Recommended iron sight alternative to red dot for aging eyes?

[Chris17404]

Hi all,

I considered putting this post is in the red dot sights section, but this seemed like the most appropriate place.

For someone who is not yet ready to fully adopt red dot sights on their pistols (for whatever reason), I'm curious what you'd recommend in the way of iron sights for someone who is 48 years old and finding the ability to focus on the front sight more challenging and transitioning eyes focus takes longer. I wear prescription eye glasses all day every day. I also have high astigmatism in both eyes. It is 100% corrected (20/15 vision) when wearing my glasses, so I do see clearly. I have a basic red dot on my Ruger 22/45 and I realize all of the benefits of red dot sighted pistols. The dot on my 22/45 is a small starburst even with my glasses on, but it's totally fine when focusing on the target. I am, however, not quite ready to transition fully over to red dots (5 different 9mm Glocks of various models). I'd like to see the technology mature a bit more before investing in them.

In the meantime, I'd like to experiment with some different iron sights and see if things improve. Right now I have Trijicon HD XR sights on all of my Glocks. They have worked well for me, but I'd like to see if there's something else out there that draws my eye to the front sight a bit better. When I look at all of the various sights and colors available, I feel like a basic bright white front sight may work very well. When out in the world and aiming/shooting at stuff, I'd think a bright white dot could be a nice contrast to the surroundings. I have also never tried fiber optic sights yet. The 10-8 Performance fiber optic front sight (https://www.10-8performance.com/glock-front-sight-all-styles/) and low profile rear (https://www.10-8performance.com/glock-rear-sight-low-profile-standard-height/) have drawn my interest as well.

If you are experiencing similar eye issues to me and still use iron sights I'd like to hear what your experiences have been and what you may recommend. Thank you for your time.

Chris

[D-der]

I've had good luck with Dawson F/O front and
blacked out rear, prior to getting hooked on dot's.

[KevH]

Sights are all about preference. For me...

I prefer a narrow front sight with either a red fiber optic (Dawson) or a gold or white gold (not brass) bead.

It needs to be paired with a black finely serrated rear sight. I prefer an original BoMar or Heinie sight with the outer edges knocked down to make them not sharp.

This is my favorite Glock rear:
https://www.heinie.com/glock-original-style-rear-sight-only-all-black.html

It's made to mimic a BoMar. Pair it with a Dawson .105 width fiber optic of the appropriate height for your preferred point of impact and you're in business.

[RJ]

Outdoors, a Dawson Fiber Optic front ought to be pretty bright, especially on sunny days. Indoors, or in dimmer conditions, an orange Ameriglo front with tritium insert might work. To be honest a basic steel front post sight, primered with a good quality white layer, overtopped with traffic cone orange can be surprisingly effective (and cheap, too.) Just thinking out loud, over the front sights I've tried over the last 3-5 years. To be honest though, if you have a front sight that works for you, why would you want to change?

Also; and I'm just curious, when you say you want to "see the technology mature a bit more before investing in them", what exactly are you referring to, in today's pistol red dot marketspace, that is falling short for you?

[ubervic]

OP, I'm about a decade older than you and have had poor vision at front-sight distance for years. I did install an RDS setup on my main pistol about 3 years ago and liked it. For some reasons, I then fell completely out of the pistol world until the past few months.

RDS technology marches forward, and there are good options to satisfy most budgets. However, I'm still working out some things with my gear and so I'm not ready to commit to one.

Meanwhile, I selected the Ameriglo Spartan sights and like them a lot. Might favorite iron sights for my vision. Orange front sight with tritium center, blacked-out tritium at rear. Ample notch at rear provides good sight picture and makes finding/centering front sight easy.

[Jim Watson]

My match gun sights are fiber optic front, black rear.
My hideout guns have fiber optic fore and aft, the G43 the TFO FO/Tritium combination and a friend likes FO at both ends.

