2000 rounds with the Staccato P DPO

[JSGlock34]

I've long been 2011 curious and after trying a friend's Staccato P, I decided to scratch the itch. I ordered a Staccato P DPO (steel frame) direct from Staccato via their 'Heroes Program' - besides a nice discount, because I had the pistol shipped to one of their preferred dealers, they picked up the transfer fee as well. The purchase process was very easy, and the pistol arrived according to their posted timeline (about 90 days). I mounted a Trijicon RM06 with the corresponding OEM DPO plate, ordered some extra magazines, and got started.

83176

As of this post I've put 2275 documented rounds through the pistol. Just about every thread on the Staccato 2011 pivots around the gun's reliability, so I'll cut right to the chase. The gun runs. I've had one malfunction during this entire period, and I'm 99% sure I caused it by applying thumb pressure to the slide during the second range session, causing a FTF. That was within the first five hundred rounds with the gun, and I haven't had an issue since. Perhaps I'm explaining this one away, but I've shot 9mm 1911s in the past (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32196-First-1-000-rounds-with-the-Wilson-Combat-CQB-Elite-Carry-9mm-1911), and they're susceptible to the same malfunction. Once I reminded myself to be mindful of keeping my support hand thumb away from the slide, the gun has run.

Now, this wasn't a 2000 round challenge, and honestly I have no plans to conduct one. My experience with 9mm 1911s has taught me that these guns are sensitive to lubrication issues. I keep the gun well lubed and am typically wiping it down and applying new lubricant (either Slip 2000 EWL or Lucas) every other range session (@ 300-500 round intervals). The gun runs better wet, and a few minutes of more frequent maintenance keeps it going.

I think we can have a legitimate conversation about whether the gun's lubrication requirements and the sensitivity of the slide motion is an issue for a duty firearm. When I shot 9mm 1911s more frequently, I had wondered how they would perform in military environmental testing. My guns tend to lead a soft life, so I'm not terribly concerned, but perhaps this isn't the gun for a desert environment or the apocalypse.

Here's the breakdown of the 2275 rounds of ammunition used so far...

61 x 147 gr. Speer G2 JHP
1244 x 147 gr. Federal/American Eagle FMJ
238 x 124 gr. Federal/American Eagle FMJ
724 x 124 gr. Norma FMJ
8 x 115 gr. Federal/American Eagle FMJ

The Federal/AE 147 gr. FMJ load has long been my preferred training round for my Glock and Beretta handguns. However, my perception was that the slide cycled somewhat slower with the 147gr. load, and that I was almost waiting for the muzzle to come back down. The 124 gr. FMJ rounds seemed to impart a bit more slide velocity and bring out the 'flat shooting' character of the Staccato more, and I eventually moved to the Norma load, which has proven accurate and reliable (not to mention available at a lower price point). I'll note the malfunction I induced was with the 147 gr. load. I've recently wondered whether the pistol might benefit from +P ammunition for defensive use to impart a bit more velocity to the slide, and I plan to put some Gold Dot and Critical Duty Flexlock +P loads through the gun in the near future. In any case, I plan to keep with 124 gr. for practice.

So what else about the gun? To paraphrase Colonel Whelen, only accurate pistols are interesting. I'm not the world's best 25 yard shooter, but the Staccato makes me want to put up a B8 bull and shoot for score. Below unsupported group at 25 yards isn't my highest score with the gun, but I think the six shots through the same hole illustrate the kind of accuracy this gun is capable of.

83177

Perhaps my favorite exercise is shooting 1" squares at 7 yards. I typically start and end my range sessions with an accuracy focused course of fire. The Staccato makes it easy. The trigger is not as light as my Wilson Combat, but it is smooth with a crisp break. I can shoot a Glock trigger well, but 1911 style triggers are sublime.

83178

I've shot most of the standard tactical drills at this point; 'FAST', 'The Test', etc. My FAST times could use some improvement - my best are in the high fives with this pistol. I haven't gotten the slide lock reloads where I want them yet; I'm simply not as smooth using the support hand thumb to activate the slide release. It'll get there. However, I'll note that feeding the Staccato is a breeze. Between the extreme taper on the magazines and the cavernous magwell, it is almost difficult to get the magazine to hang up on insertion. Here's a 100 on 'The Test', shot from concealment, on a FBI IP-1 bullseye.

