package been available AND in a commercial retail SKU I'd have bought it. It would have saved me a set of Dawson sights, not that there's anything wrong with them, they are my favorite aftermarket sights. :(

And why in the Sam Hell do they only have optic bundles as LE only SKUs?

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-m2-with-holosun-optical-sight-law-enforcement-only

The fact that these LE only SKUs seem to be the best options and are also LE only is the biggest thing keeping me from switching over to M&Ps. There’s a ton to like over my current g19/g45s, but without a reliable optics mounting solution the whole concept goes out the window in my opinion.

Granted, I’ve had good luck with a relatively early production CHPWS V4 plate for a few years now, so maybe I’d have good luck with stock CORE plates too.

[MD7305]

Are there any alternatives for slide stops? I’ve got a very thumbs high/forward grip and I’m both activating the slide stop prematurely and not reliably getting slide lock on empty. For Glocks I use Kagwerks slide-stops but so far I haven’t found an equivalent for the M&P.

Do you experience this with all M&Ps or specifically with the optic ready guns? The optic ready models have wider slide release levers and when we issued our optic ready guns, that replaced older, standard M&Ps, we had a few shooters that experienced the same issue. To remedy it, we swapped out the wide slide release for a standard release and it solved the issue.

Otherwise, I'm not aware of any aftermarket slide release levers.

[DpdG]

Do you experience this with all M&Ps or specifically with the optic ready guns? The optic ready models have wider slide release levers and when we issued our optic ready guns, that replaced older, standard M&Ps, we had a few shooters that experienced the same issue. To remedy it, we swapped out the wide slide release for a standard release and it solved the issue.

Otherwise, I'm not aware of any aftermarket slide release levers.

Specifically the Acro direct cut factory gun. Only other experience with the m&p line is a 1.0/45 from 2009 and I can’t remember any issues with that, although it was 15 years ago. I’ll try to find a non-OR slide stop.

[psalms144.1]

I'm M&P curious at this point, thinking about building one of my own. Anyone know what sights are on that LE SKU pistol with the SCS on it? That's pretty much what I'd want to buy, but none of my LE dealers are showing that SKU as available...

Thanks!

Kevin

[Noah]

I'm M&P curious at this point, thinking about building one of my own. Anyone know what sights are on that LE SKU pistol with the SCS on it? That's pretty much what I'd want to buy, but none of my LE dealers are showing that SKU as available...

Thanks!

Kevin

13943, looks like low/standard height 3 dots

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-m2-with-holosun-optical-sight-law-enforcement-only

115335

[TCinVA]

13943, looks like low/standard height 3 dots

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-m2-with-holosun-optical-sight-law-enforcement-only

115335

Yup. Those are the normal height sights, not the "suppressor height" that come with the Acro cut/CORE/whatever models.

[psalms144.1]

Understood. I was thinking about backing into the build, I prefer the Compact version, so I'm wondering if I can find just that low rear sight? I assume the front is a standard height, but I don't know of anyone making standard height "short" dovetail rears - all the ones I'm seeing are the "Novak-ish" rears for non optics ready models...

[mmc45414]

Understood. I was thinking about backing into the build, I prefer the Compact version, so I'm wondering if I can find just that low rear sight? I assume the front is a standard height, but I don't know of anyone making standard height "short" dovetail rears - all the ones I'm seeing are the "Novak-ish" rears for non optics ready models...
I always have assumed that the rear sights are Glock notches? Or am I thinking that is just what all the direct mill people do?

[Noah]

Understood. I was thinking about backing into the build, I prefer the Compact version, so I'm wondering if I can find just that low rear sight? I assume the front is a standard height, but I don't know of anyone making standard height "short" dovetail rears - all the ones I'm seeing are the "Novak-ish" rears for non optics ready models...

mmc45414

https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-for-smith-wesson-m-p-c-o-r-e-pistols-fixed-carry-black-rear-by-dawson-precision/

[psalms144.1]

mmc45414

https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-for-smith-wesson-m-p-c-o-r-e-pistols-fixed-carry-black-rear-by-dawson-precision/Awesome, thanks!

[breakingtime91]

I grabbed a new 2.0 4 inch compact with thumb safetys.


I dont have a reason, my dog died and I wanted something new to mess with. Well now with my grip being different (Make a fist and squeeze, you will feel how much comes from your pinky) and missing half my dominant hand pinky, I think I'm going to appreciate the trigger.

[Noah]

I grabbed a new 2.0 4 inch compact with thumb safetys.


I dont have a reason, my dog died and I wanted something new to mess with. Well now with my grip being different (Make a fist and squeeze, you will feel how much comes from your pinky) and missing half my dominant hand pinky, I think I'm going to appreciate the trigger.

Sorry to hear about the loss.

[breakingtime91]

Sorry to hear about the loss.

Thank you, she was the best. Beautiful 11 year old German Shepherd. Would have been 12 next month.

[G19Fan]

I grabbed a new 2.0 4 inch compact with thumb safetys.


I dont have a reason, my dog died and I wanted something new to mess with. Well now with my grip being different (Make a fist and squeeze, you will feel how much comes from your pinky) and missing half my dominant hand pinky, I think I'm going to appreciate the trigger.

Sorry to hear about your loss. Our oldest is 15 and that day is going to make me very sad

[HCM]

I always have assumed that the rear sights are Glock notches? Or am I thinking that is just what all the direct mill people do?

S&W CORE don’t use Glock rears. You might be thinking of the Walther PDP.

If you see that on an M&P it’s custom work..

[757_Magnum]

I grabbed a new 2.0 4 inch compact with thumb safetys.


I dont have a reason, my dog died and I wanted something new to mess with. Well now with my grip being different (Make a fist and squeeze, you will feel how much comes from your pinky) and missing half my dominant hand pinky, I think I'm going to appreciate the trigger.

Sorry for your loss. I look at my own pup and my heart breaks as I see her greys multiply.

To keep it on subject, I just got a 2.0 Compact, but I'm having mine direct milled in my favored irons-forward configuration at Jagerwerks. I'm trying to decide between the Apex semi-drop in or the Rogue Gunworks/Mayhem Syndicate barrel and comp like I have on my G19.5s. Does anyone have experience with the latter on the M&Ps? It's annoying that if I go that route, it's going to complicate holster selection.

[TCinVA]

So on the accuracy front...

Some have misinterpreted my choice to put an Apex barrel in my guns to mean that you have to put an aftermarket barrel in the guns to make them shoot. That's not necessarily so. Every 2.0 I've shot will hold black at 25 yards easily with decent ammunition, and probably significantly better than that if you have the time to actually run the gun properly to test it. Usually I'm shooting a gun that isn't mine to briefly troubleshoot for a client so the time and opportunity to really see what it's capable of isn't there.

A retired LE buddy of mine swapped to an M&P compact recently and when we were out at the range I checked his zero on my target where I'd already checked and tweaked the zero on my compact:

115542 115543

Those three rounds in the 6:00 of the 10 ring were the three I fired from his gun to validate zero. This was with Blazer aluminum 115 grain. Three rounds holding hands at 25 yards fired offhand with a stock barrel.

Afterwards we did a little more 25 yard shooting where he was easily holding black and he said "I've never shot anything like this at 25 in my life."

He'd been asking about whether or not he needed an Apex barrel in his gun. I'd say no.

My Apex barrels are really, really nice. They let me hold the X ring at 25 yards when I do my part on the trigger. If you're looking for maximum accuracy out of the M&P platform you most definitely want one. But don't think you need one to make an M&P shoot accurately. If you identify that the gun you end up with does need a barrel to improve accuracy, by all means go for it. Highly recommended.

But don't assume that it's a requirement.

[TCinVA]

Sorry for your loss. I look at my own pup and my heart breaks as I see her greys multiply.

To keep it on subject, I just got a 2.0 Compact, but I'm having mine direct milled in my favored irons-forward configuration at Jagerwerks. I'm trying to decide between the Apex semi-drop in or the Rogue Gunworks/Mayhem Syndicate barrel and comp like I have on my G19.5s. Does anyone have experience with the latter on the M&Ps? It's annoying that if I go that route, it's going to complicate holster selection.

I do not.

Googling, I can't tell if the barrel requires fitting to your slide and locking block. If it doesn't, there's no guarantee it's going to do much for you on accuracy. If you do have to fit the barrel to the breechface and the locking block, odds are it will boost accuracy.

[breakingtime91]

I do not.

Googling, I can't tell if the barrel requires fitting to your slide and locking block. If it doesn't, there's no guarantee it's going to do much for you on accuracy. If you do have to fit the barrel to the breechface and the locking block, odds are it will boost accuracy.

TCinVA do you know of any issues running 17 round mags as spares in a compact? I also just ordered a dog tag plate for an eps carry I have, will update on the plate when I get my compact and the plate.

[breakingtime91]

What back up irons are yall running on the full size or compacts? Dogtag plate states it puts the factory high irons at a lower 1/3 in the eps carry optic window. I'll see how much that bothers me, shouldn't be bad at all

[TCinVA]

@TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4) do you know of any issues running 17 round mags as spares in a compact? I also just ordered a dog tag plate for an eps carry I have, will update on the plate when I get my compact and the plate.

I run a 17 round spare when I carry the compact and I shoot the compact with the full sized magazines all the time. Doesn't seem to be an issue.

[mmc45414]

TCinVA do you know of any issues running 17 round mags as spares in a compact?

I have done so with no problems, a few months ago I left my pistol in the safe by mistake and shot my Compact at three gun will all my 17rnd mags I brought for the gun I left at home.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

But don't assume that it's a requirement.
After buying a pistol ($500), milling ($150) for an optic ($500) and installing a trigger kit ($100), like Norm would tell Bob Villa:
It is a case of the Might-As-Wells.

Never mind that they might get sued for going over budget...



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

It's annoying that if I go that route, it's going to complicate holster selection.

JMCK has lots of options for 5in M&Ps, looks like those comps are small?



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[757_Magnum]

So on the accuracy front...

Some have misinterpreted my choice to put an Apex barrel in my guns to mean that you have to put an aftermarket barrel in the guns to make them shoot. That's not necessarily so. Every 2.0 I've shot will hold black at 25 yards easily with decent ammunition, and probably significantly better than that if you have the time to actually run the gun properly to test it.
...
But don't assume that it's a requirement.

My interpretation was that the factory barrels are typical of most quality striker-fired pistols, which is better than the majority of shooters, but adding an Apex barrel could take the potential of the platform to another level provided the shooter is up to it.


After buying a pistol ($500), milling ($150) for an optic ($500) and installing a trigger kit ($100), like Norm would tell Bob Villa:
It is a case of the Might-As-Wells.

Never mind that they might get sued for going over budget...



