is there a "proper" distance for zeroing a red dot.

[CSW]

I'm slowly being sucked into the dot life due to my aging eyes. My first entry with a dot is a Burris FF3 mounted atop a Beretta 92x RDO.

The dot mount/setup is absolutely too high, does not allow for co-witness of sights, and is so tall that it will not allow for suppressor height sight.
This setup worked at the range, but I would not consider it for any other use, and therefor removed it, and went back to the Wilson sights on the pistol.

I had zero'd the dot at 20 yards, and it produced good groups from a rest to almost 50, while messing with it at the range. The the far distance, it would do about 2-3" from a rest.
Closer than 20 yards, it'll produce extremely tight groups, in to 5 yards.

I'm intrigued by the idea of a dot on a pistol, and particularly the Trijicon RMR, the RM04, dual illumination. The reason being no batteries.

So my long winded question to all of you users of the dots:

What is the best/practical/general distance for dot zero?
Is far better than near?
Does dot size dictate distance?

Thanks in advance for your experiences.

Chris~

[GJM]

I zero my red dot pistols at 25 yards. That requires a slight offset shooting targets like a one inch square at 7 yards and in. I hold on the top of the one inch square and do that subconsciously because of my reps with a dot.

If 25 yards isn't available or feasible for you, a friend zeroes at 13 yards and says that is very close to a 25 yard zero. At 25, I see fine windage errors that might not be obvious closer.

[rawkguitarist]

Scott Jedlinski advocates a tight 1 inch square zero at 10 yards with a confirmation at 25. It’s got to be offhand to line up your vision through the lens and the target. He says bench resting can skew the results since you can’t perfectly line it all up on the same plane.

He’s the top RDO instructor in the US. I’ve deferred to his instruction on this and I’ve had great results. He also talks about it on my podcast episode 47.

Welcome to the red dot game. It changed my life (vision issues).

[CSW]

Thanks for replies so far.

Does bullet weight and speed effect zero?
For instance, 115 9mm VS 124 vs 147?

The reason for all of this is that I'm planning on sending a 1911 9mm off for milling in the future.
It shoots very well and consistently with my carry 147 Gold dot G2.
Obviously, I would zero it with that ammo.

[1Rangemaster]

My experience has been to use a B8 bull with a circular white paster starting @5yds just to see if there’s any wide deviation (3 rounds). I’ll hold at the top of the paster and accept rounds an inch or two low(offset). If there’s adjustment, move to 10 and check. Move to 15, check(3 rounds calling each)-dimming the dot can help here.
Confirm at 25 on a 5 inch bull(acceptable for me). I also confirm on a “C zone” IPSC steel silhouette at 50 yards, standing for all. I just want the hits at 50.
I’ve pinged the steel at 50 with a Holosun 6 moa dot, a Holosun circle and the 3.5 moa dot on an ACRO. For me, the dot size is not a big deal.
Bullet weight does make a difference in impact, but in a “practical” defensive context, not sure.
The above zeros with 147 and 135+P jhp.

[GJM]

Scott Jedlinski advocates a tight 1 inch square zero at 10 yards with a confirmation at 25. It’s got to be offhand to line up your vision through the lens and the target. He says bench resting can skew the results since you can’t perfectly line it all up on the same plane.

He’s the top RDO instructor in the US. I’ve deferred to his instruction on this and I’ve had great results. He also talks about it on my podcast episode 47.

Welcome to the red dot game. It changed my life (vision issues).

Are you familiar with Max Michel, JJ Racaza, and Ben Stoeger?

[rawkguitarist]

Are you familiar with Max Michel, JJ Racaza, and Ben Stoeger?

Of course I am. I swear by Ben Stoeger’s dry fire book. I am simply conveying what has worked for me and where I learned it. Let’s have a conversation about it without condescension.

[GJM]

Of course I am. I swear by Ben Stoeger’s dry fire book. I am simply conveying what has worked for me and where I learned it. Let’s have a conversation about it without condescension.

Red dot shooting is no longer a specific niche -- it has become mainstream. With all the red dot activity, I would be hard pressed to call anyone "the top red dot instructor in the US," but with that said, you have people like Max Michel, Hwansik Kim, Steoger and JJ putting out red dot content weekly or even daily.

