John Lovell Offends Anyone Born Before 1980

[Tokarev]

Lol!

Phuc Long ain't got nothing on this guy...


https://youtu.be/9l2XNqoBC9k

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[1911Nut]

I thought about composing some witty reply to this video.

But then decided to just simplify it . . . . . .fuck this asshat.

[JCN]

I like him in general, but he was just ignorant.

It’s not a “modern” grip versus not.

Plenty of “modern” 2011s use that “archaic grip.”

[BehindBlueI's]

Fixed the title for you. If you're outside the edit window, you can just 'report' your own post and one of us mods will fix it for you as we get a chance.

Didn't click the video, assume it's some click-baity something from which I'm unlikely to learn anything I care to?

[Tokarev]

Fixed the title for you. If you're outside the edit window, you can just 'report' your own post and one of us mods will fix it for you as we get a chance.

Didn't click the video, assume it's some click-baity something from which I'm unlikely to learn anything I care to?Mostly him acknowledging the pistol has some history significance but that there are better handguns nowadays.

Years ago I took a Viking Tactics class. One of the students (a cop from California) was shooting a 1911. Lamb asked him what he was shooting. The guy replied something like, "Kimber 1911 in 45." Kyle said, "Oh, yeah. I've heard of those. I saw one once at the Airborne Museum at Fort Bragg." We all had a good laugh over it.

Anyway I think the title is still wrong. Anyone born before 1980 is probably super fond of the 1911. Anyone born after probably not so much. Tapatalk seems pretty limited in editing and reporting functions.

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[BehindBlueI's]

Mostly him acknowledging the pistol has some history significance but that there are better handguns nowadays.

Years ago I took a Viking Tactics class. One of the students (a cop from California) was shooting a 1911. Lamb asked him what he was shooting. The guy replied something like, "Kimber 1911 in 45." Kyle said, "Oh, yeah. I've heard of those. I saw one once at the Airborne Museum at Fort Bragg." We all had a good laugh over it.

Anyway I think the title is still wrong. Anyone born before 1980 is probably super fond of the 1911. Anyone born after probably not so much. Tapatalk seems pretty limited in editing and reporting functions.

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K. Unfixed. Or fixed. I'm not sure any more. :P

[Tokarev]

We need to crowdfund this class for John:

https://robleatham.com/1911-mastery-course/

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[RevolverRob]

I am a post-1980 birthdate and lover of 1911s.

So...he also offends people born after 1980.

Perhaps the appropriate title is, "Youtube gun guy you've never heard of, nor care about, is an asshat"

Actually, that's redundant, "Youtube Gun Guy" = Asshat.

[Joe in PNG]

Actually, that's redundant, "Youtube Gun Guy" = Asshat.

You have made the Baby Gun Jesus sad.

[Suvorov]

Mostly him acknowledging the pistol has some history significance but that there are better handguns nowadays.

Years ago I took a Viking Tactics class. One of the students (a cop from California) was shooting a 1911. Lamb asked him what he was shooting. The guy replied something like, "Kimber 1911 in 45." Kyle said, "Oh, yeah. I've heard of those. I saw one once at the Airborne Museum at Fort Bragg." We all had a good laugh over it.

Anyway I think the title is still wrong. Anyone born before 1980 is probably super fond of the 1911. Anyone born after probably not so much. Tapatalk seems pretty limited in editing and reporting functions.

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1971 here and I’m a M9 and SIG fanboy. Speaking as a Gen-x er I’d say 1970 is your cutoff.

[TheNewbie]

In 100 years when DAO and DA/SA are cool again, will there be videos about how outdated the Glock 17 is?

[TGS]

https://i.imgflip.com/38fqty.jpg

[wvincent]

In 100 years when DAO and DA/SA are cool again, will there be videos about how outdated the Glock 17 is?

Too soon. I'm waiting for the circle to complete and enjoy all of GJM's posts about competing with a Colt SAA with closed emitter and weapon light attached, preferably a U-boat.

"The Warrior Poet" is entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to care about it.

[TGS]

I love my 1911 and want to add another, but nothing in his video offended me, because I don't have any problem admitting that it's a completely fucking absurd choice for a defensive firearm in the modern day and that listening to boomers wax about JMBs creation and the power of the 45 is godawful.

[TheNewbie]

If modern manufacturers would only take the lesson of how to make a great thumb safety from the 1911, I would be happy.

[wvincent]

I love my 1911 and want to add another, but nothing in his video offended me, because I don't have any problem admitting that it's a completely fucking absurd choice for a defensive firearm in the modern day and that listening to boomers wax about JMBs creation and the power of the 45 is god's caliber.

FIFY, your welcome:D

[TheNewbie]

Too soon. I'm waiting for the circle to complete and enjoy all of GJM's posts about competing with a Colt SAA with closed emitter and weapon light attached, preferably a U-boat.

"The Warrior Poet" is entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to care about it.


I think he’s probably a great dude and does a lot of good.


His style however is not my style and it gets on my nerves. Then again he’s making money and I’m posting my thoughts on a gun forum. Though it is the greatest forum in the history of forums. :D

[TGS]

FIFY, your welcome:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwveuIRWxBo

[feudist]

He's got great hair and pretty eyes.

The "Warrior Poet" moniker is pure cringe.

[Darth_Uno]

Ah, whatever. I like most of Lovell's stuff, but I don't follow him too closely. I like 1911's better. I carry Glocks.

Like TheNewbie said, Lovell's getting paid to opine while I am not. Drama = clicks = $. Wish I'd thought of that.

[BehindBlueI's]

1971 here and I’m a M9 and SIG fanboy. Speaking as a Gen-x er I’d say 1970 is your cutoff.

Also Gen-Xer and I'd say anyone who survived the Clinton AWB is more likely to be a fan of big ol' single stacks and the .45. Did I mention how many P220s I own?

[Trukinjp13]

Born after 80. Love 1911s. Also know mine is a money pit that I do not know if I’d ever actually carry. Maybe if I had Wilson/Nighthawk money. But then I’d probably bitch up and not want to lose it if I need it. So yeah back to not carrying it.

Not offended in the least by this.

Have we not had most the bigger named YouTube guys do the same thing since it started? Say Glocks and etc. are better carry guns and then people got butt hurt.

Hell, Kyle Lamb went into Mogadishu without a damn sidearm because he seen too many unit 1911s choke.

Don’t hate me please. I really do love mine. I don’t want to be cancelled.


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[Oldherkpilot]

1960 guy here. Went all in on the Colt's Government Model in my youth. Sent it to Pachmayr for a Combat Special package. It accompanied me to a couple wars, augmenting the Model 15 Smiths we were issued prior to the M9s. It is beautiful and accurate pistol and will always have a special place in my heart. However, nowadays, I carry DA/SA CZs and HK LEMs. Although I may get stoned for heresy, I would carry any one of my S&W sixguns into a fight before a 1911. If I tell you I don't like Glocks, can I get a pass on the 40 lashes?😁

[randyho]

I took it as light-hearted, mischievous and intentionally-provocative hilarity.

He was basing an opinion on a modified, by God knows who, Kimber with magazines of unknown pedigree along with what looked to be garbage grips and unmatched sights. Looks like he's trying to race with it prior to getting a lot of reps with it. I respect the obvious commitment to safety while running and gunning displayed.

As someone who's always owned glocks and has only recently delved into 1911's, all of his observations are not without merit.

[revchuck38]

Anyone born before 1980 is probably super fond of the 1911. Anyone born after probably not so much.

Nope. Born early 50s, my two Series 70 Colts spend 364 days a year in the safe. Currently carrying a G45, usually carrying a PX4 or P99C or a 3" M10-7.

[5pins]

I get so tired of these young whippersnappers, tide pod eating, millennials disrespecting the greatest side arm invented by man. :D

[rd62]

I've owned or own and enjoyed shooting Beretta's, 1911's, and revolvers, but with rare exception carry and compete with Glocks. As much as I love the history, aesthetics, and soul of 1911's a modern Glock, Sig, etc is for me a much more practical defensive sidearm for a number of reasons. Hell, I don't even currently own a holster for my 1911! I think of it much like my fondness for classic cars, trucks, and motorcycles. I'd love a classic Mustang, CJ, F100, etc but not as a daily driver I'd need to depend on in a pinch.

This reminds me I need to order a holster for my Commander... Something appropriate in leather.

[Robinson]

Bah!

[Rex G]

One advantage of having been born in 1961 is that I got to hate the original Glock G17, in real time, at its introduction. ;)

Actually, I was not a hater. I simply did not favor the grip ergonomics, or the very-mechanically-feeling trigger pull. Gen3 introduced a tolerable-for-me grip, and Gen4 introduced a grip that worked quite well for me, and still does. I am fine with Glocks, even though I doubt that I will never shoot one nearly as well as I have been able to shoot 1911 pistols, SIGs of their classic era, or medium and large revolvers.

I liked Germanic firearms, early on; I owned a pair of HK P7 pistols, by 1985, and even had a PD-spec flap-type duty holster custom-made, so that I could carry one while on duty, in uniform, working for a PD that had a quite wide-open duty pistol policy, back in the day. It was the adoption of open-top retention holsters, for duty revolvers, that prompted my transition back to a duty revolver. (The draw, from the flap holster, was, well, slow, and I’d already had one bad scare, when someone justifiably needed shootin’.)

Even though my first pistol, in 1982 or 1983, was a 1911, I did not own a 1911 that fed JHPs reliably, until the Nineties, so I did not depend upon a 1911 to be a carry or duty handgun during my early handgunning years.

[SecondsCount]

To me, who was born before 1980, the 1911 is the best looking pistol ever made.

It gets a lot of grief for a lot of silly reasons but I would rather take one to war than the current military choice.

[randyho]

Guys. Relax. Really.

[MVS]

He lost me before this, about the time he went all bosom buddy with James Yeager.

[medmo]

Great hate on the Pachmayr thong grips. That's a surprise.