83179

I have eight 17 round and four 20 round magazines; all are marked GEN3. Despite the magazines being the Achilles heel of the 2011 design, I've yet to experience a magazine related malfunction (there's a statement bound to attract the wrath of the Gun Gods). I had been especially suspicious of the 20 round magazines, as I had seen failures to lock back with GEN2 20 round magazines on a friend's gun. The mags seem...fine. The only issue I've observed is that dropping a partially loaded magazine can cause the spring to compress and rounds to spill out. Certainly these aren't the only magazines susceptible to that problem.

I've been carrying the pistol in either a JMCK 'George' AIWB holster or a LAS Concealment Saya 2.0 with the X300U attached. The latter has become my typical carry choice, with a 20 round spare magazine carried in a JMCK high ride pouch. With the X300U attached, it is not a small pistol; I do find it somewhat more comfortable to carry without the light. The X300U also protrudes just far enough past the muzzle for the lens to get significantly fouled; regularly applying Cat Crap has become part of my maintenance routine. However, I do like the shooting characteristics with the X300U attached, as well as the illumination capability. So far I've left the large magwell attached; I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to print as much as I thought it would. I also have a Safariland 6390RDS for my battle belt; it works just like my other ALS holsters. I've also ordered a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB for this gun; the VM2 is my favorite carry method for the 1911 and I want to see how it works for the Staccato.

83182

So one other note about the pistol. At the end of my second range session, I noticed the web of my shooting hand was getting beat up, and there was a significant 'hot spot' where the grip and thumb safety are blended. It was interfering with my enjoyment of the pistol, and considering the high price of entry, I sent off a note to Staccato asking what could be done. Considering I sent the email on a Sunday, I wasn't expecting a response, but customer service responded that night and the gun was on its way back to Staccato the next day (at their expense). It was back in my hands 10 days later, with a worksheet indicating that extra blending to the thumb safety area had been performed. And this absolutely took care of the problem - no more hot spot. Now I'll agree all day long that a pistol at this price point should arrive blended and dehorned, and the customer shouldn't have to address this issue, but Staccato Customer Service's immediate response left me deeply impressed.

Overall, I am deeply enjoying shooting this pistol. It runs well, it is highly accurate, and flat shooting. It is it worth the price of admission? I have a safe full of Glocks that this pistol is not going to replace, but I also find that particular debate uninteresting. There's lot to like about this high capacity 9mm, MRDS equipped pistol with a 1911 trigger. Now I just need to find someone's XL or XC to try out...

[dontshakepandas]

The Staccatos are definitely like shooting with easy mode turned on.

I found that the Tenicor Malus Sol was quite a bit more comfortable than the LAS Saya for carrying with the X300 without giving up any concealment, so you may want to give that a try. Shoot me a PM if you want to save a few bucks on one I don't need anymore.

The C2 is definitely also worth a look. The weight difference was very noticeable when actually carrying for me but I don't feel like it gives up much when actually shooting either.

[secondstoryguy]

My P Duo is still running like a raped ape(duty and SWAT use). I don't treat it with kid gloves and it's still eating everything I feed it(to include 90gr frangible in the shoothouse). No regrets on the purchase but unfortunately I want a c2 now....

[TheNewbie]

Is thumb pressure on the slide as much of an issue on .45s?

My grip can induce malfunctions on some guns, like the Glock 42 due to this issue, but otherwise has not been a problem for me. Especially with my P-07.

[bofe954]

Is thumb pressure on the slide as much of an issue on .45s?

My grip can induce malfunctions on some guns, like the Glock 42 due to this issue, but otherwise has not been a problem for me. Especially with my P-07.

Not the OP...

I can induce malfunctions in any pistol if I grip hard with my support thumb on the slide. I think it's easy to do on 9mm 1911's/2011's because of the tall heavy slide and lower powered ammunition. I can slow a .45 1911 slide easily as well. It was a lot harder for me to do on my CZ shadow and shadow 2 because the slide was so small and my thumb actually sat on the frame instead of the slide.

I think thumb pressure there is a bad habit anyway, doesn't contribute to recoil control, and likely contributes to inaccurate shooting.

[JSGlock34]

I think it's easy to do on 9mm 1911's/2011's because of the tall heavy slide and lower powered ammunition.

