Our portable power station thread

[LittleLebowski]

This is to discuss the burgeoning portable power station market. These things are essentially huge portable power banks/charging stations with a plethora (@blues) of ways to use them from 110v to USBC to even wireless charging. Don’t buy one that isn’t solar charging capable.

Probably the class leader/best brand name is Jackery. However, there’s many worthy competitors. I bought the BLUETTI EB70S with the BLUETTI 100w portable and folding solar panel (https://www.amazon.com/BLUETTI-Portable-Foldable-Generator-Emergency/dp/B09G5TFLNR/), mainly because at the time (right now there is a $70 off coupon, watch for deals!), Amazon was running a $130 coupon on it. Also, the BLUETTI uses LiFePo4 (LFP) batteries which have some desirable traits over the competitors.

Anyway, I think these things are gonna be more and more commonplace as time goes on. They can be very handy and don’t take up a lot of room.

[Jim Watson]

Looks like it would keep you phone charged, computer on, a LED lamp. What else would it support?

[LittleLebowski]

Looks like it would keep you phone charged, computer on, a LED lamp. What else would it support?

Well, if you look at the capacity and do a little math, it all depends, but you have to do a little investigation for yourself based upon your needs. It’s all about the math. It certainly can do a lot more than what you referenced.

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[JohnO]

Why did I read that picture and find the most important device last (bottom right), the coffee maker?

[whomever]

Looks like it would keep you phone charged, computer on, a LED lamp. What else would it support?

Like LL sez, you have to do the math. We have a Jackery 240, and a waaaaay off grid cabin. We used it to charge phones, etc, and also to charge all the cordless tool batteries building the cabin (drill, driver, chainsaw, circular saw). It wasn't enough watts to do the compressor (for nail gun) or chopsaw, so we ran a generator for those. It was really, really nice to not have to run the generator full time, or even for the couple of hours it takes to recharge the cordless batteries.

'Will it run' can be complicated. When the cabin was complete we installed a 100AH battery, 330W solar panel, 1000W inverter setup. But it trips off line trying to start the supposedly 600W shop vac.

But our 3000W 24V inverter happily runs the nominal 1500W chop saw. I dunno if there is a general way to answer the 'will it run' question, because starting surges and overload capacity are hard to determine accurately.

This is all assuming long days in summer. What it takes to run a freezer through days of winter storm is another discussion.

[LittleLebowski]

This is all assuming long days in summer. What it takes to run a freezer through days of winter storm is another discussion.

Not cold enough to simply put your frozen goods outside?

[whomever]

Not cold enough to simply put your frozen goods outside?

If we were there full time, sure. Or just run the genny for a long cloudy spell.

The cabin is ski-in, so we try to stock it in the fall with most everything we need over a winter, so we can ski in with daypacks. So potentially a freezer full of food. If everything lined up wrong ... cloudy/stormy for long enough, then a warm few days - you could lose the whole freezer's worth. That would suck. It's worth oversizing it some relative to a place where you lived and you could just run a generator for the 3 sigma storm.

[awp_101]

Why did I read that picture and find the most important device last (bottom right), the coffee maker?
Because you’re a right thinking human being, same as myself.

We’ve got one of the Jackery models and I’m on the lookout for a deal on the solar charger panels. They were on sale at Amazon for a while but I screwed around and missed out (SAMO? FAMO?).

We’ve mainly used it to charge phones and other backup battery packs as part of it’s yearly discharge but my wife did have to use it for 3-4 hours with no issues one afternoon when the power went out. She used it to power the modem, router and her laptop so she could continue working until the power came back that evening.

[LittleLebowski]

Because you’re a right thinking human being, same as myself.

We’ve got one of the Jackery models and I’m on the lookout for a deal on the solar charger panels. They were on sale at Amazon for a while but I screwed around and missed out (SAMO? FAMO?).

We’ve mainly used it to charge phones and other backup battery packs as part of it’s yearly discharge but my wife did have to use it for 3-4 hours with no issues one afternoon when the power went out. She used it to power the modem, router and her laptop so she could continue working until the power came back that evening.

Aren’t Jackery panels proprietary?

[Pacioli]

Why did I read that picture and find the most important device last (bottom right), the coffee maker?

