Department exodus articles

[LittleLebowski]

Seattle Police crisis worsens, on track to lose nearly 200 cops this year

https://mynorthwest.com/3501228/rantz-seattle-police-staff-crisis-exodus-200/

[LittleLebowski]

Chicago police ‘brain drain’? Retirements have stabilized, but 660 cops retired in 2021, almost twice as many as in 2018


https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-cpd-police-retirements-20220328-vfyqfwyuazgspjlszucyhchzoy-story.html

[Lon]

It’s happening around here as well. Departments close to me are having to pull School Resource Officers and Detectives out of their special assignments so they can staff patrol.

[LittleLebowski]

San Francisco police chief explains what's driving dire staffing issues; nearly 600 officers short

https://abc7news.com/sfpd-staffing-shortages-san-francisco-police-department-crime-in-sf-officers-bay-area/11746659/

[snow white]

Our local PD has grown and their are talks of building a whole new police department building in the near future. Small towns are awesome.
We also have an absurdly low crime rate... strange how supporting your local police has that effect.

[SWAT Lt.]

San Francisco police chief explains what's driving dire staffing issues; nearly 600 officers short

https://abc7news.com/sfpd-staffing-shortages-san-francisco-police-department-crime-in-sf-officers-bay-area/11746659/

Same kind of BS being spoken by my old department who is hundreds of officers short. What else can they say? They aren't going to say it's because of the mayor, or the administration is a joke, or goofy and overly restrictive policies, or lack of support, or crimes not being prosecuted, lack of cash bail, or all of the above. And, they will never mention the community and city council disdain for the police who have been villainized. The pay may be lower but these are NOT the real reasons certain departments are short. A lot of officers from my old job are leaving and going to surrounding area departments where the pay may be higher or may be lower, but they are supported and criminals are prosecuted. Those departments are fully staffed and have a large number of applicants for any vacancies.

[AMC]

Same kind of BS being spoken by my old department who is hundreds of officers short. What else can they say? They aren't going to say it's because of the mayor, or the administration is a joke, or goofy and overly restrictive policies, or lack of support, or crimes not being prosecuted, lack of cash bail, or all of the above. And, they will never mention the community and city council disdain for the police who have been villainized. The pay may be lower but these are NOT the real reasons certain departments are short. A lot of officers from my old job are leaving and going to surrounding area departments where the pay may be higher or may be lower, but they are supported and criminals are prosecuted. Those departments are fully staffed and have a large number of applicants for any vacancies.

In the particular case from the article, you are absolutely correct. Traditional financial incentives will not lure or retain officers in SF. In 1990, when I took the Civil Service Exam for the PD at the Civic Auditorium, there were 3000 people there that day. A few weeks ago, we had 7 people show up. We're almost 600 short (from a department that was over 2200 just 5 years ago), and 565 people are eligible to retire this month. I just had my retirement counseling appointment with the city Retirement system. It was an online meeting for a group of people (used to be one on one in person). It had been postponed twice because the office is overwhelmed with demand. Of the prospective retirees in my group, I was the only one with 30 years.

Resignations by young officers are outpacing retirements by close to 2 to 1. And we can't get even 20 people into an academy class. This time next year, there's gonna be 1000 cops left in The City. This attrition rate, and the cascade failure that it creates, is why I say it's likely in 3 years there's no PD left in SF.

The command staff visited some stations recently and informed the troops that to deal with the constant uncertainty of being held over, they're going to 14 hr shifts across the board. Mandatory minimum 16 hrs of OT a week for all. That let's people plan, they said. And to help the guys with crazy long commutes? They're gonna put containers full of sleep pods at the district stations so you don't even need to go home between shifts! Isn't that super?

There's no fixing it at this point. It will take a complete cultural and political shift in the city to make a change. I estimate that's 35-40 years away....so good luck to them.

[littlejerry]

There's no fixing it at this point. It will take a complete meltdown in the city to make a change. I estimate that's 35-40 years away....so good luck to them.

Fixed it for you. There has to be a point where the city population realizes there is no PD left. Summer of love 2023?

[Totem Polar]

Everything in this thread was predicted by esteemed LE/former LE members of this forum a couple of years ago. Turns out that our guys knew of what they spoke, to no real surprise.

[Gadfly]

In my office in Houston we had a little over 200 agents. We had 17 retire last year. 13 have put in paper to go this year.

