2022 Ford Explorer?

[mtnbkr]

As a result of the sudden RMS leak detailed here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51577-ATP-AT-205-additive-for-RMS-leak), SWMBO and I have decided we need a new family vehicle.
Requirements are: Not a car, not a huge truck (aka F150 crew cab, we like them, but it's a tad bigger than we want), must seat a minimum of 5 (6-7 better), just be 4WD or AWD, must have an automatic transmission (tired of driving sticks and still have two manuals in the stable), have decent power (HP itself not important, but it should be capable of 0-60 in less than 8 seconds), and be under 41k new (not looking at used due to the crazy prices at the moment).

We web-shopped at Ford, Toyota, Chevy, Nissan, VW, Mazda, GMC, Hyundai, Kia, and others that I'm probably forgetting, and decided a Ford Explorer fits the bill. We can accept the base model, but prefer the XLT trim. Our current vehicles are older (9yo to 25yo), so virtually everything will feel like a starship compared to our current rides. We'll probably keep this upwards of 15 years. If we get the 0% interest rate currently offered, we'll pay half down and finance the rest for 5 years using Ford's free money.

My most recent experience with Fords has been my 2013 Focus SE hatch (not a bad driver, but has had some reliability issues I haven't seen in other makes with fewer than 100k miles). My buddy has an F150 (his second in a decade). He likes them and I've spent a lot of time riding around in his around town, on the highway, and offroad. It's a nice vehicle and he doesn't seem to have the reliability issues with his F150s I had with the focus (nor should he at nearly twice the price), making me think a more up-market Ford will be better than my econobox.

Weird Question: Do they come with standard cruise control if you don't buy the "Adaptive Intelligent Cruise Control"? I don't need the latter, but I would like plain ol' vanilla cruise control (told you our needs and expectations were low). To get the AICC will cost us another few grand as we'll be forced into the more expensive option package that also includes junk we don't want.

Does anyone here have a 2021 or 2022 model? I think they're virtually the same. Any warts?

Chris

[MVS]

I cant help you but I am interested to hear the answers. I really like my 2017 Ford Explorer Sport but the new ones are a completely different animal being rear wheel drive and a different motor. I will probably upgrade to a new "used" 2022 ST in a couple of years. Depending.

Oh yeah. I really have learned to like the adaptive cruise even though I didn't think I would. I could see why you wouldn't want to spring for a higher package though. The Sport was just below Platinum and I think even way back in 2017 it was around $60,000. I bought it used a couple years ago.

[Lon]

Our 2022 Ford explorer police interceptors Are big pieces of shit. I used to like the explorer but the new ones suck. At least the police version. I don’t know if you could find a Honda pilot in that price range, but I love my pilot. I imagine you’ll get a longer life out of the pilot that you would an explorer.

[camel]

I’m not impressed by car manufacturers at this point.buying a 2022 you should be prepared to trade it in in a few years.

[TGS]

Our 2022 Ford explorer police interceptors Are big pieces of shit. I used to like the explorer but the new ones suck. At least the police version. I don’t know if you could find a Honda pilot in that price range, but I love my pilot. I imagine you’ll get a longer life out of the pilot that you would an explorer.

That's a shame. I loved my 2013 Explorer, put 40,000 miles on it in a year and a half. That thing had incredible handling and ride quality for an SUV that isn't a Porsche. Driving an Impala was downright scary in comparison of how well each machine handled.

[4RNR]

If you want something that lasts 15 years don't buy anything that needs "updates" like your cell phone!!

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Lon]

That's a shame. I loved my 2013 Explorer, put 40,000 miles on it in a year and a half. That thing had incredible handling and ride quality for an SUV that isn't a Porsche. Driving an Impala was downright scary in comparison of how well each machine handled.

It is a shame. I really liked the Explorer. But these new ones are universally hated by all our guys. They’ve done something with the transmission that makes the acceleration all wonky.

God I miss the Crown Vic PI.

[mtnbkr]

Our 2022 Ford explorer police interceptors Are big pieces of shit. I used to like the explorer but the new ones suck. At least the police version. I don’t know if you could find a Honda pilot in that price range, but I love my pilot. I imagine you’ll get a longer life out of the pilot that you would an explorer.

That isn't encouraging. Can you share some details on what's not going well?

As for the Pilot, neither me nor my wife are fans. A friend of ours has one and it just doesn't jive for us. Also, it's the same engine and platform as our van and we've not been impressed with the durability. The RMS leak is the latest issue, but we've had a number of other issues with components that would be common to the Pilot as well, including a transmission replacement at 95k miles (thank God for extended warranties).

Chris

[mtnbkr]

I’m not impressed by car manufacturers at this point.buying a 2022 you should be prepared to trade it in in a few years.

Which is at odds with how I buy cars. I tend to buy them, pay them off early, and keep them for many years after.


If you want something that lasts 15 years don't buy anything that needs "updates" like your cell phone!!

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

No such thing anymore and it's going to get worse. I've been tempted to get a more "primitive" classic SUV and put the funding difference into bringing it up to "new" spec, but if I had time and energy for that, I could do the same with our ailing van. I really just want something I don't have to fiddle with. I already have a "hobby car" in my '97 4Runner.


It is a shame. I really liked the Explorer. But these new ones are universally hated by all our guys. They’ve done something with the transmission that makes the acceleration all wonky.
That sounds like a "feature" of the new 10spd transmission. Apparently it's not "smooth".

Chris

[Lon]

Which is at odds with how I buy cars. I tend to buy them, pay them off early, and keep them for many years after.



No such thing anymore and it's going to get worse. I've been tempted to get a more "primitive" classic SUV and put the funding difference into bringing it up to "new" spec, but if I had time and energy for that, I could do the same with our ailing van. I really just want something I don't have to fiddle with. I already have a "hobby car" in my '97 4Runner.


That sounds like a "feature" of the new 10spd transmission. Apparently it's not "smooth".

Chris

Whoever came up with that transmission should be fired. It’s dangerous when you’re used to something else. The acceleration is awful.

