RFI: what training can I get to aid me in restraining disturbed young adults

[Baldanders]

I work with high school students in separate settings who have developmental disabilities. Some have a regular tendency towards violent outbursts--the sort where you have to clear the room while they rage out.

Usually, no serious techniques are needed to resolve the situation. But sometimes...

Our district's "training" on restraining was an utter joke. Purely virtual. And we are supposed to work in tandem. I couldn't even tell you what "system" I have "certification" in.

No one I work with has a clue on any form of combatives.

Can anyone point me to some good hands-on training available in the NC RDU/ Northern Virginia (Danville) area that might help me with a better toolbox for my job? Joint locks are definitely verboten.

I'm not posting about what I've done so far in situations I've faced for reasons any LE will understand without explanation.

[Totem Polar]

If it were me, I’d look into finding out who is in charge of training correctional officers, and I’d just email them privately and explain the sitch. Without naming names, I personally know a pile of people who trained with the guy who used to be in charge of DT for my state’s crim J commission, or whatever it’s called now. FWIW…

[45dotACP]

Maybe ask your local hospital who trains the nurses on the psych unit. I think the psych nurses call it CPI or something, but it's about soft takedowns and restraints.

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[jeremy_[]

Maybe ask your local hospital who trains the nurses on the psych unit. I think the psych nurses call it CPI or something, but it's about soft takedowns and restraints.

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This plus if you have a local special needs or autism center they would be beyond happy to teach you how to deal with them.

[Oldherkpilot]

I realize this is a serious issue, but my initial thought was this (I happened upon it in my PC last week, saved it from years ago):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YRzN713pqWQ&feature=emb_imp_woyt

[43Under]

I work with high school students in separate settings who have developmental disabilities. Some have a regular tendency towards violent outbursts--the sort where you have to clear the room while they rage out.

Usually, no serious techniques are needed to resolve the situation. But sometimes...

Our district's "training" on restraining was an utter joke. Purely virtual. And we are supposed to work in tandem. I couldn't even tell you what "system" I have "certification" in.

No one I work with has a clue on any form of combatives.

Can anyone point me to some good hands-on training available in the NC RDU/ Northern Virginia (Danville) area that might help me with a better toolbox for my job? Joint locks are definitely verboten.

I'm not posting about what I've done so far in situations I've faced for reasons any LE will understand without explanation.

I do this for a living. We use CPI training. It's okay.

Edit: I guess I should add that CPI is Crisis Prevention Institute.

[Baldanders]

I do this for a living. We use CPI training. It's okay.

Edit: I guess I should add that CPI is Crisis Prevention Institute.

Yeah, that's the system I'm "certified" in. I need some actual hands-on work with it. I'm not the sort to pick up moves from just observation.

Although I've used a little with coworkers moving a kid.

Thanks for the responses everyone, took me a while to look as I'm finally doing my dance with covid. Mild so far, thank goodness.

[43Under]

Yeah, that's the system I'm "certified" in. I need some actual hands-on work with it. I'm not the sort to pick up moves from just observation.

Although I've used a little with coworkers moving a kid.

Thanks for the responses everyone, took me a while to look as I'm finally doing my dance with covid. Mild so far, thank goodness.

Like anything else physical, the more you do it the better you get at it. At my old school we were restraining students several times/day, so it got to the point where I could make eye contact with a fellow staff member and do all the "moves" without much speaking going on.

[Kirk]

Would BJJ not work for this? I'm asking because I don't know. I'm not referring to choking people out or using hard takedowns, but it seems that it could be adapted into a gentler format for this type of situation. I only bring up BJJ because every decent-sized city has a gym now and thus training options aren't limited. I'd assume that finding training partners and/or a qualified coach for any purpose-built system might be difficult, but I could certainly be wrong.

[45dotACP]

Would BJJ not work for this? I'm asking because I don't know. I'm not referring to choking people out or using hard takedowns, but it seems that it could be adapted into a gentler format for this type of situation. I only bring up BJJ because every decent-sized city has a gym now and thus training options aren't limited. I'd assume that finding training partners and/or a qualified coach for any purpose-built system might be difficult, but I could certainly be wrong.A BJJ coach would be a useful person to help you figure out a system.

In truth, it sounds to me like wrestling would probably prove a better base on which to build.

