Does anyone own a Walther Model 9?

[JCN]

Any owners? Would love a picture next to a P32 or LCP.

Any impressions of shooting would be welcome as well.

[Polecat]

Smallest I have shot is a Bernadelli VP25, and my little airweight Baby Browning. They are great for what they are. I think less than 5 yards amd probably 3 is the sweet spot. I have been thinking about a Walther, but you first! I passed on one at a show recently and went back and it was gone, boxed like new 600.00!! Oh well.

I have been reading about some reloaders trying to push the .25 to 1000 fps. I think most are about 750 FPS. To me American Eagle feels more brisk than the others. I am gonna chrono a bunch of different brands when I get some time, as I am just curious. I think as a deep concealment gun is their niche. I have been playing with my mouse guns lately and they are just neat. I Finally have components and everything to start reloading them. I think a 50 gr FMJ at even a true 900, would penetrate more than 12”

JCN ya need to get one!

Dave

[JCN]

JCN ya need to get one!

Funny you should say that….

Got it for $469

91543

[john c]

Clue us in….what’s special about the Walther model 9?

Wikipedia basically trashes it by mentioning the striker springs take a set and the guns stop working if kept cocked.


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[Polecat]

Oh yeah can’t wait for the range report and pics!

[JCN]

Clue us in….what’s special about the Walther model 9?

Wikipedia basically trashes it by mentioning the striker springs take a set and the guns stop working if kept cocked.


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It’s one of the tiniest semis in existence.

And I like dumb things.

[john c]

It’s one of the tiniest semis in existence.

And I like dumb things.

No judgment here, I was just wondering if there was some secret awesome sauce that I was missing. Plus, Walter made 200,000 of them; they can’t be THAT bad.

I’m interested in seeing the range reports.


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[JCN]

No judgment here, I was just wondering if there was some secret awesome sauce that I was missing. Plus, Walter made 200,000 of them; they can’t be THAT bad.

I’m interested in seeing the range reports.


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I’m pretty surprised that nobody has one (or at least admits to having one).

Should be here next week.

[Polecat]

That is cool! I love these tiny ones, as I think these are where the .25 fits in. If you go bigger like Beretta, Taurus you are really getting into
.380 territory. I wonder if it will fit in a Jeans fifth pocket?

These remind me of my Grandad, I went with him one morning back in the 70’s to a hardware store, and bought a little RG, brought it home cleaned it, loaded it with FMJ and made a defacto holster from folded handkerchief. We would go up to the mall and sit with the guys, all of whom where armed in some way shape or form. Just a really cool time thinking back on it.

[john c]

Apparently there are three distinct types/revisions of this pistol, plus rolling changes through the production run. Do you know what type your pistol is? Or at least what part of the serial range?

What are your expectations for this pistol? I know (and appreciate) your interest in weird stuff; I'm just curious as to what you envision for this pistol.

[JCN]

Apparently there are three distinct types/revisions of this pistol, plus rolling changes through the production run. Do you know what type your pistol is? Or at least what part of the serial range?

What are your expectations for this pistol? I know (and appreciate) your interest in weird stuff; I'm just curious as to what you envision for this pistol.

I think it’ll depend on how large it actually is and how it shoots.

I’ll probably going to run a test between that, the Taurus View, the P32AT and an NAA Pug.

Maybe it could be a pocket pistol instead of the Taurus View.

It’ll probably be horrible and sit in my safe.

I thought that about the View and wound up loving it though.

[Polecat]

I hope Taurus revisits the view. They need to optimize the grip a bit, straighten it, fill in behind the trigger guard, maybe texture it a bit, wide U notch rear, day glo, tritium front, in a realistic caliber for such a tiny gun. .32 mag would be perfect, .22LR and .22 WMR.

[john c]

I think it’ll depend on how large it actually is and how it shoots.

I’ll probably going to run a test between that, the Taurus View, the P32AT and an NAA Pug.

Maybe it could be a pocket pistol instead of the Taurus View.

It’ll probably be horrible and sit in my safe.

I thought that about the View and wound up loving it though.

I'm definitely interested to see how it performs, from a modern perspective. In the era of Toyota Camrys and Glock pistols, we have very different expectations of performance than than 100 years ago.

The one point about these older pistols is that it's likely not drop safe, so keep that in mind when you're playing with it. Again, modern expectations of performance.

With respect to Taurus revolvers, they either work or they don't. I'm not surprised that you got a good one that will give great service.

