A question for the PDP people

[KevH]

I wrote a month or so ago about my department's quest for a new duty handgun with an optic mounted.

I had reached out to Walther on a bit of a whim based on a conversation with one of our officers. It was more simple curiosity than intent. To my surprise, they have been incredibly accommodating. Today, Walther flew one of their trainers out (from Maryland to California) to my department to put on a private armorer's class for my department and left us a brand new demo PDP (4.5" Full Size).

Prior to today, I had very little interest in the gun. After tearing one apart and shooting one today I must say I'm somewhat enamored by it. The factory trigger is simply outstanding.

I shot it side by side with my P320 (GGI shoe) and my buddy's FN 509 (Apex trigger) and I must say I walked away digging the Walther PDP more.

I'm still waiting for optics plates from Walther (they said it would be a couple weeks), but simply shooting with irons I'm quite impressed.

So my question is, for those that have been using the PDP for a bit, would it hold up to being a general issue service pistol for an entire department or should it be just an authorized gun among many? Any repeat issues that have arisen with the platform?

[ssb]

I have some PDP experience but I am neither a cop nor do I administer a large LE agency/have experience maintaining a fleet of duty guns. These are just some ramblings of mine based on my sample of one. My sample of one was reliable during the time I had it when using Walther mags, though Walther’s complete flop with the full size mags at release limited my round counts early on. TP9 mags procured as a substitute for OEM when OEM was unavailable did induce a few feeding issues, but that will not be an issue for you I assume.

I think of the PDP as a good gun that’s a bit too late for what it’s intended for. Walther pushed it to be a serious contender in the 9mm duty gun market, and it has all the potential in the world to be that - three to five years after everybody bought new 9mm handguns. They’re also probably not the first, second, or third name that comes to an LE administration’s mind when “buy new guns” is the topic. As a result, it’s probably always going to be a bit of a snowflake gun for parts and holsters.

The trigger is quite nice at first. Trigger degradation over time has been reported as an issue and is something I experienced. Specifically, mine developed a hitch during the break and pretravel became a bit grittier. Nothing unusable by any means, but the trigger starts out at the best it’ll be rather than improving with time and use. I will also say that I felt the trigger on my sample was awfully light - I don’t “manage people” on a day to day basis with my guns, but it’s something I could foresee being a potential issue, particularly when transitioning from a DA pistol or even a Glock with its harder, more defined wall.

Mags were an issue at first, but a follower change appears to have sorted that out.

Have they added recoil lugs to the optics cut on current production duty-type slides yet? Their new gamer model has them, which seems to me to be a tacit admission that they were something that should have been present from the start. I would personally want them on an optics gun - relying on small screws and sloppy plate fit does not give me a ton of confidence over the long term.

My factory DPP plate fit fairly loosely in the cut but presented no issue in limited live fire. I transitioned to a Holosun 509T within about 500 rounds. CHPWS is available as an alternative plate option, with all they entail. My CHPWS plate loosened twice - I had to significantly exceed factory torque spec to get it to stay put.

My understanding is that U.S. Duty Gear is your only current option for serious retention holsters. That’s not a judgment on their quality, but it may necessitate a change from what your officers are currently using.

[stinx]

I was at a pistol mounted optics class last month. During the class several of the instructors where carrying PDP'S. several were carrying the guns in Safariland holsters. Safariland is now making holsters for the PDP. The instructor I spoke to stated the he is planning on transitioning his entire department to PDP with Trijicon RMR and Streamlight TlR 7 lights. He said everyone who shot the gun liked it a great deal. YMMV

[claymore504]

I am not an LEO, but figured I would throw my thoughts in. I know as a department, you are investing in the gun, but also support from the company down the road. It seems Walther is serious about getting this pistol in duty holsters and supporting the departments that choose it. I am not aware of any departments that are running the PDP. I know Brevard County (Florida) switched to the PPQM2 about 2 years ago. Maybe it would be worth contacting them and asking how Walther has been treating them these past two years?

[GJM]

SSB already provided lots of good information. There is an issue with a dead trigger that may or may not be a consideration.

https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/houston-we-have-a-problem.6946/

I have a Safariland holster for the PDP, optic and TLR-7. It is the newer 7TS style as opposed to the 6390 construction. Lots to like about the PDP, but the flat on the beaver tail batters the base of my thumb.