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

These are pretty much my same thoughts on this. If I'm heavily invested in Glocks, but willing to wring out an M&P 2.0 to see if it works even better for me, I might as well go all in on this build.


JMCK has lots of options for 5in M&Ps, looks like those comps are small?



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Yes, they're nice and small and will bump a Glock up to just the next size (ex. G17 > G34). I'm a little guy with not much real estate. I'm currently carrying a G19 with that comp setup in a JMCK G17 holster, and it's about at the limit of comfort for me. A 5 inch AIWB holster might just be too big, and I'd have to get an adapter for a Safariland ALS holster. Maybe I'm just too spoiled with Glock's sizing system.

[breakingtime91]

What safariland als works with this set up? With rds and wml of course.

X300? Tlr7?

[TCinVA]

What safariland als works with this set up? With rds and wml of course.

X300? Tlr7?

Safariland's holster model convention being almost incomprehensible, I can never remember exactly which holster I bought. But looking at their site the 6354 for an optic with an X300 is the closest to what I think I'm using, only my holster is in a black multicam, and that only because I didn't snag one of the Magnum PI print holsters in time.

It doesn't explicitly say it works with the Acro, but mine works just fine with the Acro on my pistol.

I will use the Safariland in class when I have a laser attached for teaching purposes, or when we're teaching low light.

[breakingtime91]

Safariland's holster model convention being almost incomprehensible, I can never remember exactly which holster I bought. But looking at their site the 6354 for an optic with an X300 is the closest to what I think I'm using, only my holster is in a black multicam, and that only because I didn't snag one of the Magnum PI print holsters in time.

It doesn't explicitly say it works with the Acro, but mine works just fine with the Acro on my pistol.

I will use the Safariland in class when I have a laser attached for teaching purposes, or when we're teaching low light.

I like it for when I'm shooting carbine. Shooting from the prone with an appendix holster on is not my favorite.

[Noah]

I like it for when I'm shooting carbine. Shooting from the prone with an appendix holster on is not my favorite.

Funny, I do the same thing. I do all my pistol practice from concealment, but when I shoot rifle at my normal range (probably every other month) I'll grab my ninja ruck belt with a Safariland for thst reason.

Visiting a long distance range rather than my usual haunt this summer, I didn't know their rules for having a pistol on you while shooting rifle, so I actually concealed my G42 at 4 o clock. First time I left the house carrying behind the hip since 2017 haha.

[breakingtime91]

Funny, I do the same thing. I do all my pistol practice from concealment, but when I shoot rifle at my normal range (probably every other month) I'll grab my ninja ruck belt with a Safariland for thst reason.

Visiting a long distance range rather than my usual haunt this summer, I didn't know their rules for having a pistol on you while shooting rifle, so I actually concealed my G42 at 4 o clock. First time I left the house carrying behind the hip since 2017 haha.


I have dealth with quite a few people on local ranges that got my "spider senses" going so I always prefer to have a loaded and ready to go firearm on me. Any time I train pistol it's from appendix, well, 99/1%

[Noah]

I have dealth with quite a few people on local ranges that got my "spider senses" going so I always prefer to have a loaded and ready to go firearm on me. Any time I train pistol it's from appendix, well, 99/1%

Absolutely. I always have at least 1 "extra" fully loaded mag on me when shooting pistol drills, beyond the downloaded or empty mag or 2 I am training with.

There have been times I shoot a little rifle and go prone to zero and take my AIWB off, but I'll keep a spare rifle mag around.

[757_Magnum]

What safariland als works with this set up? With rds and wml of course.

X300? Tlr7?

This chart on Safariland's site is easier than using their holster finder. I think most of the regulars on this forum are savvy enough to figure out certain equivalent fits, like a milled G45 still fitting in a G19 MOS holster. The model numbers are something like this: The first series of numbers are the holster model, second set of digits refers to the pistol/light, and the last set is for the finish. I've pretty much stuck to the 6390RDS holster for my Glocks, and will get the same to try out the M&P 2.0 Compact.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0086/8689/5184/files/PT_4_1-5-24_Concealment_Duty_and_Tactical_Holsters_for_Pist ols_with_Optic_3007bf92-6d8f-43b2-a35d-6938d13329dc.pdf?v=1704821119

[mmc45414]

I have dealt with quite a few people on local ranges that got my "spider senses" going so I always prefer to have a loaded and ready to go firearm on me. Any time I train pistol it's from appendix, well, 99/1%
I always keep in mind that Platt and Matix of Miami infamy got most of their weapons by ambushing and murdering a guy who was out in the everglades plinking.


I run a 17 round spare when I carry the compact and I shoot the compact with the full sized magazines all the time. Doesn't seem to be an issue.
And now S&W has the 23rnd mags, and they fit very nicely in the JMCK High Ride AIWB mag pouch (https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/Q-AIWB-High-Ride-Single-Pistol-Mag-Pouch.html):

115591

115592

[Dave Williams]

I always keep in mind that Platt and Matix of Miami infamy got most of their weapons by ambushing and murdering a guy who was out in the everglades

My son and I were at a remote range in the UP sighting in his AR this past summer, and I told him of the ambushes, and the need for us to be armed and in yellow while at the range. Lotta people don’t know this kind of stuff!

[mmc45414]

they fit very nicely in the JMCK High Ride AIWB mag pouch (https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/Q-AIWB-High-Ride-Single-Pistol-Mag-Pouch.html)
Edit window is closed, so quoted myself.
I am not all in on AIWB, I still carry the gun IWB at about 3:00, but the AIWB mag pouch is great. My anatomy might not be optimal for an AIWB holster, but it has this perfect little indent where that big magazine fits nicley (like a J-frame, I do carry them AIWB). And the extended magazines seem to work well there also. Here is my Shield Plus 15rnd mag in the basic JMCK AIWB pouch:

115615

[breakingtime91]

Picked up my MP compact 2.0 today from my ffl. Thumbsafety and OR model with the new trigger. I have to say, I am really impressed. The last time I owned a MP was almost a decade ago and it was the 1.0 version. The safety is positive, not 1911 positive, but I'm not concerned it'll take itself off safe. I like the factory tall sights, good light around the front blade and they are not sharp, I just used a matte black paint pen on the rear sight. The trigger is what I really like, I don't think I'll be changing anything from stock. Nice take up that is light but long (which I prefer) with a little bit of grit that'll work out with shooting and a silky smooth light break and short reset. Is it a 1911 trigger? Nope. Is is it a really nice striker trigger? Sure is. So if you want to get your toes wet you can get a model with the new trigger, optic ready (I went with a dog tag plate to cut down on carbon on the front of my optic window), and shoot it for under 700 dollars before the optic.


Now I'm just waiting on spare mags and my JM holster/mag pouch

[parishioner]

I'm a bit of a luddite, is there a SKU for a MS M&P 2.0 Compact in 9mm that has the new trigger dingus and forward serrations that is not OR?

I can't seem to locate one on S&W's website and it may be because it doesn't exist which wouldn't shock me, as OR slides seem to be becoming the standard with manufacturers.

[Noah]

I'm a bit of a luddite, is there a SKU for a MS M&P 2.0 Compact in 9mm that has the new trigger dingus and forward serrations that is not OR?

I can't seem to locate one on S&W's website and it may be because it doesn't exist which wouldn't shock me, as OR slides seem to be becoming the standard with manufacturers.

Pretty sure all the new M&Ps are forward serrations, flat trigger, optic ready.

ETA:
https://www.smith-wesson.com/products/pistols?caliber=9MM&barrellength=4
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-compact-ca-compliant

Looks like the new CA one is normal sights/non cut, flat trigger, but NO forward serrations, and the LCI may preclude an optic cut.

[Patrick Taylor]

Do not have or even shot a 2011 but if the newer ones hitting the market run.....


https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/160450/tisas+1911+9mm+duty+5+black+double+stack+2+17rd

[breakingtime91]

Do not have or even shot a 2011 but if the newer ones hitting the market run.....


https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/160450/tisas+1911+9mm+duty+5+black+double+stack+2+17rd

I would not trust my life to a 700 dollar 2011

[breakingtime91]

I'm a bit of a luddite, is there a SKU for a MS M&P 2.0 Compact in 9mm that has the new trigger dingus and forward serrations that is not OR?

I can't seem to locate one on S&W's website and it may be because it doesn't exist which wouldn't shock me, as OR slides seem to be becoming the standard with manufacturers.

The or plate is well done, attractive and out of the way. The sights, if they hit POA, are really quite nice.

[crosseyedshooter]

I'm a bit of a luddite, is there a SKU for a MS M&P 2.0 Compact in 9mm that has the new trigger dingus and forward serrations that is not OR?

If you’re talking 9mm, forward serrations in commercial models only coming on the OR slides. So, if you want forward serrations, you gotta go with the OR plate which really isn’t an issue as it blends very well with the slide and even makes servicing the striker block easier. The bigger issue is the OR slides come with tall (suppressor height) sights that have pokey corners. There are LE OR SKUs that come with the low irons, but I only see 4.25” full-size models. If you don’t mind the tall pokey sights or changing them out, then the compact OR model should do.

[HCM]

Pretty sure all the new M&Ps are forward serrations, flat trigger, optic ready.

ETA:
https://www.smith-wesson.com/products/pistols?caliber=9MM&barrellength=4
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp9-compact-ca-compliant

Looks like the new CA one is normal sights/non cut, flat trigger, but NO forward serrations, and the LCI may preclude an optic cut.

S&W still makes iron sight M&Ps but the made the optics ready versions the standard model a year or two ago.

[bofe954]

If you’re talking 9mm, forward serrations in commercial models only coming on the OR slides. So, if you want forward serrations, you gotta go with the OR plate which really isn’t an issue as it blends very well with the slide and even makes servicing the striker block easier. The bigger issue is the OR slides come with tall (suppressor height) sights that have pokey corners. There are LE OR SKUs that come with the low irons, but I only see 4.25” full-size models. If you don’t mind the tall pokey sights or changing them out, then the compact OR model should do.

The aluminum frames seem to have the low sights.

[MD7305]

I'm a bit of a luddite, is there a SKU for a MS M&P 2.0 Compact in 9mm that has the new trigger dingus and forward serrations that is not OR?

I can't seem to locate one on S&W's website and it may be because it doesn't exist which wouldn't shock me, as OR slides seem to be becoming the standard with manufacturers.

SKU 12638 will get you a Compact with front serrations but no manual safety and the older, hinged trigger. Adding a manual safety is an option and you might be able to find a newer style trigger to swap in. I realize that's a bit of trouble to get what you want.

Otherwise you could get the manual safety optic model and get shorter height sights from S&W or Dawson Precision, if you can live with the optic cover plate.

