Better Accuracy in matches

[Steve m]

Looking for some assistance here with some practice techniques to improve my IDPA scores.
-shot a IDPA match last weekend, overall time was good, however my down points not (24)
Looking for some practice tips and techniques that improve my accuracy in matches.
I shoot a Gen 5 19 with Holosusn 507C from appendix carry
I try to dry fire at least weekly for 15 minutes
Range time is maybe every two weeks.

[okie john]

Time matters more than hits in IDPA. Slow down your shooting enough to get good hits but do everything else (draws, reloads, hand changes, movement, etc.) faster. You can practice that stuff when you dry fire. You can practice sprinting short distances and stopping quickly, moving around barricades, etc., in your yard, in a park, or on a school ground.

I only shot IDPA for a couple of years and I only shot at two clubs. Most shooters would waddle up to a firing point, fumble the draw, and dump a magazine while barely hitting the target. Then they’d botch the reload, waddle the next firing point, and repeat the same mistakes.

I focused on learning to zip around the stage, skid to a halt, fire a few well-aimed shots, and zip off again. That gave me more time to shoot, so I dropped fewer points. After a year or so, I was finishing in the top 3-5 shooters. I wasn’t shooting much better than before, but I was doing everything else more quickly.

The more comfortable you are running with a loaded gun in your hand the easier this will be. Some people have a very hard time with that.


Okie John

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Get a qualified coach to evaluate your draw and grip. I had a problem that Tom Givens diagnosed. Thus, when I go off target, it is in a way Tom showed me and then I dry fire a bit and use my SIRT for practice. You can self correct using resources from the Internet but it's hard to see the nuances in grip, etc. Just my two cents. Granted it takes a bit of time and money to find someone.

In TX, I could recommend someone. Might ask here for local advisors.

[JCN]

Looking for some assistance here with some practice techniques to improve my IDPA scores.
-shot a IDPA match last weekend, overall time was good, however my down points not (24)
Looking for some practice tips and techniques that improve my accuracy in matches.
I shoot a Gen 5 19 with Holosusn 507C from appendix carry
I try to dry fire at least weekly for 15 minutes
Range time is maybe every two weeks.

How much motivation do you have to improve?

Increase the dry fire to daily for 15 minutes working on index, transitions and trigger press.

Like any sport, if you just dabble that’s where you’ll stay.

[ECK]

You might try adding some structure to your dry-fire sessions by getting one of Ben Stoeger or Steve Anderson’s books on dry fire drills and fundamentals. You might also try expanding your dry-fire practice to daily rather than weekly. Start with 5 mins a day for a week. Then 10 mins/day, then 15. Then do some live fire to back-up the dry fire practice and make sure you’re not jerking the trigger or anything. Have a plan for when you go to the range so you’re not wasting ammo.

When you dry fire, are you being honest with yourself and making sure you have a good sight picture and follow-thru so the sights aren’t coming off the target when the shot breaks? My upstairs room has a bunch of 1/3 size cardboard targets pinned to the walls, but even before then I used postit notes and light switches.

Last thought: It might be the gun. I shoot a SA or DA/SA much better than I do any of my striker fired gun.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Half inch post it notes in the spare bedroom at about 12 feet. Draw from the holster with either a SIRT or obviously empty G17 SRO. However, the SIRT or other laser systems are useful to see how your grip and press actually relates to the target. I again say, if one can - get a coach. There are such courses around here and there were in TX. I will pass on analogies to self sexuality as I have a modicum of class.

About 1/3 targets. Good idea. Have to be in the basement. My wife frowns on the spare bedroom click click at times. However, since the basement is now known at the snake pit (see the wife thread), it would be ok down there.

[Steve m]

Thanks, to all.
-will work on moving at my range
-definately need to structure my dry fire with set goals each time

[GyroF-16]

I would submit that, contrary to what okie john said, accuracy matters more than speed in IDPA - speed when you’re shooting, that is.
You can absolutely improve your time by concentrating on doing all the “non-shooting” things faster (moving, reloading, etc).

But I’d also submit that, especially since IDPA went to 1 second per point down about 10 years ago, accuracy is still very important.
While the time for “non-shooting” tasks is the low-hanging fruit, split times and transition times between targets in an array are still going to be important. You can work to improve those even without movement on an indoor range.
You’ll need a shot timer to measure your split times. See how fast you can fire a string of 2-3 shots which acceptable accuracy at different distances. I find that it varies noticeably from 5, 10, 15 and 20 yds (all common distances in IDPA).
Then use the timer as you put controlled pairs into two targets (even hanging from the same hanger if necessary) at various ranges.
Then try holding a sight picture on someone else’s target with the shot timer on delayed start. At the beep, transition to your target, moving your eyes, then your sights to put a controlled pair into your target.