[rawkguitarist]

Red dot shooting is no longer a specific niche -- it has become mainstream. With all the red dot activity, I would be hard pressed to call anyone "the top red dot instructor in the US," but with that said, you have people like Max Michel, Hwansik Kim, Steoger and JJ putting out red dot content weekly or even daily.

Buddy, excellent point. That’s some hyperbole and absolute on my part. I try to avoid making statements like that. Really I should have stated he’s one of the most sought instructors these days.

[Gadfly]

The Trijicon RMR sight in targets I found on line show 10 yards... I don't know if that is a standard. Target stating the clicks are1 MOA adjustment.

This is how we are sighting in agents on the new issued RMR. We start at 10y, then confirm farther back doing a "walk back drill" (25, 50,75,100) on steel out to 100y and scoring hits.

[TCinVA]

What is the best/practical/general distance for dot zero?


You will get many answers. I prefer 25 yards. The problem is that a lot of people can't shoot accurately enough and their equipment isn't accurate enough to get a solid zero at 25. 10 yards is a lot more doable for many so that is often given as a practice. A 10 yard zero where you shoot a very tight group and get a good zero is better than an attempt at 25 where you get lost in the turrets chasing marksmanship and/or equipment problems.

When I'm working with a new optic on a new gun I'll shoot the sights, then move the optic to start out sitting on top of the front sight post at 10. Then I'll refine that at 25. (Dots are smaller than irons and so need to be zeroed with a little more refinement) The end result is that I can hit squirrels in the vitals at 60+ yards with the pistol when I'm done...assuming I do my part. I do have to factor a little bit of offset at very close ranges (5 yards and in) to hit very precise targets, but that's more about the height of the optic itself than anything else. And that will be a little bit different on every setup.

If you struggle at 25, get it dialed in at 10 and then test it at 25. It will probably be fine.

Don't forget to consider your bullet weight. If you zero with 115 grain 9mm ball, you may find that 147 grain duty ammo shoots very differently, especially at extended distance. And vice versa. Generally in my guns I've not found that 115 grain 9mm ball shoots to a different point of aim than 124 grain HST +P, or at least not to a point of aim that's different enough where I can notice a problem.



Is far better than near?


Generally, yes. A 5 yard zero might really suck if you are trying to hit something at extended distance because there's still some offset to worry about with most slide-mounted optic setups. How often is that a practical consideration? Rarely outside of the range environment or hunting. Handguns aren't shooting the same sorts of ballistic arcs as rifles and so their sights are set up differently. Even so, if you zero where that little bit of mechanical offset is a factor it can bite you pretty bad back at 25 and beyond.

If you can shoot at extended distances (50 or 100 yards) by all means do so and see what your zero does out at those ranges. You'll probably be able to keep rounds on a typical target silhouette out at those distances with a 10 yard zero. I've seen some gun/optic combos where a 10 yard zero was way the hell off at extended distances, but relatively few and I suspect there was some user error mixed in there as well.

EDIT - This is true of iron sights as well...different sight setups often have different implications on how you hold the sights that are invisible on typical targets but show up when you are chasing 10 rings at 25 or 1" squares at 5 yards. Etc.



Does dot size dictate distance?


I've never seen it do so.

[Darth_Uno]

10 yards is a lot more doable for many so that is often given as a practice. A 10 yard zero where you shoot a very tight group and get a good zero is better than an attempt at 25 where you get lost in the turrets chasing marksmanship and/or equipment problems.

If you struggle at 25, get it dialed in at 10 and then test it at 25. It will probably be fine.


That's what I do. I'm definitely in the bottom half of PF'ers skill-wise. I dial all mine in at 10 yds, which is also the distance across my living room and kitchen and about the furthest I'm likely to have an SD situation. I'd rather dial it in at a fairly short distance and know it's good, than go for 25 and always suspect it might still be a hair off.