The reason I had the same reaction was becuase I live in hurricane country. I can take days of no A/C in hot, humid weather. But please can I just have a cup of coffee when I get up.

[awp_101]

Aren’t Jackery panels proprietary?
Sort of but not really if that makes sense. They use a proprietary 8mm connector but there are adapters you can use to get around that: Which Solar Panels Are Compatible With The Jackery Explorer? (https://thecampingnerd.com/solar-panels-compatible-jackery-explorer/)

And straight from the Jackery FAQ (https://www.jackery.com/pages/faq):



Jackery power stations can be charged with a third-party brand solar panel. You must match the plug size and input voltage of the Jackery Power Station you are trying to charge.

For example, third party solar panels for the Explorer 1000 should have the following specs:

1. The voltage must be between 12-30V

2. The plug connection size: Outer diameter 7.9mm, inner diameter 5.5mm, inner needle diameter 0.9mm (empty)

3. Note: We can't, however, recommend other brand products to recharge your Jackery power station. As we can't guarantee the safety and quality of those products or provide after-sale service for them. It is highly recommended that you purchase the matching Jackery SolarSaga solar panel(s) for your Jackery Explorer.

If you have any more questions, please reach out to us via hello@Jackery.com or Amazon. We will get back to you within 24 hours on business days, and we'll be more than happy to help.

[whomever]

Aren’t Jackery panels proprietary?


We charge ours (240) with a 50W panel:

https://www.renogy.com/50-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-solar-panel/

with this adapter cable:

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZPF51N6

(The 8mm plug isn't a Jackery proprietary thing, it's a pretty common power plug style)

=========================
Take the following with a grain of salt ... this is from dim memory of reading reviews.

-As mentioned, you have to watch for ac panel voltage restrictions...if your panel puts 40V into a max 30V device magic smoke escapes
-max amperage/wattage, within limits, may or may not matter:
a)devices like the jackery that have a single input for cigarette lighter and solar panel charging ***should*** have some kind of current limiting circuit on the input, because your cigarette lighter will ***usually*** supply however many amps the battery will supply (lots!!) until the car's fuse blows. So you can ***probably*** connect a larger than spec wattage panel, and the Jackery will limit the input current if needed (within reason ... don't connect it to your welder).
b)devices with separate inputs for the cigarette lighter and solar panel input don't necessarily need to limit the current fro the panel; they may just rely on you not connecting too large of a panel. YMMV.

Why would you want to connect an oversize panel? Because if the device can accept 50W, and you connect a 50W panel, you will only see 50W of charge in perfect conditions. On, say, a cloudy day the 50W panel might only produce 10W, while a 100W panel would produce 20W, so there may be an advantage to larger panels in non-optimal conditions .... which is most of the time :-)

related discussion:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/jackery-explorer-240-quietly-got-an-input-upgrade-now-80w.1328/

[whomever]

Oooops, 'watch for ac panel voltage restrictions' should be 'watch for max panel voltage restrictions'.

[LittleLebowski]

Home testing of my BLUETTI EB70S with 100w panel (https://amzn.to/3L88NeC) powering my ICECO 68.6 portable fridge ( [url=https://amzn.to/3LhYGnB[/url). The ICECO was at room temp, the EB70S was at full charge. The ICECO is set to fridge/freezer and in the shade, but not in a climate controlled environment. The panels are facing southwest, best direction for this position. We shall see if the EB70S can handle this load all day and night. I realize it’s using more than it’s getting in from solar, but I expect more solar watts input as the day goes on and hopefully once the ICECO cools down, it will use less power.

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[LittleLebowski]

Since posting the start the ICECO cooled down to below freezing! I’m impressed. I need to read the manual,I thought I had it set on freezer and fridge mode.

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[LittleLebowski]

Getting enough sunlight now.

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[frozentundra]

The best, most up to date resource I've ever found for batteries and solar power is Will Prowse. On his YouTube channel he takes apart batteries and solar generators, and he analyses the engineering and components before running performance tests. On his DIY forum he has schematic diagrams and parts lists for various applications. This industry is moving fast and the battery cells, solar products and importers are constantly changing. He seems to stay on top of it in real time.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q YouTube Channel

https://diysolarforum.com/members/will-prowse.1/ His DIY solar power forum.

