How to Carry CZ SP-01: Condition 1 or 2?

[Gray Ghost]

I recently acquired a NIB CZ SP-01. I have never been much on DA/SA. I own a few for training purposes but I have mostly carried Glocks and H&K LEM pistols. My CZ has the safety as opposed to the decocker. For those who carry these, how do you carry it? Cocked and locked or hammer down for a DA first shot? Why?

Thanks.

[Elwin]

Since it doesn’t have a decocker, your only option for DA/SA is to lower the hammer by pulling the trigger and easing the hammer down. This is an objectively terrible idea for administrative handling and simply impossible to do on the fly (as you would use a proper TDA pistol, hitting the decocker every single time you come off target).

So you have a recklessly dangerous administrative step, and then while you’re using the gun in a defensive context you’re running around with a cocked and unlocked pistol until the shooting stops. Even then, now you want to holster your gun, and you have to do that dangerous administrative task with an adrenaline dump and however many distractions working against you. No thanks.

Carry it SAO or look for a decocker or Omega version if you really like the gun.

[Trigger]

Or. Carry it hammer down on the half-cock notch. If you shoot and re-holster, put it on safe.

[krav51]

Or. Carry it hammer down on the half-cock notch. If you shoot and re-holster, put it on safe.

good luck performing a technique that you only use " if you shoot" under that kind of adrenaline dump.

[Bucky]

I have considered a traditional CZ (traditional in no decocker) Compact for some time. My thought would be carry with the hammer down, on half cock as recommended by the manufacturer I believe, due to lack of a firing pin safety. This can be done safely (more safe than all the way forward as mandated by certain competition rules) with a non adrenaline pump, pointed in a safe direction. If there was any altercation and you needed to safe the gun, by all means use the safety.

Since I began using my Shadow 2 in three gun, this is pretty similar to my technique, hammer down on the load and make ready, thumb safety for safe-ing or grounding the pistol. Since I was previously using an STI, the ladder step hasn’t changed.

Admittedly, this would require more practice / training, adding yet another step in what some consider a “complex” system. Probably why I’ve only pondered it, and not acted on it.

[Oldherkpilot]

good luck performing a technique that you only use " if you shoot" under that kind of adrenaline dump.

Your point is very valid. The other issue is training with the pistol. If you want to do 50 reps of draw to first shot, you must manually lower the hammer for each rep to get the DA trigger. Cocked and locked is an option if you can reach the safety. I have decockers on all my CZs for that reason. That SP 01 is a beautiful pistol, but the SP01 Tactical might serve your carry needs better. Whatever you decide, train deliberately.

[revchuck38]

When I carried a CZ-75B, I treated it as an SAO gun with a DA first shot. Off target, on safe. On the range by myself, I would carefully decock it. I took a couple of classes with it and ran it cocked and locked for the most part. I switched to the PX4 specifically so I didn't have to mess with lowering the hammer. I'm thinking about having one of my -75Bs converted to SAO to try it out.

I recommend carrying your SP01 as an SAO gun.

[Bucky]

Your point is very valid. The other issue is training with the pistol. If you want to do 50 reps of draw to first shot, you must manually lower the hammer for each rep to get the DA trigger.

Welcome to trying with a Shadow 2 for USPSA production or Carry Optics. ;) :)

[claymore504]

I have gone the DA/SA route for all of my CZ handguns, except for my Shadow 2 SAO and 75B Omega (non-convertable). I would just go with SAO if I was making the SP-01 my primary handgun. However, I use a CZ P09 in the DA/SA mode.

[Navin Johnson]

Can somebody splain the difference between a cocked SP-01 and a fully tensioned SFA pistol like a P320 when holstering?

[AirbusPilot]

[QUOTE=Elwin;1316294]Since it doesn’t have a decocker, your only option for DA/SA is to lower the hammer by pulling the trigger and easing the hammer down. This is an objectively terrible idea for administrative handling and simply impossible to do on the fly (as you would use a proper TDA pistol, hitting the decocker every single time you come off target).

So you have a recklessly dangerous administrative step, and then while you’re using the gun in a defensive context you’re running around with a cocked and unlocked pistol until the shooting stops. Even then, now you want to holster your gun, and you have to do that dangerous administrative task with an adrenaline dump and however many distractions working against you. No thanks.

Carry it SAO or look for a decocker or Omega version if you really like

Just needs to be operated like any 1911/2011 , cocked and locked. I have a P07 Omega trigger and by choice I carry it cocked and locked, I hate the difference in 1st and thereafter trigger pull of the DA/SA. It has been done with the 1911 for over 100 years.... "recklessly dangerous administrative step" is completely inaccurate

[revchuck38]

Can somebody splain the difference between a cocked SP-01 and a fully tensioned SFA pistol like a P320 when holstering?

