View Full Version : PF home solar power thread
hufnagel
04-07-2022, 06:55 AM
that inverter generator one is tempting.
I need to get my head out of my ass, finish up a bunch of the open projects I have, and get working on some of these nutty ideas I have.
Got someone coming Saturday to see if I qualify for this free roof+solar install. I know they usually are too good to be true, but I need a roof, I don't want to spend the 5 figures it'll cost to get it done, and we're hopefully out of here in 5 years. As long as it doesn't affect my ability to sell this place, if the numbers work out I'll be getting it done. that'll be a grid-tied setup, so I'd then have the nut ball idea of, if the power's out, can I supply my own "reference" power to bring the panels back online.
hufnagel
04-10-2022, 09:46 AM
in tangentially related news, we're getting a free roof with our solar installation contract. :D
NJ's solar programs are making it so that the numbers worked out as either a wash, or vibrating slightly around over/under in terms of my current energy costs.
With rising fuel prices (NJ predominantly uses NG for electrical generation) We should be net negative rather quickly.
I'll need to talk to the engineers about how to integrate my generator into the system. :D
in tangentially related news, we're getting a free roof with our solar installation contract. :D
NJ's solar programs are making it so that the numbers worked out as either a wash, or vibrating slightly around over/under in terms of my current energy costs.
With rising fuel prices (NJ predominantly uses NG for electrical generation) We should be net negative rather quickly.
I'll need to talk to the engineers about how to integrate my generator into the system. :D
Tell me more about your solar installation? We are getting solar panels with backup batteries within the next couple of months. Do we need to split the thread and start one on solar? We looked into solar in the past, but evidently the battery technology has improved recently so backup is possible now.
rayrevolver
04-11-2022, 06:15 AM
BLUF: Buy a crashed Tesla and make your own powerwall. Might need an EE degree from MIT.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hackster.io/news/kentucky-congressman-converts-a-tesla-model-s-into-a-home-powerwall-72604188c286.amp
Break Break
I learned about Seafoam from BITOG. Father-in-law never heard of it but let me put it in the ATV that he sorta neglects. It's magic.
Use the Marine Stabil for my gas cans but don't use Seafoam unless things are running rough.
Coyotesfan97
04-11-2022, 01:36 PM
Of course they had to get some political digs in there. It sounds like a great build
HeavyDuty
04-11-2022, 02:42 PM
Watching with interest. The idea of adding solar to the new home is appealing.
Same. I am seriously considering it in CT.
I assume the deal with a free roof is a lease rather than purchase. Is that correct?
A friends father in California has a solar system that was from some sort of govt financed plan. He is not allowed to disconnect from the grid and power his home. Im not saying thats the case in your State, just that I would look at the stipulations closely.
Thats a big deal in my State right now. I just had a new roof installed and one of my concerns about it is who is responsible for a roof leak?
Thats a big deal in my State right now. I just had a new roof installed and one of my concerns about it is who is responsible for a roof leak?
... and if you've got an older roof, and need to replace the roof, who removes the solar panels and puts them back up on the new roof, and what does that cost?
I just looked up solar in my State. Surprise surprise the State just gutted the net metering law reducing what you get paid to send electric back to the provider.
And there was a 33% price increase for natural gas.
RoyGBiv
04-12-2022, 08:59 AM
Some of the rooftop solar lease deals I've read about have been horrible. Mostly around the loss of control... As mentioned above, what if you need a new roof after the install?
Biggest concern for me would be that some deals contractually carry over to subsequent owners.... Who's going to buy your house if you wind up upside down on a solar panel deal that you can't terminate?
Based on the little I've read, (i) you want to make sure that the life expectancy of your roof is in line with the life expectancy of the solar system to avoid having to remove one to replace the other - which I expect is the driver for the free roof replacement deals and (ii) the lease deals also don't add to the value of the house (though a free roof would here) while a purchased solar system would.
ETA: Not to say that the lease deals can't/don't make sense. Just things that factor into the decision.
Has anybody looked at the Tesla powerwall system, which I understand requires you to purchase Tesla solar panels as part of the package, and how costs compare to a solar install on its own?
Who maintains the equipment? The panels and wiring and to convert the dc to ac? Is that covered under home owners for lightning or power surge?