[psalms144.1]

Anyone smart on M&P model #'s that can tell me the general differences between 12xxx model and 13xxx model? Asking because the 12 I'm looking at has the old-style trigger (which I'm planning on APEXing anyway), but has standard height NS, instead of the mizzen mast height version. The 13xxx has the new trigger, but the tall sights. Just checking if there are any other generational changes from the 12's to the 13's that would make it worth paying $65 more for the 13xxx AND having to replace the sights.

Thanks!

Kevin

[Noah]

Is it as simple as the 12xxx models are the old hinged trigger and the 13xxx models are the flat trigger, forward serrations?

[psalms144.1]

Is it as simple as the 12xxx models are the old hinged trigger and the 13xxx models are the flat trigger, forward serrations?No idea. The 12xxx has forward slide serrations as well. Just trying to make sure there hasn't been any major incremental changes

[crosseyedshooter]

Anyone smart on M&P model #'s that can tell me the general differences between 12xxx model and 13xxx model? Asking because the 12 I'm looking at has the old-style trigger (which I'm planning on APEXing anyway), but has standard height NS, instead of the mizzen mast height version. The 13xxx has the new trigger, but the tall sights. Just checking if there are any other generational changes from the 12's to the 13's that would make it worth paying $65 more for the 13xxx AND having to replace the sights.

Thanks!

Kevin

Did I miss the exact model numbers you were looking at? If it has the hinged trigger and forward slide serrations, it’s probably an LE SKU which means an extra magazine and tritium sights. If it’s the newer flat trigger model with forward slide serrations, it could be an LE SKU or a commercial SKU. The LE SKU comes with an extra mag and rounded corners on the tritium nightsights. Commercial SKUs come with two magazines and white dot painted sights with pokey corners.

I’ve had different versions come with polished striker blocks and trigger bars, so it’s hard to say whether you’ll get that on a particular pistol.

[Spartan1980]

majorly snipped... You're now at $1050, or 42% of the price of a Stack-A-Toe with magazines that we know absolutely work reliably and cost a fair bit less to boot.

I shot USPSA with a 1.0 M&P Pro model in Limited minor for a year. Outdoor matches with dirt and gravel range bays. Back then I was shooting a local match every weekend (one at least, sometimes two a weekend) around the state and a few in Texas during that year. I was running Taylor Freelance extended basepads which attach with a couple of allen screws. I said "screw it" and never took them off to clean the mags. At first it was because it was just a pain in the ass, but after about 3 matches, it morphed into a "lets just see how far they go" sort of deal. I had small rocks in those things and they still ran, I never had a single feed malf in that entire year with those two mags having never been cleaned past shaking out what would come out and wiping down the exterior.

Just a data point for the cause...

[psalms144.1]

Did I miss the exact model numbers you were looking at? If it has the hinged trigger and forward slide serrations, it’s probably an LE SKU which means an extra magazine and tritium sights. If it’s the newer flat trigger model with forward slide serrations, it could be an LE SKU or a commercial SKU. The LE SKU comes with an extra mag and rounded corners on the tritium nightsights. Commercial SKUs come with two magazines and white dot painted sights with pokey corners.

I’ve had different versions come with polished striker blocks and trigger bars, so it’s hard to say whether you’ll get that on a particular pistol.Yes, they're both LE SKUs - 12662 vs 13616. I'm just going to roll the dice on the first, throw an SCS on it, and start sourcing the parts for the thumb safety. Eventually I'll APEXize the trigger, just have to figure out which variant I really want.

[breakingtime91]

I know this 100% anecdotal and not realistic but garand thumb did a "torture" test with mud and on a different occasion, the pistol being frozen simulating an artic environment.

The mp 2.0 passed and you could argue did the best out of most main stream manufacturers

[Noah]

I know this 100% anecdotal and not realistic but garand thumb did a "torture" test with mud and on a different occasion, the pistol being frozen simulating an artic environment.

The mp 2.0 passed and you could argue did the best out of most main stream manufacturers

Ironically it was the old hinged trigger that beat tab safety designs in the freeze test.

Also anecdotal, but I find the M&P to be the second most mechanically simple and robust and easy to detail strip gun I've messed with, 2nd only to Glock. Doing the same thing with fewer more robust parts is peak engineering

[Lunker]

This thread convinced me to pick up a m&p 2.0 5”, in peanut butter of course. Unfortunately, Apex barrels seem to be sold out everywhere. I will just put my name on the notification list and wait like everybody else.
Does anyone make a decent set of adjustable sites for this pistol? The LPA ones I see for S&W don’t have a great description for fitment, but I think they are for only third generation semi auto pistols.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bofe954]

This thread convinced me to pick up a m&p 2.0 5”, in peanut butter of course. Unfortunately, Apex barrels seem to be sold out everywhere. I will just put my name on the notification list and wait like everybody else.
Does anyone make a decent set of adjustable sites for this pistol? The LPA ones I see for S&W don’t have a great description for fitment, but I think they are for only third generation semi auto pistols.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See if you can check out accuracy with the stock barrel and post if you can. I'm looking at the 5 inch peanut butter vs the competition for a spare/guest USPSA rig and am curious how they shoot.

[Matt O]

See if you can check out accuracy with the stock barrel and post if you can. I'm looking at the 5 inch peanut butter vs the competition for a spare/guest USPSA rig and am curious how they shoot.

I purchased a 5" variant last week for the fun of it and shot it a bit over the weekend. After zeroing it, it didn't have any issues holding the center of a USPSA head box or a B8 bull at 25 yards. Stock barrel shot with 124 gr ball.

[bofe954]

This thread convinced me to pick up a m&p 2.0 5”, in peanut butter of course. Unfortunately, Apex barrels seem to be sold out everywhere. I will just put my name on the notification list and wait like everybody else.
Does anyone make a decent set of adjustable sites for this pistol? The LPA ones I see for S&W don’t have a great description for fitment, but I think they are for only third generation semi auto pistols.


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Another question too, for you or anyone that would know...Is the peanut butter just cerakote? The website seems to say Armornite but I can't tell if it's just the boilerplate M&P description.

[DDTSGM]

Does anyone make a decent set of adjustable sites for this pistol? The LPA ones I see for S&W don’t have a great description for fitment, but I think they are for only third generation semi auto pistols.

I have not found any adjustable sights and I looked. I finally settled on Dawson's fixed sights.

[willie]

I have not found any adjustable sights and I looked. I finally settled on Dawson's fixed sights.

A Google search showed 4 makers of adjustable sights for the M&P. My guess is that none is as serviceable as the fixed sight that you selected. I entered adjustable sights and S&W M&P. Bingo,

[willie]

I'm an apologist for S&W semi-auto handguns. As a kid I burned up large amounts of corrosive WW2 surplus ammo through an early Model 39 that my dad bought used for $40. I didn't know these pistols had problems until I read it in a gun magazine. Before UPS and FED EX ammo was shipped by rail. The guy at the Express Office would call you to pick it up. Nobody cared that a skinny 14 year old showed up to claim the box.

[CSW]

I have not found any adjustable sights and I looked. I finally settled on Dawson's fixed sights.

When I had my 2.0, I had a Williams adjustable on mine. Worked just fine.

https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/adjustable--sw-mp-firesights-not-shield-22lr--competition-070962

[Tannhauser]

Another question too, for you or anyone that would know...Is the peanut butter just cerakote? The website seems to say Armornite but I can't tell if it's just the boilerplate M&P description.

I think it's just Cerakote. I have two of the FDE M&P pistols, and both of them showed wear spots very shortly after I started doing dry fire with presentation from a kydex holster. My black colored M&P pistols with significantly more use and holster presentations show almost no wear.

I'm about to have a 5" slide cut for an optic and then refinished, and i'll probably go with a nitride finish instead of keeping the Cerakote.

[DDTSGM]

A Google search showed 4 makers of adjustable sights for the M&P. My guess is that none is as serviceable as the fixed sight that you selected. I entered adjustable sights and S&W M&P. Bingo,

Willie - I'm pleased and surprised. I bought my 2.0 in April 2017 (I looked at my log) and at the time couldn't find any. I have it shooting where I want now, but will probably either get in line for fiber optic novaks or get the HiViz for my police surplus .40 and .45.

[Steve m]

How is the durability of the “stack a toe”
Holding up?

[TCinVA]

How is the durability of the “stack a toe”
Holding up?

I broke the trigger return spring on my training gun week before last when I was doing a practice session. It's not surprising as when I'd bought that trigger kit from Apex they had stopped including the heavier TRS in the package. They still have them, however, and I was able to call them up and order more. The 2.0 Compact I built has the heavier TRS that probably lasts significantly longer with dryfire and live fire.

The training gun is my dryfire gun, so in addition to the 8,000 rounds or so the gun has through it there are a whole bunch of dryfires stacked on top of it. So the TRS breaking isn't a shock.

Apart from that, the guns have been running splendidly. The only stoppages I've experienced with either have been shooting support hand only with FMJ ammo (tends to catch a stovepipe like a double feed) as the barrel and slide fit were wearing in, and a few dud rounds where the issue was obviously the ammo.

Optics haven't budged.

Accuracy with both is still excellent. I haven't shot either for groups since I got them zeroed, but in the rounds fired I've not seen any bullet holes I can't explain by my own failures.

In the Professional Pistolcraft Instructor class late last year, my buddy Ashton's optic came loose and he didn't have a zeroed backup. So we took the top end of my training gun (slide, barrel, recoil spring) and put it on his frame and it ran splendidly. So apparently even the careful fitting job I did on the barrel doesn't preclude it from dropping on another gun and running, at least not now that it's well broken in.

[TCinVA]

There is a bit of an unfortunate update to the Toe concept.

Apex is no longer selling semi drop-in barrels (https://www.apextactical.com/blog/apex-news/why-were-discontinuing-apex-semi-drop-in-barrels/).

They give their explanation at the link above, but the upshot is that they've seen enough variation in the dimensions of the slides from S&W that they want to ensure that their barrels deliver the accuracy expected and the semis were dropping right in with no fitting on some customer guns due to variations in how S&W is manufacturing slides.

The upshot of the link is that from here on out, they will only be selling the gunsmith fitted barrels...but this isn't as bad as you would think.

The 2.0 and beyond gunsmith fitted barrels only have extra material on the barrel hood and the fitting pad on the underside of the barrel. It fits in exactly the same way as the semi drop-in barrels, it simply has more material on the two key fitting areas (length of barrel hood, fitting pad beneath) that you may have to remove to get to the fit you want.

Apex also offers fitting services.

I'm perfectly comfortable fitting the barrel myself because I had the chance to actually learn what I'm looking for directly from Randy Lee. It's not hard, but there is some "feel" to it. If you're not comfortable with it or don't trust your ability to be patient to remove material from your barrel one stroke of the file at a time, Apex's fitting services will be a good choice.

