Giant spiders moving north

[peterb]

They're huge, have eight blue-black and yellow striped legs, and could soon move into most of the Eastern Seaboard of the U.S.

A study published in the journal Physiological Entomology says that the palm-sized joro spider, which has been largely confined to warmer southeastern states for nearly a decade, could soon be expected to colonize regions with colder climates.

That's because researchers have discovered the large arachnids have a higher probability of surviving a brief freeze than other closely related species of the same genus.

A joro spider can grow to be about 3 inches long, including a large bulbous body with bright yellow stripes. Its underbelly has distinctive red markings, and it weaves large webs that look as if they're spun from golden silk.

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084692989/beware-the-joro-spider-scientists-say-the-giant-but-harmless-arachnid-is-spreadi

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"People should try to learn to live with them," Andy Davis, a research scientist in the Odum School of Ecology and one of the authors behind the recent study, told UGA Today, a publication by the University of Georgia.

[LOKNLOD]

Hmm... where's that article about reversing climate change with nuclear winter? It might be time to try that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is why we need 30 round magazines. We had tarantulas walking up the side of the house and some monster golden spider weaving a web across the back yard entrance in TX. Told p-f before of my friend who used a 12 gauge on a tarantula walking into her house in the SW and wrecking her family's hard wood fancy floor. Scorpions marched across our kitchen floor and climbed the walls.

So we got monster spiders, giant snakes, macaques, wild pigs, etc. on the loose. Hank the Tank and beavers march to Alaska. Damn geese on the roof next door honking away! The coyotes howl and deer look into our bedrooom window at night. Gaea is striking back.

[awp_101]

"People should try to learn to live with them," Andy Davis, a research scientist in the Odum School of Ecology and one of the authors behind the recent study, told UGA Today, a publication by the University of Georgia.
If by “learn to live with them” they mean “kill them with fire”, I’m onboard.

[peterb]

They’re sporting the Ukrainian colors. ;-)

[SD]

This spider claimed our front window last year, it was very fast and aggressive. (my excuse for not washing these windows).

85520

[RevolverRob]

I have arachnophobia. The irrational fear of spiders. Intellectually, I recognize their value in the ecosystem and that spiders and scorpions mean me no harm. But on a visceral level - fire is my preferred way of dealing with them.

All that said, I appreciate the study of their physiology to understand how they may spread here. But I'm not sure I "get it". I read the abstract for the paper and I'm working to download it through an institutional account to review. But the premise is a study of physiology between two invasive spiders. But there appears to be no accounting for a base level of information available: the information from their home range.

In other words, what is their native distribution with respect to habitat and climate variables. They measure physiological traits and infer a connection between those traits and freeze tolerance. But let's stop for a moment - do Joro spiders have a range in Japan where they commonly encounter freezing conditions? (Yes they do). Therefore, why would we assume from the outset that freeze tolerance was a limiting factor in their ability to distribute in a new environment?

This is one of the two common fallacies I see in these types of studies:

The first; assuming an invasive is somehow no longer bound by physiological limits it experienced in its native range. In other words assuming once a species moves in it can "reset" its biology, that is rarely, if ever, true.

The second; assuming an invasive is somehow ONLY bound by the limits it experienced in its native range. Which is also rarely true.

---

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like studies that try to understand the traits which serve to limit species distributions. I've written papers like that myself and I'm working on another right now. But I do think it's a lesson to learn that there is a baseline of data available, merely by evaluating a species natural distribution, that often gets overlooked. Simultaneously, that data can be over interpreted and a "science stopper" at an early stage.

I don't know enough about spider physiology, but I might have opted to compare Joro to another large, native, spider that has a similar range as the projected range of Joro would if they have a freeze tolerance. That to me would be a convincing link between the physiological traits and freeze tolerance.

All this academic babbling - I'm not trying to be mean to the authors of this study or denigrate what they did. Instead, I see they fell into a common academic trap with this work and I see how it could be improved. And unfortunately, by publicizing their study - they open themselves up to this scrutiny level without really trying. Media coverage is a double edged sword for academics and I hope the PI supervising this work (work was authored by a grad student and undergrad) sat them down and prepared them for the reality of harsh criticism due to media coverage. In my experience, I doubt that happened.

[entropy]

I have the same issue with snakes, poisonous or not. My high pitched kindergarten girly voice is still careening thru the universe over this discovery a few years back... 6 total living in the mower.

85527

85528

[awp_101]

They’re sporting the Ukrainian colors. ;-)

Not enough. In fact they could have Old Glory markings all over and it wouldn’t be enough.