I think the combination of the 9mm cartridge, the heavy slide mass originally intended for the .45, and the light recoil spring necessary to run the 9mm reliably - just means the 2011 design is more prone to this kind of malfunction than perhaps some others. I haven't personally encountered this problem with the .45 1911, but retarding the slide is a recipe for problems with any pistol. SoCalDep commented on this particular issue with the Staccato in one of his posts in the red dot forum...


Last week we had another department 1911/2011 certification class...Most of the guns functioned well. One student was putting a lot of pressure on the slide with their thumb and causing failures to feed and eject. He was starting to get the hang of it (a bit) by the end of day one, but then got sick (the next day he thought he had Covid but tested negative) and didn’t return for day two.

Had another student who was having some trouble with thumb placement regarding the safety and slide and had a few (infrequent but enough to know he wasn’t doing it right) malfunctions on day one and a couple early on day two. Ultimately this is a training issue BUT I’m leery of 9mm 1911s that are so easily influenced in a negative way when other guns aren’t. That’s why I think the shorter barrel and more positive slide return of the C2 makes it more reliable.


As noted, this is a training issue, and an easily corrected one.

[M2CattleCo]

I think it’s comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made ‘em black, and put a flag on ‘em. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.

[Hstanton1]

I think it’s comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made ‘em black, and put a flag on ‘em. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.

I think it’s clear at this point that they’re doing something beyond marketing right. They’ve gotten contracts with more agencies than any 9mm 2011 I’m aware of, and seem to be less problematic farming out mag production to a company that actually specializes in making mags seems to have been a huge part of that.

I don’t know, a lot of the anti staccato sentiment I see comes from this forum, and seems to be based on experience with other 2011s or older STIs. I don’t really hear too many negative things about staccatos in terms of reliability or durability, especially considering how popular they’re becoming as duty pistols.

[TGS]

I think it’s comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made ‘em black, and put a flag on ‘em. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.

Do you have anything relevant to share about the current Staccato?

[HCM]

I think it’s comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made ‘em black, and put a flag on ‘em. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.

It would be comical if that’s all they did but they did a lot more than that.

The biggest change being re-designing the magazines and outsourcing production of same. That process has continued resulting in the GEN 3 mags.

Having seen the prior “Geppetto’s workshop “method STI was using to produce magazines in house I’m amazed any of them worked at all. Based on seeing what I saw I would guess most of the tuning of STI mags that used to go on with simply making them consistent from msg to mag.

But hey I’m sure Dave Dawson, Shawn Armstrong and the engineering talent they brought in don’t know anything about making guns run better or QC more consistent.

[M2CattleCo]

Do you have anything relevant to share about the current Staccato?


I haven’t seen many but I have seen a few FTFeeds and mor fail to lock backs out of them.

Every time I point that out it’s met with the same comment.

The world is a stupid place and it’s moving in the direction of the stupid. I see this in every aspect of the world today.

[Hstanton1]

I haven’t seen many but I have seen a few FTFeeds and mor fail to lock backs out of them.

Every time I point that out it’s met with the same comment.

The world is a stupid place and it’s moving in the direction of the stupid. I see this in every aspect of the world today.

Why do you think your sample size holds more weight than what the guy who posted this thread has documented with his personal gun? Or what agencies like USMS or LASD see in the guns that led them to adopt them?

People being unable to let go of their own biases and look at data for what it is, that’s a big part of why the world is a stupid place.

[M2CattleCo]

My sample size is more guns than OP’s one gun and I’ve seen failures. That’s irrelevant because you don’t want to hear it.

Aside from a light trigger, what does a 2011 bring to the table?

Nothing.

See this https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36518-The-Art-and-Science-of-Keeping-Your-1911-Running 131 page thread about keeping 1911s running that’s been on the first two pages for almost three years? All of that still applies to the 2011. That’s data. People going back to that is a fine example of the state of the world.

[GJM]

Why do you think your sample size holds more weight than what the guy who posted this thread has documented with his personal gun? Or what agencies like USMS or LASD see in the guns that led them to adopt them?

People being unable to let go of their own biases and look at data for what it is, that’s a big part of why the world is a stupid place.

I see a bunch of them and my first question is whether reliability refers to just the pistol, or the pistol and the magazine.

I am curious as to exactly what those LE agencies saw that caused them to adopt the Staccato. I always assumed it was "wanted a 2011, and got someone else to pay for it." I have a P, worked over by Ed Cameron. I haven't shot it enough yet, but every time I do, I come away wondering what is so special about the Staccato compared to a Glock/Walther/M&P/320 to justify 4 times the price and all the magazine hassles.

