Costa Catalyst mag release and IDPA

[jlw]

In a thread on the IDPA forum (http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/9425/Costa-Catalyst-M-P-Extended-Magazine-Release) the question was raised as to the legality of the Costa Catalyst mag release for IDPA. Robert Ray has apparently responded via email to one person that it would not be legal.

[MikeyC]

Not ever for ESP? Well at least the IDPA is still being consistently inconsistent

[rsa-otc]

I wouldn't think it would be legal for SSP. But certainly ESP and CDP.

[rsa-otc]

Why is it that when I follow the link I end up on someone's Facebook Page?

[jlw]

Not ever for ESP? Well at least the IDPA is still being consistently inconsistent


I wouldn't think it would be legal for SSP. But certainly ESP and CDP.

According to the quoted email, not legal in any division.


Why is it that when I follow the link I end up on someone's Facebook Page?

Sorry, it's fixed now.

[VolGrad]

I'm interested if this trickles down to local or state champ matches. I informally asked our area coordinator about it this past Sunday and he indicated no for ssp but yes for ESP as one woul rationally expect. He posts here soaybe he will chime in.

[m91196]

Perfect example of what needs to be fixed in IDPA. If that isn't legal for ESP what is ESP?
Just like the Gripforce mess, on the IDPA forum it's legal for SSP until the 2012 Indoor Nationals, then Robert and Frank and whoever decide its not legal......
USPSA for the win.

[ToddG]

If that isn't legal for ESP what is ESP?

Having not seen one of the mag buttons in person I couldn't say, but anyone who's been involved with IDPA since the beginning can certainly tell you that equipment standards have crept steadily away from the original intent over the past several years.

ESP was never intended to be the "Limited Division of IDPA." It was, in fact, initially intended to be the place for BHPs and the .38 Super 1911. An early draft rulebook even had separate requirements and limitations depending on whether the ESP gun was a 1911 pattern pistol or not (e.g., you could checker the frontstrap of a 1911, but not a BHP).


USPSA for the win.

You mean the sport where, if you put your loading magazine in your front pocket before the stage starts, you get bumped out of Prod/SS because you've got a magazine forward of your centerline?

Both sports have goofy rules and decision-making procedures. The ridiculously vast array of new products and modifications coming into the market makes it impossible for any small organization to keep track of it all. Furthermore, it's not unreasonable for them to make a decision one way and then, upon seeing an unintended and unwanted consequence, changing their mind.

[JM Campbell]

If anybody needs to get rid of one...I just might have a good home in mind for it :D

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Jason F]

....Both sports have goofy rules and decision-making procedures....

Slightly rabbit trail from the aim of the topic here, but this is what has frustrated me most in the 2 recent IDPA matches I shot.

I shot an outdoor match last weekend that had a small "cowboy/western salloon" type building front with multiple doorways and windows. Part of the stage was to move down the front of the building engaging targets as you encountered them. I shot the two targets in a room, and hit a slide lock reload after the last round in the second bad guy. Both targets were fully neutralized and for a 0 score. I reloaded as a I moved forward down the front of the building.... but I did so in front of a doorway (rather than behind cover), so I was dinged with a procedural. Even though there was no more threat there, per the rules.

Seemed silly to me. I had a lot of fun, but pesky crap like that might keep me from throwing my hat in to the ring and trying to shoot IDPA regularly. "In real life" I would have moved and reloaded like I did. In IDPA I get dinged for it.

Which brings us back to the mag release question at hand....

Seems really silly that it wouldn't even be allowed in ESP. Doesn't ESP stand for "Enhanced Service Pistol"?? I would think that changing the mag release would enhance the operability of the weapon, but it doesn't make it a race gun with an optic and mag funnel, etc... :confused:

[G60]

If anybody needs to get rid of one...I just might have a good home in mind for it :D



pm sent.

[m91196]

Having not seen one of the mag buttons in person I couldn't say, but anyone who's been involved with IDPA since the beginning can certainly tell you that equipment standards have crept steadily away from the original intent over the past several years.

ESP was never intended to be the "Limited Division of IDPA." It was, in fact, initially intended to be the place for BHPs and the .38 Super 1911. An early draft rulebook even had separate requirements and limitations depending on whether the ESP gun was a 1911 pattern pistol or not (e.g., you could checker the frontstrap of a 1911, but not a BHP).



You mean the sport where, if you put your loading magazine in your front pocket before the stage starts, you get bumped out of Prod/SS because you've got a magazine forward of your centerline?

Both sports have goofy rules and decision-making procedures. The ridiculously vast array of new products and modifications coming into the market makes it impossible for any small organization to keep track of it all. Furthermore, it's not unreasonable for them to make a decision one way and then, upon seeing an unintended and unwanted consequence, changing their mind.

They just fixed that the front pocket thing the other day.

It doesn't bump you

Come on man work with me.....

[ToddG]

They just fixed that the front pocket thing the other day.

Sorry for getting it wrong. That's great news, and kudos to USPSA for fixing an obviously unintended "rule."

[heller1982]

After taking a look at the part and my own M&P, the Catalyst slide release would not be legal for use in any IDPA division.
Large hands may not like this mod. I had an oppurtunity to try it out but my hands are so big that I could feel my support hand rubbing up aginst the mag release. didn't work for me but its still seems to be a nice upgrade.

