Shotgun/pistol match

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Shot an interesting match yesterday. The format was 15 steel with your shotgun, ground your shotgun safely and 10 USPSA pistol targets. Slinging the shotgun was out because of many having little shotgun experience. More on that.

I shot my 90's Winchester 1300 Defender with a fiber optic front sight. We loaded five rounds to start and reloaded as necessary. I wore a pouch that you could fit a box of shells into. Some folks had bandoliers or all kinds of plastic round holders on their belts. Problem with the latter is not holding enough rounds. #8 rounds.

Surprisingly, some long time USPSA competitors don't have shotguns and never even fired one. Their life is pop,pop,pop handguns in 9mm. My handgun was a G17.

Takeways, fast reloading is perishable skill - haven't shot the gun since 2019. A couple of fumbles. Hitting the targets - no problem on the poppers, a TX star took a couple of extra. The problems people had was with reloading, dropping rounds, jammed up ramps.

I got the Defender way back when - If I were into it seriously, might go with a semi, however the current market and retirement account says to be cautious. One comment on the gun - the tiny bolt release is pain. Not designed for fast usage.

One guy shot a pistol grip 20 gauge. Silly gun. Lots of racking to scare, don't have to aim crap from the non shotgun shooters. To replay an old debate, if I reach for a long gun for the Zombie attack, it's still my carbine. Blah, blah. If the local bear comes by, maybe the shotgun - very, very low probability of such. Just call the cops.

Still lots of fun. No significant bruises on the shoulder, I know how to settle the gun. One guy fired a 12 gauge and was really knocked back a foot. Laughter ensued. Didn't have it well seated.

We should do that again. I'm going to buy some more 12 gauge snap caps and practice the reload. Have to go in the basement so the wife doesn't yell at me for the rash of clicks.

Nice day in the 70's. Not like my old shooting days in the 100's now ravaging Texas. Biggest pain, hauling everything back into the house and putting the equipment back in the proper place.

[ECK]

If you found that interesting you should give 3-gun a try. Not all stages require all three guns, some require 2 (i.e. shotgun/pistol, or carbine/pistol).

There was a time IMO when shotgun loading (not the shooting) was the biggest challenge to get proficient at 3-gun. That’s one of the reasons I suspect more people gravitated towards 2-gun matches (carbine/pistol). When I first started shooting 3-gun the two choices were 1) Open Division with tube speed loaders and people would carry 5-6 speed loaders like arrows in a quiver on their hip, or 2) Scope-tactical Division and would load their SG by grabbing 3-4 shells out of a caddy and thumb them in one at a time. It was painfully slow unless you spent a lot of time practicing. This was before box-fed shotguns patterned off AKs or ARs became popular.

Then as the years went by people started loading two shells at the same time (aka dropping deuces), which then progressed to quad-loading (dropping deuces X 2) and the slow-down caused by loading shotgun started to diminish rapidly. I chased that technique for a few years, buying different shell caddies that stacked two shells lengthwise so you could grab them to ‘drop a deuce’ or even grabbing two double stacks for quad-loading. I even have a cummerbund that held 10 double-stacks of 12 ga shells across my mid-section. Depending on the stage, carrying enough shotgun shells on you in addition to pistol and AR mags became a challenge for somebody with a 34” waist. You also had to hog out the loading port on your shotgun to allow for the two stacked shells to be shoved in there….

Then AR and AK pattern mag fed shotguns that were reliable started to come onto the scene, and about that time I dropped out in lieu of other competition shooting matches (USPSA, PRS, PRS Rimfire, etc.).

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Good idea. I've done three gun a few times in TX. Not here. It's a bit far from home and I have to stick close for personal care of someone reasons. Maybe the local USPSA club would give it a try. It would take me quite a bit of practice to get up to speed on a shotgun. I'm decent with a carbine having shot carbine matches for years in TX. I don't know if I want to buy the shotgun gear that the committed use. I dunno.

Running around now isn't my strength as I've indicated in the past. I'm into tactical strolling. Might end up in an adult stroller in real time. I'm going to master the RDS gun as my next project. Loaded up the stuff for a USPSA production attempt tomorrow.