You've got an engaged thumb safety and a hammer on which to rest your thumb to ensure it doesn't move.

[beenalongtime]

The SP01 tactical is the decocker version. It is on my keep my eyes out for, list. When I was thinking new, I found a BD model, with less then 50 rounds through it for $400, which fulfilled that want for now.
I've heard you can get better triggers with the safety versions, I had a chance to buy a black and blue model, but choose the LTT Elite instead, in large part due to decocker option with nice trigger.

[Navin Johnson]

You've got an engaged thumb safety and a hammer on which to rest your thumb to ensure it doesn't move.

I was in reference to the administrative handling of a cocked pistol with a hammer versus a fully tension striker fire pistol that have about the same trigger weight break.

Everybody gets so concerned if a pistol has been decocked but there's no way to decock a p320 when holstering.

And there was discussion in the thread concerning having to manually lower the hammer to half cock if one did not want to use the safety and I simply ask why do that it's no different than carrying a VP9?

[Elwin]

Just needs to be operated like any 1911/2011 , cocked and locked. I have a P07 Omega trigger and by choice I carry it cocked and locked, I hate the difference in 1st and thereafter trigger pull of the DA/SA. It has been done with the 1911 for over 100 years.... "recklessly dangerous administrative step" is completely inaccurate

To be clear, the "recklessly dangerous administrative step" I'm referring to is leaving the safety off, trapping the hammer with a thumb or fingers, pulling the trigger, and easing the hammer down, all with a live round in the chamber, so that the first shot is DA - all because you want to run a gun DA/SA but don't have a decocker on it. I'm currently carrying a 1911 and carry it most days my clothing doesn't dictate choosing something smaller, so I have absolutely no problem with carrying cocked and locked.

As mentioned by others, the decocker-less DA/SA operation may be OK for USPSA (still gives me the willies), but I'm pretty confident drawing a hard line when it comes to doing it at home before holstering up and leaving the house. There is no "safe direction" in your house that is safe enough for that procedure.

The above point about training is also a good one. When every rep should be started with the hammer down, that's a lot of trying to lower the hammer without slipping and letting the gun fire.

[revchuck38]

I was in reference to the administrative handling of a cocked pistol with a hammer versus a fully tension striker fire pistol that have about the same trigger weight break.

Everybody gets so concerned if a pistol has been decocked but there's no way to decock a p320 when holstering.

And there was discussion in the thread concerning having to manually lower the hammer to half cock if one did not want to use the safety and I simply ask why do that it's no different than carrying a VP9?

Okay, I misunderstood you. FWIW, you can get a 320 with a thumb safety. I've got three M&P 1.0s - a 40 and two 45s. The 40 doesn't have a thumb safety and is my dedicated nightstand gun for that reason. The 45s have thumb safeties and do get carried.

[Ichiban]

I have gone the DA/SA route for all of my CZ handguns, except for my Shadow 2 SAO and 75B Omega (non-convertable). I would just go with SAO if I was making the SP-01 my primary handgun. However, I use a CZ P09 in the DA/SA mode.

Can you expound on the 75B Omega non-convertible thing? I thought that was one of the big selling features for the Omega line was that it could be converted from a decocker to safety only.

[Bucky]

Can somebody splain the difference between a cocked SP-01 and a fully tensioned SFA pistol like a P320 when holstering?

I so wanted to go there in my post.

In all seriousness, what is the difference? At this point, I think the hot ticket is a Beretta 92 with a D slide. Much easier to maintain, no safety, just carry it cocked. Same trigger length of pull and weight of many P320s. ;) ;)

[Navin Johnson]

I so wanted to go there in my post.

In all seriousness, what is the difference? At this point, I think the hot ticket is a Beretta 92 with a D slide. Much easier to maintain, no safety, just carry it cocked. Same trigger length of pull and weight of many P320s. ;) ;)


Obviously the difference is a cocked hammer gun has a disabled firing pin safety or drop safety.

But then again we've heard reports of some striker guns having that same feature........

[claymore504]

Can you expound on the 75B Omega non-convertible thing? I thought that was one of the big selling features for the Omega line was that it could be converted from a decocker to safety only.