Insofar as point A is a person standing and point B is the person on the ground and being controlled, wrestling has always sort of been that answer.

It has some gaps in it's curriculum such as "How do I end this fight" but the answer to your situation seems to be different than the standard reaponse of applying a crippling submission, strangling then unconscious or using some hard ground and pound....so a wrestling base seems like a terrific idea actually.

Might need some tweaks though.

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[cheshire_cat]

BJJ is fantastic for the context you are describing. There is a saying, “position before submission”. You maintain the position through control, which is exactly what BJJ teaches. You will definitely want to do no-Gi in addition to Gi.

[Duelist]

Maybe ask your local hospital who trains the nurses on the psych unit. I think the psych nurses call it CPI or something, but it's about soft takedowns and restraints.

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When I worked at a psych hospital, we went through very specific hands-on training for restraining patients. Didn’t always keep one from getting hurt when they had an episode, but we worked very hard to protect them when restraining them.

[Mitch]

BJJ would work. Gi, no gi, it doesn’t really matter for this.

BUT, I would be very cautious using anything at work that wasn’t covered in a work provided training, and I would not let anyone at the office know I was into BJJ. The higher ups care about protecting the company from lawsuits, they don’t care about you until after you’ve already sustained an injury that they’re on the hook for. Even then, they don’t really care about you, but they care about the $ impact related to you and what that means for them.

[cheshire_cat]

BJJ would work. Gi, no gi, it doesn’t really matter for this. .
It actually does matter, as a lot of guys who train only in the Gi become dependent on Gi grips. It is good to train both, but no gi forces you to use the grips that work without use of the Gi, (e.g. 2 on 1, Kimura grip, etc). Obviously, only use techniques that are allowed by policy and law.

[Cory]

I'm fairly certain that 03RN does that stuff for a living.

He's also a beast in the weight lifting category. Regardless of technique or methodology selected I'm certain an intense level of strength and conditioning will allow it to be more effective. Even if "soft" is the goal.

[03RN]

You are not doing combatives. You are trying to keep these kids from hurting themselves if the rooms already cleared.

I do have a background in a few different h2h systems but if a camera catches you doing anything but what your trained in through the district them you will be held liable.

Best advice is to hold on as tight as you and your partner can. If you're on their right side. Then use your right hand on their wrist and your left hand under their armpit. You 2 can guide them where you want. The tighter you hold the better. Don't loosen untill you have a plan. Keep your body in tight and when they bite, feed it. That means push into it.

Ideally you would have more than 2 but I've held big strong patients with one other person for 30+ minutes when we couldn't get a restraining device or meds at the time.

[Duelist]

You are not doing combatives. You are trying to keep these kids from hurting themselves if the rooms already cleared.

I do have a background in a few different h2h systems but if a camera catches you doing anything but what your trained in through the district them you will be held liable.

Best advice is to hold on as tight as you and your partner can. If you're on their right side. Then use your right hand on their wrist and your left hand under their armpit. You 2 can guide them where you want. The tighter you hold the better. Don't loosen untill you have a plan. Keep your body in tight and when they bite, feed it. That means push into it.

Ideally you would have more than 2 but I've held big strong patients with one other person for 30+ minutes when we couldn't get a restraining device or meds at the time.

+1 to hold tight, stay tight. Don’t give the kid room to move or get momentum.

We had two big, strong guys doing proper holds (in compliance with training) on a thin young (13 or 14yo) woman’s arms - right side guy had her wrist and arm, left side guy a mirror. They started moving her to a different room and didn’t stay tight. She ended up flipping her feet up in the air in front of her hard enough to do a back flip. Left side guy either felt her going and released, or lost his hold. Right side guy clamped down. She got a spiral fracture of her right humerus and cracked one or both bones in the forearm.

If they’d both stayed in tight to her body and had their hand up in the armpit, it would likely have not happened (though she’d have probably screamed obscenities in their ears and accused them of groping her). I held and escorted multiple stronger patients in similar situations, alone or with a partner, and never injured someone. I only ever got hurt when someone hit me with a chair as I moved in to take a hold (I’m not counting geriatric attempts to pinch, punch, or bite).

[Baldanders]

A BJJ coach would be a useful person to help you figure out a system.

