We need a DA / SA along micro compact lines

[Polecat]

I mean come on already! Even just a thinner design, smaller for CCW. The Springfield was horrid in my opinion, looked clunky and top heavy. Surely Beretta could trim the PX4 a bit! It needs a refresh anyway. There was mention of a slimmed Omega system on CZ Forum, that was a while back. I think Sig should trim and update the P250 and bring it back!

[PNWTO]

I just want to time travel to when P239s were plentiful, albeit I imagine one is oversized for your needs. And heavy.

To your thread, and as someone who has “almost bought one” for a few months now, where does the Tomcat fit in your vision? Last surviving DA mouse-sized Neanderthal?

[camsdaddy]

S&W 3913 and the CS9 have both been discontinued but may be options. I don’t think either are micro compacts but they are small.

[OlongJohnson]

The 3913/3953 are only slightly slimmer than a G19 or USPc, and not really any lighter. The 8-round mags give up fully half the ammo on board compared to a USPc with the latest 17-round P30 mags and an X-Grip adaptor. The DA on the small third-gen Smiths is really heavy. The 3953 is one of those that will exceed the capacity of an 11-lb trigger pull force gauge with regularity.

I think it was HCM who commented that a P250 action downsized to P365 or P365XL would have an overly heavy trigger. I'm not sure I buy that; I'd have to get into the details of the argument.

In any case, I'd be perfectly happy with an LCP action scaled up. My LCP Custom had issues, but once I went through it and deburred and smoothed the action, trigger smoothness and weight were not on the problem side of the ledger. I wrote here at the time that it was surprisingly smooth and reasonably light. It shares the characteristic of a K/L/N frame in that the mainspring is essentially frictionless, so if execution isn't a big bag of suck, it should come out smoother than most. Of all the defects LCPs are known for, failing to ignite small pistol primers doesn't register in my memory as being on the list.

I could also handle the trigger press of my M&P 340. It has stock springs, but is smooth enough that with the lack of friction, I don't have any inclination to try lighter springs. Put that in a P365XL package and I'd be happy.

[Polecat]

Those are great and have owned one of em at one time or another. Exactly why we need em. I think kinda build it and they will come sorta thing. I think Sig should have done to the P239 what they did to the P224! Would love a smaller, thinner, lighter Sigpro! Doesn’t have to be P365 small, just better package.

[LHS]

I keep saying S&W needs to make a DA/SA hammer version of the Shield and call it a Shield Chief's Special

[MattyD380]

I have (d)illusions of the “X” in S&W’s CSX being kind of a wildcard… so, potentially, they could add other models to the line… like a CSD for a DA/SA variant. It’s already a hammer-fired action… adding some DA components and a decocker couldn't be toooo hard. Could it? I mean, if you’re an engineer and stuff…

Also… the PPK is still being made. It is, literally, a micro compact DA/SA 9mm(x17). It seems like the new one is generally reliable. Personally, I find fixed-barrel blowbacks to be very accurate, too. But, I also have found the Makarov PM to be about the best of that bunch (in terms of reliability and accuracy). If you’re not dead set on 9x19, I feel like it’s hard to beat a Mak for a rugged, reliable, small, very accurate, DA/SA carry gun. Plus, 9x18 makes slightly bigger holes than capitalist 9mms.

[LHS]

I have (d)illusions of the “X” in S&W’s CSX being kind of a wildcard… so, potentially, they could add other models to the line… like a CSD for a DA/SA variant. It’s already a hammer-fired action… adding some DA components and a decocker couldn't be toooo hard. Could it? I mean, if you’re an engineer and stuff…

Also… the PPK is still being made. It is, literally, a micro compact DA/SA 9mm(x17). It seems like the new one is generally reliable. Personally, I find fixed-barrel blowbacks to be very accurate, too. But, I also have found the Makarov PM to be about the best of that bunch (in terms of reliability and accuracy). If you’re not dead set on 9x19, I feel like it’s hard to beat a Mak for a rugged, reliable, small, very accurate, DA/SA carry gun. Plus, 9x18 makes slightly bigger holes than capitalist 9mms.

The problem with the PPK, other than it not being terribly reliable and biting even smaller hands, is that it's expensive the way old-school machined-steel guns are. It'd be nice to get the benefits of a DA/SA gun with the economy of a polymer frame and modern engineering.