The 75B Omega version I have was an early model that just offered the Omega trigger as a more simple trigger system. It was discontinued for the Omega canvertable system.




https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-b-%cf%89-omega/


https://i.imgur.com/bE60EKc.jpg?2

[Clusterfrack]

As mentioned by others, the decocker-less DA/SA operation may be OK for USPSA (still gives me the willies), but I'm pretty confident drawing a hard line when it comes to doing it at home before holstering up and leaving the house. There is no "safe direction" in your house that is safe enough for that procedure.

The above point about training is also a good one. When every rep should be started with the hammer down, that's a lot of trying to lower the hammer without slipping and letting the gun fire.

While I'm not recommending it to anyone, it is possible to safely decock a safety-only CZ.
1. Point gun in a safe direction
2. Block hammer with index finger
3. Press trigger; hammer will pinch finger
4. Release trigger; firing pin block is now activated
5. Lower hammer by slowly removing finger; hammer will stop on half-cock notch

[Trigger]

While I'm not recommending it to anyone, it is possible to safely decock a safety-only CZ.
1. Point gun in a safe direction
2. Block hammer with index finger
3. Press trigger; hammer will pinch finger
4. Release trigger; firing pin block is now activated
5. Lower hammer by slowly removing finger; hammer will stop on half-cock notch

Yep. 100% agree. There are ways to safely decock a P-01/07/09 without a decocker lever. And if it really bothers you, install the decocker lever and drive on.

[Elwin]

While I'm not recommending it to anyone, it is possible to safely decock a safety-only CZ.
1. Point gun in a safe direction
2. Block hammer with index finger
3. Press trigger; hammer will pinch finger
4. Release trigger; firing pin block is now activated
5. Lower hammer by slowly removing finger; hammer will stop on half-cock notch

I agree, and since I've used some strong language here I should probably clarify.

If you do it right, that process absolutely works. And while I'm not a fan, I get that it's fine to do it on a range when the gun is pointed at a backstop that's specifically intended to absorb bullets. I just think there's a difference between that and doing it in a home or elsewhere where you have "safe" directions to point in as a layer of safety in the event of an ND, but any ND in any direction is to one degree or another "not safe," a very bad thing, and likely to be a day, week, month, year, or life-altering event depending on the results.

Other people will do what they do. I just think that an administrative action that involves pulling the trigger of a live weapon is something that, if done at all, should only be done where a discharge is a 100% acceptable result.

[Ichiban]

The 75B Omega version I have was an early model that just offered the Omega trigger as a more simple trigger system. It was discontinued for the Omega canvertable system.


I was unaware of that part of its history. Thanks.

[Lester Polfus]

While I'm not recommending it to anyone, it is possible to safely decock a safety-only CZ.
1. Point gun in a safe direction
2. Block hammer with index finger
3. Press trigger; hammer will pinch finger
4. Release trigger; firing pin block is now activated
5. Lower hammer by slowly removing finger; hammer will stop on half-cock notch

I certainly agree that this is the least unsafe way to do this.

I carried a CZ pattern gun with no decocker for a brief period. I did not consider it a TDA gun. I considered it a SA gun with a second strike capability.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

You can carry the gun either way. If you like manual safeties and all your other carry guns have a manual safety, carry it condition 1.

If you like TDA and your other carry guns are TDA or DAO, carry it in condition 2.

I had an SP01 safety version and it was one of my main carry guns for a couple years. I first carried it condition 1, then when I became a convert to the advantages of TDA I carried it in condition 2.

Manually decocking really isnt that big a deal once you've done it a couple hundred times, although having a decocker is certainly much better, particularly for reholstering after a shooting.

After a while of manually decocking the pistol and carrying it condition 2, I ended up trading the SP01 for a CZ with a decocker.

Regarding carrying a hammer fired gun in condition 0 vs a fully cocked striker (p320,vp9,walther, many others nowadays) I personally dont think there is a big difference, but thats a whole other discussion.
The comment above about the drop safety being deactivated on a condition 0 CZ is false, and a hammer fired gun also has the advantage of being unlikely to fire after a drop unless the muzzle is pointed at/near the ground, while a striker fired gun would be most likely to fire after a drop if the muzzle is pointed upward.

[Oldherkpilot]

You certainly can lower the hammer on a CZ without a decocker. However, I had better not EVER hear you say shit about gross vs fine motor skills and whether I need to slingshot my slide.😁

[Bucky]

Obviously the difference is a cocked hammer gun has a disabled firing pin safety or drop safety.

But then again we've heard reports of some striker guns having that same feature........

Since you quoted my post, which was referring to a 92, both these statements are false. The drop safety of a cocked 92 is the half cock notch. Ernest Langdon did a video during the P320 debacle where he drops his 92 repeatedly, hammer cocked and a primed case chambered. The gun never ignited the primer. It did drop to half cock. Ernie also had a trigger job on this particular model. I suspect it may not have dropped to half cock on a factory FS, but I’m not about to beat mine up to test this.

