2022: New Rule Book

[Zincwarrior]

Carrying over from the Appendix Carry thread. New rules have been released. Go past the long in page.
https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/combined_comparison.pdf
https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/IDPA-2022-Rulebook-Update-deck.pdf


My thoughts:
Rules have been clarified specifically permitting re-engagement of targets, no movement required, and that you can drop your mags on the table if you stay at the table are welcome. Additionally clarification that tac reloads can drop into your shoot me first pocket.

15 round for SSP is good I guess. I am a simple person and like that its in line with Production.

As an SO, someone needs to show me the proper way to holster an Appendix Carry as I am not familiar with it. The only time I saw one was an outlaw type match with a girl, which was actually a bit awkward for grandpa me as she didn't have a Tshirt underneath.

Rule limits fault line distance - no longer to infinity. Good for SOing, less options for competition, but its fine.

[Sal Picante]

Carrying over from the Appendix Carry thread. New rules have been released. Go past the long in page.
https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/combined_comparison.pdf
https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/IDPA-2022-Rulebook-Update-deck.pdf


My thoughts:
Rules have been clarified specifically permitting re-engagement of targets, no movement required, and that you can drop your mags on the table if you stay at the table are welcome. Additionally clarification that tac reloads can drop into your shoot me first pocket.

15 round for SSP is good I guess. I am a simple person and like that its in line with Production.

As an SO, someone needs to show me the proper way to holster an Appendix Carry as I am not familiar with it. The only time I saw one was an outlaw type match with a girl, which was actually a bit awkward for grandpa me as she didn't have a Tshirt underneath.

Rule limits fault line distance - no longer to infinity. Good for SOing, less options for competition, but its fine.

I'm still reading... I kinda like the SSP 15rd limit: It is a game and most stages will test a reload.

I'm glad that magazine carrier placement rules are relaxed now.

I'm curious about the limits/implementation of fault line rules.

We've got a good AC and a good local club here in Lakeland, FL - I'm sure the matches will reflect the excitement.

[Craig_AR]

...As an SO, someone needs to show me the proper way to holster an Appendix Carry as I am not familiar with it. The only time I saw one was an outlaw type match with a girl, which was actually a bit awkward for grandpa me as she didn't have a Tshirt underneath.
...

See

How To Safely Holster And Unholster Appendix Carry | Active Self Protection Extra (https://youtu.be/rkVLV5Dp8Y4)

[CraigS]

I first read through the 2022 changes review and saw laser/lights allowed. I shoot a Beretta 92 in SSP so I thought wow, 15 rnds, and a laser/light, this will be different. But then I went to the entire rules link and found mention of a factory built-in laser but nothing else. The index gives a page reference for light and a different page reference for laser but I found nothing on either page. I shoot two night matches each fall and my CTC laser/light combination is fantastic. I wouldn't mind the extra weight at all even when not using light or laser. I have a match this Saturday so I will take some extra ammo in case they allow 15 rnds.

[Jim Watson]

I have a match this Saturday so I will take some extra ammo in case they allow 15 rnds.

New rules take effect 1 June.
Not saying what your Local might do.

You don't need many extra. The maximum rounds per string is still 18, although I think we will see more 17-18 round stages so SSP has to reload, too.

[CraigS]

...
The maximum rounds per string is still 18, although I think we will see more 17-18 round stages so SSP has to reload, too.
Yes I was thinking that it seems a little unfair that only one class has the expanded max rnds per mag. I know that officially, each class competes just w/ itself, but at our small 40-80 shooters matches, I usually just look at my overall finish position. Oh well maybe I will move up a little. Also I guess that they can limit us in the individual stage setup info.

[Zincwarrior]

Yes I was thinking that it seems a little unfair that only one class has the expanded max rnds per mag. I know that officially, each class competes just w/ itself, but at our small 40-80 shooters matches, I usually just look at my overall finish position. Oh well maybe I will move up a little. Also I guess that they can limit us in the individual stage setup info.

I am sure the idea is to make SSP more attractive again. I wonder if Wilson is coming out with new SSP type pistols in the near term...

I think the consensus so far is that lights are permitted on SSP.

I wonder if this will give USPSA some pressure to go to 15 for Production also.

[CraigS]

I am sure the idea is to make SSP more attractive again. I wonder if Wilson is coming out with new SSP type pistols in the near term...

You a cynical guy. Ha, ha,. They do have some 320 frames/grips I think.

[Zincwarrior]

You a cynical guy. Ha, ha,. They do have some 320 frames/grips I think.

Looked up on lark: January 2022 :cool:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-wilson-combat-sfx9-hc-3-25-solid-frame-sub-compact/

15 rounder, can take WMLs, not CO sight ready :)

[TNK]

I like the new rulebook because it bumps the capacity for Compact Carry Pistol (CCP) to 10 rounds. The change has encouraged me to start participating in this division with my Beretta PX4 Compact Carry.

Keep in mind that one of the issues of IDPA is that local clubs often consider the rulebook a suggestion. The IDPA HQ is not quick to address this issue, and the Area Coordinators are out of touch with the local clubs because they reside far away from everything. So, a new rulebook, it is a nice suggestion. If you never shoot a match above the club level, as I do, there is a chance the new rules will not be taken seriously. If you are someone who goes to larger matches that are closer to IDPA HQ in command and control, then it will behoove you to know the new book well. You are on your own. No one is going to help you.