[CSW]

You will get many answers. I prefer 25 yards. The problem is that a lot of people can't shoot accurately enough and their equipment isn't accurate enough to get a solid zero at 25. 10 yards is a lot more doable for many so that is often given as a practice. A 10 yard zero where you shoot a very tight group and get a good zero is better than an attempt at 25 where you get lost in the turrets chasing marksmanship and/or equipment problems.

When I'm working with a new optic on a new gun I'll shoot the sights, then move the optic to start out sitting on top of the front sight post at 10. Then I'll refine that at 25. (Dots are smaller than irons and so need to be zeroed with a little more refinement) The end result is that I can hit squirrels in the vitals at 60+ yards with the pistol when I'm done...assuming I do my part. I do have to factor a little bit of offset at very close ranges (5 yards and in) to hit very precise targets, but that's more about the height of the optic itself than anything else. And that will be a little bit different on every setup.

If you struggle at 25, get it dialed in at 10 and then test it at 25. It will probably be fine.

Don't forget to consider your bullet weight. If you zero with 115 grain 9mm ball, you may find that 147 grain duty ammo shoots very differently, especially at extended distance. And vice versa. Generally in my guns I've not found that 115 grain 9mm ball shoots to a different point of aim than 124 grain HST +P, or at least not to a point of aim that's different enough where I can notice a problem.



Generally, yes. A 5 yard zero might really suck if you are trying to hit something at extended distance because there's still some offset to worry about with most slide-mounted optic setups. How often is that a practical consideration? Rarely outside of the range environment or hunting. Handguns aren't shooting the same sorts of ballistic arcs as rifles and so their sights are set up differently. Even so, if you zero where that little bit of mechanical offset is a factor it can bite you pretty bad back at 25 and beyond.

If you can shoot at extended distances (50 or 100 yards) by all means do so and see what your zero does out at those ranges. You'll probably be able to keep rounds on a typical target silhouette out at those distances with a 10 yard zero. I've seen some gun/optic combos where a 10 yard zero was way the hell off at extended distances, but relatively few and I suspect there was some user error mixed in there as well.

EDIT - This is true of iron sights as well...different sight setups often have different implications on how you hold the sights that are invisible on typical targets but show up when you are chasing 10 rings at 25 or 1" squares at 5 yards. Etc.



I've never seen it do so.
Thanks for this.

[RJ]

You will get many answers...



Great post.


That's what I do. I'm definitely in the bottom half of PF'ers skill-wise. I dial all mine in at 10 yds, which is also the distance across
my living room and kitchen and about the furthest I'm likely to have an SD situation. I'd rather dial it in at a fairly short distance and know it's good, than go for 25 and always suspect it might still be a hair off.

Same here. I start at 10 with three round groups, standing two hand unsupported, then confirm at 25 with 10 rounds on a B-8 for score. I'll also evaluate my group "center" shooting The Test (10 rounds x 10 yards in 10 seconds) which I do fairly frequently as a "where am I today cold" metric. If I start to suck on any given day, it's normally not the gun.

[YVK]

I prefer 25 yards, using upper A of USPSA target.
As discussed previously on several occasions, the size of groups and POA/POI relationships at close distances are pretty tight, especially with competition guns. Longer distance zero gives me a feedback that's easier to read.
I usually shoot three or so rounds a 7, three to five at 12-15 to bring it into the vicinity of a 2 inch circle, and all fine tuning happens at 25.

[backtrail540]

Scott Jedlinski advocates a tight 1 inch square zero at 10 yards with a confirmation at 25. It’s got to be offhand to line up your vision through the lens and the target. He says bench resting can skew the results since you can’t perfectly line it all up on the same plane.

He’s the top RDO instructor in the US. I’ve deferred to his instruction on this and I’ve had great results. He also talks about it on my podcast episode 47.

Welcome to the red dot game. It changed my life (vision issues).

I've used this method for my last few dot guns and have had good results out to 50 yards, within my skill level.

[GJM]

Buddy, excellent point. That’s some hyperbole and absolute on my part. I try to avoid making statements like that. Really I should have stated he’s one of the most sought instructors these days.

Copy. That is a great way to describe him, that reflects his popularity as well as all the focus on red dot shooting and training at a high level by the world’s leading competitive shooters.

[rawkguitarist]

I've used this method for my last few dot guns and have had good results out to 50 yards, within my skill level.