The quality on them overall has been substandard. We’re having to take cars w less than 10k miles in for warranty work on all sorts of things.

[TGS]

Which is at odds with how I buy cars. I tend to buy them, pay them off early, and keep them for many years after.

[snip]

I really just want something I don't have to fiddle with.

Maybe this is a good opportunity to consider leasing a car since you already own multiple other vehicles for long-term. Compared to what your monthly cost will be if purchasing, you'll also be able to buy something nicer...or go the opposite route, and buy the same thing for a lower monthly output, allowing you more money to put into the 97 4Runner.

[4RNR]

Which is at odds with how I buy cars. I tend to buy them, pay them off early, and keep them for many years after.



No such thing anymore and it's going to get worse. I've been tempted to get a more "primitive" classic SUV and put the funding difference into bringing it up to "new" spec, but if I had time and energy for that, I could do the same with our ailing van. I really just want something I don't have to fiddle with. I already have a "hobby car" in my '97 4Runner.


That sounds like a "feature" of the new 10spd transmission. Apparently it's not "smooth".

ChrisNo one says you have to do it. Get what you need and have a good mechanic do it. Still cheaper than a brand new car.

This is where I'm at but I'm the stupid stubborn type. When all else fails I'll invest in daily new footwear before I buy a modern car

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Navin Johnson]

4 runners are small inside

Local popo had numerous problems with EB explorers now they drive hybrids (EB is not a heavy duty cycle motor its for light duty and occasional towing and the local PD beats their tax payer funded hoopties) Newer EB motors SEEM to be better but be very diligent on maintenance. Oil Every 5k no matter what etc.

See how many 15 yo Explorers are in the road with the kind of millage you will drive.

Ford trucks are decently made but the cars not so much......cause CAFE standards and union wages.....you know the rest.

Honda and Toyota are not perfect.....just closer. And re-sale will be much better if you don't drive it into the ground.

[S Jenks]

…are big pieces of shit.

Amen.

We have a few of the new Explorers at work and they’re garbage. It makes me long for an AWD Crown Vic. I’d rather patrol in my frickin’ manual Crosstrek.

The 10-speed automatic leaves you feeling like you’re driving a dump truck. Jerking and slamming and bouncing when you’re going 30 down a side street. The dash and driver interface is insanely confusing. The gas pedal is reversed and wonky. Our fleet guy hates them, constant issues. Everything’s run by computer, from the windows to the wipers. It feels like a disposable car.

But at least I have TWO outside temperature gauges!

I wish suffering and pestilence upon the design team.

[Lon]

I wish suffering and pestilence upon the design team.

Well said!!

[lwt16]

Amen.

We have a few of the new Explorers at work and they’re garbage. It makes me long for an AWD Crown Vic. I’d rather patrol in my frickin’ manual Crosstrek.

The 10-speed automatic leaves you feeling like you’re driving a dump truck. Jerking and slamming and bouncing when you’re going 30 down a side street. The dash and driver interface is insanely confusing. The gas pedal is reversed and wonky. Our fleet guy hates them, constant issues. Everything’s run by computer, from the windows to the wipers. It feels like a disposable car.

But at least I have TWO outside temperature gauges!

I wish suffering and pestilence upon the design team.

Our fleet manager claims that a simple battery replacement requires removal of the windshield wipers.

Transmission issues aplenty and quite a bit slower than my last PD explorer. Trim on the exterior is cheap and just peels off. Mine had a glitch in the crash avoidance. I’d be driving and the display would just alarm for no reason.

No way I’d buy one.

Regards

[Vista461]

Our 2022 Ford explorer police interceptors Are big pieces of shit.

Ive heard that about the hybrids from agencies around me, but not the regular ones. Still glad we went with the F150 for our new squad.

[mtnbkr]

No one says you have to do it. Get what you need and have a good mechanic do it. Still cheaper than a brand new car.

This is where I'm at but I'm the stupid stubborn type. When all else fails I'll invest in daily new footwear before I buy a modern car

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I know. I'm just not interested in a project (or even managing a project) at the moment. And, I've yet to see a resto-mod that was as comfortable, reliable, and hassle-free as it was when factory new. This is going to be SWMBO's DD, I don't want her having to deal with stuff. I needs to work and function as an appliance. Me, on the other hand, I've ended trips with vehicles that worked better than they did at the start, so I'm ok with that on my own terms.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

4 runners are small inside

Local popo had numerous problems with EB explorers now they drive hybrids (EB is not a heavy duty cycle motor its for light duty and occasional towing and the local PD beats their tax payer funded hoopties) Newer EB motors SEEM to be better but be very diligent on maintenance. Oil Every 5k no matter what etc.

See how many 15 yo Explorers are in the road with the kind of millage you will drive.

Ford trucks are decently made but the cars not so much......cause CAFE standards and union wages.....you know the rest.

Honda and Toyota are not perfect.....just closer. And re-sale will be much better if you don't drive it into the ground.

Yeah, I've owned a 4Runner for 20 years. The newer ones are bigger, but not so much that interior space is dramatically improved.

As for 15yo Explorers, my mom's was older than that when she wrecked it, but it was a 2000 model with just under 200k when it was retired. Granted, that's fewer miles than we'd put on it in that timeframe, but not by a huge amount. It's also a much older generation with a very different technical orientation (V8 vs Turbo 4, traditional manual transmission vs 10spd, etc).

As for Honda and Toyota...While my 97 4Runner has been great, I'm concerned newer ones might be lagging. I know my American-made Camry had issues well before we traded it in at 150k miles that I wouldn't expect on a Toyota before 200k. Our Honda Odyssey has also not covered itself in glory. I'm a bit concerned we are seeing the end of Japanese auto quality dominance. And as for trade-in, we keep cars so long, I'm often ready to virtually give them away. :D

Chris

[JCN]

mtnbkr did you look at Subaru?

Ascent starts at $32k and they are exceptional values for all the technology you get.

https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/ascent/index.html

When I was vehicle shopping in the pandemic, I bought a 21 Outback and it’s been a phenomenal car. Same engine and tranny as the Ascent. I’m at 19k miles and it gets great gas mileage and has adaptive cruise and self-steer ability to stay in a lane that works better than my wife’s Tesla.

