Best 7.62x39 for Home Defense to limit Over-Penetration?

[GlorifiedMailman]

Due to unexpected circumstances, the only firearm I will have available for the foreseeable future for a home defense/bedside gun will be a Bulgarian Arsenal SLR107F AK rifle in 7.62x39. I have owned the rifle for over a decade and have several thousand rounds through it, it has proven to be 100% reliable with all types of ammunition. My question is, despite the un-advantageous position the caliber has in limiting penetration in suburban home defense scenarios, what would limit the risk of overpenetration the most and be effective? From DocGKR's information, it would seem that perhaps the Hornady SST or Russian 8m3 rounds might be the best, but has there been any additional data since then? I do have 8m3 but it is more modern-made ammo. It's my understanding that more recent 8m3 is labelled as such but isn't actually constructed as it was originally.

[witchking777]

Get some Federal Fusion bonded ammo. It expands very well and shouldn't overpenetrate.

[GlorifiedMailman]

Get some Federal Fusion bonded ammo. It expands very well and shouldn't overpenetrate.

I've been looking for some, but according to several sources, Federal has discontinued the Federal Fusion in 7.62x39. I also wonder if a bonded soft point like that would penetrate more or less than a Hornady SST ballistic tip.

[witchking777]

It will penetrate more due to holding together through barriers/bone etc.

[JRB]

Virtually any of the 122-125gr imported steel case ammo with a soft point or hollow point will serve fine in this role. They will expand violently and the jacket usually separates from the core in multiple fragments. Penetration will be substantially less overall than SS109 5.56x45 or virtually all military 5.56 loads for that matter. Obviously, avoid FMJ as it does penetrate much more and tends to have a better chance of holding together.

Various tests I've seen and read over the years on ammo like this backs up my anecdotal experience - 122-125gr HP and SP loads typically show complete jacket and core separation with the core staying as one piece and the jacket fragmenting into multiple pieces. Penetration is usually 12-19in for all fragments in ballistic gel, with the core tending to stay together and penetrate the deepest.

For this role, I'd avoid Tula not because of ballistic performance but because most Tula 7.62x39 usually exhibits a ton more muzzle flash than similar loads from Wolf Military Classic, Barnaul, or Silver Bear. At least, that has been my personal experience though owning about a dozen different AK's and shooting countless tens of thousands of rounds of various cheap x39 ammo over the years.

IMHO, the biggest reason to invest in quality x39 bonded ammo is for hunting when you don't want to fish pieces of jacket and such out of good meat, or for duty use where deeper penetration and barrier blind performance is desired.

[the Schwartz]

I've been looking for some, but according to several sources, Federal has discontinued the Federal Fusion in 7.62x39. I also wonder if a bonded soft point like that would penetrate more or less than a Hornady SST ballistic tip.

If you can't locate any of the Federal Fusion, you might wish to consider attempting to get ahold of some of the Federal 123-gr. Hi-Shok JSP. In 4LD gelatin testing, it typically expands to about 0.64'', retains 95% of its mass, and reaches a penetration depth of ~14 inches. It's not a bonded JSP, but it generally performs well under most imaginable conditions.

[DocGKR]

"Virtually any of the 122-125gr imported steel case ammo with a soft point or hollow point will serve fine in this role. They will expand violently and the jacket usually separates from the core in multiple fragments. Penetration will be substantially less overall than SS109 5.56x45 or virtually all military 5.56 loads for that matter."

This has not been our experience.

[JRB]

"Virtually any of the 122-125gr imported steel case ammo with a soft point or hollow point will serve fine in this role. They will expand violently and the jacket usually separates from the core in multiple fragments. Penetration will be substantially less overall than SS109 5.56x45 or virtually all military 5.56 loads for that matter."

This has not been our experience.

DocGKR, I know your time is valuable, but if you could take a moment to elaborate a bit I'd greatly appreciate the learning experience.

[the Schwartz]

If you can stomach the price of nearly $2 per round, my personal preferred home defense load, the Hornady ''Black'' 7.62x39 123-grain SST is available (for the time being) here:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018227382?pid=601334&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=ammo-seek&utm_campaign=601334

[Brian T]

If you want to do "Mexican Match" ammo, 7.62x39 style, all of the local reloading shops around me have 123gr .311 Hornady SST projectiles at reasonable prices.

[Brian T]

Regarding the 8M3 "Effect" JHP

Many, many, many moons ago I did a photographic comparison of the the various 8M3 bullets on the market on Arfcom, another fella did the same on M4C. I used bullets from the "Sapsan" birdy box, the original blue and white Ulyanovsk box, the first batch of Wolf Military Classic (lacquer case), and the newer Wolf offerings with the poly case coating. I cant find the pics anymore because of Arfcom's crash a few years ago, but I remember that the Sapsan, blue and white box, and original WMC had 4 Vs cut on the inside of the jacket. These were the only Russian JHPs with the cuts.

Of note, there is question as to if the 124gr JHPs coming in as Wolf Military Classic and Tulammo are 8M3.