Yup, the zero i get is well within my shooting ability. I never really shoot past 25 with pistol and my groups aren’t real tight. But consistent to tell my zero is fine and the rest is me.

[eb07]

I zeroed my optic based upon my carry ammo and my barrel size

10 yd gave me the best arc from 0-100.

I suggest you go to one of the online ballistics programs and punch in all of your information and look at what zeros best for you for the distances that you want to shoot.

[G19Fan]

I zero at 25 for all handguns.

Personally I find minimal difference between 115 and 147 at 25 yards.


Peanut butter and chocolate = Gun 1 on the targets

Peanut butter (my edc) = Gun 2 on the targets

All groups shot at 25 yards. With bag and gloves in 30 or so degree weather

https://imgur.com/a/zzIxlJS

The black shoot n see was shot with my edc with rounds from the case of 124 grain hst it is zeroed for. You can clearly see there is a poa/poi difference vs the new box of 124 grain hst

Below as shot offhand @ 25 yards last week (no gloves) . 6 rounds of 124 grain hst from my carry gun. Ammo from the case it is zeroed for

https://imgur.com/a/kxNiYTm

[DpdG]

The Sig Academy’s answer in their Pistol Optics Instructor program (built around teaching rank and file cops/soldiers) is 15y in the black of a B8, which is probably just as much on the merit of the zero as the anticipated skill of the students the new instructors will be teaching. Allegedly a 15y zero will generally converge around 35y (although strelok says more like 50y with PMC 115gr I get in bulk), which is pretty workable for most pistol problems. I tend to use this, but at tighter accuracy standard than the B8 black, with good result for USPSA and 2/3G stuff that usually tops out difficulty-wise with 4” steel at about 40y.

Ultimately I suspect it’s like rifle zeros- everyone has preferences and some zeros have certain strengths or weaknesses. I tend towards a 50y zero on rifle figuring that gets me about +/- 2” within 250y, and a 15y pistol zero puts me about +/- 1” to about 60y, so I’m ok with those.

[dcf1981]

I make gross adjustments at 10 yards to get a rough zero and then refine/confirm at 25 freestyle/unsupported. It seems to be the most expedient way I’ve found. The zero is a never ending process to me though and I will make adjustments whenever I see a tight group not in the X. I’m pretty consistent in shooting high 90’s on a B8 at 25 yards and if a group tends to be centered in one particular area I will make necessary adjustments even if I’m not intending to zero that session. Most people you encounter at the range (not counting forum members) are not able to shoot accurately enough to zero at 25 yards and probably should just do what they’re capable of.

[GJM]

For simplicity, I use a 25 yard zero with red dot pistols, red dot PCCs, and red dot shotguns. With some variation based on mechanical offset of the optic, it puts me on at 25, a bit high at 50, on at 75, and a bit low at 100. 5.56 carbines get a 50/220 zero and most all other center fire rifles on at 200.

PS: using the Wheeler laser, after mounting an optic, I am generally within an inch or so at 25 yards with the pistols.

[DaBigBR]

I was originally a 25 yard bench rest zeroer but switched to 10 yards (with confirmation of sorts at 25) after attending a Modern Samurai Project class and seeing how quickly you can work up a zero.

It is important to consider shooter ability in selecting a zeroing distance as well. A lot of shooters just don't have the ability to shoot with sufficient precision at 25 yards and end up chasing holes everywhere. I've also seen several "flinchers" end up with a gun zeroed for their poor trigger control, so that's something to watch out for.

Too many guys try to become Carlos Hathglock when they put a red dot on a pistol and spend an absolute ton of time dicking with fine-tuning the zero when, in reality, a lot of it is probably shooter error. The overwhelmingly vast majority of shooters will get a better zero from a red dot at 10 yards than from any set of fixed irons at any distance. It's important to not let perfect be the enemy of good.

[Artemas2]

I am a fan of 10 yards and maybe a minor adjustment at 25 if needed. It covers all my gaming needs and seems to be a grounded CCW distance. I started using it partly out of convenience and simplicity, and partly because the benefit of a true 25 is lost on me. On close range stuff I have minimal to no hold over and I can hold the Black of a B8 out to 50 yards.