Dawson is a major vendor of fiber optic sights
https://dawsonprecision.com/sights/glock-sights/
and they sell white inserts if you want to try a white bead instead.
https://dawsonprecision.com/sights/hi-output-fiber-optic/


When your fiber gets smoked up, replace it.
These folks sell fiber in many colors for a few dollars PER YARD.
http://shop.fiberopticproducts.com/Fiber-Optic-Lighting/Fluorescent-Fiber/Fluorescent-Fiber-Gun-Archery-Sight

[gato naranja]

I will also give a recommendation for the Dawson F/O fronts for general use when there is some light to be had. I can get little use from a standard Ruger GP100 front blade, but the Dawson will get me by.

I prefer the green rods, but color perception variation means YMMV. Much can also be said for a white rear face that mimics the old, square bead, gold "Sourdough" front blade, and even the vertical white "skunk stripe" down the center as XS used to put on some of their front irons has done okay for me.

In my spare time, I have been experimenting with turning a Dawson into a low-buck, faux-McGivern "gold" (actually brass) sight. If I can ever get the thing completely nailed down to my satisfaction, I will post it on p-f.

[Outpost75]

The good thing about cataract surgery and interoccular lens implants in both eyes is that at age 72 I see iron sights like a 20-year-old again. Before that I used big dot XS sights. Red dots didn't work as the spot floated like a miss-shapen, melted dog turd.

[Clusterfrack]

...finding the ability to focus on the front sight more challenging and transitioning eyes focus takes longer.

Try shooting target focus with iron sights. You will need a reliable grip that produces a repeatable index during draws and transitions. If you can "automatically" align front and rear sights to an acceptable degree, there's no need to bring your vision back to the irons. You can confirm alignment of sights with each other, and with the target while they remain blurry. This is how I shoot almost all types of targets unless it's a very high difficulty (e.g. 50+ yds, etc.)

https://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/noir-training-dont-focus-on-front-sight.jpg

[BillSWPA]

I have tried fiber optic sights on two pistols, and in both cases I went back to a standard front blade. I found that the fiber optic caused me to shoot high.

What I find helps most are:

1) High contrast between the colored element of the front sight and the remainder of the front sight.

2) Dark, non-reflective black rear and area of the front surrounding the colored portion.

3) Enough light between the front post and rear notch to see the light on either side of the front sight, but not so much that misalignment becomes too easy.

My current favorite sights are Night Fision green tritium with an orange ring in front, black rings in the rear, and a square notch.

[Joe Mac]

Meanwhile, I selected the Ameriglo Spartan sights and like them a lot. Might favorite iron sights for my vision. Orange front sight with tritium center, blacked-out tritium at rear. Ample notch at rear provides good sight picture and makes finding/centering front sight easy.

This, for me. And as Clusterfrack mentioned, I have no trouble shooting with target focus inside of 15 yards or so -- my eye tracks the big orange dot as if it were an optic.

[Chris17404]

Thank you for the recommendations so far. That's a lot of good stuff to consider and think about.



Also; and I'm just curious, when you say you want to "see the technology mature a bit more before investing in them", what exactly are you referring to, in today's pistol red dot marketspace, that is falling short for you?

Mainly waiting to see if a standard mounting footprint comes about and if sealed emitters become the norm.

[Elwin]

My current preference is the HD XR you're already familiar with, or alternatively a lot of orange paint on a black sight.

On my previous set of carry guns, I had fiber optic sights with green fiber installed and then the face of the sight housing painted orange. I really liked that setup as well. If light is getting to the fiber, it looks kindof like a square HD XR with daylight visible tritium. What I liked about it was that if the light was right, the fiber was very visible (green works better for my eyes than red), and in other light, that orange paint was doing the job. It basically worked to give me a useable sight picture in everything but total darkness.

I picked that idea up from someone here, I forget who. It's worth a try if you like the HD XR but think fiber may be an advantage for you.

[Wondering Beard]

The 10-8 Performance fiber optic front sight (https://www.10-8performance.com/glock-front-sight-all-styles/) and low profile rear (https://www.10-8performance.com/glock-rear-sight-low-profile-standard-height/) have drawn my interest as well.

