Visitiing Colorado with a Handgun with CC from Virginia

[cclaxton]

I am writing this from Estes Park, CO and in the middle of a vacation out here. In order to transport and carry my pistol while I stayed one night in Boulder and two nights in Estes Park and a lot of time in Rocky Mountain National Park, I had to figure out what is allowed in each jurisdication since in Colorado, local jurisdictions are allowed to create their own local laws around firearms. This, of course, creates a nightmare in trying to figure out each jurisdiction's laws and their boundaries. I ended up writing the State Police and calling each local jurisdiction and the National Park Service to get the final answers.

1) You are allowed to conceal or open-carry a loaded handgun in your vehicle anywhere in the State of Colorado according to the State Police. "Pursuant to state law, a person may have handgun in the interior of their vehicle for the purpose of lawful self-protection, while traveling through the state. The handgun does not have to kept in its case or be unloaded." Aurora, CO does not agree with the State Law and thus has an ordinance against carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle in Aurora. If you are up for the court battle, go ahead, but I recommend keeping it cased and unloaded while in Aurora.
2) Colorado does not provide concealed-carry reciprocity for Viriginia because Virginia does not recognize Colorado's Concealed Carry permit. According to those I spoke with they think the Colorado requirements are too lax for Virginia. Hard to believe. However, if you have a Utah permit, it does recognize that. HOWEVER, each jurisdiction can enact their own firearms laws and many have. There are currently concealed-carry bans in: Aurora, Boulder, Broomfield, Colorado Springs, Denver, Englewood, Lakewood, Littleton, Longmont, Northglenn, Pueblo, Thornton, Westminster, Wheat Ridge. Outside of these jurisdictions, your Utah permit is recognized, or if another reciprocal state, would be recognized. Source: http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/munilaws.htm.
3) Open-Carry is legal in Colorado unless it is banned by a local jurisdiction. Here is a list of jurisdications that have open-carry bans: Boulder, Brighton, Broomfield, Cortez, Denver, Evans, Lafayette, Steamboat Springs, Thornton. Source: http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/munilaws.htm
4) There are a number of other local ordinances that restrict where and how and when you can possess and use a firearm: http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/munilaws.htm for more information.
5) The National Parks all conform to the Colorado Laws and do not have any "local" ordinances that control. Therefore open-carry is legal and concealed-carry is legal as long as you have reciprocity with Colorado.

When I arrived at the airport, I did have to stop in Aurora and kept my handgun cased and unloaded in the trunk. Once I got out of Aurora I loaded my handgun and put it in the center glove box for the trip to Boulder. Once I arrived at my hotel in Boulder, I put it into my portable GunVault (which I always bring with me and highy recommend it or something similar while travelling), and took it into the hotel room. I kept it loaded on my bedstand in the hotel room. Next morning I put it into the Gunvault, took it to the car, and back in the center console box. Once I got out of Boulder, I was able to holster-up and open-carry.

Luckily my final destination was in Estes Park, CO and the National Park and Open-Carry is legal there. I was able to go to Starbucks, Safeway and a few local restaurants without any problems, although at one restaurant I did get a stare from one other customer. The cabin I am staying is run by an ex-sheriff and he and I got along just great talking guns and IDPA. Also, no problem carrying in the Rocky Mountain National Park in their visitor centers and hiking and parking and taking pictures. I did get quite a reaction from the cadre of Harley Riders when one of them noticed me open-carrying. (I think they were envious).

So far it has been a great trip. Only pulled out the gun once on the trail when the girlfriend cried "SNAKE!". I carefully walked along the path and just about put a hole in a stick that was threatening to bite us, but it played possum and we left it alone. I hope he doesn't sue me for brandishing.

Tomorrow we drive to Wyoming, reciprocity with Viriginia and lots open-carry anyway. Will not be a problem from here on out.

Coloradoans!....Can you get this fixed??

Thanks,
CC

[MDS]

Thanks for this, dude. I've been planning a move to CO for a year now, and it looks like it's finally happening soon. Florida gun laws are certainly easier to remember! :rolleyes:

[RoyGBiv]

I would disagree with significant portions of the original post...
The way I understand Colorado gun laws is thus...