[mtnbkr]

The 10-speed automatic leaves you feeling like you’re driving a dump truck. Jerking and slamming and bouncing when you’re going 30 down a side street. The dash and driver interface is insanely confusing. The gas pedal is reversed and wonky. Our fleet guy hates them, constant issues. Everything’s run by computer, from the windows to the wipers. It feels like a disposable car.


Makes sense. I can see a multi-geared transmission and smallish engine being a bit of an issue with the truck trying to stay in it's powerband happy place. I need to see what transmission is in my buddy's F150 EB. His feels pretty smooth and solidly constructed, but it is a few years old.

As for everything being computer controlled, I don't see that improving, only getting worse.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Maybe this is a good opportunity to consider leasing a car since you already own multiple other vehicles for long-term. Compared to what your monthly cost will be if purchasing, you'll also be able to buy something nicer...or go the opposite route, and buy the same thing for a lower monthly output, allowing you more money to put into the 97 4Runner.

I've looked at leasing, but the idea of paying for N years and not owning the car at the end doesn't work for me. We haven't had a car payment in roughly 8 years (paid the last one off in under 2 years). I generally only finance them so I don't have to take too big a hit to savings all at once. As for putting more money in the 4Runner, short of an engine swap or retrofitting a Toyota E-locker, there isn't much I want to do aside from regular maintenance.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

mtnbkr did you look at Subaru?

Ascent starts at $32k and they are exceptional values for all the technology you get.

https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/ascent/index.html

When I was vehicle shopping in the pandemic, I bought a 21 Outback and it’s been a phenomenal car. Same engine and tranny as the Ascent. I’m at 19k miles and it gets great gas mileage and has adaptive cruise and self-steer ability to stay in a lane that works better than my wife’s Tesla.

SWMBO does not like Subarus. She can't articulate why exactly, just that she doesn't like them. I'm not a huge fan myself after watching multiple friends and acquaintances have significant issues (multiple with major transmission problems, another had a complete engine failure, several with persistent minor issues, etc). But, I have to admit they check a number of functional and feature requirements. However, without SWMBO onboard, it's a non-starter. This is her vehicle to choose and will be her DD. I play an advisory role, but she has veto power. :)

Chris

[BehindBlueI's]

I've looked at leasing, but the idea of paying for N years and not owning the car at the end doesn't work for me. We haven't had a car payment in roughly 8 years (paid the last one off in under 2 years). I generally only finance them so I don't have to take too big a hit to savings all at once. As for putting more money in the 4Runner, short of an engine swap or retrofitting a Toyota E-locker, there isn't much I want to do aside from regular maintenance.

Chris

I understand the hesitation to lease, but remember you can buy out the lease at any time. We leased my wife's car and then paid it off at the 13 month mark in order to qualify for $1k in incentives that were not available with a cash purchase. It's just financing with some added complications.

I'm strongly considering leasing as an inflation hedge if my wife decides she wants the Gladiator. If prices go back to normal, release the car at the end and buy at the 'new normal'. If inflation continues, buy it out and either keep it or buy it out and sell it. I'm maxing out my ibonds this year (7.19% interest currently) and would rather have that drawing interest then sitting locked up in a car.

[fixer]

Horrible time to be buying a vehicle.

Prices are historically high. Reliability and quality is poorest in a decade or more. Manufacturers are chasing after EV unicorn.

[mtnbkr]

I understand the hesitation to lease, but remember you can buy out the lease at any time. We leased my wife's car and then paid it off at the 13 month mark in order to qualify for $1k in incentives that were not available with a cash purchase. It's just financing with some added complications.

I'm strongly considering leasing as an inflation hedge if my wife decides she wants the Gladiator. If prices go back to normal, release the car at the end and buy at the 'new normal'. If inflation continues, buy it out and either keep it or buy it out and sell it. I'm maxing out my ibonds this year (7.19% interest currently) and would rather have that drawing interest then sitting locked up in a car.

To be honest, with your comments and realization that some of my pre-conceived notions about leasing not necessarily being true anymore, I'm coming around to the idea. I need to discuss it with SWMBO, but it might be a workable solution. In the past, I always rejected it due to having young kids (they ain't young anymore) and our vehicles typically being subjected to high mileage. The latter can still be the case, but I think you can get mileage allowances up to 15k miles, which would cover us. If the numbers work out, it could be acceptable given the current market forces.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Horrible time to be buying a vehicle.

Prices are historically high. Reliability and quality is poorest in a decade or more. Manufacturers are chasing after EV unicorn.

Yeah, not happy about buying right now. I was hoping to put this off another year. I suppose I could, but the van isn't getting any younger or more reliable and we need at least one vehicle that isn't at a double-digit age.

Chris

[Borderland]

Ive heard that about the hybrids from agencies around me, but not the regular ones. Still glad we went with the F150 for our new squad.

My neighbor is a deputy sheriff. He's been bouncing around some with different assignments. He used to be a motor cop, then a small town PC (contracted) and now special ops, whatever that is. He had an explorer (police version) but has a 4 door F-150 now. I thought it was his personal vehicle at first, then saw the 2 small antennas. Damn hard to tell that from your everyday F-150. Unmarked stealth mode.

[JRB]

Yeah, I've owned a 4Runner for 20 years. The newer ones are bigger, but not so much that interior space is dramatically improved.

As for 15yo Explorers, my mom's was older than that when she wrecked it, but it was a 2000 model with just under 200k when it was retired. Granted, that's fewer miles than we'd put on it in that timeframe, but not by a huge amount. It's also a much older generation with a very different technical orientation (V8 vs Turbo 4, traditional manual transmission vs 10spd, etc).

