American Rifleman Reviews the 2011 Staccato

[Tokarev]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-staccato-2011-p-optic-ready/

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-staccato-2011-p/

I do find it quite interesting that the 2011 series seems to be gaining so much LE interest. The current number of departments issuing or allowing the 2011 is now at 500. Maybe more.

Given the price vs the price of basically everything else on the market I assume 99% of the guns being carried are individual officer purchase with probably only USMS SOG and a few well-funded SWAT teams buying for issue.

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[Tokarev]

So partially based on what's been a sidebar in my dumpster fire John Lovell thread; what's the maintenance protocol for departments buying/authorizing the 2011 for patrol or SWAT? I assume personal purchase guns are the responsibility of the end user. So are department-owned guns inspected and rebuilt by a trained armorer after X amount of rounds or X amount of time or do they just get left alone until someone notes a problem?

2011s have been usually pretty darned reliable in my experience with them in USPSA but I'm not carrying one daily. Getting in and out of vehicles. Banging the gun against door frames and generally having it exposed to the elements. It almost seems contradictory that a gun built to match tolerances is expected to run well in a duty environment. Especially such an environment without some periodic inspection and parts replacement.

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[JSGlock34]

I'm curious about what duty ammunition is being used by LA Metro and USMS SOG with these pistols. Speaking of the latter, I was surprised to see these pictures - is USMS SOG now also using or authorizing the Staccato XC?

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[Tokarev]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/opening-shot-u-s-marshals-get-trendy-new-rig/

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[JSGlock34]

Yes, the use of the Staccato P by USMS SOG has been well publicized for the last several years - but I've seen nothing indicating that the XC pictured above with USMS SOG markings has been in use.

[Caballoflaco]

Yes, the use of the Staccato P by USMS SOG has been well publicized for the last several years - but I've seen nothing indicating that the XC pictured above with USMS SOG markings has been in use.

Maybe it was gun used in their trails and sent back to Staccato and used at trade shows?

[Tokarev]

Here's a Sage Dynamics review from approx 2 years ago.


https://youtu.be/bhYaybIe0Z8

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[JSGlock34]

Maybe it was gun used in their trails and sent back to Staccato and used at trade shows?

Well, an Eagle eyed friend tipped me off that the DVC-P (which essentially became the Staccato XC) appeared in this video on USMS SOG. It first appears around the 35 second mark, and has USMS markings like the XC pictured above. Of course, the Staccato P appears more frequently.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkelZ1wGOc

[Tokarev]

Well, an Eagle eyed friend tipped me off that the DVC-P (which essentially became the Staccato XC) appeared in this video on USMS SOG. It first appears around the 35 second mark, and has USMS markings like the XC pictured above. Of course, the Staccato P appears more frequently.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkelZ1wGOcThat's pretty cool. Thanks for the link.

I assume the dude(s) with the XC are probably the guys who helped set up the approval....[emoji1]

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[Vista461]

I wish my department issued me something like a 2011, but we don’t issue handguns at all, they’re Officer supplied and I can’t justify >$2k for the gun out of my meager pay. Lol.

I haven’t seen any in my area, there’s a couple of county guys that carry 1911s, but no 2011s.

[Tokarev]

I can’t justify >$2k for the gun out of my meager pay.

Wrong priorities?

All joking aside I do believe that officer pricing (they call it the heroes program) is a pretty solid discount. It won't take all the sting away but it may turn it into a more of a dull ache.

Down side is the gun is probably just an enabler. Then you'll need a $300 light and $500 optic. And a $135 holster. And a half dozen more $60 mags.

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[TiroFijo]

It's been only 28 years since the first STI frames were made... call me cautious but I don't trust these newfangled hurried developments ;)

[Tokarev]

It's been only 28 years since the first STI frames were made... call me cautious but I don't trust these newfangled hurried developments ;)Here's a history of STI, in part:

https://www.trippresearchinc.com/about-us/

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[DaBigBR]

Wrong priorities?

All joking aside I do believe that officer pricing (they call it the heroes program) is a pretty solid discount. It won't take all the sting away but it may turn it into a more of a dull ache.

Down side is the gun is probably just an enabler. Then you'll need a $300 light and $500 optic. And a $135 holster. And a half dozen more $60 mags.

