Does the Increased Size of Closed Emitter Red Dot's Lessen a Pistol's Reliability?

[Rack]

I'm wondering if the increased weight of a closed emitter will lessen the window of reliability on a pistol? Is there any data or observations on this?

Thanks.

[TCinVA]

I've not seen an enclosed emitter optic cause a stoppage or malfunction on a pistol yet. I've been carrying and using an Acro mounted to a Gen5 17 for a couple of years now and I've been around a boatload of Holosun enclosed emitter optics. In teaching and attending dozens of classes with thousands of rounds fired I've not seen any delta in the function of guns equipped with closed emitter and open emitter optics.

[joshs]

I've not seen an enclosed emitter optic cause a stoppage or malfunction on a pistol yet. I've been carrying and using an Acro mounted to a Gen5 17 for a couple of years now and I've been around a boatload of Holosun enclosed emitter optics. In teaching and attending dozens of classes with thousands of rounds fired I've not seen any delta in the function of guns equipped with closed emitter and open emitter optics.

Same here. No difference in my experience. If you are trying to get a slide-ride .22 to run, I can the small difference in optic weight mattering. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to matter.

[1Rangemaster]

I’ve seen thousands of rounds through my own G19 and other GLOCKs w/Aimpoint ACRO P-1s, several thousand with a couple of Holosun 509Ts, and a few hundred with a Steiner MPS-one sample; no stoppages/malfs.
US Federal LE have tested ACROs, and it’s my understanding they “passed”.
Not an issue, it seems…

[GJM]

I had a perfectly reliable iron sight Gen 4 17, that I had the Unity system installed. Subsequently it had reliability problems with an Aimpoint micro, but not with an RMR.

I have not observed issues with the Acro or 509T.

Based on this, I would say that weight might matter depending upon how much weight and how vigorously the base pistol ejects/extracts. The new Frank Proctor MOS plate is heavier by design, and it will be interesting to see if that impacts reliability.

[Clusterfrack]

Sample size of one: my P-07/509t2 has no problems. It ejects brass in the same neat pile as without the optic. Slide cycle time does not seem different either.

[JCN]

I'm wondering if the increased weight of a closed emitter will lessen the window of reliability on a pistol? Is there any data or observations on this?

Thanks.

Will lessen the window but for most gun and ammo combos the margin is wide enough it won’t matter.

Sometimes a lighter recoil spring (or hotter ammo) can shift the window to give back margin.

As GJM said it’s more the weight than the size.

[KevH]

I'm wondering if the increased weight of a closed emitter will lessen the window of reliability on a pistol? Is there any data or observations on this?

Thanks.

No

[KevH]

No

I should probably explain. Let's use a Glock MOS as an example.

The filler plate that comes on a Glock MOS slide weighs right about 1.46 oz.

The Aimpoint Acro P-2 weighs 2.1 oz.

The Trijicon RMR weighs 1.2 oz

The Trijicon SRO weighs 1.6 oz

The Leupold DPP weighs 1.9 oz

The Holosun 507c weighs 1.5 oz

So a closed emitter like the Acro weighs marginally more than most of them and nearly the same as say the DPP.

The Acro itself is not any bigger in footprint than most of the sights I just listed. It's actually smaller in size on the gun than a DPP.

I think my wife put it best, "So it is basically like comparing a pickup truck with a camper shell to one without." Her words, not mine. I can't come up with a better description.

What you get for that extra 0.3 or 0.4 oz and bigger side profile is a much clearer lens with nearly bombproof reliability under nearly all conditions and a battery is readily available anywhere that an idiot can change and that lasts for years.

But hey, maybe it doesn't look as sexy on the 'gram as a RMR or Holosun. :cool:

[GJM]

I should probably explain. Let's use a Glock MOS as an example.

The filler plate that comes on a Glock MOS slide weighs right about 1.46 oz.

The Aimpoint Acro P-2 weighs 2.1 oz.

The Trijicon RMR weighs 1.2 oz

The Trijicon SRO weighs 1.6 oz

The Leupold DPP weighs 1.9 oz

The Holosun 507c weighs 1.5 oz

So a closed emitter like the Acro weighs marginally more than most of them and nearly the same as say the DPP.

The Acro itself is not any bigger in footprint than most of the sights I just listed. It's actually smaller in size on the gun than a DPP.

I think my wife put it best, "So it is basically like comparing a pickup truck with a camper shell to one without." Her words, not mine. I can't come up with a better description.

What you get for that extra 0.3 or 0.4 oz and bigger side profile is a much clearer lens with nearly bombproof reliability under nearly all conditions and a battery is readily available anywhere that an idiot can change and that lasts for years.

But hey, maybe it doesn't look as sexy on the 'gram as a RMR or Holosun. :cool:

Do your calculations include the weight of an adapter plate, which in the case of a steel plate could be approaching the weight of the removed filler plate?

[KevH]

Do your calculations include the weight of an adapter plate, which in the case of a steel plate could be approaching the weight of the removed filler plate?

Not in this particular instance because with the MOS they all require a plate.

The point is the weight difference between open and closed emitter is negligible.

[Erick Gelhaus]

A lot of experience with an Acro on a M&P 2.0, no reliability issues;
Some experience with a T1 on a Unity G17 slide, no reliability issues (but the Unity G19 slide & a couple of different optics has never worked with a comped bbl).

[GJM]

I was told by someone that knows, that Mr Glock was very focused on slide mass (weight and distribution of weight) when the 17 was originally developed, and had multiple prototypes of varying mass. It makes sense that the closer the weight and distribution of weight is to the original slide dimension is giving you the best chance at reliability. Conversely, the more you vary, the more you are a test pilot as to reliability.

[Clusterfrack]

Glock 19 slide (no optic): 361g
CZ P-07 slide (no optic): 337g
CZ P-07 slide w/509t2 direct mount: 384g (47g heavier)

Here's a discussion of slide weight and weight distribution, and how that affects sight tracking:
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/183028-real-testing-and-feedback-on-slide-lightening/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220211/cafaace5234617880f27bd173f53195f.jpg

[GJM]

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/slide-not-always-cycling-100-after-adding-acro-to-a-p30l.544937/

[Rack]

Thanks for all the feedback. Still trying to decide.

Thanks.