USPSA President Special Election 2022

[Clusterfrack]

The election for USPSA President is open until June 16, 2022. Members can vote here (https://uspsa.org/elections/info/2022-special-election).

This thread is for discussion of the candidates, and other topics related to this election.

[Clusterfrack]

I am voting for Yee-Min Lin. I am convinced that he is the best candidate to lead USPSA beyond the recent difficulties.

It's also really cool that he got into USPSA because of Gabe White's training diary on this forum!

[Zincwarrior]

The election for USPSA President is open until June 16, 2022. Members can vote here (https://uspsa.org/elections/info/2022-special-election).

This thread is for discussion of the candidates, and other topics related to this election.

Thank you CF. I have to vote but don't actually know anything about the candidates.

[Artemas2]

I don't think we would go wrong with any of them based on what I have been able to find.

I will probably vote for Shatalov, because I have shot with him and his wife for a few years and have found the both of them to be good people.

[Clusterfrack]

I don't think we would go wrong with any of them based on what I have been able to find.

I will probably vote for Shatalov, because I have shot with him and his wife for a few years and have found the both of them to be good people.

Shatalov is my 2nd choice for sure.

[andre3k]

I thought Matt Hopkins was running. I remember reading a bio somewhere.

Sent from my SM-A135U1 using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Matt had to drop out for personal reasons. It’s a bummer. Let’s wish him the best.

[Zincwarrior]

Vote early! Vote often!

I like that one candidate has the usual run and gun pose, while one is standing next to a cute little bunny. :D

[YVK]

First thing I did this morning was checking my email, and second thing was voting for Lin.

[RJ]

Thanks for the reminder, I got the email today and realized I had no clue who the candidates were. I'll take some time to inform myself and vote before the deadline.

[LittleLebowski]

I am voting for Yee-Min Lin. I am convinced that he is the best candidate to lead USPSA beyond the recent difficulties.

It's also really cool that he got into USPSA because of Gabe White's training diary on this forum!

Link?

[Clusterfrack]

I am voting for Yee-Min Lin. I am convinced that he is the best candidate to lead USPSA beyond the recent difficulties.

It's also really cool that he got into USPSA because of Gabe White's training diary on this forum!


Link?

USPSA Members only link here (https://uspsa.org/elections/candidate/2).
Yee-Min Lin
"...I discovered USPSA through Gabe White’s online training diary after years of tactical/defensive training."

[ECK]

I had some time to kill the other day on a 5 hr drive so listened to all four of the GFDS candidate interviews. I also read their bio and answers to the Q&A on the USPSA website.

The interviews were informative, the moderator (Bill Duda) did a good job of being impartial and asked all the candidates the same questions. They did help me narrow it down from four to two:

Candidate 1: Nice guy, been around a while, and knows how the BoD works. But lacked vision and the moderator kept having to bring him back on track to provide his views on a topic or state an opinion.

Candidate 2: He’s running on a platform that he’s angry. Went on multiple rants. Did I say he was angry about something?

Candidate 3: Articulate, well spoken, and presented a vision that addressed the questions well. However I’ve seen this guy in action working major matches and his statement about “leading by example” stuck in my craw because I’ve witnessed him doing the exact opposite too many times.

Candidate 4: Has kind of a vision but was all over the place on his answers. Also seems to lack experience operating on a scale larger than a small local club.

Suffice to say I was less than impressed by any of them …sigh…

[Yankee]

Anyone have info on candidates beyond what's on USPSA site? Or care to share why you're voting for one over the others/one stands out over others? I was planning on voting for Hopkins before he dropped out, so hadn't looked too much into other candidates.


I had some time to kill the other day on a 5 hr drive so listened to all four of the GFDS candidate interviews.

Link to these interviews?

[ECK]

Anyone have info on candidates beyond what's on USPSA site? Or care to share why you're voting for one over the others/one stands out over others? I was planning on voting for Hopkins before he dropped out, so hadn't looked too much into other candidates.



Link to these interviews?


Bruce Wells:
https://youtu.be/bEAa5QPHP_A

Yee Min Lin:
https://youtu.be/gikOB2G76J0

Steve Moneypenny:
https://youtu.be/7iKj26zn_AI

Mike Shatalov:
https://youtu.be/UF0-_zyWDQk

[Yankee]

Thanks!