I'm in my late 50s and clear front sight focus has been gone for a long time now and the 10-8s pretty much what I run. Easy to see (even in light where the tritium is not yet showing) and focus on even though that focus isn't sharp. Only a gold bead (as on the Wilson Combat Glock sights) shows up brighter in all lights.



https://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/noir-training-dont-focus-on-front-sight.jpg

The photo on the left is pretty much what I see whether I focus on the front sight or on the target, so a black rear and something shiny up front is what I want.

[revchuck38]

I'm 70 and I've gone with Ameriglo Hackathorns on my M&Ps, another Ameriglo set on my PX4s which I think is only available through Langdon Tactical, and Night Fision front/Dawson .145 plain rear on my Walther P99Cs. What these sights all have in common is a big, fat orange front sight with a tritium insert and a plain black rear. The revolvers I carry all have two coats of white paint under a coat of bright orange on the front sight.

[BN]

https://warrentactical.com/product/2-lamp-tritium-set-1-lamp-wide-notch-rear-sight-and-1-lg-lamp-front-sight/

I use these sights on all my Glocks. I use the .245 tall front sight and use drive the dot sight picture. The front sight is .140 wide and the rear notch is .150 wide and my old eyes see this better than anything else I've tried.

Glock with Warren on the left and an XS big dot on a Jframe to compare.

83559

[CraigS]

If you decide to try Dawson FO sights be sure to get one of each color tube. I use the green/yellow tube because to my eyes that color is brightest when the light isn't so good. My wife saw the Dawson and immediately asked if hers was on the way yet. When I did get hers installed, I grabbed the 4 different color tubes, handed them to her and asked her to hold them up w/ the ends pointing to her and the same length of tube exposed beyond her hand. Her eyes said the red was brightest so that is what she has. Also tubes come in two widths, .040" and .060". The .060 makes a larger brighter dot so any FO sight I buy that has the .040, I drill out. A common 1/16" drill bit is .062" so it is perfect tool to enlarge the hole. I also usually take 3-4 tries at melting the end of the tube so it swells to a littler larger diameter for a little larger and brighter sight. Hold the tube vertically over a lighter flame to get it to swell. If you hold it sideways it will usually swell fine but also sags downward so your visible dot is not centered in the sight.

[CSW]

I'm 58, and have been trying to avoid jumping into the RDS world.
Up until about last summer, a black rear sight and a fiber front was all I needed for sight alignment.
I'm wearing trifocal glasses now, and in order to get a good sight picture, I have to use the "reading" part of the glasses, which means that I have to tilt my head waaaaaay back.
Very unproductive and uncomfortable.
I just found and ordered these :


SSP Eyewear Top Focal Tactical Safety Glasses Kit with Assorted Interchangeable 1.75 Top Focal Lenses, TF175 AMZ KIT

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08K4H4HSK/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_TMTAEF9FMF72VSBTG5A1?_encod ing=UTF8&psc=1.

Hopeful that they will be an asset in finding the front sight, before taking the plunge into the RDS world.

[19852+]

I've had good luck with Dawson F/O front and
blacked out rear, prior to getting hooked on dot's.

Eat healthy for healthy eyes. But Trijicon HD XR or plain black rear w/ Trij XD XR front work for me and my late middle age eyes.

[blues]

I'm in my late 60's and have a bit of astigmatism but only wear 1.25x cheaters when reading or using the laptop indoors or in dim light. (No glasses outdoors or for driving, etc.)

I find the Trijicon HDs and the Ameriglo Bolds fine for me...but this is obviously something which will be different for different folks.

[Leroy Suggs]

For my 77 year old eyes (damm I'm old) the Ameriglo Spartan Operater or Bolds work best.
The Trijicon HD works good too but are too sharp and pointy on the rear for me.

Red dots bloom badly so I have no use for them.

[revchuck38]

FWIW, fiber optic sights don’t work for me, the dot is too small. I only have them on one pistol, a CZ-75, and that’s because nobody makes the kind I want for those pistols.