In truth, it sounds to me like wrestling would probably prove a better base on which to build.

Insofar as point A is a person standing and point B is the person on the ground and being controlled, wrestling has always sort of been that answer.

It has some gaps in it's curriculum such as "How do I end this fight" but the answer to your situation seems to be different than the standard reaponse of applying a crippling submission, strangling then unconscious or using some hard ground and pound....so a wrestling base seems like a terrific idea actually.

Might need some tweaks though.

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I wish I had a high school wrestling career at this point.

Lord knows I could use some BJJ in general, but I'm apprehensive about training to respond quite so aggressively to situations. I'm *pulling my punches,* as it were now. My little bit of combatives training was very focused on "incapacitate as quickly as you can, make every block a counterstrike, etc."

Luckily, I'm about 1000% better at using *communication* to defuse situations with disturbed students than I was 2 years ago. And I've been told I have a "commanding" voice (by a black man, our principal, who does some preaching) recently. That's a new thing for me.

[Baldanders]

BJJ would work. Gi, no gi, it doesn’t really matter for this.

BUT, I would be very cautious using anything at work that wasn’t covered in a work provided training, and I would not let anyone at the office know I was into BJJ. The higher ups care about protecting the company from lawsuits, they don’t care about you until after you’ve already sustained an injury that they’re on the hook for. Even then, they don’t really care about you, but they care about the $ impact related to you and what that means for them.

Yup, it's CYA all around.

My principal has stated this to me in a one-on-one conversation, in regards to our training on this.

"It's there so I can say everyone was trained if something goes wrong..."

My lack of trust on this issue was a major motivator in making the post here.

If I do a damn thing outside the offical techniques, I would assume I will be thrown right under that proverbial bus if it becomes an issue. No doubt.

[Baldanders]

I'm fairly certain that 03RN does that stuff for a living.

He's also a beast in the weight lifting category. Regardless of technique or methodology selected I'm certain an intense level of strength and conditioning will allow it to be more effective. Even if "soft" is the goal.

Having used my sheer size and strength in dealing with small humans, I'm gonna say I'm glad I'm fairly strong. It always helps. It's never a liability. Strength can mean you can actually be more gentle, if that makes any sense.

There's a reason big guys get hired as aides/orderlies in EC classrooms and psychiatric hospitals.

[Baldanders]

You are not doing combatives. You are trying to keep these kids from hurting themselves if the rooms already cleared.

I do have a background in a few different h2h systems but if a camera catches you doing anything but what your trained in through the district them you will be held liable.

Best advice is to hold on as tight as you and your partner can. If you're on their right side. Then use your right hand on their wrist and your left hand under their armpit. You 2 can guide them where you want. The tighter you hold the better. Don't loosen untill you have a plan. Keep your body in tight and when they bite, feed it. That means push into it.

Ideally you would have more than 2 but I've held big strong patients with one other person for 30+ minutes when we couldn't get a restraining device or meds at the time.

We did go over the "push into a bite" stuff, which was completely new to me, and completely counter-intuitive. Handy information for fights in general.

Your advice here totally aligns with my verbal training. I really just want a day to work this stuff hands on.

I have already told my coworkers we really need to, and I seem to be very convincing these days. I think I have my game plan now, thanks!

But starting this thread has hammered something home for me: I need to go find a BJJ class for my mental health. After using my limited skills for the past two years in a very restrained way, I`m positively itching to get into some refereed, fully consensual fights where I can go closer to full-bore.

An ass whipping delivered by a twenty-something sounds positively cathartic at this point. ;) I find myself doing 45° footwork and throwing knee strikes some days to get out my aggression.

Thanks to everyone, again.

[03RN]

89940

The scar is mostly hidden by the tattoo at this point. All three bites from 3 separate restraints all left scars. I'm very good at feeding the bite and my forcefeeding usually has the patient release quickly.

The above pic happened because I was pushing my shoulder into her mouth and the other nurse tripped and fell and her head got pulled off.

Later when talking about it she was really scared at the time because she didn't know why the bite didn't end the restraint. She thought I'd drop her.

It was bitter sweet because of the years of being molested by her dad who I reminded her of. When she was calm we could work together but as soon as she got amped up she saw her dad and targeted me. Understandably so.