[RJ]

I listened to the Candidates on the GFDS channel, and reviewed their bios on the USPSA site.

I voted for Yee-Min Lin. I felt he had the most level-headed, mature and up to date approach as to where USPSA can go as President.

[cbrussell]

After listening to them all, I chose Mike Shatalov. I feel he places the membership first with an emphasis on the volunteer nature of the sport.

[JCN]

Clusterfrack

Will be interesting for the runoff

[cbrussell]

It would be nice if Bruce would concede to Yee; he received around 50% less votes. It would save USPSA money and time. However, I doubt he will.
While I did not vote for Yee the first time around, and although I think his censorship idea was ill conceived and not well thought out, (I hope he has reconsidered this idea), and I have seen some other disparaging remarks about Yee’s stage RO attendance, I cannot in good conscience vote for an incumbent board member for President. I realize that some are making a case for voting for Bruce so another Area Director could be voted in, however, a temporary Director would be appointed until the regular election cycle comes around, which is next summer, so I don’t see any sense in such convoluted thinking. The normal Presidential election cycle will come around again soon enough, so if Yee proves not to be the man, another choice can be voted in then.
With the change in bylaws, the President’s power has been greatly limited, but he still has the “bully pulpit” from which to rally the members. I hope the communications, accountability and openness will greatly approve with a new President.🙏

[YVK]

Lin was like 100 votes short of getting 50%, and was a runaway winner from the absolute count standpoint. I mean, the dude got about as many votes as all three others combined. I wish that rather than sticking to the bylaws they just let Troy interpret the results...

Then again, 7K votes submitted out of 34K eligible to vote just tell you how much USPSA membership cares about the leadership. Nothing, of course, wouldn't prevent the remaining 27K from bitching when new leadership does something they don't like.

[DMF13]

I suppose I should have read the bylaws, but I am surprised the run off rules are so stupid. There should be a provision that narrows the field prior to a run off. With the current setup, if all four stay in the race, we could easily see the same outcome.

[cbrussell]

It is my understanding that the run off election is between the two top vote recipients, which would be Yee and Bruce.
Still, I agree, Bruce should concede; Yee got the vast majority of votes.
As to the voter turnout; I could not agree with you more! Real sad.

[DMF13]

It is my understanding that the run off election is between the two top vote recipients, which would be Yee and Bruce.
Not according to what USPSA said in their email about the results, and the run off election:

"USPSA Presidential Election Results
The results for the Special Election for President are in.

Per bylaws 6.7 "Quorum and Majority" no candidate received more than 50% of the vote. Because no candidate received 50% or more then bylaw 6.8 "Runoff Election Ballot Procedure" takes effect. 6.8 outlines the timing of the Runoff Election:

Fifteen (15) days after the election results were returned to the Board: The board notifies the Election Firm to use the same voting list as the initial election.
Thirty (30) Days after the Election Firm is notified: Voting Begins
Thirty-One (31) Days after Voting Begins: Voting Ends
Fifteen (15) Days after Voting ends: Date for the election firm to tabulate, certify, and deliver results to the Managing Director and Board of Directors."

[cbrussell]

Hmm, I don’t see where it states who will be the run off candidates. I could be,wrong, but run off usually means the two highest vote getting candidates, not a whole new election. But hey, it is USPSA, so anything is possible.

[Bucky]

Not according to what USPSA said in their email about the results, and the run off election:

"USPSA Presidential Election Results
The results for the Special Election for President are in.

Per bylaws 6.7 "Quorum and Majority" no candidate received more than 50% of the vote. Because no candidate received 50% or more then bylaw 6.8 "Runoff Election Ballot Procedure" takes effect. 6.8 outlines the timing of the Runoff Election:

Fifteen (15) days after the election results were returned to the Board: The board notifies the Election Firm to use the same voting list as the initial election.
Thirty (30) Days after the Election Firm is notified: Voting Begins
Thirty-One (31) Days after Voting Begins: Voting Ends
Fifteen (15) Days after Voting ends: Date for the election firm to tabulate, certify, and deliver results to the Managing Director and Board of Directors."

Yeah, when I read this it made no sense to me. We could arrive at a similar no win result.

[Norville]

Yeah, when I read this it made no sense to me. We could arrive at a similar no win result.

If the 50% requirement remains, this could go on forever.

