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Sparks2112
08-27-2012, 12:02 PM
I recently received a free NFA trust as a nice work perk and my father, who is on the trust with me is planning on purchasing an SR-15e3 CQB. Can anyone offer general thoughts on the platform? I've got my own opinions but I'm not a SME on the topic. Aside from cost what do people think?

JMS
08-27-2012, 12:27 PM
KAC makes an excellent gun, no question. They're reliable as hell, very mechanically accurate, nimble, "feel" good to shoot, the works. Love to shoot them, can't say enough good about them.

I won't, however, personally own one, simply on the basis of not liking the idea of depending upon exclusive/proprietary parts. Their CS is top-notch, but in my mind can't reasonably compete with being able to just hit a local brick-and-mortar store for standardized, common AR parts in those instances where I might want to fix a gun as NOW as possible. That's not a universal capability, either, though; a standard-pattern AR owner living somewhere where such shops are rare would be as equally dependent upon phone/internet to source parts or shipping the thing for warranty work or repairs.

I still drool slightly when I see them, though, and would pick one up in a heartbeat if I ever fall into or start making f-you money. If the thing isn't gonna be run like a gov't mule, then fretting over parts breakage isn't necessarily a huge concern.

GJM
08-27-2012, 01:46 PM
I had one (with the 16 inch barrel) and ran it and an AK thru a 5 day Gunsite class. I only remember a single stoppage, and that was with one frangible round -- added more lube, and no recurrences. Shot good but not any better than my Bravo Company 16 inch LW mid-weight uppers -- in other words it is just an AR. Ultimately sold it for the same reason, assuming such a thing existed, I wouldn't have a proprietary Glock like pistol that wouldn't use Glock parts. As a counterpoint, I have seen on other forums where folks gush about this carbine, so maybe I just don't have the appreciation for the subtle ways the Knight is better.

orionz06
08-27-2012, 01:51 PM
I think for the price you can have a BCM-Colt-DD-Noveske AR, trigger of choice, all the ambi parts of choice, stock of choice, an optic, spare bolt and carrier, spare small parts, and still have money left over to do the same thing. Without knowing an exact price I think you could almost get 2 guns even.

LittleLebowski
08-27-2012, 01:54 PM
KAC makes an excellent gun, no question. They're reliable as hell, very mechanically accurate, nimble, "feel" good to shoot, the works. Love to shoot them, can't say enough good about them.

I won't, however, personally own one, simply on the basis of not liking the idea of depending upon exclusive/proprietary parts. Their CS is top-notch, but in my mind can't reasonably compete with being able to just hit a local brick-and-mortar store for standardized, common AR parts in those instances where I might want to fix a gun as NOW as possible. That's not a universal capability, either, though; a standard-pattern AR owner living somewhere where such shops are rare would be as equally dependent upon phone/internet to source parts or shipping the thing for warranty work or repairs.

I still drool slightly when I see them, though, and would pick one up in a heartbeat if I ever fall into or start making f-you money. If the thing isn't gonna be run like a gov't mule, then fretting over parts breakage isn't necessarily a huge concern.

Oddly enough, NoVA Armament in Herndon is a brick and mortar store and does carry KAC parts and rifles. Plus, you can use a standard bolt if you must in a KAC 5.56 gun.

Sparks2112
08-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Yeah cost aside, we are actually direct with KAC so it's not actually ridiculously priced. Besides, he makes f you money, so I guess I'll tell him to buy a spare bolt while he's at it. I think the plan is to mate it with one of their T3 brakes and a NT4 suppressor. Though who knows with him.

I will say we regularly stock DD, Bravo, noveske, LWRCI, and HK as well as KAC. Having handled all of them the Knights just "feels" better. Not that that means anything really.

Kyle Reese
08-27-2012, 04:10 PM
I've got an SR15E3 IWS that I'm immensely pleased with and wouldn't part with for any amount of money.