We got two new hires right before the pandemic, and we have one new hire in the academy now. With about 8 people transferred in from other offices. We can't sustain this pace of loss. At least folks want to apply for our agency. But they still have to pass all the background, education, credit checks, PT test, credit checks, etc.... Fletc is running as many as they can through, but the retirements are just snowballing.

We did massive hiring post 9/11 to build DHS. Now, we are seeing all these hires who came on post 9/11/01 hit their 20yrs, and why stick around for the headache of the current political situation when they will pay you to sit at home for the rest of your life. Massive exodus are still coming for all DHS entities. Especially Border Patrol.

[Erick Gelhaus]

And while smaller departments don't show the same numbers, they're seeing the same impacts. Watch staffing fall to the point that you no longer have Day, Swing, & Grave shifts, instead it's 12-hour Days & Graves. Cut out some detective units and then don't maintain staffing in others. Just saw three guys bail from my old org - one (with a lot of potential will be selling real estate in TN) and two others left for agencies in ID and MT.

Even with getting some laterals in, the incoming numbers are not overtaking the losses.

[BehindBlueI's]

For the first time in living memory we are losing people to surrounding agencies. It has *always* flowed the other way, but now people will accept a $9k pay cut to be not here. Policies and outdated equipment are oft cited reasons. Our rookies are still in CVPIs...

Our policies aren't over restrictive, but we now have so much more documentation in place. You do a special report for a pursuit, another special report for a foot pursuit, another special report for a use of force, plus the actual report for the incident. Never has so little been measured so much, and it takes the street officer out of service for so long nobody wants to do proactive work because your beat partners will shit on you for having to take your mundane runs while you are out of service.

Plus our prosecutor sucks.

No way I'm starting over or taking that kind of pay cut, but I get why street guys with 3-7 years on would.

[Hambo]

Everything in this thread was predicted by esteemed LE/former LE members of this forum a couple of years ago. Turns out that our guys knew of what they spoke, to no real surprise.

The largest department in this county used to draw from the SO and smaller PDs. They pay very well, and have educational incentives and other perks. For years, they didn't hire anyone without prior training. Now they're willing to hire, then train recruits. This is about 400 sworn in a city where the crime rate is stupid low and citizen support is high. No BLM protests to speak of, no officers fired or indicted for OIS. If they have to change to get new hires, it's a fucking bad sign.

[HCM]

https://www.police1.com/police-recruiting/articles/illinois-survey-finds-crisis-in-police-recruitment-and-retention-tiq5if6IbrHafPuM/?fbclid=IwAR1o2UfwdWhLuOpzst5BdD37VwyK6HZ2R37P6xfZ ibll0sENtHLZR0jkGlE

Illinois survey finds crisis in police recruitment and retention “We can only steal from each other for so long.”


QUALITATIVE COMMENTS

Here are a few of the comments from individual agencies about changes in applicants since 2015, the year after Ferguson:

“Fewer than 20% passed the background phase.”
“The quality is much poorer.”
“Our washout rate has flipped. We have gone from 20%-25% background failure to 70%-75% failure (criminal histories; significant application dishonesty)”
“Significantly decreasing. It is a crisis!”
“We are currently attempting to renew our two-year hire list. After nine weeks, we have received one application.”
“The more college graduates that apply, the less likely they are to want to work nights and weekends. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by wanting to work here.”
“I am starting a lateral eligibility list because our academies in Illinois have so much demand that it is impossible to get all of my recruits into the academies in a timely manner."
“We can only steal from each other for so long.”

[Vista461]

There are places in my county paying part timers close to or same as what I make as a Sergeant.
If I didn’t have such a great Chief, I’d leave too.
I work in a good area, but our small town politics and cutting budgets of our department, when everyone else is stepping up pay, are definitely not helping things. Especially when they say they aren’t defunding when they only cut our budget. :confused:

[DaBigBR]

All of these places are treating symptoms like causes. Staffing sucks because people are leaving. Crime is going up because staffing sucks. Etc.

How about people are leaving because they don't trust the cities they work for and the politicians and bureaucrats that run them. They don't want to deal with being vilified by the media over eight seconds worth of cell phone video and then not supported by the department or the city.

None of this is a mystery to anybody that is within a country mile of it. No amount of beards, tattoos, signing bonuses, or blind pride about the name on the side of the car fixes it.

[SoCalDep]

How about people are leaving because they don't trust the cities they work for and the politicians and bureaucrats that run them.

