Anyone CCW sometimes an iron sight handgun and sometimes one with a red dot?

[Snidely Whiplash]

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed. I tried searching for a similar topic but couldn't find anything.

I primarily pocket carry a P365 with night sights in Florida. On days where a cover shirt is feasible (lower temperature) I carry a Glock 19 in an OWB holster. It’s not practical for me to carry the P365 with a red dot (it won’t fit in my pocket) but I’m tempted to give a red dot a try on the Glock 19 because of age and eyesight.

If the red dot would work for me on the Glock I would still have to regularly pocket carry the P365 with iron sights; I can’t wear a cover shirt on hot Florida days without getting overheated.

Does anyone else go back and forth between CCW’s with iron sights and a red dot? Will switching from one to another cause me any issues? I’ve read that with red dots one focuses on the target and with irons the focus is on the front sight. I guess I’m worried about the initial focus point of two different sighting systems being an issue. Or maybe there are other concerns I should have?

[Nephrology]

Once I got bit by dots I kinda went all in. Life is easier now.

[RJ]

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed. I tried searching for a similar topic but couldn't find anything.

I primarily pocket carry a P365 with night sights in Florida. On days where a cover shirt is feasible (lower temperature) I carry a Glock 19 in an OWB holster. It’s not practical for me to carry the P365 with a red dot (it won’t fit in my pocket)



Why can't you pocket carry the P365 with a dot?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51406-Pocket-carry-with-a-MRDS

[RJ]

Does anyone else go back and forth between CCW’s with iron sights and a red dot? Will switching from one to another cause me any issues? I’ve read that with red dots one focuses on the target and with irons the focus is on the front sight. I guess I’m worried about the initial focus point of two different sighting systems being an issue. Or maybe there are other concerns I should have?

How much trigger time do you have with iron sights? How about with a dot?

[Casey]

I can’t wear a cover shirt on hot Florida days without getting overheated.
South Florida resident here—lightweight fishing shirts are your friend. Columbia, Orvis, Howler Bros, and Ex Officio (among many others) offer ventilated shirts that work quite well as cover garments and are more than tolerable in summer, while being a common wardrobe option and not standing out as "tactical."

[BehindBlueI's]

Yes. Mostly due to work requirements.

[vcdgrips]

To pick up Casey's point:

Absent a medical condition, the types of shirts he described, or even a step farther, something guayabera like with a square bottom in linen/cotton/poly blend wick enough to be be reasonable comfortable, cool and fashionable without being tactical teddy looking at all.


I say this who does this in the KCMO area where we can have 80 plus degrees and/or 80% humidity on any given day from April thru September.

I am in a state of transition and am carrying a G17 w and RDS most frequently, an iron sighted G19 and an iron sighted G35 the rest of the time. I suspect I will RDS the vast majority of the time by the end of 2023.

Purpose designed holster with a purposed designed belt.

https://www.amazon.com/MAXJON-Guayabera-Shirts-Sleeve-Shirt%EF%BC%88Blue/dp/B09D7Y3RCX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1TLDHR7CU1UA2&keywords=guayabera&qid=1656890259&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011%2Cp_36%3A2661612011&rnid=2661611011&s=apparel&sprefix=guayabera%2Caps%2C201&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyS01FQ0lXUUZFWkJTJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzczMjQxNzBXNkNDNlU3Wk9QJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3Njg5NDBHTEtYVFZZQk9ENksmd2lkZ2V0T mFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3R Mb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

[JCN]

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed. I tried searching for a similar topic but couldn't find anything.

I primarily pocket carry a P365 with night sights in Florida. On days where a cover shirt is feasible (lower temperature) I carry a Glock 19 in an OWB holster. It’s not practical for me to carry the P365 with a red dot (it won’t fit in my pocket) but I’m tempted to give a red dot a try on the Glock 19 because of age and eyesight.

If the red dot would work for me on the Glock I would still have to regularly pocket carry the P365 with iron sights; I can’t wear a cover shirt on hot Florida days without getting overheated.

Does anyone else go back and forth between CCW’s with iron sights and a red dot? Will switching from one to another cause me any issues? I’ve read that with red dots one focuses on the target and with irons the focus is on the front sight. I guess I’m worried about the initial focus point of two different sighting systems being an issue. Or maybe there are other concerns I should have?