I've run it in several KD/LAV/Tiger Swan classes, as well as local courses in the NOVA area for about 3 years now with great success. The only problem encountered was a piece of a blown primer from surplus Radway Green (RORG89) SS109 ammo that wedged itself inside the firing pin channel in the bolt, rendering the weapon inoperable until it was fixed with some compressed air. Using newly manufactured M855/M193 type loads I've never had an issue with this carbine, and it has about 10,000 rounds thru it now.

If you've got the cash, go for it. You won't be sorry.

JSGlock34
08-27-2012, 05:54 PM
I've had excellent experience with my KAC SR-15E3, to include a three day Vickers Tactical class at Blackwater. I figured out early that it does not like cheap steel cased .223 ammo, but since switching to XM193 I've had several thousand problem free rounds. Fellow shooters who try it out almost always remark on the light weight and excellent balance.

Debate on the SR-15 always seems to center around the proprietary bolt and barrel extension. My take is that I'll worry about the E3 bolt as soon as someone posts pictures of a broken E3 bolt. To my knowledge, it hasn't happened yet. The bolt is designed to last the life of the cold hammer forged barrel, and KAC guarantees the bolt for 20K rounds.

It is a good time to be in the market for an AR. The market is saturated with quality ARs - as others have mentioned, BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense and Noveske all make top quality products using MILSPEC components (and I say that as a Colt 6920 and Noveske Mk18 owner). Instead of putting their rollmark on yet another AR15 clone, I give KAC credit for actually improving the AR platform with ambidextrous controls and improved part life - but the cost of that innovation is some proprietary parts. And I'm okay with that. How are we going to realize any performance enhancements without deviating from the formula?

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/IMG_1035.jpg

Vinh
08-27-2012, 07:08 PM
To me, the price isn't an issue because every time the rifle comes up on M4C, someone does a price analysis and discovers that it's a decent value. The only thing that bugs me is that the KAC reps are adamant that the gun is good for 20k rounds with no parts breakage, but I have doubts that the trigger will last that long. That said, I'm about 90% close to purchasing one because I don't mind the configuration and it's pretty much ready to go out of the box.

YVK
08-27-2012, 09:51 PM
I've seen two KAC carbines taken through a high-volume classes and, based on that, have formed a negative opinion about the brand. Since then I tend to notice negative aspects mostly, so KAC maybe one of a few companies that I have a bias against, in fairness of a disclosure.

Kyle Reese
08-27-2012, 09:58 PM
To me, the price isn't an issue because every time the rifle comes up on M4C, someone does a price analysis and discovers that it's a decent value. The only thing that bugs me is that the KAC reps are adamant that the gun is good for 20k rounds with no parts breakage, but I have doubts that the trigger will last that long. That said, I'm about 90% close to purchasing one because I don't mind the configuration and it's pretty much ready to go out of the box.

Worst case you can opt to replace the KAC 2 stage trigger with one of your choice and sell the KAC trigger quickly on any number of EE's.

After tomorrow my SR15 will have a Geiselle SD-C trigger and BCM GF grip.

Sparks2112
08-28-2012, 01:05 AM
Worst case you can opt to replace the KAC 2 stage trigger with one of your choice and sell the KAC trigger quickly on any number of EE's.

After tomorrow my SR15 will have a Geiselle SD-C trigger and BCM GF grip.

Will the bcm GF grip retain the goofy ambi control springs without modification?

rob_s
08-28-2012, 04:20 AM
The last time I did the math the SR15 was actually a great value when you add up the cost to assemble it yourself from the same or similar parts.

The proprietary thing bothered me a bit too, but as-mentioned a standard bolt is supposed to work in the gun if necessary. Also, the revised lug design is supposed to add life to the part so it shouldn't need replacing as often.

JMS
08-28-2012, 10:23 AM
Oddly enough, NoVA Armament in Herndon is a brick and mortar store and does carry KAC parts and rifles. Plus, you can use a standard bolt if you must in a KAC 5.56 gun.

Hmph....knew the second, didn't know the first. It still comes down to being a functionally no different CBA than that of DI/piston, to me; I'd pull the trigger on the purchase, but only if it fulfills certain requirements....which don't exist for me.