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LE discount is 15% off retail. There are greater discounts for group or agency buys.

Magazines are expensive however Triarc offers their Centrifuge Training branded ones to LE for $39.99 (17 round) so that's palatable. They appear to be the same OEM as Staccato.

[JSGlock34]

LE discount is 15% off retail. There are greater discounts for group or agency buys.

Magazines are expensive however Triarc offers their Centrifuge Training branded ones to LE for $39.99 (17 round) so that's palatable. They appear to be the same OEM as Staccato.

Do the LE orders still come with six magazines?

[DaBigBR]

Do the LE orders still come with six magazines?

The website says "three extra magazines". Mine were purchased back when you had to email Buck Pierson direct to order one and only came with three mags (but you could order as many more as you wanted for $39.99 each), so I'm not sure if you're getting six.

We are in the process of putting together a group buy so I might know more in the coming weeks.

[Tokarev]

Do the LE orders still come with six magazines?I think the LE guns ship with four mags. Two 126mm and two 140mm.

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[HeavyDuty]

I think the LE guns ship with four mags. Two 126mm and two 140mm.

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I don’t qualify, but I’ve been reading about Staccato. It does appear to be six for qualified individual officer purchases:

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[Tokarev]

I don’t qualify, but I’ve been reading about Staccato. It does appear to be six for qualified individual officer purchases:

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Oops. Yes, 4x17 and 2x20.


https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/articles/meet-staccatos-first-entry-into-the-law-enforcement-duty-gun-market-TV7jGicCEEmjtTkS/

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[babypanther]

Do the LE orders still come with six magazines?

Yes, just received mine 3 weeks ago with 5x17 rd and 1x extended mag, and a free optic plate.


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[Tokarev]

Staccato P and Leupold Deltapoint Pro in Jacksonville.


https://youtu.be/fWFrcDwgmXg

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[Tokarev]

Here's a bit of history on how the Staccato became a thing in LE.

It would be interesting to see how these departments with widespread issuance compare to the rest of the nation. Has this California department seen anything change in rounds fired vs. suspects hit? And then how does the 2011 compare in terms of user maintenance and parts replacement after the fact? Does the 4:1 cost ratio make any difference?

I can guess the answers. Still, I'm glad to see the 1911 soldiering on.


https://youtu.be/SOytt30J9Fw?si=0JdOFj-xH-SG0nRD

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[YVK]

Here's a bit of history on how the Staccato became a thing in LE.


I only listened for a minute. Did he say how many of those 1300 LE divisions issue those vs approve for duty?

[Tokarev]

I only listened for a minute. Did he say how many of those 1300 LE divisions issue those vs approve for duty?He says guns are carried by officers covering 1300 departments and 49 states. Could that be one guy who bought one on a 200 man department? Is that the range sergeant who uses one for instructor demos? He doesn't break it down that far.

He does say that Ontario, CA bought guns for the entire 300+ officer department. Ontario is the largest mass issuance to date.

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[cpd2110]

I would buy one of these for my own collection but I would not carry it on duty just based on the thumb safety and I don't have enough time left in the job to retrain my brain. One concern I have seen with these is the mag dropping out. I have seen two OIS videos, both in Cali I think, where the gun fires 1 round and the mag drops out. Likely it is an extended mag release being hit during the firing sequence (only a guess), but that is a big concern. I have been in a shooting class where it happened to the instructor who was using a custom 2011 also (happened probably 3 times). Southern LE agencies seem to have a 1911/2011 culture. Here in the midwest and local to me there is a Sheriff's department that has had 1911 as the issue gun for all of my 28 years but are soon going all Glock I believe. There are a few one off's but that type of platform is not really a thing in these parts. I hope the guys who carry them are true gun guys and are proactive on maintenance and upkeep.

I think the idea is that 1300 agencies allow the use of them as approved guns but most cops are not gun people as it has been covered here before. At the agencies where officers buy their own guns, most will go with the standard and not spend more than what a Glock or Sig would cost. I would also think most instructors would steer people towards a standard gun as it is likely easier to get them trained up vs the work that may be required for a 2011/1911 platform.

[Tokarev]

R.M.T. any movement with GCSO to a hicap?

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