Look at that nail… it got hit right on the head.

People think I’m a bit nuts buying a house I’ve never seen in a state I’ve never set foot in. There is some work time left but the word refugee doesn’t sound so far from the truth. The eject handle is getting ready to be pulled… it’ll be ten-ish years early but that’s ok… We’ve planned for this and it’s gonna be rad. The exodus is real, it’s pervasive, and it’s going to ruin a lot of communities.

Sad thing is it’s exactly what those communities voted for.

[BehindBlueI's]

https://www.police1.com/police-recruiting/articles/illinois-survey-finds-crisis-in-police-recruitment-and-retention-tiq5if6IbrHafPuM/?fbclid=IwAR1o2UfwdWhLuOpzst5BdD37VwyK6HZ2R37P6xfZ ibll0sENtHLZR0jkGlE

Illinois survey finds crisis in police recruitment and retention “We can only steal from each other for so long.”


On the topic of background failures, I've heard through Ye Olde Rumor Mill that the #1 thing kicking people out of the process now is *drum roll* ...... jerking off at work. Apparently the excuse given is 'stress relief' for the why of it. I'm not sure when they started asking about work-jerks, but apparently it's failing more people then drug use now.

[DaBigBR]

The other thing I've started to notice is an increase in relatively outspoken sheriffs. I think that's a function of not serving at the pleasure of a city manager or mayor coupled with some understanding that likely voters in sheriff's races, at least that do not coincide with major national elections are going to land a little more on the law and order side.

What seemed like it used to be just Joe Arpaio and maybe Grady Judd now includes a number of others. Even Alex Villanueva has had a lot to say about the challenges the cops face at the hands of the board of supervisors, city councils, and district attorney. It kind of reminds me of some of the revolt happening among some of the liberal media talking heads. A lot of the stuff Bill Maher says anymore is remarkably logical for a guy that you would have once thought was about as liberal as they come.

Strange times.

[HCM]

On the topic of background failures, I've heard through Ye Olde Rumor Mill that the #1 thing kicking people out of the process now is *drum roll* ...... jerking off at work. Apparently the excuse given is 'stress relief' for the why of it. I'm not sure when they started asking about work-jerks, but apparently it's failing more people then drug use now.

Who wants to work with a bunch of jerk offs?

Seriously, assuming this is on the polygraph? I could see asking about this as an impulse control issue.

This strikes me as something that either came from a psychologist or came from me disciplinary trend.

[BehindBlueI's]

Who wants to work with a bunch of jerk offs?

Seriously, assuming this is on the polygraph? I could see asking about this as an impulse control issue.

This strikes me as something that either came from a psychologist or came from me disciplinary trend.

Yup, on the poly. I assume it came from the shrink.

[camel]

Yup, on the poly. I assume it came from the shrink.

I’m more concerned on the poly. And I’m not Le. Wtf

[Totem Polar]

I'm not sure when they started asking about work-jerks, but apparently it's failing more people then drug use now.

Sort of an offbeat line of questioning...








;)

[jnc36rcpd]

Sadly, my former agency is suffering from self-inflicted wounds fired by the chief of police. The agency is strongly supported by the mayor, council, and seemingly the citizens, but the chief's left-wing thinking and draconian policies make the place a hellhole for those there. The plan for retaining officers is to start internal investigations on those believed to be looking elsewhere. Shifts are running short and there is allegedly thought on reimplementing the much-hated twelve hour shift plan to maintain staffing.

I wonder if the masturbation at work issue comes from literal interpretation of concerns about sexual relationships in the workplace.

On a somewhat lighter note, I will remark on the culture shock moving to a retirement job at a campus public safety department. A supervisor told me about his investigation of a report that a library aide had sexual congress with some hot exchange student in a back room at the library. (If it was consensual, this is our concern rather than his boss's, why?)After two officers had gotten a "confession" from hot exchange students on the details of the encounter, the sergeant broke the case by recovering physical evidence of safe sex from a waste basket in said back room.

Two thoughts come to mind, one being that I've done some dirty, disgusting things to recover evidence in my career and I will again if needed. That said, if anyone thinks I'm dumpster diving to recover physical evidence of two college students banging, they've got another think coming. Second, if I'd hooked up with some hot exchange student in a back room when I was a college library aideforty some years ago, I'd still be bragging about it.