[DMF13]

I need to find the actual bylaws because the email is oddly worded.

[cbrussell]

The individual members actually voting shall constitute a quorum and those persons receiving the highest number of votes cast shall be deemed elected.
Majority Required: No candidate for Area Director or President may serve without having received a majority of votes cast. In the event that no candidate receives more than 50% of the votes cast, a run-off election shall be conducted between the two candidates receiving the most votes.

The above is from the bylaws. Looks as though the runoff will be between Bruce and Lee.

[Clusterfrack]

Lin was like 100 votes short of getting 50%, and was a runaway winner from the absolute count standpoint. I mean, the dude got about as many votes as all three others combined. I wish that rather than sticking to the bylaws they just let Troy interpret the results...

Then again, 7K votes submitted out of 34K eligible to vote just tell you how much USPSA membership cares about the leadership. Nothing, of course, wouldn't prevent the remaining 27K from bitching when new leadership does something they don't like.


It is my understanding that the run off election is between the two top vote recipients, which would be Yee and Bruce.
Still, I agree, Bruce should concede; Yee got the vast majority of votes.
As to the voter turnout; I could not agree with you more! Real sad.


Looks as though the runoff will be between Bruce and Lee.

I think the runoff election is nearly as good an outcome as a full win for Yee-Min. The membership will have a clear choice: (1) Bruce bringing more of the Mike Foley approach vs. (2) Yee-Min bringing more transparency, competitive equity, and an emphasis on USPSA as a sport. I am confident that option 2 will be the majority choice, and we will move beyond the problems of the last few years.

YVK, I'm fairly sure you were being sarcastic about Troy or NROI interpreting results of the election? That would end up like another "landslide victory" for Putin.

[JCN]

I think the runoff election is nearly as good an outcome as a full win for Yee-Min. The membership will have a clear choice: (1) Bruce bringing more of the Mike Foley approach vs. (2) Yee-Min bringing more transparency, competitive equity, and an emphasis on USPSA as a sport. I am confident that option 2 will be the majority choice, and we will move beyond the problems of the last few years.

I hope you are right, but I would not be surprised if the runoff is much closer with many (almost all?) of the other candidate votes going to Bruce.

[YVK]

YVK, I'm fairly sure you were being sarcastic about Troy or NROI interpreting results ...

Yes.

[cbrussell]

I hope you are right, but I would not be surprised if the runoff is much closer with many (almost all?) of the other candidate votes going to Bruce.

I sure hope not. An incumbent board member as President; no transparency then.

[JCN]

I sure hope not. An incumbent board member as President; no transparency then.

It’ll be interesting. I was wondering if the establishment vote would be split three ways and the progressive vote would clearly go to Yee-Min.

I’m actually curious to see how the run off vote will go.

I hope it’ll go 75/25.

But wouldn’t be surprised if it went 55/45

[Bucky]

The individual members actually voting shall constitute a quorum and those persons receiving the highest number of votes cast shall be deemed elected.
Majority Required: No candidate for Area Director or President may serve without having received a majority of votes cast. In the event that no candidate receives more than 50% of the votes cast, a run-off election shall be conducted between the two candidates receiving the most votes.


Now YTF couldn't the email just say this. I think USPSA should hire you for there membership notifications. ;) :)



The above is from the bylaws. Looks as though the runoff will be between Bruce and Lee.



Emphasis added above: OK, am I the only one that got a chuckle from this?? :p

[cbrussell]

Now YTF couldn't the email just say this. I think USPSA should hire you for there membership notifications. ;) :)

I can’t take credit for this finding; we had a parallel conversation going on the HitFactor discord channel. Based on that information I just copied the information from the Bylaws posted on the USPSA web page. I do agree the email was very confusing and not well written. No surprise there.


Emphasis added above: OK, am I the only one that got a chuckle from this?? :p
Can’t take credit for this one either; never noticed the name juxtaposition. Cool that you did.

[JCN]

Get out there and vote!

[RJ]

I voted for Yee-Min (again).

[trader]

I voted for Yee-Min (again).

So did I.

[Clusterfrack]

Same.

[fatdog]

92260

for Yee

[JCN]

93806

[1911Nut]

Only 20% of the eligible voters cast a ballot. That was surprising to me.