Does it have a battery? How long will the battery power the house. Replacement cost?
Who maintains the equipment? The panels and wiring and to convert the dc to ac? Is that covered under home owners for lightning or power surge?
Does it have a battery? How long will the battery power the house. Replacement cost?
I've only just started looking into this myself, so take any of the below in that context.
Leased systems are maintained/repaired by the lessor, owned by the homeowner but the roof underneath them is on the homeowner. Maybe that's different with a free roof deal? No idea. I also don't know what's part of the "system" that's covered in the lease. I would guess there's a lot of variation and a lot of room to get screwed if you don't review carefully.
Panels and wiring are part of the installation cost. No idea who covers what in a lease scenario.
Tesla powerwall is a battery and solar system. Otherwise, a battery system is generally a separate item, as I understand it.
You'd have to look at your homeowners insurance if you own the system and the lease to make sure lightning, etc. is covered for you if you lease.
RoyGBiv
04-12-2022, 02:43 PM
Some of the rooftop solar lease deals I've read about have been horrible. Mostly around the loss of control... As mentioned above, what if you need a new roof after the install?
Biggest concern for me would be that some deals contractually carry over to subsequent owners.... Who's going to buy your house if you wind up upside down on a solar panel deal that you can't terminate?
Following up after refreshing my memory....
1. If you are leasing the system, say for 20 years, your home is locked in to the lease deal and that obligation transfers to the new owner if you sell.
2. If you are paying, $200/month for the lease, do you save any money? Is your electric bill 2400/year?
3. What rate do you pay if you need more power than you produce?
4. What rate do you get paid for putting power back onto the grid?
IMO, #1 is a deal killer for me. Even if I save a few bucks in the short term.
Has anybody looked at the Tesla powerwall system, which I understand requires you to purchase Tesla solar panels as part of the package, and how costs compare to a solar install on its own?
I did the Tesla online thing where they estimate what you need. They don't service my area. I think the cost was comparable to what we ended up ordering from Powerhome Solar.
We are getting solar roof panels from Powerhome and it comes with Generac back up batteries. It depends on how many batteries you get, how much of the house can be powered during a grid down situation during the night. Extra batteries can be added. Ours will power 2 refrigerators, a freezer, the propane furnace, wifi circuits and some other lights etc. The solar panels are supposed to run these circuits during daylight hours while charging the batteries for night. We have a propane range already. We're hoping it works as described. :)
When we looked at solar a few years ago, there weren't batteries available for what we wanted.
Our steel 50 year roof is only about 10 years old. Our house has the roof and porch roof on one side facing directly South.
We are buying, not leasing. They set up monthly payments that will be approximately what the maximum monthly power bill is or you can buy outright. Theoretically, you will come close to evening out when you sell excess power back to the power company. ;)
Based on the little I've read, (i) you want to make sure that the life expectancy of your roof is in line with the life expectancy of the solar system to avoid having to remove one to replace the other - which I expect is the driver for the free roof replacement deals and (ii) the lease deals also don't add to the value of the house (though a free roof would here) while a purchased solar system would.
ETA: Not to say that the lease deals can't/don't make sense. Just things that factor into the decision.
Has anybody looked at the Tesla powerwall system, which I understand requires you to purchase Tesla solar panels as part of the package, and how costs compare to a solar install on its own?
This is precisely what happened in my case.
The house I bought in 2020 had a nice solar panel system installed on it. But it was a Paid Power Agreement (PPA). PPA's are terrifying garbage where where basically I get to pay the solar provider (Vivint when I bought the house, now 'SunRun') just a tiny smidge less than the same price as I'd be paying for power from the local utility. The connection fee to stay connected to the power grid with the utility themselves is more expensive than the savings. In return, they make money off the excess during peak solar production and they get paid the difference for net production from the utility company, and it's my responsibility to maintain my roof and home and their solar installation. Totally shit deal just to say there's solar panels on top of my house.
As a home buyer, there was no way to cancel or change this contract. There's one clause in the contract that allows me to buy the entire system from the provider 6 years after it was installed which will be early 2023. But that is contingent on the 'assessed value' of the installed system but provides nothing in the way of details of how that value is assessed, or how to pay that value and take ownership of the installed system.