Yes. I do.

Pocket revolver (iron sights) and red dot semi-autos.

I compete with red dots and it has made my iron revolver shooting even better.


https://youtu.be/M1MqgvDVRaI

[Grouse870]

Yes work requirements.

[M2CattleCo]

I do.

I carry a 17/RMR when I want, and carry a 26/Ameriglos when I want.

I’m a huge fan of red dots and shoot one more than I don’t. My irons shooting hasn’t diminished at all and I am still confident that an iron sighted 26 is a damn good sidearm.

[L-2]

Practice and shoot a lot (I mean 1,000-rounds-a-lot) with both an optic sight and the iron sights, even during the same range & practice session.
With enough repetition switching back & forth, a person should be able to become familiar with both methods.

If, for some reason, a person just isn't satisfied with either method, at least the shooter can make a better-informed decision as to which system to stay-with or keep.

Whether a P365 with optic can fit in one's pocket or a different carry/holster system can be considered as an alternate is yet another subject.

And if both a red-dot-sight and iron-sights are used, just shoot & practice a lot to maintain proficiency & familiarity. With the ammo prices, this can become ~$400/month effort. Some people shoot more; most shoot less. Holster drawing and dry-firing is likely good-enough to develop the habits of focusing on a front sight vs. looking at the target/bad-guy through a sight window.

[Up1911Fan]

Yes. Mostly due to work requirements.

Same. Iron sighted Gen5 G17 at work. Gen5 G19 with a 508T and TLR-7A on my own time. When I go smaller it's a P365XL ( soon to have an EPS carry) occasionally a J Frame. Would prefer to have a dot on everything but the J.

[Warped Mindless]

I have red dot pistols but carry a 365x with irons 90% of the time. I have perfect eye sight though.

[1Rangemaster]

For nearly three years I have carried a dot equipped pistol on a daily basis- 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time it will be a pistol with irons. For me, there is a positive performance difference with a dot. But, I’ve qualified and “tested” myself with irons. From church this morning to lounging around the house it was G26 with the Bold sights; IOW, I’m comfortable with switching back and forth.
I do try first thing before leaving the house to present and dry fire 5-10 times. Then load up and carry on…
YMMV,etc.

[4mykaren]

I have red dot on my range gun, but for ccw pistols px4 storm/Glock 26 I only use night sights and factory parts/set up. I tried to carry a G19 with red dot winter time but gave up. Maybe I am kind of old school though, but main reason is I am too busy to have range practice time, so I am a little worried about I can not find the dot under pressures, iron sights easier for me at close range. I like to keep it simple and stupid, just my 2 cents. Anyway good luck man and happy 4th of July 👍




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnVyxka6XT0

[Oldherkpilot]

I carry both. I am all in with the dots but when working at the torture facility (the wife's small farm) I find the irons pistol best when its warm and I don't have a cover garment on. The 507C is great for catching detritus. Both pistols are the same otherwise, so finding the dot when I switch back and forth isn't a.problem.

[RJ]

To answer the OP, yes.

Basic retired geezer, so I carry with either a Ruger LCR .38 in a Desantis Nemesis pocket or a Sig P365X with Holosun 407k in a JM Custom Kydex AIWB WC 2.5. I did an experiment putting the P365X FCU into a Sig P365 grip module, optic and all, into a Vedder Pocket Locker. That actually also worked pretty well, reference the linked thread.

I'm not in the same category of most of the shooters here, but can put rounds on target if I focus. As a comparison, I recently shot my Glock 34+HS 507c game gun, back to back with a rental Rock Island Armory 5" .45 with basic iron sights. Both were at 7 yards. My groups were comparable in size. With the optic I shoot target focused, see dot, press trigger. The iron sights on the .45 were a bit of a pain, after shooting dots since I converted to optics mainly, in 2020. I think I shoot irons better now, come to think of it.

[Bucky]

As someone who been shooting dot sighted handguns longer than some others (Open division guns back to the early ‘90s), I just haven’t made the jump for CCW. i certainly understand their value, but for civilian CCW, I don’t find it a necessity. - yet. My iron sight skills are still good, and eyesight is workable, but is starting to show decline. So, that may be the jump point. Now if I had a job that required me to carry, that’d be another story.

BTW, I do love my carry optic gun, a Shadow 2 + SRO, and particularly love the sight. Does anyone run an SRO on a duty or carry piece, or is it too big / heavy / fragile?