[DMF13]

Only 20% of the eligible voters cast a ballot. That was surprising to me.Not surprising at all to me. Most of the membership are casual shooters, who likely only shoot occasional level 1 matches, and don't have a lot invested in what goes on with the running of the organization, as long as they perceive local matches are fun and fair. At $35 a year, most probably don't care about all the shenanigans.

[Archer1440]

Seeing Mr. Lee work his butt off at the state championship here in roasting conditions today made me glad I voted for him.

[Bucky]

Not surprising at all to me. Most of the membership are casual shooters, who likely only shoot occasional level 1 matches, and don't have a lot invested in what goes on with the running of the organization, as long as they perceive local matches are fun and fair. At $35 a year, most probably don't care about all the shenanigans.

Perhaps they should. We had a running joke during the previous admin. “You’re going by the May rule book. We are now using the June rule book.” I hope at some point we go back to rule stability.

[JCN]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/306946-uspsa-president-out/

103720

[JCN]

103721

103722

[RJ]

I did not renew my membership in part due to the Foley shenanigans. I did vote for YML before I left uspsa though.

If true, this seems pretty jacked up to terminate a President for the alleged reasons cited above.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

103721

103722

More USPSA drama ..........incredible I thought YML would bring some professionalism & help to keep it that way.

[AMC]

More USPSA drama ..........incredible I thought YML would bring some professionalism & help to keep it that way.

Dude.....thats why he's out.

[steve]

Who is the problem in the organization? What a shit show.

[YVK]

I wish IDPA banned shoot me first vests. I just can't get past those anymore. Maybe PCSL will take off in my neighborhood.

[Moylan]

I've got a localish range, only about 2 hours away, that seems to be starting up ICORE. Maybe I'll make a move over to revolvers.

[Bucky]

I wish IDPA banned shoot me first vests. I just can't get past those anymore. Maybe PCSL will take off in my neighborhood.

Run a Hawaiian shirt. Sometimes you can find them on the more rigid side. I wear them often, even when not carrying. :D

[RJ]

The closest USPSA clubs to me are in New Smyrna Beach, Hernando Sportsman’s Club in Pasco County, or East of Orlando, all over an hour , one-way. This new round of drama isn’t exactly getting me motivated to spend the effort to get to a match.

Maybe I should start scouring Goodwill for a used photographers vest…

[YVK]

Run a Hawaiian shirt. Sometimes you can find them on the more rigid side. I wear them often, even when not carrying. :D

It is not what I would run, it is what others do. I just can't take that stuff, seriously or otherwise. GJM recently sent me a video of a super squad at the IDPA Nationals. TGO, Nils, others looking just comical in those vests. The funniest part was seeing a vest-clad shooter making ready next to an RO wearing a normal T shirt.

[Sal Picante]

It is not what I would run, it is what others do. I just can't take that stuff, seriously or otherwise. GJM recently sent me a video of a super squad at the IDPA Nationals. TGO, Nils, others looking just comical in those vests. The funniest part was seeing a vest-clad shooter making ready next to an RO wearing a normal T shirt.

... which is why I shot AIWB in my Star Wars t-shirt, err, "sponsor jersey".

I think there were 4 of us shooting from appendix at IDPA Nationals.

Can you find the full size Langdon Beretta in this picture?

p/CpLHEq8j96_

[Clusterfrack]

It is not what I would run, it is what others do. I just can't take that stuff, seriously or otherwise. GJM recently sent me a video of a super squad at the IDPA Nationals. TGO, Nils, others looking just comical in those vests. The funniest part was seeing a vest-clad shooter making ready next to an RO wearing a normal T shirt.

Come on, YVK. Get with the LARP. Are the vests that different from USPSA Nascar jerseys full of fake 'sponsors'?

[Sal Picante]

The closest USPSA clubs to me are in New Smyrna Beach, Hernando Sportsman’s Club in Pasco County, or East of Orlando, all over an hour , one-way. This new round of drama isn’t exactly getting me motivated to spend the effort to get to a match.

Maybe I should start scouring Goodwill for a used photographers vest…

Bro - I keep telling you to come up for our Monday night "hit factor scored" match in Sarasota, but have you come out? :D

Additionally, Ruskin has a match and they're 40 minutes north (one way). St Pete's has a match and it is 45 minutes north (one way). Punta Gorda has a weekly matches and they're 45 minutes south (one way).