[mmc45414]

Optics haven't budged.
And this was with the direct mount Acro, correct?


the semis were dropping right in with no fitting on some customer guns due to variations in how S&W is manufacturing slides.
I think of the three SDIs I have done one did just about did DI, but was still plenty snug.

[TCinVA]

And this was with the direct mount Acro, correct?

Correct. Factory cut for the Acro.

[Steve m]

Thanks for the update, thinking of expanding my shooting beyond glock. (G19s chpws plates holosun 507c and gpts). People shoot IDPA with have nothing but compliments ref m&p 2.0

[DpdG]

I picked up one of the factory Acro cut/flat trigger guns last year. As compared to my usual Glock G5 with a chopped beaver tail, I find the trigger of the M&P to be much cleaner, if decidedly 2 stage vs my preferred rolling break. The grip texture is a decided pro and accuracy seems to be very acceptable. The “problem” is I would need to dedicate time to the M&P to clean up my dot acquisition index. I find the chopped beaver tail Glock and P320 x series grips close enough to not affect my index but the M&P is different enough I’m rather slow to acquire the dot on presentation.

[Brianjkeene]

509t direct mill factory options now.


https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-9-metal-with-slide-cut-for-holosun-509t-law-enforcement-only

[45dotACP]

So.....I was gonna do the other stuff like a thumb safety and a FSS kit+flat trigger....but then the gun started shooting like this at 20 yards so I said forget it. The stock trigger is good enough, and the barrel is great. Hat tip to Calculated Kinetics on the dope ass plate. This combo slaps.

BTW this was with 115gr Magtech steel case ammo. I was just on one today though, because my g26 (also stock except for a dot and sights) shot a group just maybe a half inch larger.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240606/d87cab7bd03df85161879f090904a5f7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240606/f58e1d1fa606d1de26da60712fe913b1.jpg

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[coN]

9500+ rounds in, and I still love it.
https://i.ibb.co/vYD5xY2/20240607-105727-picsay.jpg (https://ibb.co/pynDvyC)

[maximus83]

So.....I was gonna do the other stuff like a thumb safety and a FSS kit+flat trigger....but then the gun started shooting like this at 20 yards so I said forget it. The stock trigger is good enough, and the barrel is great. Hat tip to Calculated Kinetics on the dope ass plate. This combo slaps.

Nice shooting, and congrats on finding a straightforward setup with a minimum of aftermarket add-ons. Haven't read this entire thread, but if I gather correctly from your post, you've made only 2 upgrades?

* Apex barrel. Drop-in, or gunsmith fit?
* Your CK optic plate

How does the Apex barrel do versus the factory one?

[45dotACP]

Nice shooting, and congrats on finding a straightforward setup with a minimum of aftermarket add-ons. Haven't read this entire thread, but if I gather correctly from your post, you've made only 2 upgrades?

* Apex barrel. Drop-in, or gunsmith fit?
* Your CK optic plate

How does the Apex barrel do versus the factory one?

Yeah the only upgrades are plate and barrel. It's one of the new M&Ps with their newer style trigger. The plate gives me a lower 1/5th cowitness which I rather like. As for barrels, I got the drop in fit, but it still required a bit of fitting. Even with apex standardizing on gunsmith fit, I would recommend the upgrade. I've fit a few gunsmith fit barrels as well and it wasn't too bad, even without their jig. I may drop some coin for the jig though.

Either way, whether semi drop in or gunsmith fit, they all shoot much better than factory barrels for me.

[45dotACP]

This is a 15 round group at 20 yards. It is measured by caliper as 1.8"

Still with the stock trigger and Apex barrel. Crazy part? I could feel when the shots were drifting into that upper "lobe" of the group.

My next M&P will have ALL the goodies...flat trigger and forward sear etc.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240619/d3bd00e5660223fdb13f43f398211949.jpg

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[Steve m]

I have several Glocks that don’t see any range time. I can see selling them to fund this project.

[Hot Sauce]

Last of the Semi drop-in Apex (https://www.apextactical.com/apex-grade-mp-20c-4-inch-barrel-semi-drop-in-fit)barrels for 4” compact.

FREEDOMWEEK discount code will give you an extra 10% off until end of day on July 5th.

That’s $135 per barrel.

Total steal.

[TheNewbie]

Last of the Semi drop-in Apex (https://www.apextactical.com/apex-grade-mp-20c-4-inch-barrel-semi-drop-in-fit)barrels for 4” compact.

FREEDOMWEEK discount code will give you an extra 10% off until end of day on July 5th.

That’s $135 per barrel.

Total steal.


Did the say why they were ceasing production?

[TCinVA]

They did:

https://www.apextactical.com/blog/apex-news/why-were-discontinuing-apex-semi-drop-in-barrels/

[Steve m]

Starting the journey; s&w core compact 2.0, new trigger is pretty good may not need upgrades.
Installed a trl7x
Still need;
Barrel
Holster
Mag pouches
Optic plate (have optic)

Question;
Mine came with tall night sights that seem pretty sharp, what size Dawsons to get?

Been shooting Glocks for decades, had a pdp for a short time.

More to follow

[sickeness]

Starting the journey; s&w core compact 2.0, new trigger is pretty good may not need upgrades.
Installed a trl7x
Still need;
Barrel
Holster
Mag pouches
Optic plate (have optic)

Question;
Mine came with tall night sights that seem pretty sharp, what size Dawsons to get?

Been shooting Glocks for decades, had a pdp for a short time.

More to follow

FYI Ameriglo just released CORE height sights without sharp corners so keep that in mind as an option. I am usually opposed to Dawson's given how soft they are and how the finish doesn't hold up well.

[Steve m]

Thanks for the info

[thatguybryan]

FYI Ameriglo just released CORE height sights without sharp corners so keep that in mind as an option. I am usually opposed to Dawson's given how soft they are and how the finish doesn't hold up well.

I don’t need to spend more money on guns, but man these would make carrying my m&p so much more comfortable.

[Steve m]

Excited to see how time and scores compare to my Glock g19 gen5 I normally use

[Steve m]

Just hit the range with my almost done stack a toe.
Holosun 507c (factory metal plate) trl7x
245 rds today

Overall observations; pistol is easy to shoot, tracks well, dot returns to poa fairly fast for me.
Don’t have holster yet so everything was shot from low or compressed ready.
Surprisingly accurate with factory barrel, (apex semi fit on order)
In comparison to my current training pistol g19 gen5 witj trl7a, holosun 507c and Glock performance trigger, the m&p with factory trigger and barrel was softer shooting and more accurate.
After a rough 10 yd zero i did some drills
(The test) 100; 8:09
(Advanced test) all time standards met 295
25 yd b8 95 (fairly fast pace)121022121023121024
Very happy so far

[Hstanton1]

Question for those of you appendix carrying compact stack a toes here, how well are they concealing compared to g19 gen 5s? Is there an appreciable width difference? I’d imagine the corner of the mag doesn’t print the way it does on a Glock.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Question for those of you appendix carrying compact stack a toes here, how well are they concealing compared to g19 gen 5s? Is there an appreciable width difference? I’d imagine the corner of the mag doesn’t print the way it does on a Glock.

No issues for me in either DSG or JM AIWB rigs.


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[G19Fan]

Question for those of you appendix carrying compact stack a toes here, how well are they concealing compared to g19 gen 5s? Is there an appreciable width difference? I’d imagine the corner of the mag doesn’t print the way it does on a Glock.

Better concealment for me or equal

[awp_101]

As someone who realized a long time ago a dotted M&P was the solution to multiple problems all I can say is...

92471

Almost 2 years on and I still haven't done this.:rolleyes: If I want to do a budget build just for shits and giggles (I shall call it the Ghett-A-Toe), what's the best bang for the buck closed emitter optic? Holosun EPS? I'm just not willing to spend Acro/MPS money on something that's just simply going from the truck to the bench in a range bag, not on a duty belt.

[45dotACP]

Almost 2 years on and I still haven't done this.:rolleyes: If I want to do a budget build just for shits and giggles (I shall call it the Ghett-A-Toe), what's the best bang for the buck closed emitter optic? Holosun EPS? I'm just not willing to spend Acro/MPS money on something that's just simply going from the truck to the bench in a range bag, not on a duty belt.If you want a closed emitter probably the Holosun EPS, 509t, or the CHPWS versions.

If you don't care about a closed emitter, there's even more.

I just use a 407C which has a reputation for durability and low price.

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[Brianjkeene]

Question for those of you appendix carrying compact stack a toes here, how well are they concealing compared to g19 gen 5s? Is there an appreciable width difference? I’d imagine the corner of the mag doesn’t print the way it does on a Glock.

The grip conceals noticeably better but I can feel the weight difference.

[camel]

If you want a closed emitter probably the Holosun EPS, 509t, or the CHPWS versions.

If you don't care about a closed emitter, there's even more.

I just use a 407C which has a reputation for durability and low price.

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That’s not a bad way to go with.

[Steve m]

Barrel, file, fitting jig, kmck wing claw 2.5 and mag pouches ordered.

Any helpful advice for fitting, I watched the APEX video?

Thanks
Steve

[45dotACP]

Barrel, file, fitting jig, kmck wing claw 2.5 and mag pouches ordered.

Any helpful advice for fitting, I watched the APEX video?

Thanks
StevePost your target after you install that new barrel!

Otherwise, I'd say go slower than you think you need to if it gives you more even strokes of the file, especially on the lower lug

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[HeavyDuty]

If you want a closed emitter probably the Holosun EPS, 509t, or the CHPWS versions.

If you don't care about a closed emitter, there's even more.

I just use a 407C which has a reputation for durability and low price.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

Add SIG Romeo-X to the list, both closed and open.

[TCinVA]

Question for those of you appendix carrying compact stack a toes here, how well are they concealing compared to g19 gen 5s? Is there an appreciable width difference? I’d imagine the corner of the mag doesn’t print the way it does on a Glock.

I haven't done the G19 back to back, but I didn't see much of a difference packing the G17 with an Acro vs. the M&P with the Acro.

My compact does carry a little bit better in terms of concealment, but it's not as comfortable as the Holosun on it allows the rear sight to dig into my belly fat a little more.

I can probably fix that with fewer cheeseburgers, though.

[TCinVA]

Barrel, file, fitting jig, kmck wing claw 2.5 and mag pouches ordered.

Any helpful advice for fitting, I watched the APEX video?

Thanks
Steve

It really is as simple as they make it seem.

I would advise taking it easy, going slow, and not forgoing the use of the black or blue sharpie to help you figure out where you need to file. Dedicate some time, get a nice comfy setup with a tasty refreshing beverage or two handy, put on one of the Dirty Harry series movies and just take your time getting the fit right.