[vcdgrips]

1. Ameriglos Spartan Operators or their functional equivalents.

Years ago, folks like TLG, Chuck Haggard, Erick G, Spencer Keepers, I dare say myself, and others I am sure, were independently taking the OEM factory painted front (round and square) in both the .125 and .140 widths and mating them with a variety of .180 rears (same and contrasting tritium as the fronts etc.). This approach was on the heels of using orange finger nail polish, Testor brand model paint or orange reflective tape on the front sight.

https://pistol-training.com/articles/the-johno-diy-high-visibility-front-sight/

2. A quality red or green FO i.e. Dwson

3. The best of both worlds would be a tritium/FO combo. Historically, there were durability issues with FOs. If the right folks told me that somebody's combo trit/fo front was duty worthy, I would seriously consider taking it for a spin with an eye toward converting across the board. (6 Glocks)

[HCM]

Hi all,

I considered putting this post is in the red dot sights section, but this seemed like the most appropriate place.

For someone who is not yet ready to fully adopt red dot sights on their pistols (for whatever reason), I'm curious what you'd recommend in the way of iron sights for someone who is 48 years old and finding the ability to focus on the front sight more challenging and transitioning eyes focus takes longer. I wear prescription eye glasses all day every day. I also have high astigmatism in both eyes. It is 100% corrected (20/15 vision) when wearing my glasses, so I do see clearly. I have a basic red dot on my Ruger 22/45 and I realize all of the benefits of red dot sighted pistols. The dot on my 22/45 is a small starburst even with my glasses on, but it's totally fine when focusing on the target. I am, however, not quite ready to transition fully over to red dots (5 different 9mm Glocks of various models). I'd like to see the technology mature a bit more before investing in them.

In the meantime, I'd like to experiment with some different iron sights and see if things improve. Right now I have Trijicon HD XR sights on all of my Glocks. They have worked well for me, but I'd like to see if there's something else out there that draws my eye to the front sight a bit better. When I look at all of the various sights and colors available, I feel like a basic bright white front sight may work very well. When out in the world and aiming/shooting at stuff, I'd think a bright white dot could be a nice contrast to the surroundings. I have also never tried fiber optic sights yet. The 10-8 Performance fiber optic front sight (https://www.10-8performance.com/glock-front-sight-all-styles/) and low profile rear (https://www.10-8performance.com/glock-rear-sight-low-profile-standard-height/) have drawn my interest as well.

If you are experiencing similar eye issues to me and still use iron sights I'd like to hear what your experiences have been and what you may recommend. Thank you for your time.

Chris

Another recommendation for Dawson Fiber Optics here. The key to using these fast is going to be focusing on the target via the rear notch just like with the dot.

[Clusterfrack]

Color makes a big difference for me. Green fibers look way more crisp to my eyes than red.

[BillSWPA]

I'm 58, and have been trying to avoid jumping into the RDS world.
Up until about last summer, a black rear sight and a fiber front was all I needed for sight alignment.
I'm wearing trifocal glasses now, and in order to get a good sight picture, I have to use the "reading" part of the glasses, which means that I have to tilt my head waaaaaay back.
Very unproductive and uncomfortable.
I just found and ordered these :


SSP Eyewear Top Focal Tactical Safety Glasses Kit with Assorted Interchangeable 1.75 Top Focal Lenses, TF175 AMZ KIT

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08K4H4HSK/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_TMTAEF9FMF72VSBTG5A1?_encod ing=UTF8&psc=1.

Hopeful that they will be an asset in finding the front sight, before taking the plunge into the RDS world.

Try Varilux X lenses the next time you get new glasses. They have a hexagonal pattern of distance, mid range, and close correction sections throughout the lens. I really like mine. They are expensive, but worth the cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Try Varilux X lenses the next time you get new glasses. They have a hexagonal pattern of distance, mid range, and close correction sections throughout the lens. I really like mine. They are expensive, but worth the cost.