[jetfire]

I wish IDPA banned shoot me first vests. I just can't get past those anymore. Maybe PCSL will take off in my neighborhood.

So don't wear one and shoot AIWB like Les did.

Imagine caring how other men are dressed to play a game

[Sal Picante]

More USPSA drama ..........incredible I thought YML would bring some professionalism & help to keep it that way.

I'm beyond miffed ... The sport I've loved and supported for so long going so incredibly sideways... This just isn't right.
I find it hilarious that they've ban-hammered people like PSI and Ben for "bringing disrepute to the organization", essentially, all the while the organization itself has been doing something extremely suspect.
The truth is that at a local level few care what the board is doing; people are just trying to shoot, get better, enjoy the camaraderie. That said, it creates a lot of distaste for us that are invested.

I'm more and more interested in IDPA and PCSL (https://www.pcsleague.com), because, if I'm going to organize a club, I'd rather do so in a way where I'm not beholden to a group of narcissists.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm beyond miffed ... The sport I've loved and supported for so long going so incredibly sideways... This just isn't right.
I find it hilarious that they've ban-hammered people like PSI and Ben for "bringing disrepute to the organization", essentially, all the while the organization itself has been doing something extremely suspect.
The truth is that at a local level few care what the board is doing; people are just trying to shoot, get better, enjoy the camaraderie. That said, it creates a lot of distaste for us that are invested.

I'm more and more interested in IDPA and PCSL (https://www.pcsleague.com), because, if I'm going to organize a club, I'd rather do so in a way where I'm not beholden to a group of narcissists.

I'm too invested in USPSA to bail, but all this has me thinking about shooting IDPA again (which I left after the 1s/point rule change).

It's time for a full reset of the USPSA BoD. Anyone who was on the Board during Foley needs to step down or be removed by election. I can't tell what the fuck is going on, but it sure doesn't look good.

[jetfire]

I'm more and more interested in IDPA and PCSL (https://www.pcsleague.com), because, if I'm going to organize a club, I'd rather do so in a way where I'm not beholden to a group of narcissists.

I'm SUPER interested in PCSL as a sport. I think when the IDPA season is over and I take my yearly break from revolver I'm going to whip out my PCC and shoot some of those matches. We've got a club local to me

[cheby]

https://uspsa.org/elections/info/2023-presidential

Nominating Petition Deadline: May 1, 2023 - 10 days from today. It is a mockery of the process. In a spirit of 59 Oz gas pedal flashlight Carry Optic my ass rule changes.

[GJM]

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

[RJ]

Bro - I keep telling you to come up for our Monday night "hit factor scored" match in Sarasota, but have you come out? :D

Additionally, Ruskin has a match and they're 40 minutes north (one way). St Pete's has a match and it is 45 minutes north (one way). Punta Gorda has a weekly matches and they're 45 minutes south (one way).

We sold the house in Nokomis in Dec, and moved two hours north of Sarasota to Tavares in Lake County, to be closer to family. We are renting until we figure out where to buy.

https://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places-pilots-adventures-more-americas-seaplane-city/

Sarasota or Punta Gorda ain’t gonna happen. :)

OTOH, Eustis Gun Club has a regular Saturday IDPA match I’ll probably check out soonTM.

[Zincwarrior]

So was it over harassment, or just how he was calling D hits? I appear to be missing something.

[RJ]

https://uspsa.org/elections/info/2023-presidential

Nominating Petition Deadline: May 1, 2023 - 10 days from today. It is a mockery of the process. In a spirit of 59 Oz gas pedal flashlight Carry Optic my ass rule changes.

10 days. Wow. Who is running this enterprise these days? Why do they think this is reasonable? It makes USPSA look like a joke.

[fatdog]

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

I keep telling myself that about the Federal government, but administrations pass and the spiral is in one direction.

For USPSA I am convinced that only comes to pass if the broader membership gets disgusted enough to get to voting and 100% clean house on the BoD.

[fatdog]

On the other hand, given the current board and last few years of history, I ask myself why would anybody who is truly up to it in terms of executive experience, temperament, and proven organizational leadership would even want, or consider the job. My answer is no way, nobody.

Seems we will get another person who's day job career outside the organization is not something that recommends them, but they have been involved in the sport, maybe a good match director or a good shooter, and somebody thinks they are a good guy/gal. This job requires so much more in order to succeed.