Keep a log, so you can quantify how fast you can get acceptable hits on the above drills at various ranges. Then experiment ro see what changes in technique (support hand grip) or focus (trigger manipulation) will improve your performance.

Good luck!


ETA - I just re-read okie john ’s post, and he actually said “time matters more than hits” (“time” as apposed to “speed”).
So we’re actually saying very similar things.

[GJM]

There is no perfect substitute for shooting more live fire rounds and more matches.

[jamautry]

I was going to write out a long post but the simple answer is go to YouTube and find a Ben Stoeger Practical Pistol video and watch it, it will be eye opening. Even better, join up for a month or two of The Practical Shooting Training Group. Best still, take one of his classes. Then prepare to spend a small fortune in ammo doing double drills. I personally floundered for years frustrated that my accuracy in matches was not were I wanted it. Only when I understood the interaction of my grip and trigger control and practicing double drills did I make true progress.

[SecondsCount]

There is no perfect substitute for shooting more live fire rounds and more matches.

This. Dry fire is good but live fire is where I can really test my skills.

[YVK]

Looking for some assistance here with some practice techniques to improve my IDPA scores.
-shot a IDPA match last weekend, overall time was good, however my down points not (24)
Looking for some practice tips and techniques that improve my accuracy in matches.


There is a very little chance of getting an advice that's critical to you. Everything that was said above is both true and is also generic. There's a bunch of reasons why people shoot too many points down and most people will have more than one issue. You could be shooting too fast for your level of fundamentals, you may have issues with fundamentals, you may be too slow on your feet and try compensating by shooting fast, you may be choosing a wrong level of aggression vs control on some targets, you may be picking wrong spots on targets when trying to go faster, or it could be a mental tension that always causes physical tension.
Without figuring why you miss you can't really pick a most time efficient fixing recipe. Some people are blessed with ability and shooting intellect to understand why they miss, and some need external help troubleshooting. Try to get analytical and sort out the patterns of dropping points, maybe post a video. Or take a good class.

[edison]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31918-Ben-Stoeger-drill

[Steve m]

Well accuracy improved. Brains not so much. Last match i was assisting with the timer and tablet for scoring. When my turn came i made ready and engaged with my 11 shots (CO), reached for my reloads, mag pouches EMPTY. Complete and total brain fart. Down 32 points for that stage. All targets that I didn’t engage counted as misses. Totally my error

[MVS]

Well accuracy improved. Brains not so much. Last match i was assisting with the timer and tablet for scoring. When my turn came i made ready and engaged with my 11 shots (CO), reached for my reloads, mag pouches EMPTY. Complete and total brain fart. Down 32 points for that stage. All targets that I didn’t engage counted as misses. Totally my error

Don't feel special, I have done that before. There is a reason people have pre buzzer rituals. As for your original question, 32 points down may or may not mean anything. All matches are different. I am usually one of the most accurate shooters and have been down more points than that and still finished near the top. Now if everyone else was 10 or less points down, then you may have a problem.

[Bart Carter]

Well accuracy improved. Brains not so much. Last match i was assisting with the timer and tablet for scoring. When my turn came i made ready and engaged with my 11 shots (CO), reached for my reloads, mag pouches EMPTY. Complete and total brain fart. Down 32 points for that stage. All targets that I didn’t engage counted as misses. Totally my error

Wait until you are really cooking and run past an array. Ask me how I know...:p

[Zincwarrior]

I would submit that, contrary to what okie john said, accuracy matters more than speed in IDPA - speed when you’re shooting, that is.
You can absolutely improve your time by concentrating on doing all the “non-shooting” things faster (moving, reloading, etc).

But I’d also submit that, especially since IDPA went to 1 second per point down about 10 years ago, accuracy is still very important.
While the time for “non-shooting” tasks is the low-hanging fruit, split times and transition times between targets in an array are still going to be important. You can work to improve those even without movement on an indoor range.
You’ll need a shot timer to measure your split times. See how fast you can fire a string of 2-3 shots which acceptable accuracy at different distances. I find that it varies noticeably from 5, 10, 15 and 20 yds (all common distances in IDPA).
Then use the timer as you put controlled pairs into two targets (even hanging from the same hanger if necessary) at various ranges.
Then try holding a sight picture on someone else’s target with the shot timer on delayed start. At the beep, transition to your target, moving your eyes, then your sights to put a controlled pair into your target.

Keep a log, so you can quantify how fast you can get acceptable hits on the above drills at various ranges. Then experiment ro see what changes in technique (support hand grip) or focus (trigger manipulation) will improve your performance.

Good luck!


ETA - I just re-read okie john ’s post, and he actually said “time matters more than hits” (“time” as apposed to “speed”).
So we’re actually saying very similar things.

Just a note, steel challenge or its varieties (action steel, falling steel) are excellent for transition work. They also show where your weaknesses are and ideas for dry fire.