[Jim Watson]

Yes I was thinking that it seems a little unfair that only one class has the expanded max rnds per mag.

I presume that they do not want to obsolete my Colt single stack ESP.
If they did, well, I have a 2011 USPSA Limited gun I could use, but I would not be happy to retire my old friends.

[CraigS]

Looked up on lark: January 2022 :cool:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-wilson-combat-sfx9-hc-3-25-solid-frame-sub-compact/

15 rounder, can take WMLs, not CO sight ready :)
I read that article on the SFX9 and was thinking it is a nice pistol, a well thought out design. Then I got to the price. Whoa, they sure think a lot of it themselves don't they?

[Mirolynmonbro]

Looked up on lark: January 2022 :cool:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-wilson-combat-sfx9-hc-3-25-solid-frame-sub-compact/

15 rounder, can take WMLs, not CO sight ready :)

Looks like a SAO, so not SSP legal 👎

[Zincwarrior]

Looks like a SAO, so not SSP legal 👎
Is it, that is both interesting and blows my theory. :cool:

Again I just scanned the rulebook changes, but not really seeing anything I dislike in the changes. Eventually they will need to break CO into CO/SSP and CO/CCP because thats increasingly the future.

[Noah]

So for me, a simpleton... does CO follow SSP rules or is it it's own animal? Is CO 10 or 15 rounds now? Are WMLs allowed now?

Neither is a deal breaker to me compared to the allowing of appendix carry. Prior to this I've only shot IDPA matches so local they didn't care that I shot appendix with a WML as long as I gave my $10 and helped paste targets. Kinda moving away from the WML anyway.

[Amp]

I like the fault line rule clarification that they don't extend up range and a penalty will now be given for stepping past the end of a fault line if it exposes the shooter to unengaged targets. I've pushed for that to be fixed ever since we started using fault lines.

[Amp]

Just got this from my area coordinator:

2022 IDPA Rulebook Q&A, 3/15/22

Can we start using the new rules now? (Yes)

When will sanctioned matches start using the new rules? (Each sanctioned match can choose to use the old or new rules before June 1. Please see the IDPA Match listings, practiscore, and other information to determine which ones will use old or new rules.)

Are ranges allowed to restrict appendix carry holsters at IDPA Matches? (Yes, if the range safety rule restricts appendix carry holsters, but you must include the notification in all match notices and advertisements. It doesn’t matter what tier of match.)

Can any Division Firearm have a Weapon Mounted Light? (Yes)
For adding a light or laser on your gun, does it still have to fit in the box and make weight? (Yes, it must fit the box and make weight and be a 60 lumens light with no additional weight added)

If the shooter uses a WML is it required to stay on the firearm for all stages or can it be put on / off at will. (No, it must stay on the firearm for all stages at a match)

Dropping an empty mag with a round in the chamber will not get a PE any longer.

Will printed copies of rulebook be available on IDPA website? (No, but it’s easy enough to take it to the local Kinkos/Staples and get it printed)

Are active lasers (PCC / CO) allowed to be turned on before the start signal (No, flashlight rules apply)

Can we still complete a stage with a mag in hand that we will not reuse?. (Yes)

Now that the fault lines don’t extend uprange, is it a penalty for a shooter to step past the back end of the stick? (Generally, yes, if the shooter is exposed to an unengaged target)

Can we place a fault line or other object to restrict a shooter from shooting behind the end of the fault line? (Yes, but you cannot create a shooting box. It can be a short fault line that creates a “corner.” Also, if you have a 8 foot fault line but you want to keep the shooter to less than 5 feet, you can place the rear fault line at 5 feet. We recommend using an object such as a barrel or chair for the rear limit.)

Must the shooter be within the length of the fault line to engage target(s) from the cover position the fault line indicates? (Yes, unless restricted by an object or a rear fault line)

Does a three foot fault line still allow a shooter to use a distance of 8 feet? (No)

If you have a wall and it cannot be used as a vision barrier then do all walls require a fault line. ? (No, only shooting positions of cover must have a fault line.)

What kinds of materials can I use for a vision barrier? (Barrels, canvas, fake trees, hanging sheets, vehicles, tires, etc)

Can a SSP firearm have a replacement barrel of a different color? (Yes, such as stainless steel).

How does this affect the SO and CSO tests? Changed? If not when? What about new SOI training deck? (IDPA HQ is working on new curriculum and will announce the new continuing education program which will include a powerpoint presentation for every Safety Officer)

Classifications no longer expire, although we encourage members to shoot one each year. The only exception is that for a TIer-5 match you must have shot a classifier within the previous year.

The 3/4 dowel is no longer required.

RE: 6.3.5 Can targets engaged thru a window less than 24” wide be in the open? (The rule says that a window larger than 24” MUST use a fault line, but a window less than 24” can either be in the open or using a fault line, a position of cover.)

8.5.1.12 What is the butt of handgun. (The highest point of the backstrap when holstered)

RE: 4.12.1.3. Can tuxedo and iron maiden style targets still be used in “standards” stages? (Yes, standards only)

In order to force head shots, that can be specified in the COF instead of painting the body black.
A target can be painted up to 50% black for hard cover in horizontal, vertical, or diagonal fashion for scenario stages. It may be painted in other ways for standard stages.