[MVS]

At my local gun club we run 2 gun matches twice a month. One is rifle/pistol, the other is shotgun/pistol. This is a members only thing because we aren't a big enough club to open it up. One thing I will say, people learn a lot at these matches because for the most part we get people new to competing, and in a lot of cases, people just flat out new to using what they have.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This isn't a great insight but for folks who push the shotgun cliche for HD and have never tried one in a speeded, multi-target scenario - a match or a class is quite an experience. I'm pushing for them to do it again. Looking at snap cap prices for some loading practice - they are expensive. Well, that's relative - probably as much as going out to a good dinner for 6 of them.

One thing some of us noted was that after the 15 shotgun targets, you couldn't even feel the handgun recoil. It was like the gun didn't even go off. Some folks chose not to shoot shotgun but just their USPSA gear to get more practice with that. That missed the point. More to gun life than pop, pop, pop. Gotta like the BOOM!

[ECK]

Years ago a friend of mine who has a shotshell loader made me 16 dummy rounds for reloading practice. That helped me practice ‘dropping deuces’.

The other thing about SG shooting is remembering to count rounds because every now and then at my local matches we would set up a clay pigeon flipper triggered off a popper. Sucked to rip thru the poppers then swing on the clay only to be at bolt lock-back….

My SG is a Bennelli M2 w/ 26 bbl and a Nordic Component extension for a total of 10 in the tube. Loading port was hogged out to give my thumb clearance to shove in two stacked shells. I also have a ‘match saver’ shell holder mounted right in front of the ejection port to quickly drop in an extra round if I ran dry.

[03RN]

Years ago a friend of mine who has a shotshell loader made me 16 dummy rounds for reloading practice. That helped me practice ‘dropping deuces’.

The other thing about SG shooting is remembering to count rounds because every now and then at my local matches we would set up a clay pigeon flipper triggered off a popper. Sucked to rip thru the poppers then swing on the clay only to be at bolt lock-back….

My SG is a Bennelli M2 w/ 26 bbl and a Nordic Component extension for a total of 10 in the tube. Loading port was hogged out to give my thumb clearance to shove in two stacked shells. I also have a ‘match saver’ shell holder mounted right in front of the ejection port to quickly drop in an extra round if I ran dry.

Then do a speed reload. Counting rounds is folly.

[03RN]

https://youtu.be/rIK1v_cynS4

https://youtu.be/UevW_PJ3iHs
I wish there were more shotgun matches around.

[ECK]

Then do a speed reload. Counting rounds is folly.

Speed reload while a popper is in the air? I was decently fast but not that fast….

[Duelist]

Speed reload while a popper is in the air? I was decently fast but not that fast….

Before the last popper would make more sense.

[ECK]

Before the last popper would make more sense.

Hence counting rounds so you knew when you needed to shuck another shell or two into the tube.

[Duelist]

Hence counting rounds so you knew when you needed to shuck another shell or two into the tube.

Not counting rounds - pausing and reloading a round (or two or three) before you hit the last popper that triggers the thrown aerial target is just good sense for running the stage, if you know it’s going to do that. Doesn’t matter if the last shell in he gun at that moment is in the chamber, or if there are already several still in the tube.

[ECK]

I’m going to have to partly disagree. Pausing mid-array is essentially a standing reload. Not something I would want to do as part of my stage plan.

This is hard to discuss without an actual stage to use as an example, but say you had an array of 6 KDs in the first array directly downrange from the start position, then lateral movement of 10-15’ to array 2 where there are 3 poppers 1 of which activates the clay flipper.

Let’s say the division I’m shooting has a max capacity of 8+1 at the start signal. After shooting the first array I should be down 6 with 1 in the chamber and 2 left in the tube. If I went straight to engaging the poppers & clay in array 2 I’d be in the situation of being one short with the bolt locked back which adds an extra second to the reload unless you’re shooting one of those Brownings where the bolt trips forward when you slap the loading gate. So I would plan my stage so that when moving from array 1 to array 2 I’d shove in a double stack (but probably 2 stacks if there is a 3rd array after the poppers) so I have enough to engage the poppers & clay in the next array. Maybe this is the equivalent of your ‘pausing and reloading a round or three’. For me, it’s keeping track of how many shells I’ve shot and how many more I need to load.

I shot USPSA Single Stack division for a few years and the general rule of thumb is reload whenever you move. Since the round count in SS is similar to shooting a shotgun, I kind of do the same thing and start shoving in pairs of shells whenever I’m moving to the next position. Knowing how many pairs to shove in depends on how many have been shot to that point so I’m not wasting time trying to cram more into the tube than it will take.