If you look at the 92 trigger geometry, with the hammer cocked and trigger forward, the firing pin safety has not yet been disengaged. The trigger must move rearward to disengage the firing pin safety.

So neither the firing pin safety or drop safety is disengaged if the hammer is cocked and the trigger is resting in its forward position.

[Navin Johnson]

Since you quoted my post, which was referring to a 92, both these statements are false. The drop safety of a cocked 92 is the half cock notch. Ernest Langdon did a video during the P320 debacle where he drops his 92 repeatedly, hammer cocked and a primed case chambered. The gun never ignited the primer. It did drop to half cock. Ernie also had a trigger job on this particular model. I suspect it may not have dropped to half cock on a factory FS, but I’m not about to beat mine up to test this.

If you look at the 92 trigger geometry, with the hammer cocked and trigger forward, the firing pin safety has not yet been disengaged. The trigger must move rearward to disengage the firing pin safety.

So neither the firing pin safety or drop safety is disengaged if the hammer is cocked and the trigger is resting in its forward position.


Didn't realize that on '92 I don't know if that's true on others.

So the 92 is equally safe to carry cocked and unlocked as a p320 or VP9 or the new Walther PDP etc.

Kind of my point about the people who are concerned with fingering the hammer down of the CZ My point is why bother just put in the holster.

[Clusterfrack]

Didn't realize that on '92 I don't know if that's true on others.

So the 92 is equally safe to carry cocked and unlocked as a p320 or VP9 or the new Walther PDP etc.

Kind of my point about the people who are concerned with fingering the hammer down of the CZ My point is why bother just put in the holster.

That’s an interesting point. Most TDAs, including CZs, are drop safe with hammer back.

If the gun can be safety holstered (thumbing the hammer), it’s safe. However, drawing the C0 gun is a bit more concerning, although no more so than for a striker gun with a light trigger.

[45dotACP]

Most CZ TDA guns can have the hammer lowered by the "thumb roll" technique. Competition shooters have been using that for a while IIRC

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Joe in PNG]

Install one of these (https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/triggers/cz-75sa-tactical-sports-single-action-only-trigger-black-al.html), and treat it like a Hipower.

[1911Nut]

I shoot and carry several different CZ pistols, with a few different requirement for safe management.

I shoot a SA/DA CZ Shadowline Compact (no FP block) in IDPA CCP division. I leave it cocked with the thumb safety applied for CCP competition and when I use it for EDC.

I shoot a couple of SA/DA CZ Shadow SP01 pistols and one CZ Shadowline Tac II pistol (no FP block) in IDPA . . . . sometimes in SSP division which requires that the pistol hammer be manually lowered to the FULLY down position prior to begin the course of fire. I manually lower the hammer to the fully down position after loading to be in compliance with IDPA rules for the SSP division.

Those same SA/DA CZ Shadow SP01 pistols and that Shadowline Tac II pistol (no FP block) are sometimes shot in ESP division, which allow the shooter to start with the hammer cocked and the thumb safety applied. I start with the pistol cocked and the thumb safety applied prior to beginning the course of fire, which is allowed for the ESP division.


I shoot a couple of SA/DA CZ Shadow SP01 pistols (no FB block) which have been converted to SA only and have optics mounted on them in Carry Optics division in IDPA competition. I carry them with the hammer cocked and thumb safety applied.

Additionally:

I occasionally compete with 1911 pistols and also occasionally use them for EDC. I carry them in Condition 1 for both competition (IDPA ESP division) and for EDC.

I occasionally compete with Glock pistols and and occasionally use them for EDC. I carry them the same way for both competition (IDPA ESP, SSP, or CCP division, depending on the pistol) and for EDC.

That's a fairly significant different set of administrative actions required to safely carry and use the above described pistols, and, depending on the specific task at hand, those actions contain variables depending on how you intend to use (and for what purpose) that pistol on that day.

I do not consider myself an expert pistol shooter. But I am intensely aware that if I forget which pistol I am using and for what purpose, the consequences could potentially be horrifying

My recommendation would be to determine which carry condition for your CZ best fits your personal needs and your current skill and confidence level. A CZ with no FP block and/or no decocker can be safely managed, but it cannot be carelessly managed safely. And if you do decide to carry it with the hammer down, I recommend the half cock position, despite the IDPA rules (unless you are shooting it in an IDPA match!)

YMMV