[DocGKR]

We have used 25 yards on a B8 since starting RDS use for handguns in 2010....

[Erick Gelhaus]

I was in the 25-yard zero camp for quite a while. Then I went to Sig's red dot optics instructor class. They advocated for and explained the ballistic data supporting a 15-yard zero. Considering that data with a teaching perspective - the ability of people to shoot groups at 15yds vs 25yds, time spent running two zero'ing sessions (1st @ 10 and again at 25) - drove me to decide on the 15-yard number.

Wouldn't talk anyone out of the 25-yard number but when you work within a program that shoots back to 15-yards in one class and 35-50-yards in another, I'm still good with the 15-yard zero and learning how it works at farther distances.

Regardless of the zero you go, like whichever one you choose for your AR, work it at different distances and see how it works.

[Tokarev]

10 to 15 yards with conformation at longer (25ish) seems to be a norm.

The idea of 10 / 25 is what Modern Samurai uses.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[CSW]

Can't thank you all enough.
Some very interesting perspectives on distances. With any luck I'll have my red dot project assembled by the month's end.

I've chosen the an RMR, specifically the RM04. I'm hooked on the idea of the 6 dot, and no batteries to worry about.

[Casual Friday]

I've ran the 10, 15, and 25 yard zero. I came back and settled on the 15 yard zero. I found that I was the most consistent at distances beyond 25 and up to 50 with it with no discernible difference at distances between bad breath and 20.

[DaBigBR]

One of the Scott Jedlinski-isms:

"If you're a good shooter, your zero doesn't really matter. If you're a bad shooter, you're zero really doesn't matter."

[MVS]

I have to say, I am surprised at all of the 15 yard responses. Like Doc I have been running a slide mounted red dot since 2010 and have never seen 15 yards as a thing. I am not saying it is a wrong answer, just that it is new to me.

[TOTS]

I initially tried a benched 25 yd zero for both a RMR and a 508t. After chasing my tail a little with both I ended up having a better result with a 15 yd zero and a couple of confirmation shots at 25. I’m just not good enough at 25 (mid-high 80s ona B8) to zero there. My ballistics app shows the 15 yd zero gives me a (acceptable) deviation of .3 in from 10-35 yds whereas the 25 had me off as much as 1.5 in up close. I’m 50% on an 8 in steel at 82 yds with this zero method, so I’m not changing.

[Casual Friday]

I have to say, I am surprised at all of the 15 yard responses. Like Doc I have been running a slide mounted red dot since 2010 and have never seen 15 yards as a thing. I am not saying it is a wrong answer, just that it is new to me.

If you really wanna get into the weeds, there's also a 13, 18, and 27 yard zero that people have wrote/vlog'd about.

[TCinVA]

If you really wanna get into the weeds, there's also a 13, 18, and 27 yard zero that people have wrote/vlog'd about.

It's going to be the same thing as rifle zeroing. Everybody has their own theory.

Personally, I subscribe to the motto of "Keep the thing the thing". I teach people so I'm primarily interested in whether or not their bullets are hitting the thing they are trying to hit at any given moment. On handguns when the answer is "No" it's exceedingly rare that the zero on their sights/optic is the reason.

15 probably has a lot of logic to it, but I find that it's about 10 yards where people's ability to shoot a pistol consistently really falls off a cliff. So it makes sense to have them shoot at a distance where they can shoot a useful group even if it is mathematically sub-optimal by some reasoning, because an optimal distance where they can't generate useful data isn't keeping the thing the thing. A zero that's outstanding for some other dude who isn't shooting your gun doesn't help you much. Luckily I don't have to deal with setting policy for an organization so I have the luxury of dealing with clients as individuals.

The temptation with RDS sights on pistols is to get deep in the weeds about the gizmo on top of the gun, but the thing on top of the gun doesn't shoot the gun. It's nothing more than an aiming reference to hopefully give us an accurate prediction of what the muzzle is pointed at. Ballistic trajectories and the like are cool and all, but it occupies the same size slice of the reality pie chart as someone who would celebrate a 500 million dollar lotto check by pounding their testicles flat with a wooden mallet.