[elsquid]

FWIW, Ruger makes the LC380 for California…

https://ruger.com/search/state_ca/pistol

…in fact, it’s the only Ruger auto that folks can buy new in the state.

Ruger also offers a 9mm conversion kit for it, because, well “California” again.

https://shopruger.com/LC9-Conversion-Kit-for-LC380-Pistol/productinfo/90499/

— Michael

[Evil_Ed]

Every now and again a manufacturer will do a run of something subcompact...a handful of people will go "Awesome!"....and then everyone else will buy a G19 instead. Or maybe a Shield.

The handful of "subcompacts" that I have:

91513

Detonics Combatmaster (later, GA production), Walther P99c, Sig P220 Compact, Springfield XD-E in 9mm, and an early Detonics Combatmaster

91514

We all know how slim 1911s are, so though it'd be helpful comparing them - the P99c is chonky for sure. The P220C doesn't feel as thick, but visually...it sure is. The XD-E is probably the slimmest of them all, at least in this group.

I don't think I have any other DA/SA subcompacts floating around...the Detonics are there strictly as a control/known; they defined the sub-compact automatic genre when they came out, and still punch at or above their weight class today IMO.

[Bucky]

The problem with the PPK, other than it not being terribly reliable and biting even smaller hands, is that it's expensive the way old-school machined-steel guns are. It'd be nice to get the benefits of a DA/SA gun with the economy of a polymer frame and modern engineering.

Even IF it was spot on reliable, and even if it was comfortably deburred, the options today with 9mm (way better ballistics), higher capacity, lighter weight, smaller size, you’d have to be hard core DA/SA (or nostalgic) to make that choice.

[gato naranja]

Surely Beretta could trim the PX4 a bit! It needs a refresh anyway.

I think a hammer-fired APX A1 Carry (think "modular chassis DA/SA") with a S&W Shield Plus/P365 type magazine would be the way to kickstart things, and once that is done, they can wow the troops by re-engineering the PX4 into a modular chassis pistol... and in doing so, giving it the better grip(s) it ought to have.

[spyderco monkey]

The Sphinx SDP Subcompact was likely the most modern of the DA/SA options. Alas, I traded away my matching set of them. I'd be shocked if there are 5,000 of them in the entire US.

https://i.ibb.co/pJ6Pw0K/sdp-subcompact-pl-NM-07675-1582645385.png

I'd also love to see a "9x19 Polymer PPK" type pistol, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Consumers prefer striker as it's what they know, and manufacturers prefer striker because it's much cheaper and easier to manufacture.

[Evil_Ed]

Which reminds me, the CZ Rami is a thing, too...

[camsdaddy]

I wonder if the micro compact with the DA trigger would be tricky. I wonder if the small square grip would be harder to grip while pulling DA trigger. I think the shape of the grip of a small revolver makes it easy to shoot.

[HeavyDuty]

…Detonics Combatmaster…

*swoon* I remember lusting for one before I was legal.

I’m hugely impressed with my P99c, but I’m so invested in Glocks that it doesn’t see a lot of use. The end result of the action is close enough to TDA for me.

[JCN]

I wonder if the micro compact with the DA trigger would be tricky. I wonder if the small square grip would be harder to grip while pulling DA trigger. I think the shape of the grip of a small revolver makes it easy to shoot.

I think the Kahr PM9 is close to the current micro compact size and that had a nice, smooth DA.

[Polecat]

Spyder those are like the sweet spot! I sold mine off too out of boredom. That is what I envision CZ would offer in P07 line except all polymer and less expensive.

CZ actually could do alot in this regard. Imagine a compact and sub Phantom! With some CZ custom enhancements. Currently I like the P07s, but could stand a diet.

[45dotACP]

Unless it's a pocket gun I have no use for something smaller than a p07. If it's something I have to belt carry, the holster is what matters most to me.

With a JM kydex holster I can wear my P07 in even my most extra smedium t shirts. I have even carried it wearing my No-gi rashguard.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Chuck Whitlock]

I think the Kahr PM9 is close to the current micro compact size and that had a nice, smooth DA.