I haven't spent time on the interactive part of the forum, but I think these could be the solar power analog of Pistol-Training.com and Pistol-Forum.com. Prowse's resources will help you size and design a personalized system for your needs. I would be checking his reviews, teardowns, and recommendations before buying anything in this space.

[LittleLebowski]

The best, most up to date resource I've ever found for batteries and solar power is Will Prowse. On his YouTube channel he takes apart batteries and solar generators, and he analyses the engineering and components before running performance tests. On his DIY forum he has schematic diagrams and parts lists for various applications. This industry is moving fast and the battery cells, solar products and importers are constantly changing. He seems to stay on top of it in real time.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q YouTube Channel

https://diysolarforum.com/members/will-prowse.1/ His DIY solar power forum.

I haven't spent time on the interactive part of the forum, but I think these could be the solar power analog of Pistol-Training.com and Pistol-Forum.com. Prowse's resources will help you size and design a personalized system for your needs. I would be checking his reviews, teardowns, and recommendations before buying anything in this space.

Absolutely. I’m learning tons from Will and appreciate his integrity, experience, and intelligence.

For those that care (think it’s just me), the BLUETTI looks like it will have no problem keeping the Iceco fridge running tonight, with plenty of power leftover.

[LittleLebowski]

Morning update. The solar generator is at about 50% battery and it’s getting a slight charge because it’s overcast right now. Let’s see if it makes it another day.

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[Tensaw]

Time to bump this bad boy back to the top!

I posted yesterday in the ICE Generator thread re: looking at a power station for running electronics (router, laptops, cell phones) during a power outage. There, I was reminded that this thread existed. So,....

So I've gone from living in rural, but not remote, hurricane country where there is a very real threat of widespread outages for days/weeks from spring to fall; to living in a somewhat remote area where the main outage threat is in the winter due to storms. But these storms cause mostly isolated outages lasting a few days, typically. We can also have the occasional outage any time during the year just because a tree falls off a hillside on to a power line. As noted in the other thread, we just got up and running on good, fast internet via Starlink (as opposed to Hughesnet which was a complete dog), and so we now have very decent wifi calling. Thus, we will likely drop our landline phone service in the next little bit. All this militates for a pure sine system to keep the Starlink router running as that would be our only link to comms to the outside world (either that, or head toward town to find a cell signal).

I had briefly contemplated cobbling together my own power station for use during truck camping excursions, but ditched that idea when I got to thinking about having to build a panel for outputs. Too, I did not dig very deep on capacity of a DIY system compared to the turnkey power station. But apparently I vapor-locked too soon on that. Last night a looked at couple of things a little more.

Somebody feel free to check me up on this. I can get this 100aH battery (https://www.renogy.com/deep-cycle-agm-battery-12-volt-100ah/) and this 700W inverter (https://www.renogy.com/700w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter/) for $325 (plus shipping) and have the equivalent of a 1200wH power station - those things seem to run in the $1,000 range. The plan would be to use my plain Jane battery charger to keep it topped off for outages and recharge the battery either off a generator and/or this China Freight solar panel system (https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt-amorphous-solar-panel-kit-63585.html?_br_psugg_q=solar+panel) that I have had for years but have never used. Again, this is for clean power to run small electronics for a relatively short period of time. A portable gas generator would run the rest of the house (fridge, water heater, well pump, etc.) through a transfer switch. Am I missing anything?

I know this isn't as sporty as a Bluetti, but it is more than double the capacity of the 500wH systems I was looking at for a lot less money. Could I check the remaining battery capacity with a multimeter? I have one, but am quite ignorant in its use.

[whomever]

but it is more than double the capacity of the 500wH systems I was looking at for a lot less money.

A '500wH' lithium (LiPo or conventional) system will actually supply 500wH, i.e. you can discharge to 0% many times without problems.

It's different for lead acid batteries. They have a curve of discharge depth vs battery lifetime. It gets really steep below 50% discharge, as in you might only get to do that a handful of times. So generally people derate lead acid batteries by at least 50%, so your 100AH 12V battery really has only 12*100*0.5=600wH capacity. And even discharging to 50% exacts a fairly steep price in battery lifetime.

>Could I check the remaining battery capacity with a multimeter? I have one, but am quite ignorant in its use.