[Borderland]

The 1911 is a horse pistol. Designed for the US cavalry. No, not the airborne cavalry, the one that used horses when Pershing (with his dick in his hand) was chasing Poncho Villa around in Mexico before WW1.

I'm not sure why a "gun guy" would want to dis a 1911 or even a Colt Dragoon, but there you have it. Wife beater white trailer trash.

[JohnO]

I suppose if you look up a number of posts I've authored here in the past you will see I'm a 1911 aficionado. And yeah I predate 1980.

You will see I've gotten plenty of jazz from trainers in the past about showing up with a 1911. (Side note: is a Kimber a real 1911? :D)

Todd Green told me my 1911 would not make it through his class. It did just fine.

JD Potynsky told me my 1911 would not make it through the Northern Red class.

Kyle Defoor made it a point to say the 1911 was an archaic weapon from a bygone era. This came up when he demonstrated contact shots on the target. Kyle said the 1911 could not do what his Glock did because it would get pushed out of battery and be incapable of firing. Kyle also tried to impress the class with the fact that his Glock had an aftermarket barrel with a tighter lockup than a stock Glock barrel giving a "capable" guy more latitude with a contact shot. As in even less likely to come out of battery due to the tight lockup. My response: "Watch this"! I drew my 1911 and jammed it into the target with many more times the force Kyle used with his Glock. I even grabbed the target frame and pulled it into my 1911. The force on the business end of my 1911 was undeniable. Then I proceeded to blow an .45 caliber hole through the target. I explained to Kyle how it was done. The gun was on safe thereby locking the gun into battery. Trigger depressed. The safety is used to Fire the gun. So Kyle admitted he learned something and I proved my archaic weapon was more "capable" than his Tupperware.

It's the Indian not the Arrow. A skilled guy with a Hi-Point will kill a poser with the latest gun du jour that he just had to have because _____________ says it is the best. Every day and twice on Sunday!

[Borderland]

The 1911 is a horse pistol. Designed for the US cavalry. No, not the airborne cavalry, the one that used horses when Pershing (with his dick in his hand) was chasing Poncho Villa around in Mexico before WW1.

I'm not sure why a "gun guy" would want to dis a 1911 or even a Colt Dragoon, but there you have it. Wife beater white trailer trash.

[YVK]

What's his specialty in training, teaching people to shoot IDPA?


Asking 'cause nobody in USPSA would use that gear he has, and nobody in defensive training community would run with a 1911 between positions without re-engaging thumb safety first.

[Trooper224]

Hey, any guy who can bring Apollo 13 back home is entitled to his opinion. Wait,....... John who?

So, Patriot Nurse doesn't like 1911s. Learning has occurred.

[Patrick Taylor]

Signed up for Lovell's site when it was first announced. Did not renew for a 2nd year , I hope it has improved. Lots of youtube level videos with grown men acting like stupid teenagers.

Also was in a class with Yeager once. The rear sight fell off his pistol during the class and he had to leave the line several times to clear the jams in his plastic wonder 9mm.

[Ichiban]

Yawn. TBH I only watched bits and pieces but it was the same old same old.

But I'm sure it served its purpose and generated a lot of clicks.

[Suvorov]

Also Gen-Xer and I'd say anyone who survived the Clinton AWB is more likely to be a fan of big ol' single stacks and the .45. Did I mention how many P220s I own?

Sure, or the kind of guy who hoards standard capacity magazines because they remember spending $100 for a 13 round P228 magazine.

[RevolverRob]

I get so tired of these young whippersnappers, tide pod eating, millennials disrespecting the greatest side arm invented by man. :D

Two World Wars
Korea
Vietnam
Cold War
Desert Storm
Global War on Terror

And pretty soon World War III

1911s, not tanks, airplanes, bombs, or infantrymen, win wars.

[45dotACP]

Great, more YouTube gun personalities acting like they're being edgy by saying the 1911 isn't the ultra-mega-spec-ops-handcannon.

Edgelording so hard I feel like he is going to subject me to a 9th grade literature analysis of Crime and Punishment going on about how Raskolnikov did nothing wrong.

I feel like this topic truly has been beaten to death, only for it to be dragged out and beaten some more by some condescending 50 dollar haircut with a beard that could be best described with the phrase "I wish."

BTW I was born in 1990

[BehindBlueI's]

Great, more YouTube gun personalities acting like they're being edgy by saying the 1911 isn't the ultra-mega-spec-ops-handcannon.

Edgelording so hard I feel like he is going to subject me to a 9th grade literature analysis of Crime and Punishment going on about how Raskolnikov did nothing wrong.

I feel like this topic truly has been beaten to death, only for it to be dragged out and beaten some more by some condescending 50 dollar haircut with a beard that could be best described with the phrase "I wish."

BTW I was born in 1990

AAAA+ rant. Would read again.

[FrankB]

That guy just annoys me for some reason. I thought James Yeager was obnoxious, but Lovell’s whole demeanor rubs me the wrong way. Eric from IraqVet8888 had Lovell on a live podcast, and the comments were not favorable. He has a line of Glock something pistols branded “Warrior Poet”, so it’s in his best financial interest to knock everything else.

[shootist26]

so what's the backstory about this guy? Never heard of him

[RDT806]

I tend to like most of his stuff. He was an Army Ranger and has a lot of combat experience. I dont base my opinion of people on what gun they like. I was born in 78 and I like the 1911 for what it is. I dont and never have carried one technically. I do carry a Staccato sometimes. Someone poking fun at them is no more annoying than the tWo wOrLd wArs guys.

[Wake27]

I’m surprised by some of the responses on here. To me, he’s the funniest person I watch on YouTube. He also puts out a lot of content that I agree with and/or appreciate. I think a 1911 was my second gun and I’ve had one ever since but don’t think there’s anything he said that my experience has proven otherwise. He was also repeatedly open about things being a preference.

This is probably one of (if not the) least serious videos he’s made so if that’s your gripe, may be worth exploring others.


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[Wake27]

I like him in general, but he was just ignorant.

It’s not a “modern” grip versus not.

Plenty of “modern” 2011s use that “archaic grip.”

Modern 2011s which are basically double stack 1911s?


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[Joe Mac]

Sure, or the kind of guy who hoards standard capacity magazines because they remember spending $100 for a 13 round P228 magazine.

As a young cop trying to train to a high level of proficiency in the 90s, I spent $100 x quite a few pre-ban Glock mags, because my department would not give me letterhead to buy more than TWO mags beyond the three they issued me.

So I am absolutely a mag hoarder -- especially now that my state has banned the sale of standard capacity mags as of July.

[TGS]

so what's the backstory about this guy? Never heard of him

Did some combat tours with the 75th Rangers. Had/has a successful youtube channel that turned into a full-time job when youtube went big. When Youtube started going after gun channels he tried to launch an alternate universe for gun owners and lots of people around here got mega gay for him.

I guess he's not beloved anymore because he's picking on the 1911.

Sniffle sniffle pouty pout.


I’m surprised by some of the responses on here. To me, he’s the funniest person I watch on YouTube. He also puts out a lot of content that I agree with and/or appreciate. I think a 1911 was my second gun and I’ve had one ever since but don’t think there’s anything he said that my experience has proven otherwise. He was also repeatedly open about things being a preference.

This is probably one of (if not the) least serious videos he’s made so if that’s your gripe, may be worth exploring others.


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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/751/692/0d6.jpg

[Wake27]

I suppose if you look up a number of posts I've authored here in the past you will see I'm a 1911 aficionado. And yeah I predate 1980.

You will see I've gotten plenty of jazz from trainers in the past about showing up with a 1911. (Side note: is a Kimber a real 1911? :D)

Todd Green told me my 1911 would not make it through his class. It did just fine.

JD Potynsky told me my 1911 would not make it through the Northern Red class.

Kyle Defoor made it a point to say the 1911 was an archaic weapon from a bygone era. This came up when he demonstrated contact shots on the target. Kyle said the 1911 could not do what his Glock did because it would get pushed out of battery and be incapable of firing. Kyle also tried to impress the class with the fact that his Glock had an aftermarket barrel with a tighter lockup than a stock Glock barrel giving a "capable" guy more latitude with a contact shot. As in even less likely to come out of battery due to the tight lockup. My response: "Watch this"! I drew my 1911 and jammed it into the target with many more times the force Kyle used with his Glock. I even grabbed the target frame and pulled it into my 1911. The force on the business end of my 1911 was undeniable. Then I proceeded to blow an .45 caliber hole through the target. I explained to Kyle how it was done. The gun was on safe thereby locking the gun into battery. Trigger depressed. The safety is used to Fire the gun. So Kyle admitted he learned something and I proved my archaic weapon was more "capable" than his Tupperware.

It's the Indian not the Arrow. A skilled guy with a Hi-Point will kill a poser with the latest gun du jour that he just had to have because _____________ says it is the best. Every day and twice on Sunday!

Every day except the day that the high point malfunctions from the get go?


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[JCN]

Modern 2011s which are basically double stack 1911s?


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Yes, that’s my point of how do you call a 1911 archaic when 2011s are duty approved.

[Wake27]

Yes, that’s my point of how do you call a 1911 archaic when 2011s are duty approved.

The design is over 100 years old. Any gun that old is archaic. 2011s retain the vast majority of features of a 1911 so I think many of us would agree that they’ve been remodeled for this century but their base design and tons of their features still stem from over 100 years ago.

He beat the archaic and modern thing well past death, but I think it does have merit.

ETA - one other thing to note (not tied to JCN’s quoted post, but just overall), is that there is an insane level of institutionally inbred knowledge and mental masturbation when it comes to the 1911. I check 1911Addicts regularly for several reason but sometimes it really is just to get a chuckle. Many hardcore 1911 guys are so closed minded that’s it’s borderline insane. And I like 1911s. But a lot of the greatly exaggerated jabs he took at the hardliners are not really exaggerated.