[JCN]

As someone who been shooting dot sighted handguns longer than some others (Open division guns back to the early ‘90s), I just haven’t made the jump for CCW. i certainly understand their value, but for civilian CCW, I don’t find it a necessity. - yet. My iron sight skills are still good, and eyesight is workable, but is starting to show decline. So, that may be the jump point. Now if I had a job that required me to carry, that’d be another story.

BTW, I do love my carry optic gun, a Shadow 2 + SRO, and particularly love the sight. Does anyone run an SRO on a duty or carry piece, or is it too big / heavy / fragile?

Some agencies went to SRO with BUIS with the thought that the shooting benefits outweigh the durability drawbacks.

If you look at the Jedi black belt standard list, a large percent used SROs on their presumably carry guns.

The Tier 1 holster guys do too.

I resisted going to dot on my AIWB carry gun for a while but on repeat objective testing I was just so much better with the dot enabled gun and from that holster position it didn’t add any significant bulk or weight.

The low light performance of a dot is what sold me. Think of dark parking garage or alley with poor contrast. Makes irons tough to be accurate with. Especially at speed.

[CraigS]

I don't have a dot on a carry gun but I used to do a lot of pocket carry w/ a Keltec PF9. What I found was that the opening to the pocket was most important as to whether I could make a smooth draw. Regular jeans pocket is pretty much impossible. But the main pocket (not the cargo pocket) in Wrangler cargo pants/shorts works fine. Seemed to me that the closer the pocket opening is to a standard dress slacks shape the easier my draw. A vertical opening is MUCH better than a horizontal opening.
No good;
https://www.wrangler.com/shop/mens-wrangler-20x-no.-42-vintage-bootcut-jean-42MWX.html?merchCategory=WRG_MEN_JEANS&dwvar_42MWX_color=112314599
Good;
https://www.wrangler.com/shop/wrangler-mens-five-star-premium-ripstop-cargo-short-60CRW.html?merchCategory=WRG_MEN_FEATURED_CARGO&dwvar_60CRW_color=60FTWML
not all cargoes are good as some have a more horizontal pocket. So my thought is I'd give the 365 w/ a small dot a try. You may be limited in what it will work with but it is worth a shot.

[Snidely Whiplash]

Thank you everyone for sharing your experience and insights. I very much appreciate it.

I’m 54 years old, have four years as an infantryman in the late eighties, worked for thirteen years as a police officer (carried a four inch S&W revolver for years then a Beretta 92), and then didn’t shoot a firearm at all for about twenty years. I just renewed my interest in shooting and got my CCW two and a half years ago. Aside from long guns, which all of mine have optics, I’ve only been been familiar with iron sights on handguns. The red dots / optics on the long guns have shown me how beneficial they can be so I’m assuming there can be a similar benefit with red dots on handguns.

Trying to get up to speed on handgun red dots at times feels like trying to drink from a fire hose; It’s lot of information to take in and there’s no one local to me that has the experience and knowledge that this forum does for me to get advice from. I’m at the point where I’ll probably just have to commit to giving a handgun red dot a try.

My (latest) worry has been about routinely carrying two different sighting systems and I was wondering if others have experienced any issues with presenting a firearm and getting a sight picture they might not be expecting or have last practiced with. I worry if I have to draw my iron sight handgun I’ll be looking for a dot that’s not there and will hesitate as I adjust to the iron sights and vice versa.

[Snidely Whiplash]

I’m not sure if it’s a medical issue or just that I’m overly sensitive to heat but on hot days there’s no way I can wear an over shirt. I’m currently living in central Florida. My primary cover shirts are the very lightweight Eddie Bauer moisture wicking shirts. They are very thin and lightweight but on hot humid days it’s still too much for me wear over a t-shirt while outside. I wish I could carry the Glock every day but I just can’t.

I’d be really reluctant to add a red dot to the P365. Like others have posted, I can’t carry the P365 in blue jean shorts but it fits (size and weight) perfectly in basic cotton shorts front pocket in a Mika pocket holster. I do worry about the cut of the pocket opening snagging a red dot, lint accumulation in a red dot, and adding any additional weight. The standard P365 is right at the limit of what I’m willing to everyday and everywhere pocket carry; I don’t want to put myself in a position to skip carrying it because it’s “too heavy for this quick trip, too bulky just to walk down the street, etc”.