Totally agree! I don't need a correction to shoot, but Varilux X are the first and only progressives that I've been able to use for shooting. There is really no comparison between the X and anything else I've tried. Don't let your optometrist talk you into getting a competing design either. It's not the same.

[HCM]

Thank you for the recommendations so far. That's a lot of good stuff to consider and think about.




Mainly waiting to see if a standard mounting footprint comes about and if sealed emitters become the norm.



You will be waiting a long time. The number of foot prints have narrowed but you’re never going to see everybody using one universal footprint. Particularly if you were waiting to see that result from the marketplace. We’ve already been through a 30 year cycle of this with Carbines.

Even with something like military rifle optics you have organizations like NATO trying to impose a standard. While officially Picatinny/M1913 is “the standard” you still have NATO members using the old STANG mounts, members using flat top ARs with weaver rather than 1913 rails and the UK SUSAT mounting foot print.

Even with Carbines you never had one “ norm.” You had Aimpoint versus EO Tech Versus prism /ACOG versus those weird Trijicon/Meprolight reflex sights and now LPVOs.

As discussed in this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51183-Standard-Mount-System some manufacturers have a proprietary interest in maintaining their own footprint.

For LE/MIL duty use enclosed emitters will become the standard but that does not necessarily equal a standard foot print. For example, despite the clear superiority of cross bolt mounting systems you have SIG making a faux enclosed emitter in the form of the removable hood on the Romeo2 in order to keep using their proprietary top mounted screw foot print.

I don’t think open emitter sights will go away completely you will just see the market bifurcate.

All of that to say I think the waiting for the marketplace to mature thing as a cop out to avoid going to a dot.

In all honesty if you’ve been shooting iron sights for a long time and you’ve attained a level of skill with them transitioning from irons to the dot requires more work than someone who’s never shot before starting with the dot.

Two things that make it easier are getting some professional dot specific instruction and applying what you learned using a gun that only has a dot. I am a big believer in back up iron sights for duty or self-defensies but for training purposes, particularly transitioning a long time iron site shooter to a dot, a dot only gun is an excellent training tool. You can leave the back up irons off the gun and add them once you get confident with the dot.

For myself, I went through a period of a few years where I was working with dots on my own but they were not yet approved for duty use. I found working with the dot made me a better and faster iron sight shooter. So even if you don’t want to fully commit to carrying a dot, putting a dot on one of your five Glocks still has value.

As far as system maturity, the ACRO P-2 mounted via an optic specific direct mill mount is as good as it gets at this point.

[P.E. Kelley]

https://warrentactical.com/product/2-lamp-tritium-set-1-lamp-wide-notch-rear-sight-and-1-lg-lamp-front-sight/

I use these sights on all my Glocks. I use the .245 tall front sight and use drive the dot sight picture. The front sight is .140 wide and the rear notch is .150 wide and my old eyes see this better than anything else I've tried.

Glock with Warren on the left and an XS big dot on a Jframe to compare.

83559

At 62, I still want to shoot irons. For me...^ This is the way

Ask yourself...when was the last time you read anything where you WANTED smaller print?

BIG front sights with rear notches wide enough for suit your tastes.

Personally, I run a notch just wide enough to fit the BIG front (no light bars). That gives me a "green light" to
break the shot when I see a full front sight.

[Glockman9mm]

Ameriglo protector sight set $60 off Amazon. Same as Hackathorne set but with a bright yellow/green front. Have this set on my twin G19 Gen. 4s and my G43. After trying several setups this works best for me. I’m only 39 but it’s a large and crisp sight picture.

[HeavyDuty]

My eyes are aging too. I prefer Ameriglo hacks (not called that anymore) - the bright orange front and serrated black back works well for me. Three white dots are the worst possible for me, followed by white rear outline.

[CSW]

My eyes are aging too. I prefer Ameriglo hacks (not called that anymore) - the bright orange front and serrated black back works well for me. Three white dots are the worst possible for me, followed by white rear outline.

Have these on an old XD.
They are very easy to use.