Calls to the company to try to get a dollar figure or even a ballpark for the system buy-out is a never ending stonewall job and I might have to lawyer up.
On a related note, Vivint solar sold all the PPA's like mine to SunRun after NM sued Vivint and they paid a settlement to the state. But none of that settlement went to NM citizens that were affected by these bullshit PPA contracts.
TL;DR if it's too good to be true it probably is. Read ALL of the fine print before signing a fucking thing. Some of these solar sellers are absolute fucking snakes.
Reduced net metering allowance. They did allow existing customers to keep the original rate.
https://wfpl.org/ky-utility-regulators-uphold-the-value-of-net-metering-for-lge-ky-customers/
Under the revised rates, LG&E and KU customers who want to put solar on their homes will be credited about 7 cents per kilowatt hour for the excess energy they put back onto the grid, according to last week’s order.
That’s less than the one-to-one retail rate LG&E and KU customers received before, but more than the 2.3 cents per kilowatt hour that the utility wanted to pay.
I did the Tesla online thing where they estimate what you need. They don't service my area. I think the cost was comparable to what we ended up ordering from Powerhome Solar.
I did this last night with the same result, so if I'm going to go solar I'll be doing the same. Any tips or tricks or things you wish you'd known going in that I/anybody else starting down this path wouldn't get or wouldn't seem obvious through online research and calling contractors? CT has a decent website as a jumping off point and pretty good incentives. I'm seriously considering this, especially because I'm also looking at my options for dealing with an ancient central air setup and oil heat and basically any of them that are worth exploring (heat pump., geothermal) will be forced air, which means my electricity usage will go up.
Default.mp3
04-13-2022, 10:06 AM
Something to consider when taking out a solar loan is to compare the interest rate to the discount points. For me, locally, many places had very low rates for the loans, but the discount points were noticeable, enough that I ended up taking a slightly higher interest rate on my solar loan with minimal discount points, as it would have a lower overall cost at the end.
Last I had checked, I'm not sure of the efficacy of PV in some of the places folks in here are talking about, like CT or KY. Definitely work with multiple installers to do solar analysis. I would also highly advise meeting with multiple installers to get the best quote; think of this as like buying a car, you'd want to hit several dealership, and understand that the salesperson may not be the most knowledgeable, nor have your best interests at heart.
HeavyDuty
04-13-2022, 12:58 PM
There have been two serious (2”+) hailstorms in the area of my new home in the last two weeks. I think I’m going to wait before I seriously consider rooftop solar.
BLUF: Buy a crashed Tesla and make your own powerwall. Might need an EE degree from MIT..
Be sure to figure in the cost of Nomex pajamas.
RoyGBiv
04-13-2022, 03:33 PM
There have been two serious (2”+) hailstorms in the area of my new home in the last two weeks. I think I’m going to wait before I seriously consider rooftop solar.
Welcome to Texas.
FYI... The Radarscope app is worth the price.
https://www.dtn.com/radarscope-4-0/
Apple and Android versions availableIIRC about $10/ The desktop version is more spendy and IMO, not worth it. I use it on my phone almost exclusively.
Spartan1980
04-13-2022, 10:15 PM
This guy did a pretty good video on his experience with a Tesla roof. He goes over his analysis and comparisons in it. It’s pretty long. I ran across it a few months ago and hopefully grabbed the right video as he has several on it so you should be able to find them all on his YouTube page. I’m no huge solar proponent but found this guy’s video, cost analysis and justification interesting.
I won’t be buying one soon as my state pays wholesale rates for what you put into the grid and charges full retail for what the take out.
https://youtu.be/qXJ9WUciBVA
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Problem solved thanks to hillbilly ingenuity.
There have been two serious (2”+) hailstorms in the area of my new home in the last two weeks. I think I’m going to wait before I seriously consider rooftop solar.
87428
They are coming to install the solar panels on Monday and Tuesday. I guess I'll know more soon.
I did the Tesla online thing where they estimate what you need. They don't service my area. I think the cost was comparable to what we ended up ordering from Powerhome Solar.