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[TheNewbie]

I think this reaction is what he planned for and wanted. Which means he’s smart. In general, he is annoying to me, but he is a good ambassador for the gun community and I’m glad he is on our team.


Series 80, polymer, external extractor, with USP like reliability, and Blue Label Glock prices, 1911 please. It’s gotta be possible, has to be!

[Trukinjp13]

He is actually one of the gun celebs or whatever the hell you want to call them, that is very articulate and to the point when the media speaks to him. Or in his response to a certain celeb insulting the culture. He does not sound like a ass or some whack job that owns guns.

He has done the thing and is a pretty good shooter. I appreciate his honesty and think he does a good job to be a voice. This video got the exact response he wanted. People losing their shit over a YouTube video. So bravo for that.

Yeah he is friends with Yaeger but so are some other guys that I thought got some serious respect around here. So either we hate all of them or just realize we all can like or have our own opinions about certain people, and not use that as a way to judge them.


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[YVK]

I don't know if anyone is losing their shit. This isn't a 1911 forum after all. In year 2022 making a point that a 1911, or 2011 for that matter, isn't a duty pistol (was it his point, I didn't watch past 4 min?) is like an exercise in stating the obvious.
I just wish that if someone was making that point on a 1911 in a video form, they'd look like they knew how to run a 1911.

[Trooper224]

The design is over 100 years old. Any gun that old is archaic. 2011s retain the vast majority of features of a 1911 so I think many of us would agree that they’ve been remodeled for this century but their base design and tons of their features still stem from over 100 years ago.

He beat the archaic and modern thing well past death, but I think it does have merit.

ETA - one other thing to note (not tied to JCN’s quoted post, but just overall), is that there is an insane level of institutionally inbred knowledge and mental masturbation when it comes to the 1911. I check 1911Addicts regularly for several reason but sometimes it really is just to get a chuckle. Many hardcore 1911 guys are so closed minded that’s it’s borderline insane. And I like 1911s. But a lot of the greatly exaggerated jabs he took at the hardliners are not really exaggerated.

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I didn't watch the whole video, but I have a hard time sitting through most of the product put out by YouTubers in general. What I did watch of this one did seem to have tongue planted firmly in cheek much of the time. The tribalism and institutionality he's poking fun at exist in any pursuit, not just guns and not just the 1911 within guns. I didn't watch more than two or three minutes and that was skipping through. It strikes me as clickbait created to generate hits more than anything else. It's not as if that horse is hasn't been beaten fully dead already.

If you want to see 1911 derp try Facebook groups, it makes most of this seem like a MENSA chapter meeting. I tried it for about two days and I thought my head was going to explode.

[Corse]

I don’t know what’s worse? Bagging on 1911s by Glock “perfection” dudes or Fudd’s that can’t shoot talking crap about anything Browning didn’t design. Video is obviously for comedy, but it’s still dumb. 10\10 would not recommend or whatever

[RevolverRob]

Some folks say archaic, I say mature.

It's just a matter of perspective.

[Trooper224]

Some folks say archaic, I say mature.

It's just a matter of perspective.

"Vintage"

[Suvorov]

"Vintage"

Says the guy who just spent $800 on the medieval analog of a pistol. ;)

[IDontDoQuests]

In 100 years when DAO and DA/SA are cool again, will there be videos about how outdated the Glock 17 is?

That's already where we're at today. Langdon had a lot to do with it. Pretty much just about every forum I go to, the recommendation seems to be HK P30, USPs, PX4s, and some 92 series pistol when people ask what handgun they should have.

[Trooper224]

Says the guy who just spent $800 on the medieval analog of a pistol. ;)

So I ought to know!

[HammerStriker]

I don’t know what’s worse? Bagging on 1911s by Glock “perfection” dudes or Fudd’s that can’t shoot talking crap about anything Browning didn’t design. Video is obviously for comedy, but it’s still dumb. 10\10 would not recommend or whatever

Agreed, silly video, but Lovell is an ex Army Ranger, and currently a firearms instructor.

[IDontDoQuests]

Great, more YouTube gun personalities acting like they're being edgy by saying the 1911 isn't the ultra-mega-spec-ops-handcannon.

Edgelording so hard I feel like he is going to subject me to a 9th grade literature analysis of Crime and Punishment going on about how Raskolnikov did nothing wrong.

I feel like this topic truly has been beaten to death, only for it to be dragged out and beaten some more by some condescending 50 dollar haircut with a beard that could be best described with the phrase "I wish."

BTW I was born in 1990

All youtube gun personalities are just grown men who want attention and to be viewed as "bad ass". I've thought about making videos dispelling ACTUAL myths, even the one's these youtube gun guys push, but I'm afraid I'll turn into one of them.

[JodyH]

Mehh.
Born in '70. Wasn't offended.
On the practical side I've always been lukewarm on 1911's since I've always had hell consistently deactivating the grip safeties.
On the emotional side...
Always liked the look of 1911's because of that awesome Asian photographer guy back in the '80's magazine days.
Always disliked the idea of carrying a 1911 (or CZ) because I was never a Jeff Cooper fan when he was in his curmudgeon years... sorry not sorry.

First ever pistol bought when I turned 21 (in '91) was a Gen2 Glock 17 (because of the cool NASA poster behind the gun counter featuring it when their security adopted it). :cool:

I have the Warrior Poet Society podcast in my playlist. I'm about 50:50 on John. Sometimes his podcast is really solid, sometimes it's an immediate delete.
I rarely actually watch any YouTube gun vids.

[flyrodr]

1949. And I think I had some really important-to-no-one-but-me thoughts to add. But by the time I got through reading here to page seven, I have forgotten exactly what we were talking about.

Oh yeah . . . I agree: no one really uses a straight razor any more, now that we have Gillette Super Blue Blades!!

[45dotACP]

I think the funniest thing about this whole thread is that nobody is even saying Lovell is wrong.

He's just late to the party by several years.

It's like saying revolvers are no longer the ideal service weapon for police departments in 2002. For the most part you get the fudds all butthurt and everyone else says "yah no shit"

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[Stephanie B]

Great, more YouTube gun personalities acting like they're being edgy by saying the 1911 isn't the ultra-mega-spec-ops-handcannon.

Edgelording so hard I feel like he is going to subject me to a 9th grade literature analysis of Crime and Punishment going on about how Raskolnikov did nothing wrong.

I feel like this topic truly has been beaten to death, only for it to be dragged out and beaten some more by some condescending 50 dollar haircut with a beard that could be best described with the phrase "I wish."

BTW I was born in 1990

I wasn't.

In my OCS class, the Battalion Commander was a woman who had never picked up a gun in her life. She wasn't much above 5'0" and I'd have been surprised if she was over 100lbs. We got some basic training on WW2-era 1911A1s and then shot for score at 25 yards on B8 targets with service ammunition. She blew the center out of her target. (She taped it on the door to her room until the OCS commanding officer ordered it taken down.)

Maybe she was an outlier. But when some young guy (non-disabled) says that a 1911 is too much gun or it can't be shot well, my first reaction is "you're a pussy". (I've learned to not say that out loud.)

So I have no time for that crap and, based on what all you guys are saying about the video, I'm not going to give him the satisfaction of racking up another set of eyeballs.

[jh9]

https://i.imgflip.com/6efcbr.jpg

People born before 1980: angery
People before after 1980: also angy
People born in 1980: ???

[JCN]

88196


I think he should do a video next on how he hates revolvers because he can’t shoot those well either.

[Dave Williams]

I’ve never been able to watch his videos, but I can’t make it through Aaron Cowan videos either.

[GearFondler]

The successful YouTube guys have turned it into a business for themselves and one of the most important requirements for success in that arena is a constant steam of new content... With the pressure on to always be releasing new vids there is bound to be a lot of duds.

[ccmdfd]

I think this reaction is what he planned for and wanted. Which means he’s smart. In general, he is annoying to me, but he is a good ambassador for the gun community and I’m glad he is on our team.




Exactly!

Too bad (for him) he doesn't get any $ for all of the internet Forum chatter that that video has spawned. He would be rich in an instant!

[beenalongtime]

Hey, any guy who can bring Apollo 13 back home is entitled to his opinion. Wait,....... John who?



I decided to go to bed, after reading it as Jon Lovitz, but then I saw who was in the video and while I haven't watched it I figured this would be like Manny from Lucky Gunner type of thing.

[Lost River]

30 seconds was enough for me.

What I got was Derp, Derp Derp.

What many of these guys don't seem to realize is that while they may get some "clicks", they are losing any credibility they might have. Many people watch that for a bit and think "what a tool" and move on to something else. That is the lasting impression that the guy leaves.

[Lex Luthier]

I know he is a partner in some venture with SouthNarc, so he gets a sort of pass from me.
But at the same time, I can't listen to his delivery any longer than Lost River can, so he gets passed over by me.
Maybe my loss, maybe not.

[Corse]

Agreed, silly video, but Lovell is an ex Army Ranger, and currently a firearms instructor.

That’s cool, but he admits he sucks at shooting a 1911, so how much is his opinion worth on the subject?

[358156hp]

John changes his positions and recommendations so often that I finally had to stop watching his work.

He has also gotten very commercial in the past few years.

[Jason Burton]

I gotta say I find it interesting that after all these years the 1911 is still such a polarizing gun that videos like this are still being made.

I looked at the video while I did some office work so I probably didn’t pay it the attention it deserves but I was more troubled by what seemed to be his lack of understanding of how a pistol should be zeroed than anything he said about the 1911 platform.

At the same time I find it interesting that my kid first shot a 45ACP 1911 when he was 5 or 6 and was able to have the gun work without issue while this professional was buffaloed by a 100+ year old design. Maybe my kid just had a better gun?

... all of my inherent pro-1911 biases are included in the above statement... ;)

[Tokarev]

88211

[Trooper224]

I gotta say I find it interesting that after all these years the 1911 is still such a polarizing gun that videos like this are still being made.