Handgun distance can be whatever I say it is (200 yards a couple of weeks ago!), but realistically the typical use of them is at around a car's length. We need to be set up to make precise, rapid hits at that distance and then see what we can do with that setup at longer distances should those statistical outliers manifest.

So I'm a fan of simplicity and reliability. I find that when clients ask me questions they are usually searching for the same things, bounded by what they can do and what they have ready access to.

[Casual Friday]

It's going to be the same thing as rifle zeroing. Everybody has their own theory.

Personally, I subscribe to the motto of "Keep the thing the thing". I teach people so I'm primarily interested in whether or not their bullets are hitting the thing they are trying to hit at any given moment. On handguns when the answer is "No" it's exceedingly rare that the zero on their sights/optic is the reason.

15 probably has a lot of logic to it, but I find that it's about 10 yards where people's ability to shoot a pistol consistently really falls off a cliff. So it makes sense to have them shoot at a distance where they can shoot a useful group even if it is mathematically sub-optimal by some reasoning, because an optimal distance where they can't generate useful data isn't keeping the thing the thing. A zero that's outstanding for some other dude who isn't shooting your gun doesn't help you much. Luckily I don't have to deal with setting policy for an organization so I have the luxury of dealing with clients as individuals.

The temptation with RDS sights on pistols is to get deep in the weeds about the gizmo on top of the gun, but the thing on top of the gun doesn't shoot the gun. It's nothing more than an aiming reference to hopefully give us an accurate prediction of what the muzzle is pointed at. Ballistic trajectories and the like are cool and all, but it occupies the same size slice of the reality pie chart as someone who would celebrate a 500 million dollar lotto check by pounding their testicles flat with a wooden mallet.

Handgun distance can be whatever I say it is (200 yards a couple of weeks ago!), but realistically the typical use of them is at around a car's length. We need to be set up to make precise, rapid hits at that distance and then see what we can do with that setup at longer distances should those statistical outliers manifest.

So I'm a fan of simplicity and reliability. I find that when clients ask me questions they are usually searching for the same things, bounded by what they can do and what they have ready access to.

Yes.

[JCN]

So I'm a fan of simplicity and reliability. I find that when clients ask me questions they are usually searching for the same things, bounded by what they can do and what they have ready access to.

If I could like this more than once….

[Casey]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been covered more eloquently by others, but I'm another vote in the 10/25 yard camp. I'll go put a few rounds on paper at 10 just to make sure I'm in the ballpark (and I'll make rough adjustments as needed), but then I spend most—probably too much—of my time at 25 with the gun bagged and benched. Typically, I can hold around a 2-3" group with the aid of a bag, whereas offhand, I'm generally a high-80s to low-90s guy on a B-8.

I tend to shoot three-round groups for rough adjustments at 10 and then five-round groups when fine-tuning, and if I have time, I'll shoot two groups after each adjustment (and before making another), just to ensure it's not me screwing something up. Once I get everything dialed in, I like to shoot a final 10-round group for confirmation. I usually practice with American Eagle 147gr and carry HST 147gr, so I've found that I can get away with doing most of my zeroing using AE and then switching over to HST for some minor final tweaking. There's a discernible POI shift between the two, but it's small enough that I can get to a final zero with just a couple clicks, which is more cost effective than ripping through a bunch of HST.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52019643642_992eed2662_z.jpg

Today, I didn't have a bench available and I needed to zero a gun, so I shot offhand at 10 and 25... and it was definitely much faster. Reading some of the discussion here combined with today's experience tells me I'm probably spending more time chasing a perfect zero than I need to. For confirmation today, I shot out to 45ish yards and kept everything in the A-zone, so I'm trying to be satisfied with that.


Scott Jedlinski advocates a tight 1 inch square zero at 10 yards with a confirmation at 25. It’s got to be offhand to line up your vision through the lens and the target. He says bench resting can skew the results since you can’t perfectly line it all up on the same plane.
I'd like to hear more about this. I agree that hunching over a bench adds a weird posture to the process, but I don't quite understand what isn't being lined up on the same plane. (I attended Scott's class in 2019 but may have forgotten some of the specifics he covered about zeroing.)