You would have to be pretty brave to pick a PDP over a Glock 45 for widespread department adoption.

[TheNewbie]

What is the advantage of the Walter over the P320, Glock or S&W?


Is the Walter any less/more complex then the P320?


It’s pretty neat that they are being so supportive and actually trying to sell their product vs having agency adoption as an after thought.


Do you think your agencies previous experience with a Walther type firearm (SW99 right?) hurt Walther’s chances?

[GJM]

What is the advantage of the Walter over the P320, Glock or S&W?


Is the Walter any less/more complex then the P320?


It’s pretty neat that they are being so supportive and actually trying to sell their product vs having agency adoption as an after thought.


Do you think your agencies previous experience with a Walther type firearm (SW99 right?) hurt Walther’s chances?

The PDP was designed around being an optics platform, as opposed to being modified for optics. Now whether the initial optics mounting design was a good one is open to debate, and possibly mute given the latest version of it. The Walther also has an excellent trigger, excellent texturing, excellent accuracy, and uses reliable MecGar magazines.

[Kirk]

The Walther also has an excellent trigger, excellent texturing, excellent accuracy, and uses reliable MecGar magazines.

Yep, totally agree. Did they ever fix the trigger degradation issue? I believe it was related to the sear in the early production models many of us here bought, but I can’t recall the specifics. I’m really, really tempted to pickup a PDP Pro when they are released with the supposed improvements to the optic mounting system.

As far as the original post, I’m utterly unqualified to give any kind of thoughts whatsoever on a duty or self-defense gun.

[Archer1440]

Unfortunately, Walther appears to have taken a page from the SIG product development manual with some aspects of the PDP.

Major redesign of the optics interface, a trigger that (sometimes?) gets worse with use (unlike most other striker triggers) and “fixing” the OOB dead trigger issue in upcoming iterations, are not a good look for the early adopters.

I called this over a year ago.



Of course, most people would buy anything that would, by itself, improve performance by 5-7%.

However, in my experience things like that don’t come along too often. We’ll see if the new shiny lives up to the hype that appears to be building. And, my “wait one or more years after introduction of shiny new pistol rule” still applies here. It has served me extremely well in the past, after all.

I won’t deny that the PDP points great for me, and shoots well for me, but rolling improvements to fundamentals that should have been in the box in the first place are annoying.

[AMC]

One of the guys in my office bought a PDP, and is quite enamored with it. So much so that he's selling all his other pistols and consolidating on the PDP design for everything. Now....keep in mind this is a pattern, and the "gun of the year" thing is very real with him. Several of us have gotten good deals on 320s, M&P 2.0s, HKs, etc.....as the fickle fondness fades. That said, I did play around with it a bit. Trigger is super nice....maybe too nice in fact
Grip texture is good, modularity for different hand sizes is good.

All of it is a moot point for us. After 3+ years of testing and evaluating different guns, lights and holsters, and getting a large purchase order approved by my agency's Fiscal Division, we hit a brick wall. All POs over $10,000 go to the independent Office of Contract Administration for competitive bid and legal compliance. They just told us "Hey....you can't just pick your favorite gun. You have to solicit bids from the manufacturers, get samples, run tests....". When it was pointed out we ran evaluations for the last 3 years, and that by city law we CAN'T sicit bids from the manufacturers, and they still said no....it became apparent that we aren't getting guns. Our choices are in the hands of a very "woke" young workforce at this agency who literally, when a uniformed officer enters their building, stand up with hands over their head and say "Hands up! Don't shoot!"

So we'll either end up with HI Points at some point, or we're going to Personally owned weapons. Then its a question of how broad should your roster be. Armorer support is a real thing.....

[G19Fan]

One of the guys in my office bought a PDP, and is quite enamored with it. So much so that he's selling all his other pistols and consolidating on the PDP design for everything. Now....keep in mind this is a pattern, and the "gun of the year" thing is very real with him. Several of us have gotten good deals on 320s, M&P 2.0s, HKs, etc.....as the fickle fondness fades. That said, I did play around with it a bit. Trigger is super nice....maybe too nice in fact
Grip texture is good, modularity for different hand sizes is good.