Only thing missing is being striker-fired instead of hammer-fired.

On that front, I recall Tom Jones opining that an SCD for Kahrs would be totally viable, but the R&D + manufacturing costs would not be worth it for the 5 people who would buy one.

I would totally be one of the five.

[LockedBreech]

I read the whole thread, but after the second post I couldn't shake my melancholy about the P239, which was once HIGH on my guns-I-want list and now is basically a completely unjustifiable purchase for its rounds/weight ratio.

It's still undoubtedly cool.

[TheNewbie]

How big is the Betetta 84 compared to a Glock 19?

[TheNewbie]

I wish the Bersa Thunder Plus didn’t have the stupid lock, was durable/reliable, and could be had in decock only (or a spring loaded safety like on the B92).

[LockedBreech]

How big is the Betetta 84 compared to a Glock 19?

I'll try to remember to take a pic later, I've got a 19 Gen 5 and an 84BB. the Glock 19 is quite a big bigger but I don't think too much heavier.

[Clusterfrack]

Which reminds me, the CZ Rami is a thing, too...

I briefly considered the Rami, until I had the chance to handle one. It’s bigger than it looks, especially in the grip. P-07 is about the same effective carry size.

[Guerrero]

How big is the Betetta 84 compared to a Glock 19?

Here's the Handgun Hero comparison:

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/beretta-84bb-cheetah-vs-glock-g19

[Clusterfrack]

Here's the Handgun Hero comparison:

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/beretta-84bb-cheetah-vs-glock-g19

And as with the Rami, the effective carry size isn’t better because the grip is big.

[JCN]

Spyder those are like the sweet spot! I sold mine off too out of boredom. That is what I envision CZ would offer in P07 line except all polymer and less expensive.

CZ actually could do alot in this regard. Imagine a compact and sub Phantom! With some CZ custom enhancements. Currently I like the P07s, but could stand a diet.

I would buy a sub P07/01 in a heartbeat

[JAH 3rd]

There are so many variables with the shooter and pistol. Decades ago I just had to have a Sig P245. A compact .45acp that, on the surface checked all the boxes on my list. Size and caliber were the first two boxes. Bought one, shot it, got rid of it. I knew I wasn't going to invest the time and money to shoot this pistol with any degree of confidence.

The pistol shot 100%. The issue was me. First of all, there wasn't enough real estate for me to get a proper grip. After each shot I had to reposition my hand on the grip. Secondly, the pistol felt top heavy. I think my grip issue contributed to that. Thirdly, my sight picture was less stable on the DA first shot. And this was because my grip on the pistol wasn't steadying the pistol to keep my sight picture stable.

My point here is one just doesn't know how a pistol will fit until you try it. The takeaway is, for me, there has to be enough grip area to consistently and proficiently acquire and hold the pistol for accurate shooting.

[LHS]

And as with the Rami, the effective carry size isn’t better because the grip is big.

A good chunk of that is the super-fat factory grips. If you toss some LOK grips on it, it slims down dramatically.

[jeremy_[]

I've been pinging for a single stack P01 or Ruger to make a slightly larger 9mm version of the SR22...maybe one in 39 SC? However, for my, small revolvers conceal better so I'll keep my 2 j frames and maybe add a 60 or 640 and put a 507K on it.

[MattyD380]

The problem with the PPK, other than it not being terribly reliable and biting even smaller hands, is that it's expensive the way old-school machined-steel guns are. It'd be nice to get the benefits of a DA/SA gun with the economy of a polymer frame and modern engineering.

I mean, I'm with you. My Ulm PPK/S .380 wasn't convincingly reliable--though, I think it may have just needed a new mag catch. And it literally made my hand bleed after about 50 rounds. I don't think it was slide bite, per se... but the beavertail literally hammered into my hand so hard it would break the skin.

But... it was accurate. Always grouped super tight to POA. But so does my Makarov. And it's more reliable and way more comfortable to shoot. Slightly bigger than a PPK, but still has a clear size advantage over virtually every other locked breech DA/SA option.

91518

Recently got this P99c (traded a P2000) because I love my full-size P99 so much. The short grip hides pretty well, but with the slide width, it's really not much more comfortable in the pants than the full size P99. Plus, the Mak grip and a stock P239 grip are thinner, so they both stay pretty flat against the body AIWB, despite being longer than a P99c grip.

