Question about converting a CA compliant magazine to full capacity

[corneileous]

Hey guys, a buddy of mine has an EAA Witness PL Pavona 9mm (https://www.atlanticguns.com/product.eaa-witness-pl-pavona-9mm-bfs) that he bought for his wife and he's trying to find anywhere that sells magazines because the pistol only came with just one. The manufacturer's site says the 13-round magazines are out of stock and nobody seems to know wen they will come available again and out of all the 15 or 20 sites I found that sells that magazine, they all say out of stock and some even say out of stock with no backorder so, there is an alternative magazine for this pistol but its only a 10-round so it can be legal in those states that have a 10-round limit.

I found a video on YouTube where a guy took a Colorado-compliant 15-round magazine for an AR15, took the short spring and spacer out and replaced it with a new full-length spring and converted it back to a 30-round magazine so, would it be safe to essentially do the same thing with one of these 10-round magazines for this pistol being that the full capacity magazine is only 13 rounds? I guess the 10-rounder could possibly have a little bit shorter spring than the other one but would it really be enough to matter being that its only for another three rounds of already-small diameter 9mm? I told him to just get one, take it and the original mag apart, compare the springs and even if the other spring is in fact a tiny bit shorter to just take the spacer out, put it back together, load it up and try it and if it has feeding issues on either of the last three shots then maybe he'd just have to leave it as it came and hope some day they'll have a restock of the 13-round magazines.

[whomever]

Hey guys, a buddy of mine has an EAA Witness PL Pavona 9mm (https://www.atlanticguns.com/product.eaa-witness-pl-pavona-9mm-bfs) that he bought for his wife and he's trying to find anywhere that sells magazines because the pistol only came with just one. The manufacturer's site says the 13-round magazines are out of stock and nobody seems to know wen they will come available again and out of all the 15 or 20 sites I found that sells that magazine, they all say out of stock and some even say out of stock with no backorder so, there is an alternative magazine for this pistol but its only a 10-round so it can be legal in those states that have a 10-round limit.

I found a video on YouTube where a guy took a Colorado-compliant 15-round magazine for an AR15, took the short spring and spacer out and replaced it with a new full-length spring and converted it back to a 30-round magazine so, would it be safe to essentially do the same thing with one of these 10-round magazines for this pistol being that the full capacity magazine is only 13 rounds? I guess the 10-rounder could possibly have a little bit shorter spring than the other one but would it really be enough to matter being that its only for another three rounds of already-small diameter 9mm? I told him to just get one, take it and the original mag apart, compare the springs and even if the other spring is in fact a tiny bit shorter to just take the spacer out, put it back together, load it up and try it and if it has feeding issues on either of the last three shots then maybe he'd just have to leave it as it came and hope some day they'll have a restock of the 13-round magazines.

It depends. Some reduced capacity mags (SIG 229, for example, see below) have a shorter metal tube with a reeally thick 'baseplate':

https://gregcotellc.com/cart/images/Mec-Gar%20Sig%20Sauer%20P228%2010%20RD%20blued%20MGP22 810B.jpg

It just depends on how they went about reducing the capacity.

If you have a full length tube, then you get to worry about the spring :-)

[corneileous]

It depends. Some reduced capacity mags (SIG 229, for example, see below) have a shorter metal tube with a reeally thick 'baseplate':

https://gregcotellc.com/cart/images/Mec-Gar%20Sig%20Sauer%20P228%2010%20RD%20blued%20MGP22 810B.jpg

It just depends on how they went about reducing the capacity.

If you have a full length tube, then you get to worry about the spring :-)

I just ordered for him, three of those magazines and on the screen, they look to be the same size so if they're not, he said its only three less rounds so if it don't work, its fine.

[4RNR]

Nevermind, misread.

[corneileous]

Isn't it just a witness mag?

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Yeah but there's a compact large frame mag for the witness and there's a compact small frame mag for it but after using the magazine lookup tool on EAA's website via the serial number of the gun, the two mags it calls for are the compact small frame.