[awp_101]

If you want a closed emitter probably the Holosun EPS, 509t, or the CHPWS versions.

If you don't care about a closed emitter, there's even more.

I just use a 407C which has a reputation for durability and low price.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

Thanks! I’ve really grown to like tube optics on rifles and .22 pistols so I’d like to try a mailbox on for size.

[mmc45414]

I would advise taking it easy, going slow, and not forgoing the use of the black or blue sharpie to help you figure out where you need to file. Dedicate some time, get a nice comfy setup with a tasty refreshing beverage or two handy, put on one of the Dirty Harry series movies and just take your time getting the fit right.
This is a perfect summation. And when the gun will go closed maybe take it out and shoot it some.
Though I might watch Zero Dark Thirty, because I like the happy ending.

ETA:

Barrel, file, fitting jig
I will say that I didn't love the jig so much, and just went back to filing freehand.
I also would hold the barrel and move it against a flat piece of abrasive at the later stages.

[Steve m]

Thanks all for the barrel instal info.

Im still in awe how well this pistol shot better than my g19
,I have 7 years shooting that particular pistol.
S&W compact is easier for me to shoot well, that sums it up.

[sickeness]

TBH, the Apex barrel is not really that necessary on a 2.0 model.
Every 2.0 I've owned (I have over a half dozen) is capable of 2-3 inches at 25 yards offhand easily equal to or exceeding a Gen5 Glock.

The 1.0 is another story, I would honestly just save the effort and stick with the stock barrel unless it's just not performing.
Most of the suggestions from people online about needing an APEX are carry over from the 1.0 days.

[HeavyDuty]

I was following this thread from the beginning but drifted off. Rereading it makes the project sound very appealing, in my case as a range and game pistol instead of for carry.

I was a heavy M&P user from 2006 until 2016 or so, whenever it was that SCDs hit the scene - but definitely pre 2.0. My .40 and 9mm Shields and Compacts are great, my 9mm full size was a shotgun and the .45 Compact with spare midsize upper is frickin’ amazing. All mine have Apex triggers.

SKU 13353 that TCinVA used is available from a few non-tax dealers, plus S&W has a $75 rebate at the moment which covers this model. I installed a thumb safety in my M&P45 so that part is easy and parts are available. I’m tempted to try one with the forward set trigger since I’d be wanting to make the trigger as 1911ish as possible. And I’m already an ACRO fanboy.

Question - do the Dawson sights that are listed as being CORE only also work on these direct mill pistols? I’m a literalist, so…

Tempted, very tempted…

[coN]

TBH, the Apex barrel is not really that necessary on a 2.0 model.
Every 2.0 I've owned (I have over a half dozen) is capable of 2-3 inches at 25 yards offhand easily equal to or exceeding a Gen5 Glock.

The 1.0 is another story, I would honestly just save the effort and stick with the stock barrel unless it's just not performing.
Most of the suggestions from people online about needing an APEX are carry over from the 1.0 days.
I am inclined to agree but with one asterisk... The 1st gen 2.0 4.25" improved groups @ 25 yards to around 3 - 4 inch groups from random 5 - 6 inches with the 1.0.

The 2nd gen 2.0 4.25" now exhibit 2 - 3 inch groups @ 25 yards so yeah I agree the Apex barrel is no longer needed. Now if you want to squeeze maximum accuracy & precision out of the platform, then an Apex gunsmith barrel will do that for ya. Sub 1 inch groups @ 25 yards? Yes please.

The way you can tell which 2.0 gen you have is with the front serrations on the slide: if they extend from the bottom of the slide to the top up front, you have a 2nd gen.

[45dotACP]

TBH, the Apex barrel is not really that necessary on a 2.0 model.
Every 2.0 I've owned (I have over a half dozen) is capable of 2-3 inches at 25 yards offhand easily equal to or exceeding a Gen5 Glock.

The 1.0 is another story, I would honestly just save the effort and stick with the stock barrel unless it's just not performing.
Most of the suggestions from people online about needing an APEX are carry over from the 1.0 days.Usually, I'd disagree, but I've found the 2.0 barrels can be perfectly fine with ammo they like. I've got a set of comparison targets somewhere with my 2.0 and it basically boils down to the Apex producing more consistent accuracy and POI than the stock barrel across different ammunition types, but if the stock barrel "likes" a particular ammo, it won't be all that different.


I'll post the photos when I get a chance with the caveat that I'm not so good a marksman as to regularly get sub 2" accuracy at 25 yards, but I can tell when a gun "feels" more accurate if that makes sense.

Adding something like a FSS and flat trigger might help me get a more complete picture of what my 2.0 can do, but I plan on carrying it and prefer carrying a stock trigger system.

Maybe the next one will be fully hot rodded.




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[TCinVA]

Sub 1 inch groups @ 25 yards? Yes please.

Just this past weekend I was shooting a 25 yard group doing a demo in Performance Pistol and I shot about a 1.5" group calling flyers. I thought I would have been barely in the black but it was an exceptional group, just a little off point of aim because I haven't had time to do a proper rezero since I got my Acro back from Aimpoint.

Having a pistol that accurate is lovely.

[awp_101]

Although I realize it kind of goes against the original Stack-A-Toe concept, has anyone done this with an M&P 45 yet? I’ve had one of those on the brain lately.

[mmc45414]

Having a pistol that accurate is lovely.
My take on the Apex barrel is that I might not need it and it might not do me any good, but if I am sticking a $500-$600 Optic on something imma gonna put the $200 barrel under it.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

Although I realize it kind of goes against the original Stack-A-Toe concept, has anyone done this with an M&P 45 yet? I’ve had one of those on the brain lately.I will say that I loved the two M&P 45s I had, I only sold them in a consolidation effort to fund other shenanigans.

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[revchuck38]

Although I realize it kind of goes against the original Stack-A-Toe concept, has anyone done this with an M&P 45 yet? I’ve had one of those on the brain lately.

Go ahead and get the M&P45. Even if you don’t do the mods, you’ll find it’s one of the most accurate polymer guns out there.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Anyone done Tim’s prescription here but used a 2.0 barrel in a 1.0 gun? I see them on brownells…

And I’ve had good luck with every 2.0 barrel I have.


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[G19Fan]

Although I realize it kind of goes against the original Stack-A-Toe concept, has anyone done this with an M&P 45 yet? I’ve had one of those on the brain lately.

Probably my favorite 45

I just purchased a les baer from a friend and imagine it is incredible but the mp45 is for now my favorite 45 ever

[sickeness]

My take on the Apex barrel is that I might not need it and it might not do me any good, but if I am sticking a $500-$600 Optic on something imma gonna put the $200 barrel under it.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I wouldn't say this is necessarily true.

Lots of people mount SROs on Gen 5 Glocks, CZs and Sigs without changing barrels, in fact it is pretty rare in my experience to see someone with an aftermarket Glock barrel unless it's on a full custom build.
People feel compelled to buy APEX for all their M&Ps just because that has been the prevailing wisdom since the 1.0 platform was released, I'm just trying to help others save money by saying it's not needed.

[HeavyDuty]

Question - do the Dawson sights that are listed as being CORE only also work on these direct mill pistols like SKU 13353? I’m a literalist and don’t know if the direct mill pistols are considered to be CORE, so…

[mmc45414]

TBH, the Apex barrel is not really that necessary on a 2.0 model.
Every 2.0 I've owned (I have over a half dozen) is capable of 2-3 inches at 25 yards offhand easily equal to or exceeding a Gen5 Glock.

My take on the Apex barrel is that I might not need it and it might not do me any good, but if I am sticking a $500-$600 Optic on something imma gonna put the $200 barrel under it.

I wouldn't say this is necessarily true.

Lots of people mount SROs on Gen 5 Glocks, CZs and Sigs without changing barrels, in fact it is pretty rare in my experience to see someone with an aftermarket Glock barrel unless it's on a full custom build.
People feel compelled to buy APEX for all their M&Ps just because that has been the prevailing wisdom since the 1.0 platform was released, I'm just trying to help others save money by saying it's not needed.

Yes, I agree, my post probably sounded like I was disagreeing but didn't convey what I meant.

For the last 5-10yrs I have been tending to get a pistol and shoot it almost exclusively every weekend (but this will change, we just lost access to our private range after fifty years... :mad: ) until I transition to the next thing.
In this sequence I have had three 5" 2.0s. I started with one that I left completely factory except for Dawson Sights. I had been shooting a 9mm 1911 and had been advancing (probably because I started shooting the same pistol every week) and wanted to see if my performance was a result of shooting the easiest pistol in the history of the world, or if I was just getting better. So I shot the stock gun for a couple years, and I didn't shoot much for groups (mostly steel on a timer), but it shot plenty well. Well enough that I decided I wanted one with the Apex trigger, and decided to start with a fresh pistol, and then decided WTH, get the barrel too. With my old eyes the barrel probably didn't do anything really productive for me. When I decided to try a RDO I did a twin of my pistol and had it direct milled for an SRO. With the SRO I can do things I could have never done without it, but the stock barrel is probably still not a weak link. But.... after buying the $500 gun and $100 trigger and the $500 optic and the $125 direct mill job, I figure WTH, I am going for the barrel also.

One of my friends does F-class rifle shooting at a pretty high level, and he had a pretty good analogy regarding constantly pursuing accuracy. In his case the 1000yd target has a 5" (1/2-MOA) X-ring and a 10" (1-MOA) 10-ring. He aspires to have a 1/4-MOA or better rifle/ammo combination on the premise that the shot might not always be perfect, and the wind call might not always be perfect, so if his rifle is twice as accurate as it needs to be he has a little better chance of keeping one in the X-ring, and a little less chance of leaking one out into the 9-ring. This is kinda how I feel about my Apex barrel, more accuracy is better. But my stock 2.0 gun was a fine piece of equipment and if I needed to I would not hesitate to go back to it.

[Steve m]

Just got my apex barrel fitted, if it stops raining I’ll hit the range and test my practice ammo (124 grn federal fmj) and run 50 rds of carry thru it. (124 federal hst).
I will probably leave the stock trigger in it for now.
More to follow

[TCinVA]

Just got my apex barrel fitted, if it stops raining I’ll hit the range and test my practice ammo (124 grn federal fmj) and run 50 rds of carry thru it. (124 federal hst).
I will probably leave the stock trigger in it for now.
More to follow

Depending on how you fit the barrel, I'd put at least 100-200 rounds of cheap ammo through it before I function checked with carry ammo. That should be plenty to get it settled in so you're getting an accurate picture of how it will perform long term.