[Paul Blackburn]

For the first time in living memory we are losing people to surrounding agencies. It has *always* flowed the other way, but now people will accept a $9k pay cut to be not here. Policies and outdated equipment are oft cited reasons. Our rookies are still in CVPIs...

Our policies aren't over restrictive, but we now have so much more documentation in place. You do a special report for a pursuit, another special report for a foot pursuit, another special report for a use of force, plus the actual report for the incident. Never has so little been measured so much, and it takes the street officer out of service for so long nobody wants to do proactive work because your beat partners will shit on you for having to take your mundane runs while you are out of service.

Plus our prosecutor sucks.

No way I'm starting over or taking that kind of pay cut, but I get why street guys with 3-7 years on would.

Bureaucracy is a killer.

But at least no one is responsible for all the failures...

[Hambo]

Some of these problems are a generational issue.



“We are currently attempting to renew our two-year hire list. After nine weeks, we have received one application.”
“The more college graduates that apply, the less likely they are to want to work nights and weekends. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by wanting to work here.”


A buddy who is a retired firefighter says his department had less than ten applicants for the last test. That can't be a good sign.


On the topic of background failures, I've heard through Ye Olde Rumor Mill that the #1 thing kicking people out of the process now is *drum roll* ...... jerking off at work. Apparently the excuse given is 'stress relief' for the why of it. I'm not sure when they started asking about work-jerks, but apparently it's failing more people then drug use now.

We're dealing with a generation that has been watching porn on their phones since they were kids, and now you want them to go eight hours without masturbating?

[TGS]

Some of these problems are a generational issue.

There's no shortage of college graduates that are willing to work nights/weekends if it offers what they're looking for in return.

Working Monday through Friday, then having to work Saturday and Sunday too on top of that, isn't going to cut it.

In the past, people generally liked working weekend jobs because it typically meant shiftwork where you'd likely only be working 3-4 days a week total.....so you got something meaningful in return (more time off). When PDs are understaffed and the only people left working at PDs are miserable self-loathing individuals who self-medicate and are on their 4th marriage and respond to any/all problems with, "You're just a bunch of pussy zoomers", well......no shit when you don't get any qualified applicants.

This isn't a generational issue. That's an excuse for people stuck in a rut at a shit job to make themselves feel better about their own circumstances.

[Hambo]

There's no shortage of college graduates that are willing to work nights/weekends if it offers what they're looking for in return.

Working Monday through Friday, then having to work Saturday and Sunday too on top of that, isn't going to cut it.

In the past, people generally liked working weekend jobs because it typically meant shiftwork where you'd likely only be working 3-4 days a week total.....so you got something meaningful in return (more time off). When PDs are understaffed and the only people left working at PDs are miserable self-loathing individuals who self-medicate and are on their 4th marriage and respond to any/all problems with, "You're just a bunch of pussy zoomers", well......no shit when you don't get any qualified applicants.

This isn't a generational issue. That's an excuse for people stuck in a rut at a shit job to make themselves feel better about their own circumstances.

In the past, people worked the schedule because it was the schedule. They we started hiring guys that didn't like that they got less vacation than people with more seniority, so they used sick time as extra days off. It's definitely generational in that my generation expected to work our way up to better shift choices, days off etc, and these guys thought they should have it all on day 1.

And cops jerking off at work seems to be a product of the smartphone/internet porn generations.

And FWIW, I'm not stuck in anything, anymore, ya millennial bastid. ;)

[BigDaddy]

Chicago police ‘brain drain’? Retirements have stabilized, but 660 cops retired in 2021, almost twice as many as in 2018


https://www.chiagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-cpd-police-retirements-20220328-vfyqfwyuazgspjlszucyhchzoy-story.html

That number is incorrect. Remember, the Chicago Tribune or as we call it, The Chicago Fibune, is the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party in Chicago hence the incorrect number. They will say anything or print anything to minimize the damage the mutant on the 5th floor is doing to the City. The correct number is 904. We expect to have at least that number if not more leave this year. They gave an entrance test few weeks ago. Or tried to. 16 people showed up for the test.

[TGS]

In the past, people worked the schedule because it was the schedule. They we started hiring guys that didn't like that they got less vacation than people with more seniority, so they used sick time as extra days off. It's definitely generational in that my generation expected to work our way up to better shift choices, days off etc, and these guys thought they should have it all on day 1.

