Dog Grooming: Charter Pitbull .40

[SCCY Marshal]

A buddy has too many projects going and called in a favor. He wants his forty caliber Charter Arms Pitbull "carved-up like you do to half your revolvers before the car has cooled off from the gunstore." I'm not refusing an open invitation to get freaky!

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So, we have a cheap snub with too-much grip to look right. What ever will we do?

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Proportions look much better, now, and we have room to take more if desired.

Now I'm packing up to see if I can shoot the Werner-Hayes 5^5, run three loads over the chronograph, and group each at 15 yards in moderate snowfall.

I'll get into some context, size/weight comparisons to better guns, plans for the hammer spur, reloading considerations, and handload planning in later posts to follow soon. Bud is headed off on a vacation so I have a couple weeks to get everything done and write-up a report for him.

Input welcome and I'm no Charter fanboy so feel free to offer open disdain.

[SCCY Marshal]

Chronograph:

Federal 180 grain FMJ, aluminum case
- 888fps average
- Note: These have hard primers that my HKs and Berettas hate. The Pitbull set them off in both single and double-action.

180 grain cast powder coated flat point over some amount of HS-6
- 828fps average

180 grain cast powder coated flat point over Trail Boss
- 464fps average

Very low point of impact with all three loads. Recoil in the full power was about like .38 +P in a J-frame or shooting a GLOCK 27. The Trail Boss load was a powderpuff.

The chambers have no patience for dirty ammunition in addition to a very fine cylinder gap. Will be moving on to plated bullet handloads, aiming for a 750-800fps velocity. Something easier on the gun and cleaner for reloading it.

Reloading the Pitbull from a 38 caliber Bianchi speed strip works a treat, assuming no lead or excessive powder fouling. Will be trying the magazine to a compact or subcompact auto, next.

The trigger is better than when he picked it up but far from smooth and will never be a Smith.

For holster fit, my much-hated Galco C819 L STO 158 works fine in the appendix position. But it is a godawful gunsock which no one should ever buy.

[SCCY Marshal]

Grinding Projects for Tonight:

Hammer Spur
- While a very nice size, the corners are a bit sharp. I plan to aggressively round them. I may radius them to the point the tip of the spur is semi-circular. While the snub cleared leather fine, it could stand to be a touch less snaggy. Reducing the chance it eats undershirts and cover garments is also a goal.

Trigger
- Is a little wide and, more pointedly, sharp-cornered. I will be relieving the corners and subtly rounding the trigger face more than factory.

Front Sight
- Will need to be filed down to regulate with the selected load/s. This will be approached conservatively over several range trips. It will then be given an obnoxious yellow fingernail polish highlight.

Rear Sight
- Will be blacked out. The current stainless-on-stainless has got to be improved.

[SCCY Marshal]

Bianchi speed strip demo:

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The extractor tabs prevent cartridges slipping fully into the chambers. Anyone familiar with reloading a rimfire from strips won't mind running their thumb over case heads to finish seating. I also tested a reload with the muzle pointed a bit upward. The cartridges were held in partially-seated position by the tabs rather than fall out. This should not be the orientation for a reload but I was curious, regardless.

[Duelist]

Interesting little gun.

[Polecat]

Adopt a front sight with the ameriglo dayglo tritium ring combo, u notch rear, bob the hammer, cut right front trigger guard down ala Bill Jordan, chamfer charge holes.

[lee n. field]

A buddy has too many projects going and called in a favor. He wants his forty caliber Charter Arms Pitbull "carved-up like you do to half your revolvers before the car has cooled off from the gunstore." I'm not refusing an open invitation to get freaky!

...

So, we have a cheap snub with too-much grip to look right. What ever will we do?

[
85938

Nice mod on the grip. I may try that, and see if iI can make my Bulldog possibly pocketable.

Are they using the plastic grip frame in that Pitbull?



Proportions look much better, now, and we have room to take more if desired.

Now I'm packing up to see if I can shoot the Werner-Hayes 5^5, run three loads over the chronograph, and group each at 15 yards in moderate snowfall.

