Police pre employment polygraph questions

[Lon]

I’ve been tasked w revamping our background check process and I’m looking for input. I know some agencies actually have 2 polygraph tests - one before and one after a conditional job offer. I’m look for examples of the questions asked in the second polygraph. Please PM me if you can help.

Thanks

[Coyotesfan97]

Sorry I don’t think my post will be helpful.

Who uses two polygraph tests? Why? No offense but fuck that. Mine lasted 3 and a half hours and the guy running it was an asshole. I walked out feeling low and thinking there’s no way I’ll get hired. I hates them I do. One bad experience sours the bunch.

We did have a pre polygraph interview with a hiring Detective going through the questions you’d likely be asked.

As a side note after I’d been on awhile and asked around a little I learned the guy who interviewed me wasn’t liked and my opinion of him was shared. I worked with a guy for thirty years who failed his first poly given by my guy. He failed it. He went to DPS and passed theirs. The hiring Sergeant brought him back for another poly by another examiner which he passed. He was hired and was three classes ahead of me in the Academy. He was a K9 legend.

[UNM1136]

My experience as well. My entire academy class had nightmares about the poly. The examiner told me I failed, when I didn't. This department was 4 hours from home, and hired me.

That was the second poly. On the first one I fell for the lie told by the examiner: "be honest, tell us everything. Nothing in this interview will be used against you unless you are lying." Was inconclusive on that one and barred from ever reapplying. Dry ice bombs as a teen. On private property. With no damage. No law enforcement contact. Bounced and barred for admitting to a 4th degree felony for constructing an explosive device, and a 3rd degree felony for detonaring it. I was honest, the poly did not detect deception, and it was my pre poly interview that got me bounced and barred.

Even when that agency was falling all over itself to hire tons of cops with bonuses and more pay, I refused to apply on principle.

pat

[HCM]

I’ve been tasked w revamping our background check process and I’m looking for input. I know some agencies actually have 2 polygraph tests - one before and one after a conditional job offer. I’m look for examples of the questions asked in the second polygraph. Please PM me if you can help.

Thanks

Polygraph is only as good as the examiner. It’s basically an interview prop.

CBP has had significant issues with their contract polygraphers. One of my co-worker’s wife applied for CBP and it turned into an internal affairs investigation. The examiner give her his hotel room key and told her she would fail if she didn’t come to his room and….

That said I recall someone (possibly @BehinfBlueI’s ) mentioned his agency recently added a question about masturbation while at work which has eliminated significant numbers of candidates.

[Magsz]

The only thing a polygraph does is show consistency in responses.

Other than that, I really do think its almost worthless given how many people walk out of their polygraphs thinking that the examiner was biased as hell. We've all heard the stories of polygraphist's and psychologists failing applicants for whatever their own inherent bias or agenda may be.

Having said that, the two thoughts above are from my uneducated point of view having been the recipient of two polygraphs during my hiring process.

[jnc36rcpd]

Lon, what is the reasoning behind a second polygraph exam? Unless there is a significant amount of time between the original poly and the conditional offer, it would seem to be redundant.

[randyho]

It’s basically an interview prop.
Keeping in mind that the same person who invented it also invented Wonder Woman's lasso of truth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasso_of_Truth).

[BehindBlueI's]

That said I recall someone (possibly @BehinfBlueI’s ) mentioned his agency recently added a question about masturbation while at work which has eliminated significant numbers of candidates.

Yup. The most common reason given was 'stress relief'.

Polygraphs are modern day casting of bones. A way to scare the ignorant and nothing more*. Never admit to knowing how the polygraph works or they'll accuse you of using countermeasures. Just be ignorant.

*if it's done honestly. If it's done dishonestly, it's a way to fail 'undesirables' from the process without admitting what you're doing. Oh, gosh, they failed the poly. Oh no. We liked them so much...

[lwt16]

Agree with BBI.

I’ve had 4 over the span of my employment with 2 police departments. Big waste of time.

My last one was earlier this year. Retirees can come back part time but have to go through the whole process other than the PT test. There’s one specifically for them but it’s a cake walk.

PG interviewer: “Mr Lwt16. Have you ever carried a firearm concealed? “

Me: “Yes, I have one on me right now, Kathy”.

PGI: “Oh, really? Gee, you hide it well. I didn’t even see it when I put the chest thingies on you.” She used the correct term for chest thingies.

PGI “Okay. Mr Lwt16. Have you ever discharged a firearm at someone?”

Me: “Yes, you know that Kathy. Are we about done?”

PGI: “Oh yeah, how’d that trial turn out?” Huge explanation of all that drama followed.

Pure silliness.

She’s a retiree as well so I guess whatever she was charging the city was worth it to her. To me it was a waste of an hour.

[Lon]

Lon, what is the reasoning behind a second polygraph exam? Unless there is a significant amount of time between the original poly and the conditional offer, it would seem to be redundant.

The reasoning behind the 2nd poly (from what I’ve been told) is that you can ask certain questions after someone has signed a conditional job offer that you cannot ask before the conditional. That’s one of the things I’m learning about.