Does appendix draw require concealment? (Yes)

[Zincwarrior]

If no dowel does that mean we can wear two part belts?

[Amp]

Belts still have to go thru belt loops on the pants.

[Zincwarrior]

thanks

[JSGlock34]

So...I think this'll be my rig for this season...
86197

[CraigS]

Belts still have to go thru belt loops on the pants.
But you can still skip two loops.
8.4 Belts
Belts may be no wider than 1-3/4 inches or thicker than 5/16 inches and must pass through a minimum of all but two of
the pant loops.

[Amp]

More updates from my area coordinator:

Am I required to have a separate handheld flashlight if I have a Weapon Mounted Light? (No)

3.2.3.2 can require specified head and body shots. This is not the same as dividing a target into 2 separate scoring zones, as 4.10.4 restricts. 4.10.4 refers to dividing a down zero into two zones.

Cover during reloads. A vision barrier does not provide cover during reloads and is the same as being in the open. You may not leave cover with an unloaded gun (or while reloading) if you would be exposed to an unengaged target (as if the vision barrier was not there.) However, once you take one shot at the surprise or concealed targets, you may reload in front of unengaged targets as you would in the open.

Cover during reloads: You may not leave cover using the re-engagement rule and then reload while traversing concealment. The key part of the rule is if you “run dry” in the open. The shooter didn’t run dry while moving to address open targets.

What if I run empty while behind cover, can I still leave and perform a reload on the move, as long as I complete it behind cover OR concealment as long as I do not become “exposed” to an unengaged target in the process?. (Yes, behind cover, NO, not behind concealment.)

The rulebook is silent on removing a slide lock, whereas the old rulebook had the restriction. Therefore you may remove the slide lock. Note there is no general restriction about mag wells either.

If a gun fails the gun inspection because of a safety being disabled or missing, the shooter should receive a DNF and may not use that gun to complete the match.

Retention does not automatically require SHO. The COF may specify SHO retention. Support Hand Retention is not prohibited, but doesn’t make a lot of sense. 6.5.18.1 Strong-hand only stages requiring shooting with retention shall not exceed 1 yard distant from the shooter. Remember to cut out the -0 and leave the perf for close retention.

6.5.26.5.1 Simply means you can’t ignore a target covered by a non-threat and you must engage that target using tactical priority before moving to the target with lower priority, or leaving cover. You can’t say, “Well I can’t see the threat target, so I can skip it and then come back to it.”

Will IDPA provide any kind of liability insurance for safety officers if a shooter’s family decides to sue a safety officer for negligence if a shooter accidentally shoots themselves when drawing from an appendix holster? (This is no different than if someone shoots themselves while drawing from a strong side holster.)

Calibration zones mentioned in 4.16 are defined in section 4.12.

[CraigS]

The couple of guys I talked to at the match yesterday seem to agree that lights are legal on all pistols. So I need to weigh my gun/light combi and build a box to check dimensions.

[Jim Watson]

More updates from my area coordinator:

What if I run empty while behind cover, can I still leave and perform a reload on the move, as long as I complete it behind cover OR concealment as long as I do not become “exposed” to an unengaged target in the process?. (Yes, behind cover, NO, not behind concealment.)

That does not appear to agree with
3.5.11.2 In stages with cover, shooters may reload standing still or on the move at any time, as long as they are not exposed to targets that are not fully engaged during the reload.



Support Hand Retention is not prohibited, but doesn’t make a lot of sense.


I find that getting the other hand on the gun in retention may be a bit slower than onehanded, but the transition to aimed fire at the next, more distant target is quick quick.

[MVS]

So...I think this'll be my rig for this season...
86197

Hard for me to tell but I am guessing from the magwell it is P? I wasn't clear if they did away with the bull barrel length limit or not but sorta got that impression. I will probably run our "carry gun" matches with my C2 AIWB.

[JSGlock34]

Hard for me to tell but I am guessing from the magwell it is P? I wasn't clear if they did away with the bull barrel length limit or not but sorta got that impression. I will probably run our "carry gun" matches with my C2 AIWB.

It's a Staccato P DPO. It seemed like IDPA was already starting to permit the Staccatos despite the bull barrel with the "Fit The Box, Make Weight" (https://www.idpa.com/message-from-racl-rick-lund/#)guidance for ESP. The new ruleset just seems to codify that guidance. ESP/CO seems pretty broad in terms of what it will allow. Compensators remain illegal for all Divisions.

I've read elsewhere that the Staccato XL will fit the box for ESP...

[Zincwarrior]

If WML for every division might ponder this for CCP.

https://lokgrips.com/accessories/lok-light-brass-uspsa-wml/

[Amp]

WMLs are legal for all Divisions now but the gun still has to make weight and fit in the box with the light attached.

[Zincwarrior]

WMLs are legal for all Divisions now but the gun still has to make weight and fit in the box with the light attached.

Yes 38 ounces. The light also has to be capable of a minimum of 60 lumens. While not actually intending to drop the brass one on I do have a WML thats several ounces and would be helpful to my very light M&Pc. 38 ounces is quite a bit for a CCP, given that that category doesn't include the newer intentionally heavy competition production guns. I wonder what firearms would come close to that weight and still be in CCP size parameters.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Do you think the light would still be needed even when shooting 105 power factor?