I looked at the video while I did some office work so I probably didn’t pay it the attention it deserves but I was more troubled by what seemed to be his lack of understanding of how a pistol should be zeroed than anything he said about the 1911 platform.

At the same time I find it interesting that my kid first shot a 45ACP 1911 when he was 5 or 6 and was able to have the gun work without issue while this professional was buffaloed by a 100+ year old design. Maybe my kid just had a better gun?

... all of my inherent pro-1911 biases are included in the above statement... ;)

I suspect your kid gets better guns than most of us will ever see. ;)

[Le Français]

I suspect your kid gets better guns than most of us will ever see. ;)

Yeah, I was thinking "that’s not really a maybe”.

[Darth_Uno]

For a bunch of pretty competent shooters who are above caring what Youtubers have to say, this thread got pretty emo.

I tore his poster off my wall though.

[Trooper224]

For a bunch of pretty competent shooters who are above caring what Youtubers have to say, this thread got pretty emo.

I tore his poster off my wall though.

No matter how competent and professional a group may be, egos and emotions can still come into play.

Even when the 1911 was general issue it was still a niche choice amongst the populace, as well as being hated by many forced to carry it. It was hated by many when the revolver was king and didn't gain any real traction amongst those who could choose until Jeff Cooper popularized it. Even then, it probably wouldn't have gained any significant ground if Cooper hadn't created gun games built around it.

I've been shooting it since I was six years old, so there'll always be several in my battery. I pack it because I like it and that's my entire reason. I'll freely admit it won't do anything better than many other quality pistols. On the other hand, I don't live and die by the opinion of YouTube personalities regardless of their worth. I'm also a grown ass man who doesn't crave validation from much of anything or anyone. So, I kind of scratch my head over the strong responses a video, that's so obviously half in the bag, creates.

[Tokarev]

Even when the 1911 was general issue it was still a niche choice amongst the populace, as well as being hated by many forced to carry it. It was hated by many when the revolver was king and didn't gain any real traction amongst those who could choose until Jeff Cooper popularized it. Even then, it probably wouldn't have gained any significant ground if Cooper hadn't created gun games built around it.

Cooper probably, almost single-handedly, did more to kill 9mm in the 1980s and 1990s than anyone. Arguably the Hi-Power would have been more popular had Cooper not been so vehemently opposed to 9mm.

With that said, it was only about 15 years ago that 1911s accounted for something like 40% of new handgun sales in the US. This explains why SIG, Ruger, S&W and many others got into the 1911 market. Sales of 1911s have likely slumped now over the last few years with the explosion of polymer striker fired guns but the 1911 platform has some life left.

As an example there are now 500 US law enforcement agencies authorizing the Staccato 2011 for duty carry. Who'd think something like this would be possible given the glut of really good (and way way less expensive) alternatives.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

Cooper probably, almost single-handedly, did more to kill 9mm in the 1980s and 1990s than anyone. Arguably the Hi-Power would have been more popular had Cooper not been so vehemently opposed to 9mm.

With that said, it was only about 15 years ago that 1911s accounted for something like 40% of new handgun sales in the US. This explains why SIG, Ruger, S&W and many others got into the 1911 market. Sales of 1911s have likely slumped now over the last few years with the explosion of polymer striker fired guns but the 1911 platform has some life left.

As an example there are now 500 US law enforcement agencies authorizing the Staccato 2011 for duty carry. Who'd think something like this would be possible given the glut of really good (and way way less expensive) alternatives.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

One of the younger Deputy Marshals I was working with is on the USMS SOG. As I'm sure you know, SOG has authorized the Staccato for use. We ran into each other at the range and he was gushing about his new blaster. He became very confused when I pointed out that, in its guts, it's just a 1911. I see so many shooters, some very experienced and professional, who've hated on Gods Gun pretty much forever. Yet now, they're acting as if the Staccato is the second coming of Jesus or something. It's a head scratcher. I guess anyone is susceptible to the flavor of the moment syndrome.

I also think magazine bans did wonders for the 1911s life extension. It seemed to be on the steep decline before ten round mags became a thing, then there was another surge in 1911 interest.

[wvincent]

As an example there are now 500 US law enforcement agencies authorizing the Staccato 2011 for duty carry. Who'd think something like this would be possible given the glut of really good (and way way less expensive) alternatives.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

So what is the driver for this?
Slick marketing?
Cool kid factor?
Better qual scores?

I don't get it. You get in my opinion a better trigger, but a more complicated manual of arms due to the grip safety and thumb safety.
How does that work for the non-gun guy officer who views his service weapon as just another tool, like his radio or pen.

[Trooper224]

So what is the driver for this?
Slick marketing?
Cool kid factor?
Better qual scores?

All of the above, plus John Wick.


I don't get it. You get in my opinion a better trigger, but a more complicated manual of arms due to the grip safety and thumb safety.
How does that work for the non-gun guy officer who views his service weapon as just another tool, like his radio or pen.

It doesn't. As far as I know, most departments that have authorized it have made it an option not standard issue.

[1911Nut]

I gotta say I find it interesting that after all these years the 1911 is still such a polarizing gun that videos like this are still being made.

I looked at the video while I did some office work so I probably didn’t pay it the attention it deserves but I was more troubled by what seemed to be his lack of understanding of how a pistol should be zeroed than anything he said about the 1911 platform.

At the same time I find it interesting that my kid first shot a 45ACP 1911 when he was 5 or 6 and was able to have the gun work without issue while this professional was buffaloed by a 100+ year old design. Maybe my kid just had a better gun?

... all of my inherent pro-1911 biases are included in the above statement... ;)

Can I like a quote 5 times?

[JMS]

I see so many shooters, some very experienced and professional, who've hated on Gods Gun pretty much forever. Yet now, they're acting as if the Staccato is the second coming of Jesus or something. It's a head scratcher. I guess anyone is susceptible to the flavor of the moment syndrome.

I also think magazine bans did wonders for the 1911s life extension. It seemed to be on the steep decline before ten round mags became a thing, then there was another surge in 1911 interest.

Look also at how 9mm 1911s and similar patterns, heretofore judged to be ONLY viable in, say, .38 Super and .45ACP, were all of a sudden able to be produced and reliably operated in other calibers....as the God's Gun progenitors started getting older and needed something that didn't beat up their pretzel joints as much... As soon as they had a direct, "affects-ME" need for 9mm to work, 9mm started being a viable option.

RE: 2011...despite the Corps' most recent, idiotic last-hurrah w/the M45A1, and the stubborn hangers-on, the pattern remains a sub-optimal ORGANIZATIONAL weapon in the face of what's available from modern production. It's not about the gun itself, but being able to support it through it's life-cycle. The need for a no-shit organic gunsmith capability, vice a more straightforward and attainable armorer capability, has been and will be again a slap in the face to those agencies who make it a pool gun. Warranties only go so far; once they're done, without organic gunsmithing, you end up with a lot of guns sitting in the cage with paper tags hanging offa the trigger-guard because that's all you can do with then until they're unfucked or otherwise dealt with...all too frequently by yet another source-selection. That's often paid a lot of lip-service, because it's just not the sexy part of weapons' procurement.

If that was ever institutional knowledge within the LE community, it was lost somewhere along the way, and is probably gonna be re-learned. Filed under "I hope I'm wrong...but don't think I am

[ccmdfd]

Can someone create a YouTube video that reignites the 9 mm vs 45 ACP debate again?

( or combat sight picture versus Target sight picture, or Glock versus XYZ, or 226 vs 92,.......)

[Tokarev]

Look also at how 9mm 1911s and similar patterns, heretofore judged to be ONLY viable in, say, .38 Super and .45ACP, were all of a sudden able to be produced and reliably operated in other calibers....as the God's Gun progenitors started getting older and needed something that didn't beat up their pretzel joints as much... As soon as they had a direct, "affects-ME" need for 9mm to work, 9mm started being a viable option.

RE: 2011...despite the Corps' most recent, idiotic last-hurrah w/the M45A1, and the stubborn hangers-on, the pattern remains a sub-optimal ORGANIZATIONAL weapon in the face of what's available from modern production. It's not about the gun itself, but being able to support it through it's life-cycle. The need for a no-shit organic gunsmith capability, vice a more straightforward and attainable armorer capability, has been and will be again a slap in the face to those agencies who make it a pool gun. Warranties only go so far; once they're done, without organic gunsmithing, you end up with a lot of guns sitting in the cage with paper tags hanging offa the trigger-guard because that's all you can do with then until they're unfucked or otherwise dealt with...all too frequently by yet another source-selection. That's often paid a lot of lip-service, because it's just not the sexy part of weapons' procurement.

If that was ever institutional knowledge within the LE community, it was lost somewhere along the way, and is probably gonna be re-learned. Filed under "I hope I'm wrong...but don't think I amThis type of stuff is what prompted many 1911 makers to produce an external extractor version and people like Hilton Yam to encourage development. But it turned out the external extractor can be even more problematic than the legacy design. As it stands now I think only SIG and S&W have stuck to the external design. I think Ed Brown also makes a 9mm external extractor gun but that's probably not a mass production item.

It would be interesting to see how the current crop of 1911s are working out for departments that allow them as general carry. Are the mass produced guns made on modern equipment and with some MIM parts working out okay or do they need constant tweaking of extractors, mag feed lips, etc to keep the guns operating?

Re the 2011 it sounds like LAPD and Texas Rangers have been carrying these guns for awhile. Institutionally both groups have a pretty long history with the 1911. Is the 2011 working better/as good/worse than Kimber, Colt, etc with officers?

One final thing regarding the "complicated" manual of arms. It is interesting to me that many agencies, mine included, now stress the manipulation of the selector lever on the M16 series but see the thumb safety on a handgun as something that will get officers killed. Is that really the case? As we've all heard stories of cops who died with shirt or pants pockets filled with 38 cases and officers who couldn't fire because the safety was on or the de-cock lever was engaged, I'd speculate that these have been the very rare exceptions and not the historic norm.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[fixer]

Barfing on 1911 platforms is stupid.
Equally stupid is barfing on all other platforms.