[RJ]

Thinking about your particular situation resonates with me. I don't have your .mil or LEO background, but I picked up a pistol for the first time at age 56 or so, about 7 or 8 years ago. I live around Sarasota.

I recently went through a weight transition from 218 to 178, carrying both IWB/OWB (before) and AIWB (after.)

When I was bigger, I carried a Glock 19 IWB. Holster was a JM CK. I always felt like the gun dragged down on my belt. Cover garment was a T-shirt or polo. During this period, I tried out a Mitch Rosen Upper Limit (a high riding, leather, straight drop holster). I carried this AOWB (appendix, but OWB). I really liked this carry. It allowed me to carry riding in the truck by sliding the holster slightly outboard. When walking the dog, or other activity, I could slide it inboard.

https://mitchrosen.com/products/express-line/

During this period, I also bought a Glock 26. It carried in the same Upper Limit holster. It was a bit lighter than the G19, and I carried it 12+1 with OEM mags.

I also ended up buying a Raven Concealment Perun. This is a ambi, configurable, polymer OWB holster. It could be set up just like the MR, but not being leather was lighter.

Either/both holsters were very satisfactory solutions.

I went on a low-carb diet about 18 months ago and dropped 30+ lbs to a size 34. During this transition, I went from iron sights to dots, and bought a G19 MOS and a few Sig P365 models (P365, P365XL, P365X). Out of the above, I now have only a G19 MOS with HS 507c and a P365X with HS 407k for carry.

I have a JM CK AIWB WC 2.5 for both the Glock and Sig. These days, I find AIWB VASTLY more comfortable than behind the hip carry. Of the two, I routinely prefer the Sig, despite the 12+1 being trumped by the Glock's 15+1. The Sig is that much smaller, that it gets carried, being honest. In fact I'm about ready to turn the Glock 19 MOS into another option (separate topic).

Expanding a bit on the P365X+JM Custom Kydex: for comfort without a undershirt, I've attached two Mastermind Tactics "Appendix Carry Pillows" with velcro to the back. The top one I've deflated (taken the stuffing out.) This acts as a cusion and is just a piece of fabric. The lower one I have left alone for the padding in my gentleman area. The combination of these two works extremely well.

Another comfort option is the "Melody Lauer Holster Hack". This is a Dr. Scholl's Women's Gel Heel insert, size M, attached via velcro to the upper inside of the holster shell. (this is how the gun/holster is set up in the picture below; you can just see the grey material of the Dr. Scholl's pad curve around the upper end of the slide and optic). This also helps comfort without an undershirt in FL.

For retention I've found the single DCC clip and wing claw work well. I really like the weighted Wilson Combat grip module. I did have to trim the beavertail a couple mm as it was fouling my draw. I'm a lefty.

91038

Hope this helps.

[Darth_Uno]

I just haven’t made the jump for CCW. i certainly understand their value, but for civilian CCW, I don’t find it a necessity. - yet.

I agree. I usually carry a G19 with RMR, but I’ve got a lot of miles on my 19 with black rear/FO front and that goes in the holster a fair bit as well. (Whether you should carry with FO sights is another discussion.) The benefits of a red dot are beyond debate at this point; but I’ve yet to be convinced that irons put you at any significant disadvantage for most CC applications.

[Ndbbm]

I’d be really reluctant to add a red dot to the P365. Like others have posted, I can’t carry the P365 in blue jean shorts but it fits (size and weight) perfectly in basic cotton shorts front pocket in a Mika pocket holster. I do worry about the cut of the pocket opening snagging a red dot, lint accumulation in a red dot, and adding any additional weight. The standard P365 is right at the limit of what I’m willing to everyday and everywhere pocket carry; I don’t want to put myself in a position to skip carrying it because it’s “too heavy for this quick trip, too bulky just to walk down the street, etc”.

You could just get a spare 365 slide to put a dot on and just switch them out as you want to. I have no dot experience yet but that’s going to change whenever my scs shows up and probably for work later this year as well.

Jason

[1Rangemaster]

You could just get a spare 365 slide to put a dot on and just switch them out as you want to. I have no dot experience yet but that’s going to change whenever my scs shows up and probably for work later this year as well.

Jason
That’s a reasonable option, if one has the funds.