[Steve m]

I just reread the rules book, still not clear, can magazine be worn in the front appendix type carry, IE a side car type holster or dedicated AIWB mag pouch?

thanks
Steve

[Sal Picante]

I just reread the rules book, still not clear, can magazine be worn in the front appendix type carry, IE a side car type holster or dedicated AIWB mag pouch?

thanks
Steve

Yes: there are no restrictions on the placement of the carrier. It just needs to be concealed.

[Jim Watson]

There is a shooter at the Wednesday night indoor USPSA with what looks like a P365 with dot and searchlight in a sidecar rig.
What I call "relentlessly tactical" at a shooting match, he is even blink illuminating the targets.

Not the same ruleset, I am just seizing the opportunity to say that his lack of functional reliability is dismaying. I don't know what ammo he uses and he is not real talkative; I will try to scrounge one he discards on a clearance.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A light fell off a G26's short rail last Thursday. Gun had a dot and a light.

[RickB]

"Quote Originally Posted by Amp View Post
More updates from my area coordinator:

What if I run empty while behind cover, can I still leave and perform a reload on the move, as long as I complete it behind cover OR concealment as long as I do not become “exposed” to an unengaged target in the process?. (Yes, behind cover, NO, not behind concealment.)

That does not appear to agree with:

3.5.11.2 In stages with cover, shooters may reload standing still or on the move at any time, as long as they are not exposed to targets that are not fully engaged during the reload."

That's the way my AC explained it, too; you can't see surprise targets behind downrange concealment, but they can "see" you, so you are exposed to them for reloading purposes.

[MVS]

Went through the IDPA SO course yesterday. They did not have the powerpoint lesson done yet for the new rules so we still used the 2017 rulebook. We did go over the changes to some extent. There are some things that still seemed a bit up in the air.

[GyroF-16]

My experience is that “Vision Barriers” are not treated the same as “Cover” for either engagement or reload rules.
Must slice the pie (using cover lines) from cover, and cannot leave cover with an empty gun.
No “slice the pie” (must engage based on what you can see, and generally work near-to-far) with vision barriers, and you cannot leave cover with an empty gun if there’s an unengaged target hidden behind a vision barrier. (Got dinged for that at a major match 2 years ago, doing a reload with retention behind a “vision barrier” and learned the hard way).

As far as I can see, there’s no change to that in the new rules.

Another way of looking at it is that, cover actually provides protection, while “concealment” or “vision barriers” do not.
Therefore reloads are better accomplished from cover, unless you run dry in the open.


"Quote Originally Posted by Amp View Post
More updates from my area coordinator:

What if I run empty while behind cover, can I still leave and perform a reload on the move, as long as I complete it behind cover OR concealment as long as I do not become “exposed” to an unengaged target in the process?. (Yes, behind cover, NO, not behind concealment.)

That does not appear to agree with:

3.5.11.2 In stages with cover, shooters may reload standing still or on the move at any time, as long as they are not exposed to targets that are not fully engaged during the reload."

That's the way my AC explained it, too; you can't see surprise targets behind downrange concealment, but they can "see" you, so you are exposed to them for reloading purposes.

[GyroF-16]

Went through the IDPA SO course yesterday. They did not have the powerpoint lesson done yet for the new rules so we still used the 2017 rulebook. We did go over the changes to some extent. There are some things that still seemed a bit up in the air.


So, new rules published in a rule book, but no training program for SO’s on the new rules.

Nice.

Seems to me that the whole thing should have been released as one package.

[MVS]

So, new rules published in a rule book, but no training program for SO’s on the new rules.

Nice.

Seems to me that the whole thing should have been released as one package.

You would think. Our instructor is very involved in IDPA runs a Major every year, etc. and there were still a lot of questions being worked through it appeared. On the good side, that club is one of them that was not going to allow AIWB but do to a few key people showing them how safe it can be, they are probably going to allow it. I really don't think all that many people are going to run it though.

[Jim Watson]

There were a number of bellybutton holsters at yesterday's match near here. No groin wounds.

The MD had previously said he would not go to 2022 rules until May, so I took my soon to be obsolete CCP-8 for one last ride. But he changed his mind and ran new rules allowing CCP-10 and CoFs to match which several times put my old gun at a disadvantage.
But I was the first to demonstrate the Last Round Reload which got a lot of attention and people started using it where advantageous.


So, new rules published in a rule book, but no training program for SO’s on the new rules.

That here, too, scheduled for 7 May. And a bass ackward schedule at that:
1. Take a www test based on 2017 rules before the day.
2. Run shooters in a match based on 2022 rules.
3. Hear a lecture based on 2017 rules but with addenda on 2022 changes.

I recall a better transition to the 2017 book, it is not like they do not know how to convert.

[RickB]

And, I think you have to recertify as CSO every other year; my certification lapsed a week before the new book was released, so I'll probably have to recertify twice in the span of a month, if the new test is soon available.

[GyroF-16]

And, I think you have to recertify as CSO every other year; my certification lapsed a week before the new book was released, so I'll probably have to recertify twice in the span of a month, if the new test is soon available.

I have a hard time imagining that every SO is going to have to retest once the new test comes out.
More likely those who recerted this year will just take the new test the next time they are due.