[LittleLebowski]

Born before 1980, don’t give a fuck.

[ccmdfd]

Born before 1980, don’t give a fuck.

For the win.

[1911Nut]

So what is the driver for this?
Slick marketing?
Cool kid factor?
Better qual scores?

I don't get it. You get in my opinion a better trigger, but a more complicated manual of arms due to the grip safety and thumb safety.
How does that work for the non-gun guy officer who views his service weapon as just another tool, like his radio or pen.

I have heard it repeated endless times that due to the thumb safety and grip safety on a 1911, it is difficult to learn/master and utilize the appropriate manual of arms for the pistol.

You pick up the pistol from where it is laying or from your holster. If you have a proper grip, the grip safety is activated. If it isn't, learn to grip the pistol properly, or adjust the grip safety so it activates when properly gripped.

When you pick up the pistol from where it is laying or from your holster, your trigger finger is straight alongside the pistol and your shooting hand thumb is resting on top of the thumb safety. If it isn't, see "learn to grip the pistol properly" above.

As the shooter indexes the pistol on the target, the shooting hand thumb (which is already on top of the thumb safety) applies slight pressure downward, disengaging the thumb safety. Align sights and press trigger until problem solved.

After the problem is solved, place trigger finger alongside pistol and apply slight upward pressure on the bottom of the thumb safety, engaging it.

Based on the whining I hear about the 1911, one would think that the above process is akin to performing brains surgery while playing the violin.

It took me about two minutes to figure out how to do it consistently, and I am likely as far from "naturally gifted" with a pistol as anyone reading this forum.

The world has changed a lot over the past 40 years. People used to know how to communicate in writing and in personal speech. Most of those I came in contact could spell. Many, including ladies, could change a flat tire on their car when necessary. And tell a kid "NO" when they needed to be told "NO". They even figured out rotary dial phones at relatively early ages.

But that was then, and this is now. I have to agree. Time has passed the 1911 by and it just doesn't suit the needs of today's shooters. Even those shooters who are "Poet Warriors".

But that isn't because of the design of the 1911. It's because its just too HARD!

God forbid we get into a discussion about how brutal the recoil of a 1911 is when shooting a 230 gr. caliber .45 ACP cartridge. That recoil AND A THUMBB AND GRIP SAFETY????

I feel faint just thinking about it. I will be in the parlor eating Tide pods.

[Tokarev]

Here's, just because it is from some years ago and may be new to some internet folks, Phuc Long's video on how to keep the 1911 running. Lol! Good stuff!


https://youtu.be/WP4k4tOsZD8

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[Tokarev]

And another FU classic!


https://youtu.be/X0yWXDJ919Q

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[JMS]

Re the 2011 it sounds like LAPD and Texas Rangers have been carrying these guns for awhile. Institutionally both groups have a pretty long history with the 1911. Is the 2011 working better/as good/worse than Kimber, Colt, etc with officers?

No, they're just statistical outliers, i.e., agencies that legitimately invested in GUNSMITHING capability.

Most other agencies will want the TRAPPINGS of 1911/2011 organizational ownership, without spending the $$ on the ACTUALITIES of organizational ownership.

[JMS]

Born before 1980, don’t give a fuck.

superlegit.

88213

[Patrick Taylor]

1980 would put you about the equivalent attitude of a cat.88214

[rdtompki]

Took about 9 pages to remind me of my 1911's grip safety. Who knew?

Feels good, points naturally, enough pellets for my perceived risk mitigation even in the old man's caliber.

[TGS]

The world has changed a lot over the past 40 years. People used to know how to communicate in writing and in personal speech. Most of those I came in contact could spell.

...

That recoil AND A THUMBB AND GRIP SAFETY????

The irony.

Keep booming, boomer, in all your glorious righteousness.

[revchuck38]

Keep booming, boomer, in all your glorious righteousness.

Young friggin' punks... ;)

[Trooper224]

The irony.

Keep booming, boomer, in all your glorious righteousness.

88225

[Casual Friday]

This thread smells like salty tears, musty Member's Only jackets, white velcro New Balances, and Bengay.

[1911Nut]

The irony.

Keep booming, boomer, in all your glorious righteousness.

THUMBB. That's correct, isn't it? Ambidextrous thumbb safeties.

As for booming . . . .

Poet Warrior is booming. I even agreed that he is correct. The 1911 should not be the choice for the vast majority of today's shooters.

We just differ in our opinions why that is the case.

[TGS]

This thread smells like salty tears, musty Member's Only jackets, white velcro New Balances, and Bengay.

It's quite awesome.

Shitlord of the year: Elon Musk, or John Lovell?

[revchuck38]

Shitlord of the year: Elon Musk, or John Lovell?

Yes.

[Tokarev]

No, they're just statistical outliers, i.e., agencies that legitimately invested in GUNSMITHING capability.

It is my understanding that Staccato offers free armorer and maintenence training for departments that authorize the 2011. Of course teaching someone to perform a couple safety checks and change a few springs isn't gunsmithing.

Still curious to hear what departments allowing the 2011 are doing to keep the guns up and running.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

This thread smells like salty tears, musty Member's Only jackets, white velcro New Balances, and Bengay.

Throw in a ball cap and some aviators and you're there.

[Casual Friday]

It's quite awesome.

Shitlord of the year: Elon Musk, or John Lovell?

88227

[CJK]

I have heard it repeated endless times that due to the thumb safety and grip safety on a 1911, it is difficult to learn/master and utilize the appropriate manual of arms for the pistol.

You pick up the pistol from where it is laying or from your holster. If you have a proper grip, the grip safety is activated. If it isn't, learn to grip the pistol properly, or adjust the grip safety so it activates when properly gripped.

When you pick up the pistol from where it is laying or from your holster, your trigger finger is straight alongside the pistol and your shooting hand thumb is resting on top of the thumb safety. If it isn't, see "learn to grip the pistol properly" above.

As the shooter indexes the pistol on the target, the shooting hand thumb (which is already on top of the thumb safety) applies slight pressure downward, disengaging the thumb safety. Align sights and press trigger until problem solved.

After the problem is solved, place trigger finger alongside pistol and apply slight upward pressure on the bottom of the thumb safety, engaging it.

Based on the whining I hear about the 1911, one would think that the above process is akin to performing brains surgery while playing the violin.

It took me about two minutes to figure out how to do it consistently, and I am likely as far from "naturally gifted" with a pistol as anyone reading this forum.

The world has changed a lot over the past 40 years. People used to know how to communicate in writing and in personal speech. Most of those I came in contact could spell. Many, including ladies, could change a flat tire on their car when necessary. And tell a kid "NO" when they needed to be told "NO". They even figured out rotary dial phones at relatively early ages.

But that was then, and this is now. I have to agree. Time has passed the 1911 by and it just doesn't suit the needs of today's shooters. Even those shooters who are "Poet Warriors".

But that isn't because of the design of the 1911. It's because its just too HARD!

God forbid we get into a discussion about how brutal the recoil of a 1911 is when shooting a 230 gr. caliber .45 ACP cartridge. That recoil AND A THUMBB AND GRIP SAFETY????

I feel faint just thinking about it. I will be in the parlor eating Tide pods.In today's world they teach the power stroke or the slingshot, because under stress you can't manipulate a slide latch[emoji1787], but you can manipulate a trigger, and magazine releases [emoji6].

Someone nailed it above with " It's the Indian, not the arrow "

I carried a 1911 for professionally for 27 out of 31 years. There were some issues, and I learned to handle them. Then there were some Glock issues. I liked the Glock, USP, and M&P. All good guns. In retirement I carry the 1911 most, I like them and I'm heavily invested, but then there's the M&P 2.0 with thumb safety, Glock, High Power, and revolvers and I feel equally well armed with all of them.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

[Borderland]

This thread smells like salty tears, musty Member's Only jackets, white velcro New Balances, and Bengay.

Actually I prefer slip-ons which eliminates the velcro strap. Bengay doesn't work that well. CBD cream is better. ;)


cannabidiol, is increasingly popular, thanks to its reported myriad benefits and non-intoxicating properties. But it’s no fad—even science is getting behind the plant compound. Clinical studies show CBD topicals like creams, gels and balms may relieve pain associated with osteoarthritis, nervous system damage and ongoing localized muscle aches. CBD creams can provide short-term topical relief for some. Forbes.

When you hit 70 you need a good cardiologist and plenty of fiber in your diet. Pistols are almost a secondary consideration. I know a guy who has about 20 firearms who is 74. He owns some pretty high end AR's, bolt rifles and pistols. He hasn't been to the range in two years due to health issues.

He doesn't own a 1911.

[ccmdfd]

Throw in a ball cap and some aviators and you're there.

And parachute pants

[LittleLebowski]

I have heard it repeated endless times that due to the thumb safety and grip safety on a 1911, it is difficult to learn/master and utilize the appropriate manual of arms for the pistol.

You pick up the pistol from where it is laying or from your holster. If you have a proper grip, the grip safety is activated. If it isn't, learn to grip the pistol properly, or adjust the grip safety so it activates when properly gripped.

When you pick up the pistol from where it is laying or from your holster, your trigger finger is straight alongside the pistol and your shooting hand thumb is resting on top of the thumb safety. If it isn't, see "learn to grip the pistol properly" above.

As the shooter indexes the pistol on the target, the shooting hand thumb (which is already on top of the thumb safety) applies slight pressure downward, disengaging the thumb safety. Align sights and press trigger until problem solved.

After the problem is solved, place trigger finger alongside pistol and apply slight upward pressure on the bottom of the thumb safety, engaging it.

Based on the whining I hear about the 1911, one would think that the above process is akin to performing brains surgery while playing the violin.

It took me about two minutes to figure out how to do it consistently, and I am likely as far from "naturally gifted" with a pistol as anyone reading this forum.