@Snidley Whiplash: it seems you’re answering your own question. If you are not confident in your gear/setup, that is not good. A dot gun does require some retraining, if you will, and for me, moderately consistent weekly dry fire.
I’ve just had a master eye issue come up recently. It will get fixed, but I quickly experimented with an “irons gun”, as the dot just bloomed to an unacceptable level. With the irons, I just switched over to other eye. Gonna do a little dry fire here on the 4th to see if dot works single eyed, but I have an alternative.
Stick with what works for you…

[D-der]

Just curious, I know it's not for everyone but, have you tried carrying the 365 AIWB ?
For me anyway it's far more comfortable than pocket carrying and you could conceal
a 365 with a 407 /507K under a T shirt, or perhaps with a Mastermind Covert or Enigma
set up.

[TCinVA]

Does anyone else go back and forth between CCW’s with iron sights and a red dot? Will switching from one to another cause me any issues? I’ve read that with red dots one focuses on the target and with irons the focus is on the front sight. I guess I’m worried about the initial focus point of two different sighting systems being an issue. Or maybe there are other concerns I should have?

The first struggle most encounter is finding the dot on presentation since the RDS mounted on a slide offers you a very, very narrow window in which you can see the dot. Iron sights give you some idea where the gun is in relation to your eye even when grossly misaligned because you can actually see the iron sights in your peripheral vision. The dot doesn't show up unless you're pretty dialed in.

There are a few keys for ensuring that the gun is presenting properly to your eye and those will work for shooting irons as well.

One key is presenting the gun level to the target. Todd Green, the founder of this forum, taught a deliberate "press out" process that helped people find their sights more reliably on the draw. His words are better than mine, so I encourage you to read the following link on his blog:

https://pistol-training.com/all-or-nothing-press-outs/

If you watch this video of him performing a press out (I recommend slowing the video to see it) you'll notice that he presents the gun with the front sight high. What he was doing was essentially putting the front sight on what he wanted to hit and he rotated the rear of the gun up to put the notch of the rear sight around the front sight:


https://youtu.be/Nl4tbMHF3xk

With a dot, that will result in only seeing your dot at the last instant at essentially full extension. That tends to be insufficient time for most people to be comfortable making a shot.

If you revise the technique a little bit and drive the rear sight into your eyeline as quickly as possible, it causes the gun to present more flat so you have more time to see your sight picture with the front sight in the rear notch...or, if you are running a dot, you can see the dot much, much earlier and refine from there.

Todd's health problems sidelined him from doing any serious pistol work (his elbow eventually had to be replaced because cancer destroyed the joint) as the RDS pistol was rising in popularity. Had Todd not been distracted from further development by the cancer that would ultimately take him from us, he'd have worked with the dot and made the same refinement in the way he presented the gun that I described: Driving the rear sight into the eyeline as quickly as possible instead of presenting with his front sight proud. That would have allowed him to find the dot.

The L shaped (or sometimes described as J shaped once people get familiar with the press out and become more efficient) press-out draw combined with some other refinements on technique helps people reliably find sights on presentation in a useful time frame.

Most people do not have a carefully built draw that has thought through the circumstances they are going to be using it in. The very few who have carefully built their draw are usually enthusiasts and competitors. Competitors use more of an "index" draw that relies on significant amounts of dryfire to build and sustain. Without that sort of work I find people can't really do an index draw, especially with the complications of concealment.

If you work on the level press out, you'll be able to reliably find your irons or an optic at your speed.

Where I find the most impact on my shooting between dots and irons is when trying to shoot a multiple shot sequence at maximum speed. In other words, if I'm shooting sub 1/4 second splits (.25 second or less per shot) I have a harder time seeing the irons to time the next shot, so I end up pushing some shots high because I got ahead of my recoil control and broke a shot with the sight still elevated well outside the notch. And this really only manifests on very small targets I'm trying to shoot at maximum speed. If I slow down to a pace of about a third of a second per shot, I see a settled sight and can make a very precise called shot.

The dot is a glowing ball that you can see very easily even in recoil (assuming your grip is good) and you can literally watch it bounce around the target area without any real effort. It's a lot like a laser in that respect.

Does that difference have any significant implications for defensive shooting? None that I can see. So I don't worry about it.