[TrackRider54]

I just got my SO certification back in February. I've only been SO at local matches so far and we are trying out the new rules. The only challenges I've had are the foul lines. It appears some think 8 feet is how far the line extends even if the physical line doesn't. I have to explain to them that the length of the foul like is the length of the foul line.

[Zincwarrior]

We have been running the new rules since announced. There have been no major issues so far. Frankly the difference is purely meh.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I just got my SO certification back in February. I've only been SO at local matches so far and we are trying out the new rules. The only challenges I've had are the foul lines. It appears some think 8 feet is how far the line extends even if the physical line doesn't. I have to explain to them that the length of the foul like is the length of the foul line.

That new rule has caused some drama on Facebook. The fault line still extends to the stage boundary / infinity

From Facebook:
The change to a limited FL is to keep Gamers from moving away from cover so far that they can see other targets not intended to be shot from that FL. It is not intended to be a PE trap. If you are at the end of a physical 8’ FL we are saying you are good if you are past it within reason, however if you are past it and shoot a target that should be engaged from somewhere else it is a PE. We are trying to help MD’s and stage designers with stages that could be gamed by a FL that had no end. For example CO shooters were taking advantage of this as they would take a longer and or harder shot to save movement. Hope this helps.

[TrackRider54]

That new rule has caused some drama on Facebook. The fault line still extends to the stage boundary / infinity

From Facebook:
The change to a limited FL is to keep Gamers from moving away from cover so far that they can see other targets not intended to be shot from that FL. It is not intended to be a PE trap. If you are at the end of a physical 8’ FL we are saying you are good if you are past it within reason, however if you are past it and shoot a target that should be engaged from somewhere else it is a PE. We are trying to help MD’s and stage designers with stages that could be gamed by a FL that had no end. For example CO shooters were taking advantage of this as they would take a longer and or harder shot to save movement. Hope this helps.

That is helpful, yes. Thank you!

[JCN]

From Facebook:
The change to a limited FL is to keep Gamers from moving away from cover so far that they can see other targets not intended to be shot from that FL. It is not intended to be a PE trap. If you are at the end of a physical 8’ FL we are saying you are good if you are past it within reason, however if you are past it and shoot a target that should be engaged from somewhere else it is a PE. We are trying to help MD’s and stage designers with stages that could be gamed by a FL that had no end. For example CO shooters were taking advantage of this as they would take a longer and or harder shot to save movement. Hope this helps.

So they’re trying to make a gun game not a gun game?

Dafuq?

It’s also amusing that they managed to FUDD the people that are competing.

“Those damn gamers with their red dots and their ability to hit things farther away… we can’t have THAT!”

[Mirolynmonbro]

The new rule is just to address seeing targets intended to be at cover and engaged from a separate fault line. This usually happens with poorly designed stages 🥴

That reply didn't come from anyone at IDPA. Just a dude explaining the rule in his own way

[Amp]

Just got this from my area coordinator:

STEPPING PAST THE END OF A FAULT LINE & FAULT LINE LENGTH
Understanding this new rule and when to apply a PE you must consider the target arrays and the context of the stage. Rule 3.6.7 reads: "Nested / Overlapping Fault Lines: Shooters shall not advance across fault lines in a way that exposes them to unengaged targets. Fault lines are not cover themselves. They restrict movement beyond a shooting position for unengaged targets which are exposed to the shooter."

- First, no PE may be given for simply stepping over or behind the end of a fault line unless a shot was also made while touching the other side.
- Secondly, the purpose of this rule is to prevent shooters from gaining access to other targets not intended to be engaged from that shooting position. This makes the rule subject to stage design and context.
- Use Case #1: Shooter is shooting behind single wall/barricade with a single fault line at P1 on one side and only has to shoot targets behind the wall, then no PE would apply for using far cover because the shooter is not exposed to any unengaged targets beyond the single array.
- Use Case #2: Shooter is shooting behind single wall/barricade with a single fault line and only has to shoot targets behind the wall. To the right is another wall where the shooter must move to engage more targets behind cover at P2. Before leaving P1, the shooter steps to far cover past the end of the fault line and engages a target that is related to the POC at P2. That deserves the PE. Either foot that steps past the end of the fault line that enables a shooter to engage that target gets the PE. To make it clear, it should be the whole foot.
- This means that match directors need to design stages with fault lines that keep shooters from attempting to use far cover for targets unrelated to that position of cover. An easy way to enforce that is to put a barrel there, or nail down a rear fault line. But again, violating that rear fault line doesn't get a PE unless there is another target that could be engaged that is unrelated to that shooting position.

A simpler way to say this is: A PE is deserved when a shooter steps behind the end of a fault line and is exposed to multiple arrays to skip setting up to shoot in other positions. Another way to say this is: Misuse of a fault line to take a shot on a target unrelated to that position of cover.

[Zincwarrior]

The new rule is just to address seeing targets intended to be at cover and engaged from a separate fault line. This usually happens with poorly designed stages 🥴

That reply didn't come from anyone at IDPA. Just a dude explaining the rule in his own way

I thought it was so gamers could position to take shots from that fault line and then with no movement or efficient movement take shots at the next targets in the course of fire. Or maybe thats the same thing.

The change is fine. They just need to wack anyone saying that the both feet need to be within that fault line distance, else it creates another vague issue. If thats the case put in a box already.