As for Honda and Toyota...While my 97 4Runner has been great, I'm concerned newer ones might be lagging. I know my American-made Camry had issues well before we traded it in at 150k miles that I wouldn't expect on a Toyota before 200k. Our Honda Odyssey has also not covered itself in glory. I'm a bit concerned we are seeing the end of Japanese auto quality dominance. And as for trade-in, we keep cars so long, I'm often ready to virtually give them away. :D

Chris

The Toyota 4Runner is still made exclusively in Japan. The VIN #'s always have a 'J' as the first character, that's the giveaway there.
While the design is ancient by automotive standards, Toyota's figured out the reliability portion on it. So it'll have an old 5 speed auto trans, an equally old 4.0L gas guzzling somewhat underpowered V6, but with oil changes it'll basically go forever without incident.

[Vista461]

My neighbor is a deputy sheriff. He's been bouncing around some with different assignments. He used to be a motor cop, then a small town PC (contracted) and now special ops, whatever that is. He had an explorer (police version) but has a 4 door F-150 now. I thought it was his personal vehicle at first, then saw the 2 small antennas. Damn hard to tell that from your everyday F-150. Unmarked stealth mode.

Ours is fully marked with a light bar, and I have people come flying up from the rear, get to the side of the truck, and slowly drift back. :D

No one expects a crew cab pickup squad 😂

[BehindBlueI's]

Ours is fully marked with a light bar, and I have people come flying up from the rear, get to the side of the truck, and slowly drift back. :D

No one expects a crew cab pickup squad 😂

The only time I've been pulled over in my Camaro was passing a semi-marked truck. No external light bar, though, I'm more observant than that. I thought he was a contractor until I saw the name of the company was "Sheriff" and I didn't bother drifting back. Figured if he wanted me at that point he had me, no need to make him go through the shenanigans of getting behind me.

[joshs]

That sounds like a "feature" of the new 10spd transmission. Apparently it's not "smooth".

I have the 10 speed in my Ranger and it's fine. I only get choppy shifts if its cold, I'm at an only slightly open throttle position, and I don't let the truck warm up that much. It shifts great under power.

[joshs]

another had a complete engine failure

Does this guy ride BMX and shoot? One of my coworkers had an engine failure in his 16 Outback. It would burn a crazy amount of oil. Subaru did eventually replace it though.

We had an 06 Outback, and now have a 19. Both were/are great.

[mtnbkr]

I have the 10 speed in my Ranger and it's fine. I only get choppy shifts if its cold, I'm at an only slightly open throttle position, and I don't let the truck warm up that much. It shifts great under power.

Thanks. My buddy has an F150 with the 10spd and one of the larger EB engines. Aside from needing a recall-oriented update, the transmission has been smooth in my experience (and I've ridden in that truck for virtually every reasonable scenario and temp except towing).

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Does this guy ride BMX and shoot? One of my coworkers had an engine failure in his 16 Outback. It would burn a crazy amount of oil. Subaru did eventually replace it though.

We had an 06 Outback, and now have a 19. Both were/are great.

No, a mountain biker. This would have been the early 20-teens. The other folks I knew that had major problems had older models (they weren't old at the time though). I haven't heard anything recent, but I also don't know many people with the cars these days.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

So SWMBO and I went and fingerbanged a Ford Explorer XLT, Kia Telluride, and Hyundai Palisade. No driving, just crawling around inside to get a feel for the dimensions and comfort.

The Explorer was removed from the list nearly immediately. The seats are terrible (front acceptable, middle barely and just edging toward not, and the third row virtually unusable. I'm still going to test drive it as another data point, but it's not a serious contender at this stage.

The Hyundai barely edged out the Telluride, but we'd be fine with either. We'll have to study what's available on each at the trim level we want. It'll come down to such minutia as well as final price. The Hyundai/Kia warranties are nice as well. My MIL has owned two Hyundais over the last 20 years and both have been reliable autos. SWMBO's boss has owned a couple as well without complaint.

Chris

[MVS]

Does this guy ride BMX and shoot? One of my coworkers had an engine failure in his 16 Outback. It would burn a crazy amount of oil. Subaru did eventually replace it though.

We had an 06 Outback, and now have a 19. Both were/are great.

My youngest sister had the well known Subaru oils burn problem in her car. (Not sure the model) She loves the thing but it took FOREVER for them to make it right.

[MVS]

So SWMBO and I went and fingerbanged a Ford Explorer XLT, Kia Telluride, and Hyundai Palisade. No driving, just crawling around inside to get a feel for the dimensions and comfort.

The Explorer was removed from the list nearly immediately. The seats are terrible (front acceptable, middle barely and just edging toward not, and the third row virtually unusable. I'm still going to test drive it as another data point, but it's not a serious contender at this stage.

The Hyundai barely edged out the Telluride, but we'd be fine with either. We'll have to study what's available on each at the trim level we want. It'll come down to such minutia as well as final price. The Hyundai/Kia warranties are nice as well. My MIL has owned two Hyundais over the last 20 years and both have been reliable autos. SWMBO's boss has owned a couple as well without complaint.

Chris

I can't get over Hyundai's being considered a first rate vehicle. I guess I remember the old days when they were compared to Yugos.

[mtnbkr]

I can't get over Hyundai's being considered a first rate vehicle. I guess I remember the old days when they were compared to Yugos.

I remember when they first arrived, with the big news being a brand new car for less than $5k. I don't recall any comparisons to the Yugo other than price. The main issue with those early ones was the use of Mitsubishi drivetrains. Reliability went up when they started using their own. My wife, then girlfriend, had one of those stripped down early models (AC and radio only options added). It was fine for 5 years or so, then started smoking. I don't recall what eventually caused her to get rid of it though. Her mom bought a 2002 Sonata that she drove for 15 years or so before replacing it with a Santa Fe that she still drives.

I also have some experience with the Yugo. My HS friend was given one by his well-off-but-cheap parents (dad made 200k/year in 1990) because "no new driver needs a nice car". They bought him a brand new Yugo instead! :D Other than the stigma of driving a Yugo, it wasn't a bad car. It was reliable and got him where he needed to go including to/from the college he attended 100 miles away via interstate. I drove it quite a bit myself and found it compared favorably with my '72 VW Beetle in terms of handling, acceleration, and general comfort. After he bought his own car post-college, his dad adopted the Yugo and continued to drive it around town (didn't want to put too many miles on the BMW 7-series!) until he was rear ended. Still, I'd say the early Hyundais were better and more solid than the Yugo.