Im not sure at all what the difference is because at first I thought the small frame meant compact and the large frame meat full-size but they both said compact so, I have no idea.

[BN]

Have you tried any CZ mags to see if they would work?

[Suvorov]

Almost all “factory” 10 round magazines I have come across are not easily convertible back to original capacity. They usually incorporate shorter tubes with a longer plastic base, or have large dimples stamped into the body that would prevent the body from accepting any more ammo and basically be impossible to modify. Some older magazines do have modified followers that block the magazine from accepting more than 10 rounds but I have not seen any factory magazines made that way since the 1990. California law states that any conversion to 10 round from higher capacity must be *PERMANENT* and lists several examples of how this can be accomplished. Many companies will offer 10 round limited magazines for sale in Kalifornia and most of these can be converted back even though they are supposed to. Basically just one more example of the futility of it all.

[corneileous]

Have you tried any CZ mags to see if they would work?

Didn’t know those CZ mags had a potential of fitting….


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[corneileous]

Almost all “factory” 10 round magazines I have come across are not easily convertible back to original capacity. They usually incorporate shorter tubes with a longer plastic follower, or have large dimples stamped into the body that would prevent the body from accepting any more ammo and basically be impossible to modify. Some older magazines do have modified followers that block the magazine from accepting more than 10 rounds but I have not seen any factory magazines made that way since the 1990. California law states that any conversion to 10 round from higher capacity must be *PERMANENT* and lists several examples of how this can be accomplished. Many companies will offer 10 round limited magazines for sale in Kalifornia and most of these can be converted back even though they are supposed to. Basically just one more example of the futility of it all.

Good to know. I’ve never done this before because I’ve never needed to but after watching that video on YouTube, I was just like, is it really that easy?… Lol. But then again, in relation to what you said, this was a Colorado compliant magazine that the guy was converting from a 15 round back to a 30 round in his AR so I have no idea if Colorado shares that same law California does about saying the 10 round conversion has to be made permanent but like I said last night, he ordered three of the 10 round magazines so when they come in I told him we’ll just have to take one of them apart and see if it’s just as simple as removing a spacer or if there’s a whole lot more involved converting it back to a 13 round magazine to which he said, if it don’t work, it’s only short three rounds and I’ll have three more magazines.… Lol.


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[Duelist]

If I understand correctly, small frame vs large frame refers to those dimensions that mean one frame is appropriate for cartridges of 9x19 length, while the large frame is appropriate for cartridges .45 ACP/10mm/.38 Super length.

I’ve not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently, though, so that could all be a complete misunderstanding.

[corneileous]

If I understand correctly, small frame vs large frame refers to those dimensions that mean one frame is appropriate for cartridges of 9x19 length, while the large frame is appropriate for cartridges .45 ACP/10mm/.38 Super length.

I’ve not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently, though, so that could all be a complete misunderstanding.

That could very well be but that’s what had me confused was that one of them was a compact small frame 9 mm and the other one was for a compact large frame 9 mm…


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[Duelist]

That could very well be but that’s what had me confused was that one of them was a compact small frame 9 mm and the other one was for a compact large frame 9 mm…


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And we can chamber 9x19 in 1911s, and they function with modified magazines, so ...

[corneileous]

Well, my buddy got his magazines in but I guess he hasn’t yet had a chance to tear one of them apart just to see what limits them to 10 rounds but he did say that the one he loaded was a lot harder to put the 10th round in than it was to put the 13th round in the original magazine so does that mean that hopefully the spring is probably the same length as the one in the 13 rounder? He said he was going to take one of his magazines apart this weekend and compare them so we’ll see ultimately what exactly is in there that limits the magazines to 10 rounds.


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[Jim Watson]

That goes back to what Suvorov said; a magazine built to absolutely positively not hold 11 will be hard to load the 10th in. It will be difficult to impossible to get in the gun under a closed slide after you cram in that 10th round, too.