[Evil_Ed]

The X300U also protrudes just far enough past the muzzle for the lens to get significantly fouled; regularly applying Cat Crap has become part of my maintenance routine. However, I do like the shooting characteristics with the X300U attached, as well as the illumination capability.

FWIW - these things (https://thyrm.com/product/clens-protector/) work really well. You still need to q-tip the outer edge when cleaning/replacing it as it doesn't perfectly cover the lens (there's a tiny tiny gap around the edges as you'd probably expect), but it certainly makes maintenance and lens cleaning easier/faster. Is it worth the price of admission? Entirely up to you...

[Hstanton1]

I see a bunch of them and my first question is whether reliability refers to just the pistol, or the pistol and the magazine.

I am curious as to exactly what those LE agencies saw that caused them to adopt the Staccato. I always assumed it was "wanted a 2011, and got someone else to pay for it." I have a P, worked over by Ed Cameron. I haven't shot it enough yet, but every time I do, I come away wondering what is so special about the Staccato compared to a Glock/Walther/M&P/320 to justify 4 times the price and all the magazine hassles.

This is something that Chuck Pressburg has talked about some in the past. It’s a gun that’s inherently easier to shoot well, and that’s pretty much it. If you’re a very skilled shooter, you’ll see less of a difference in performance between a 2011 and a glock/sig/M&P. I can’t speak to why agencies decided to give 2011s another try, but I’d assume the accuracy potential of the gun and how much the trigger lets you get away with factored into that decision.

The magazine has certainly been the main weak point of the 2011 design. It’s clear at this point though that staccato farming out production of those has resulted in a better magazine. How much better? Well, they don’t have to be tuned nearly as much any more, and the current crop of staccatos are more reliable than STIs of the past.

My experience with them is limited to 3 guns, two of which were range rentals. All have been trouble free, and all have been easy to shoot well particularly strong hand/weak hand only.

[Elwin]

See this https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36518-The-Art-and-Science-of-Keeping-Your-1911-Running 131 page thread about keeping 1911s running that’s been on the first two pages for almost three years? All of that still applies to the 2011. That’s data. People going back to that is a fine example of the state of the world.

In all fairness, that thread has a lot more to it than just “my gun no work, halp” posts. A lot of it it just follows from the average 1911 person being a tinkerer, or the average person on this forum being curious and asking for input or answers to questions.

Also, can we be careful about implying that everyone on this forum who carries a 1911 variant is “stupid?” I’m pretty sure all of them besides me are the opposite.

We could also probably keep this thread focused on the OP’s gun.

[Hstanton1]

My sample size is more guns than OP’s one gun and I’ve seen failures. That’s irrelevant because you don’t want to hear it.

Aside from a light trigger, what does a 2011 bring to the table?

Nothing.

See this https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36518-The-Art-and-Science-of-Keeping-Your-1911-Running 131 page thread about keeping 1911s running that’s been on the first two pages for almost three years? All of that still applies to the 2011. That’s data. People going back to that is a fine example of the state of the world.

Your sample size is considerably smaller than either of the agencies I mentioned. Of the instructors I’ve talked with or seen talk about staccatos in class, none have said that they’re seeing an undue amount of failures with them, or more failures than they see with any gun in class. It’s still a 1911 design so you need to lube it a lot and keep spare parts on hand, but once again it’s clear that these guns are better than the STIs of the past. Whether that’s just because of new mags or because of the other changes implemented, there are enough new guns with new mags out in the shooting world that it’s not hard to see.

Whether 2011s are worth the money or not is a different question and a deeply personal one. If they aren’t worth it for you, cool. But that’s not the question at hand here.

[M2CattleCo]

In all fairness, that thread has a lot more to it than just “my gun no work, halp” posts. A lot of it it just follows from the average 1911 person being a tinkerer, or the average person on this forum being curious and asking for input or answers to questions.

Also, can we be careful about implying that everyone on this forum who carries a 1911 variant is “stupid?” I’m pretty sure all of them besides me are the opposite.

We could also probably keep this thread focused on the OP’s gun.


I’m not implying that anyone carrying a 1911 is stupid, but all the hype around Staccato definitely is.