Chris

[vcdgrips]

FWIW- Consumer Reports list the Kia Telluride as their #1 Mid sized 3 row SUV out of 14. (Kia 97/Toyota Highlander 88/Hyundai Palisades 87/Mazda CX-9 84)

In that space, I would buy the Kia or the Hyundai in a heartbeat. 5 yr/60k bumper to bumper warranty with 10 yr/100 k powertrain warranty to boot.

Here in the KC Metro, availability is spotty and prices for strong buyers ( 750+ credit/10% or more down/etc) tend to be sticker on a special order basis and can be sticker plus for buying something off the lot.

I base the above pricing info on a co worker getting to water's edge on both before pivoting to a Mazda 5 Sport as he decided he did not need the 3 row/size of the Kia/Hyundai.

I concur that this is not a good time to be buying.

I lease as it works for me re cash flow w 2 kids in college and the adage of "buy things that appreciate, rent things that depreciate." You may be in a different boat as you drive your cars a long time.

[BehindBlueI's]

All the car magazines lurve themselves some Kia and Hyundai SUVs. A couple we hang out with on occasion has the Kia whatever. It's nicely appointed. I just can't see myself driving one. I want more motor than they tend to offer and, frankly, my self-image precludes Korean cars.

[mtnbkr]

I lease as it works for me re cash flow w 2 kids in college and the adage of "buy things that appreciate, rent things that depreciate." You may be in a different boat as you drive your cars a long time.

We talked about leasing last night and ran the numbers. It just doesn't make sense for us given how long we keep cars, the miles we put on them, etc. To get the payment down to where we'd want it, we had to pay more on a down payment than we'd want for a lease.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

All the car magazines lurve themselves some Kia and Hyundai SUVs. A couple we hang out with on occasion has the Kia whatever. It's nicely appointed. I just can't see myself driving one. I want more motor than they tend to offer and, frankly, my self-image precludes Korean cars.

Heh. We're coming from a minivan, so this is a step up image-wise. :D
Power-wise, it's going to be our fastest vehicle ever. It's a full second faster 0-60 than the van, which felt fast after our Camry. One day I'll have a "fast" car...maybe...I hope.

Besides, traffic being what it is in this region, we seldom let our cars stretch their legs. AWD and various traction control modes will be handier than more power for sure.

Chris

[Pistol Pete 10]

4 wheel drive Escape............................................ ...

[mtnbkr]

4 wheel drive Escape............................................ ...

Too small and the one I sat in had terrible back seats.

Chris

[4RNR]

AWD Sienna? Even 30 years from now and with space shuttle like miles itll still be worth what you paid for it new! [emoji16]

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Tuefelhunden]

If the OP is still looking at options I'd also consider a Dodge Durango especially the RT package with the hemi. We are on our 3rd and not a problem with any of them. A very versatile vehicle for kids, dogs, groceries, etc. and not too big but big enough. The current iteration has been around for a while with minor tweaks and updates which means the bugs if any have been worked out.

[BehindBlueI's]

We talked about leasing last night and ran the numbers. It just doesn't make sense for us given how long we keep cars, the miles we put on them, etc. To get the payment down to where we'd want it, we had to pay more on a down payment than we'd want for a lease.

Chris


You can always buy out the lease, and you can 'refinance' by taking a loan out and buying it from the lease company to do so. Compare incentives and think about leasing as an alternate form of financing before making any sort of decision. Example: A 2022 Grand Cherokee Limited WK (old body style) is $1760 cheaper to lease than to finance right now in my region due to differences in lease incentives vs purchase incentives. Interest rate is .288% for a 24 month lease. Assuming a 10% down payment, the lease payment is $229 a month cheaper (24 mo lease vs 72 mo finance).

If my intent is to buy out the lease, then mileage limits are irrelevant to me because I'm not going to be turning it back in. There is no reason to buy a higher mileage lease.

I can then pay cash to buy out the lease at the end of the 24 months or any time before. If I don't have the cash available, I can 'refinance' just like I can a loan and buy my lease out by paying the remaining payments (and saving that interest) and the residual value. The only thing you lose is the new car interest rate vs late model used interest rate. That's not going to override the $1760 difference in incentives with today's interest rates. You can also stretch your payments out longer if you need to, pay the lease for 23 months, then get a 60 month loan. At no time will your monthly payment be higher than if you just got a 60 month loan out of the gate.

[mtnbkr]

You can always buy out the lease, and you can 'refinance' by taking a loan out and buying it from the lease company to do so. Compare incentives and think about leasing as an alternate form of financing before making any sort of decision. Example: A 2022 Grand Cherokee Limited WK (old body style) is $1760 cheaper to lease than to finance right now in my region due to differences in lease incentives vs purchase incentives. Interest rate is .288% for a 24 month lease. Assuming a 10% down payment, the lease payment is $229 a month cheaper (24 mo lease vs 72 mo finance).

If my intent is to buy out the lease, then mileage limits are irrelevant to me because I'm not going to be turning it back in. There is no reason to buy a higher mileage lease.

I can then pay cash to buy out the lease at the end of the 24 months or any time before. If I don't have the cash available, I can 'refinance' just like I can a loan and buy my lease out by paying the remaining payments (and saving that interest) and the residual value. The only thing you lose is the new car interest rate vs late model used interest rate. That's not going to override the $1760 difference in incentives with today's interest rates. You can also stretch your payments out longer if you need to, pay the lease for 23 months, then get a 60 month loan. At no time will your monthly payment be higher than if you just got a 60 month loan out of the gate.

I hadn't considered not buying the higher mileage lease if I was planning to buy it out at the end. That changes the equation somewhat. I'm still struggling a bit with the lease vs buy thing as I'm fundamentally a "buy it and own it" person and try to get myself out from under payment plans as quickly as possible. Even when such plans are in my favor financially, they represent, in my head, a risk.