I'll get into some context, size/weight comparisons to better guns, plans for the hammer spur

If you're interested, Charter will sell you a spurless DAO hammer. It's not even expensive. Installing it is literally a 5 minute job.


, reloading considerations, and handload planning in later posts to follow soon. Bud is headed off on a vacation so I have a couple weeks to get everything done and write-up a report for him.

Input welcome and I'm no Charter fanboy so feel free to offer open disdain.

"it is what it is."

I had 2 Undercovers 10-ish years ago, and picked up a used .44 Bulldog with "some issues" early in the current panic. Each has broken the transfer bar at least once. Charter's video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHJmLpsW5j4) makes the replacement look easy. I never found it so.

I'll be interested to hear how it goes.

[SCCY Marshal]

Nice mod on the grip. I may try that, and see if iI can make my Bulldog possibly pocketable.

Are they using the plastic grip frame in that Pitbull?

The grip frame seems to be cast aluminum or ZAMAC.

As for the stocks, they are cheap enough to give it a go and be easily replaced if the results prove unsatisfactory. I cut them to make it a bit more concealable and fit in more jacket pockets. While Charter sells boot grips, they look both hideous and too small versus the nicely increased trigger reach and girth on these. Plus the covered backstrap being a forty.

[jeep45238]

I'll be honest, I sort of like it.

[willie]

Keeping chambers dry will lessen case setback which this design can't tolerate. Two screws must be kept tight: one in front of frame securing crane and the thumb latch screw. If action locks up, opening cylinder requires pushing forward against lip on end of extractor rod. My lgs recently did a transfer to a customer for a Charter 357. After it ceased working, returning it to factory was on his dime. Some work, and others don't. My opinion is that they do not withstand high round counts. When Taurus fires a tech, he hitch hikes to the Charter Arms factory where he's put in charge of quality control.

[entropy]

Neat little gun. Never heard of one before. It would be a nice alternative to my SP101 which my daughter appears to be quite fond of... It would also check the box for the supply of .40 HST sitting on the shelf in the loading room. How’s that cylinder latch work out? Looks like it would be hard on your thumb, especially with a stout load.

[SCCY Marshal]

...It would be a nice alternative to my SP101 which my daughter appears to be quite fond of...How’s that cylinder latch work out? Looks like it would be hard on your thumb, especially with a stout load.

While quite neat, it is far from nice. I would not recomend one to anyone here except as a practice piece for garagineering. That said, I am appreciating the chance for a prper howdy-do so I can help any future novice asking me to help them get up to speed with an already purchased Charter Arms.

As for the cylinder latch, it is far enugh away from my locked-down thumbs to pose no risk. Pushing it to release the cylinder requires practice, though, The screw and plate remain stationary and I have cut myself on an aquaintance's 32 S&W Long model before. Using the Ohio/Taylor reload like Michael DeBethencourt seems more fitting to the design and I've had no problem with this Pitbull:


https://youtu.be/sjRTdXvjBmE

[jandbj]

SCCY Marshal,

I enjoy these offbeats trips into WECSOG land. Half fitz on the trigger guard could be a nice addition to try as well.

[SCCY Marshal]

...cut right front trigger guard down ala Bill Jordan...


...Half fitz on the trigger guard could be a nice addition to try as well.

Looking at the gripframe at the front of the guard where it nests in by the crane, I might relieve about 1/3 the trigger guard width. I'll lightly scribe a line and have a bit of a think before committing.

[entropy]

While quite neat, it is far from nice. I would not recomend one to anyone here except as a practice piece for garagineering. That said, I am appreciating the chance for a prper howdy-do so I can help any future novice asking me to help them get up to speed with an already purchased Charter Arms.

As for the cylinder latch, it is far enugh away from my locked-down thumbs to pose no risk. Pushing it to release the cylinder requires practice, though, The screw and plate remain stationary and I have cut myself on an aquaintance's 32 S&W Long model before. Using the Ohio/Taylor reload like Michael DeBethencourt seems more fitting to the design and I've had no problem with this Pitbull:


Bummer. Not on the same level as the Taurus then huh? I was hoping I could run it as a low round count carry piece...I got a bunch of .40.