[GyroF-16]

This whole “issue” can and should be avoided through proper stage design.
If a shooter can stand in a particular place (not designated as cover), and see a threat, they can (and should) shoot it.
So if I shoot an array from a cover fault line, then step outside of that zone and see another threat, it should be shot then and there.
A properly designed stage will prevent this from happening if it is not a desired option.
Further, the best stages have several ways to run them, and it’s useful so have some where you can save time and movement by taking long range shots, or choosing to advance to a point of cover closer to the threats before engaging them. The risk/reward calculus can be further influenced by putting non-threats near the threats that there is an option to engage from longer range.

As others have said, if you must shoot T1-T4 from a very defined P1 (for example), just put a box there. And call it “The USPSA Stage”.



Just got this from my area coordinator:

STEPPING PAST THE END OF A FAULT LINE & FAULT LINE LENGTH
Understanding this new rule and when to apply a PE you must consider the target arrays and the context of the stage. Rule 3.6.7 reads: "Nested / Overlapping Fault Lines: Shooters shall not advance across fault lines in a way that exposes them to unengaged targets. Fault lines are not cover themselves. They restrict movement beyond a shooting position for unengaged targets which are exposed to the shooter."

- First, no PE may be given for simply stepping over or behind the end of a fault line unless a shot was also made while touching the other side.
- Secondly, the purpose of this rule is to prevent shooters from gaining access to other targets not intended to be engaged from that shooting position. This makes the rule subject to stage design and context.
- Use Case #1: Shooter is shooting behind single wall/barricade with a single fault line at P1 on one side and only has to shoot targets behind the wall, then no PE would apply for using far cover because the shooter is not exposed to any unengaged targets beyond the single array.
- Use Case #2: Shooter is shooting behind single wall/barricade with a single fault line and only has to shoot targets behind the wall. To the right is another wall where the shooter must move to engage more targets behind cover at P2. Before leaving P1, the shooter steps to far cover past the end of the fault line and engages a target that is related to the POC at P2. That deserves the PE. Either foot that steps past the end of the fault line that enables a shooter to engage that target gets the PE. To make it clear, it should be the whole foot.
- This means that match directors need to design stages with fault lines that keep shooters from attempting to use far cover for targets unrelated to that position of cover. An easy way to enforce that is to put a barrel there, or nail down a rear fault line. But again, violating that rear fault line doesn't get a PE unless there is another target that could be engaged that is unrelated to that shooting position.

A simpler way to say this is: A PE is deserved when a shooter steps behind the end of a fault line and is exposed to multiple arrays to skip setting up to shoot in other positions. Another way to say this is: Misuse of a fault line to take a shot on a target unrelated to that position of cover.

[Jim Watson]

- This means that match directors need to design stages with fault lines that keep shooters from attempting to use far cover for targets unrelated to that position of cover.

One of my MDs is laying out stages with vision barriers and cover walls that DIRECT you to move on a particular route or routes to engage all the targets IN HIS MIND. But he does not put out enough obstacles to FORCE you to move that way to find all the targets.

This inclines me to "break down the stage" (USPSA-speak) so as to minimize movement regardless of his INTENTIONS.
After the last of these exercises, he wryly commented "It was amazing to see you standing at the back of the stage shooting Zeros." (Actually I had dropped 3 points.) I was using that sneaky "far cover" for several of those targets rather than taking a convoluted route to his favored position.

If he sees this post, no doubt he will start putting in rear fault lines to make me trudge through a track meet stage. I might have to start stepping them off to see if he is requiring too much total movement.

I have seen stages with firing positions specified by fiat, "Targets 4,5, and 6 are only "available" from "over there" even though they are clearly visible and safely shootable from "right here." At one time that was specifically barred from stage design but these things come and go.

The quoted AC is sure using the term "deserves" a lot. You only "deserve a PE" when you contravene a specific provision of the rules or CoF.

[Cyberpunk1981]

Nevermind. Found the answer to my question.

[CraigS]

We don't seem to have the problem at the 2 clubs I shoot at. There is a question sometimes but usually the directions for each stage include something like 'from P1 engage T3-T5'. Last Saturday there were a lot of questions at one stage so we grabbed the guy who set it up. He realized that he could have explained it better so added a few notes to the stage sheet. Fortunately we were the first squad to shoot that stage so everyone got the same revised directions. I see this often as the difference between setting up a stage on the PC vs how it turns out in reality. I like it when, from each position we can see only what we should shoot at, but reality is that we don't have enough walls to do that for every stage.

[Mark D]

I intend to shoot a match this weekend. I looked through the rule book and it appears I can shoot CO with my G19 + 507C + TLR8. Can I leave my magwell on the gun?

[fatdog]

I intend to shoot a match this weekend. I looked through the rule book and it appears I can shoot CO with my G19 + 507C + TLR8. Can I leave my magwell on the gun?

USPSA CO = no external magwells, the magwell would push you to Open, unless they changed the rules again while I was not looking....which has happened several times now

[GJM]

USPSA CO = no external magwells, the magwell would push you to Open, unless they changed the rules again while I was not looking....which has happened several times now

Wasn't he asking about IDPA, and I am also curious about the answer?

[Zincwarrior]

I intend to shoot a match this weekend. I looked through the rule book and it appears I can shoot CO with my G19 + 507C + TLR8. Can I leave my magwell on the gun?

CO employs ESP rules, so yes.