Anyway, food for thought and the number crunching is promising.

Chris

[Borderland]

AWD Sienna? Even 30 years from now and with space shuttle like miles itll still be worth what you paid for it new! [emoji16]

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With inflation and production numbers being what they are that may be the case. In a little over two years the price of a new 4Runner has increased 10K. I just saw one advertised at the same dealer where I purchased mine for 47K. I paid 37K for mine. Same trim package. They only had one for sale so I know there won't be any negotiation on the price.

[mmc45414]

I know this is way out there, and your wife might veto quickly, but (if you do not need the third row seats) after having a ton of SUVs I sure am happy to have a pickup truck. And I think the Ranger is a better foundation than any of the unibody SUVs. The 2.3 is looking like it is solid and a buttload of power in that truck, I drove one ( bruceride ) for three days and liked it a great deal. I just bought a boat that is too big for one or I would be tempted to consolidate my car and F-150.

Those stubby little beds are silly from a pickup truck perspective but have a buttload of room from an SUV perspective. Some of the snazzy caps make them appear the same as an SUV while segregating cargo that might be smelly or dirty. Sand from the beach doesn't get in the carpet and if a gas can for the mower ever tips over it doesn't ruin the vehicle. Might be able to get bicycles inside instead of on a rack. And if you ever need to haul something tall you have the option of lifting the cap off.

And I think they are a better value, typically a bit cheaper than a comparable SUV. And if you try the lease/buy idea they probably have a stronger residual. And if you change your mind in a couple of years you would probably be in better shape than with a used SUV.

Might be at least worth sitting in and looking at, after living with a van maybe your wife might consider it the anti-van. :cool:

[mtnbkr]

I know this is way out there, and your wife might veto quickly, but (if you do not need the third row seats) after having a ton of SUVs I sure am happy to have a pickup truck. And I think the Ranger is a better foundation than any of the unibody SUVs. The 2.3 is looking like it is solid and a buttload of power in that truck, I drove one ( bruceride ) for three days and liked it a great deal. I just bought a boat that is too big for one or I would be tempted to consolidate my car and F-150.

Those stubby little beds are silly from a pickup truck perspective but have a buttload of room from an SUV perspective. Some of the snazzy caps make them appear the same as an SUV while segregating cargo that might be smelly or dirty. Sand from the beach doesn't get in the carpet and if a gas can for the mower ever tips over it doesn't ruin the vehicle. Might be able to get bicycles inside instead of on a rack. And if you ever need to haul something tall you have the option of lifting the cap off.

And I think they are a better value, typically a bit cheaper than a comparable SUV. And if you try the lease/buy idea they probably have a stronger residual. And if you change your mind in a couple of years you would probably be in better shape than with a used SUV.

Might be at least worth sitting in and looking at, after living with a van maybe your wife might consider it the anti-van. :cool:

It's not a bad suggestion, but one we've already considered. We want the 3rd row. We don't use it often, but when we do, we need it. Also, we want the vehicle to fit in the garage, which the Ranger will not (our max length is 202", the Ranger is 210).

If we remove the garage from consideration, we've also talked about the F-150 (seats 6, close enough to the capacity of a 3-row SUV), but my wife is concerned about her knees and ability to get into it over the life of the vehicle.

She likes trucks, but feels the 3-row SUV will be more useful for our needs. I'm incline to agree even though I'd like a truck as well. :D

Chris

[BehindBlueI's]

It's not a bad suggestion, but one we've already considered. We want the 3rd row. We don't use it often, but when we do, we need it. Also, we want the vehicle to fit in the garage, which the Ranger will not (our max length is 202", the Ranger is 210).

If we remove the garage from consideration, we've also talked about the F-150 (seats 6, close enough to the capacity of a 3-row SUV), but my wife is concerned about her knees and ability to get into it over the life of the vehicle.

She likes trucks, but feels the 3-row SUV will be more useful for our needs. I'm incline to agree even though I'd like a truck as well. :D

Chris

FWIW, 6 people was pretty comfortable in my double bench seat Ram 1500, as long as one of them is a child. What I don't like is the front row center passenger does not have an airbag and is closest to the dash. I'll get the center console option next go-round because I no longer need more than 5 seats ever.

[TGS]

It's not a bad suggestion, but one we've already considered.

Not to beat this horse that I already annoyed BBI's with in another thread, but it legitimately sounds like your best choice in this case is another minivan. There's a few things I'm picking up on here, hear me out:

1) 3-row SUVs that will fit in your garage limitations are typically pretty cramped for everyone not in the front seats. The third row of seats in my Ford Explorer were "emergency" use 3rd row seats, as an example (and in my opinion, YMMV), and even the 2nd row were doable but pretty cramped. A minivan will still be plenty spacious for all passengers within those size limitations. I'm not sure what exactly your needs are when you say, "we don't need it often, but when we need it, we really need it". The requisite space and utility of that seating is going to depend on your use case; obviously there's a big difference between road trips with a family vs simply having to pick up family twice a year from IAD or DCA for a half hour ride back to your home.

2) Your stated budget will accommodate a smaller/mid-size SUV, but minivans will be even more affordable...and it sounds like even though you're financially solid to make this purchase, thrifty spending/smart finances is still something that gives you comfort, security, and enjoyment in life.

3) If mobility is a concern to your better half, the minivan is going to be a huge advantage over an SUV such as a Durango, 4Runner, Explorer or Acadia. At my job we purposely keep minivans on hand for protectees with mobility concerns that have trouble with our cars and Suburbans, for what it's worth. I would think that if someone is going to have trouble getting in and out of a pickup, then they're still going to have trouble getting in and out of a mid-size SUV even if not as bad. A minivan? Way better, particular if you're projecting the issue to worsen.