[cheby]

I keep telling myself that about the Federal government, but administrations pass and the spiral is in one direction.

For USPSA I am convinced that only comes to pass if the broader membership gets disgusted enough to get to voting and 100% clean house on the BoD.

I am afraid the broader membership will not get disgusted with anything. They are happy with LO I am guessing.

[cheby]

Published today:

https://nroi.org/nroi-programs/the-nroi-discipline-procedure/

[JCN]

Published today:

https://nroi.org/nroi-programs/the-nroi-discipline-procedure/

Thanks for that.

It gives us at least one side of the story-ish.

[Clusterfrack]

The rules are clear and fair. But selective enforcement of rules for political purposes has been a recurring theme at USPSA.

[Sal Picante]

We sold the house in Nokomis in Dec, and moved two hours north of Sarasota to Tavares in Lake County, to be closer to family. We are renting until we figure out where to buy.

https://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places-pilots-adventures-more-americas-seaplane-city/

Sarasota or Punta Gorda ain’t gonna happen. :)

OTOH, Eustis Gun Club has a regular Saturday IDPA match I’ll probably check out soonTM.

I travel to Groveland pretty often to work at WOFT (West Orlando Firearms Training). I'll be up there again 5/20-21. Send me a DM and we'll meet up for coffee/dinner?

[RevolverRob]

The rules are clear and fair. But selective enforcement of rules for political purposes has been a recurring theme at USPSA.

Like the fact that the new Area 4 Director has been out of compliance with bylaws since January 1 of this year, because he is not RO certified? But has sat in and voted in board meetings throughout this time.

Maybe he didn't have time. He only knew 5-months prior to taking his position. Maybe he was too busy, those 7 Major and 11 local matches he shot over those same 5-months kept him busy.

The problem with USPSA is precisely that it is a Rules for Thee not for Me - situation right now.

Add in that Martens probably illegally sold guns. That Board Members expenses aren't being adequately tracked. That the budgets they have outlined don't make any financial sense.

I won't be renewing my membership any time soon.

[Archer1440]

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

And how’s that working out in Chicago and SF lately?

YML is literally one of the best RO’s I’ve ever shot under, his work ethic was incredible and I found him extremely personable. If an organization is willing to cut a person like that loose under the circumstances described, then the organization may well be the problem.

[JCN]

YML should make a gofundme for legal funds.

I would contribute.

[Zincwarrior]

Thanks for that.

It gives us at least one side of the story-ish.

I missed how it relates to the situation.

On the other hand I am a hack and my vote or opinion doesn't matter to USPSA, my wife, my dog...

[RJ]

I travel to Groveland pretty often to work at WOFT (West Orlando Firearms Training). I'll be up there again 5/20-21. Send me a DM and we'll meet up for coffee/dinner?

Would love to, but we’ll be in NC visiting family in Jacksonville, en route to Central Lake MI for the Pin Shoot in June bout that time.

[45dotACP]

At this point, it very much appears that USPSA just got too large. It used to be an enthusiast organization that was run by a dedicated group of amateurs. And it was nowhere near as large as it has become in recent years.

Too much money, too many new members, too many sponsors, and you can very quickly bite off more than a group of people who aren't professionals at running a large, tax exempt org can manage.

This is a cautionary tale.

USPSA is no longer an enthusiast's organization. It is a business, and it must now be treated as such, with all the caution, attention to detail, and fear that is due such a beast.

Not that I'm complaining... I love that I can find shooting matches basically anywhere...but it's time to start scouring LinkedIn for some real talent when it comes to managing something like USPSA.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[JCS]

I wonder if local matches just stopped affiliating with USPSA and ran outlaw matches if the attendance numbers would change. The local clubs could make more money and not have to pay USPSA every match.

But the biggest thing going for USPSA is the ruleset and classification system. I'm not sure I'd shoot a regular outlaw match because of those reasons.

If there was a better alternative locally I would do it. I think USPSA has looked consistently bad through all of the events the past few years even though I suspect that reality is different from perception. They just let other people tell the story.

I tell our PIO all the time, either we tell the story or someone tells it for us. Who would we rather the public hear from? This is what's happening in USPSA.

[GJM]

At this point, it very much appears that USPSA just got too large. It used to be an enthusiast organization that was run by a dedicated group of amateurs. And it was nowhere near as large as it has become in recent years.