A.7 Carry Optics Division
A.7.1 Handguns permitted:
A.7.1.1 Handguns, associated modifications, restrictions, holsters, magazine carriers, calibers, start condition,
and division capacity shall be compliant with ESP Division requirements, except as it relates to sights,
lasers and overall weight.
A.7.1.2 Maximum weight including empty magazine will not exceed 45 ounces.
A.7.1.3 Firearms used in this division must be equipped with an optical sight system in order to compete this
division.
A.7.2 Optics suitable for this division fall under two categories with different restrictions on how they are
mounted to the firearm.
A.7.2.1 Passive: These include Miniature Red Dot and Reflex sights suitable for concealed every day carry (EDC).
They project or reflect a dot onto the optic. Passive Optics (MRDS) must be attached directly to upper
between rear of upper and ejection port.
A.7.2.2 Active: These are Red or Green LASER sights that project a dot onto the target. Active LASER sights are
permitted to be mounted on the frame of the firearm. Typical locations can be the rail or the pistol grip.

[GJM]

CO employs ESP rules, so yes.

A.7 Carry Optics Division
A.7.1 Handguns permitted:
A.7.1.1 Handguns, associated modifications, restrictions, holsters, magazine carriers, calibers, start condition,
and division capacity shall be compliant with ESP Division requirements, except as it relates to sights,
lasers and overall weight.
A.7.1.2 Maximum weight including empty magazine will not exceed 45 ounces.
A.7.1.3 Firearms used in this division must be equipped with an optical sight system in order to compete this
division.
A.7.2 Optics suitable for this division fall under two categories with different restrictions on how they are
mounted to the firearm.
A.7.2.1 Passive: These include Miniature Red Dot and Reflex sights suitable for concealed every day carry (EDC).
They project or reflect a dot onto the optic. Passive Optics (MRDS) must be attached directly to upper
between rear of upper and ejection port.
A.7.2.2 Active: These are Red or Green LASER sights that project a dot onto the target. Active LASER sights are
permitted to be mounted on the frame of the firearm. Typical locations can be the rail or the pistol grip.

So to confirm, ESP allows a mag well?

[Zincwarrior]

So to confirm, ESP allows a mag well?

Yes. SSP does not but ESP does.

[Mark D]

I intend to shoot a match this weekend. I looked through the rule book and it appears I can shoot CO with my G19 + 507C + TLR8. Can I leave my magwell on the gun?



Yes. SSP does not but ESP does.

Thanks for the clarification on the magwell. I'll leave it on the gun.

[fatdog]

So to confirm, ESP allows a mag well?

yes within size limits of fitting the box unless I misunderstand it

A.2 Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP)
A.2.1 Handguns permitted for use in ESP must:
A.2.1.1 Be semi-automatic.
A.2.1.2 Use 9 mm (9x19) or larger cartridges.
A.2.1.3 The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 43.00 oz. or less.
A.2.1.4 The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾” x 6” x 1
5
/8”.
A.2.1.5 Firearms originally sold as compensated/ported models may be used in ESP with noncompensated/ported barrels installed.
A.2.2 Start Condition:
A.2.2.1 Single action only firearms will start with the hammer cocked and the safety engaged.
A.2.2.2 Selective DA/SA firearms may start cocked and locked or de-cocked, at the shooter’s discretion.
A.2.2.3 DA, DAO, or striker fired firearms with a de-cocking lever or button will be de-cocked using the lever or
button.
A.2.2.4 DA, DAO, or striker-fired firearms may have a manual safety engaged at the shooter’s discretion.
A.2.3 ESP Permitted Modifications
A.2.3.1 See (8.1.6 and 8.1.7 in the IDPA Rulebook (nothing there calling out magwells, and CDP specifically calls them out as acceptable)
A.2.4 ESP Excluded Features and Modifications (Non-Inclusive list)
A.2.4.1 Trigger shoes.

[MVS]

So to confirm, ESP allows a mag well?

As long as it still fits in the box.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I intend to shoot a match this weekend. I looked through the rule book and it appears I can shoot CO with my G19 + 507C + TLR8. Can I leave my magwell on the gun?

Yes

[RJ]

Background: I recently moved to Tavares in Lake County FL, about an hour North of Orlando. There is an IDPA club near me, so I am planning to stop and check out a match. In order to manage my expectations, I spent some time reading the Rulebook (version 2023.2, amended 2/22/23), and have a couple minor questions below.

I have a Sig P365X. Holster will be OWB strongside, with a single reload OWB weak side. I also have an extra P365XL slide with an optic. Cover garment would be my normal untucked polo, or XL T-shirt. I’m generally familiar with action pistol; albeit I don’t go very often because: reasons. Highest I ever classified was D 36% in Production in USPSA. I’ve shot 15 matches lifetime.

Thanks!


What Division?

I assume my P365X would put me in Compact Carry Pistol? On the other hand, if I put the XL slide on (the one with the optic), I assume I would be shooting Carry Optics, correct?



Reloads?

Reloads are probably the area I’m most confused about.

Rule 3.4.6 says I can’t leave a mag with ammo behind, and 3.5.7 says I have to “properly stow” the mag. What’s “properly stowed”? Can I drop it in my pocket? Or do I have to stuff it back in my mag pouch? If the mag is empty (i.e. not a “mag with ammo”) can I just drop it on the ground?