[45dotACP]

As a comparison of the two barrels, I fired a series of groups at 20 yards. Targets on the left side of the paper were 115 gr fiocchi (except the very bottom left which was some HST I wanted to check POI with) and right side were magtech 115gr.

Never been great at shooting from bags so this is offhand.

The magtech seemed less accurate in the factory barrel and had some change in POI up and to the right, but the fiocchi didn't seem to mind either way.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240724/0f45467a99864fa54289b751b8755970.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240724/082a884865d73f944307378014c3b33a.jpg

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Steve m]

Depending on how you fit the barrel, I'd put at least 100-200 rounds of cheap ammo through it before I function checked with carry ammo. That should be plenty to get it settled in so you're getting an accurate picture of how it will perform long term.

I fit it on the tight side, thanks for the “cheap ammo” tip.

This pistol is starting to grow on me. Very natural point of aim for me.

[HeavyDuty]

Dammit. I didn’t realize how much of an improvement 2.0s seem to be over 1.0s, which is/was all I had. This is gonna be fun.

121451

[BobM]

I was in a store today that is also a LE dealer for the major brands. They had 4.25” slides for LE purchase, including individual officers, that were cut for ACROs, another for a Holosun. I would have bought an ACRO for one of my 4” pistols, or for a 40 cal if available.

[Brianjkeene]

I was in a store today that is also a LE dealer for the major brands. They had 4.25” slides for LE purchase, including individual officers, that were cut for ACROs, another for a Holosun. I would have bought an ACRO for one of my 4” pistols, or for a 40 cal if available.

Mind sharing the store? I’d like to pick up a 509t slide if they have them

[45dotACP]

Fired with cheap ammo at 20 yards. S&B 115grhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240725/5c9f23b164b34585426d95abee64e559.jpg

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[BobM]

Mind sharing the store? I’d like to pick up a 509t slide if they have them

It was Vance’s in central Ohio. Online at https://www.vanceoutdoors.com/products2.cfm/ID/304249

[HeavyDuty]

I can’t button mine up yet - I forgot to order an Apex tool steel extractor, so I will still need to pull the ACRO to install that when it gets here. The forward set trigger and RAM made a huge difference, the stock trigger was pretty bad. The barrel took about a half hour of work to fit, I’d like to shoot it for groups against the factory one.

Question: I’m surprised to see nobody offers wider thumb safety levers. Has anyone seen them?

[HeavyDuty]

There has been discussion about how the forward set trigger reduces pretravel. This is how mine works, I suspect it could be tuned to remove more pretravel but I think it’s just about perfect right now.

1. Trigger at rest:
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2. Trigger at break point after takeup:
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3. Trigger full to rear. I have minimal overtravel:
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[sickeness]

There has been discussion about how the forward set trigger reduces pretravel. This is how mine works, I suspect it could be tuned to remove more pretravel but I think it’s just about perfect right now.

1. Trigger at rest:
121493

2. Trigger at break point after takeup:
121494

3. Trigger full to rear. I have minimal overtravel:
121495

Just purely out of curiosity. Can you pull your striker and see if there is any peening on the part of the striker where it contacts the FP block? I stopped using APEX triggers years ago because I found peening on all my guns that had them. The striker block was hitting the pin due to the timing changes caused by the new springs which was also leading to light primer hits.

[HeavyDuty]

Just purely out of curiosity. Can you pull your striker and see if there is any peening on the part of the striker where it contacts the FP block? I stopped using APEX triggers years ago because I found peening on all my guns that had them. The striker block was hitting the pin due to the timing changes caused by the new springs which was also leading to light primer hits.

After I get enough rounds downrange, I will - it’s still unfired.

[coN]

Just purely out of curiosity. Can you pull your striker and see if there is any peening on the part of the striker where it contacts the FP block? I stopped using APEX triggers years ago because I found peening on all my guns that had them. The striker block was hitting the pin due to the timing changes caused by the new springs which was also leading to light primer hits.

I'm going to have to investigate this myself as I mentioned this during the last range outing with my Apex'd M&P 2.0.

Sidenote, I started getting light primer strikes on the M&P as the trip wore on...

Im approaching a 5-figure round count and was actually going to test with ammo with softer primers then switch back to see if it was a primer issue but now, I'm gonna check the FP.

[HeavyDuty]

sickeness, was the peening on the striker or FPB? Or both?

I consider both of these parts to be consumables with a reasonable life expectancy. If I need to replace them (say) every 10k, I’m fine with that. Every 1k not so much.

[sickeness]

sickeness, was the peening on the striker or FPB? Or both?

I consider both of these parts to be consumables with a reasonable life expectancy. If I need to replace them (say) every 10k, I’m fine with that. Every 1k not so much.

Striker.

I had about 4-5 APEX trigger kits at the time and found that all of the strikers had peening near the leg. It still has enough power to ignite most primers I didn't notice until I started buying hard foreign primers during covid and having 1/10 light strikes. I traced the problem back to my APEX triggers and pulled all of them and the problems went away. I believe that the APEX system is flawed by design. The timing window on the M&P is small enough that slight changes in spring pressure and release angles will cause problems with reliability of the striker block.

[Hot Cereal]

The "tactical" world has rediscovered the B8. It's kind of funny to me because I 'member back when I was getting into training hearing so many people dismiss the idea of shooting at bullseye targets as outdated nonsense that didn't reflect the realities of combat and I distinctly remember thinking "Weren't a whole bunch of old school gunfighters excellent bullseye competitors with handguns?" But I wasn't the expert, so...you know. It's been amusing watching things evolve to the point where now B8 accuracy at 25 yards is moving past being a flex to being seen as some sort of baseline requirement for carrying a defensive handgun.

The dot has contributed to this phenomenon significantly. Some people love the dot because they can't really see irons very well. Some people love the dot because they love any new thing that comes down the pike. But I find that lots of people love the dot primarily because it's the only real coach they've ever had. The dot sits on top of the slide screaming at you and allowing a lot of people to actually call shots or see that they're doing something nasty to the gun during the shot process that they didn't see with irons because irons whisper while the dot screams.

I am super late to this topic, but the blackjack and hookers part caught my attention. I think most “gun trainers” are nothing more than dogmatic verbal diarrhea soup regurgitating talking heads constantly saying “this is now the way”. They’re in the business of staying relevant so in the era of social media that’s creating some new and improved tactical neuralpathway plasticity training method to sell through an Instagram post. Most can’t really shoot worth a shit (before anyone jumps in with an ‘I know this one guy who’s so good’…it’s tongue and cheek broskis, but you know the people I’m talking about…) so punching a B8 was never on the table. But, now that RDS “is the way”, and they can punch a B8, that also now is the way, again…

You could breakdown the nonsense in the firearms training and equipment industry to be the same cycle as an 18 year olds Porn Hub search history through the course of his time in HS… I wonder when midgets will come back around…

[HeavyDuty]

Striker.

I had about 4-5 APEX trigger kits at the time and found that all of the strikers had peening near the leg. It still has enough power to ignite most primers I didn't notice until I started buying hard foreign primers during covid and having 1/10 light strikes. I traced the problem back to my APEX triggers and pulled all of them and the problems went away. I believe that the APEX system is flawed by design. The timing window on the M&P is small enough that slight changes in spring pressure and release angles will cause problems with reliability of the striker block.

That’s definitely an issue. I wonder how widespread this is? The fact that you had multiples with the same issue is concerning. What was the round count like?

Putting it to the floor. Have other people seen this?

[Spartan1980]

sickeness does this peening occur if you leave all the factory springs in it? I have a really low round count APEX setup and now am wondering.

[HeavyDuty]

Now I need to unbox my old M&Ps and look.

[TCinVA]

I'm currently in a class, but I'll try to break my guns down when I get back home and take a look at the strikers. I've had a number of Apex'd M&P's apart without seeing any notable issues on the fire control parts. I've asked a couple of other folks about it who have been putting Apex parts in M&P's for a decade or more, and none of them have noted it either.

[Steve m]

315 rds since fitting apex barrel. Total rd count 560
Observations so far:
- factory trigger is great measured on my lymand gauge, consistent 5kbs. Perfect for me.
- general shoot ability is outstanding for me. I can consistently keep 10
Rds in A zone as fast as I can confirm dot.
- the ability to “call” shots with this pistol is much much better than my Glock.
- not as fast on draw, but im sure that will come.
- recoil seems tad lighter than my g19 “my opinion”.
- overall to me this seems more shoot able than my Glocks, I am finding I have to work less for better scores.
- no issues with apex fitted barrel


I am liking this pistol alot, wondering if I can get away with concealing a full size.

More to follow

[ECVMatt]

Alright guys....I have been looking at this thread for almost two years now. I get the Stack-A-Toe, but can not figure out the blackjack and hookers.

Can someone help a slow guy?

Thanks,

Matt

[Brian T]

Alright guys....I have been looking at this thread for almost two years now. I get the Stack-A-Toe, but can not figure out the blackjack and hookers.

Can someone help a slow guy?

Thanks,

Matt

They are things we like!

Or....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-94qrgxH35M

[coN]

I plan to check my striker/FP on Tuesday to check for peening. While scouring the web to check if anyone has experienced the same issue (im seeing alot of instances at the Enos forum) I saw this and apparently it fixes the issue. Can anyone confirm?

https://www.edbrown.com/product/mp-esb-plunger/

[HeavyDuty]

Does anyone have a good relationship with Apex that can ask about this? Given their reputation, I would be surprised if they don’t have an opinion about it.

Edit - Apex claims on their website that their replacement striker block differs from stock. Can we confirm the peening is being seen with the Apex USB and that it’s not people using the factory one?

[crosseyedshooter]

Could we please specify which Apex trigger is being talked about in regards to the striker block peening? The forward set triggers definitely change the timing of the striker block and sear release but I was under the impression that the Duty/Carry trigger doesn’t change timing significantly. You can feel the striker block being pressed during the pretravel with the Duty/Carry trigger.

[HeavyDuty]

I just did a simple diagnostic I saw mentioned somewhere (Enos?) by “pencil testing” with and without the striker block installed. No difference in pencil movement. I have the polymer forward set kit in mine.

Then I pulled my striker. This is still unfired but with about 100 dryfire reps. How does it compare to a new one?

121625

[coN]

Could we please specify which Apex trigger is being talked about in regards to the striker block peening? The forward set triggers definitely change the timing of the striker block and sear release but I was under the impression that the Duty/Carry trigger doesn’t change timing significantly. You can feel the striker block being pressed during the pretravel with the Duty/Carry trigger.
I *think* were all referring to the FSS+flat trigger.