Too much money, too many new members, too many sponsors, and you can very quickly bite off more than a group of people who aren't professionals at running a large, tax exempt org can manage.

This is a cautionary tale.

USPSA is no longer an enthusiast's organization. It is a business, and it must now be treated as such, with all the caution, attention to detail, and fear that is due such a beast.

Not that I'm complaining... I love that I can find shooting matches basically anywhere...but it's time to start scouring LinkedIn for some real talent when it comes to managing something like USPSA.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

When you say too large, too much money, what do you think is too large? My understanding is that annual revenues are about $3 million. That is hardly a mom and pop sized organization.

[45dotACP]

When you say too large, too much money, what do you think is too large? My understanding is that annual revenues are about $3 million. That is hardly a mom and pop sized organization.I suppose I don't have a specific number in mind. I'm not a business person.

But like Biggie used to say...Mo' money, Mo' problems.

I mean, look at where the NRA is today and tell me you don't see the individual egos of the administration of that organization running it completely into the ground.

I suppose my answer to your original question would be, "When the president of USPSA is able to buy a house for a mistress."

When you've got "buy your mistress a house" being paid to the leadership of USPSA, you're gonna get bad problems.

We may not be there yet...but the fact that we're having so many missteps and fuckups with "mom and pop" money means we're gonna get really bad problems when it's "buy your mistress a house" season.

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[Stephanie B]

I've got a localish range, only about 2 hours away, that seems to be starting up ICORE. Maybe I'll make a move over to revolvers.

My limited experience with ICORE is that it's half the price and they don't seem to take themselves as seriously.

[Stephanie B]

I'm SUPER interested in PCSL as a sport. I think when the IDPA season is over and I take my yearly break from revolver I'm going to whip out my PCC and shoot some of those matches. We've got a club local to me

Should I share that my first thought about what the PCS League was that it had something to do with speed-packing up a U-Haul truck?

Nah, probably not...

[Stephanie B]

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

Hey, did I just wander into the "NRA Shitstorm" thread?

[RevolverRob]

The financials of USPSA actually belie the fact that it should be an easy organization to run correctly. $3,000,000 is chump change for most tax exempt groups or small business people. The fact that they can't run it well indicates negligence on the level of stupidity or criminality (or both).

[GJM]

The financials of USPSA actually belie the fact that it should be an easy organization to run correctly. $3,000,000 is chump change for most tax exempt groups or small business people. The fact that they can't run it well indicates negligence on the level of stupidity or criminality (or both).

A problem with USPSA is who exactly is the "they?" There seem to be many who can throw monkey wrenches, like the BOD, NROI and maybe the President, but no one has the power to make decisions and right the ship.

[cheby]

A problem with USPSA is who exactly is the "they?" There seem to be many who can throw monkey wrenches, like the BOD, NROI and maybe the President, but no one has the power to make decisions and right the ship.

Typical non profit

[Archer1440]

Offered without comment. (I would hate to be banned from USPSA for offering my comments.)

https://uspsa.org/documents/announcements/Announcement_of_Resignation.pdf

[JCN]

Offered without comment. (I would hate to be banned from USPSA for offering my comments.)

https://uspsa.org/documents/announcements/Announcement_of_Resignation.pdf

I am at least somewhat consoled by this:


the Board offered to reduce his discipline to Level 3 and allow him to retain his RO certification if he agreed to accept responsibility for his behavior and complete mandatory re-education as required under the RO Discipline Procedure. However, Lin rejected the proposal leaving the Board with no option except to uphold the Level 4 discipline. Under the Bylaws, since Lin is no longer an RO, he is ineligible to hold office and is considered to have resigned as President of USPSA as of May 31, 2023.

They at least gave an option to remediate that IMO he should have taken.

Like it or not, if it were any other organization trying to be modern… HR would absolutely have done something like this.

[YVK]

Offered without comment. (I would hate to be banned from USPSA for offering my comments.)

https://uspsa.org/documents/announcements/Announcement_of_Resignation.pdf

Someone told me we had PCSL matches in the area but I couldn't find them.