I have the same issue with snakes, poisonous or not. My high pitched kindergarten girly voice is still careening thru the universe over this discovery a few years back... 6 total living in the mower.

85527

85528

Snakes don’t bother me but that’s an entirely reasonable response to unexpectedly finding 6 when your not looking…

[Totem Polar]

Where I am at with all this:


https://c.tenor.com/_mCy-yVSgiAAAAAC/spider-fire.gif

[Lex Luthier]

It does make me wonder how fat the birds and small mammal predators in the new range are going to get from these things. That's a fair bit of protein on stilts.

[Jared]

I have the same issue with snakes, poisonous or not. My high pitched kindergarten girly voice is still careening thru the universe over this discovery a few years back... 6 total living in the mower.

85527

85528

If I’d have found that, then the mower would have been his. I would have noped my way straight to the lawnmower buying place and had me a new one…..

[Darth_Uno]

This spider claimed our front window last year, it was very fast and aggressive. (my excuse for not washing these windows).



We get those behind our shop every year. I think they're cool, and leave 'em alone. Kinda neat to see em get bigger and bigger all summer.

We get a few snakes too. They're not interested in me, and I just let them go on about their business.

85533

[SD]

In Nashville we had a barn built. Day after starting to move stuff in this unwelcome visitor appeared. Wife still checks her bike seat before riding.

8554585547

[JclInAtx]

That is one big ass spider. We get the garden spiders in the yard from time to time and they seem big but they're only an inch or so long in the body. Tarantula occasionally come in the yard too, but they're very docile.

The scorpians are no good as they come inside. Oh, and these things
85560

Texas big red headed centapede. That's the first one of those I ever saw, and on my daughter's play house on our deck. It may play an important part in the food chain, but not in my yard, hell no!

[peterb]

My favorite spider moment was driving down a dirt road in Arizona and clearly seeing a spider in the road from the driver’s seat. That doesn’t happen it the northeast. :-)

Stopped, got out, walked up to take a look. Big grey tarantula. Very cool.

[Joe in PNG]

Spotted this cousin of joro's a few months back:

85564

Yes, that's my finger.

[LittleLebowski]

I’ll take snakes all day over scorpions or centipedes.

[1911Nut]

Not a spider, but this guy (seen frequently here in AZ) tops my list for creepiest.

Vinegaroon (Thelyphonida)

"Whip Scorpion"

Non venomous, but you don't want to get bit by one anyway.

85570

These little bastards have caused me to run into more fences, walls, and trees and contributed to my ability to do a 36" standing vertical leap than any rattlesnake I have ever encountered.

My theory is that the person in the photo holding it in his hand is deceased. I know I would have to be in order to hold one.

[GearFondler]

The scorpians are no good as they come inside. Oh, and these things
85560

Texas big red headed centapede. That's the first one of those I ever saw, and on my daughter's play house on our deck. It may play an important part in the food chain, but not in my yard, hell no!

Anything smart enough to operate that many legs should be considered a serious threat.

[Jared]

I’ll take snakes all day over scorpions or centipedes.

In spite of my previous lawnmower post, I agree. Honestly, my ass should live further north than I do. North Dakota actually sounds pretty good to me.

[Sensei]

I have the same issue with snakes, poisonous or not. My high pitched kindergarten girly voice is still careening thru the universe over this discovery a few years back... 6 total living in the mower.


That could just be a corn snake (non-venomous). However, could you please get closer and take a clearer picture of the head so that I can be sure? Thanks.

[entropy]

They are Pine Snakes. Common where we are. Non-poisonous. Mimics a rattler by shaking its tail. This is one of the ones from the mower. Once I realized the whole thing was infested...I settled down a bit. It was that first opening of the hood that got my attention.

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[Sensei]

Yep and thanks. Cute little guy.

Truth be told, Americans live a rather carefree life when it comes to sharing the habitat. I’ve spent some time in East Africa and Australia where Mother Nature is always trying scare the piss out of you and sometimes trying to kill you. On our first day in Cairns Australia, my wife and I hurried under a tree to get some shelter from the rain downpours that come every hour. My wife looked up an said, “Wow, look at those huge birds.” A local who happens to be passing by said, “Those ain’t birds lady, birds don’t hang upside down.” The bats were so big that they are called flying foxes…

[Joe S]

It does make me wonder how fat the birds and small mammal predators in the new range are going to get from these things. That's a fair bit of protein on stilts.

My thought process went: is it poisonous? No? Good. My one cat is a total murderer and he's been bored lately.

[peterb]

Yep and thanks. Cute little guy.