[HeavyDuty]

Continuing with my tradition of trying to illustrate technical things with really bad phone pictures here is mine with trigger untouched, at sear contact and released. Given the size of the bearing surface of the FPB I can’t imagine it’s not getting fully retracted. Apologies for the size of the photos, I don’t have a good way of resizing them:

121627

121628

121629

[coN]

At the Enos forums, the issue was coming into play because back when S&W used the shepherds crook to cam the sear in the 1.0 models, if the loop wasn't opened enough it changed the timing. The solution was to open the loop bit.

Since the 2.0s no longer use the shepherds crook it's speculated if it is or isn't the same issue. I did the same thing you did (i.e. viewing the trigger bar from the slide/frame slit) and figured there's no way that the FPB isn't being fully depressed, but we'll find out as soon as I pull my FP.

[TCinVA]

So, I present a test. Two of these strikers have been in guns with an Apex striker block. One has not. If you can tell which one was just interacting with the factory striker block, sound off:

121640 121641121642121643121644121645121646

[MVS]

Does anyone prefer Overwatch Precision to Apex for the trigger?

[Lunker]

Does anyone prefer Overwatch Precision to Apex for the trigger?

Yes. I put the Falx on my gen 5 Glock 34 and M&P9 2.0 Peanut Butter 5”. I would say it is more of an improvement on the M&P than on the Glock. With the Glock, you just get a trigger and trigger bar. On the M&P, you get trigger, trigger bar, duty or competition sear, and multiple sear Springs to choose from.
I don’t care for the break point of the forward set trigger from Apex. It just feels strange to me. And I prefer the wide curved metal shoe offered on the overwatch..

[sickeness]

So, I present a test. Two of these strikers have been in guns with an Apex striker block. One has not. If you can tell which one was just interacting with the factory striker block, sound off:



This one is the apex, you can tell it is peened on the area I circled. Mine that had the apex FSS all had this.

[HeavyDuty]

This one is the apex, you can tell it is peened on the area I circled. Mine that had the apex FSS all had this.

TCinVA, you’re not using the FSS - right?

[TCinVA]

@TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4), you’re not using the FSS - right?

Correct. I'm not.

[TCinVA]

This one is the apex, you can tell it is peened on the area I circled. Mine that had the apex FSS all had this.

Unfortunately, no. That's the striker from the gun that isn't using the Apex striker block.

[HeavyDuty]

Correct. I'm not.

So any peening (phrasing) you’re seeing would be unrelated to Apex FSS timing changes. I’d love to see what a bunch of high mileage totally stock M&P strikers look like.

[TCinVA]

So any peening (phrasing) you’re seeing would be unrelated to Apex FSS timing changes. I’d love to see what a bunch of high mileage totally stock M&P strikers look like.

Right. That gun has the Apex sear, sear spring, and trigger return spring and that's it. I don't like the forward set trigger so I've never installed that in any of my pistols. It has the factory trigger shoe, striker block and striker block spring. It has those primarily because when I got the gun I found out the plate at the top that holds the striker block has a buggered screw head so it wouldn't come loose to allow replacing the striker block and striker block spring. Consequently it has a slightly worse trigger.

Peening as previously described is likely a thing you can find in some form or fashion from a number of factory M&P's if you broke them down to inspect them carefully...but I couldn't give a guesstimate as I haven't looked at a lot of high round count strikers to say.

It's something I hadn't heard of before so I think it's absolutely worthwhile to incorporate regular inspection of your striker to ensure it's not having any functional issues. I certainly plan to keep an eye on it going forward.

Incidentally, the striker assembly is something I keep on hand and would replace ~ 10,000 rounds anyway as a preventative maintenance thing anyway. I replaced the strikers on my Glocks at about that round count just to be safe.

FWIW, my buddy ARay has tens of thousands of rounds through multiple Apex M&P's with the full package and has never had any fire control reliability issues with them.

[coN]

Image dump incoming...

M&P 2.0 w/ Apex FSS kit and flat-faced trigger. 9550'ish rounds (don't have log on me ATM)
https://i.ibb.co/9TDJx6x/1722371638900.jpg (https://ibb.co/jMNdCmC)
https://i.ibb.co/wst0nHM/1722371641450.jpg (https://ibb.co/JQZBYL5)
https://i.ibb.co/vZC8Dkj/1722371643706.jpg (https://ibb.co/Yp4GbhL)
https://i.ibb.co/3hPryVL/1722371646930.jpg (https://ibb.co/NYGV6fH)
https://i.ibb.co/G9H3ZVX/1722371636455.jpg (https://ibb.co/jzJZCLd)

------------------------------

M&P 2.0 Metal with Overwatch Precision trigger - 1700'ish rounds
https://i.ibb.co/92zwxRY/1722372536255.jpg (https://ibb.co/GkBsZgP)
https://i.ibb.co/yQR9Ddn/1722372531182.jpg (https://ibb.co/bK30xQg)
https://i.ibb.co/f1Nr4vG/1722372528615.jpg (https://ibb.co/ng1QzC8)
https://i.ibb.co/qp7wtJ5/1722372525665.jpg (https://ibb.co/zZQwy6J)
https://i.ibb.co/Htt5ppB/1722372520927.jpg (https://ibb.co/sKK8JJb)

So my amateur assessment? Looking at the side profile of both firing pins to look at the portion that interfaces with the FPB, you can see there's some metal that hangs over the edge as if it were peened, but both of them have this. The higher round count unit has a miniscule bit more but running my fingernail under it feels the same.

Now the higher round count FP looks like in the pics that it has peening but to my eyes in person, it looks more like erosion. Again, the side profile still looks the same (the ramped portion that interacts with the FPB) on both items.

The only thing the lower round count FP didn't have was the shiny area where the "erosion" is getting the higher round count. In summation, I personally don't see much difference between the two but remember, it's from my eyes and sans a caliper.

I guess it's back to assuming my firing issue was hard primers. Gonna have to test....

[MVS]

Yes. I put the Falx on my gen 5 Glock 34 and M&P9 2.0 Peanut Butter 5”. I would say it is more of an improvement on the M&P than on the Glock. With the Glock, you just get a trigger and trigger bar. On the M&P, you get trigger, trigger bar, duty or competition sear, and multiple sear Springs to choose from.
I don’t care for the break point of the forward set trigger from Apex. It just feels strange to me. And I prefer the wide curved metal shoe offered on the overwatch..

Thanks, I really like the one I put in my Walther Q5, but wasn't sure if that would translate over to the M&P.

[HeavyDuty]

I got the new M&P to the range today, and managed to put 50 rounds of Lawman 124 plus 50 more of I can’t remember what 124 bulk range stuff I bought a while back. It ran great, and seems quite accurate. It wasn’t a good day for my tremor but it feels like it will be an easy 2” at 50’ gun in the right hands and probably better.

I really like the FSS, and although the safety lever is on the narrow side I was able to ride it without issue.

[HeavyDuty]

Wow - my S&W rebate arrived in less than a week.

[awp_101]

The "
I installed the Apex Action Enhancement Duty kit in this pistol. I bought the cheapest one with the polymer trigger...

So it looks like Apex has changed their offerings since the original post. Looking at the page of triggers and kits (https://www.apextactical.com/smith-wesson?caliber=5454&cat=159&product_list_limit=36) the Duty kit no longer comes with a trigger but the regular Action Enhancement Kit does come with the curved trigger, which is my preference over a flat trigger anyway.

Is there any meaningful difference between the two for a non-duty, probably non-carry pistol?

[TCinVA]

So it looks like Apex has changed their offerings since the original post. Looking at the page of triggers and kits (https://www.apextactical.com/smith-wesson?caliber=5454&cat=159&product_list_limit=36) the Duty kit no longer comes with a trigger but the regular Action Enhancement Kit does come with the curved trigger, which is my preference over a flat trigger anyway.

Is there any meaningful difference between the two for a non-duty, probably non-carry pistol?

I would imagine that since S&W released the updated flat-ish trigger on the M&P 2.0 they didn't see as many people wanting to swap it out. I have the stock trigger shoe on my training gun (identical to the gun in the first post save for the trigger shoe) and I don't mind it at all.

Is there a meaningful difference between the Apex flat-faced and curved triggers?

As far as I can tell from looking at the site, you can only get the flat-faced trigger as a forward set trigger. The forward set trigger dramatically decreases takeup in the trigger, which I don't want on my guns. I like having the pre-travel in the trigger as the length of the trigger is more important than the weight of it in helping recognize that you may be doing something on the trigger you don't want to. Or at least that's what Todd told me a huge federal agency with lots of research concluded some years ago before they started issuing short-travel trigger pistols. So that would be a huge difference. Putting in a forward set trigger tilts you more toward a 1911 type trigger than a Glock type trigger on the M&P. I want the trigger to have the amount of travel as the stock trigger, minus maybe a little overtravel. I'm all for the pre-travel in the trigger. Some people don't want that pre-travel and the forward set trigger is for them.

Just as a side note, I find that I'm a LOT more likely to send a round I don't want to send when there's no pre-travel on striker-fired guns and hammer fired guns where the SA trigger has had the pre-travel removed, but not on the 1911. For some reason my brain understands on a subconscious level to treat that trigger differently.

In terms of just the trigger shoes, that would be personal preference determined by how your hand gets on the gun. A flat-faced trigger can actually contribute to the gun pushing to the support side in the last instant if the harder corner of the trigger interacts with your finger in a sub-optimal way.

I have never found the curved triggers to give me any issues, so I just run them. Between my training gun's flat-ish stock trigger shoe and the Apex curved trigger shoe, I have found that the carry gun is a little easier to shoot precisely when I'm going for max score on a bullseye course. The curved trigger just seems to settle in a hair better for my fingers.

YMMV.

[awp_101]

Sorry TCinVA, I worded the question poorly.

Other than one comes with a trigger shoe and the other doesn’t, is there a meaningful difference between the regular Action Enhancement kit and the Duty version?

[TCinVA]

Sorry @TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4), I worded the question poorly.

Other than one comes with a trigger shoe and the other doesn’t, is there a meaningful difference between the regular Action Enhancement kit and the Duty version?

From looking at the descriptions the only difference I see is the claimed reduction in overtravel promised in the kit with the trigger shoe.

I'd suggest calling Apex up...they're very willing to answer questions...and asking since they've changed the M&P products a few times since I was certified as an installer. I don't have the latest info on what they're going for with the revisions.

[awp_101]

Thanks, I’ll have to make time to do that soon™️

[Cacafuego]

I'm late to this party, but I've been shooting and carrying M&Ps for well over a decade, and I like the concept. Here's the early stage of my entry:


122077

:cool:

[Spartan1980]

I would imagine that since S&W released the updated flat-ish trigger on the M&P 2.0 they didn't see as many people wanting to swap it out. I have the stock trigger shoe on my training gun (identical to the gun in the first post save for the trigger shoe) and I don't mind it at all.