Of course, that's on a similar pistol carried a similar way. There's a pretty big difference in everything on a typical 9mm Glock and a J frame, so there are more differences in performance when I'm using the J frame pocket gun vs. a duty sized semi-auto.

[TCinVA]

I’d be really reluctant to add a red dot to the P365. Like others have posted, I can’t carry the P365 in blue jean shorts but it fits (size and weight) perfectly in basic cotton shorts front pocket in a Mika pocket holster. I do worry about the cut of the pocket opening snagging a red dot, lint accumulation in a red dot, and adding any additional weight. The standard P365 is right at the limit of what I’m willing to everyday and everywhere pocket carry; I don’t want to put myself in a position to skip carrying it because it’s “too heavy for this quick trip, too bulky just to walk down the street, etc”.

In general I find that semi-autos are sub-optimal for carry in my pockets...even small ones. I tried a bunch and gave up some time ago, sticking with a J frame for that duty because of how hard it was to get a proper grip on the gun in the pocket and how often it would snag attempting to draw it.

I can't see an RDS mounted to the slide making pocket carry better, personally.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Just personally, I carry a G26 Gen 3 with Trijicon night sights for EDC, OWB (my body type) or a J frame if dress necessitates pocket carry or just puttering around the yard. It's a 642 with CT laser grip or a 432 with its integral irons. With the latter, I painted the front sight orange. It's been a Gen 4 G17 with irons for USPSA and IDPA for years (sometimes a 1911 with three dot irons or an exotic SW 632 with a fiber optic front sight as an 'outlaw' club match gun - I've carried these two maybe three times each, just because).

I recently have put together a G17 with an SRO but am nowhere near being instinctive with. Anyway, it is too big for me (personal view) for EDC. Also, AIWB doesn't appeal to me and I'll skip that discussion.

I shoot irons pretty well. In USPSA I usually shoot alphas and charlies. I'll see how the RDS works out. I doubt that I will go to the expense of getting an RDS G26 or other smaller Glock. Training since 1994 with irons seems good enough but that is an empirical question to be tested.

I have a G42 - I don't like it for pocket carry as much as the Js for the grip issue. I have worn it on my belt when my old damn back acted up.

Anyway, to whine, concealed carry will become impractical in Sept. due to the new NYS laws. So why get anything new?

[CDW4ME]

I’m not sure if it’s a medical issue or just that I’m overly sensitive to heat but on hot days there’s no way I can wear an over shirt. I’m currently living in central Florida. My primary cover shirts are the very lightweight Eddie Bauer moisture wicking shirts. They are very thin and lightweight but on hot humid days it’s still too much for me wear over a t-shirt while outside.

I'm 55 and live in FL.
Undergarment: A thin "wife beater" / tank under a cover shirt - forget a regular t-shirt.
Cover shirt: The "fishing" shirts at Bealls are thin and versions with a pattern or print helps break any bulge.
I wear long sleeve versions more than short sleeve, so I don't have to put sunscreen on my arms; but here is a short sleeve example.
And I can't tolerate snug shirts.
91044

[Clusterfrack]

Does anyone else go back and forth between CCW’s with iron sights and a red dot? Will switching from one to another cause me any issues? I’ve read that with red dots one focuses on the target and with irons the focus is on the front sight. I guess I’m worried about the initial focus point of two different sighting systems being an issue. Or maybe there are other concerns I should have?

If you're willing to practice, I do not think this is a problem. Iron sights are not going away, and I always want to be able to shoot guns without dots. I carry with a dot (P-07/509t2), and without a dot (Kahr p380, LCR9, G26). I compete with a dot (USPSA CO) and without a dot (USPSA Production).

I don't have a problem going back and forth between sighting systems at all--for a couple reasons:

1. I shoot iron sights with target focus. Blurry sights, sharp target. A couple years ago I switched to target focus irons based on Ben Stoeger's training, and it was maybe the single biggest advance I've made in my skills.

2. I dryfire regularly with the guns I compete with and carry. It doesn't take that much to keep fresh.

[4mykaren]

91048


Tritium XS standard dot on my G26

I use it like a shotgun front dot, 100% target focus everything, good/fast enough combat accuracy for civilians defensive distance within 10-15yrds.

Standard is the right size for my eyes, big dot is too big.

[G19Fan]

Some agencies went to SRO with BUIS with the thought that the shooting benefits outweigh the durability drawbacks.