Rule 3.4.1 says IDPA prefers slide-lock reloads. Are there typically any situations where I can not shoot to slide lock i.e. reload a partially loaded mag with a full one?

Rule 6.5.11 says no course of fire needs more than 18 rounds. Can I assume that my one reload is sufficient for “all” stages? (I’d carry a backup mag in my pocket for malfunctions).

[Mirolynmonbro]

Reloads?

Reloads are probably the area I’m most confused about.

Rule 3.4.6 says I can’t leave a mag with ammo behind, and 3.5.7 says I have to “properly stow” the mag. What’s “properly stowed”? Can I drop it in my pocket? Or do I have to stuff it back in my mag pouch? If the mag is empty (i.e. not a “mag with ammo”) can I just drop it on the ground?

Rule 3.4.1 says IDPA prefers slide-lock reloads. Are there typically any situations where I can not shoot to slide lock i.e. reload a partially loaded mag with a full one?

Rule 6.5.11 says no course of fire needs more than 18 rounds. Can I assume that my one reload is sufficient for “all” stages? (I’d carry a backup mag in my pocket for malfunctions).

You're correct about pretty much everything

Stowed can be in a pocket, stuff in your waistband, in the mag pouch. If it's empty then it can be left where it falls.

You don't have to do slide lock reloads. You can reload with a round in the chamber and your mag can eject to the ground as long as the magazine is empty.

i.e. reload a partially loaded mag with a full one?

This is allowed, and where 3.5.7 comes into play with "properly stowed"

Can I assume that my one reload is sufficient for “all” stages?

Usually yes, but they could have a stage where you start with a downloaded magazine. If the stage says start with magazine loaded to 2 rounds and there are 18 required shots, then you will need the 3rd mag.

[Jim Watson]

Usually yes, but they could have a stage where you start with a downloaded magazine. If the stage says start with magazine loaded to 2 rounds and there are 18 required shots, then you will need the 3rd mag.

This is one way the MDs are making SSP-15 shooters reload at all.
One is to have long stages, 17-18 hits, another is a downloaded start. Or 16 hits and an empty gun start.

I tried it for a while until I saw the trend in stage design, then went back to ESP.
I also shoot USPSA and people wonder why I shoot Limited 10. It is so I have the same approach to the stage. True, I can reload any time in USPSA, but it still keeps me thinking about the reload at an early point, not in the dim distant future of the last array.

[Mirolynmonbro]

This is one way the MDs are making SSP-15 shooters reload at all.
One is to have long stages, 17-18 hits, another is a downloaded start. Or 16 hits and an empty gun start.

I tried it for a while until I saw the trend in stage design, then went back to ESP.
I also shoot USPSA and people wonder why I shoot Limited 10. It is so I have the same approach to the stage. True, I can reload any time in USPSA, but it still keeps me thinking about the reload at an early point, not in the dim distant future of the last array.

My club does the same with stages. They don't make any 16 round stages. If I shot SSP I'd probably just use a ten round mag

[RJ]

Thanks guys. I will probably give my local IDPA club a visit and see what it's all about. Appreciate the input.

[CraigS]

I guess my IWLA doesn't think much about mag capacities. Last match 3 of 6 stages were 15 or 16 rnds so i was happy. OTOH you better make all your hits. One stage the first shot was a 6 inch steel at about 15 yds. My Beretta 92 has a really smooth DA trigger pull but I mapped out a spot to do a tac reload if I didn't get it w/ one shot.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Looks like ALL comps are now legal in ESP, CO, BUG, CCP as long as it makes weight and fits in the box.

Someone on BE shared an email from their area coordinator

[YVK]

Looks like ALL comps are now legal in ESP, CO, BUG, CCP as long as it makes weight and fits in the box.

Someone on BE shared an email from their area coordinator


I saw that thread. That email said, apparently, "must not be field removable". What does field removable mean? Can a screw-on comp like PMM be considered field removable since all one needs to do is to unscrew it? What about all those comps like Zev or Radian that can easily be removed in the field with one screwdriver? More emails to ACs, methinks.

Seems like Mayhem/Rogue is no go, removable without tools for sure. Weird, why not?

[JCN]

103224

I am ready!

[Mirolynmonbro]

I saw that thread. That email said, apparently, "must not be field removable". What does field removable mean? Can a screw-on comp like PMM be considered field removable since all one needs to do is to unscrew it? What about all those comps like Zev or Radian that can easily be removed in the field with one screwdriver? More emails to ACs, methinks.

Seems like Mayhem/Rogue is no go, removable without tools for sure. Weird, why not?

I have an email now and it doesn't say anything about "field removable", just that all comps are legal provided it makes weight and fits in the box

[Noah]

Wow. Aggressive forward move. Not entirely sure I love it, as a non comped or ported gun now "feels" uncompetitive. I'm a big fan of "if it fits in the box it's legal" for most divisions, but I guess this pretty much leaves SSP as one of the only uncomped divisions?

[Jim Watson]

CDP for Manly .45s doesn't get a compensator.
SSP is a lot closer to stock than USPSA Production.
No Magnaport on your Revolver.

But yes, I think there will be peer pressure to get ports or comps on ESP and CO. Also CCP.
I have thought about having my Springfield ESP ported, I am not messing with my old Colt.

[Sal Picante]

103224

I am ready!

Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit him with it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX0MB7pJtKs