[corneileous]

Well guys, I thought I should share that I finally got a chance to look at one of those three reduced capacity magazines that my buddy had to buy and to be honest, they weren’t really all that hard to delete the 10 round restriction. All they did to restrict them was about an inch up from the bottom of the slide on the front and the back, they put this little dimple in the sheet metal that actually prevented the follower from going all the way down to the bottom of the magazine so all I had to do was shave away a little bit of the plastic on the front and the back of the follower so now it just goes right past those two little dimples and goes all the way to the bottom. The spring was exactly the same length as it was in the unrestricted magazine.

I only did the one magazine so hopefully if he lets me modify the other two I’ll try to take pictures of what I had to do.


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[Jim Watson]

Interesting, that would not have passed BATF scrutiny during AWB 1994-2004.

[corneileous]

Interesting, that would not have passed BATF scrutiny during AWB 1994-2004.

Really? Hmm… I didn’t think the Federal Assault Weapons Ban included pistols but since this was back in a time where I had no interest in guns at all, did the FAWB include pistol magazines over a certain amount of rounds?


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[Caballoflaco]

Really? Hmm… I didn’t think the Federal Assault Weapons Ban included pistols but since this was back in a time where I had no interest in guns at all, did the FAWB include pistol magazines over a certain amount of rounds?


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Yes. All new detachable magazines for pistols and rifles were limited to 10 rounds. You could still buy standard capacity used magazines for pistols or rifles provided they were manufactured before 1994.

ETA: this is a big reason that the 1911 saw a surge in popularity from the mid 90’s into the early 2000’s.

[corneileous]

Yes. All new detachable magazines for pistols and rifles were limited to 10 rounds. You could still buy standard capacity used magazines for pistols or rifles provided they were manufactured before 1994.
Yeah, and I’m sure none of that did any good for helping against crime, did it?… LOL. I guess we should consider ourselves awful lucky that they decided to do away with it.


ETA: this is a big reason that the 1911 saw a surge in popularity from the mid 90’s into the early 2000’s.
I guess it’s all within the matters of ballistics but a typical 1911 loaded with 9 or 10 rounds of 45 ACP is probably just as affective, if not maybe a little bit more than a Glock 17 with 20 rounds of 9 mm unless you find yourself in an actual gun fight where you need all 20 of those rounds.


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[TicTacticalTimmy]

If I understand correctly, small frame vs large frame refers to those dimensions that mean one frame is appropriate for cartridges of 9x19 length, while the large frame is appropriate for cartridges .45 ACP/10mm/.38 Super length.

I’ve not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently, though, so that could all be a complete misunderstanding.

This is incorrect. The Tanfoglio Small Frame is pretty much a CZ75 clone. Many CZ75 parts fit, such as magazines.

The Tanfoglio Large Frame is what almost all the Tanfos imported into the US use, regardless of caliber. It is beefed up and stretched out to allow for 10mm, .45, .38 super, etc. But can also be had in 9mm and .40 like the Small Frames. It uses totally different magazines and all different internal parts from a CZ75.

I am 95% sure that any CZ75 magazine should fit your friends' gun. Compact mags may not due to the baseplate being different, and it may not lock back on the last round due to the follower being different, although I suspect that you wouldn't have any issues in these areas either.

[Duelist]

This is incorrect. The Tanfoglio Small Frame is pretty much a CZ75 clone. Many CZ75 parts fit, such as magazines.

The Tanfoglio Large Frame is what almost all the Tanfos imported into the US use, regardless of caliber. It is beefed up and stretched out to allow for 10mm, .45, .38 super, etc. But can also be had in 9mm and .40 like the Small Frames. It uses totally different magazines and all different internal parts from a CZ75.

I am 95% sure that any CZ75 magazine should fit your friends' gun. Compact mags may not due to the baseplate being different, and it may not lock back on the last round due to the follower being different, although I suspect that you wouldn't have any issues in these areas either.

Actually, that’s exactly what I said. Thanks, though.