I see somebody with a KAC gun, I'm not saying or thinking "WTF are you doing with THAT thing...!?" I'm saying:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2420/luckyyy.jpg

Timbonez
08-31-2012, 02:20 PM
I've seen two KAC carbines taken through a high-volume classes and, based on that, have formed a negative opinion about the brand. Since then I tend to notice negative aspects mostly, so KAC maybe one of a few companies that I have a bias against, in fairness of a disclosure.

Care to explain what happened?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

YVK
08-31-2012, 11:12 PM
Care to explain what happened?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

One was run by an instructor whose round count through a KAC rifle was/is often used as a supportive data to KAC's rifles durability. He said it was a good rifle but he wouldnt feed it certain ammo for reliability concerns and (quote) "it tears up the chamber". I have no clue what the latter statement meant. However, what I know is that the ammo brands he mentioned was the stuff I had shot without any problems through MSTN, BCM, and SCAR. I am not talking cheap steel cased brown bear. Given that this was just during the post-2008 elections run on guns and ammo, it didn't make me feel too enthusiastic about the rifle.

The second occurrence was an SR15 that couldn't go through first two hours of TD1 of Pat Rogers' class in hands of an experienced user. That I saw with own eyes. Pat and Mike know something about ARs, but they couldn't do anything. The shooter went through the class with zero problems using same ammo through a different rifle.

As I had said, I have an anti-KAC bias for number of reasons, these above just two of them. I am sure there is large number of KAC enthusiasts, including those who have already posted here, who have a well-supported opinion to a contrary.

Sparks2112
09-01-2012, 06:23 AM
It's my understanding that the earlier examples were pretty much built to run only government contract ammo and were finnicky at best with anything else. If you do some digging KAC reps have acknowledged this several times publicly. Compared to how certain manufactures coughGlockcough handle the issue when they have a gun with problems it's actually nice to see. The newer rifles will supposedly run almost anything. Guess we will see.

YVK
09-01-2012, 11:58 AM
It's my understanding that the earlier examples were pretty much built to run only government contract ammo and were finnicky at best with anything else. If you do some digging KAC reps have acknowledged this several times publicly. Compared to how certain manufactures coughGlockcough handle the issue when they have a gun with problems it's actually nice to see. The newer rifles will supposedly run almost anything. Guess we will see.

True.
In the second case the class was two years ago and the SR15 was new production, brand new in fact, with an adjusted size of a gas port. I suspect the rifle was a lemon.

Timbonez
09-05-2012, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the info. I'm considering buying a SR-15.

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LittleLebowski
09-05-2012, 10:44 AM
Aside from a rock getting in the lower receiver, I watched FredM's SR15 run flawlessly in blowing sand and rain at a Defoor class.

Kyle Reese
09-05-2012, 10:51 AM
Aside from a rock getting in the lower receiver, I watched FredM's SR15 run flawlessly in blowing sand and rain at a Defoor class.

Not to mention my Lancer 30 round AWM's taking a massive dump after sand getting in the drain hole on the bottom of the mag. No such issues with PMAGs or ARCs that day.

C45P312
09-05-2012, 09:35 PM
As long as you run quality 5.56 ammo and buy the complete KAC SR15e3 CQB, there shouldn't be a problem.

I've seen the 16in ones not run as reliable with 223 ammo, especially frangible, though they may be the older production SR15s.

Slavex
09-06-2012, 04:21 AM
I ran a KAC on Kens Hackathorn's 2 day course last year when I had him up. I learned all sorts about clearing jams using that gun. We never did figure out what it's issue was, mags, ammo, position of the moon whatever, but upon being returned to its owner it ran fine. I cleaned aluminum dust out of the buffer tube a few times, all gummy with oil, so maybe it finally wore in the part that needed to be worn in. It wasn't a factory built gun though, and in talking to KevinB from KAC, the problems I experienced weren't surprising to him. I've since run a couple other SR15s with no issues at all, a local agency got one for trialing and put 1200 rounds through it in one day with zero issues. If and when my Colt packs it in I'll be buying an SR15, although I'd rather have a heavy barrel and no launcher cut on the barrel. But that's me.