[CraigS]

Well accuracy improved. Brains not so much. Last match i was assisting with the timer and tablet for scoring. When my turn came i made ready and engaged with my 11 shots (CO), reached for my reloads, mag pouches EMPTY. Complete and total brain fart. Down 32 points for that stage. All targets that I didn’t engage counted as misses. Totally my error
I have had a couple of those too. My fix is immediately after watching them score my shots, I get ready for the next stage. Admittedly that doesn't take long as I always have 18 mags (three per stage) pre-filled when I get to the match. My theory is that it may be 10 minutes or it may be 30 minutes until I shoot again, but 3-4 minutes after I shoot I am ready to go. Also, if I get to the next stage and it is one of those 'first mag loaded w/ 6 rounds only' it is a heck of a lot faster to dump out rounds into the range bag than filling an empty mag w/ 6 rounds.

[Jim Watson]

I have had a couple of those too. My fix is immediately after watching them score my shots, I get ready for the next stage. Admittedly that doesn't take long as I always have 18 mags (three per stage) pre-filled when I get to the match. My theory is that it may be 10 minutes or it may be 30 minutes until I shoot again, but 3-4 minutes after I shoot I am ready to go.

Yes, yes, YES!
I usually pre-load enough magazines to get through a six stage club match.
I do not have enough spares for my .45 STI, but can get through the four medium field courses I will shoot tonight and refill while the Classifiers are being set up.


if I get to the next stage and it is one of those 'first mag loaded w/ 6 rounds only' it is a heck of a lot faster to dump out rounds into the range bag than filling an empty mag w/ 6 rounds.

Shooting a single stack with plenty of magazines on hand, I have one marked for the downloaded start (and one with Barney Bullets) so if I am shooting ESP or SS, I don't even have to do that.

[CraigS]

I started getting ready immediately back when I didn't have mags pre-loaded. It was even more important then because loading took longer than just grabbing pre-filled mags. I have 6 mags w/ different color or marked base plates. These are loaded w/ the one extra round. The advantage of shooting the same model gun for ages is I didn't buy 18 mags all at one time, I accumulated them over several years. BTW for our Beretta 92 the MecGar 18 rnd mags are my favorite. They have been flawless and they have a witness hole for every round vs every 5 rounds. That sure makes it easier when needing different round counts for some stages. I don't know if they are the same for other guns but it would be worth it to check. BTW2 this is the best source I have found.
https://gregcotellc.com/cart/products_all.html

[Clusterfrack]

...especially since IDPA went to 1 second per point down about 10 years ago, accuracy is still very important.
While the time for “non-shooting” tasks is the low-hanging fruit, split times and transition times between targets in an array are still going to be important...

Yes! Accuracy (fewer points down) is the thread topic, and this is something everyone needs to work on no matter their skill level (see YVKs post). While shooting "sooner" by spending less time doing the non-shooting stuff (moving, transitions, reloads, splits, etc.) is important, a lot of shooters bleed points because they are not putting enough bullets in the A zone/Down Zero.

If a shooter has the skill to put two shots in a ~3-4" circle at 7 yds with 0.3s to 0.4s splits, I do not think burning a lot of ammo shooting doubles is the answer. IME, the main reason people with decent skills loose points is they aren't trying hard enough to shoot As/0's. Interestingly, this doesn't mean shooting like a turtle and over-confirming the sights. See thread below:



One thing has made the biggest difference in my shooting this year and I want to share it here and discuss.

Some definitions so we are all on the same page:

Aiming: Aligning the front and rear sights (or dot) with the target, and maintaining that alignment until the gun has fired.
Looking: visual perception of where you want the bullet to go.
Target focus: looking with eyes focused on the target, while at the same time seeing the sights (or dot).
Front sight focus: looking with eyes focused on the front sight, while at the same time seeing the target.


On PSTG (https://www.practicalshootingtraininggroup.com) and elsewhere, there has been a lot of discussion about how and why to use target focus with iron sights (also obviously with RDS). Front sight focus requires looking at and focusing on the target, shifting the focal plane back to the front sight, and then breaking the shot. This is slower than target focus because there is no focal plane shift.

I have been shooting target focus with irons for the past year, and it's taken a while to trust it --especially at distance.

My biggest recent improvement in shooting has come from improving my precision of looking at the intended POI. It's just like "aim small / miss small" in rifle shooting. For me it requires a ton of mental focus to create an appropriately small "sub-target" on a much larger target (e.g. image below).

My focus has shifted (so to speak) from primarily confirming the alignment of the sights, to primarily looking precisely at where I want the bullets to go. I'm looking forward to discussing this. Maybe it's something you've been doing for a long time?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210428/d3d0a70668893bb72ab98f1ea591ee1f.jpg

Red dot added to represent where I am looking. Hits: 2A, AC to the upper A zone at match pace.