1. Colorado state law does have state preemption.
2. The state preemption allows localities to make their own laws regarding OPEN CARRY, but not concealed carry.
3. Aurora cannot ban concealed carry by a license holder with a license recognized by the state of CO. Aurora CAN ban open carry by anyone.
4. CO "No guns" signs do not have force of law. Only a verbal request, made by someone with authority to act for the owner, to leave the premises is valid. Failure to leave after being verbally requested would be trespassing.
5. Colorado requires the license holder to have a license from their state of residence. For a long time I lived in TX but carried on a FL permit. This was OK in TX, but not recognized in CO. I got my TX license a few years ago specifically because I was traveling to CO frequently.
6. I am not sure if your VA license gets you the required coverage in CO even if you get a Utah permit. You cover the requirement to have a permit issued by your state of residence plus a permit that's recognized in CO, but, I would guess that's not good enough since your home state permit is not recognized.... You'll need to do some digging on that.

Here is my understanding of CO law including references.

Colorado CC Laws (note: if you try to search the Lexis/Nexis database you need to use IE. FF doesn't work)
Emphasis added by me.
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/CDPS-CBIMain/CBON/1251622199820
http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/Colorado/

Specifically:

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.
[note: "Part 2" refers to the CO CC Permit law which is CO 18 Article 12 Part 2]

and...


29-11.7-101. Legislative declaration
......
(2) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that:
(a) The regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide concern;
(b) It is necessary to provide statewide laws concerning the possession and ownership of a firearm to ensure that law-abiding persons are not unfairly placed in the position of unknowingly committing crimes involving firearms.

and ....

29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting

A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

And finally.....


18-4-201. Definitions

(3) A person "enters unlawfully" or "remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when the person is not licensed, invited, or otherwise privileged to do so. A person who, regardless of his or her intent, enters or remains in or upon premises that are at the time open to the public does so with license and privilege unless the person defies a lawful order not to enter or remain, personally communicated to him or her by the owner of the premises or some other authorized person. <snipped>

The one exception that I'm aware of is Denver's ban on the sale of certain types of weapons. This was upheld by the State Supreme Court in 2006.
http://www.sddt.com/News/article.cfm?SourceCode=200606051s

I am not a lawyer. This is just my personal opinion, not legal advice.

[seabiscuit]

"Concealed carry ban" in C-Springs? I carried there for a couple years, an got my CO CHL in an office in downtown C-Springs.

[cclaxton]

I would disagree with significant portions of the original post...
The way I understand Colorado gun laws is thus...

1. Colorado state law does have state preemption.
2. The state preemption allows localities to make their own laws regarding OPEN CARRY, but not concealed carry.
3. Aurora cannot ban concealed carry by a license holder with a license recognized by the state of CO. Aurora CAN ban open carry by anyone.
4. CO "No guns" signs do not have force of law. Only a verbal request, made by someone with authority to act for the owner, to leave the premises is valid. Failure to leave after being verbally requested would be trespassing.
5. Colorado requires the license holder to have a license from their state of residence. For a long time I lived in TX but carried on a FL permit. This was OK in TX, but not recognized in CO. I got my TX license a few years ago specifically because I was traveling to CO frequently.
6. I am not sure if your VA license gets you the required coverage in CO even if you get a Utah permit. You cover the requirement to have a permit issued by your state of residence plus a permit that's recognized in CO, but, I would guess that's not good enough since your home state permit is not recognized.... You'll need to do some digging on that.

Here is my understanding of CO law including references.

Colorado CC Laws (note: if you try to search the Lexis/Nexis database you need to use IE. FF doesn't work)
Emphasis added by me.
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/CDPS-CBIMain/CBON/1251622199820
http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/Colorado/

Specifically:
[note: "Part 2" refers to the CO CC Permit law which is CO 18 Article 12 Part 2], etc.
The one exception that I'm aware of is Denver's ban on the sale of certain types of weapons. This was upheld by the State Supreme Court in 2006.
http://www.sddt.com/News/article.cfm?SourceCode=200606051s
I am not a lawyer. This is just my personal opinion, not legal advice.

To be clear I am not a lawyer, either. My posting is referencing another source for most of the concealed carry information. Any decisions anyone would make related to travel in Colorado and Wyoming are their own responsibility.