[JCN]

I'm definitely interested to see how it performs, from a modern perspective. In the era of Toyota Camrys and Glock pistols, we have very different expectations of performance than than 100 years ago.

The one point about these older pistols is that it's likely not drop safe, so keep that in mind when you're playing with it. Again, modern expectations of performance.

With respect to Taurus revolvers, they either work or they don't. I'm not surprised that you got a good one that will give great service.

That’s a good point re: drop safety. There is a manual safety too, but I might have to break out the rubber mallet to see if I can simulate drop testing.

[BillSWPA]

According to this source, the safety blocks the striker, which could help as long as it does not accidentally get moved off safe.

https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/WMod9/wmod9.html

Unfortunately that is of no help if the safety is off safe when it is dropped.


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[john c]

Wild speculation, but one issue with striker-block safeties is when the sear gets knocked off the striker, the gun can fire when the safety is deactivated. Just a potential failure mode to test out before serious use.


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[JCN]

Hahahaha!


91731

[JCN]

I was not prepared for how tiny this thing is. It’s a giggle factory and really well made mechanically.

Compared to a 1” NAA PUG.

91734

But 6+1 of 25 ACP rather than 5 single action 22WMR/LR.

And here compared to a KelTec P32AT…

91735

The trigger is really quite nice and crisp.

91736

[JCN]

Had a couple aftermarket mags come in.

91738

The geometry wasn’t quite compatible with my version.

So I trimmed the foot and the top lips.

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[Elwin]

Wild speculation, but one issue with striker-block safeties is when the sear gets knocked off the striker, the gun can fire when the safety is deactivated. Just a potential failure mode to test out before serious use.


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Not a striker fired gun but I've had this happen shooting a Mauser C96, a friend's gun. Didn't realize the safety was on when I tried to fire it. Apparently the trigger press had still been able to move the sear enough that taking the safety off caused the hammer to fall and the gun to go bang. Bullet hit the berm but it was certainly exciting regardless.

[JCN]

How does that Walther carry/shoot?

It far exceeded my expectations.


https://youtu.be/YbmDaipBoJc

91851

Especially for this sight picture:

91852

Front sight has to be peeking up through the notch which makes it harder to be precise.


https://youtu.be/i3iLa3du3-Y

With 25 ACP, recoil management isn’t an issue and sub-20 splits are easy.

91853

It’s a 6+1 capacity in the size of a NAA Pug which is awesome.

91854

[MattyD380]

Nice! Seems like it runs and shoots well.

It kinda has a resemblance to the Baby Browning. Is that just superficial? Or are they mechanically similar/related? It looks like the Baby Browning was actually later (1927) than the model 9 (1921). But the BB was somewhat based on the Colt 1908... which was earlier that the model 9. So I dunno.

So...

If I wanted a teeny-weeny .25 (not saying I do--not saying I don't)... would this be a "better" option than a Baby Browning?

Then there's also the Beretta 950. And the CZ-45.

[john c]

Nice! Seems like it runs and shoots well.

It kinda has a resemblance to the Baby Browning. Is that just superficial? Or are they mechanically similar/related? It looks like the Baby Browning was actually later (1927) than the model 9 (1921). But the BB was somewhat based on the Colt 1908... which was earlier that the model 9. So I dunno.

So...

If I wanted a teeny-weeny .25 (not saying I do--not saying I don't)... would this be a "better" option than a Baby Browning?

Then there's also the Beretta 950. And the CZ-45.

Not the OP, but from reading about these:

1) the Baby Browning was created in direct response to this pistol, which was edging out the Browning 1906 .25 acp in sales. The BB took a lot of design cues from the Walther, so the designs are very similar.

2) the BB had a much longer production run, and is still made today by a company that bought the rights from FN. Parts and magazines are still available from the factory. Though a few millimeters bigger in some dimensions from the Walther, the BB is only 10 grams heavier (1/3 of an ounce). The current BB maker has had limited editions with alloy and titanium frames for lighter weight.

3) I don’t know about the Walther, but the BB has specific features related to drop safety. Basically the magazine safety also works as a drop safety.

4) take down of the BB is easier than the Walther due to the early browning twist barrel method of disassembly.

5) for ease of shooting, the BB has extended magazine floor plates that allow 3 support fingers on the gun.


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[MattyD380]

Not the OP, but from reading about these:

1) the Baby Browning was created in direct response to this pistol, which was edging out the Browning 1906 .25 acp in sales. The BB took a lot of design cues from the Walther, so the designs are very similar.