Management with your outlook/mindset have clearly addressed this issue in an effective manner, given all the good applicants and officers haven't said, "Fuck this shit, I'm out" and gone elsewhere with better opportunities.

[LittleLebowski]

Management with your outlook/mindset have clearly addressed this issue in an effective manner, given all the good applicants and officers haven't said, "Fuck this shit, I'm out" and gone elsewhere with better opportunities.

People are quitting everywhere in nearly every profession, but I can’t see what you named as the lone reason as why folks are not applying to be cops. I’m sure it’s a combo of a few things, especially the current political climate in many places where the cop is always wrong.

[Le Français]

"We want competent, compassionate, intelligent, knowledgeable, honest, courageous career cops. We also want them to be undertrained, underfunded, underpaid, understaffed, underequipped, derided, and maximally vulnerable at all times to ruinous litigation."

[TGS]

People are quitting everywhere in nearly every profession, but I can’t see what you named the lone reason as why folks are not applying to be cops. I’m sure it’s a combo of a few things, especially the current political climate in many places where the cop is always wrong.

I didn't say it was the lone reason as to why LE is having recruitment and retention issues.

Yeah, it all wraps up together. Back in the day, a recruit/new officer "bought into" a system with being the lowest on the totem pole. He would get the shit details/assignments, and work his way up as was mentioned. You also bought into a system that protected you to do your job effectively. You bought into a system where your rigid rules gave a sense of community, identity, and pride. Your progression from shit assignments to choice hours or choice details is something you could look at as a goal, and humans thrive on goals and ladders of progression. Comparative to other jobs on the market, the bennies also were pretty good....after putting in your time, you generally only had to work 3-4 shifts a week and would get time-off when you wanted, OT as you needed, etc.

Today, what does the average new hire buy into? What do they get in exchange for working shit hours with no end in sight, with a bunch of people who are miserable and either are just trying to hide until retirement or want to actively drag you down into their misery? They get to work their way into a special assignment where you work for 5 days a week and then have to show up to work to do patrol on your days off, or even change uniforms at the end of your plainclothes unit shift to work a patrol shift. Everything that was good about "buying into" that system has disappeared.

Like BBI's alluded to: People who can do better, do better. What's not helping is having a bunch of people running police departments and/or pushing a culture of "fuck you newbie, earn your way" when it's not possible for you to actually "earn" anything in return for sticking around...those are just miserable cunts that are trying to make you miserable too, because they feed on it.

ETA: Just to be clear, bad management practices make people leave jobs...and even within the realm of LE, people leave jobs in droves due to bad management even when not due to a liability-driven nature like patrol cops have to deal with: https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/union-demands-action-against-us-inspector-general-in-telework-spying-row/

The typical response from management types in the last few years is derision of the employees. That's not working out very well for management, as people who can do better will do better.

[John Hearne]

I see management in denial about recruitment and retention. I thought I had tapped into a pool of unhappy DC area cops who still wanted to do police work in a court system that let them work. They were used to working 12 hours shift and enjoyed the extra days off. We were offering 5-8's. The potential new guys would transfer for a 4-10 shift. Management decided that if they were that worried about schedule, we didn't want them. I see shift/schedule as hugely impactful on work-life-balance and an easy concession for us. I was not supported.

[Le Français]

I see management in denial about recruitment and retention. I thought I had tapped into a pool of unhappy DC area cops who still wanted to do police work in a court system that let them work. They were used to working 12 hours shift and enjoyed the extra days off. We were offering 5-8's. The potential new guys would transfer for a 4-10 shift. Management decided that if they were that worried about schedule, we didn't want them. I see shift/schedule as hugely impactful on work-life-balance and an easy concession for us. I was not supported.

USPP officers can transfer to your agency without doing a new academy, right? Too bad that didn’t work out.

[BigDaddy]

People are quitting everywhere in nearly every profession, but I can’t see what you named the lone reason as why folks are not applying to be cops. I’m sure it’s a combo of a few things, especially the current political climate in many places where the cop is always wrong.

It's hard to think positive or be excited about your job when your employer or political structure wants to fire you or even imprison you for simply doing your job.