If you look at the Jedi black belt standard list, a large percent used SROs on their presumably carry guns.

The Tier 1 holster guys do too.

I resisted going to dot on my AIWB carry gun for a while but on repeat objective testing I was just so much better with the dot enabled gun and from that holster position it didn’t add any significant bulk or weight.

The low light performance of a dot is what sold me. Think of dark parking garage or alley with poor contrast. Makes irons tough to be accurate with. Especially at speed.

This is spot on. 99% of the time I carry a g19 with a 509T. Very rarely will I carry a irons only g26

[G19Fan]

If you're willing to practice, I do not think this is a problem. Iron sights are not going away, and I always want to be able to shoot guns without dots. I carry with a dot (P-07/509t2), and without a dot (Kahr p380, LCR9, G26). I compete with a dot (USPSA CO) and without a dot (USPSA Production).

I don't have a problem going back and forth between sighting systems at all--for a couple reasons:

1. I shoot iron sights with target focus. Blurry sights, sharp target. A couple years ago I switched to target focus irons based on Ben Stoeger's training, and it was maybe the single biggest advance I've made in my skills.

2. I dryfire regularly with the guns I compete with and carry. It doesn't take that much to keep fresh.

I swapped to target focus on irons too. Learning curve for sure but interesting

[Bucky]

I don't have a problem going back and forth between sighting systems at all--for a couple reasons:


Another thing that is good practice for me, is when I shoot steel challenge I usually sign up for a dual entry. It’s either open / limited or carry optics / production. Either of those options allow me to use the same rig. I don’t wanna be changing rigs in the middle of the stage.

In the above scenario, I am literally going from optic to iron and back over and over again during the course of the match.

[Utm]

Some agencies went to SRO with BUIS with the thought that the shooting benefits outweigh the durability drawbacks.

If you look at the Jedi black belt standard list, a large percent used SROs on their presumably carry guns.

The Tier 1 holster guys do too.

I resisted going to dot on my AIWB carry gun for a while but on repeat objective testing I was just so much better with the dot enabled gun and from that holster position it didn’t add any significant bulk or weight.

The low light performance of a dot is what sold me. Think of dark parking garage or alley with poor contrast. Makes irons tough to be accurate with. Especially at speed.
Fort Worth pd recently had an entire academy class get SRO's issued on direct milled glocks. Direct mill done by Vulcan Machine Werks

[UNM1136]

If you don't practice than picking one and sticking with it is what I advocate.

At various times in my career I have had stupid rules to follow, which got dangerously close to the dreadded "carry rotation". With 10-15 minutes dry fire I had no problem strapping on a 1911 on my time while carrying a Sig229 at work. Or a small revolver in gym clothes and a dotted semi at work. I have AIWB, IWB, and OWB at 3:00-4:30 holsters that I use depending on where I am carrying a gun, why, and what else I am wearing.

I am pretty agnostic about what guns I carry and where on my body I carry them..

I can't think of once that I went to the wrong spot for a draw, or forgot a safety, a decock, or to thumb a Gadget. Mindful, daily dry work helps.

I definately have my preferences, but very few requirements.

pat

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

Good topic - and one that I’ve though a lot about since moving to dots ~ 2 years ago. I think a lot of it comes down to your risk profile : context : baseline skill and ability to meet acceptable proficiency threshold.

If you are in the profession of arms, lead a higher risk lifestyle, possess marginal proficiency or set a very high proficiency threshold then keeping the sighting system (dot : dot) and platform the same is highly recommended. It’s also the fastest way to improve.

On the other hand - while I fully appreciate and embrace the above when possible (compete with and carry as situation dictates a LTT RDO w surefire x300 AIWB), I personally lead a low risk lifestyle and have small kids so it’s very common for me to pocket carry a 642 w/ CT grips and my shivworks CP while at a quiet suburban park. While I know I’m breaking convention, and am much less capable than I am with my LTT, I justify that risk is low and enjoying my time with my kids running around without being distracted by my kit is worth the trade off in that situation to me. Conversely going on a date night to the movies without the kids = LTT RDO w x300 since it’s dark, risk is slightly higher, and I want more capacity and shoot ability.