[Paul Blackburn]

Red dot shooting is no longer a specific niche -- it has become mainstream. With all the red dot activity, I would be hard pressed to call anyone "the top red dot instructor in the US," but with that said, you have people like Max Michel, Hwansik Kim, Steoger and JJ putting out red dot content weekly or even daily.

Where are they putting out content weekly or daily?

[JCN]

Where are they putting out content weekly or daily?

Max Michel has a Patreon training program with 300 videos with new ones multiple times per week.

Stoeger and Kim have the Practical Training Group forum and format.

They all teach classes too.

[HCM]

The Trijicon RMR sight in targets I found on line show 10 yards... I don't know if that is a standard. Target stating the clicks are1 MOA adjustment.

This is how we are sighting in agents on the new issued RMR. We start at 10y, then confirm farther back doing a "walk back drill" (25, 50,75,100) on steel out to 100y and scoring hits.

Check your PM.

[HCM]

Personally I use the Jedlinski method - dial in at 10 yards, confirm at 25.

Current procedures at work is co-witness followed by a 15 yard zero from a rest such as a barrel which mimics the distance between the optic and the eye when shooting offhand. The zero target is similar to the 50 yard zero target for RDS on carbines. A 1 1/2” center circle inside a B8 sized circle.

Since this is for the masses and new RDS shooters, we accept a 5 round group centered within the B8 sized circle aa “zeroed. “

[RJ]

Since this is for the masses and new RDS shooters, we accept a 5 round group centered within the B8 sized circle aa “zeroed. “

H - Do your students bench rest the pistol, or is this 5 round within a B-8 (I assume "within" means the black/9 ring/5.54", right?) standing, two-hand unsupported?

[HCM]

H - Do your students bench rest the pistol, or is this 5 round within a B-8 (I assume "within" means the black/9 ring/5.54", right?) standing, two-hand unsupported?

As noted supported off a table, barrel, trash can etc.

Most of the ranges we use don’t have multiple benchrest like commercial ranges.

We try to avoid zeroing from prone because that usually ends up with the pistol and optic closer to the face than it would be in a normal offhand shooting stance which would create the potential for parallax issues.

The target is similar to the Arma Dynamics 50 yard carbine zero target:

87775

http://www.arma-dynamics.com/red-dot-zero-targets.html

This is certainly “a” way, not “the” way. Personally from a rest at 15 yards I want all my rounds in the center circle for zero. However for hundreds or thousands of shooters of varying abilities who will get either eight or 16 hours to become functional with a red dot the B8-ish standard works.

Our minimum requirement is 8 hours of RDS/PMO transition training but locally we’ve convinced the powers that be to give us 16 hours. It’s not uncommon to have shooters adjust or refine their zero later on in the training as they become more comfortable and proficient with the dot.

[TC215]

I’ve generally done 15 yard zeros, but just went through a Jedlinski class and he does the 10 yard, as mentioned previously.

It doesn’t really matter. There are better things to discuss.

[Wyoming Shooter]

For simplicity, I use a 25 yard zero with red dot pistols, red dot PCCs, and red dot shotguns. With some variation based on mechanical offset of the optic, it puts me on at 25, a bit high at 50, on at 75, and a bit low at 100. 5.56 carbines get a 50/220 zero and most all other center fire rifles on at 200.

PS: using the Wheeler laser, after mounting an optic, I am generally within an inch or so at 25 yards with the pistols.

George - Given a 25 yard shotgun zero, what are you seeing at 50, 75, and 100? Thanks!

[GJM]

George - Given a 25 yard shotgun zero, what are you seeing at 50, 75, and 100? Thanks!

Exactly what is in the post you quoted — on at 25, bit high at 50, on at 75, and lower at 100.

87967

[Wyoming Shooter]

Thanks. I had supposed greater drop for the shotgun slugs. I'll do some experimentation and report back.

[CSW]

My RMR 04 arrived today.
Hopefully will be able to mount it soon.


GJM;
Where'd you find 16 gauge slugs?
My model 12 is pining for them.

eta:
Brenneke, obviously 🙄