There are curves of battery voltage vs state of charge, but they depend a lot on the battery temperature etc, and are pretty flat.

One of these will remove the guesswork, plus lets you see watts in and out:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RP5B5P7

=============

An aside on solar panels, battery voltage, panel voltage, and solar controllers. N.b. I'm not much of an expert; this is just my experience. Corrections from resident EE's welcome.

My fist solar dabble was tiny: a 36aH 12V gel cell, the cheapest PWM controller off amazon, and a 20W panel. In summer, you could keep your phone charged with it. In winter, it would barely keep up with the self discharge.

That panel was a nominal 12V panel, meaning it could put out a max of about 20V in full sun. It needed a fair amount of sun to even produce the 14 or so volts you need to charge a battery. Moreover, with a PWM controller, if the battery voltage is 12.5V, and the PWM controller connects the panel to the battery, and the battery pulls the panel voltage down to 12.5V, which is a point on the panel volts/watts curve where the panel isn't producing a lot of watts. This notion - that the battery sets the panel working voltage - took me a while to grasp.

I upgraded to a 50W panel and now you could pretty reliably harvest enough watts to keep a phone charged :-)

Our next foray was a small Jackery with an identical 50W panel. The Jackery has an MPPT controller, and that makes a huge difference. We could not only charge phones but power tool batteries etc when building the cabin. That's still our portable setup.

The next step was a small installation for the cabin - a 100AH 12V gel battery, a 330W panel (that can go as high as 40V in full sun) and a Renogy MPPT controller.
The panel is mounted vertically - a tradeoff to get watts even when unattended in winter (because snow doesn't stick). The combination of the high panel voltage (meaning their is enough voltage to charge the battery even at low light levels) and the MPPT controller means we not only get 250+ watts in full sun (not 330, because of the vertical mount), but we get 10 or 20 watts even when the sun isn't shining directly on the panel at all. All those hours of 10 or 20 or 40 watts adds up, particularly on cloudy days. $200 battery + $150 inverter + $150 controller + $300 panel + ??? in cables, fuses, yadda. Copper adds up. Plus the battery meter, 12V sockets, etc. N.b. if you don't have a local source for panels the shipping can be a problem. In that case you might want to run some of the free-amazon-shippable 100W ones in series.

The point being is that the little details, like panel OCV (open circuit voltage), can matter a lot. You care about that and the max input voltage of your controller, etc.

[Tensaw]

Well,... shucks... So if I were to upgrade to a 50aH lithium battery for $300 (https://www.renogy.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-12-volt-50-ah/) (which should work out to ~600wH), by the time I add on the inverter, I am well into the price range of a 500wH power station - with all the little niceties that go with that. So, whomever that was extremely helpful and saved me from making a spendy little mistake. You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman! Cheers!

[whomever]

Well,... shucks... So if I were to upgrade to a 50aH lithium battery for $300 (https://www.renogy.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-12-volt-50-ah/) (which should work out to ~600wH), by the time I add on the inverter, I am well into the price range of a 500wH power station - with all the little niceties that go with that. So, whomever that was extremely helpful and saved me from making a spendy little mistake. You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman! Cheers!


There are a lot of sketchy cheap LiPo batteries out there, but I think Will Prowse took one of these apart and said it was good quality:

https://www.weizeus.com/collections/weize-lifepo4-battery-lithium-phosphate-li-fe-po4-cells/products/weize-12v-50ah-640wh-lifepo4-lithium-battery-2000-deep-cycles-smart-bms

(but go to his channel and verify. Specifically, I think he did one of the 100AH ones from that company. Anyway, cheaper than renogy)

My 2 cents is that the all-in-one units - Bluetti, Jackery, ..., are the bomb if you need portability. If it is a cabin install, though, I'd rather have discrete components even for the same price. One reason is that you can replace a failed component instead of the whole unit. Another is that you can upgrade or add components ... e.g. your wife says she can't live without a microwave. Microwaves don't need a huge install because they only run a few minutes a day, but they do need a big enough inverter. So you can just add a second inverter. Or a bigger battery, or whatever. You do need to be comfortable with the wiring and so on, obviously.

That's all different when you want to throw something in the truck and go camping; then the portability rocks.


>You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman!

I vociferously deny that!

[SeriousStudent]

This is a really helpful thread, I appreciate all the input.