Truth be told, Americans live a rather carefree life when it comes to sharing the habitat. I’ve spent some time in East Africa and Australia where Mother Nature is always trying scare the piss out of you and sometimes trying to kill you. On our first day in Cairns Australia, my wife and I hurried under a tree to get some shelter from the rain downpours that come every hour. My wife looked up an said, “Wow, look at those huge birds.” A local who happens to be passing by said, “Those ain’t birds lady, birds don’t hang upside down.” The bats were so big that they are called flying foxes…


Flying fox at a wildlife rehab center.
85588

They’re fruit eaters. Important for seed distribution.

[CSW]

Never met a spider that can withstand a blast of Brakecleen. Chlorinated or not.
Just sayin.....35 years as a mechanic.

We have Barn spiders up here in NH. Bodies the size of a grape tomato.

https://spideridentifications.com/barn.html

[peterb]

Another spider experience, don’t know if it’s a New England thing. Swimming rafts are pulled out of lakes for the winter. The old ones were usually wood with foam or drum flotation. Spiders would nest in them while they were on shore, and would still be on board when the rafts were put out in the spring. So the first time several people climbed on the raft and sank it a bit, the displaced spiders would move up and out onto the deck….

They sudden emergence of several large spiders amidst folks in bathing suits could be highly entertaining. :-)

[Joe Mac]

Never met a spider that can withstand a blast of Brakecleen. Chlorinated or not.
Just sayin.....35 years as a mechanic.

Gun Scrubber is pretty much the same stuff, no? It's my favorite bug killer.

[Caballoflaco]

Yep and thanks. Cute little guy.

Truth be told, Americans live a rather carefree life when it comes to sharing the habitat. I’ve spent some time in East Africa and Australia where Mother Nature is always trying scare the piss out of you and sometimes trying to kill you. On our first day in Cairns Australia, my wife and I hurried under a tree to get some shelter from the rain downpours that come every hour. My wife looked up an said, “Wow, look at those huge birds.” A local who happens to be passing by said, “Those ain’t birds lady, birds don’t hang upside down.” The bats were so big that they are called flying foxes…

It’s estimated that snake bites kill close to 60,000 people a year in India and maybe close to 1,000,000 world wide.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scroll.in/article/987003/despite-being-undercounted-india-has-the-most-snakebite-deaths-in-the-world


The 2011 paper estimated that 46,000 snakebite deaths took place in India in 2005. The 2020 paper estimated the annual deaths from snakebites to be an average of 58,000 (12 lakh snakebite deaths between 2000 and 2019). The World Health Organization acknowledged this in 2019, saying that the 2011 study showed that the estimate of snakebite deaths in India is 30 times higher than the Indian government’s figure for the same period.

In 2019, the WHO said that 81,000-1,38,000 people die annually from snakebites globally. Seeing this in light of the 2020 study would mean that the Indian deaths from snakebites occupy the bulk of the global toll.

[Joe in PNG]

Madang PNG is famous for the hundreds of thousands of flying fox bats that nest in the trees of the town. In the evening, you'll see large flocks flying out over Astrolabe bay.

[Gun Mutt]

Another spider experience, don’t know if it’s a New England thing. Swimming rafts are pulled out of lakes for the winter. The old ones were usually wood with foam or drum flotation. Spiders would nest in them while they were on shore, and would still be on board when the rafts were put out in the spring. So the first time several people climbed on the raft and sank it a bit, the displaced spiders would move up and out onto the deck….

They sudden emergence of several large spiders amidst folks in bathing suits could be highly entertaining. :-)

Yeah, fuck that. Not okay with this happening in my world. Just added another reason to confine all of my swimming to quality pools.

[CSW]

Yeah, fuck that. Not okay with this happening in my world. Just added another reason to confine all of my swimming to quality pools.😁🤣😁🤣

[4RNR]

That is one big ass spider. We get the garden spiders in the yard from time to time and they seem big but they're only an inch or so long in the body. Tarantula occasionally come in the yard too, but they're very docile.

The scorpians are no good as they come inside. Oh, and these things
85560

Texas big red headed centapede. That's the first one of those I ever saw, and on my daughter's play house on our deck. It may play an important part in the food chain, but not in my yard, hell no!I'm glad I googled that before bed!

Im ok with pretty much anything... except bug/insects. Anything more scary than a butterfly and I'm running like a little girl. Snakes and rodents don't bother me.

Basically if it has more than 4 legs it gets nukes from orbit

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[frozentundra]

Lately I've been thinking about moving somewhere with less than 3 seasons of winter. We're still in the beginning of 3rd winter, and I'm getting cabin fever after another 2 foot snow dump.