[mmc45414]

Also, we want the vehicle to fit in the garage, which the Ranger will not (our max length is 202", the Ranger is 210).
Yeah, bummer. in 2014 we went from a Suburban to the longest F-150 they make, the extended cab with an eight foot bed. At the time I was working with my wife at her large format print shop and it was perfect with room for the dog or occasional passenger and room for a 4x8 in the bed without farting around folding the seats up and down. Specs say it is 250.4", and it is, no shit, about two inches too long to fit in the garage, so the most valuable vehicle we own sits out in the rain and the snow. Fast forward a couple years and I was no longer working with my wife and really didn't need the truck, but it was almost new and didn't want to trade it, just to get something that would fit in the garage.

The good news is, that extra spot in the garage is pretty much how I ended up with my fun car (Focus ST). :cool:

[vcdgrips]

The best, most versatile vehicle I have ever owed to date was an 05 FWD Honda Minivan with Michelins on it. At the time, and this may have changed, all safety features (multiple air bags, traction control, anti lock brakes, crush zone magic etc. was standard on all trim lines.

0-60 sub 8

20 + MPG on highway with the cruze set at 5-8 over.

Seating for 7/8.

Easy peasy to get in/out of. Lots of room/cup holders, cubbies, roof rack, storage etc.

Handled like a sedan v. an SUV.

I would look hard at the Sienna as well given the AWD option.

Pricing here is also sticker on a special order. 4 month wait on the Sienna as per my co-worker who just got his and loves it.

Edited to add-Kia Carnival-8 passenger mini van that looks very SUV like. No AWD though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/carnival

[BehindBlueI's]

If you decide to go with Ford or Dodge/Jeep/Ram, there are some dealers that wouldn't be too far for you who are offering 4-6% off invoice pricing if you'll order one vs take one off the lot. Especially if you aren't going to trade something in, that's another way to save some bucks.

[TGS]

Edited to add-Kia Carnival-8 passenger mini van that looks very SUV like. No AWD though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/carnival

At 203" it's likely too big for his garage, but interesting nonetheless! Looks like a lowered SUV, almost....probably due to the longer length.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn_htHFC4cw

[mtnbkr]

Not to beat this horse that I already annoyed BBI's with in another thread, but it legitimately sounds like your best choice in this case is another minivan. There's a few things I'm picking up on here, hear me out:

1) 3-row SUVs that will fit in your garage limitations are typically pretty cramped for everyone not in the front seats. The third row of seats in my Ford Explorer were "emergency" use 3rd row seats, as an example (and in my opinion, YMMV), and even the 2nd row were doable but pretty cramped. A minivan will still be plenty spacious for all passengers within those size limitations. I'm not sure what exactly your needs are when you say, "we don't need it often, but when we need it, we really need it". The requisite space and utility of that seating is going to depend on your use case; obviously there's a big difference between road trips with a family vs simply having to pick up family twice a year from IAD or DCA for a half hour ride back to your home.
We use the 3rd row of our van 4-5x per year (and some of those are over multiple days). But, the bigger reason is that most of the 2-row SUV/Crossovers we've looked at had very little cargo space with the back seat in place. The 3-row SUVs give us about the same cargo space, but then we can lower the rear seats and get a lot more. We found the 3rd row seats on the Hyundai Palisade (and Kia version) usable with the front and middle seats arranged to fit me. But, not so on the Explorer. As I told my wife, the 3rd row there felt more like a "seat in name only" like the rear seats in a 911.


2) Your stated budget will accommodate a smaller/mid-size SUV, but minivans will be even more affordable...and it sounds like even though you're financially solid to make this purchase, thrifty spending/smart finances is still something that gives you comfort, security, and enjoyment in life.
You calling me cheap? :D

But yeah, even where I can afford to do so, I prefer to minimize the expenditure. But, as I told my wife (we're both similarly "frugal"), what will we regret more after this is fully paid off and behind us, the money we spent or the features/capabilities we didn't buy because we cheaped out (to which she agreed...lucked out here, we're almost always on the same money page). Of course, that has its limits... :)


3) If mobility is a concern to your better half, the minivan is going to be a huge advantage over an SUV such as a Durango, 4Runner, Explorer or Acadia. At my job we purposely keep minivans on hand for protectees with mobility concerns that have trouble with our cars and Suburbans, for what it's worth. I would think that if someone is going to have trouble getting in and out of a pickup, then they're still going to have trouble getting in and out of a mid-size SUV even if not as bad. A minivan? Way better, particular if you're projecting the issue to worsen.
Fair call. I'd be concerned about the ones you name but she found the Palisade and Telluride easy to get in/out of. She felt like the Explorer could become troublesome, but I think it was the other issues that killed that one.

Regarding minivans in general, while we're not dead set against one, after driving one for 12 years, we're ready for a change. :)

Chris

[mtnbkr]

The best, most versatile vehicle I have ever owed to date was an 05 FWD Honda Minivan with Michelins on it. At the time, and this may have changed, all safety features (multiple air bags, traction control, anti lock brakes, crush zone magic etc. was standard on all trim lines.

0-60 sub 8

20 + MPG on highway with the cruze set at 5-8 over.

Seating for 7/8.

Easy peasy to get in/out of. Lots of room/cup holders, cubbies, roof rack, storage etc.

Handled like a sedan v. an SUV.

I would look hard at the Sienna as well given the AWD option.

Pricing here is also sticker on a special order. 4 month wait on the Sienna as per my co-worker who just got his and loves it.

Edited to add-Kia Carnival-8 passenger mini van that looks very SUV like. No AWD though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/carnival


At 203" it's likely too big for his garage, but interesting nonetheless! Looks like a lowered SUV, almost....probably due to the longer length.

Our current family truckster is an '07 Odyssey. I have to admit it's very non-van-like driving-wise, but we're minvan'd out. We're ready for something different. We did look at the Carnival, but it's too big for our garage by a hair.

Chris

[BN]

I would look hard at the Sienna as well given the AWD option.



We have a 2014 AWD Sienna we bought new. It easily carries 7 adult sized people. The third row is a little tight for larger adults. The sliding doors on both sides are a giant plus for ease of entry and exit. Our grand daughter with twins drives it mostly, but if we need to haul a lot of people we use the Sienna. It drives and handles very well. I think you can get 8 passenger AWD Siennas now.