I think you are missing the main point of my posting: As a Virginian, travelling to Colorado WITHOUT a reciprocal CC permit, this was what I found I had to do to stay legal. Reciting Colorado Law (or any State Statute for that matter) does not always define what is happening on the ground where enforcement happens. My goal is to stay within the law AND abide by enforcement practices even if unconstitutional or in conflict. I don't want the hassle, especiallly while I am on vacation. I would rather play it safe. I am not interested in being the guinea pig for a constitutional fight. I would rather accept the practices as they are on the ground.

As I said i actually wrote the CHP Division of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and have their answers on a number of questions directly from a supervisor there. Below is the email response I received:
__________________________________________________ _
Mr. Brown,
I will be travelling to Colorado and Wyoming this summer for vacation and will be bringing my sidearm. I am a concealed carry holder for Virginia and shoot IDPA competitively. I am not LE.
Since I will be in Colorado for three days, I want to make sure I stay within the law while there.

1) I noticed there is no reciprocity with Virginia. I was suprised since Virginia is reciprocal with most States. Can you confirm there is no reciprocity with Virginia and tell me why and who would I write to request that? (Is that regulatory or legislative?), The State of Colorado passes the authority to grant reciprocity to the other states. Therefore in this situation, after having reviewed our concealed carry laws, the State of Virginia has made the decision to not honor Colorado permits. My recommendation would be to contact VA authorities to determine the basis for their determination.
2) Assuming my Va Permit is not reciprocal, I assume that means that while in Denver I would need to keep the firearm in its case and unloaded? Pursuant to state law, a person may have handgun in the interior of their vehicle for the purpose of lawful self-protection, while traveling through the state. The handgun does not have to kept in its case or be unloaded.
3) Assuming my Va Permit is not reciprocal, outside of Dener I could Open-Carry in public places except those specifically off-limits and those posted? The open carrying of firearms is regulated at the local level by individual police departments or in some cases the county sheriff’s offices. The state law does require those local governments to post if the open carrying of firearms is not legally allowed.
4) Assuming my Va Permit is not reciprocal, I can keep my handgun in a concealed area of my vehicle either loaded or unloaded? I assume unloaded means a mag could be in the gun but no round in the chamber? That is correct.

5) 5) I will only be spending one night in Boulder and one day on Denver. Most of my time I will be in Rocky Mountain National Park area. It is my understanding I can Open-Carry there except for specific NPS offices. Is that correct? As this is not a reciprocal issue, you will need to contact the appropriate authorities for the Rocky Mountain National Park in regards to their rules related to the open carrying of firearms within the park.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________

I also called the City of Estes Park, CO and called the NPS Rocky Mountain Park Headquarters to find out the laws and confirm that I am allowed to carry in the open.

All of the other information came from the source that I identified in my original posting. I was simply reciting that source for those that might be travelling to Colorado to other jurisdictions. If you disagree with that source, please write them separately and ask them to correct their information. But I will standy by the information that I gathered related to Aurora vehicle carry, open-carry restrictions in Denver, Aurora and Boulder, concealed carry reciprocity with Virginia, and open-carry in Estes Park and Rocky Mt NP.

Firearm laws are often in the state of litigation for a partiular jurisdiction. For instance, Pennsylvannia is open-carry and concealed-carry friendly, however in the city of Philadelphia if they find you are carrying they will confiscate your weapon and tell you that you can't carry it in Philadelphia. So, while you will not be charged with a crime, you will live without your firearms for months until you go to a hearing to get it back. It is under litigation. Even now in DC, there is pending litigation that would restrict how to transport and possess a firearm in the city, and is under litigation.

I am not interested in becoming the subject of a legal battle between these parties or a guinea pig for an NRA-ILA fight. Do I want to see national CC consistency? YES, but it's not MY fight.

Thanks,
CC

[RoyGBiv]

Apologies if my reply came off a bit strongly worded... After re-reading it, I now realize that your original post is not about licensed concealed carry, as you do not have a license that is valid in CO... You do, in fact, have to deal with a bit of a hodgepodge of local ordinances regarding Open Carry when in CO. Concealed carry is (quite clearly, IMO) regulated solely by state law with a clear preemption of any and all conflicting local ordinances.

Cheers.

[seabiscuit]

I too was confused about not having a valid CO license. Rules are way different for valid CHL holders or those with full reciprocity.