[SCCY Marshal]

...Not on the same level as the Taurus then huh?

The Taurus 856 is a better gun to the point you can tell just handling them dry. If someone already knows their way around a revolver, isn't afraid to call customer service or do their own wrenching, is willing to gamble a relatively small sum, and doesn't expect to pull a carry gun out of the box, a Charter might be worth buying.

As an example, my buddy got this one cheap from the used rack. He just wanted to check it out, have some fun, and maybe tuck it under his leg at the drive-through ATM with a wheel full of HST if it vetted well. If one were married to the idea/availability/price of a Charter for defensive use, I've found the 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Magnum, and 22WMR guns to be a better fit for the - erm - quality.

If you do decide to put money down on the gamble, I would suggest you leave at least some hammer spur for unlocking the cylinder stop and spinning it to check for binding on proud case heads. Also, if it does bind up while shooting, cocking to single-action would beat grinding through a stiff or unusable double-action in a pinch. Being a make with earned reputation for short service life, I'd also suggest the lion's share of shoting be reduced-power handloads. Lobbing a 180 grain pill somewhere between 750 and 800fps would still be equivalent to a fat and flat nosed 38 Special Super Police load bumming around the back forty.

[entropy]

Run any 180gr HST thru it yet? Curious on that since that’s what’s on the shelf.

Right or wrong, I haven’t run either one of my snubs very hard. I’ll run a box thru every few months and that’s what I shoot to qualify for my CCW. But....if I need it to work...it needs to work. Period.

It sure looks tempting tho. If one can be found is another question entirely. Sarah15 has one up on GB right now, but it’s about to close and I got to think a bit on this one.

[SCCY Marshal]

I've stuffed five HST 180 grainers in the cylinder to make sure they fit and the case heads don't drag. Holding off on shooting any until I have shimmed the cylinder to try widening the gap and filed the front sight a bit.

[dvc45acp]

SCCY Marshal, attached (I think as this is my first post) is my .45 Pitbull. I did similar mods to yours. Bobbed the hammer, smoothed the trigger. In the pic I have Charter boot grips but I didn't care for them. I wound up with Pachmyer Compacs and they are just right. I used Skinner Sights orange and white markers to get a bright orange front sight (at 71 I need all the help I can get <G>) I've had it for a couple of years and put a few rounds through it. First problem was at about 300 rounds and the barrel started clocking. Sent it back and they quickly fixed it and returned it. Started having light primer hits so I got a "green" mainspring from Charter and that solved it but at the expense of a pretty heavy trigger. The gun is accurate. Holsters are tough to find but maybe the 40 uses the smaller frame. I got a Don Hume and a Bell Charter Oaks that fit. Turns out my summer special for an N frame works also. I carry +P HST. At the Gunsite revolver round up, Chuck Haggard shot gel with it. Good penetration, didn't expand but turned 180. I think I chrono'd it in the low 800's. I hope your friend likes his. It's a decent gun, but I wish it was better. The story of my life <G> FWIW, Ed

[4RNR]

So what exactly is wrong with it? Or did I miss that part?

Being a make known for a short lifespan....what era? Hasn't there been like 4 or 5 different owners/manufacturers of that name?

Just curious. No stake in it, don't now, and never have, owned a Charter Arms. Just curious because sometimes the problems seem to be more visual than physical. I don't like the way it looks vs it's not working.

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[entropy]

dvc45acp,

Welcome. Pull up a chair.

[dvc45acp]

So what exactly is wrong with it? Or did I miss that part?

Being a make known for a short lifespan....what era? Hasn't there been like 4 or 5 different owners/manufacturers of that name?