The world has changed a lot over the past 40 years. People used to know how to communicate in writing and in personal speech. Most of those I came in contact could spell. Many, including ladies, could change a flat tire on their car when necessary. And tell a kid "NO" when they needed to be told "NO". They even figured out rotary dial phones at relatively early ages.

But that was then, and this is now. I have to agree. Time has passed the 1911 by and it just doesn't suit the needs of today's shooters. Even those shooters who are "Poet Warriors".

But that isn't because of the design of the 1911. It's because its just too HARD!

God forbid we get into a discussion about how brutal the recoil of a 1911 is when shooting a 230 gr. caliber .45 ACP cartridge. That recoil AND A THUMBB AND GRIP SAFETY????

I feel faint just thinking about it. I will be in the parlor eating Tide pods.

Was that all tongue in cheek? I don’t know anyone that thinks shooting a 1911 is too hard.

[Borderland]

but see the thumb safety on a handgun as something that will get officers killed. Is that really the case?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Yep. It's probably happened.

But not to some boomer that goes to the range once a week and incorporates his safety into his regimen. Neither has it happened to a cop who has run a 1911 for 20 years and thinks a safety on a pistol is like a parking break on every vehicle he's ever driven. You make sure it's off before you use it.

Personally I don't like safeties on a carry and I can see the problem with training someone who has never fired a pistol to react to a deadly threat.

I'm not a pistol shooter per say but I have 5 or 6 and I've previously had a bunch that I sold. I don't compete. I just like to experience the differences in design and function. I have several HK's and several 1911's. Also some Sigs.

I can totally understand why most agencies have moved to Glocks.

[wvincent]

Still curious to hear what departments allowing the 2011 are doing to keep the guns up and running.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

It's a Staccato, so like ammo and lube? Won't need anything else.
Serious note: These are cops, who train and qual, and the random OIS. Not Tier1 face shooters kicking in doors in Gofuckurselfstan. Hell, how often were they reverting to a pistol?
How high of a round count does your average patrol cop rack up during a year?

[wvincent]

Was that all tongue in cheek? I don’t know anyone that thinks shooting a 1911 is too hard.

Umm, Warrior Poet 6 Actual?

The dude that actually lit this dumpster on fire in the first place.

[Trooper224]

And parachute pants

Nope, can't touch that.

[1911Nut]

Was that all tongue in cheek? I don’t know anyone that thinks shooting a 1911 is too hard.

As I often am prone to do, I did not clearly make my point.

I did not mean that I believed a 1911 is hard to shoot, or even that other people were claiming a 1911 is hard to shoot.

I did not even disagree with the OP that the 1911 was probably not the appropriate pistol of choice for today's shooters. We do disagree on why that may be the case.

I was trying to make the point that every time I hear someone demean the 1911 they seldom, if ever, fail to mention the fact that the pistol has a thumb safety and a grip safety as the leading causes of the pistol's shortcomings. It is almost a certainty that those two features will be mentioned as primary reasons the 1911 is unsuitable for Poet Warriors or any other shooters.

I did not even direct my comments towards a specific demographic or a specific age group. (Well maybe I did . . . . I can't recall seeing any reports of any older folks eating Tide pods or snorting condoms).

It is my opinion that learning the correct manual of arms for a 1911 is not rocket science, and any inherent problems in the design are relatively easy to overcome. It takes some effort. And generally speaking, our society is chock full of folks who can't be bothered with that effort. So they demean anything and anyone older that 30 while they giggle and record it for world-wide viewing.

I'm not entirely convinced that approach is going to work for either them or society. And as they age, they might find that life has a way of wiping smirks off one's face.

DISCLAIMER: The last sentence of this post has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with 1911 pistols, or who does or does not like them. It's just an opinion.

[Totem Polar]

Nope, can't touch that.

Stop.

Hammer fired time.

[TGS]

As I often am prone to do, I did not clearly make my point.

I did not mean that I believed a 1911 is hard to shoot, or even that other people were claiming a 1911 is hard to shoot.

I did not even disagree with the OP that the 1911 was probably not the appropriate pistol of choice for today's shooters. We do disagree on why that may be the case.

I was trying to make the point that every time I hear someone demean the 1911 they seldom, if ever, fail to mention the fact that the pistol has a thumb safety and a grip safety as the leading causes of the pistol's shortcomings. It is almost a certainty that those two features will be mentioned as primary reasons the 1911 is unsuitable for Poet Warriors or any other shooters.

I did not even direct my comments towards a specific demographic or a specific age group. (Well maybe I did . . . . I can't recall seeing any reports of any older folks eating Tide pods or snorting condoms).

It is my opinion that learning the correct manual of arms for a 1911 is not rocket science, and any inherent problems in the design are relatively easy to overcome. It takes some effort. And generally speaking, our society is chock full of folks who can't be bothered with that effort. So they demean anything and anyone older that 30 while they giggle and record it for world-wide viewing.

I'm not entirely convinced that approach is going to work for either them or society. And as they age, they might find that life has a way of wiping smirks off one's face.

DISCLAIMER: The last sentence of this post has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with 1911 pistols, or who does or does not like them. It's just an opinion.

Is your problem with John Lovell, or people under the age of 30?

[1911Nut]

Problem?

Seems like you are determined to make this personal.

Is your problem with me, or just people over the age of 50?

[Coyotesfan97]

It's a Staccato, so like ammo and lube? Won't need anything else.
Serious note: These are cops, who train and qual, and the random OIS. Not Tier1 face shooters kicking in doors in Gofuckurselfstan. Hell, how often were they reverting to a pistol?
How high of a round count does your average patrol cop rack up during a year?


I guess it depends a lot on where you’re working and how often you practiced.* My agency gave each officer 100 practice rounds per month. It was optional to shoot it. There were probably 100 guys who religiously fired their practice rounds. Because there were a lot of people not shooting theirs you could draw a lot of extra practice rounds if you wanted. If I went to the range I was generally firing 200+ rounds. If you went every week the range guys didn’t care. Then there was mandatory quarterly range training. Depending on what the training was say you fired 100-200 rounds.

So our average patrol cop probably shot 800-1000 rounds a year. If you were a meat eater and shot a lot of practice rounds minimum of 2500 rounds a year. When I was on full time SWAT we usually shot 300-500 pistol rounds a week and a like amount of rifle rounds.

If your looking at OIS a patrol Officer has a 1 in a 100 chance of being in an OIS. A K9 handler is 1 in 15. I’d like to know the stats for any unit involved in arresting violent, armed career criminals. Some of our guys had been in 6 while assigned to the Marshall TF.

*Note this is based on no ammunition shortage. It was different when they did have a lot of practice ammo. IIRC it was 100 rounds every three months unless you were on tactical.

[Jeff22]

That varies an enormous amount from state to state and agency to agency.

Some places fire a qualification course of 30-60 rounds once a year and that’s it. Some agencies shoot once a month. In my area, in-service training (including firearms) was quarterly.

The best we ever did was 600 rnds of handgun and 150 rnds with the AR-15 annually (shooting quarterly). I think our average was probably 400 rnds of handgun and 120 rnds with the rifle. When we had shotguns, it was often 5 or 10 buckshot (00 or #4) and 5 slugs and 10 birdshot on steel. Sometimes we shot at clay pigeons.

When I started in 1981 I worked for a small town that had a wide open firearms policy, the Chief carried a P-35 Browning (in condition two), three of us carried 1911 pattern pistols, and the rest had revolvers. My Combat Commander (which I still have) was reliable with 185 grn Silvertips.

[willie]

1948. I began shooting handguns and studying in the area at an early age. I seldom heard WW2 veterans say anything good about 1911's. They usually deemed them heavy and inaccurate. Bullseye shooters used them extensively. I never saw a pistol in a cop's holster. When Cooper was criticizing the 9mm, his reference was ball ammo. Available hollow point ammo was not effective. Cooper assumed that 45 hardball was effective. At the same time, he described the .38 Special as a poor self defense round.

The 1911 as a general issue weapon would be a nightmare for training officers and those who had to maintain them. I have not been without a 1911 for over 50 years. I love mine but do not recommend them to new shooters or even the casual shooter. Enthusiasts buy what they like. Good. I still don't understand why people argue about 1911's. I know a great deal about the platform and have observed that many blowing their horn on this subject are full of shit regardless of the side they choose.

Years ago I owned a 38 Super Colt lightweight Commander fitted with a Bar Sto barrel. The pistol had S&W K-38 sights, a 4lb trigger, lowered ejection port, and properly tensioned extractor. Like a dummy I carried it with hardball ammo. I thought I had cut a big hog in the ass. The fact that I could hit gallon jugs at a 100 yards made me think I was I was capable. Really I wasn't.

[revchuck38]

Stop.

Hammer fired time.

Don't hurt him.

[Hambo]

Is your problem with John Lovell, or people under the age of 30?


Is your problem with me, or just people over the age of 50?

Lovell had his way with you two.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Opix8LDwA

[Joe in PNG]

At this point in my life, I've got a couple of K frames, a 9mm 1911, a HiPower, a DAO 92, a Shield, and a Glock 19.

I'm on all the sides. Except .45acp. To heck with those guys!

[Borderland]

At this point in my life, I've got a couple of K frames, a 9mm 1911, a HiPower, a DAO 92, a Shield, and a Glock 19.

I'm on all the sides. Except .45acp. To heck with those guys!

Alice in Wonderland. ;)

[revchuck38]

At this point in my life, I've got a couple of K frames, a 9mm 1911, a HiPower, a DAO 92, a Shield, and a Glock 19.

I'm on all the sides. Except .45acp. To heck with those guys!

I could probably be happy with .38 Special and 9x19 exclusively, but I've spent the last 30+ years accumulating .357 Mag, .41 Mag, .44 Special and Mag, and .45 ACP brass. If I sold those guns, I'd have to figure out what to do with the brass and ammo I have for them.

[TGS]

Problem?

Seems like you are determined to make this personal.

Is your problem with me, or just people over the age of 50?