[Chris17404]

Hi all. Thanks again for the insights. I appreciate it, especially the suggestion to try "target focused with irons". I read thru the related thread and watched that video. Some good stuff to try and see if it works for me. (Software before hardware.) I like the painters tape idea for the front iron sight. I'm going to try that before making a decision on replacing irons. I just purchased a G48 so I need to get a new set of sights, but I will try "target focused" my existing HD XR's first. I'll report on what I find.

[Johnny Bravo]

Novak adjustable rear and Night Fission front combo work for me.

https://www.novaksights.com/

[mmc45414]

I am another guy who is not willing to all in on RDS (the nice sights cost as much as my pistols...), am another old guy (just turned 63), am another guy that has had lens implants for cataracts, am another guy that used to like a wide notch but went to more narrow notch, am another Dawson fan, and I caved to three FO dots:

85290

One thing Dawson asserts is that their dots are recessed, and I think they kinda are, anyway I like the look.

Here is exactly what I bought; I believe it is their higher "Target" profile rear. I think it is also subtle bout quicker to have a bigger back flat plae with a notch in in it that jumps out a little better, but that could be malarkey with me just convincing myself I am crafty :cool:

85291

[peterb]

Almost 60…. Ameriglo CAP orange front, plain serrated black rear works for me. I’ve tried guns with a fiber front and similar rear and also liked those, so may try a front swap at some point.

[No.6]

Roughly similar to the 'Hackathorn' but for PX4: https://langdontactical.com/ameriglo-sight-set-px4-compact/

(no serrations on the rear)

[HCM]

I am another guy who is not willing to all in on RDS (the nice sights cost as much as my pistols...), am another old guy (just turned 63), am another guy that has had lens implants for cataracts, am another guy that used to like a wide notch but went to more narrow notch, am another Dawson fan, and I caved to three FO dots:

85290

One thing Dawson asserts is that their dots are recessed, and I think they kinda are, anyway I like the look.

Here is exactly what I bought; I believe it is their higher "Target" profile rear. I think it is also subtle bout quicker to have a bigger back flat plae with a notch in in it that jumps out a little better, but that could be malarkey with me just convincing myself I am crafty :cool:

85291

I have the same Dawson 3 FO adjustable set up on a G35 converted to 9mm.

Re Notch width: Despite the narrow notch, in practice, the two red FO in the rear give my eyes the effect of a wider notch when shooting at speed, similar to the effect of a white outline rear on say, a S&W revolver.

[JohnO]

It looks like everyone up to this point talked about sights and what type to use. How about a different perspective. Your vision.

You said you wear corrective lenses. My optometrist wants to put me in contacts at -2.75 and had me try -3.0. I asked for and wear -2.50 in my dominate eye. At -2.75 sight focus and reading is a little difficult. At -2.50 I'm golden for now and the last few years. I don't have any difficulty with mismatched power lenses probably because they are close enough. Plus I do not feel it effects my vision. Actually in my Ophthalmologist's office I read the 20/20 line with my -2.50 contact.

I would explore the idea of detuning your dominate eye's prescription. You might be able to get what you need (clear sights) with a slight reduction in your lens strength. Even if your vision in your dominate eye does not test out as good as it should with the proper prescription the brain can compensate and your overall (both eyes) vision may not be compromised.

Obviously your mileage may vary and this will be dependent upon your circumstances.

[CSW]

I just purchased a new set of shootin glasses, that have a bifocal at the TOP of the lens.
When I get into position to shoot, I can actually see the sights now, and the target has a blur.
Imagine at 58, being able to see the sights again!
I wear a trifocal progressive daily, since 56.

[mmc45414]

Re Notch width: Despite the narrow notch, in practice, the two red FO in the rear give my eyes the effect of a wider notch when shooting at speed
When I went to the rear FO dots I started with a wider notch, then changed to a narrower one, just as you suggest.
I always said I hated rear dots but changed my mind. One thing I think is significant is using different color rods, I think the green up front is brighter, works out well for me.