Think I'll stay here on planet Hoth after all; I've hardly seen a bug since September. F those spiders and snakes.

[JHC]

85657

That's the biggest one I've seen/killed.

We were covered up in Joro's last year and working my yard, my neighbor on my north side, and my neighbor's 3 acres to my east I'm sure I killed a thousand of them.

Aerosols were good but burn out too fast in the target rich environment. Black Flag spider spray had the best reach and sprayed effectively for the most blasts than any of a handful of other brands.

But what I settled on was a salt shooter for the easiest, closest to reach. Economical and just plain satisfying as heck.

Then the King of Battle was the 1 gal pump sprayer with insecticide. Good reach to ~ 15 feet or so and economical for industrial scale Joro war.

But, there was the problem of the high out of reach girls. For those I went with a smoothbore bb gun. I wore out a Daisy Red Rider and then replaced it with a Daisy Model 35. It was like $35 on Amazon and has an adjustable rear sight and a 50 bb magazine.

Smoothbore IMO is pretty critical for bb's accuracy wise. I got a LOT of great trigger presses shooting high Joro's out of the trees. More fun than the salt shooter even. I think my longest hits were in the 45-50 foot range. Usually took a few tries and there were really long shots were I may have shot 20 to get a hit. Pretty much any hit leads to the end of that Joro.

If they come back equally thick this year (I interdicted about 1.5M eggs @ 1000 x 1500 eggs laid) I don't know that my plan is.

[Caballoflaco]

I just hope the fact that they usually ride the wind to migrate means that it will take them a little longer to get back west to Alabama.

[JHC]

I just hope the fact that they usually ride the wind to migrate means that it will take them a little longer to get back west to Alabama.

My hope is while the ballooning will bring some more back in to my AO, surely it can't be numbers like last year right? Right?

What's really awful is on any given Sunday I have killed every Joro on my property; say 6. And this is when they're too big to be riding the wind on a stand of web. Then next day, there's 8 big ones that have taken their place. Too big to ride a breeze. So they're all around crawling across the ground at night to a new place to set up.

I used to like to sleep out with my smoker on the long brisket smokes. Ruined that. LOL

I dreamt of these monsters a couple times last year. Once after hours of working these properties on a hot Saturday slaying big numbers, like a hundred easy, I get in the shower and close my eyes up into the water spray and there's the outline of Joro under my eyelids in my brain. Is that PTSD or what? ;)

[Caballoflaco]

My hope is while the ballooning will bring some more back in to my AO, surely it can't be numbers like last year right? Right?

What's really awful is on any given Sunday I have killed every Joro on my property; say 6. And this is when they're too big to be riding the wind on a stand of web. Then next day, there's 8 big ones that have taken their place. Too big to ride a breeze. So they're all around crawling across the ground at night to a new place to set up.

I used to like to sleep out with my smoker on the long brisket smokes. Ruined that. LOL

I dreamt of these monsters a couple times last year. Once after hours of working these properties on a hot Saturday slaying big numbers, like a hundred easy, I get in the shower and close my eyes up into the water spray and there's the outline of Joro under my eyelids in my brain. Is that PTSD or what? ;)

I had no idea that they would populate an area that densely. I’ve always enjoyed our banana spiders and golden orb spiders as long as they’re over there in their web and not crawling on me, but they tend to be more spread out.

[blues]

Coming "Soon™"...

https://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/20634_1.jpg

[frozentundra]

Aerosols were good but burn out too fast in the target rich environment. Black Flag spider spray had the best reach and sprayed effectively for the most blasts than any of a handful of other brands.

But what I settled on was a salt shooter for the easiest, closest to reach. Economical and just plain satisfying as heck.

Then the King of Battle was the 1 gal pump sprayer with insecticide. Good reach to ~ 15 feet or so and economical for industrial scale Joro war.



Last year I learned that regular soapy water kills wasps as good or better than insect killer. I didn't believe it would work until I tried it for myself. Apparently they breath through their skin, through small holes called spiracles, and the dish soap plugs up the holes. Wasps suffocate very quickly once coated in soapy water.

I have read that most spiders have a similar method of breathing. It may be worth experimenting with a reasonably concentrated dish soap solution in a pump sprayer or squirt gun of choice. I'd rather deal with soap than insecticide if I was in your position and frequent, perennial exposure seemed likely to happen. Especially if it's around the house.

A sane man would just cut his losses and run FAR away, but you seem crazy enough to stay and fight back. You're a braver man than I! Good luck to you!