[Totem Polar]

I’m way out of my lane in this part of the forum, but it occurs to me that the poly may well be the LE voodoo that meets big academia’s “peer review” publishing criteria.

Anyways, don’t mind me, carry on, carry on.

[Coyotesfan97]

The reasoning behind the 2nd poly (from what I’ve been told) is that you can ask certain questions after someone has signed a conditional job offer that you cannot ask before the conditional. That’s one of the things I’m learning about.

Just out of curiosity what kind of questions are those? Man if I’d been told I had to take another poly after my first one I really would’ve been tempted to throw out the double claw. k9ese for bird.

[Lon]

Just out of curiosity what kind of questions are those? Man if I’d been told I had to take another poly after my first one I really would’ve been tempted to throw out the double claw. k9ese for bird.

I think they can get more into precious medical and mental health type questions. That’s why I’m looking for agencies that do a second poly, I don’t wanna recreate the wheel.

[KeeFus]

Meh. CVSAs and polygraphs are just tools to assist in the background…as in they may possibly send the investigator in a direction they may not have already covered. Good background investigators find most of the stuff anyway.

When I was doing backgrounds, even if the candidate failed the CVSA it wasn’t a death nail… way more weight was thrown towards the actual background and what it revealed.

[Rocky Racoon]

The reasoning behind the 2nd poly (from what I’ve been told) is that you can ask certain questions after someone has signed a conditional job offer that you cannot ask before the conditional. That’s one of the things I’m learning about.

Then just give them one after the conditional offer. Problem solved.

[DpdG]

In NH polygraphs are commonly used, but always after the conditional offer due to ADA protections that apply prior to the conditional. Based upon what I've been trained on, I don't see much value in a pre-conditional poly, as it's basically impossible to do any background investigation before the conditional.

[Hambo]

I was just listening to Scott Reitz's story about his partner using the roof mounted can light, the PA, and the radio mic as a poly for a suspect. You'd be hard pressed to prove it's more/less reliable than a real machine.

[AMC]

I was just listening to Scott Reitz's story about his partner using the roof mounted can light, the PA, and the radio mic as a poly for a suspect. You'd be hard pressed to prove it's more/less reliable than a real machine.

Many moons ago I saw some creative officers run some copper wire from a collander to a copy machine. They also placed a sheet of paper with the word "LIE" in large type on the glass. They put the collander on the head of some crook and after every question, the 'Examiner' pressed the print button and held up the results. Poor dumb crook. Turns out dumbass didn't do the crime in question. But he did confess to a separate burglary.

[revchuck38]

My experience was doing background investigations for TS clearances and CI investigations. A poly would be done only if credible derog was developed during the investigation. If the subject came up DI on the poly, more interviews followed. Polys were rarely done.

[DC_P]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Sw6by7pig

[VT1032]

Many moons ago I saw some creative officers run some copper wire from a collander to a copy machine. They also placed a sheet of paper with the word "LIE" in large type on the glass. They put the collander on the head of some crook and after every question, the 'Examiner' pressed the print button and held up the results. Poor dumb crook. Turns out dumbass didn't do the crime in question. But he did confess to a separate burglary.

Was it Bunk?


https://youtu.be/AJ5aIvjNgao?t=93

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Not really something I studied, but I do recall the psych world thinks they are voodoo for the most part. For example: https://www.apa.org/topics/cognitive-neuroscience/polygraph

The social impact on the subject is a different issue.

[AMC]

Was it Bunk?


https://youtu.be/AJ5aIvjNgao?t=93

My recollection is that they believed it was legit, but they did not have enough to charge him. No matter. Crook was gonna crook again.

These were veteran plainclothes streetcrimes unit guys. Only saw them do that the one time, and that was near 30 years ago. Such shenanigans have been frowned upon for some time.

[VT1032]

My recollection is that they believed it was legit, but they did not have enough to charge him. No matter. Crook was gonna crook again.

These were veteran plainclothes streetcrimes unit guys. Only saw them do that the one time, and that was near 30 years ago. Such shenanigans have been frowned upon for some time.

To be clear, I wasn't asking if the case was bunk. The character's nickname is Bunk. He does the exact same thing if you go to about 1:30 or so. Fantastic show if you've never watched it.

[TC215]

My state prohibits disqualifying an applicant solely for a “failed” polygraph (an examiner finding deception). However, people admit stuff all the time on the poly that get them kicked. Child porn (a lot), beastiality, selling any type of drug you can imagine. My favorite was when an applicant sent his identical twin brother to take the poly for him.

[Chance]

We had a lengthy thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23895-2-3-Border-Patrol-job-applicants-fail-polygraph-test-making-hiring-difficult) about polygraphs a few years ago. Most places schedule two because the first is basically an opportunity to harangue you for a few hours to see what you'll say, then the second is the "good cop" routine which you "pass" if they still think you're a good candidate.

[Hambo]

However, people admit stuff all the time on the poly that get them kicked. Child porn (a lot), beastiality, selling any type of drug you can imagine.

Holy shit.

[UNM1136]

Filed under whodathunkit?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Might make me reconsider polys...

Just might...