Maybe it’s just people who haven’t been exposed to 19/2011s for over 20 years, but some of us have seen this before. It’s not the first time.

[Elwin]

I’m not implying that anyone carrying a 1911 is stupid, but all the hype around Staccato definitely is.

Maybe it’s just people who haven’t been exposed to 19/2011s for over 20 years, but some of us have seen this before. It’s not the first time.

My mistake reading what you said then, sorry about that.

I’d agree that there do seem to be a lot of people who are discovering the 1911 family for the first time and getting really excited about it. I’ll also admit I’m somewhat benefiting from that hype (more aftermarket support) but I get the critique.

[shane45]

I dont think those here are all that susceptible to hype. I see more evaluation and interest based on feedback from trusted sources. But your time-line surely suggests opinion based on high strung game guns....




I’m not implying that anyone carrying a 1911 is stupid, but all the hype around Staccato definitely is.

Maybe it’s just people who haven’t been exposed to 19/2011s for over 20 years, but some of us have seen this before. It’s not the first time.

[EVP]

Thanks for the feedback JS. I like these new Staccato guns. I shot a few of the different models and did not come away enamored.

Strangely I prefer my 92s over the staccatos for a few reasons.




I see a bunch of them and my first question is whether reliability refers to just the pistol, or the pistol and the magazine.

I am curious as to exactly what those LE agencies saw that caused them to adopt the Staccato. I always assumed it was "wanted a 2011, and got someone else to pay for it." I have a P, worked over by Ed Cameron. I haven't shot it enough yet, but every time I do, I come away wondering what is so special about the Staccato compared to a Glock/Walther/M&P/320 to justify 4 times the price and all the magazine hassles.

It really is interesting to see the push some companies make to social media,(staccato and walther). They both seemed to hire a bunch of brand ambassadors to exclaim the virtues these guns have. I am wondering if this has something to do with it.

[JSGlock34]

I agree, for me I shot a few staccato models and did not come away enamored. I prefer my 92. I know JS has a few so it would be interesting to hear his take.

I enjoy shooting the Beretta 92; as you noted I've owned a few. Some of my best shooting scores (e.g. FAST) remain with my 92s. In particular my Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical tuned by Ernest is one of my favorite and most dependable firearms. But none of mine are optics models, and in recent years I've fully transitioned to dot guns, so I haven't shot the 92 as much recently, and I haven't (yet) tried a Langdon RDO. So it is hard to make a direct comparison.

Considering this discussion on Staccato/2011 reliability, regardless of pistol design, I've always said to vet your gun and ammunition. For example, it is generally accepted around here that the Beretta 92 is one of the most mature and reliable designs out there, and my experience largely mirrors that. But I also had one recent manufacture 92 that I could not get to run reliably; the gun was hexed and had numerous FTE, decocker, and light strike problems. It was far less reliable over the first 2000 rounds than my experience with the Staccato - or any of my other pistols for that matter. It went back to the mothership and eventually the entire upper was replaced. There are long threads on this forum about tuning the 92 trigger and using the 12# hammer spring (paired with Federal primers); this combination has never proven reliable for me regardless of the 92 model (including ones worked by LTT). But this combination has worked for others here.

So again, vet your gun with your ammunition. Pistols like the Staccato, 1911, and based on my experience a highly tuned 92, are enthusiasts guns. They'll need more attention to maintenance to keep running properly, and its up to the user whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm certainly not replacing my Glocks, but I'm pleased with the initial performance from the Staccato P.

[EVP]

Thanks for the additional feedback and I totally agree on your last paragraph about these guns being enthusiast guns that need a little more care then the popular polymer service guns

In the end, we live is good times that we have these quality options available.

[M2CattleCo]

But your time-line surely suggests opinion based on high strung game guns....

Yeah.

Outside of better/pretuned magazines and marketing, what’s the difference between a Staccato and a Limited 2011?

[HCM]

I enjoy shooting the Beretta 92; as you noted I've owned a few. Some of my best shooting scores (e.g. FAST) remain with my 92s. In particular my Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical tuned by Ernest is one of my favorite and most dependable firearms. But none of mine are optics models, and in recent years I've fully transitioned to dot guns, so I haven't shot the 92 as much recently, and I haven't (yet) tried a Langdon RDO. So it is hard to make a direct comparison.