Fwiw I think for most proficient shooters who have trigger time with dots and irons switching platforms is probably a bigger disruption than switching sightings systems (especially if you shoot irons target focused). I’ve also noticed that for me since I have 10 years shooting production in USPSA and just recently started shooting dots it still feels very natural to move back to irons from dots. Almost like transitioning from RDS on rifle to irons on a pistol many years ago [emoji6].

Finally, the higher your skills baseline the more room you have to degrade from switching sighting systems / platforms while staying above your self indicated performance level threshold. I guess that’s my long winded way of saying staying consistent is best (dot : dot and same platform) but for me I don’t feel constrained to do that in every situation.

My LTT RDO pair
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220705/23837f726c3baf9b3fbea78df8c1d632.jpg

[TheNewbie]

To pick up Casey's point:

Absent a medical condition, the types of shirts he described, or even a step farther, something guayabera like with a square bottom in linen/cotton/poly blend wick enough to be be reasonable comfortable, cool and fashionable without being tactical teddy looking at all.


I say this who does this in the KCMO area where we can have 80 plus degrees and/or 80% humidity on any given day from April thru September.

I am in a state of transition and am carrying a G17 w and RDS most frequently, an iron sighted G19 and an iron sighted G35 the rest of the time. I suspect I will RDS the vast majority of the time by the end of 2023.

Purpose designed holster with a purposed designed belt.

https://www.amazon.com/MAXJON-Guayabera-Shirts-Sleeve-Shirt%EF%BC%88Blue/dp/B09D7Y3RCX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1TLDHR7CU1UA2&keywords=guayabera&qid=1656890259&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011%2Cp_36%3A2661612011&rnid=2661611011&s=apparel&sprefix=guayabera%2Caps%2C201&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyS01FQ0lXUUZFWkJTJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzczMjQxNzBXNkNDNlU3Wk9QJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3Njg5NDBHTEtYVFZZQk9ENksmd2lkZ2V0T mFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3R Mb2dDbGljaz10cnVl



Have you tried these specific shirts? The ones I have found in Mexico would do a decent job except that you can see through them. These appear to be darker.

[vcdgrips]

I have not. I have had them or others on my list and have never pulled the trigger

Should I try one, I will post up. Please do the same.

Fully concur re the "vintage" ones I have from MEX are too thin, at least in white and off white.

[HeavyDuty]

I bounce back and forth between irons and RDS without any issues so far, but I’d like to try a class that introduces stress to see how well I can manipulate a RDS when things get dicey. My smaller RDS equipped guns were all milled with no backup irons.

[ECK]

I was an iron-sight guy for a long time, including about 10 years shooting competition in various iron-sight divisions. My conversion to RDS was largely forced on me due to aging eye-sight. About 5-6 years ago I started wearing Clic readers to see things up close (reading, phone, or computer screen). I did play around with some safety glasses that had .5 diopter lenses which helped me stay with irons for another year or so, but eventually my up-close vision progressively got worse and my daily readers are now 2.25 diopter. So for the most part I’ve switched to red dots for my competition guns. Every now and then I shoot an iron division (i.e Prod at 2020 Locap Nats and SS at this year’s Classic Nats) and I wear safety glasses with 1.0 diopter lenses (roughly half the strength of my readers). Without the corrected lenses I can see the front sight but it takes my eyes too long to focus on the front sight post and target focus for me only works out to 7-10 yds. At Nats there are usually too many partials and mini poppers at 17-22 yds for that to work…

3-4 years ago I also started putting red dots on my carry guns. If I use my regular readers to shoot iron sights the front sight is well in focus but the target is too blurry. I started with a P10C (roughly Glock 19 size) with a RMR, but eventually settled on a 365XL w/ HS407K as my go-to EDC carry and periodically will shoot a match with it for practice. Also have a LTT RDO w/ RMR by the bedside.

I do have a Glock 43 irons-only that lives in my mtn biking pack bc it’s small and lightweight, but truth be told it’s bc I haven’t gotten around to having it milled or get a 356X. 95% of the time I’m EDC-ing a gun with a RDS.

[TheNewbie]

I have not. I have had them or others on my list and have never pulled the trigger

Should I try one, I will post up. Please do the same.

Fully concur re the "vintage" ones I have from MEX are too thin, at least in white and off white.


I think I’m going to order one of the blue ones. It looks more opaque than the ones from Mexico but only trying one will tell me for sure. If I do it I’ll post up the results here.