Just curious. No stake in it, don't now, and never have, owned a Charter Arms. Just curious because sometimes the problems seem to be more visual than physical. I don't like the way it looks vs it's not working.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

4RNR, if the question was to me, I did have some issues that I mentioned (barrel turning and light hammer strikes). Trigger is pretty bad. The Pitbull is from the latest iteration of Charter. It's a pretty specific gun that I have never seen made before. A 22 ounce, 5 shot .45 acp that doesn't need moon clips. The 325PD was close but it was still an N frame. The pit is a pretty niche piece, and the overall gun is pretty rough. I've cleaned mine up to a level I can live with, but I just wish it was better made. I've got over 500 rounds through mine and it doesn't show much wear. There was a guy on youtube that had one. He wrote Charter and asked if he could shoot 45 Super in it. They responded that +P was OK, but they didn't think it was of any value. The guy took that as OK and shot (I think) 30 rounds of the Buffalo Bore 255 HC Super. He chrono'd them at about 1000. The gun didn't blow up <G> Ed

[dvc45acp]

dvc45acp,

Welcome. Pull up a chair.

Thank you very much! Ed

[SCCY Marshal]

So what exactly is wrong with it? Or did I miss that part?

Being a make known for a short lifespan....what era? Hasn't there been like 4 or 5 different owners/manufacturers of that name?

Just curious. No stake in it, don't now, and never have, owned a Charter Arms. Just curious because sometimes the problems seem to be more visual than physical. I don't like the way it looks vs it's not working.

Charter Arms was founded explicitly to provide working class people with an affordable snub, originally 38 Special. The design is actually comendable in usung a solid frame without sideplate and LCR/SAA-style gripframe. This should be stronger than a comparable S&W or Colt (and is as Ruger revolvers have shown) but was used, in this case, to make a more cheaply produced gun strong enough. So we have cheap guns of homely aesthetics made by a company that has gone defunct more than once and lets a lot of lemons out the door. Even the properly to-spec. units have short service lives but do admittedly carry a generous warranty.

I believe our own HeadHunter has worn out enough of the 38 caliber guns to generally estimate service life in the neighborhood of 500 rounds. The 32 caliber and rimfire models seem to hold up better, in my experience. And the 44 Special Bulldogs seem to enjoy an enduring reputation of being generally better than the 38 Specials but factory ammo costs and recoil probably keep roundcounts down by default. The Bulldogs also tend to be graded on a curve for being a very small framed forty-four.

As far as obvious problems with this specific Pitbull, the cylinder gap has to be widened. And a reduced-power handload needs to be cooked up that hits to a similar POI as 180 grain HST because there is no way this thing is going to be an heirloom piece with any real firing schedule of standard pressure cartridges. The 380 ACP Pitbull intrigues me as a possibly more appropriately chambered take on the rimless revolver concept.

To end on a more positive note, an author at the Revolver Guy blog has nice things to say about the 9x19mm Pitbull:

https://revolverguy.com/charter-arms-pitbull-9mm-revolver/

[lee n. field]

The Taurus 856 is a better gun to the point you can tell just handling them dry. If someone already knows their way around a revolver, isn't afraid to call customer service or do their own wrenching, is willing to gamble a relatively small sum, and doesn't expect to pull a carry gun out of the box, a Charter might be worth buying.

And, unlike some other makers, there's very little in Charter's parts list (http://www.charterfirearms.com/files/1/0874/7670/files/Bulldog_List_2014.pdf) that's "factory only."


SCCY Marshal, attached (I think as this is my first post) is my .45 Pitbull. I did similar mods to yours. Bobbed the hammer, smoothed the trigger. In the pic I have Charter boot grips but I didn't care for them. I wound up with Pachmyer Compacs and they are just right. I used Skinner Sights orange and white markers to ge........ Holsters are tough to find but maybe the 40 uses the smaller frame.

I think, could be wrong, it's using the same frame as the .44 bulldog.

[SCCY Marshal]

The 40 S&W Pitbull is built on the .357 frame, which I believe is the same as the Bulldog. The 45 ACP, 45 Colt, and 41 Magnum revolvers are built on a chunkier XL frame.

[4RNR]

I believe our own HeadHunter has worn out enough of the 38 caliber guns to generally estimate service life in the neighborhood of 500 rounds.