2) the BB had a much longer production run, and is still made today by a company that bought the rights from FN. Parts and magazines are still available from the factory. Though a few millimeters bigger in some dimensions from the Walther, the BB is only 10 grams heavier (1/3 of an ounce). The current BB maker has had limited editions with alloy and titanium frames for lighter weight.

3) I don’t know about the Walther, but the BB has specific features related to drop safety. Basically the magazine safety also works as a drop safety.

4) take down of the BB is easier than the Walther due to the early browning twist barrel method of disassembly.

5) for ease of shooting, the BB has extended magazine floor plates that allow 3 support fingers on the gun.


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Cool, thanks. Interesting.

I feel like FN must have taken some aesthetic cues from the Walther when they developed the BB. I kinda had assumed it was the other way around... just because the BB is so much more well known.

Apparently, you can buy a new production BB from Precision Small Arms, right from their website: https://www.precisionsmallarms.com/

[JCN]

Cool, thanks. Interesting.

I feel like FN must have taken some aesthetic cues from the Walther when they developed the BB. I kinda had assumed it was the other way around... just because the BB is so much more well known.

Apparently, you can buy a new production BB from Precision Small Arms, right from their website: https://www.precisionsmallarms.com/

Hey, thanks for that link.

I just ordered a featherweight BB from them.

It’s 7.8 ounces so it might work out really well.

[MattyD380]

Hey, thanks for that link.

I just ordered a featherweight BB from them.

It’s 7.8 ounces so it might work out really well.

Nice! Congrats. That's lighter than a LCP--closing in on P32 territory. Would love to know how it works when you get it. Everything I've read suggests the level of quality is really excellent.

[Joe in PNG]

I once carried dual Baby Brownings, and foolishly sold both years ago.

I do have an FN 1905, and wouldn't mind the addition of a Baby Browning, a Walther 9, an Otgies, a Mauser 1910, a Velo Dog... and pretty much the whole slew of prewar .25acp vest pocket pistols.

[john c]

Hey, thanks for that link.

I just ordered a featherweight BB from them.

It’s 7.8 ounces so it might work out really well.

I’m very interested in hearing your thoughts on how the Walther and BB compare.


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[Polecat]

JCN,

That’s impressive. Those new PSAs are nice. I had one of the featherweights, which couldn’t get to run, I had another all blue PSA that ran like a sewing machine. I got rid of my featherlight as it was, if I recall, about 1.5 oz heavier than my BB lightweight. That being said my BB wouldn’t run either until I used factory mags and voila, it is awesome.


Dave

[Joe in PNG]

Now you got me browsing the micro mouseguns at GB.

Like this cool Dreyse here (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/940312041).

[MattyD380]

Cool. I need to read up on that one.

I always had a thing for the CZ-45. DAO. A touch larger than others.

Apparently CZ makes a modern version of it called the CZ-92. But of course it can’t be imported because of the gun control act.

[Joe in PNG]

.25acp Velo Dog revolver (https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/products/149155-late-german-velo-dog-635-caliber-pr52824.html) enabling...

[JCN]

I showed my wife my “new pocket gun” while in my pocket and she said, “That’s a gun?! It looked like a wallet!”

92004

Then she asked, “can you even hit anything with that?”

Hahaha

[Joe in PNG]

Way back when, I made my BB holster out of duct tape and cardboard.

[Polecat]

Now we just need to encourage Federal to bring out a copper solid truncated 40-45 gr at an honest 875-950 from these little guns “Federal Punch .25”

[Lex Luthier]

Now we just need to encourage Federal to bring out a copper solid truncated 40-45 gr at an honest 875-950 from these little guns “Federal Punch .25”

The Beretta 950 in my vault just tipped its little Italian Admiral's dress hat in your direction.

JCN

That Walther is cute as a bug. Any idea on production date?

[JCN]

Now we just need to encourage Federal to bring out a copper solid truncated 40-45 gr at an honest 875-950 from these little guns “Federal Punch .25”

I did a muzzle calculator… and it gives 70 ft lbs.

Waaah waaah.

That’s kind of sad, lol.

[JCN]

The Beretta 950 in my vault just tipped its little Italian Admiral's dress hat in your direction.

JCN

That Walther is cute as a bug. Any idea on production date?

Looks like 1932 or so, one of the later 2nd Gen models.

[JCN]

Hey, thanks for that link.