Well, you just keep writing dumb shit. Bitching about people under 30 and their lack of life experience when the subject of the OP that got you all wound up is a 39 y/o 5-tour combat vet.

It's playing right into why Lovell made this video: rampant old people going off the handle on dumb stuff.

Seeing the meltdown among the AARP crowd for this video is pretty amazing. I'm just here to enjoy the ironic shit posting, like people getting all fired up over those young whippersnappers who can't spell, and conduct the same errors in their own diatribes.


Lovell had his way with you two.

Yeah, well...your mom has cooties. So there.

*flings booger at you*

[Casual Friday]

It's okay to like guns that aren't as good as other ones. I like AKs. I got my first one in 1998 when I was 18. It was way cheaper than any AR that I could find during that time period(Clinton ban). I still like AKs. I still own AKs. I still shoot AKs sometimes. I'll probably never not own an AK or three. But the AR is a better rifle. It's better at everything except being reliable with 7.62x39. There's absolutely no practical reason to buy an AK in 2022 unless you just want one, and that's okay. A bare bones AK of acceptable quality is as much or more than most mid tier ARs.

Now, let's try this with different words that make the same point.

It's okay to like guns that aren't as good as other ones. I like 1911s. I got my first one in 1958 when I was 18. It was way cheaper than any other semi automatic that I could find during that time period(Post WWII). I still like 1911s. I still own 1911s. I still shoot 1911s sometimes. I'll probably never not own a 1911 or three. But the (insert some other modern pistol here) is a better handgun. It's better at everything except nostalgia and looking cool at Coach Corral during Senior Tuesdays. There's absolutely no practical reason to buy an 1911 in 2022 unless you just want one, and that's okay. A bare bones 1911 of acceptable quality is as much or more than my last hip surgery.

[Leroy Suggs]

TGS maybe youre a boomerphobic:D

[noguns]

Why do I have a feeling there will be a war poet 1911 coming soon? After watching his video I have a sudden urge to buy another 1911 after regrettably selling a colt Wiley clapp GM and a SA loaded that ran well.

[TGS]

TGS maybe youre a boomerphobic:D

It's quite literally the reason I don't visit gun shops anymore. I just got that tired of walking into an LGS and having some AARP member want to engage with me about his 1911 and give life advice over my choice of a commie poodle-shooter.

I have a diagnosed allergy to boomerism.


Why do I have a feeling there will be a war poet 1911 coming soon? After watching his video I have a sudden urge to buy another 1911 after regrettably selling a colt Wiley clapp GM and a SA loaded that ran well.

When you do, I have a stack of mags that someone lent to me to help get you restarted ;)

[TGS]

At this point in my life, I've got a couple of K frames, a 9mm 1911, a HiPower, a DAO 92, a Shield, and a Glock 19.

I'm on all the sides. Except .45acp. To heck with those guys!

Reeducate yourself, youngster:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f55_mFAOvRA&t=28s

[45dotACP]

It's quite literally the reason I don't visit gun shops anymore. I just got that tired of walking into an LGS and having some AARP member want to engage with me about his 1911 and give life advice over my choice of a commie poodle-shooter.

I have a diagnosed allergy to boomerism.



When you do, I have a stack of mags that someone lent to me to help get you restarted ;)I am weirdly in this place where I have more 9mm 1911s than 45 1911s and so i get lectures both from boomers and warrior poets.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

It took me about two minutes to figure out how to do it consistently, and I am likely as far from "naturally gifted" with a pistol as anyone reading this forum.


It took you about two minutes to figure out how to do it under zero stress in an extremely static environment. Do you think you'd be equally consistent when someone was grappling you, you were knocked on your ass, you were drawing with a compromised grip due to those factors, fatigue, injury, etc?

See, the thing is every 1911 owner thinks they are 100% at those simple tasks because they have that two minute mastery and are sure it'll translate into everything else. Yet in open enrollment classes, local IDPA matches, and the occasional real world event I see people proven wrong. "Its a training issue" will be the inevitable reply. Sure, everything is a training issue. How much ECQC training are you doing? How much fighting injured training are you doing? How much prone because you got your bell rung and you aren't braining exactly like you were before you got ambushed by some thug training are you doing? Because that's when simple shit isn't simple shit any longer and the stakes are real high. The training commitment to be 100% is much more involved than many assume, including anyone who thinks they mastered it in 2 minutes.

The 1911 is an easy gun to shoot. It has the romance appeal. I'll personally never carry anything with a grip safety, and would only do a manual safety if no other options existed. You do you, but the '2 minutes to consistency' is self delusion.

[Ichiban]

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

[CHNEAL]

Fun thread to read.

Owned a few 1911 over the years I was a young man. The legend and romance were just too much for me and thought it was the only pistol in the world worth shooting.Then I saw Lethal Weapon and the 16 on tap was just too much for me to take! The 92 became a USP which then became a HK45 while I tried to recapture my macho at 30 then the Glock 19 took over and I haven't looked back in 20+ years.
Is 1965 vintage?

[Casual Friday]

Back in 2010 I took a pistol class at The Marksman in Puyallup from a guy that was a 15 year vet of the Tacoma PD. He had a super fancy 1911 that he spent a lot of money on and was quite fond of. Another guy in the class had a 1911 that he was bragging about during the classroom portion. Once we hit the range, the instructor demo'd the first drill. The student with the 1911 was next to me and his gun shit the bed faster than Amber Heard. His gun continued to have problems through the whole day and he remarked that it had never done that before and had several thousands of rounds through it. The word flawless might have been floated around. I think the guy bought into the romanticized mystique of the 1911 and never bothered to shoot it or run it hard prior to the class.

[rcbusmc24]

So strong is this propensity of mankind, to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions, and excite their most violent conflicts. - James Madison

The quote may be about politics but it seemed appropriate here as well.....

[gato naranja]

I could probably be happy with .38 Special and 9x19 exclusively, but I've spent the last 30+ years accumulating .357 Mag, .41 Mag, .44 Special and Mag, and .45 ACP brass. If I sold those guns, I'd have to figure out what to do with the brass and ammo I have for them.

After I purged the safes and shelves of any handgun not a 9x19 or .38/.357 - with the exception of .22LR - I felt remorse very seldom, and never enough to backslide. Interestingly, I was able to sell and/or swap almost all the miscellaneous ammo or components for as much as (or sometimes more than) what I paid. That was a pleasant and unexpected outcome.

The firearms themselves, well, let's just say that I didn't do quite as well with those.


Lovell had his way with you two.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Opix8LDwA

!!!

If anyone tells me in the Year of Our Lord 2022 that 1911's are either:

1. Still the penultimate combat handgun
2. Now totally worthless for self defense

I suddenly feel a bit better about my life simply because I don't really care, nor do I have to. To be fair - and not somehow discriminate on the basis of age - equivalent assertions about SIG P320's produce the same effect on me.

[Joe S]

I get so tired of these young whippersnappers, tide pod eating, millennials disrespecting the greatest side arm invented by man. :D

Who mentioned the Hi-Power?

[Trooper224]

A while back I walked away from social media, including this place. What should be the greatest information sharing tool in the history of mankind is really it's most toxic creation. It seems to bring out the worst in people, including myself. It's a time suck I decided I didn't need. I left this place because, every time I logged on, I found less and less about pistolcraft and more and more bitching over politics, older and younger generations, the state of the world, COVID and what have you. In short: just a bitchfest.

Fast forward to now. I log back on because I have a couple of things to share some may find interesting. What do I find? Not much has changed. Here we have a thread now nearly 150 posts long sparked by a clickbait video by some YouTuber that should hardly be taken seriously. Yet, the level of butt hurt and moral virtue signaling rivals anything produced by G4 and Frosk. That's on both sides of the issue folks. What should largely be taken with a tongue firmly in cheek has become a source of insults over everything from equipment choices to generational placement.

So, it appears the bitching hasn't stopped and none of the kiddies care who has the conch. I had determined social media was a time suck I didn't need. Thank you for showing me my initial decision was correct.

[Sawyer]

The guy has a YouTube channel called “Warrior Poet.” He has to get clicks to stay relevant, he’s effectively a carnival barker. Good for him, making money doing YouTube is safer and in someways probably a better life than many of us have chosen to lead. I’ve spent the better part of 20+ years bouncing back and forth between a Glock 17 and 1911 (quality 1911, not a Kimber) with the odd Sig or HK thrown in. If he’s slower and less accurate doing anything with a 1911…..it’s operator error. A quality 1911 is faster and more accurate then the vast majority of modern service pistols out there. It just is. The issue with them is they are expensive, heavy, have a lower capacity, and fire a more expensive cartridge. That’s it. The Stacatto cures a few of those issues but not all.

Weight is a big concern as most of us age with back issues after a life spent carrying around all kinds of gear. Cost is an issue because money is a resource to be used wisely. The .45 does seem unnecessary with modern 9mm. Is capacity an issue? We can all point to the very rare case where someone actually needed more than 11 rounds, but their diet, alcohol consumption, lack of using a seatbelt, and driving style are far far far more likely to do them in.

The reality is we argue over guns to have something to talk about, it’s all really just noise. In almost all gunfights, it doesn’t really matter what gun you have. People will argue over a Glock vs M&P or a Walther vs HK, or a Sig P226 vs P320. Or everything vs the 1911. Watch a bunch of shooting videos. It’s more often than not an incredibly quick oh crap moment with wildly fired rounds at close range. Wether or not the gun will shoot a 1 inch group at 25 yards or have a 79 round magazine just doesn’t seem to matter much. As long as the gun will go bang when the trigger is pulled, it really doesn’t matter what gun it is. If that’s a Wilson CQB, a Glock 17, a S&W M&P, or whatever in 9mm or above it just doesn’t matter. Your holster and draw speed is way more important than which gun it is. Thing is though that doesn’t leave nearly as much to talk about that people will watch videos about…..so the poet has to come up with something and why not this? We’re all talking about it after watching the video……he succeeded in his objective. Shoot what you shoot, enjoy what you enjoy…skip all the noise…..and work on those draw strokes and safe handling.