[jnc36rcpd]

Another morale booster implemented by the fascist in charge of my former agency was his decision to allow laterals to take promotional tests. One former lieutenant at an adjacent county sheriff's office vaulted directly to lieutenant while a former sergeant from the same agency achieved his old rank in about a year. I've never met the guy, but I doubt he could possibly be that familiar with the reporting system, arrest procedures, or even how to get around the city without Google maps or a dri

Add to this is the perception among the troops that management will start an internal investigation on them if they learn an officer is looking elsewhere. On a couple of occasions, the chief demanded suspensions that would last longer than a retiring or resigning officer's planned departure from the agency. He became apoplectic when informed that would be impossible. In some good news, one larger county police department held a position open for the internal to be completed. Another officer famously used his three week suspension to apply for the agency where he'd attended the academy and which wanted him anyway. He never wore our uniform again and is an apparent rock star at his new department.

The handwriting is on the wall for officers sitting stagnant in officer or corporal positions.

[RJflyer]

I suppose I'm a part of the exodus. I loved my job in local LE up until the 2020 shenanigans post-George Floyd. I was a cop 4 days a week and a national guardsman 4 or 5 days a month. When I was out and about in the community wearing a military uniform, people smiled when they looked at me, thanked me for my service, offered to buy me lunch, etc. When I wore my police uniform, people looked at me like I was the grim reaper. The contrast was always there, but in 2020 it hit an extreme. It ultimately wasn't worth dealing with the low pay, crap retirement, midnight callouts, friend's funeral, and useless county attorney.

I left for a federal agency that most people have never heard of. I work cases that don't involve crowds of people screaming and filming me with their cell phones. The pay and retirement are double what I had at the PD. I rarely get called out to crime scenes after hours. The grass was definitely greener in my case.

[John Hearne]

USPP officers can transfer to your agency without doing a new academy, right? Too bad that didn’t work out.

They can. IIRC we even waive field training and just do an area orientation. We have worked 4-10’s before and backed off when we had vacancies these guys would have filled.

I did the coverage analysis and found that it reduced coverage by 3%. I’d take a 5% reduction to have competent, proven, proactive officers. That’s also why I’m not management material.

[Le Français]

I left for a federal agency that most people have never heard of. I work cases that don't involve crowds of people screaming and filming me with their cell phones. The pay and retirement are double what I had at the PD. I rarely get called out to crime scenes after hours. The grass was definitely greener in my case.

A lot more good cops are going to leave for 1811 jobs. It’s great for us, but the fact that we’re out there in the shadows (the shadows cast by mounds of paperwork) pursuing fraud/counterintel/conspiracy/etc. cases really doesn’t do much for the communities that really need a quick and capable response when they call 911.

[Nephrology]

This is about 400 sworn in a city where the crime rate is stupid low and citizen support is high. No BLM protests to speak of, no officers fired or indicted for OIS. If they have to change to get new hires, it's a fucking bad sign.

I am not in law enforcement but in medicine there is a lot of cynicism, burnout, and turnover in medicine that seems to follow a similar trend. two general themes that seem to jump out to me are a) A shitty job getting shittier and b) a generational attitude skewed towards personal reward ("lifestyle") vs a sense of obligation to the service of the public

Not certain if these trends apply in LE but it is interesting to read this conversation and notice parallels

[Totem Polar]

I am not in law enforcement but in medicine there is a lot of cynicism, burnout, and turnover in medicine that seems to follow a similar trend. two general themes that seem to jump out to me are a) A shitty job getting shittier and b) a generational attitude skewed towards personal reward ("lifestyle") vs a sense of obligation to the service of the public

Not certain if these trends apply in LE but it is interesting to read this conversation and notice parallels

I’m pretty sure that there are parallels in many lines of work. LE just happens to be a super-obvious example. Stevie Wonder could see what’s going on in local LE.

[whomever]

From the OP: "Consequently, the SPD stopped assigning adult sexual assault cases to detectives. As alarming, SPD’s Special Assault and Child Abuse Unit went from 12 detectives three years ago to just four."

Article with more details: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/seattle-police-halted-investigating-adult-sexual-assaults-this-year-internal-memo-shows/

The Powers That Be dispute that they are ignoring adult sex assaults, but my amateur reading between the lines makes me think the article is largely true.

Now, my political prognostications are usually about as accurate as those from pundits who do that for a living, i.e. 'Not Very', but still ... when someone's wife/aunt/adult daughter gets raped and the police don't have the time to investigate ... that's not viable. People will grumble year after year about potholes, but they just won't stand for rapes. Or when we lived in Seattle and were burgled, the responding officer was clear that nothing was going to happen other than the report getting filed. OK, I get it, my fellow taxpayers don't want to fund a team of detectives moving heaven and earth to find the guy who took our VCR. But your wife gets raped and there is no followup ... I just don't think that's going to be politically acceptable, even in Seattle.