Interesting. I would think there would be a lot of these showing up broken. Even the most casual shooters eventually gets to 500 rounds.



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[Duelist]

Interesting. I would think there would be a lot of these showing up broken. Even the most casual shooters eventually gets to 500 rounds.



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Most casual shooters =/= most gun owners. I have purchased guns that were over 20 years old that had less than 100 rounds through them.

Shooters are a different breed than owners.

Most guns really don’t get shot all that much, especially at today’s ammo prices.

[SCCY Marshal]

I did not take a photograph of the unmolested hammer spur so have a watermarked one from Gunblast:

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And now:

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A full bob was on the table but this will still work with thumb-break holsters, allows a safe and easy check for grinding on the recoil plate, gives SA capability if DA does bind for some reason, and the fact that yoi can always take more off later but can't replace anything already taken.

Up next: Order endshake shims to widen the cylinder gap. While at it, include hammer shims just to try. No signs of hammer drag but the shims are cheap to have on hand, anyway.

I also remembered a small baggie of old, unsafe 10mm Silvertip factory cartridges I had been given. Whatever happened to them over the years, the cases are splitting and they radiate thoroughly bad juju. I'll pull the bullets and load them in 40 S&W brass over a middling charge of HS-6 for a few cheap cylinders' worth of shooting. Then scrap the 10mm cases before they end up in the reloading supplies.

[lee n. field]

I did not take a photograph of the unmolested hammer spur so have a watermarked one from Gunblast:

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Looks nice.



Up next: Order endshake shims to widen the cylinder gap. While at it, include hammer shims just to try. No signs of hammer drag but the shims are cheap to have on hand, anyway.

My Bulldog (that I knew needed attention) had endshake sufficient to intermittently bind the cylinder in use. That, and a still unresolved problem with the ejector rod (annoying, but functional), had me ship it in for service. Charter dressed the inside end of the barrel, which didn't totally fix the problem. A shim from triggershims.com did.

Charter's* three videos on their little YouTube page are genuinely helpful.

(*I keep wanting to write "Taurus" for some reason.)

[jtcarm]

I can’t imagine they sell enough of those to be worthwhile.

I do own a GP100 10mm. But that’s a Ruger.

I think if a friend came to me with a Charter Arms revolver and a similar request, they would get it back attached to a trotline.

[SCCY Marshal]

The 40 S&W Pitbull was introduced in 2012 and has remained in production for the past decade. Charter also released 9x19mm and 380 ACP variants. They also spit out a larger framed 45 ACP. For the Canadian market, they even have barrels with 4.whatever" tubes to be legal. Looks like they sell plenty. But I don't know in what shops and to whom because this is the first one I've seen in person.


My Bulldog (that I knew needed attention) had endshake sufficient to intermittently bind the cylinder in use. That, and a still unresolved problem with the ejector rod (annoying, but functional), had me ship it in for service. Charter dressed the inside end of the barrel, which didn't totally fix the problem. A shim from triggershims.com did.

I ordered my endshake shim from that site. With you vouching for them, I actually ordered a 20-pack assortment to have some on hand if any other Charters in the social citrcle need one.

[lee n. field]

The 40 S&W Pitbull was introduced in 2012 and has remained in production for the past decade. Charter also released 9x19mm and 380 ACP variants. They also spit out a larger framed 45 ACP. For the Canadian market, they even have barrels with 4.whatever" tubes to be legal. Looks like they sell plenty. But I don't know in what shops and to whom because this is the first one I've seen in person.

I've seen a few, but not often.




I ordered my endshake shim from that site. With you vouching for them, I actually ordered a 20-pack assortment to have some on hand if any other Charters in the social citrcle need one.

To get the cylinder apart you have to get the ejector rod head off, and they Locktite that in place. They use the kind of Loctite you have to use heat to break. Once you get that off, the shim is straightforward. See the first 1.75 minutes of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EgSOYn3xJM). (That's as far as I've had mine apart so far.)