[JodyH]

A while back I walked away from social media, including this place. What should be the greatest information sharing tool in the history of mankind is really it's most toxic creation. It seems to bring out the worst in people, including myself. It's a time suck I decided I didn't need. I left this place because, every time I logged on, I found less and less about pistolcraft and more and more bitching over politics, older and younger generations, the state of the world, COVID and what have you. In short: just a bitchfest.

A-fuckin-men
Did the exact same thing for the exact same reasons.

[cpd2110]

It took you about two minutes to figure out how to do it under zero stress in an extremely static environment. Do you think you'd be equally consistent when someone was grappling you, you were knocked on your ass, you were drawing with a compromised grip due to those factors, fatigue, injury, etc?

See, the thing is every 1911 owner thinks they are 100% at those simple tasks because they have that two minute mastery and are sure it'll translate into everything else. Yet in open enrollment classes, local IDPA matches, and the occasional real world event I see people proven wrong. "Its a training issue" will be the inevitable reply. Sure, everything is a training issue. How much ECQC training are you doing? How much fighting injured training are you doing? How much prone because you got your bell rung and you aren't braining exactly like you were before you got ambushed by some thug training are you doing? Because that's when simple shit isn't simple shit any longer and the stakes are real high. The training commitment to be 100% is much more involved than many assume, including anyone who thinks they mastered it in 2 minutes.

The 1911 is an easy gun to shoot. It has the romance appeal. I'll personally never carry anything with a grip safety, and would only do a manual safety if no other options existed. You do you, but the '2 minutes to consistency' is self delusion.

When I ran our range an officer showed up to qualify his new blaster for off duty carry. I checked the gun, an officer sized Kimber, and it passed the inspection. I then told the officer this wasn’t a good idea for carry, that he would likely forget to hit the thumb safety under stress. This is because we carry a Glocks. He told me he would be fine. On the very first draw/shot of the qual guess what happened, he forget to hit the thumb safety. This happened two more times and I told him we were done. I would not put my name on the record that he was qualified. He spent about 2 minutes mastering it but under the non-stress of a state qual he failed. I have a custom 1911, love it, she is a safe queen mostly and take her to the range to show her off. But I would never carry it for work.

[ccmdfd]

The guy has a YouTube channel called “Warrior Poet.” He has to get clicks to stay relevant, he’s effectively a carnival barker. Good for him, making money doing YouTube is safer and in someways probably a better life than many of us have chosen to lead.

You know I've always known that YouTubers make some money, but had no idea how much. This thread made me decide to research it.

In 2021 the top YouTube poster earned over 50 million dollars from it. The number 10 guy on the list made 16 million dollars off of it.

Obviously there are probably Millions who make very little at all. But it was staggering to me to imagine there was that much money floating around with this.

[JodyH]

You know I've always known that YouTubers make some money, but had no idea how much. This thread made me decide to research it.

In 2021 the top YouTube poster earned over 50 million dollars from it. The number 10 guy on the list made 16 million dollars off of it.

Obviously there are probably Millions who make very little at all. But it was staggering to me to imagine there was that much money floating around with this.

If you really want to be surprised go research OnlyFans paychecks.

[Totem Polar]

You know I've always known that YouTubers make some money, but had no idea how much. This thread made me decide to research it.

In 2021 the top YouTube poster earned over 50 million dollars from it. The number 10 guy on the list made 16 million dollars off of it.

Obviously there are probably Millions who make very little at all. But it was staggering to me to imagine there was that much money floating around with this.

I’m friends with a guy who did one of the early comedic nonsense viral videos on the ‘tube. At one point, about 6 years ago, he was regularly making 400K+ a year off of his videos, and nobody here has ever heard of the guy. He’s my age, retired for the past several years, and his daughter recently graduated from the private place I teach at (50k/year), if that tells us anything.

[ccmdfd]

I’m friends with a guy who did one of the early comedic nonsense viral videos on the ‘tube. At one point, about 6 years ago, he was regularly making 400K+ a year off of his videos, and nobody here has ever heard of the guy. He’s my age, retired for the past several years, and his daughter recently graduated from the private place I teach at (50k/year), if that tells us anything.


Dayummm!

[TGS]

You know I've always known that YouTubers make some money, but had no idea how much. This thread made me decide to research it.

In 2021 the top YouTube poster earned over 50 million dollars from it. The number 10 guy on the list made 16 million dollars off of it.

Obviously there are probably Millions who make very little at all. But it was staggering to me to imagine there was that much money floating around with this.

Yeah man, it's pretty surprising.

There's gamers that just stream themselves playing. I remember when one of the first ones quit his day job just to stream, because he figured getting paid $70k/year to play games was better than getting paid $70k/year to work.

Today the popular ones are making $1-2m/year between youtube ad revenue and fan subscriptions. Sort of like movie stars or bands, they get signed for promotional deals, sponsors, some get into drugs and lose it all, others end up getting into crazy affairs with their groupies and lose their marriages, etc.

[BehindBlueI's]

A while back I walked away from social media, including this place. What should be the greatest information sharing tool in the history of mankind is really it's most toxic creation. It seems to bring out the worst in people, including myself. It's a time suck I decided I didn't need. I left this place because, every time I logged on, I found less and less about pistolcraft and more and more bitching over politics, older and younger generations, the state of the world, COVID and what have you. In short: just a bitchfest.

Fast forward to now. I log back on because I have a couple of things to share some may find interesting. What do I find? Not much has changed. Here we have a thread now nearly 150 posts long sparked by a clickbait video by some YouTuber that should hardly be taken seriously. Yet, the level of butt hurt and moral virtue signaling rivals anything produced by G4 and Frosk. That's on both sides of the issue folks. What should largely be taken with a tongue firmly in cheek has become a source of insults over everything from equipment choices to generational placement.

So, it appears the bitching hasn't stopped and none of the kiddies care who has the conch. I had determined social media was a time suck I didn't need. Thank you for showing me my initial decision was correct.

I think most people are just dicking around and, perhaps with a few exceptions, nobody is really upset. That said, I took a break recently and upon my return have been reading many fewer threads.If something is in a technical section and isn't up to PF standards, hit the report button. All the mods are pretty busy at the moment with non-PF things so without people reporting there's a solid chance things remain unseen.

Yes, the constant injection of political bickering is annoying, which is why we attempted to segregate it into one section. If you don't want political content, it should be fairly easy to avoid it now. If it creeps out, again just hit report.

People bitch. It's what they do. Online or in real life, any conversation will eventually have some bitching component in it. Or even bitching about bitching.

[Clusterfrack]

Anyone born before 1980 is probably super fond of the 1911. Anyone born after probably not so much.

I was born before 1980, and I am not fond of the 1911.

[1911Nut]

It took you about two minutes to figure out how to do it under zero stress in an extremely static environment. Do you think you'd be equally consistent when someone was grappling you, you were knocked on your ass, you were drawing with a compromised grip due to those factors, fatigue, injury, etc?

See, the thing is every 1911 owner thinks they are 100% at those simple tasks because they have that two minute mastery and are sure it'll translate into everything else. Yet in open enrollment classes, local IDPA matches, and the occasional real world event I see people proven wrong. "Its a training issue" will be the inevitable reply. Sure, everything is a training issue. How much ECQC training are you doing? How much fighting injured training are you doing? How much prone because you got your bell rung and you aren't braining exactly like you were before you got ambushed by some thug training are you doing? Because that's when simple shit isn't simple shit any longer and the stakes are real high. The training commitment to be 100% is much more involved than many assume, including anyone who thinks they mastered it in 2 minutes.

The 1911 is an easy gun to shoot. It has the romance appeal. I'll personally never carry anything with a grip safety, and would only do a manual safety if no other options existed. You do you, but the '2 minutes to consistency' is self delusion.

I stand corrected and will never, ever weigh in on the 1911 again or even mildly insinuate that feel like I can manipulate one when I am in the middle of a fight or injured.

[Casual Friday]

Social media breaks are good. Last July I stepped away from internet surfing except business and family matters, including PF, and I didn't log back in until like a month ago. During that time, I read more books than I typically would in the same time frame, and I had no desire to upgrade or buy any new firearms related gear. I didn't even know eform 4s were happening until my nephew told me like a month after it was announced.

[BehindBlueI's]

Locked at OP's request.

[LittleLebowski]

As I often am prone to do, I did not clearly make my point.

I did not mean that I believed a 1911 is hard to shoot, or even that other people were claiming a 1911 is hard to shoot.

I did not even disagree with the OP that the 1911 was probably not the appropriate pistol of choice for today's shooters. We do disagree on why that may be the case.

I was trying to make the point that every time I hear someone demean the 1911 they seldom, if ever, fail to mention the fact that the pistol has a thumb safety and a grip safety as the leading causes of the pistol's shortcomings. It is almost a certainty that those two features will be mentioned as primary reasons the 1911 is unsuitable for Poet Warriors or any other shooters.

I did not even direct my comments towards a specific demographic or a specific age group. (Well maybe I did . . . . I can't recall seeing any reports of any older folks eating Tide pods or snorting condoms).

It is my opinion that learning the correct manual of arms for a 1911 is not rocket science, and any inherent problems in the design are relatively easy to overcome. It takes some effort. And generally speaking, our society is chock full of folks who can't be bothered with that effort. So they demean anything and anyone older that 30 while they giggle and record it for world-wide viewing.

I'm not entirely convinced that approach is going to work for either them or society. And as they age, they might find that life has a way of wiping smirks off one's face.

DISCLAIMER: The last sentence of this post has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with 1911 pistols, or who does or does not like them. It's just an opinion.

I remember ToddG telling a few of us at dinner how the grip and thumb safeties along with being hammer fired made the 1911 perfect for AIWB. I never found the manual of arms for a 1911 difficult, I just don’t like the cost, capacity, and weight.