Is there a meaningful difference between the Apex flat-faced and curved triggers?

As far as I can tell from looking at the site, you can only get the flat-faced trigger as a forward set trigger. The forward set trigger dramatically decreases takeup in the trigger, which I don't want on my guns. I like having the pre-travel in the trigger as the length of the trigger is more important than the weight of it in helping recognize that you may be doing something on the trigger you don't want to. Or at least that's what Todd told me a huge federal agency with lots of research concluded some years ago before they started issuing short-travel trigger pistols. So that would be a huge difference. Putting in a forward set trigger tilts you more toward a 1911 type trigger than a Glock type trigger on the M&P. I want the trigger to have the amount of travel as the stock trigger, minus maybe a little overtravel. I'm all for the pre-travel in the trigger. Some people don't want that pre-travel and the forward set trigger is for them.

Just as a side note, I find that I'm a LOT more likely to send a round I don't want to send when there's no pre-travel on striker-fired guns and hammer fired guns where the SA trigger has had the pre-travel removed, but not on the 1911. For some reason my brain understands on a subconscious level to treat that trigger differently.

In terms of just the trigger shoes, that would be personal preference determined by how your hand gets on the gun. A flat-faced trigger can actually contribute to the gun pushing to the support side in the last instant if the harder corner of the trigger interacts with your finger in a sub-optimal way.

I have never found the curved triggers to give me any issues, so I just run them. Between my training gun's flat-ish stock trigger shoe and the Apex curved trigger shoe, I have found that the carry gun is a little easier to shoot precisely when I'm going for max score on a bullseye course. The curved trigger just seems to settle in a hair better for my fingers.

YMMV.

Same here. All of my 1.0 M&Ps were worked over by a smith using all the factory parts. The original curved triggers never really bothered me after being tuned, but prior to that the tuning it wouldn't have mattered whether they were curved or flat, they would've still sucked.

On my lone 2.0, I tried out the new flat trigger from S&W and while it was an improvement I didn't feel it was enough. Since my local M&P smith took down his shingle I bought the curved trigger model at a slight discount an immediately installed the Apex curved FST since it was closer to what I'm familiar with and I am very satisfied with it.

[Brian T]

I'm late to this party, but I've been shooting and carrying M&Ps for well over a decade, and I like the concept. Here's the early stage of my entry:


122077

:cool:

Working on doing that myself

[awp_101]

I'm late to this party, but I've been shooting and carrying M&Ps for well over a decade, and I like the concept. Here's the early stage of my entry:


122077

:cool:

Wait...a Metal with a safety?

122088

[HeavyDuty]

Wait...a Metal with a safety?

Yeah, that made me look twice too.

[Cacafuego]

[QUOTE=awp_101;1602714]Wait...a Metal with a safety?

122088[/QUOTE

I know a skilled gunsmith. It was a little more work that we thought it would be - in addition to the slots in the frame for the lever, he had to mill a little out on the right side to clear the bit of the lever that actually blocks the trigger bar. If anyone's interested I can disassemble the thing and post pics in a couple days.

This is the most "custom" gun I've ever owned :o

[HeavyDuty]

[QUOTE=awp_101;1602714]Wait...a Metal with a safety?

122088[/QUOTE

I know a skilled gunsmith. It was a little more work that we thought it would be - in addition to the slots in the frame for the lever, he had to mill a little out on the right side to clear the bit of the lever that actually blocks the trigger bar. If anyone's interested I can disassemble the thing and post pics in a couple days.

This is the most "custom" gun I've ever owned :o

Very nice - it reminds me about how I had to have a P320 AXG grip module milled for a safety lever, but more complex.

[maximus83]

I got the new M&P to the range today, and managed to put 50 rounds of Lawman 124 plus 50 more of I can’t remember what 124 bulk range stuff I bought a while back. It ran great, and seems quite accurate. It wasn’t a good day for my tremor but it feels like it will be an easy 2” at 50’ gun in the right hands and probably better.

I really like the FSS, and although the safety lever is on the narrow side I was able to ride it without issue.

How do you compare this setup to your Staccato C, in the sense of how well you shoot with it?

[HeavyDuty]

How do you compare this setup to your Staccato C, in the sense of how well you shoot with it?

For me, they aren’t even in the same universe. Right now I shoot the Staccato much better; I’ll wait and see how I do with the M&P after I break it in and get used to it.

The C is like the amazing self shooting pistol.

[MVS]

A guy in class this weekend had an M&P with an Apex fitted barrel and Overwatch trigger. He ended up having multiple problems with rounds sticking in the chamber and locking the gun up when he switched to LAX ammo. He had to borrow and then buy some Fiocchi from another student to finish the class.

[G19Fan]

A guy in class this weekend had an M&P with an Apex fitted barrel and Overwatch trigger. He ended up having multiple problems with rounds sticking in the chamber and locking the gun up when he switched to LAX ammo. He had to borrow and then buy some Fiocchi from another student to finish the class.

I wanna bet that is probably lax ammo's fault

Used to shoot it, super inconsistent

[mmc45414]

A guy in class this weekend had an M&P with an Apex fitted barrel and Overwatch trigger. He ended up having multiple problems with rounds sticking in the chamber and locking the gun up when he switched to LAX ammo.

I wanna bet that is probably lax ammo's fault
When I got my first Apex barrel I had some concern, since I almost exclusively shoot my reloaded ammo. When I started down the Apex barrel path I maybe wasn't as conscientious about my practice ammo, since I was not shooting any matches. Now I shoot a couple multi-gun matches a month, and do not want any issues, even if it is just an embarrassment. Now I have an Armanov gage and never have any issues with my guns that have the Apex barrels. As has been mentioned, the 2.0 barrels are fine, but if there is a problem I would be looking at the ammo first.

ETA: The stuff that fails the gage gets stuffed into practice mags for the Shield Plus (factory barrel) and it always churns through all of it. Maybe someday I will try some it though one of my 2.0 M&Ps that still has the factory barrel, and maybe one of the Apex guns, just in the interest of science. :cool:

[TCinVA]

A guy in class this weekend had an M&P with an Apex fitted barrel and Overwatch trigger. He ended up having multiple problems with rounds sticking in the chamber and locking the gun up when he switched to LAX ammo. He had to borrow and then buy some Fiocchi from another student to finish the class.

The Apex barrels will be significantly more fussy about the OAL of the cartridges. I tried out some reloads from a competitor friend who runs blue bullets and got fairly consistent feed issues due to his reloads (tuned for his match guns) being a hair too long for my Apex equipped M&Ps.

[mmc45414]

The Apex barrels will be significantly more fussy about the OAL of the cartridges. I tried out some reloads from a competitor friend who runs blue bullets and got fairly consistent feed issues due to his reloads (tuned for his match guns) being a hair too long for my Apex equipped M&Ps.

Were there any factory barrel M&Ps handy that would run them? ETA: I think some of the CZ guys load pretty long...
I have shot a pretty good quantity (I do not do a good job of keeping track, but between 10k-15k, I think) of the 147gn flat point truncated cones, mostly through three 5" 2.0s, the first one had a factory barrel and the next two had Apex. I think I kinda just loaded them deep enough to fit the mags, and they have perked right along.

[TCinVA]

Were there any factory barrel M&Ps handy that would run them?

Factory barrel ran them just fine.

[GmanVP9]

Looking at an M&P. Was just linked to this thread. do you find the 4 to be any different than the 3.6?

[mmc45414]

Looking at an M&P. Was just linked to this thread. do you find the 4 to be any different than the 3.6?
I have the prior 1.0 3.6" 12rnd version that has always been fine.
If you plan to get a IWB holster, I would just go for the 4", though.

[Steve m]

M&p 2.0 compact, apex semi fit barrel stock trigger.

Have 1142 rds thru mine.
No malfunctions yet
Observations:
Pistol is a joy to shoot
Accuracy is way…. Better than i am
Easy to shoot well
5x5 drill is now almost a joke (consistently getting ~3.5 sec) from holster
The test averaging 97 from holster
Super test averaging293 from holster
Speed is not up to my Glocks….. yet. Working on that

Summary so far
Love the pistol, way it fits hand, shooting experience
Saving up to build another and have spare parts on hand


W\R
Steve

[TCinVA]

Yesterday teaching the JDC Red Dot class with my training gun I shot the dead center of a 6" hostage plate on a Red Stitch Pistol Hostage target (https://redstitchtargets.com/shop/p/pistol-hostage-target) at a measured (by laser and measuring wheel) 58 yards as a demo for students.

You don't need a pistol that shoots under an inch at 25 yards...but it's awful nice.

[TCinVA]

Looking at an M&P. Was just linked to this thread. do you find the 4 to be any different than the 3.6?

I have a 2.0 compact built up with most of the same specs save for the factory cut for the Acro. It performs pretty much the same as the full sized. It's not that much smaller than the full sized gun, but the slightly shorter grip and barrel do help it conceal a bit better. The Holosun on it does conceal slightly better than the mailbox Acro.

When the Acro on my training gun gave me problems and was out for repair, I used my compact to teach a pistol class and ran through all the usual exercises and demos without really noticing any difference.

[TCinVA]

And going back to TCinVA's original premise, this was about not having to go get the slide cut. It's about an out of the box solution.

...and I'll return to this key point because I have now collected a number of accounts from people trying to get a similar setup to what I'm running because they see that this concept works so well, only to find out that it's damn near impossible to do.

S&W seems to be dead set against selling factory Acro cut guns to anyone. Anywhere. For any reason. Badges or no, nobody can seem to find this SKU available.

Meanwhile all their M&Ps now come with the CORE cut and I don't know of anyone doing slide milling who will actually mill a CORE cut gun for an Acro. And it's a stone cold bitch to find a plate that you can use to mount an Acro (even though the use of plates sucks) without having to replace the sights which they also seem to crush-fit into the dovetails.

Dear Smith & Wesson:

For the love of all that is holy, stop making things so doggone difficult. Glock and Walther are both selling Acro cut packaged pistols to LE and to the general public. This is a clue.

[45dotACP]

Yesterday teaching the JDC Red Dot class with my training gun I shot the dead center of a 6" hostage plate on a Red Stitch Pistol Hostage target (https://redstitchtargets.com/shop/p/pistol-hostage-target) at a measured (by laser and measuring wheel) 58 yards as a demo for students.

You don't need a pistol that shoots under an inch at 25 yards...but it's awful nice.Its crazy how accurate these guns are with the apex barrel.

Just yesterday I tried a "chase the bullet hole" walk back and from 5-20 yards I hit one 9mm bullet hole with each shot at 5, 10, 15, and 20 yards. Further than that, I couldn't see the bullet hole so that was it.

And I KNOW the limiting factor behind how the gun shoots is me.

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