[VolGrad]

I have been in contact via e-mail with both the area coordinator and the match director for the GA State IDPA Championship to be held next month. Both have indicated they don't see any issue with the part for ESP and unless they see an official ruling between now and the match it should be good to go.

[m91196]

I have been in contact via e-mail with both the area coordinator and the match director for the GA State IDPA Championship to be held next month. Both have indicated they don't see any issue with the part for ESP and unless they see an official ruling between now and the match it should be good to go.


Pretty sure this is how IDPA does an official ruling, not optimum.
Pretty sure detonics is Robert Ray and it is the rules forum.
M & P not sure if that s what your shooting.

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/9504/Costa-Catalyst-extended-Magazine-Release--Smith--Wesson-M-P#.UFTzWGt5mSM

[VolGrad]

Pretty sure this is how IDPA does an official ruling, not optimum.
Pretty sure detonics is Robert Ray and it is the rules forum.
M & P not sure if that s what your shooting.

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/9504/Costa-Catalyst-extended-Magazine-Release--Smith--Wesson-M-P#.UFTzWGt5mSM

Ya, I hear what you are saying but that makes no sense for an International organization blah blah blah to issue official rulings through a forum. I mean who does that? Why not send out an official addendum to the rule book to all members via e-mail blast then follow up with snail mail info to all club contacts, MDs, etc. Weird.

To be honest I am planning to switch from my M&P9 to my G17 before the match. It's not optimal but coincidentally as this controversy is going on the orange ring around my HACK front sight fell off. Both are minor issues in themselves but combined I am kind of like ... whatever. I'll just switch back to my G17. The M&P was more of an experiment for me anyway. I bought my first M&Ps early this year after being a diehard GLOCKaholic for years. I started shooting the M&P9 in IDPA for two reasons. 1) I made EX in SSP with my G17 in the Spring and wanted to try something different for ESP until I made EX then was planning to shoot my CQB in CDP until I made EX there too. and 2) I wanted to use IDPA as a way to thoroughly wring out the M&P and familiarize myself with it.

Experiment over. I love the M&P. I still love GLOCKs too. I shoot them about the same but would prob give the GLOCK the slight edge. Might as well go back to it full time.

[m91196]

Ya, I hear what you are saying but that makes no sense for an International organization blah blah blah to issue official rulings through a forum. I mean who does that? Why not send out an official addendum to the rule book to all members via e-mail blast then follow up with snail mail info to all club contacts, MDs, etc. Weird.

I hear you, all last summer the Gripforce Adaptor is on the forum as SSP legal.
Nothing changes on the forum until March 9, 2012, which is the only way we know what rulings are on new parts etc.
At the IDPA Winter Nationals it is decided that it is not SSP legal.
That was February 22 2012.
Take it off or be moved to ESP.
At the match? Really?
That seems weak sauce in this day and age of technology.
Not to mention if you rule it one way you really should have a period of time elapse before a reversal or hold it until a new rule book.

[JM Campbell]

Ya, I hear what you are saying but that makes no sense for an International organization blah blah blah to issue official rulings through a forum. I mean who does that? Why not send out an official addendum to the rule book to all members via e-mail blast then follow up with snail mail info to all club contacts, MDs, etc. Weird.

To be honest I am planning to switch from my M&P9 to my G17 before the match. It's not optimal but coincidentally as this controversy is going on the orange ring around my HACK front sight fell off. Both are minor issues in themselves but combined I am kind of like ... whatever. I'll just switch back to my G17. The M&P was more of an experiment for me anyway. I bought my first M&Ps early this year after being a diehard GLOCKaholic for years. I started shooting the M&P9 in IDPA for two reasons. 1) I made EX in SSP with my G17 in the Spring and wanted to try something different for ESP until I made EX then was planning to shoot my CQB in CDP until I made EX there too. and 2) I wanted to use IDPA as a way to thoroughly wring out the M&P and familiarize myself with it.

Experiment over. I love the M&P. I still love GLOCKs too. I shoot them about the same but would prob give the GLOCK the slight edge. Might as well go back to it full time.

Dibs on the M&P gear exodus ....:eek: just playing buddy.

I honestly hope it turns out to be gtg. I strongly prefer the Costa over stock. With that said, if SW ever did a HK paddle mag release I would trade every M&P in to get them. ...one can dream right?

[VolGrad]

Dibs on the M&P gear exodus ....:eek: just playing buddy.

I honestly hope it turns out to be gtg. I strongly prefer the Costa over stock. With that said, if SW ever did a HK paddle mag release I would trade every M&P in to get them. ...one can dream right?

:p Nah, not getting rid of anything. I am just going to switch back to my G17 for IDPA. That's where I started anyway.

[kmartphoto]

:p Nah, not getting rid of anything. I am just going to switch back to my G17 for IDPA. That's where I started anyway.

thats what he says this week.


I have good money that says by state you will have cycled through 3+ different guns.

[jlw]

thats what he says this week.


I have good money that says by state you will have cycled through 3+ different guns.


Vol doesn't buy guns/gear. He just leases.