[Lex Luthier]

Lately I've been thinking about moving somewhere with less than 3 seasons of winter. We're still in the beginning of 3rd winter, and I'm getting cabin fever after another 2 foot snow dump.

Think I'll stay here on planet Hoth after all; I've hardly seen a bug since September. F those spiders and snakes.

This is what I tell my CA friends when they ask me why I moved here to Frostbite Falls.

85669

[awp_101]

Why do I keep opening this thread?:confused: I need to up my dose of Damitol…

[JHC]

Last year I learned that regular soapy water kills wasps as good or better than insect killer. I didn't believe it would work until I tried it for myself. Apparently they breath through their skin, through small holes called spiracles, and the dish soap plugs up the holes. Wasps suffocate very quickly once coated in soapy water.

I have read that most spiders have a similar method of breathing. It may be worth experimenting with a reasonably concentrated dish soap solution in a pump sprayer or squirt gun of choice. I'd rather deal with soap than insecticide if I was in your position and frequent, perennial exposure seemed likely to happen. Especially if it's around the house.

A sane man would just cut his losses and run FAR away, but you seem crazy enough to stay and fight back. You're a braver man than I! Good luck to you!

Shit! What a great idea. Dawn dish soap! Is there anything it can't do! (Homer Simpson voice).

Yeah I was pretty committed to close with the Joros. It was great situational awareness sharpening moving through a lot of brush and not getting surprised badly by moving through a space so much as a step without getting tangled.

[Darth_Uno]

I had no idea that they would populate an area that densely. I’ve always enjoyed our banana spiders and golden orb spiders as long as they’re over there in their web and not crawling on me, but they tend to be more spread out.

That's where I'm at. I really don't mind snakes and spiders. As long as they're not sneaking up on me. If they're just "over there somewhere", that's fine.

FTR I do kill brown recluses. Don't have too many at home but we have plenty at our shop. Garden and banana spiders - they're fine. Wolf spiders - they do their own thing, as long as you leave 'em alone. Brown recluses - nasty vicious little buggers. If you take a box off a shelf that a brown recluse was underneath, they will run towards you.

[Joe in PNG]

Coming "Soon™"...

https://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/20634_1.jpg

PACKERS!!!!!! WOOOOOO!!!!!

(Riff from the MST3K episode featuring the still in question)

[CraigS]

Never met a spider that can withstand a blast of Brakecleen. Chlorinated or not.
Just sayin.....35 years as a mechanic.

We have Barn spiders up here in NH. Bodies the size of a grape tomato.

https://spideridentifications.com/barn.html

Me too. A couple months ago I showed my 6 and 9 year old grandsons how that works. They were thrilled. If we will be getting larger ones I will need to get this out.
https://www.amazon.com/Button-Igniter-Propane-Melter-Roofing/dp/B01KH6L32K/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=propane+ice+melter&qid=1646749447&sr=8-9

[Glenn E. Meyer]

TX spider:

85745

Between the fence and house. The neighbor wanted it for his grandkid, so I let him capture it.

[CSW]

TX spider:

85745

Between the fence and house. The neighbor wanted it for his grandkid, so I let him capture it.

Yeah, no!

[OlongJohnson]

Amongst all the not-so-cool ones, I get a lot of these here in SE TX. I like them.

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/galveston/beneficials/beneficial-23_spiny_orb_weaver_spider.htm

85747

[Clusterfrack]

https://www.weidert.com/hs-fs/hubfs/blog_images/ripley.jpg

[JclInAtx]

My hope is while the ballooning will bring some more back in to my AO, surely it can't be numbers like last year right? Right?

What's really awful is on any given Sunday I have killed every Joro on my property; say 6. And this is when they're too big to be riding the wind on a stand of web. Then next day, there's 8 big ones that have taken their place. Too big to ride a breeze. So they're all around crawling across the ground at night to a new place to set up.

I used to like to sleep out with my smoker on the long brisket smokes. Ruined that. LOL

I dreamt of these monsters a couple times last year. Once after hours of working these properties on a hot Saturday slaying big numbers, like a hundred easy, I get in the shower and close my eyes up into the water spray and there's the outline of Joro under my eyelids in my brain. Is that PTSD or what? ;)

The garden spiders we get don't really bother me, but we only get maybe a dozen a year. That many in a week might bother me. Around here people put up bat boxes and purple Martin houses to combat mosquitoes. Maybe it could work for spiders too? Or a screech owl box. Anecdotally when we have owls in the box I only see garden spiders in the same place for a couple of days. Previously they might stay in the same place for a week.