My stepmom had CI polys at Langley every 6 or so months. Maybe she is right, and I am a pussy.

pat

[Lon]

Holy shit.

You have no idea.

The beastiality thing is a real problem. I’ve often wondered if there was some underground Facebook challenge that involved dogs and peanut butter. A buddy does polys for a neighboring department. He’s done hundreds. Shocking how many are eliminated for this.

At a certain point agencies are going to have to re-evaluate what level of “that’s fucked up” that they’re going to say is an automatic disqualification.

A couple of years ago we had a former cadet that got jammed up due to a poly. I think he ended up catching a felony out of some of the stuff that came up.

[Hambo]

You have no idea.

The beastiality thing is a real problem. I’ve often wondered if there was some underground Facebook challenge that involved dogs and peanut butter. A buddy does polys for a neighboring department. He’s done hundreds. Shocking how many are eliminated for this.

At a certain point agencies are going to have to re-evaluate what level of “that’s fucked up” that they’re going to say is an automatic disqualification.

A couple of years ago we had a former cadet that got jammed up due to a poly. I think he ended up catching a felony out of some of the stuff that came up.

I had no idea, but now I do. If we have to re-evaluate standards, I say LE should hire people with criminal records ahead of dog fuckers.

[BobM]

You have no idea.

The beastiality thing is a real problem. I’ve often wondered if there was some underground Facebook challenge that involved dogs and peanut butter. A buddy does polys for a neighboring department. He’s done hundreds. Shocking how many are eliminated for this.

At a certain point agencies are going to have to re-evaluate what level of “that’s fucked up” that they’re going to say is an automatic disqualification.

A couple of years ago we had a former cadet that got jammed up due to a poly. I think he ended up catching a felony out of some of the stuff that came up.

Sometime before I retired, we had an applicant who admitted to having relations with a horse.

[Lon]

I had no idea, but now I do. If we have to re-evaluate standards, I say LE should hire people with criminal records ahead of dog fuckers.

While I was talking about this w my buddy he told me that he’s done enough of these by now that he can tell when someone is on the brink of revealing something embarrassing so he’ll tell them something like, “look, I’ve done a lot of these and it’s pretty common for people to tell me XYZ…..” so this kid reveals something sexual to do with a deer. At the end of the poly the kid asks if that will keep him from getting a job. My buddy was like, “oh yeah, that’s gonna disqualify you”….. so the kid says “but you said that was NORMAL!?!?! To which my buddy replies something like, “I said it was COMMON, there’s nothing normal about it”.

[TC215]

You have no idea.

The beastiality thing is a real problem. I’ve often wondered if there was some underground Facebook challenge that involved dogs and peanut butter. A buddy does polys for a neighboring department. He’s done hundreds. Shocking how many are eliminated for this.

At a certain point agencies are going to have to re-evaluate what level of “that’s fucked up” that they’re going to say is an automatic disqualification.

A couple of years ago we had a former cadet that got jammed up due to a poly. I think he ended up catching a felony out of some of the stuff that came up.

I neglected to mention the peanut butter, but yes, totally accurate.

[willie]

And women applicants? What eliminates them?

[Hambo]

“oh yeah, that’s gonna disqualify you”

I love it.


And women applicants? What eliminates them?

After all the above, do you really want to ask that question?

[willie]

I love it.



After all the above, do you really want to ask that question?

Yes but I fear it's gonna have something to do with a dog. You see in 1971 when I was studying frogs and toads at Auburn University, I met a lovely young and pretty 1st grade teacher who.....

I had best not give Clusterfrack a test case on what is and ain't appropriate. That's why I did not post about stump broke heifers and such.

[revchuck38]

“Stump broke heifers”…been a while since I’ve heard that. ;)

[claymore504]

I went through this many years ago right when I ETSed from the Army. Took a polygraph for a very large city PD here in Texas. I pretty much felt like a criminal the entire process and was treated as such. I ended up being deployed with the NG right after that for 9/11 and lost all progress in hiring with that PD and ended up in a different career field. The process is weird at best if you ask me. After the first round, they left me in the room alone with a tape recorder rolling and she told me I better think about my answers and then came back after 45 minutes for round two.

[psalms144.1]

I've done multiple polys over the years - at least four that I can think of. Most were "CI Scope," so a little different from a generic background "suitability" poly.

My first one I was a young Captain in the Army, and was terrified, having heard nothing but horror stories. The examiner, from NSA, was a twin for Wolford Brimley. He immediately ID'd me as a nervous Nelly, and sat me down and went through all the operant questions in advance. When I saw what was being asked, all stress disappeared, and we blew through it in under 30 minutes.

My LAST poly (same CI Scope) was administered by my former agency, by a kid who was running his first test (after a subject backed out of a criminal poly). He had me "on the box" sitting in a T-shirt under an AC duct for 7 hours straight, complaining about "artifacts." When he started to Reid Technique me, I terminated the test with some colorful language involved.

The next day his supervisor asked if I'd be willing to retake the test. I did, took it, past it without issue in less than 45 minutes. At that point I swore I'd NEVER take a poly again for any purpose, ever.

[EMC]

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