[willie]

It’s happening around here as well. Departments close to me are having to pull School Resource Officers and Detectives out of their special assignments so they can staff patrol.

Hey Lon, same thing in my area. Today a police recruiter called me. I might apply. The local funeral home turned me down as a casket model. They said I looked like I was dead.:cool:

[BigDaddy]

I suppose I'm a part of the exodus. I loved my job in local LE up until the 2020 shenanigans post-George Floyd. I was a cop 4 days a week and a national guardsman 4 or 5 days a month. When I was out and about in the community wearing a military uniform, people smiled when they looked at me, thanked me for my service, offered to buy me lunch, etc. When I wore my police uniform, people looked at me like I was the grim reaper. The contrast was always there, but in 2020 it hit an extreme. It ultimately wasn't worth dealing with the low pay, crap retirement, midnight callouts, friend's funeral, and useless county attorney.

I left for a federal agency that most people have never heard of. I work cases that don't involve crowds of people screaming and filming me with their cell phones. The pay and retirement are double what I had at the PD. I rarely get called out to crime scenes after hours. The grass was definitely greener in my case.


I was privileged to work with and supervised some outstanding Police Officers. I remember thinking that the community which they serve really doesn't deserve them or the quality of service they provide.

[willie]

I am not in law enforcement but in medicine there is a lot of cynicism, burnout, and turnover in medicine that seems to follow a similar trend. two general themes that seem to jump out to me are a) A shitty job getting shittier and b) a generational attitude skewed towards personal reward ("lifestyle") vs a sense of obligation to the service of the public

Not certain if these trends apply in LE but it is interesting to read this conversation and notice parallels

I agree. In corporate medicine there are fewer docs who hit the grown running everyday. My provider is a giant which can be compared with Walmart. Corporate officials dictate policies. There is a top down administration giving small voice to employees. Corporate culture and the atmosphere that it projects is a source of fatigue and burnout. Having to treat hordes of non compliant patients also affects physicians. Family practice docs have this burden perhaps more than others.

[Erick Gelhaus]

On the topic of background failures, I've heard through Ye Olde Rumor Mill that the #1 thing kicking people out of the process now is *drum roll* ...... jerking off at work. Apparently the excuse given is 'stress relief' for the why of it. I'm not sure when they started asking about work-jerks, but apparently it's failing more people then drug use now.

I wouldn't blame the shrinks or the polygraphers.

05/12/2022

https://www.ktvu.com/news/san-jose-police-officer-faces-charges-for-masturbating-during-disturbance-call-d-a

SAN JOSE, Calif. - A San Jose police officer faces indecent exposure charges for allegedly masturbating at a family's home while responding to a disturbance call last month, officials say.

[LHS]

I agree. In corporate medicine there are fewer docs who hit the grown running everyday. My provider is a giant which can be compared with Walmart. Corporate officials dictate policies. There is a top down administration giving small voice to employees. Corporate culture and the atmosphere that it projects is a source of fatigue and burnout. Having to treat hordes of non compliant patients also affects physicians. Family practice docs have this burden perhaps more than others.

I see that every day in my day job (big corporate IT). Decisions being made by people with no clue about the actual technology or situation on the ground, leading to smart professionals calling it quits or just giving up and doing bare minimum to skate by. It's pretty demoralizing.

[rcbusmc24]

Well.... I just submitted a application to the Charlotte Mecklenburg PD. I'm a retired Marine infantry Gunnery Sgt with a 90 percent VA rating but I can still do the job... so I think. Probably a bad idea but I still want to do things for others, and for some stupid reason they won't let me be in the NC National Guard and still collect my retirement pay and VA benefits which is just stupid if you think about it for a minute... I like to think I'd be the best infantry rifleman the National Guard could ever get....I really just want to do infantry shit with the boys again... I miss it...

[jnc36rcpd]

Abandon hope all ye who enter here, rcbsusmc24. Good luck in the process, I'd do the same thing if I could because I really have no common sense. Of course, when I was a kid, the only career I considered other than being a cop was the Marine Corps so I guess we have that going on.