91519

I dunno. I'll experiment with different approaches to carrying it, but I'm not sure it'll fill the role I wanted it to as a "most-of-the-time" DA/SA carry gun.

But, per the thread title, I would definitely be game for a new DA/SA option in the same size category as a Shield, P365 or CSX. Until then, my Mak, my P239 and my P88c can handle most of my needs.

[JAH 3rd]

I have a P2000 in 9mm. For a DA/SA pistol, I find that it is the one I choose to wear most often. It’s about a perfect size for me in this action category. With the 13 round magazine and flat floor plate the capacity is there. Just wondering what your experience has been with the P2000. Thanks!

[MattyD380]

I have a P2000 in 9mm. For a DA/SA pistol, I find that it is the one I choose to wear most often. It’s about a perfect size for me in this action category. With the 13 round magazine and flat floor plate the capacity is there. Just wondering what your experience has been with the P2000. Thanks!

I just found it more difficult (well, I should say, "less intuitive") to shoot than a P99 or a PX4c. That's subjective, of course--YMMV. But for me, that's kind par for the course with HKs. I've had a P2SK LEM, a HK45c and USPC 45. I found them all bit more challenging to shoot on POA compared to Berettas, Sigs and Walthers. I think they're superbly engineered firearms, but, it was hard to justify keeping it around when I can easily carve out the center of a silhouette with a P99 or a PX4--both of which carry about the same, in terms of overall comfort and concealability. For me, anyway.

I saw the P2000 in the LGS for a decent price... had cash from a recent gun sale... so, "why not?" Didn't win me over in the first few hundred rounds. And now I've got a P99c to go with my P99. Works for me. :cool:

[DownZero]

Though i doubt it will happen Smith&Wesson reintroducing the 3913 would be a great thing in my opinion. I owned several in Da/Sa and DAO. They were flawlessly reliable. I owned two of each. As well as a 4013, 4043 and a 4516. Also flawlessly reliable. I used them in multiple high round count classes in the 90's. One of the 3953's was worked over by Karl Sokol, in an interesting package he did which undercut the trigger guard and the tang area to give a higher grip and allow a better three finger grip. He also modified the grips to slightly increase their size and change their shape because they were quite small for most people's hands.

What advantage do these have over the SIG's, Beretta's etc.? They're VERY thin especially in the grip. The 239 is a porker in comparison, let's face it SIG's are just fat and the Beretta huge. I once measured a 225 with calipers in a gun shop with a gun smith friend. It miked out to the size of a 5904. The grips are just fat as is the slide. The 239 may be as thin in the grips but I doubt it, and you still have the fat slide. The Smith uses locking lugs like the 1911 allowing it to be thinner and have a rounded slide. I know it's only marginally thinner than a 19 but it matter's in IWB carry. And the rounding of the slide helps. A LOT. I carried them or a G19. It made a difference. I once spoke to the guy who took over for Milt Sparks when Milt retired, name escape's me, and other custom holster makers, they all commented how the blocky square slide of the Glock made it harder to make holster's for and conceal. Yes I have heard of Kydex, lol.

Smith's use of the wrap around one piece grip eliminating the grip screw's/bushing's was genius. It took SIG like 20 years to do the same. I always felt the 3rd Gen Smith's never got any love because everyone was enamored with Beretta's and SIG's, because of the bad rap Smith's got with their prior semi-auto's, which they could never shake, and what that same gun smith friend called "the foreign gun disease". It's from Europe it must be better. And certainly cooler!

I would prefer a DAO, especially if smith could get the trigger pull down in weight. Since 92's are a "thing" again maaaybe Smith would?

[JAH 3rd]

MattyD380, thanks for your reply! I’ve heard/read that HK sights are a bit different with POA. I have a PX4 compact and it’s a great shooter. I added the D-spring that’s specific to that platform. Made a lot of difference in the DA trigger pull.

[Evil_Ed]

I just found it more difficult (well, I should say, "less intuitive") to shoot than a P99 or a PX4c. That's subjective, of course--YMMV. But for me, that's kind par for the course with HKs. I've had a P2SK LEM, a HK45c and USPC 45. I found them all bit more challenging to shoot on POA compared to Berettas, Sigs and Walthers. I think they're superbly engineered firearms, but, it was hard to justify keeping it around when I can easily carve out the center of a silhouette with a P99 or a PX4--both of which carry about the same, in terms of overall comfort and concealability. For me, anyway.

I saw the P2000 in the LGS for a decent price... had cash from a recent gun sale... so, "why not?" Didn't win me over in the first few hundred rounds. And now I've got a P99c to go with my P99. Works for me. :cool:

Similar here - I loved everything about the P2k...except that if I so much as took a week off from dry or live fire practice, any skills with it would atrophy to the point where they fell off a cliff after just a week. I'm talking not even able to hit a 3x5 card at 10 feet cold from the draw, kind of atrophy. Didn't have/don't have that problem with anything else...I can pick up a 1911 or Glock after letting it sit idle for a few months and make hits on demand from the draw, but that P2k just fought against it. I'm not a great shot, but I like to think I can at least not be a danger if I need to use a gun...that P2k was just dangerous for me to carry if I wasn't constantly using it.

It was a shame because it was perfect in every other way. Right size, right shape, right weight, right mag release...right everything, except it didn't fit :eek:

[MattyD380]

MattyD380, thanks for your reply! I’ve heard/read that HK sights are a bit different with POA. I have a PX4 compact and it’s a great shooter. I added the D-spring that’s specific to that platform. Made a lot of difference in the DA trigger pull.

No problem, my friend! Don't get me wrong... I think HKs are great pistols. And it's not like I shot the thing BAD. It just doesn't connect with me like other pistols in the same class do. So... I choose those. Honestly, I'll say I thought the trigger on the P2000 was surprisingly decent. The DA was much smoother than I remember my HK45c being. And yeah--the PX4c is a great shooter. But it is a lil' chunk.

[MattyD380]

Similar here - I loved everything about the P2k...except that if I so much as took a week off from dry or live fire practice, any skills with it would atrophy to the point where they fell off a cliff after just a week. I'm talking not even able to hit a 3x5 card at 10 feet cold from the draw, kind of atrophy. Didn't have/don't have that problem with anything else...I can pick up a 1911 or Glock after letting it sit idle for a few months and make hits on demand from the draw, but that P2k just fought against it. I'm not a great shot, but I like to think I can at least not be a danger if I need to use a gun...that P2k was just dangerous for me to carry if I wasn't constantly using it.

It was a shame because it was perfect in every other way. Right size, right shape, right weight, right mag release...right everything, except it didn't fit :eek:

Honestly, that more or less reflects my sentiments on the P2000 as well.

I kinda already had that outlook on HKs in general going into this last experience. But... I figured maybe because I have a little more experience now... something will "click" that just didn't before.

Eh. No.

And I realize that might kinda be lazy thinking; a gun ain't gonna shoot itself. You've gotta do your due diligence. But, on the other hand, why choose a gun that feels like it's fighting you, when you don't have to?

[Evil_Ed]

Honestly, that more or less reflects my sentiments on the P2000 as well.

I kinda already had that outlook on HKs in general going into this last experience. But... I figured maybe because I have a little more experience now... something will "click" that just didn't before.

Eh. No.

And I realize that might kinda be lazy thinking; a gun ain't gonna shoot itself. You've gotta do your due diligence. But, on the other hand, why choose a gun that feels like it's fighting you, when you don't have to?

Exactly. The funny thing is, the P30 I decided to try afterwards (while holding breath and hoping)...no such issues with that one. The grip is a little longer; it's not quite the "perfect" package, but it shoots a thousand times better for me and I can leave it alone for a few weeks and still hit with it. Go figure.

[MattyD380]

Exactly. The funny thing is, the P30 I decided to try afterwards (while holding breath and hoping)...no such issues with that one. The grip is a little longer; it's not quite the "perfect" package, but it shoots a thousand times better for me and I can leave it alone for a few weeks and still hit with it. Go figure.

Huh. That's interesting. Yeah, the P30's grip--I guess--makes it kind of a different animal. But for me, the longer grip kinda puts it in a different category as far as carry/concealment.

I'd kinda like to try a P30L, at some point.

[4RNR]

CZ Rami, P239, Mak ... Are all not much smaller than a G19. Biggest difference is barrel length/overall length

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[358156hp]

Seriously, I think it's time for the return of the ASP. It would be much simpler to build with todays technology, although I suppose it would end up with a poly frame. I could skip the Guttersnipe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trmOFxuJw0

[HeavyDuty]

Seriously, I think it's time for the return of the ASP. It would be much simpler to build with todays technology, although I suppose it would end up with a poly frame. I could skip the Guttersnipe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trmOFxuJw0

I loved mine, but it was very quirky and picky - Silvertips only, and the Guttersnipe required constant practice. My 3913 is a much better gun.

[spyderco monkey]

Seriously, I think it's time for the return of the ASP. It would be much simpler to build with todays technology, although I suppose it would end up with a poly frame. I could skip the Guttersnipe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trmOFxuJw0

I've thought repeatedly about making a 'modern ASP' Kahr K9 outfitted with a set of clear Lexan grips and having a EDM'd magazine to to allow the rounds to be visible. Speed Sights would be my choice as opposed to the Gutternsipe.

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-kp97pt369w/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/2339/5472/SVimg-K9093N__11346.1515511877.jpg?c=2

Meanwhile, Recoil built this amazing 'ASP Shield':

https://www.recoilweb.com/smith-wesson-mp-shield-asp-2-0-128661.html

https://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ASP_2pointO_03.jpg

[358156hp]

The spyderco monkey post sent me diving for one of my most neglected guns, a M&P 9C that's in like-new condition. It's a very late Gen 1 gun, still a bit big, but one of the reasons I bought it was the availability of 12 round mags. I broke the gun in, then left it behind to pursue my flirtations with SIG P320s. That might possibly be my next project. After finishing a pair of 1911s, and my long-dormant LR rifle project.

It seems there's always something that needs doing around here.:D

[No.6]

I've thought repeatedly about making a 'modern ASP' Kahr K9

... which is nearly the dimensions of a PX4SC with two changes:
- With G conversion instead of default bat-wings, the Beretta is about 1.2" wide vs. 0.9" for the Kahr
- PX4SC holds 13+1 vs. 7+1 (or 10+1 in .40, if that's your flavor)

Just data points. For my own carry use I started compact (G19), wandered around in micro for a while, and unless circumstances greatly change am fairly convinced to stick with PX4CC as one for all purposes.

[Polecat]

S&W was really ahead of the game back then with the 3rd series. Delved into smallish guns, undercut, short reset among lots of other innovations.


I would hope they update the CS9 with a CSX mag, better sights, and better grip options. Maybe polymer with different backstraps!

[gato naranja]

... which is nearly the dimensions of a PX4SC with two changes:
- With G conversion instead of default bat-wings, the Beretta is about 1.2" wide vs. 0.9" for the Kahr
- PX4SC holds 13+1 vs. 7+1 (or 10+1 in .40, if that's your flavor).

The Beretta PX4 SC seems to be like Uncle Buck's hat: "it angers a lot of people." With G type carry levers and a full-size magazine reload, I continue to CCW one on a regular basis, shoot it just enough to be current, and let the masses be angry. I'm a card-carrying senior cit and not worried about either being hip or outlasting the thing.

That being said, a more slim-line version as I outlined earlier would still be a good thing.

[ronin0829]

There is an ASP up for sale on gunbroker... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/938631517

[Bucky]

S&W was really ahead of the game back then with the 3rd series. Delved into smallish guns, undercut, short reset among lots of other innovations.


You could say they 'Devel'd' into those guns. ;)

[FreedomFries]

Unless it's a pocket gun I have no use for something smaller than a p07. If it's something I have to belt carry, the holster is what matters most to me.

With a JM kydex holster I can wear my P07 in even my most extra smedium t shirts. I have even carried it wearing my No-gi rashguard.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

I've recently come to this conclusion too. In AIWB, I don't really notice the difference between a slim compact vs a regular midsize compact. A P229 with E2 grips felt so small already that I kind of wondered why nobody has made a "the P229 E2 might be my DA/SA P365 XL" thread. I imagine most people who are committed to carrying a DA/SA have gotten pretty used to carrying at least a mid sized compact. I also don't think a manufacturer could sell sufficient copies of a new slim DA/SA to keep it producing it.

