Unloaded gun start

[Slavex]

so I was trying out a new technique that a friend of mine had been playing with for unloaded gun starts. We've seen a bunch of these at matches lately, mag in the gun but no round in the chamber. I usually just draw and rack by grasping the front of the slide, like I do when I load and make ready. Instead now, I just use the flat part of my palm and press down and back as I push the gun out (I know I didn't do a pressout). Pretty much like wiping the slide back when you get a stove pipe I gues? Best run was .89 at 7yds on the Pistol-Training.com target in the big circle. I was sure that I was going to get a short stroke or something with this technique, but in 50 runs all I got was a sore hand from slamming my palm down onto the slide, I can live with that. Obviously going to work it more to get to the point where I trust it in a match.
I'm sure David Armstrong will be laughing at me, as this shows that condition 3 can brought into play quickly, haha David, haha. lol


http://youtu.be/MwCz4RsSz84

[Corlissimo]

That's pretty slick. It looks like you're using the rear sight a little too, is that correct?
I'm presuming (based on the stated context of using this in competition) that there are no slide modifications on top (cuts, serrations, etc) and no grip tape as well.

[Slavex]

Top of the slide/rear sight sort of all together. No mods or grip tape on the slide. Bone stock CZ Shadow.

[jstyer]

Wicked fast. And I really don't wanna sound like a dick... but it looks like your trigger finger gets in the guard really early, like while your support hand is racking the slide.

[ToddG]

Wicked fast. And I really don't wanna sound like a dick... but it looks like your trigger finger gets in the guard really early, like while your support hand is racking the slide.

slavex posted this vid in the private Staff section a couple days ago and I thought the same thing. Pulling the vid into an editor and watching it in stop motion showed it's not the case. Trigger finger discipline looked perfect to me.

Still stupid, though. :cool:

[JodyH]

Wicked fast. And I really don't wanna sound like a dick... but it looks like your trigger finger gets in the guard really early, like while your support hand is racking the slide.
Nope.
I did a frame by frame and his finger doesn't hit the trigger until the gun is almost level, immediately before his support hand hits the grip.

[jstyer]

Awesome. I'm watching it on a phone screen, so my analysis is pretty janky :)

Still... stupid fast.

[Slavex]

Just watched in slow motion and my finger stays outside the trigger guard until after the gun is racked. It goes in as I'm driving up and toward the target. Not saying it couldn't happen as I was pushing pretty hard on some of the runs but none of the ones I watched showed it happening. Some of the runs were done from retention, one handed and two handed and even then the finger was out until the slide was racked.
aaaannnnd just saw that other people had replied before me. lol. And don't worry, if my finger had been in there I'd expect people to make sure I knew, so that I could correct myself. Todd nailed me a couple times for that the first time he was up here for a course, and I hope I learned something from that.

[jstyer]

In my defense... I was mostly blinded by jealousy! I hate to male false accusations, I'm glad the others jumped in and set me straight.

[JodyH]

Just FYI.
I'm going to laugh and mock you when you post the video of your ER visit for stitches in the palm of your hand from the rear sight/ejection port/hammer/whatever.
:p

[Josh Runkle]

I don't wish to derail: my question is genuine: What is the purpose of an unloaded start? Is it for "safety" or is it to simulate a scenario? Why aren't "unloaded" starts, mag out as well?

[joshs]

I don't wish to derail: my question is genuine: What is the purpose of an unloaded start? Is it for "safety" or is it to simulate a scenario? Why aren't "unloaded" starts, mag out as well?

There are starts starts of all variations of loaded/unloaded and holstered/unholstered. They are mostly used to add something different instead of as a practical scenario. Unloaded starts are generally less common in the US, likely because it is generally lawful to carry or store a loaded firearm here. So, there isn't really a practical application for the unloaded start in the US.

[Slavex]

As mentioned above we see all sorts of starts, from this type to gun and mags on seperate tables and all sorts of silliness in between. It's good fun though, and does add a different level of difficulty to the start.
As for the stitches, thankfully the CZ has a nicely tapered design to the sight, if it was a different design though I imagine that it would eat through the hand pretty quick.