[RJ]

I see this PCSL mentioned, I'm going to check that out.

https://www.pcsleague.com/

Edit: No matches in FL yet, boo.

https://practiscore.com/search/matches?query=PCSL


On topic, I am not currently a USPSA member as mine lapsed last year, but based on the input here, it seems odd they'd make someone step down from their position and withdraw their RSO creds based on a single incident.

In previous corporate life, I was briefly part of an investigation into an individual who shall we say had performance issues. It took quite a bit of documented and consistent evidence of a persistent history of misconduct in order to eventually fire this guy, but it took months and months. In the case of YML, it's not clear to me the punishment fits the crime, but USPSA gonna USPSA I guess.

[Archer1440]

Someone told me we had PCSL matches in the area but I couldn't find them.

There was one at SLPSA in late May.

Closest one on PractiScore appears to be a PCSL 2-gun match in St George Nov 29 - December 3.

[JCN]

There was one at SLPSA in late May.

Closest one on PractiScore appears to be a PCSL 2-gun match in St George Nov 29 - December 3.

The two day format of PCSL of some matches was a deal breaker for me.

Some of the 2 gun format suffers some of the setup and reset slowness that plagues 3-gun.

I’d rather just go to a 4-7 stage USPSA match or 10 stage IDPA match that usually takes from 9a-2p.

They offered YML a chance to admit and rehab, he chose not to.

Some of the descriptions of his shenanigans was unbecoming an RO at a major match.

I don’t want the RO humping my ass or calling Deltas Dicks.

They offered him a chance to take the high road and he chose not to. So I’m in agreement that’s a resignation.

I’m with the board on this one. Change has to happen somewhere, sometime. Regardless of what was in the past.

[cheby]

I am at least somewhat consoled by this:



They at least gave an option to remediate that IMO he should have taken.

Like it or not, if it were any other organization trying to be modern… HR would absolutely have done something like this.

I think YML decided to not even bother anymore. At this point why would anyone even want to be the president of USPSA??

[feudist]

I think YML decided to not even bother anymore. At this point why would anyone even want to be the president of USPSA??

I think Stoeger might...so that he could do barrel rolls augering in.:rolleyes:

[cheby]

I think Stoeger might...so that he could do barrel rolls augering in.:rolleyes:

Regardless of who is elected, the authority of the president has been greatly reduced by the recent bylaw changes and essentially is now controlled by the board. Here’s the funny part: a lot of that development were the reaction (overreaction perhaps) to Stoeger actions over the years.

[JCN]

I think YML decided to not even bother anymore. At this point why would anyone even want to be the president of USPSA??

I feel that way about the presidency of the USA.

And that was part of my initial response to the calling of “Foley must be terminated!”

Who are you going to find that’s less dysfunctional?

[ECK]

Regardless of who is elected, the authority of the president has been greatly reduced by the recent bylaw changes and essentially is now controlled by the board. Here’s the funny part: a lot of that development were the reaction (overreaction perhaps) to Stoeger actions over the years.

My impression was the changes to the bylaws governing the role of the President was the BOD’s attempt to curb one person’s ability to steam roll the org in a certain direction and enforce additional checks and balances. This was a departure from the previous governing model where one man (the President) was able to push through a number of changes that kicked off a lot of the polarization that is present in the membership today. For example: changes to Prod and CO weight limits, the list of allowed modifications to Prod and CO, hosting more nationals than the org can afford, etc. but one cannot ignore the fact that CO is/has been a raging success in its current form resulting from all the changes. But it is also true that there are people in both camps, those for and against the changes.

YML, and the other candidates that ran for President, knew that the role (and salary) had changed when they campaigned for the job, yet they still ran. And there appears to be a healthy number of people still interested in the position given the current list of candidates vying for the position in the current election.

I have to believe that all the candidates have the best interest of the sport in mind and want it to succeed. It’s self-serving for them to do so as their “job” is based on having a healthy organization. That being said, we may disagree on the details of what they feel would benefit the org or their priorities, but at the end of the day I think what we want is somebody who can speak articulately, promote the sport, and act like an adult.

I also think we should hold elected officials to a higher standard of behavior. Foley was a very competitive person (aren’t we all?) and I think that tendency led him to be combative in social media and in person when called out by a critic. From my interactions with YML at major matches over the years, I’ve seen him perform very conscientiously as a CRO/RO, but I’ve also seen him act like a frat-boy on spring break. As a result you never really knew which YML was going to show up. So I’m not surprised at the outcome here….