[4RNR]

With inflation and production numbers being what they are that may be the case. In a little over two years the price of a new 4Runner has increased 10K. I just saw one advertised at the same dealer where I purchased mine for 47K. I paid 37K for mine. Same trim package. They only had one for sale so I know there won't be any negotiation on the price.Even prior to 2019. Some Toyotas historically hold their value. Usually Trucks and minivans.

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[0ddl0t]

What do you think of the Highlander?

[Borderland]

What do you think of the Highlander?

My wife had one , 2007 I think. That was a great vehicle. 170K when she sold it. Not sure what the new ones are like but I know they're in great demand.

[Darth_Uno]

4 runners are small inside




Yeah, I've owned a 4Runner for 20 years. The newer ones are bigger, but not so much that interior space is dramatically improved.


I'm sure it's subjective, but I'm 6'1 and never thought they were small.


What do you think of the Highlander?

We rented one for a bit after my first 4runner was totalled. It was...fine. Rather liked it actually. Size-wise basically a 4runner with a much smoother ride, with (if you care) the tradeoff of off-road performance upgrades and aggressive looks. Not too many lifted Highlanders on Instagram, just sayin'. But I'm sure the AWD is more than capable of handling Midwest snow.

[BN]

What do you think of the Highlander?

My wife bought a 2002 Highlander new. Drove it 250,000 miles and traded it in on a Subaru Legacy in 2016. She drove the Legacy until 2019 and bought another Highlander. She passed the Legacy on to a grand daughter who just got her license. She loves her Highlanders. :)

[4RNR]

I'm sure it's subjective, but I'm 6'1 and never thought they were small.



We rented one for a bit after my first 4runner was totalled. It was...fine. Rather liked it actually. Size-wise basically a 4runner with a much smoother ride, with (if you care) the tradeoff of off-road performance upgrades and aggressive looks. Not too many lifted Highlanders on Instagram, just sayin'. But I'm sure the AWD is more than capable of handling Midwest snow.I think he means room for stuff not leg room

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[mtnbkr]

I'm sure it's subjective, but I'm 6'1 and never thought they were small.


I think he means room for stuff not leg room

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
This.

I'm 5'10" and have no problems even in the back seat, but cargo space isn't the greatest. It's good enough for what I do with it these days, but when it was our DD and we had two kids in car seats and the stuff associated with kids of that age, it was tight.

It does feel narrow when you have to adult males sitting up front though, as if you're nearly shoulder to shoulder.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

When we first started looking at the Explorer, there were numerous comparisons on review sites comparing it to the Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride, with those two virtually always coming out ahead on multiple metrics. We decided to give those two a look. We liked what we read spec-wise and found them far more comfortable checking them out in dealer lots. The Palisade barely edged out the Telluride, so we decided to focus on the Hyundai. This weekend, we got around to test driving it. We drove a 2021 Palidade SE (all that was on the lot and with a bare-bones spec) and a 2022 Palisade SES with Convenience and Premier Packages (what we'd end up buying).

Yeah, we're getting a Palisade. It drives great, but like a smaller vehicle and with a lot of "luxury". It just feels good. Visibility and situational awareness is great, it is quiet inside even at highway speeds. In "Comfort" mode it was sedate and easy to drive, but in "Sport" mode it became responsive and nimble, feeling more car-like than SUV or Van. We all took turns riding in the different seating positions and nobody felt cramped or uncomfortable. It feels like much more vehicle than you'd expect out of Hyundai. Even the kids liked it.

We can do a factory order for exactly what we want and there is no dealer mark-up (no discounts either). We'll have to wait 90 days, but we're not in dire straits, so no problem there.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Ixnay on the Palisade. A couple months ago we tried to order one and found out that they are no longer taking orders on the 2022s. Not only that, while you can order a 2023, nobody can tell you the exact features/options available at different trim levels, what the price will be, or even when it will arrive (est 8-12 months as of a week ago). That, combined with the rapidly increasing gas prices, rising interest rates, and general inflation, caused us to reevaluate our plans.

We decided the Santa Fe would have all the space we need. We wouldn't be able to schlep friends and family around, but that only comes up 2-3x a year and isn't enough to really factor into the purchase decision given the other issues mentioned. We'll just have to take two cars in those scenarios. We briefly considered the Hybrid version, but the price differential would eat into the fuel cost savings and I wasn't sure what it would be like on the far end of the ownership curve (though with Hyundai's 10yr/100k warranty covering the battery, the risk was minimized). We ultimately ended up with the Santa Fe Limited (2.5L turbo engine yo!). Not only was it better equipped than the Palisade we were going to buy, it was nearly 2 grand cheaper, gets better mileage, and is faster (0-60 in low 6s vs low 7s for the Palisade).

We've put just under 150 miles on the vehicle since buying it Sunday. When we bought it, there was a mere 25 miles on the odometer and we put 10-12 on it during the test drive. So far we love it. It has tons of passenger space, a huge trunk area, virtually every feature and perk you could ask for, and is just plain fun to drive. Sad to say, but this is the fastest vehicle I've ever owned.

Pluses:
Fast
Good fuel economy for the size and performance.
Comfortable in all seating positions.
Lots of space for passengers and gear.
"Sport" mode actually works and makes the SUV more responsive (compared to the same mode in my buddy's F150 Ecoboost).
Great technology package (cameras, sensors, entertainment, and such) that we'll use.
Panoramic sunroof (doesn't sound impressive until you're under it).
Great warranty package that includes maintenance and roadside assistance.

Negatives:
USB ports could be thought out better (only one data port, but you could have music on a flash drive AND content on your phone...choose one).
No spare tire, comes with a pump and a bottle of sealant (the bottle attaches to the pump). Not that different than "fix-a-flat" and I've only used a spare tire once in 20 years, but it does take some getting used to.
Passenger-accessible storage is a bit light compared to our minivan (well duh, but we still have to get used to that).

We're happy with it. The plan is to keep this for 10-15 years. Family members who have owned Hyundais have experienced good reliability and service, so we don't expect any problems.


Chris