I'd hesitate at this point to add any new combatives depending on your past and your ability to not use what you're learning on the mat. If you can separate the 2 then great.

Just remember that your job is to keep that adolescent safe.

[Mitch]

It actually does matter, as a lot of guys who train only in the Gi become dependent on Gi grips. It is good to train both, but no gi forces you to use the grips that work without use of the Gi, (e.g. 2 on 1, Kimura grip, etc). Obviously, only use techniques that are allowed by policy and law.

I hear this a lot. Yeah, if you’re working on your berimbolos and playing spider guard all the time gi vs no gi matters. If you’re grabbing a wrist and going for a Russian tie, it really doesn’t. If you can’t transition between a same side collar grab and a Russian tie, then your fundamentals and understanding of grappling need a lot of work.

For most of us the issue is largely academic. If the clothes the other person is wearing or not wearing negates your ability to function, the real issue is you suck.

[cheshire_cat]

If the clothes the other person is wearing or not wearing negates your ability to function, the real issue is you suck.
I can’t argue with that :cool:

[45dotACP]

89940

The scar is mostly hidden by the tattoo at this point. All three bites from 3 separate restraints all left scars. I'm very good at feeding the bite and my forcefeeding usually has the patient release quickly.

The above pic happened because I was pushing my shoulder into her mouth and the other nurse tripped and fell and her head got pulled off.

Later when talking about it she was really scared at the time because she didn't know why the bite didn't end the restraint. She thought I'd drop her.

It was bitter sweet because of the years of being molested by her dad who I reminded her of. When she was calm we could work together but as soon as she got amped up she saw her dad and targeted me. Understandably so.

I'd hesitate at this point to add any new combatives depending on your past and your ability to not use what you're learning on the mat. If you can separate the 2 then great.

Just remember that your job is to keep that adolescent safe.I probably don't tell our inpatient psych nurses this enough, but serious props to you for doing the job you do.

Working with difficult people...whether they be inpatient psych, troubled kids, or anything in between...that's a hard job to do, let alone to do it right.

My job is positively pleasant by comparison and any time I've had a patient suffer a severe mental health crisis on my unit, I've been thankful as hell for the psych nurses who respond to lend a hand.

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[LittleLebowski]

BJJ.

My wife’s school system uses something called “Handle With Care”.

[LittleLebowski]

I think that 03RN’s advice is “be a big motherfucker that’s already seen combat” 😁

[03RN]

I think that 03RN’s advice is “be a big motherfucker that’s already seen combat” 😁

I do what I can with what I got.

[Cheap Shot]

89940

The scar is mostly hidden by the tattoo at this point. All three bites from 3 separate restraints all left scars. I'm very good at feeding the bite and my forcefeeding usually has the patient release quickly.

The above pic happened because I was pushing my shoulder into her mouth and the other nurse tripped and fell and her head got pulled off.

Later when talking about it she was really scared at the time because she didn't know why the bite didn't end the restraint. She thought I'd drop her.

It was bitter sweet because of the years of being molested by her dad who I reminded her of. When she was calm we could work together but as soon as she got amped up she saw her dad and targeted me. Understandably so.

I'd hesitate at this point to add any new combatives depending on your past and your ability to not use what you're learning on the mat. If you can separate the 2 then great.

Just remember that your job is to keep that adolescent safe.

RESPECT!

[ECVMatt]

Jumping in a bit late, but I have use Non-violent Crisis Intervention or NCI -Blue Card for years. It works for most situations and is legally defensible. I have been in a couple of lawsuits that were settled in our favor once we showed proof of competence and videos of the incidences showed us correctly using the techniques.

This was in a Mild/Mod setting and not Mod/Severe. I also work in Gen Ed school with a small number of M/M students. We did not have a large number of incidents. Working in a full time facility would be much different. There is an NCI Advanced Physical Skills course that is more appropriate for higher levels of physical intervention.

Last year I violated a principle of NCI and allowed a student to approach within striking distance. It was a kindergarten student and he managed to shove me in an awkward way that injured my back. It was extremely embarrassing because I am in good shape and have been in many more violent confrontations. It just reinforces that size does not matter, but safety does. I should have slowed down, stayed safe, and resolved the incident correctly.

Anyways, I would look at NCI-APS if you need more than the basic Blue Card.