All of it is a moot point for us. After 3+ years of testing and evaluating different guns, lights and holsters, and getting a large purchase order approved by my agency's Fiscal Division, we hit a brick wall. All POs over $10,000 go to the independent Office of Contract Administration for competitive bid and legal compliance. They just told us "Hey....you can't just pick your favorite gun. You have to solicit bids from the manufacturers, get samples, run tests....". When it was pointed out we ran evaluations for the last 3 years, and that by city law we CAN'T sicit bids from the manufacturers, and they still said no....it became apparent that we aren't getting guns. Our choices are in the hands of a very "woke" young workforce at this agency who literally, when a uniformed officer enters their building, stand up with hands over their head and say "Hands up! Don't shoot!"

So we'll either end up with HI Points at some point, or we're going to Personally owned weapons. Then its a question of how broad should your roster be. Armorer support is a real thing.....

If you are in California I feel for you. A couple of very close friends are officers that way

[mrozowjj]

I don't think much internally has changed in the PDP vs the PPQ. Barrels, magazines, triggers I think are all the same.

If this is true (and if I am wrong on this someone please correct me) then whatever has been said about the PPQ would hold true for the PDP.

The PDP has a different slide designed from the ground up to be a red dot platform and it takes a Glock iron sights which makes it easier to find sights for it. Other than that and the texture on the frame it's basically a PPQ. I liked the PPQ though so I don't see any problems with it at all. It is a bit top heavy feeling compared to a CZ or a Glock but nothing that ever bothered me. I had a PPQ I ran 1500 through in a USPSA season with zero issues.

That said if you're getting one get the 2.0 mounting system. The first gen was just a flat cut on the slide and the plate was held onto the gun with nothing more than screws. Walther said there was nothing wrong with it but still they updated it anyway to something that seems a bit more robust.

https://waltherarms.com/2021/03/15/walther-pdp-optic-plate-mounting-system-2/

[Archer1440]

If we accept what they literally say, then the reason for the redesign is “to accept longer optics”.

OK, I will give them benefit of the doubt. (Bold added to quote below)


In addition to the new optic longer channel, this new Walther PDP Optic Plate Mounting System (2.0) features a lug design as well as the mounting screws identical to the original version. This new design is not the result of any failure or inadequacy on the part of the first generation of optic mounting system. The original optic plate mounting system has been thoroughly and rigorously tested and has resulted in zero failures.

Zero failures? That would be quite remarkable if true.

[GJM]

If we accept what they literally say, then the reason for the redesign is “to accept longer optics”.

OK, I will give them benefit of the doubt. (Bold added to quote below)



Zero failures? That would be quite remarkable if true.

Of course they redesigned it to accept longer optics, as everyone uses a Romeo 3 Max on their defense gun.

[AJLooch]

I am a big fan of the PDP and in the beginning was a bit skeptical, but all my qualms were unfounded. I currently have 4 PDP’s (3 full size 4”, 4.5”, 5” and a 4” Compact). Two guns have 509t’s with CHPWS Plates and 1 508t and 1 RMR06 Type 2 both on Factory Walther Plates. Lowest Round count 1200 rounds (Compact with RMR) Highest round count 3900 rounds (4.5 Fullsize with 509t). None of the optics have loosened or shifted and the triggers once settled in have remained the same after 1000 rounds or so and sone dry fire. Haven’t had any reliability issues even with lighter reloads, although some of the lighter stuff does impact the front of the optic/lense.

[wvincent]

Comment and a question.

are in the hands of a very "woke" young workforce at this agency who literally, when a uniformed officer enters their building, stand up with hands over their head and say "Hands up! Don't shoot!"
Comment: No offense to you, but that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have read this year, I realize its only April, but.....

So we'll either end up with HI Points at some point, or we're going to Personally owned weapons. Then its a question of how broad should your roster be. Armorer support is a real thing.....

Question: If you go to POW's, and an officers weapon gets tied up in evidence, who is on the hook for providing him a duty weapon when he returns to work?