We are getting solar roof panels from Powerhome and it comes with Generac back up batteries. It depends on how many batteries you get, how much of the house can be powered during a grid down situation during the night. Extra batteries can be added. Ours will power 2 refrigerators, a freezer, the propane furnace, wifi circuits and some other lights etc. The solar panels are supposed to run these circuits during daylight hours while charging the batteries for night. We have a propane range already. We're hoping it works as described. :)
When we looked at solar a few years ago, there weren't batteries available for what we wanted.
Our steel 50 year roof is only about 10 years old. Our house has the roof and porch roof on one side facing directly South.
We are buying, not leasing. They set up monthly payments that will be approximately what the maximum monthly power bill is or you can buy outright. Theoretically, you will come close to evening out when you sell excess power back to the power company. ;)
LittleLebowski
11-15-2022, 10:43 AM
Excellent deal if you only need three panels.
https://www.santansolar.com/product/used-axitec-370w-solar-panel/
hufnagel
11-15-2022, 10:58 AM
despite the unlubed fisting I got trying to do solar on my house, I think I'm going to dabble into deploying my own small ground mount array sometime next year. thinking a couple panels with micro inverters. just to see what's what and start learning what I don't know i don't know (much like the rain capture setup.)
hufnagel
11-15-2022, 10:59 AM
Problem solved thanks to hillbilly ingenuity.
87428
not gonna lie, that's not the dumbest idea I've ever seen. in fact in terms of quick procurement and deployment, it's kinda genius.
despite the unlubed fisting I got trying to do solar on my house, I think I'm going to dabble into deploying my own small ground mount array sometime next year. thinking a couple panels with micro inverters. just to see what's what and start learning what I don't know i don't know (much like the rain capture setup.)
My neighbor has a small array on his patio roof. He set a sub panel and ran his 110 into that panel. He bought Chinese batteries and only powers his 110. Hes reported a significant reduction in his monthly bill.
hufnagel
11-15-2022, 08:59 PM
My neighbor has a small array on his patio roof. He set a sub panel and ran his 110 into that panel. He bought Chinese batteries and only powers his 110. Hes reported a significant reduction in his monthly bill.
ideally I'd like to do something with the small array that uses gear I can "recycle" into the new location when the time comes; possibly EG4 rack batteries and split-phase inverter.
ideally I'd like to do something with the small array that uses gear I can "recycle" into the new location when the time comes; possibly EG4 rack batteries and split-phase inverter.
So youre going to run what load with split phase?
hufnagel
11-16-2022, 07:27 AM
So youre going to run what load with split phase?
eventually/potentially everything. :D
realized I should have said split-phase *capable* inverters. like the EG4 6500EX-48, which you need 2 to make split phase, or if you're really crazy can tie 3 to make 3-phase, with up to 6 total combined in any configuration.
my napkin-designed future house/barn/workshop is powered by at least 2 of them with a couple stacks of rack batteries.
eventually/potentially everything. :D
realized I should have said split-phase *capable* inverters. like the EG4 6500EX-48, which you need 2 to make split phase, or if you're really crazy can tie 3 to make 3-phase, with up to 6 total combined in any configuration.
my napkin-designed future house/barn/workshop is powered by at least 2 of them with a couple stacks of rack batteries.
Now Im really curious. I cant help but wonder, why?
hufnagel
11-16-2022, 08:28 PM
Now Im really curious. I cant help but wonder, why?
I want the house to be as independent of major utilities as much as possible.
whomever
11-17-2022, 08:21 AM
Just FWIW, inverters have an idle draw that is generally roughly proportional to their max wattage, i.e. a 3000W inverter has an idle draw three times that of a 1000W inverter.
For mixed loads, it can be more efficient to have two inverters, one large, one small. For example, an always-on 1000W inverter that can run the fridge, lights, charge phones, etc, and a bigger one that you turn on as needed, e..g to run the milling machine.
Or, just run the big inverter all the time, and have more panels and batteries to account for the greater idle draw.
At our cabin, we have a 1000W we turn on for small loads, and a 3000W we only turn on for tools that need it.
There isn't one right answer, it's all tradeoffs. But if you want to smart small and get your feet wet, you might still find use for some of the stuff when you scale up.
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