Considering this discussion on Staccato/2011 reliability, regardless of pistol design, I've always said to vet your gun and ammunition. For example, it is generally accepted around here that the Beretta 92 is one of the most mature and reliable designs out there, and my experience largely mirrors that. But I also had one recent manufacture 92 that I could not get to run reliably; the gun was hexed and had numerous FTE, decocker, and light strike problems. It was far less reliable over the first 2000 rounds than my experience with the Staccato - or any of my other pistols for that matter. It went back to the mothership and eventually the entire upper was replaced. There are long threads on this forum about tuning the 92 trigger and using the 12# hammer spring (paired with Federal primers); this combination has never proven reliable for me regardless of the 92 model (including ones worked by LTT). But this combination has worked for others here.

So again, vet your gun with your ammunition. Pistols like the Staccato, 1911, and based on my experience a highly tuned 92, are enthusiasts guns. They'll need more attention to maintenance to keep running properly, and its up to the user whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm certainly not replacing my Glocks, but I'm pleased with the initial performance from the Staccato P.


Yes.

My Satacatto P is generally reliable and has been 100% with 124 +P Gold dots But for some reason it does not function well with our 115 grain purple Winchester flatpoint training ammo. Runs fine with everything else I’ve tried, even steel case. I’m running all GEN two magazines.

I’m also a big Beretta 92 fan, have several and just acquired an LTT RDO. As mentioned nothing is perfect. I’ve had or encountered three problematic Beretta 92s in the last few years. When I went to buy my Wilson brig tac, I wound up walking out of the store with the display model because the one They got me from the back had a defective mag catch. Tried several different Beretta mags and none would lock in. I bought one of the commercial Beretta LTT’s the gun was off for windage and the front site which is heavily staked in place was visibly off-center. Those are both Tennessee built guns, a couple years ago I bought an Italian made Beretta 92 A1 for my son as a Christmas present and the gun had something funky going on with the frame rail to slide fit causing malfunctions. In the latter two instances the dealer swapped the guns out And there were no issues with the replacements.

Going back to the Stacatto, it’s not a Glock and I don’t expect it to be. Despite the polymer Greg frame the slide is sitting on a metal chassis so practical purposes it is a “all metal” gun. Our prior duty guns, SIG 229R’s in 40 would malfunction
If not lubed regularly. I wouldn’t expect anything different from any other “all metal” gun.

[HCM]

Yeah.

Outside of better/pretuned magazines and marketing, what’s the difference between a Staccato and a Limited 2011?

If you mean between Stacatto and STI produced guns, the first thing is choices in tolerances and the big one is consistently. As with the magazines the old STI had problems with consistency. They were like the proverbial “box of chocolates.”

[shane45]

Ive handled, owned, shot, a ton of STI game guns, especilly when i was shooting IPSC. But I think there was a noticeable shift in thinking and I think that came with the Costa pistols. I bought one. It was a very different animal. So much so I called STI and asked if it was made on a different line or something. They were all consistently well built. As in just as well as any of the Wilsons or Browns in the safe. The answer was no, not a different line or facility and that they had revamped their entire process. It wasnt much longer that the switch to Stacatto occurred. IMO thier shift in focus and thinking shows. Marketing is marketing so thats "whatever" for me. But I think its successful for 2 reasons. A) it seems most really wants a 1911/2011 or want their pistol of choice to behave like one, and they seemed to have possibly pulled it off. My Costa and my Stacatto run exceptionally well.


Yeah.

Outside of better/pretuned magazines and marketing, what’s the difference between a Staccato and a Limited 2011?

[GJM]

I’m not implying that anyone carrying a 1911 is stupid, but all the hype around Staccato definitely is.

Maybe it’s just people who haven’t been exposed to 19/2011s for over 20 years, but some of us have seen this before. It’s not the first time.

To your point, I took a mid size 2011 in .45 acp to NTI in the late 90's.

[willie]

I've owned 2-3 hundred handguns if you count the $25 WW 2 surplus pistols. Always I had connections allowing me to buy others at wholesale or close to it. I have bought many lemons, but in every case the company tried to make it right. If I had the coin in my old age, I would own one of these Georgetown, Texas semi custom pistols because I'm confident that if mine did not run properly, the guys who produced it would resolve the issue. They have that reputation. A 1911 is a 1911. As a group they are like old Harley's and this redneck comment includes $2000 1911's. My credentials: I've shot more dirt clods, stumps, rocks, and tin cans than most people. