Barrel length/style and reliability in 9mm 1911s

[TDoor]

My background largely consists of shooting striker fired pistols like Glocks that just work, but recently I've taken in interest in 1911s, mostly as something to start tinkering with. I'm looking to pick up a 9mm 1911 pretty soon, something like a Springfield that offers a good quality frame/slide to work off of even if the small parts and fit aren't all the way there (that's kind of the point), but I'm not sure where to start in terms of barrel length and style. I know .45 is what I should be looking at if I want a gun that will work flawlessly, I'm just not really down to invest in a new caliber for this venture, and again, learning to tune the gun is part of the appeal.

I frequently hear the refrain that if one wants a 9mm gun, a LW commander is ideal, while I also hear that government length guns are the most reliable because of the additional dwell time. At the same time, I've heard that 9mm can struggle with the weight of a 1911 slide. I also haven't really been able to find any information about whether tapered or bushing barrels do better in 9mm, but I am leaning toward bushing just because they're more traditional and seem easier to tinker with.

In terms of reliably cycling 9mm, government length guns with the added dwell time, or commander models with the lighter slide, which will run better, all else being equal? This is not going to be a carry gun any time soon, and even if it were I don't have trouble with G34 length guns, so I'm not particularly worried about the additional length. I'm just looking to make my life a little bit easier as I learn to tune one of these things.


Does anyone have thoughts/experience on reliability in this caliber?

[john c]

I have three 9mm 1911s; two STI Trojan Lites and a very early Springfield all steel. All are 5 inch guns. The STIs have ramped barrels, and the Springfield does not.

I've had very good reliability, though I've only shot the Springfield very little, so it's early to tell. When shooting the 5 inch guns in 9mm, the slide runs noticeably slower than .45. I've read that guys "tri-top" their slides to reduce weight. If I were buying a new gun, I would consider getting a 4.25 inch commander length gun for a lighter weight slide. Also, I prefer the lightweight aluminum frames of my STIs to the all steel frame. Just a lighter, handier gun. In .45, I much prefer the weight of a steel frame to dampen recoil.

Like others, I think the 1911 is a great platform in 9mm.

Don't set your expectations of Springfields too low. I've had great luck with them. Once I bought an example of a Kimber and Springfield in the exact same trims and price points, and shot them side-by-side in a local league for about a year. I determined that I dramatically prefer the Springfield, and sold the Kimber. Both guns performed well; I just liked the Springfield much better.

That said, going one notch higher than a Springfield or Kimber will get you a much better gun. I've never tried a Dan Wesson, but getting an STI for $200 or so more bucks was a big step up in quality. With your goal in mind, a Springfield will be fine.

[HCM]

My background largely consists of shooting striker fired pistols like Glocks that just work, but recently I've taken in interest in 1911s, mostly as something to start tinkering with. I'm looking to pick up a 9mm 1911 pretty soon, something like a Springfield that offers a good quality frame/slide to work off of even if the small parts and fit aren't all the way there (that's kind of the point), but I'm not sure where to start in terms of barrel length and style. I know .45 is what I should be looking at if I want a gun that will work flawlessly, I'm just not really down to invest in a new caliber for this venture, and again, learning to tune the gun is part of the appeal.

I frequently hear the refrain that if one wants a 9mm gun, a LW commander is ideal, while I also hear that government length guns are the most reliable because of the additional dwell time. At the same time, I've heard that 9mm can struggle with the weight of a 1911 slide. I also haven't really been able to find any information about whether tapered or bushing barrels do better in 9mm, but I am leaning toward bushing just because they're more traditional and seem easier to tinker with.

In terms of reliably cycling 9mm, government length guns with the added dwell time, or commander models with the lighter slide, which will run better, all else being equal? This is not going to be a carry gun any time soon, and even if it were I don't have trouble with G34 length guns, so I'm not particularly worried about the additional length. I'm just looking to make my life a little bit easier as I learn to tune one of these things.


Does anyone have thoughts/experience on reliability in this caliber?

Base reliability for 1911 configuration is a 5” steel frame gun in .45 ACP using 7 round magazines.

The more you deviate from that format (via caliber, barrel Length, frame material etc) the greater the potential for problems.

In general a commander sized gun with a 4 to 4 1/2 inch barrel will run best in 9 mm. Some favor bull barrels vs traditional bushing barrel set ups claiming they are more reliable.

You could get lucky and get a “good” SA or Ruger 9mm 1911 but reasonable likelihood of getting a 9mm 1911 that runs without gunsmithing starts with Dan Wesson and goes up from there.

There is significant variation between different makes of 1911 magazines. The “best” is which ever runs best in your individual gun.

PS- re: Springfield- some of my best (and worst) 1911s have been Springfields. They are like Forest Gump’s box of chocolates. IME Dan Wesson is the safest bet.

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

I have a 5” DW specialist in 9 that runs great now but the first 500 rounds were definitely required for break in on my sample. During that time I couldn’t get through a full 10 rd mag without a malfunction because it was very tight.

My brother has a 5” SA combat operator that runs reliability as well out of the box.

Fwiw, I don’t consider my DW quite as reliable as my Glocks or Berettas.


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[rathos]

In 45 5 inch or 4.25. for 9mm 4.5 or smaller. I have had the most issues with 5 inch 1911s. There is a reason the new staccatos are 4.45 and 3.9 inches. I recently got rid of a 5 inch 1911 because it was the least reliable. Took the most time and effort (via multiple recoil spring changes and hundreds of rounds) to find the right combo. For my 4.25 ruger it ran out of the box and after I got a chambers red dot plate installed it continues to run without any spring changes. I also have an officers STI spartan. It runs like crazy and has been to a few high round count classes. The only issue I ever had with it was trying to run Wilson combat mags. It seems to like the metal form mags only. 9mm 1911s and 2011s seem to be the most reliable with a 3.9 inch to 4.5 inch barrel.

[S Jenks]

I have a 5” DW specialist in 9 that runs great now but the first 500 rounds were definitely required for break in on my sample. During that time I couldn’t get through a full 10 rd mag without a malfunction because it was very tight.

Same here, except ~800 rounds. Perfectly reliable in the 4000ish rounds since then.

[gato naranja]

Does anyone have thoughts/experience on reliability in this caliber?

I may be the outlier in this thread, because as I have "discovered" the 9mm 1911 for myself, I have not noticed any huge reliability differences between full length, all steel pistols or shorter, alloy framed guns. All have been Springfields with the exception of one Ruger, so we are talking about <$1000 apples and not >$1000 oranges. All of them had some minor fit/finish issues out of the box, and the result of my experiences with them lead me to believe that that the first thing to do on a new 9mm 1911 is to make sure the disconnector is moving smoothly and nothing is being hindered in movement by a burr somewhere or a sharp edge on the stamped sear/disco/grip safety spring. My first big mistake in the 9mm 1911 game was not really looking at the fcg parts closely enough to see where things were chewing on one another... a simple field strip was not sufficient, and subsequent purchases have been taken down a bit more completely early in the game.

Once each of the lot had been cleaned/thoroughly inspected, with no components needlessly rasping against one another, and everything lubed as I like it, the all-steel 5" guns have worked as reliably as the more compact ones. I do think that the 5" 9mm's are quicker to tell you if they are under- or over-sprung. This "big iron," as has been noted in earlier posts, is more tame in recoil impulse and slower in slide movement (given the factory recoil springs). Both of us here at casa del gato consider the bushingless "bull" barrels and the trad bushing barrels a wash as far as functionality goes, but the trad ones need no little tool to capture anything, and I am always laying that bent factory pin down someplace and then losing it in plain sight.

(Allen hex keys from the toolbox suffice until until I eventually find the factory tool.)

While we have had better results overall with the Springfield/Leatham style Metalform magazines, we use all the various magazines we have on a regular basis, and habitually load all of them down from their nominal capacity by one round. Saves on cussing.

My favorite 9mm 1911 of the lot remains that first one: a 5" all-steel 1911 RO Operator having a 3/4 rail. It is heavier out front and is super-stable for me. It is sort of the shooting equivalent of a 383 Super Commando in a Plymouth Fury compared to the same mill in a Barracuda (representing the more compact 1911's). I guess I prefer comfort to speed in my old age. The better half thinks I am obtuse and prefers the shorter, lighter guns.

It is not a reliability issue, but one thing you may want to consider in making your choice is the sight radius: it is much easier for gata naranja to use the commander-length guns because her eyes handle that sight radius better; I find the same to be true to a lesser degree, but I prefer to use the 5" guns and just deal with it as best I can.

[krav51]

My Wilson Combat experior commander has been 100 percent through 3000 rounds now.I think regardless of make ,running Wilson mags is a good idea

[OlongJohnson]

All of them had some minor fit/finish issues out of the box, and the result of my experiences with them lead me to believe that that the first thing to do on a new 9mm 1911 is to make sure the disconnector is moving smoothly and nothing is being hindered in movement by a burr somewhere or a sharp edge on the stamped sear/disco/grip safety spring. My first big mistake in the 9mm 1911 game was not really looking at the fcg parts closely enough to see where things were chewing on one another... a simple field strip was not sufficient, and subsequent purchases have been taken down a bit more completely early in the game.

Once each of the lot had been cleaned/thoroughly inspected, with no components needlessly rasping against one another, and everything lubed as I like it...

That is every gun for me, from every manufacturer so far. There is no such thing as out of the box to the firing line.

[HCM]

I have a 5” DW specialist in 9 that runs great now but the first 500 rounds were definitely required for break in on my sample. During that time I couldn’t get through a full 10 rd mag without a malfunction because it was very tight.

My brother has a 5” SA combat operator that runs reliability as well out of the box.

Fwiw, I don’t consider my DW quite as reliable as my Glocks or Berettas.


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Myself and two other PF members had problematic SA Combat Operators in 9mm. Myself and one other member sent them back to SA for warranty work and eventually got rid of them be use they still weren’t “right.” JHC sent his off to a gunsmith and spent nearly the cost of the pistol making it “right.”

Re: DW, If I recall correctly the factory specifically recommends a 500 round break in.

[M2CattleCo]

I’ve had a buncha 9mm 1911s.

The best were Wilson Combats worked over by Chambers Custom.

They were 5” and ran better than the 4 1/4” and 4” I had.

[Jim Watson]

I have learned through experien$e that the 5" gun is easier for me to get hits with. Ironic, my most accurate 1911oid is a .45 Combat Commander... from a Ransom Rest.

My Colt 1991A1 has been reliable, all modifications were ergonomic for IDPA ESP.
Springfield MixMaster A, even apart from the swapping around to get a Lightweight Loaded Target, had some of the small part problems you hear about. It is fine now, though.

The gun that has been through so many changes that it is known as Frankenine ended up Commander size and I find it less effective.

[gato naranja]

That is every gun for me, from every manufacturer so far. There is no such thing as out of the box to the firing line.

Such an animal may actually exist, but I probably couldn't afford it.


Fwiw, I don’t consider my DW quite as reliable as my Glocks or Berettas.

At this point I can't flat-out say our remaining 9mm 1911's aren't as reliable as our respective CCW handguns... but I would use them defensively with misgivings "just because." Since they are basically our range toy/recreational gun centerfires, they are sort of coddled and not run under adverse conditions.

[JHC]

Myself and two other PF members had problematic SA Combat Operators in 9mm. Myself and one other member sent them back to SA for warranty work and eventually got rid of them be use they still weren’t “right.” JHC sent his off to a gunsmith and spent nearly the cost of the pistol making it “right.”

Re: DW, If I recall correctly the factory specifically recommends a 500 round break in.

Yep! My copy ran great but was silly inaccurate. $1500 of Dave Sams perfection made it the finest pistol I own. HOBBY MATH :cool:

[Crazy Dane]

I have two Colt Commanders, one steel and one light weight. Both needed the extractors tensioned straight out of the box and one needed some touch up file work on the hook, I think it was the LW don't really remember.

Both run well with the Factory Colt mags and the Brownell's branded mags, I haven't had to try any others. Neither likes cheap steel cased ammo and start to choke after a couple of mags.

Both came with the dual recoil springs. I tried a single flat wire in the steel gun and had nothing but problems and went back to the duel to solve them.

Both are laser accurate, the edge going to the steel gun.

Steel gun round count is over 4k and the Lw stands at 1200

I think the steel would run forever while the LW needs to be cleaned, at least oiled, after 300 rounds to keep running.

[farscott]

For me, 9x19 1911-pattern pistols always seem to be on the edge of reliability due to magazines, recoil spring rate, lubrication, temperature, etc For example, a pistol that runs well at 80 degrees F will start to exhibit stoppages with the same lube at 40 degrees F. Or a magazine will go from feeding the first round just fine to creating a stoppage by jamming the bullet nose into the barrel ramp.

Barrel type (bushing or bull) has not exhibited a noticeable impact on reliability while the latter can introduce takedown and assembly complications. FLGRs appear to help in 9x19 1911-pattern pistols although I cannot figure out why. Perhaps the weaker 9x19 recoil spring is more susceptible to kinking. Not sure, but the guide rod seems to have an impact.

What has worked the best for me has been carbon steel finished with hard chrome or NP3 (less friction than stainless), five-inch guns from reputable companies and/or smiths. I have had to tune the recoil spring for each gun and judge it by how far it tosses the empty cases. One gun may have a 12# spring for a given round while the next has a 9# spring for the same round. I judge magazines by how well the topped off magazine feeds the first round from slide lock. I only use nine round magazines. Had good experience with Wilson and the Metalform "Springfield Ramp" in some guns while other guns prefer the Mec-Gar offerings. I keep the guns lube in hot temps with Slide Glide Lite and in cooler temps with CLP. I end up cleaning the 9x19 guns at a lower round count than .45 ACP or 9x23 examples. I have no issues with the latter rounds chewing up 750 rounds in a range session with no addition lube or cleaning. The 9x19 guns likely need cleaning anywhere from 200 rounds to 500 rounds even after adding lube during the range session.

[ccmdfd]

Don't forget the Super 38 if you are looking for a reliable, and easy to shoot 1911!

[HCM]

Yep! My copy ran great but was silly inaccurate. $1500 of Dave Sams perfection made it the finest pistol I own. HOBBY MATH :cool:

As on old Texas Ranger once told me, when you buy a new 1911 you’ve only bought “the kit.”

[45dotACP]

Have had 9mm 1911s from Colt, Kimber and Alchemy.

The Alchemy 5" is by far the finest pistol I own. The Colt Commander took a TON of work by yours truly to get the damn thing to run and group better than a 9mm M&P and the Kimber 5" was incredibly reliable and accurate after I swapped an extractor and a bushing.

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[OlongJohnson]

As on old Texas Ranger once told me, when you buy a new 1911 you’ve only bought “the kit.”

I've written here before that any new revolver is an almost-ready-to-fire kit. It's shipped assembled because it's more compact and it's a reasonably reliable way to ensure that all the parts are included.

[mmc45414]

Does anyone have thoughts/experience on reliability in this caliber?

My experience is limited to my two Rugers, one is a 5" Target with the cone barrel, the other was a 4.25 LWC with a bushing.
Both of these ran great out of the box, and I shot both of them several thousand rounds (probably more through the 5").
I used ETMs (and Brownells clones), and even though they both ran without, replaced the recoil springs with standard 9mm weight range.
The 5" ran just fine with 115g rounds, but probably would be happier with 147g.

IMO a big deal would be a ramped barrel, regardless of bushing. All modern guns that are typically considered more reliable have this feature, seems like a 1911 should have it as well.

[Elwin]

IMO a big deal would be a ramped barrel, regardless of bushing. All modern guns that are typically considered more reliable have this feature, seems like a 1911 should have it as well.

I hear this a lot but my small anecdotal experience is otherwise. The Ed Brown EVOs use a non-ramped barrel and mine hasn't had feed issues. Apparently some Springfield models work fine without too.

I could just be lucky and they may well be the better objective choice - no idea. I recall Bill Wilson and Larry Vickers both insist on a ramp in the smaller calibers and they know a bit more than I do.

I'll also add that not all bull/cone barrel and FLGR setups require tools for take down. Mine does not.

[Bergeron]

I got outbid on a Colt Commander 9mm slide. I'm most interested in the combination of a Commander slide with a "2011" frame. I'm also interested in single stack 9mm Commanders done up to be high-quality, "nice" versions of the S&W EZ line of pistols.

The potential reduced energy to cycle the slide in 4 3/4" and 4" 9mm 1911s seems smart, buuutttt, I think that modern 5" guns have demonstrated that reliability in 9mm is far, far more decided in all the traditional 1911 details (quality mags, springs, headspace, feed ramps, barrel fitment, extractor/ejector setup, etc) than in sheer size and mass of the moving parts.

[Gary1911A1]

I have several 1911s' and Commanders in 9MM. I can almost feel myself waiting for the slide to close in some of the 1911s'. I'm certain recoil spring weight has the most effect on that. I have a Ruger and Springfield Ronin Commanders in 9MM that I like to shoot. The Ruger was about ready to go out of the box except for a change to regular grip thickness and a trip to Novak's to replace the sights. The Ronin I recently purchased for my birthday. I'm going to leave the sights alone for now, but the grip safety needed a lot of sensitizing as it had to be depressed as far as it would go to allow firing. I also replaced the grips on it too. I don't like the thin grips on these. If like you say you like to tinker some I'd recommend the Springfield.

[mmc45414]

seems like a 1911 should have it as well.

I hear this a lot but my small anecdotal experience is otherwise. The Ed Brown EVOs use a non-ramped barrel and mine hasn't had feed issues. Apparently some Springfield models work fine without too.

I could just be lucky and they may well be the better objective choice - no idea. I recall Bill Wilson and Larry Vickers both insist on a ramp in the smaller calibers and they know a bit more than I do.

Yeah, my wording probably exaggerated my point, I just think it makes sense. Maybe like an external extractor, just because Kimber screwed it up doing it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. But I will admit it is just something I feels, and have no experience with conventional 9mm barrels.

I guess a better characterization of my thoughts would be that it just makes sense to not have a bullet jump from a slope on the frame onto a throat in the barrel, regardless of caliber. It can probably get away with such a transition (and always has in 45), but what value could the transition add? There is a straightforward proven solution around it.

I would be reluctant to buy a 9mm 1911 without a ramp, but my bias may come from having two that worked very well. I admit that when I bought the first one I really didn't want a 9mm 1911, I just wanted to shoot a 1911 again and wanted to continue using my bulk reloaded ammo I was stuffing in all of my striker guns and 9mm AR. And I was frankly intimidated by all of the related experience about how sketchy they are, but I bought one anyway. And even with some of my loads I maybe wouldn't be exactly proud of it chugged right along, and then I bought another one and it ran just as well. Both of them had ramps, so I guess I come by my bias honestly! :cool:

[mmc45414]

I have several 1911s' and Commanders in 9MM. I can almost feel myself waiting for the slide to close in some of the 1911s'. I'm certain recoil spring weight has the most effect on that. I have a Ruger and Springfield Ronin Commanders in 9MM that I like to shoot.
My two Rugers came with just silly light recoil springs, and it felt the same way. I had worried that they were that way for a reason, but swapped them to whatever Wolffe said was standard 9mm weights and no problem.

[Elwin]

Both of them had ramps, so I guess I come by my bias honestly! :cool:

That’s totally a thing. I’m a pretty big fan of the 4” bull barrel, FLGR, lightened slide, and external extractor setup present on Wilson and Brown guns designed from ground up for 9mm just because I have one that works. Enough so that absent a once in a lifetime commissioning of a full custom from the guys who can make anything work right, I’m probably not buying anything that strays too far from that configuration. Because I trust it. Subjectively.

[theJanitor]

I don't know what DOESN'T work. But I have experience with a 4" wilson 1911, and a 4" wilson EDC X-9. They were both awesome pistols and if I were to get another for myself, I'd stick with that 4" bushingless configuration.

[SecondsCount]

I like the slide velocity of a 4.25" 9mm over a 5", only because the extra slide mass of the 5" made the pistol feel sluggish if you don't play with spring tuning.

That said, I have a 5" DW Valor and a 5" Springfield Loaded and they have been very reliable. My former spouse had a 4.25" custom that ran amazing. The only ammo it didn't like was the Federal HST but ate 124 +P Gold Dots like candy.

One thing that has been a nuisance for me is how the 9mm mags hold the top round. There have been several occasions where the round wanted to pop out the top when doing a reload, while carrying, etc.

[DDTSGM]

I'm kind of new to the 1911 9mm pistol. What I know I've learned by building mine under the tutelage of Bob Marvel and putting right at 1500 rounds (currently) through it.

Mine is a stainless frame, carbon slide, 5 inch govt, with a Kart barrel.

First of all, I think you want to make sure whatever you buy has a ramped barrel. My frame is cut for a Nowlin ramped barrel. After all is said and done it feeds empty cases.

For magazines, I have a dozen Brownell's magazines: https://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazines/1911-9mm-magazines-prod84195.aspx

They are currently out of stock, but they run $26.00 a piece and have worked flawlessly. I shoot action pistol and they are loaded with seven rounds, twelve mags loaded gets me through two stages, so they all had pretty much over a hundred rounds run through them.

Ammo run through them has been ARMSCOR 124gr FMJ and my RMR 124gr JHP's loaded to 1.073 -1.078 OAL and 1,029 FPS average, as well as several mags of 124gr HST (just in case - this is primarily a range pistol).

The only problems I've had with the pistol have been due to me not reliving the grips enough to let the safety fully disengage, which was quickly fixed after the frustration of diagnosing the problem. Other than that, no problems.

So, I feel I can heartily recommend the Brownell's mags for training, if not carry. You can never have too many mags. I bought some, then bought more when they worked.

I've been wanting to try MecGars, but haven't found any in stock, so I think I'll stick with Brownell's

I've already got some Chip McCormick Range Pro's on notify me at a couple of places - after I make sure they work I plan on getting a couple to set aside for carry.

[mmc45414]

So, I feel I can heartily recommend the Brownell's mags for training, if not carry.
I had 6-10 of them and several of them didn't like to drop free from either of the Rugers (and Wilson ETMs do). They all functioned great. Probably just a bit of a dimension variation with the Rugers, but just running it up the flagpole.

[DDTSGM]

I had 6-10 of them and several of them didn't like to drop free from either of the Rugers (and Wilson ETMs do). They all functioned great. Probably just a bit of a dimension variation with the Rugers, but just running it up the flagpole.

That's good to know.

I'm glad they work in mine - it's better to have $300.00 in range mags than $500.00.

I use Chip McCormick Power Mags almost exclusively in my .45's, primarily 10 rounders, although I have enough 8 round ones for carry. I'm hopeful that the 9mm Range Pro's are reliable in my 9mm.

This isn't the last 9mm I'm going to build. I've got several kids and grandkids I'd like to gift them to. It may take a while, though. At retail I have just under $1,800,00 in parts in this one. I need to get an FFL or figure out a way to get good guy pricing.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I have three 9mm 1911's and all of them are Dan Wesson's. My government length Specialist, commander length Valor and TCP are all solid. In my experience, the most important aspect of 1911 functionality is magazines. I use Wilson ETM's for my 9mm 1911's and no issues with either of the three I own.

[Rock185]

TDoor, I've had several 5" 9mm 1911s since the '70s, i.e., Colts, then Kimbers, Springfields, an STI, Dan Wessons, etc. Overall, the guns with the integrally ramped barrels, that most manufacturers use for their 9mm 1911s now days, were the most reliable. I've had both regular bushing barrel and bull barrel/bushingless 9mms. No difference that I could detect in accuracy and reliability. I do like the slightly muzzle heavy feel of of the bull barreled guns. Yes, the full weight 9mm 1911 slides tend to cycle a bit slower than with guns chambered for the more powerful cartridges. But the upside is that the most energetic 9mm ammunition recoils less than standard .45 ACP 230 grain ball ammo. Over many years, I came to favor the Metalform front ramp design 9-round magazines for the guns chambered in 9mm.

As to reliability, my Kimbers, an STI, Dan Wessons and two custom Springfield 9mms were as reliable as my guns chambered for the "proper" .45 ACP cartridge.

[mmc45414]

That's good to know.
And it could have been just a batch, though I think I did send one three pack back and one of the replacements also was sticky. This was a few years ago, maybe things have evolved. I ended up buying some (maybe here) used ETMs to go with the ones I had accumulated and quit pursuing the Brownells mags and sold them to a friend. OTOH the Colt/Uzi pattern 9mm AR mags I bought from them have been awesome.


This isn't the last 9mm I'm going to build. I've got several kids and grandkids I'd like to gift them to.
Whose slide and frame did you buy? Am curious myself because I think that might be my wintertime retirement project in a few years, since I bought an RL1100 and probably at this point do not need to assemble any more ARs... :cool:

[awp_101]

What about the STI LS9? Anyone have any feedback on them?

91517

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

Myself and two other PF members had problematic SA Combat Operators in 9mm. Myself and one other member sent them back to SA for warranty work and eventually got rid of them be use they still weren’t “right.” JHC sent his off to a gunsmith and spent nearly the cost of the pistol making it “right.”

Re: DW, If I recall correctly the factory specifically recommends a 500 round break in.

Good data points - I had not heard that about other SA Combat Operators. That’s too bad as I like where that pistols sits on the price : features : quality spectrum.

Exactly right - the DW manual notes a 500 rd break in. My dad’s specialist required the same.


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[HCM]

Good data points - I had not heard that about other SA Combat Operators. That’s too bad as I like where that pistols sits on the price : features : quality spectrum.

Exactly right - the DW manual notes a 500 rd break in. My dad’s specialist required the same.


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SACS was, at least at that time having QC/consistency issues.

Both the Combat operators and the Warren Operators in 9mm had batches with multiple problems and batches with no problems. The three problematic COs we’re all bought around the same time.

[DDTSGM]

Whose slide and frame did you buy? Am curious myself because I think that might be my wintertime retirement project in a few years, since I bought an RL1100 and probably at this point do not need to assemble any more ARs... :cool:

https://www.jemguns.com/1911-Government-Frame_p_15.html

https://www.jemguns.com/Slide-Government-Carbon-Steel-_p_51.html

I took the class from Bob Marvel who helped start NightHawk Customs. IIRC he had switched from NH frames because they did not have enough available for folks attending the classes to buy.

I'm pretty sure my next one will be a no-logo Caspian frame and slide because they have a $65.00 serial number option.

[awp_101]

Does JEM not offer a custom serial option anymore?

[Robinson]

I own a Wilson Combat ACP 9mm Commander. It is a very nicely built pistol and a really good shooter. However, it does not always load the first round from the magazine into the chamber and go all the way into battery when using the slide release. It always works when sling-shotting the slide. I prefer to use the slide release, so it's a bit of a problem. It is equipped with a 12# recoil spring, which should be just right for a 9mm Commander.

It will get sorted out and turn into an ultimately reliable pistol I have no doubt. But in the meantime I sit here thinking about how my Colt and Springfield Armory Government Model 45s just run and run and run...

[mmc45414]

I'm pretty sure my next one will be a no-logo Caspian frame and slide because they have a $65.00 serial number option.

I also have wondered about the ones from Fusion, wonder if all of these probably originate from the same die someplace.

[SecondsCount]

My experience with Caspian about 15 years ago was mediocre. There was a lot more finishing required than I expected. I bought a Fusion frame around 2008 when they were just getting started and was much more impressed. Two years ago I bought a Nighthawk frame and they do an excellent job.

[DDTSGM]

Does JEM not offer a custom serial option anymore?

Not on their website, I didn't ask.

If I understood correctly, Elliott's father has had severe health problems, and Elliott is having to do just about everything in the interim. That may be why it wasn't available.

If they do, I'll probably go with them. Their 20 LPI front straps are less expensive than most anyone's I've looked at.

[Bucky]

I own a Wilson Combat ACP 9mm Commander. It is a very nicely built pistol and a really good shooter. However, it does not always load the first round from the magazine into the chamber and go all the way into battery when using the slide release. It always works when sling-shotting the slide. I prefer to use the slide release, so it's a bit of a problem. It is equipped with a 12# recoil spring, which should be just right for a 9mm Commander.
...

To me, this has been the most prevalent issue with 9mm 1991s. And since I was originally using them for IDPA, it was even more problematic. Between the tapered round and oversized (for 9mm) magazine, the round wants to nose dive. The thing that worked best for me was the pre-Wilson CMC magazines, with the spacer in the front. Unfortunately, these aren’t made anymore.

[JTQ]

The thing that worked best for me was the pre-Wilson CMC magazines, with the spacer in the front. Unfortunately, these aren’t made anymore.
I didn't know McCormick had a front spacer mag.

I thought the front spacer mags were unique to Metalform https://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazines/1911-springfield-style-9rd-9mm-magazines-prod20448.aspx

[HeavyDuty]

What do we think about Wilson 9mm ETM magazines? I’m a long time Wilson magazine user in .45, but I’ve never owned a 9mm 1911.

[JTQ]

What do we think about Wilson 9mm ETM magazines? I’m a long time Wilson magazine user in .45, but I’ve never owned a 9mm 1911.
It was the mag TLG settled on during his 1911 endurance test

https://pistol-training.com/category/range-reports/springfield-1911-9mm/

[Evil_Ed]

The problem with the Wilson ETMs, is depending on a few factors they might contact the underside of the ejector when slamming it home. It depends on the ejector length and basepad...but, if you buy some ETMs, it's worth taking your slide off and seating the mag and seeing if there's clearance when the mag is just seated in the magwell, and when you're pushing up on the seated mag, as you'd be doing if you were seating it in a slide lock reload. If it makes contact, or gets close enough where a hard seat might make it contact...either relegate the mag for informal and non-rushed practice only, or move it on - if you keep using it and slam it home into the ejector a bunch, it'll either bend the ejector (which will hinder the slide) or break the ejector (which will hinder just about everything else).

[HeavyDuty]

The problem with the Wilson ETMs, is depending on a few factors they might contact the underside of the ejector when slamming it home. It depends on the ejector length and basepad...but, if you buy some ETMs, it's worth taking your slide off and seating the mag and seeing if there's clearance when the mag is just seated in the magwell, and when you're pushing up on the seated mag, as you'd be doing if you were seating it in a slide lock reload. If it makes contact, or gets close enough where a hard seat might make it contact...either relegate the mag for informal and non-rushed practice only, or move it on - if you keep using it and slam it home into the ejector a bunch, it'll either bend the ejector (which will hinder the slide) or break the ejector (which will hinder just about everything else).

Great info - thanks!

[Elwin]

Great info - thanks!

They also don't come in a flush fit format, so if you're running a non-magwell gun and want a flush mag for concealment, you'll have to vet a second style of mag. Not a huge deal, but my solution was to settle on Ed Brown's rebranded Checkmate mags and run them with the included basepads for carry reloads and range mags and without them for primary carry mags. I do have a couple ETMs for running drills that require multiple strings of 10 in the gun (exe. the advanced super test), but I only had to put in the effort and expensive carry ammo to vet one style of carry mag.

That and Ed Brown mags are cheap. If they work in your gun, they're a great range mag option. Shoot them a lot, wear them out, then trade them back to Brown for $10 replacements and repeat.

[awp_101]

Not on their website, I didn't ask.

If I understood correctly, Elliott's father has had severe health problems, and Elliott is having to do just about everything in the interim. That may be why it wasn't available.

If they do, I'll probably go with them. Their 20 LPI front straps are less expensive than most anyone's I've looked at.
True, Ed’s had problems for the past couple of years but I believe he’s on the way to getting the most serious stuff fixed. I really want a build on one of their frame and slide sets because of the Texas connection and an extended family connection.

It might be worth a call as a repeat customer to see if it’s still available.

[HeavyDuty]

They also don't come in a flush fit format, so if you're running a non-magwell gun and want a flush mag for concealment, you'll have to vet a second style of mag. Not a huge deal, but my solution was to settle on Ed Brown's rebranded Checkmate mags and run them with the included basepads for carry reloads and range mags and without them for primary carry mags. I do have a couple ETMs for running drills that require multiple strings of 10 in the gun (exe. the advanced super test), but I only had to put in the effort and expensive carry ammo to vet one style of carry mag.

That and Ed Brown mags are cheap. If they work in your gun, they're a great range mag option. Shoot them a lot, wear them out, then trade them back to Brown for $10 replacements and repeat.

I was just looking on Wilson’s website, and noticed they didn’t have a near flush 9mm option that is similar to the 47DCs I like in .45. I reached out to them to see what is close to that size, since this would be for a pistol without a magwell.

Ed Brown is definitely an option. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Elwin]

I was just looking on Wilson’s website, and noticed they didn’t have a near flush 9mm option that is similar to the 47DCs I like in .45. I reached out to them to see what is close to that size, since this would be for a pistol without a magwell.

Ed Brown is definitely an option. Thanks for the suggestion!

For some bizarre reason they have exactly what you're looking for in 9mm... as an Officer's frame 8rd option. They also have an Officer's 9rd that's a shrunk down ETM and an Officers 10rd that's like a shrunk down 10rd .45 mag. Only extended 10rd options for the full size 9mm, though, except for this flush fit mag that isn't an ETM variety. It may be great, but I've literally never seen any discussion of it and it's clearly not an ETM tube so you're back to a different format to get the flush fit. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/MAGAZINE-1911-9MM-FULL-SIZE-9-ROUND-920-SERIES-STAINLESS/productinfo/920-9FS9/

[mmc45414]

break the ejector (which will hinder just about everything else).
Didn't the ejector break in the TLG pistol and it kept running? Not saying that like it is a good thing, but all of the 9mm/38S ejectors are extended from the 1911 45. I think a couple of mine will touch the ejector a bit.


I was just looking on Wilson’s website, and noticed they didn’t have a near flush 9mm option that is similar to the 47DCs I like in .45. I reached out to them to see what is close to that size, since this would be for a pistol without a magwell.

Only extended 10rd options for the full size 9mm, though, except for this flush fit mag that isn't an ETM variety.

But I think they do have this obscure low profile baseplate (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BASE-PAD-ETM-LO-PROFILE-9MM-STEEL-BLACK/productinfo/500BLP9/) as an accessory. Not exactly what you want but not as clunky as the big one.

91544

[Elwin]

But I think they do have this obscure low profile baseplate (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BASE-PAD-ETM-LO-PROFILE-9MM-STEEL-BLACK/productinfo/500BLP9/) as an accessory. Not exactly what you want but not as clunky as the big one.


Definitely an improvement compared to the thick plastic basepad. I actually have the .45 versions of that exact mag (catalog no. 500C I think) as reload carry mags for the other 1911, and they are by far my favorite mags for that purpose, paired with a steel basepad 47 like Heavy Duty likes in the gun. It's just still a 10rd (.45 8rd) length tube. Another upside to these is that the steel basepad doesn't get cut into by particularly sharp checkered front straps, which can cause the ejector* impact problem to happen in guns where the clearance was fine while the basepad was intact and preventing overtravel.

*edited because I don't know the difference between extractors and ejectors.

[mmc45414]

Definitely an improvement compared to the thick plastic basepad. I actually have the .45 versions of that exact mag (catalog no. 500C I think) as reload carry mags for the other 1911, and they are by far my favorite mags for that purpose, paired with a steel basepad 47 like Heavy Duty likes in the gun.
Pretty sure I have the same thing, because even though I tend to carry IWB-3:00 I still do a mag pouch in AIWB, and those big baseplates poke me in my soft girly-man belly. I also put one on a 47 for a 45 without a magwell, and it was a very clean deal on a gun with thin grips.

For the last several years I have been back to strikers but this thread is making me homesick... :cool:

[HeavyDuty]

But I think they do have this obscure low profile baseplate (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BASE-PAD-ETM-LO-PROFILE-9MM-STEEL-BLACK/productinfo/500BLP9/) as an accessory. Not exactly what you want but not as clunky as the big one.

91544

That may be my solution. Thank you!

[Elwin]

Pretty sure I have the same thing, because even though I tend to carry IWB-3:00 I still do a mag pouch in AIWB, and those big baseplates poke me in my soft girly-man belly. I also put one on a 47 for a 45 without a magwell, and it was a very clean deal on a gun with thin grips.

For the last several years I have been back to strikers but this thread is making me homesick... :cool:

I have everything AIWB and I found I needed to knock down some of the sharper corners on the steel basepads, but once I did they were just fine. The plastic bumper pads on the Ed Brown/Checkmate mags are very comfy though. And generally the whole setup is pretty comfortable because everything is thin.

[mmc45414]

That may be my solution. Thank you!

I spent some time a few years ago obsessing over all that stuff :cool:

[HeavyDuty]

I spent some time a few years ago obsessing over all that stuff :cool:

I’m glad you did - I just ordered four magazines and those baseplates to try.

[gc70]

Keeping things basic has worked for me. I cannot remember ever having a problem with either of my Colt O-1992 Government Model 9mm pistols using standard OEM or Metalform 9-round magazines. My son has not been as lucky; he experienced endless problems with a Commander-sized Ruger and a Springfield EMP.

91557

[Robinson]

To me, this has been the most prevalent issue with 9mm 1991s. And since I was originally using them for IDPA, it was even more problematic. Between the tapered round and oversized (for 9mm) magazine, the round wants to nose dive. The thing that worked best for me was the pre-Wilson CMC magazines, with the spacer in the front. Unfortunately, these aren’t made anymore.

In this case it turned out to be a simple matter of a little too much extractor tension.

[Shorikid]

Didn't the ejector break in the TLG pistol and it kept running? Not saying that like it is a good thing, but all of the 9mm/38S ejectors are extended from the 1911 45. I think a couple of mine will touch the ejector a bit.




But I think they do have this obscure low profile baseplate (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BASE-PAD-ETM-LO-PROFILE-9MM-STEEL-BLACK/productinfo/500BLP9/) as an accessory. Not exactly what you want but not as clunky as the big one.

91544You can always release the bottom of the ejector to clear the magazine when fully inserted. Still plenty of meat to get the job done getting the 9mm case clear of the gun.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

This just popped up in my email (no affiliation):
https://fusionfirearms.com/1911-full-size-mec-gar-mag-9mm-9-round-black

[DDTSGM]

This just popped up in my email (no affiliation):
https://fusionfirearms.com/1911-full-size-mec-gar-mag-9mm-9-round-black

Dang my wife is going to go crazy when the CC bill gets here.

[mmc45414]

Dang my wife is going to go crazy when the CC bill gets here.

A friend of mine used to universally say to her "It was such a deal!"
And when I say "used to", I mean pretty sure he isn't married to her any more... :cool:

ETA: For example, when he bought an outboard motor at a garage sale, and they didn't have a boat: "It was such a deal!"

[awp_101]

Dang my wife is going to go crazy when the CC bill gets here.
Easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission...


A friend of mine used to universally say to her "It was such a deal!"
And when I say "used to", I mean pretty sure he isn't married to her any more... :cool:

ETA: For example, when he bought an outboard motor at a garage sale, and they didn't have a boat: "It was such a deal!"
The male corollary to "They were having a sale! The more I bought, the more we saved!".

[Evil_Ed]

I mean, honestly...Colt did a good bit of engineering and work into making a 1911 in 9mm back in the late 1940s. Just like Jack Northrop and his Flying Wing...just because the math happened back then, doesn't mean it's not applicable now. If you take a today-made Colt 1911 Commander in 9mm back to 1948, they're gonna go "Yeah, so?" ...they might get a little more excited about modern magazines though. (assuming a non-ramped gun, that is)

A 4.25" Commander sized gun in 9mm is the prototypical 9mm 1911, pretty literally. It'll work, it's designed to. Now, getting things to feed it...that's where todays' puzzle lies :D

[Robinson]

I mean, honestly...Colt did a good bit of engineering and work into making a 1911 in 9mm back in the late 1940s. Just like Jack Northrop and his Flying Wing...just because the math happened back then, doesn't mean it's not applicable now. If you take a today-made Colt 1911 Commander in 9mm back to 1948, they're gonna go "Yeah, so?" ...they might get a little more excited about modern magazines though. (assuming a non-ramped gun, that is)

A 4.25" Commander sized gun in 9mm is the prototypical 9mm 1911, pretty literally. It'll work, it's designed to. Now, getting things to feed it...that's where todays' puzzle lies :D

Yes. Though I would add extractor shape and tension to the puzzle with magazines, especially based on recent experience. My Wilson Combat 9mm Commander runs great now that I've got the extractor tension squared away. But then, to your point, that was true in the '40s too.

[gato naranja]

Easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission...


The male corollary to "They were having a sale! The more I bought, the more we saved!".

If you are over 55 and still married, adding "And besides- this thing will outlast me!" will not be of any benefit.

-

If I were to encapsulate all my thoughts on 9mm 1911's, it would boil down to this: they are not a great deal different to operate compared to trad .22 auto pistols, are also alike in ammo/magazine temperament. You can luck into a good one at a reasonable price or be stuck with a lemon; you can also spend a great deal of money on one that ends up either worth every penny or turns out to be a diva that you end up dumping and saying "good riddance." They are easy to customize and accessorize up to a certain point, after which a cottage industry of good (and bad) gunsmiths will happily indulge you.

As with so many things, changing one variable at a time works wonders. Ramped barrels, better magazine choices and and a good supply of high-quality small components make sorting through those variables easier than it was back in the day.

Having found my own 9mm 1911 equivalent of a comfy reclining chair, I am now pretty much done looking for any greener pastures in that line. It's a decent range toy that shoots better than I can see, and it doubles as a slightly updated equivalent of a 1960's "good gun" belonging to a man of limited means. Buying and exploring them has been fun and educational/entertaining, but all save that special one will be de-acquisitioned to finance DA/SA's that I might actually carry once in a while rather than store in a safe for the inevitable estate sale.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve admired one of the 5” Ruger 9mms for years now (target sights, bull barrel - model 6759) but I’ve always worried about reliable function. It sounds like getting one to run may not be as bad as I feared.

[mmc45414]

I’ve admired one of the 5” Ruger 9mms for years now (target sights, bull barrel - model 6759) but I’ve always worried about reliable function. It sounds like getting one to run may not be as bad as I feared.

With mine "getting it to work" involved loading my reloaded ammo into my ETMs. Seriously, I shot it weekly (~75 rounds) for at least two years and to the best of my recollection it failed to extract once. This with my reloaded ammo that is loaded from whatever casings I pick up off the ground and manage to fit into the case holder, so maybe the ammo is not blameless.

91608

I did switch to a more normal weight recoil spring. I added the Fusion mag well and the Dawson sights, it is the Kimber pattern rear sight, but unfortunately I think they discontinued the FO rear.

91609

[HeavyDuty]

With mine "getting it to work" involved loading my reloaded ammo into my ETMs. Seriously, I shot it weekly (~75 rounds) for at least two years and to the best of my recollection it failed to extract once. This with my reloaded ammo that is loaded from whatever casings I pick up off the ground and manage to fit into the case holder, so maybe the ammo is not blameless.

91608

I did switch to a more normal weight recoil spring. I added the Fusion mag well and the Dawson sights, it is the Kimber pattern rear sight, but unfortunately I think they discontinued the FO rear.

91609

Ooooh. I can see that as being a good range and casual game gun. Nowhere to be found right now, though - I’ll keep an eye in stores.

[mmc45414]

Ooooh. I can see that as being a good range and casual game gun.
My Sunday routine is to gather with a group of friends I have known for 40+ years and run informal scenarios against the timer. Nobody wins anything so a fella is free to show up with a Staccato or a Colt Police Positive, and this was my steady date for a couple years. Also did a little Steel Challenge and a couple of indoor USPSA matches.


Nowhere to be found right now, though - I’ll keep an eye in stores.
When I am on the prowl I set my www browser to open a tab with a Wikiarms search (https://www.wikiarms.com/guns?source=&q=736676067596&suggestion=6759) every time it is launched... :cool:

[CSW]

Does anyone have thoughts/experience on reliability in this caliber?
Hello OP:

I've been running a Springfield range officer elite champion 9mm for close to three years now.
It's the commander sized weapon, with a 4 inch bull barrel, no bushing.
I'm close to 3000 rounds thru it by my estimation, and it runs fine.
Clarification tho;
It would not run for shit with the Springfield magazines. Ed Brown mags run perfectly.
I changed the rear sight to a 10-8 u notch.
That's the only thing I have done to it.
The recoil is almost nothing. The bull/bushingless barrel does not seem to be an issue at all.
It's digested everything without issues, but had feed issues with the factory mags and 1 Wilson. It carries well in the Tenicor Certum 3.

The only thing I was alarmed by was how fast the Black T finish wore off the muzzle. Talking to Springfield, they explained that Black T also treats the metal as well, like Tennifer, but would strip and ceracote the gun for me gratis if I wanted. I chose to leave it.
Unfortunately, Springfield discontinued the RO series, but from what I have read and heard, the Ronin series seems to be just as serviceable.

[DDTSGM]

I added the Fusion mag well and the Dawson sights, it is the Kimber pattern rear sight, but unfortunately I think they discontinued the FO rear

IIRC I had to call them about the Kimber F/O rear - I have one on mine.

Additionally, I shipped my 320 Legion rear sight to Dawson and they installed FO's in it. Might be something to keep in mind for future reference.

When dealing with Dawson, I've found that if they don't show what you want, it's a good idea to call. The only thing they let me down on was an adjustable FO rear for my CZ75BSA, I ended up sending it to Cajun Gunworks.

[mmc45414]

IIRC I had to call them about the Kimber F/O rear - I have one on mine.
There is a dude named Jay (?) that was very helpful. It took 2-3 tries to figure out it was not Bomar and not LPA, it was Kimber.
The only reason I think it is not an item anymore is I was going to link it in another thread (1911 but not 45?) and in my order history the link said no longer available.


Additionally, I shipped my 320 Legion rear sight to Dawson and they installed FO's in it. Might be something to keep in mind for future reference.
Good to know, maybe they would do it for a special request, just not a mouse click anymore.

[Elwin]

Additionally, I shipped my 320 Legion rear sight to Dawson and they installed FO's in it. Might be something to keep in mind for future reference.

To contribute to the thread drift, any idea if they’d do the same and instal tritium vials? I know the answer is probably “call them” but I figured I’d ask. I keep thinking about TLG’s strong opinion regarding 3 dot night sights and the possibility of putting lamps in the rear of my EVO 1911 (sight is proprietary and doesn’t come in a night sight option).

[mmc45414]

To contribute to the thread drift, any idea if they’d do the same and install tritium vials? I know the answer is probably “call them” but I figured I’d ask. I keep thinking about TLG’s strong opinion regarding 3 dot night sights and the possibility of putting lamps in the rear of my EVO 1911 (sight is proprietary and doesn’t come in a night sight option).
I think it is a definite maybe! :cool:
If the guy named Jay answers the phone he is a very helpful guy.

[TOTS]

That is every gun for me, from every manufacturer so far. There is no such thing as out of the box to the firing line.
You, Sir, have horrible luck. Every one of the guns I have purchased (admittedly low in number) have been reliable box-to-range. I stick to names like SIG, Colt, Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, etc.

As on old Texas Ranger once told me, when you buy a new 1911 you’ve only bought “the kit.”

Again, I must respectfully disagree. ALL of the 1911s I have purchased have been reliable from day 1; and the Dan Wesson 5in 9mm steel frame did NOT need any break in. It’s actually statistically more reliable than both the SIG and Glocks that I have. OG 5 inch Springfield Range Officer in .45, Colt Wiley Clapp 5 inch in .45, DW 5 inch in 9mm, SIG P938 3 inch in, 9mm. Probably less than 10 malfunctions in a cumulative 10K rnds amongst them.

The 9mm DW (my usual shooter) eats my reloads as well as 124 HST and Gold Dots, 115 bulk, and 124 Nato reliably. 95% of its diet is my 124 reloads and Nato. No issues with any of the (5) Wilson ETMs over 6 years. Of the (2) Checkmate mags that came with it, ones good and the front strap checkering bites into the other ones baseplate, causing it to hang up. As soon as one comes from the factory optics ready for a decent price, I’m getting a ltwt commander size for carry.

[45dotACP]

You, Sir, have horrible luck. Every one of the guns I have purchased (admittedly low in number) have been reliable box-to-range. I stick to names like SIG, Colt, Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, etc.


Again, I must respectfully disagree. ALL of the 1911s I have purchased have been reliable from day 1; and the Dan Wesson 5in 9mm steel frame did NOT need any break in. It’s actually statistically more reliable than both the SIG and Glocks that I have. OG 5 inch Springfield Range Officer in .45, Colt Wiley Clapp 5 inch in .45, DW 5 inch in 9mm, SIG P938 3 inch in, 9mm. Probably less than 10 malfunctions in a cumulative 10K rnds amongst them.

The 9mm DW (my usual shooter) eats my reloads as well as 124 HST and Gold Dots, 115 bulk, and 124 Nato reliably. 95% of its diet is my 124 reloads and Nato. No issues with any of the (5) Wilson ETMs over 6 years. Of the (2) Checkmate mags that came with it, ones good and the front strap checkering bites into the other ones baseplate, causing it to hang up. As soon as one comes from the factory optics ready for a decent price, I’m getting a ltwt commander size for carry.My experience in most 1911s is that precious few have been reliable for me right from the box. That includes RRA, Springfield, Kimber and Colt. The only exception to this has been my ACW prime which...well yeah it had better be.

Colt was the worst for me. But I was a silly person and went through the process of building two 1911s from parts before buying that monstrosity, so I was able to make it work work some judicious tinkering.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[HCM]

You, Sir, have horrible luck. Every one of the guns I have purchased (admittedly low in number) have been reliable box-to-range. I stick to names like SIG, Colt, Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, etc.


Again, I must respectfully disagree. ALL of the 1911s I have purchased have been reliable from day 1; and the Dan Wesson 5in 9mm steel frame did NOT need any break in. It’s actually statistically more reliable than both the SIG and Glocks that I have. OG 5 inch Springfield Range Officer in .45, Colt Wiley Clapp 5 inch in .45, DW 5 inch in 9mm, SIG P938 3 inch in, 9mm. Probably less than 10 malfunctions in a cumulative 10K rnds amongst them.

The 9mm DW (my usual shooter) eats my reloads as well as 124 HST and Gold Dots, 115 bulk, and 124 Nato reliably. 95% of its diet is my 124 reloads and Nato. No issues with any of the (5) Wilson ETMs over 6 years. Of the (2) Checkmate mags that came with it, ones good and the front strap checkering bites into the other ones baseplate, causing it to hang up. As soon as one comes from the factory optics ready for a decent price, I’m getting a ltwt commander size for carry.

You can disagree all you want but in 30 years of shooting 1911s that is not my experience below a certain price point. The point was held by Les Baer but has since passed on to Dan Wesson.

My Dan Wesson valor was fine out of the box.

2/3 Les Baers (both 5” 45s) ran out of the box. The problematic one was a 4.25” “Comanche”

50/50 with Springfields.

Most of my Colts have run hardball out of the box but have subsequently needed repairs or mods to address various issues. My Wiley Clapp Govt’s slide stop pin broke at a fairly low round count locking up the gun. It took Colt 5 months to turn it around.

I’ve had 1 Kimber out of 5 that ran properly out of the box. All 5” guns. Ironically it was a 5” stainless 9mm that ran both ball and gold dots.

My Gun Crafters 5” 9mm has run well but it should given it’s price point.

[OlongJohnson]

You, Sir, have horrible luck. Every one of the guns I have purchased (admittedly low in number) have been reliable box-to-range. I stick to names like SIG, Colt, Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, etc.

It's been described as a superpower. I have many, many times walked up to a pallet of parts, randomly picked one up to look at it, and it turns out to be the defective one. Or the one that makes it past QC goes to my customer. Or when Sig recalled MCXs for triggers that might go full-auto, I was in the range where Sig's own demo unit started doing really fast mag dumps in the hands of the public. Not involved. Hadn't touched it, wasn't signed up to touch it, but at the other end of the line, I heard the giggles. Logically, I had nothing to do with it. But my buddy who ran the manufacturing where I used to work said the defect coming to the surface had to have something to do with me being there.

That said, it's not all reactive, it's more about being proactive. There are lots of guns out there that will run and be reliable out of the box, but due to the presence of burrs and rough surfaces, will wear themselves at a greater than necessary rate, regardless of lubrication. (Some just straight up eat themselves). By simply cleaning up the burrs and roughness, not only are they made to operate much more smoothly and with less effort, but with massively lower wear rates, enabling them to last far longer. I've found enough defects and opportunities for improvement on enough guns with price points from low to high that I'm just not confident running one that hasn't been gone through by a competent person outside the factory. Some of the most spectacular, self-munching defects have been on Sigs and S&Ws that I owned, FWIW.

[Robinson]

91608

I won't clutter up the thread, but PIB brings back memories from when I lived in Ohio.

[mmc45414]

I won't clutter up the thread, but PIB brings back memories from when I lived in Ohio.
I will admit I typically choose the top of my converted freezer beer cooler with that decal to take gun photographs :cool:

[HeavyDuty]

That may be my solution. Thank you!

Nope. The 500 magazine is extended enough that the stock polymer baseplate is cleaner, it’s not near flush like the 47 series in .45.

[HeavyDuty]

This just popped up in my email (no affiliation):
https://fusionfirearms.com/1911-full-size-mec-gar-mag-9mm-9-round-black

I’m still looking for a few flush magazines. Has anyone tried these with good results? I know they’re Mec-Gar, but…

[Robinson]

I’m still looking for a few flush magazines. Has anyone tried these with good results? I know they’re Mec-Gar, but…

Heck for that price I think I'll order a few and try them.

[mmc45414]

I’m still looking for a few flush magazines. Has anyone tried these with good results?

Dang my wife is going to go crazy when the CC bill gets here.
Dan inferred he bought some...


Heck for that price I think I'll order a few and try them.
Does seem like a smoking deal.


Nope. The 500 magazine is extended enough that the stock polymer baseplate is cleaner, it’s not near flush like the 47 series in .45.
I used mine as a reload mag, that basepad makes it nice with an AIWB mag pouch.

[CSW]

No issues with the EB mags.
They come sans baseplate, but include a short and tall pad, and screws for each.

[SecondsCount]

I’m still looking for a few flush magazines. Has anyone tried these with good results? I know they’re Mec-Gar, but…

I've run them in 9mm 1911s for years. The springs are a little soft but they always worked.

[HeavyDuty]

At the price of the Mec-Gars, it’s worth a try. Two loadouts ordered. Thanks!

[HeavyDuty]

The 9mm Mec-Gars are here, they are bulk packed but brand new. One issue I didn’t expect - they are not drilled for base pads. Has anyone seen drilling or center punching jigs? I had a drilling jig many years ago, but it’s probably long gone.

I may just go with glue ons.

[mmc45414]

I had a drilling jig many years ago, but it’s probably long gone
I think those came with the Pachmayr pads, not sure if the still do.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[HeavyDuty]

There’s one on eBay right now, but glue on is starting to appeal. I remember the hell of trying to cleanly drill for the pads.

[SecondsCount]

I drilled a few years a go and used self tapping screws, pretty sure the method I used was double faced tape on the pad and used the holes as a guide.

[CSW]

Off the original topic, and not trying to start a drift, but has anyone had their slide milled to accept an RMR on a 1911?

[CSW]

Need pads Ken?
Pm me.

[Borderland]

I've never owned a 9mm 1911 but I had a Colt 38 Super that ran just fine without any help. As far as 1911's go, I've had four Colts and never had any issues with any of them. I only have one I shoot anymore (older Gold Cup Trophy) that has worked flawlessly after about 5K rounds. Probably lucky.

If I were to buy a new one I would just spend the bucks for semi-custom like a Wilson or Baer. I think production 1911's can be problematic but I've never experienced that with Colt and ball ammo. That isn't what most people will use exclusively however. I've never carried a 1911 except for short hikes in the desert, OC in a shoulder holster. I had that as a trailer/camp pistol one year when we spent the winter in AZ. I moved to a compact DA/SA 9mm for carry so now a 1911 is just a range pistol.

[DDTSGM]

I’m still looking for a few flush magazines. Has anyone tried these with good results? I know they’re Mec-Gar, but…


Dan inferred he bought some...

Just saw this. I bought three. Two of them had holes in the base plates for base pads, the other didn't. The one with no holes in the base also had three dimples running up the rear on the sides of the body, apparently to hold in the rear spacer. The other two didn't have these dimple. The one with the dimples had a depper 'oily' blued finish compared to the other two. Kimber base pads (bought on Amazon) fit the two that had base pad holes. The floor plates are welded, so truly a disposable mag. Mec-Gar says they are made of carbon steel.

Visual comparison to the Brownell's mags indicates the followers ar4e the same.

I haven't live-fired these yet. Last week our range clubhouse burnt to the ground and the powers that be closed the pistol side of the range to us serfs.

I did function test them for you, though. I used ST dummies, my bulk 124gr JHP's and 124gr HST's. I tried to approximate a string of fire, feed and chamber on partially loaded mags, feed and chamber on picked up ejected mags. I used 5 rounds because to my knowledge beyond four rounds loade doesn't change the angle of the first round.

String: loaded mag with five into pistol - hand cycled as rapidly as possible ejecting and feeding rounds.

Feed and Chamber: loaded mag with five, locked slide to rear and chambered, removed mag, repositioned top round, locked slide to rear and repeated.

Feed and Chamber Picked Up Mag: loaded mag with five, locked slide to rear and chambered, removed mag, DID NOT REPOSITION TOP ROUND, locked slide to rear and repeated.

All mags worked flawlessly, dropped free easily and inserted smoothly.

At this point, though, I'm sold on the Brownell's as they are cleanable and rebuildable, are made from stainless steel, and have a corrosion proof, friction reducing coating called 'Xylan'. The bas pad is not that obtrusive IMO.

Picture:

92272

Left: Mec-Gar w/bumper Center: Mec-Gar w/dimples Right: Brownells

[HeavyDuty]

Just saw this. I bought three. Two of them had holes in the base plates for base pads, the other didn't. The one with no holes in the base also had three dimples running up the rear on the sides of the body, apparently to hold in the rear spacer. The other two didn't have these dimple. The one with the dimples had a depper 'oily' blued finish compared to the other two. Kimber base pads (bought on Amazon) fit the two that had base pad holes. The floor plates are welded, so truly a disposable mag. Mec-Gar says they are made of carbon steel.

Visual comparison to the Brownell's mags indicates the followers ar4e the same.

I haven't live-fired these yet. Last week our range clubhouse burnt to the ground and the powers that be closed the pistol side of the range to us serfs.

I did function test them for you, though. I used ST dummies, my bulk 124gr JHP's and 124gr HST's. I tried to approximate a string of fire, feed and chamber on partially loaded mags, feed and chamber on picked up ejected mags. I used 5 rounds because to my knowledge beyond four rounds loade doesn't change the angle of the first round.

String: loaded mag with five into pistol - hand cycled as rapidly as possible ejecting and feeding rounds.

Feed and Chamber: loaded mag with five, locked slide to rear and chambered, removed mag, repositioned top round, locked slide to rear and repeated.

Feed and Chamber Picked Up Mag: loaded mag with five, locked slide to rear and chambered, removed mag, DID NOT REPOSITION TOP ROUND, locked slide to rear and repeated.

All mags worked flawlessly, dropped free easily and inserted smoothly.

At this point, though, I'm sold on the Brownell's as they are cleanable and rebuildable, are made from stainless steel, and have a corrosion proof, friction reducing coating called 'Xylan'. The bas pad is not that obtrusive IMO.

Picture:

92272

Left: Mec-Gar w/bumper Center: Mec-Gar w/dimples Right: Brownells
Good report, thank you! It’s interesting that you received a mixture of styles. I went ahead and ordered some low profile glue on pads.

[SecondsCount]

Good report, thank you! It’s interesting that you received a mixture of styles. I went ahead and ordered some low profile glue on pads.

The Brownells mag looks to be a black version of the Chip McCormick Pro mag (https://www.cmproducts.com/Range-Pro-Full-Size-1911-9mm-10-Round-Stainless_p_361.html)

[45dotACP]

The Brownells mag looks to be a black version of the Chip McCormick Pro mag (https://www.cmproducts.com/Range-Pro-Full-Size-1911-9mm-10-Round-Stainless_p_361.html)I'm not sure about the CMC magazine, but I have photographed a Metalform 10rd mag next to a Brownells 10 rounder.

Aside from the color and coating, it appears to be the same tube, feed lips, built in feed ramp, and follower.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/9e68fc4d87f4446a84a5e5f8a4275283.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/7f4cab1f0483e294e4cbc6026929f046.jpg

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[SecondsCount]

I'm not sure about the CMC magazine, but I have photographed a Metalform 10rd mag next to a Brownells 10 rounder.

Aside from the color and coating, it appears to be the same tube, feed lips, built in feed ramp, and follower.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/9e68fc4d87f4446a84a5e5f8a4275283.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/7f4cab1f0483e294e4cbc6026929f046.jpg

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

That's probably them. I have some of those Metalforms from about 10 years ago but the are 45ACP. They worked okay from what I remember.

[TDoor]

Thought I should follow up with my findings so far, since I wound up taking the plunge.

I bought an SA Ronin commander in 9mm. Haven't had the chance to get a lot of range time with it yet but I did get to put a few boxes through it this weekend, findings below:

Malfunction log
-Started 50rd box of Monarch brass 115gr, 2019 production-
1. Failure to go into battery. Mag #1, round count 6, 7th round. Monarch brass 115gr. Had to strip mag and eject stuck round by racking slide.
2. Failure to go into battery. Mag #2, 9th round. Second mag through gun. Was able to tap into battery.
3. Failure to go into battery. Mag #3. 10th round. Third mag through gun. Tapped into battery.
4. Failure to go into battery. Mag #2. 3rd round in mag. Stuck round, had to strip.

-Finished monarch brass 115gr. 50rds 4 stoppages-

-Fired 50rd 124gr ZQI steel case. No issues-

-Fired 50rd 115gr Fiocchi brass-
-Started 2nd box of Fiocchi brass-
5. Failure to fully chamber/OOB. Mag #1. Fiocchi 115gr brass. 4th round in mag. Had to strip round. Next round in mag had walked forward, unknown if factor.

-Finished 50rd box of 115gr fiocchi brass-

-Fired 19rd Speer Gold Dot 147gr (finished off opened box) No issues-


Mag #1 was the factory SA 9rd mag, 2 and 3 are Wilson ETM 10rd mags.

The malfunctions looked pretty much identical, just slightly out of battery, and I could sometimes tap it into battery, so my assessment is that the gun is probably a bit undersprung.

Anyone have any recommendations on where to start with spring weights?

[Evil_Ed]

Thought I should follow up with my findings so far, since I wound up taking the plunge.

I bought an SA Ronin commander in 9mm. Haven't had the chance to get a lot of range time with it yet but I did get to put a few boxes through it this weekend, findings below:

Malfunction log
-Started 50rd box of Monarch brass 115gr, 2019 production-
1. Failure to go into battery. Mag #1, round count 6, 7th round. Monarch brass 115gr. Had to strip mag and eject stuck round by racking slide.
2. Failure to go into battery. Mag #2, 9th round. Second mag through gun. Was able to tap into battery.
3. Failure to go into battery. Mag #3. 10th round. Third mag through gun. Tapped into battery.
4. Failure to go into battery. Mag #2. 3rd round in mag. Stuck round, had to strip.

-Finished monarch brass 115gr. 50rds 4 stoppages-

-Fired 50rd 124gr ZQI steel case. No issues-

-Fired 50rd 115gr Fiocchi brass-
-Started 2nd box of Fiocchi brass-
5. Failure to fully chamber/OOB. Mag #1. Fiocchi 115gr brass. 4th round in mag. Had to strip round. Next round in mag had walked forward, unknown if factor.

-Finished 50rd box of 115gr fiocchi brass-

-Fired 19rd Speer Gold Dot 147gr (finished off opened box) No issues-


Mag #1 was the factory SA 9rd mag, 2 and 3 are Wilson ETM 10rd mags.

The malfunctions looked pretty much identical, just slightly out of battery, and I could sometimes tap it into battery, so my assessment is that the gun is probably a bit undersprung.

Anyone have any recommendations on where to start with spring weights?

Either undersprung, or the extractor is a little on the tight side...or possibly you're using grease on the rails instead of oil? Believe it or not, that's how fine a line 1911s in 9mm can run; grease can cause some issues that disappear when using oil.

IIRC factory/Colt-spec 9mm/38 Super Commander spring weight translates to 14lb, give or take (Colt never specified their springs by weight; they specified by turns and size of the wire IIRC)...stepping up to a 15 or 16lb recoil spring wouldn't really hurt. But - I'd check extractor tension and setup (make sure it's not too long, stuff like that), and if you're using grease on the rails I'd switch to an oil instead.

[Robinson]

Anyone have any recommendations on where to start with spring weights?

Pretty much what Evil_Ed said.

Too much extractor tension can definitely cause rounds to nosedive into the ramp, preventing the slide from going all the way forward into battery. I actually saw that problem recently in a Wilson Combat 9mm Commander.

Also, Springfield Armory tends to drastically underspring their 9mm 1911s whereas Colt tends to slightly overspring theirs. I would use at least a 12# Commander length spring in your gun.

[gato naranja]

The malfunctions looked pretty much identical, just slightly out of battery, and I could sometimes tap it into battery, so my assessment is that the gun is probably a bit undersprung.

That sounds pretty similar to the malfunctions I had with my first 9mm 1911.

In the end I found that it was primarily caused because:

1. the center ("disconnector") leg of the sear spring was very sharp - almost like a chisel - and had dug into the disconnector at the point where the spring interfaced with the angled bit near the bottom of the back of the disconnector. instead of a nice "sliding" contact, it was putting too much upward force on the disconnector.

2. the "flat" of the disconnector where it interfaces with the back of the trigger bar was a bit rough and also prevented a nice, sliding movement.

Those two things plus a wee bit bit of initial roughness on the underside of the slide where the disconnector tip rides seemed to overcome the factory recoil spring off and on.

In the end, just deburring the end of the disconnector leg of the sear spring and removing the rough/high spots on the two surfaces of the disconnector that I just mentioned did the trick without any need to replace the recoil spring after all.

I'm not saying this is necessarily your 1911's problem and/or cure, but the initial intermittent out of battery issue on mine went away with nothing but the above gentle smoothing with a hard Arkansas stone and some TLC.

[mmc45414]

I replaced my two Rugers (4.25 & 5.0) with whatever Wolff said was standard for 9mm.

Could be other things, but I wouldn't use up much more ammo till you swap springs, I for sure wouldn't tune around the wimpy ones.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[willie]

Never had issues with the several 9mm Colt 1911's that I've owned. Hammer spring weight is a big factor in controlling slide velocity. Thumb safety and grip safety both require fitting meaning that the drop in grip safety you buy may or may not engage as it should. I've examined several Tisas 1911's. My lgs sells the government model for $425. Those who wish to tinker might consider the brand.

[DDTSGM]

I'm not sure about the CMC magazine, but I have photographed a Metalform 10rd mag next to a Brownells 10 rounder.

Aside from the color and coating, it appears to be the same tube, feed lips, built in feed ramp, and follower.

They do look the same. Brownell's is also stainless under the Xylan finish. A couple guys on Brian Enos's also said they were Metalform.

According to Steve, though, the Brownell's have the no BS lifetime guarantee:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iN-fF8J9_g

You also take better pictures than I do.

[dmiculek]

https://i.imgur.com/ng0HRdfm.jpg

I'm a big fan of the 9rd Metal Form magazines with the front feed ramp.
This early SA Loaded is the best out of the box 1911 I ever had, Only mods are FS checkering, sights and a DIY trigger. It feeds anything from 90-160 gr. It has 25-30K trouble free rounds thru it with the Metal Form mags.

[Jim Watson]

CMC made the XD 10x9mm magazine with the front spacer and ramp, too.
But when Wilson bought them out, they went back to the 1950 design.

[Bucky]

Thought I should follow up with my findings so far, since I wound up taking the plunge.

I bought an SA Ronin commander in 9mm. Haven't had the chance to get a lot of range time with it yet but I did get to put a few boxes through it this weekend, findings below:

Malfunction log
-Started 50rd box of Monarch brass 115gr, 2019 production-
1. Failure to go into battery. Mag #1, round count 6, 7th round. Monarch brass 115gr. Had to strip mag and eject stuck round by racking slide.
2. Failure to go into battery. Mag #2, 9th round. Second mag through gun. Was able to tap into battery.
3. Failure to go into battery. Mag #3. 10th round. Third mag through gun. Tapped into battery.
4. Failure to go into battery. Mag #2. 3rd round in mag. Stuck round, had to strip.

-Finished monarch brass 115gr. 50rds 4 stoppages-

-Fired 50rd 124gr ZQI steel case. No issues-

-Fired 50rd 115gr Fiocchi brass-
-Started 2nd box of Fiocchi brass-
5. Failure to fully chamber/OOB. Mag #1. Fiocchi 115gr brass. 4th round in mag. Had to strip round. Next round in mag had walked forward, unknown if factor.

-Finished 50rd box of 115gr fiocchi brass-

-Fired 19rd Speer Gold Dot 147gr (finished off opened box) No issues-


Mag #1 was the factory SA 9rd mag, 2 and 3 are Wilson ETM 10rd mags.

The malfunctions looked pretty much identical, just slightly out of battery, and I could sometimes tap it into battery, so my assessment is that the gun is probably a bit undersprung.

Anyone have any recommendations on where to start with spring weights?

Notice a pattern here? All malfunctions are with 115 grain practice ammo (or non-defense). I remember the early Gen 4 Glock 19s where I saw a similar pattern. Even my HK P30 would puke on 115 ammo until it was broken in. Putting in a heavier spring may actually make it worse.. with the 115s. I know ammo isn’t plentiful, but I’d recommend sticking with 124 or heavier till it’s well broken in.

[gato naranja]

Notice a pattern here? All malfunctions are with 115 grain practice ammo (or non-defense). I remember the early Gen 4 Glock 19s where I saw a similar pattern. Even my HK P30 would puke on 115 ammo until it was broken in. Putting in a heavier spring may actually make it worse.. with the 115s. I know ammo isn’t plentiful, but I’d recommend sticking with 124 or heavier till it’s well broken in.

I once thought that 115 gr ball was the one thing any 9mm would run on, even though I had guys with bringbacks tell me otherwise. Nowadays I am inclined to agree that if a pistol will run on the cheap 115 gr stuff, it will run about anything except maybe "outliers."