I just ordered a featherweight BB from them.

It’s 7.8 ounces so it might work out really well.

I talked to Lenn and apparently it’s 8 weeks production for this model.

So I sobered up and canceled the order. Other featherweights are a few hundred dollars less, I found out from distributors. But really, 60-70 ft lbs of energy isn’t really confidence inspiring…

[john c]

I talked to Lenn and apparently it’s 8 weeks production for this model.

So I sobered up and canceled the order. Other featherweights are a few hundred dollars less, I found out from distributors. But really, 60-70 ft lbs of energy isn’t really confidence inspiring…

That is the downside to small pistols. On some level, it was “enough” for the time period. Plenty of guys were put in the ground with these pistols. Nowadays, there’s a reason they’re curiosities.

If you really need a super small pistol, this is way better than an NAA revolver. But not by much.


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[BillSWPA]

This article describes one such pistol serving its purpose at a time when it was the best option.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-baby-browning-a-25-acp-pocket-pistol-for-personal-protection/

[Polecat]

Don’t think about ft. Lbs. energy. Think of it as a .25 caliber stick poking a hole. That is a big hole in an aorta. See my post in ammunition section. We need some accurate chrono/ penetration info on just FMJ as the dumb hollowpoints are ridiculous in this tiny caliber. Mayn have espoused the FMJ metal Geco as THE round for penetration, but I have not seen any objective info to confirm it. I think there is probably a lot of variation in the FMJ rounds of which there Are about 13 currently available. To me th Federal seems like it is the hottest. That being said, you could probably push a 40-45 grain solid to more than 1000 fps.

JCN, go for the original BB lightweight, you won’t be sorry! I am tweaking mine into a more subdued two tone. Replacing polished shiny slide with blued one, changing all shiny controls to blued. Almost done collecting the parts, just need to reassemble and test fire.

These are fine in their very limited role of DEFENSIVE use in a 3-5 yard range. Playing with them, the results are suprising. All shots rapidly into head sized target with one hand. Just be honest with your need and realistic potential use.

[JCN]

Don’t think about ft. Lbs. energy. Think of it as a .25 caliber stick poking a hole. That is a big hole in an aorta. See my post in ammunition section. We need some accurate chrono/ penetration info on just FMJ as the dumb hollowpoints are ridiculous in this tiny caliber.

The issue is that it might not get through a sternum. Probably not through an arm in front of the chest and then into the chest.

And it wouldn’t be a 0.25 caliber hole in an aorta because of elasticity and contraction.

Think of shooting a tire with a 9mm… the resulting hole doesn’t stay 9mm…

I have a couple days off work… I might do some JCN ballistic testing but I expect it to be kind of sad.

I might compare to a 2 inch WMR…

[Polecat]

JCN, I can’t remember, you may have sent me a link to bone simulant with various hardwoods? I think oak was equivalent to cancellous bone, but cant recall. The conversion is the sticky part right, as in does 1” hard oak equal _____ inches of sternum / skull?

[JCN]

JCN, I can’t remember, you may have sent me a link to bone simulant with various hardwoods? I think oak was equivalent to cancellous bone, but cant recall. The conversion is the sticky part right, as in does 1” hard oak equal _____ inches of sternum / skull?

I did send you that link and I still have oak planks lying around!

It’s cortical bone and not cancellous.

The issue with trying to come up with an equivalent is difficult because of marrow and the cancellous bone in between the cortical.

[Joe in PNG]

Despite my prewar .25acp pistol fetish, I'd be really reluctant to carry one now as a primary sd gun. I could pack any number of micro .380's in roughly the same amount of pocket realestate.

I would consider a .25acp velo dog revolver as a BUG, and even then I'd rather see a modernized version as mentioned in other threads.

[BillSWPA]

About 26-27 years ago, I briefly owned a .25. The first and only time I shot it, two FMJ bullets struck my wood target frame. They penetrated 3/16 inch before dropping to the ground virtually undamaged. My 1 1/8 inch North American Arms .22 lr would completely bury bullets in the same wood. My Browning Buck Mark, with its 5 1/2 inch barrel, would drive bullets completely through the wood.

Some of my friends owned small .22 and .25 pistols, and reported mixed reliability. Since tiny .32 pistols were not yet widely available (unless one either waited 3 years or paid $1,000 for a Seecamp), the NAA became my gun of choice when something tiny was needed.

These tiny .25 pistols are neat, but I am glad we no longer need to choose them.


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