[4RNR]

Regarding the 8M3 "Effect" JHP

Many, many, many moons ago I did a photographic comparison of the the various 8M3 bullets on the market on Arfcom, another fella did the same on M4C. I used bullets from the "Sapsan" birdy box, the original blue and white Ulyanovsk box, the first batch of Wolf Military Classic (lacquer case), and the newer Wolf offerings with the poly case coating. I cant find the pics anymore because of Arfcom's crash a few years ago, but I remember that the Sapsan, blue and white box, and original WMC had 4 Vs cut on the inside of the jacket. These were the only Russian JHPs with the cuts.

Of note, there is question as to if the 124gr JHPs coming in as Wolf Military Classic and Tulammo are 8M3.Wolf is just a reseller. It's a trademark of Sports Supplies International out of California. They just repackage someone else's ammo. Most of the time Wolf was just Tula but a while ago they had some legal issues so current Wolf is ????

Wolf Gold was PPU except for M193, which is Taiwan. Wolf 22lr is out of Germany

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[JRB]

Wolf is just a reseller. It's a trademark of Sports Supplies International out of California. They just repackage someone else's ammo. Most of the time Wolf was just Tula but a while ago they had some legal issues so current Wolf is ????

Wolf Gold was PPU except for M193, which is Taiwan. Wolf 22lr is out of Germany

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

In the past ~15 years of regularly buying misc cases of Tula, Wolf, and Wolf Military Classic as range blasting ammo, it seemed that TCW was only selling it as Tula, and Wolf was usually Ulyanovsk or Vympel made stuff. I can't recall seeing any flavor of Wolf 7.62x39 that was made by TCW any time in the past 6-8 years at least.

[Suvorov]

In the past ~15 years of regularly buying misc cases of Tula, Wolf, and Wolf Military Classic as range blasting ammo, it seemed that TCW was only selling it as Tula, and Wolf was usually Ulyanovsk or Vympel made stuff. I can't recall seeing any flavor of Wolf 7.62x39 that was made by TCW any time in the past 6-8 years at least.

Last two cases of Wolf I have purchased seem to be Tula based on their circular headstamp markings. It’s the 122gr stuff.

I recently purchased 1000 rounds (2 cases) of the “good stuff” - Barnaul.

I’m going to miss that stuff.

I too am interested in hearing the definitive answer to the OPs question.

[JRB]

Last two cases of Wolf I have purchased seem to be Tula based on their circular headstamp markings. It’s the 122gr stuff.

I recently purchased 1000 rounds (2 cases) of the “good stuff” - Barnaul.

I’m going to miss that stuff.

I too am interested in hearing the definitive answer to the OPs question.

Looking at my pile, it seems the last Wolf x39 I bought was in 2019 so my anecdotal experience isn't current.

I'd be interested to know if your TCW made Wolf has noticeably more muzzle flash, like the other Tulammo branded stuff I bought so much of in years past.

[Suvorov]

Looking at my pile, it seems the last Wolf x39 I bought was in 2019 so my anecdotal experience isn't current.

I'd be interested to know if your TCW made Wolf has noticeably more muzzle flash, like the other Tulammo branded stuff I bought so much of in years past.

It’s pretty flashy but I don’t have the frame of reference you do. Seems quite a bit more flashy than the Brown Bear/Barnaul I had prior. Back when I got my first case of the stuff, I recall there being a few different Wolf options. By the time I ordered the second 1000 rounds I was happy to be able to buy it.

Anyhow - this is what 2020 vintage looks like just to be sure it’s Tula.

85389

[echo5charlie]

In the past ~15 years of regularly buying misc cases of Tula, Wolf, and Wolf Military Classic as range blasting ammo, it seemed that TCW was only selling it as Tula, and Wolf was usually Ulyanovsk or Vympel made stuff. I can't recall seeing any flavor of Wolf 7.62x39 that was made by TCW any time in the past 6-8 years at least.

I have. Sold a bunch on Gunbroker in the past year and had to picture the case head as people were raging that they "bought Wolf but got Tula". EDIT TO ADD: This was 8M3 with Tulammo headstamps in Wolf packaging.

[GlorifiedMailman]

"Virtually any of the 122-125gr imported steel case ammo with a soft point or hollow point will serve fine in this role. They will expand violently and the jacket usually separates from the core in multiple fragments. Penetration will be substantially less overall than SS109 5.56x45 or virtually all military 5.56 loads for that matter."

This has not been our experience.

I've seen in your previous testing that the old 8m3 seems to be the only steel case import ammo that has any kind of reliably desirable performance. Given the situation described in the OP, what would you recommend, Doctor? Thank you for all that you do.

Also, sorry all for a late reply. Real life got insanely busy.

[GlorifiedMailman]

Really curious as to DocGKR 's input on ammo selection in a situation where a 7.62x39 firearm is the only option for home defense. I understand the easy answer is probably to get an expanding-load 5.56, but just assume that's not an option right now.

[DocGKR]

Well the Hornady 123 gr SST, Winchester 123 gr JSP, and Federal 123 gr Fusion all work well.