[Clusterfrack]

When I made the switch from striker to TDA, the DA pull was off-putting--especially on tough targets. But after a lot of practice on pulling the trigger straight back (see sigline), it's no big deal. In fact, I don't really care about shooting the toughest target in a sequence on the first shot. It's simply not a problem. However... that's because my grip is solid and neutral to the trigger pull. And that requires the right gun to fit my hands. A Shadow2 with standard Lok or Henning grips, or a P-07 with the small grip insert are as perfect as I can ask for.

A skinny Glock 48 or a Shield (one of the most unergonomic guns I've tried) with a DA/SA trigger would probably be a lot harder to shoot in DA mode. Admittedly the LCP and p380 are more shootable than I would expect, so I guess it’s possible.

[Bucky]

I've recently come to this conclusion too. In AIWB, I don't really notice the difference between a slim compact vs a regular midsize compact. A P229 with E2 grips felt so small already that I kind of wondered why nobody has made a "the P229 E2 might be my DA/SA P365 XL" thread. I imagine most people who are committed to carrying a DA/SA have gotten pretty used to carrying at least a mid sized compact. I also don't think a manufacturer could sell sufficient copies of a new slim DA/SA to keep it producing it.

My 229 feels like a brick compared to a G48 or similar. Granted, I have an older, non E2. YMMV.

[FreedomFries]

My 229 feels like a brick compared to a G48 or similar. Granted, I have an older, non E2. YMMV.

If you put E2 grips on it, it'll feel slim almost like a G48 or P365XL, but with a brick stuck on top of it. You won't have to worry about grip screws stripping the frame and it'll creak less, but I do admit it feels weird because of the big top and small bottom.

[willie]

I've observed that double action mechanisms and systems for having a locked breech upon firing contribute to a pistol's size. Two other variables are the cartridges' size and pressure. Walther PP and PPK pistols were handy but still a tad big and heavy for the pocket. Also the blow back PP series could not handle 9 mm pressures. The Mooney K's are small but heavy. The Smith 3913 in the compact versions gets my vote. The however part from my view is that smaller implies increased probability of unreliability.

[358156hp]

You could say they 'Devel'd' into those guns. ;)

They certainly did their Research and Development from their Paris Research Center.

'nother video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-t3T0_bFkE

[MattyD380]

The Daewoo/Lionheart compacts are very nice-shooting pistols. They're about the size of a S&W 69XX--maybe a bit more svelte. Slide has that traditionally thin profile you get with a Hi Power/1911/3rd gen. And they're currently in production. And they take S&W 69XX mags.

https://www.lionheartindustries.com/product/regulus-blackout-beta/

They're technically DA/SA, but with the DA+ system, you get sort of an "LEM-ish/P99AS-ish" first trigger pull, which then goes into normal SA. You also get a manual safety, which is nice, since it's still technically cocked in DA+ mode.

I have the OG Daewoo DP51c from the 1990s (next to my 6904). I put Lionheart G10 grips on it (after this pic). Shoots freakin' great. I love the straight backstrap--the trigger reach is fantastic if you have small hands.

91766

[42Willys]

This thread is in line with my interests.

I have a PX4C which is a superb pistol, especially with upgrades. The PX4SC disappoints in appendix for me because it too fat and the barrel honesty could be a smidge longer. But it has it’s uses. Stock trigger is good and the light rail is a feature many guns that size don’t have.

A single stack sized like a Shield or 365 single and a half stack size DA/SA pistol in 9x19 would be great.

In .380 the p232 is maybe the best blowback automatic ever made - but out of print. It carries nicely. But given the size one could carry a Shield for less money and in 9x19 and fit it in the same convenience envelope.

[358156hp]

Whew! $6K. Too rich for my blood.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/934640770

[Duces Tecum]

How big is the Betetta 84 compared to a Glock 19?

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/beretta-84bb-cheetah-vs-glock-g19-gen5

[Brian T]

There's a TDA S&W Chiefs Special 9 on arfcom for $700. A bit rich for me and no interest, I like my 3913. But I guess it represents what this thread is looking for, the thread and wants happen to be 20 years late.