I know you'll miss the Corps and are disappointed you can't continue grunt work with the Guard, but you can still make a contribution. You've been around here (and the world) long enough to know the differences between policing and the infantry. Good luck, be safe, and keep us in the loop.

[DaBigBR]

From the OP: "Consequently, the SPD stopped assigning adult sexual assault cases to detectives. As alarming, SPD’s Special Assault and Child Abuse Unit went from 12 detectives three years ago to just four."

Article with more details: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/seattle-police-halted-investigating-adult-sexual-assaults-this-year-internal-memo-shows/

The Powers That Be dispute that they are ignoring adult sex assaults, but my amateur reading between the lines makes me think the article is largely true.

Now, my political prognostications are usually about as accurate as those from pundits who do that for a living, i.e. 'Not Very', but still ... when someone's wife/aunt/adult daughter gets raped and the police don't have the time to investigate ... that's not viable. People will grumble year after year about potholes, but they just won't stand for rapes. Or when we lived in Seattle and were burgled, the responding officer was clear that nothing was going to happen other than the report getting filed. OK, I get it, my fellow taxpayers don't want to fund a team of detectives moving heaven and earth to find the guy who took our VCR. But your wife gets raped and there is no followup ... I just don't think that's going to be politically acceptable, even in Seattle.

The trouble with sex assault is often victim's wishes. In the past were they "assigning" all cases, even if the victims did not work to proceed and then exceptionally clearing them? Are they now only "assigning" them with victims who desire prosecution? Are they going to non-specialized detectives that work general crimes instead of the sex crimes people? I doubt they're just round filing all of them.

We had something of a scandal in my state a few years back over the "huge backlog" of unprocessed rape kits. The truth oh the matter was much more complicated and had more to do with victim wishes. A form was rolled out for victims to indicate how they wished to proceed and kits are routed based on that. Boom. "Backlog" issue fixed.

So I'm not saying the article isn't 100% as it sounds, but I see a lot of room for semantics.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Well.... I just submitted a application to the Charlotte Mecklenburg PD.

Best wishes. Were I to offer any suggestion, it would be for a mid-size agency rather than a large, urban one these days.

[mmc45414]

Local news story about canceling a long running annual festival (https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/dayton-cancels-july-4-festival-cites-staffing-safety-fireworks-will-go-on/WO2TB5YXYFG4BLQP5DLOIC36CY/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ddn_MiddayBreak_6908747).
The TLDR version is the cop to hoodlum ratio is just too low right now. It is making the hoodlums bolder, so better to not do anything that requires more manpower.
Plus the downtown area is being revitalized and some projects are coming along nicely, so best not to stage an event that might make the suburbanites less likely to visit.

The story might be behind a paywall (I pay, so I don't know if it may or not let you in for a peek), here are a couple highlights:

105084

105085

I actually appreciate this candor, basically conceding there are not enough cops to take about forty of them off of their normal responsibilities. But yeah, staffing is historically low because of high attrition and a large number of retirements, but no mention of why there is high attrition and people are tapping out ASAP. It is pretty obvious that it is because there is low support for LE in the core city so they quit, but you cannot say the quiet part out loud.

[TQP]

In a similar situation, and right up the road, Columbus' Asian Festival is this weekend, back after a 3 year pandemic-related hiatus. The festival is held just outside downtown in a large park that surrounds a pretty nice conservatory ( https://www.fpconservatory.org/ ). For the last several pre-pandemic, there were escalating problems with urban youth which caused them to have to shut down early at least once.

From what I can tell, they're making no changes. I'll be in the 911 center Saturday and Sunday night listening to the play by play.



Local news story about canceling a long running annual festival (https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/dayton-cancels-july-4-festival-cites-staffing-safety-fireworks-will-go-on/WO2TB5YXYFG4BLQP5DLOIC36CY/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ddn_MiddayBreak_6908747).
The TLDR version is the cop to hoodlum ratio is just too low right now. It is making the hoodlums bolder, so better to not do anything that requires more manpower.
Plus the downtown area is being revitalized and some projects are coming along nicely, so best not to stage an event that might make the suburbanites less likely to visit.

I actually appreciate this candor, basically conceding there are not enough cops to take about forty of them off of their normal responsibilities. But yeah, staffing is historically low because of high attrition and a large number of retirements, but no mention of why there is high attrition and people are tapping out ASAP. It is pretty obvious that it is because there is low support for LE in the core city so they quit, but you cannot say the quiet part out loud.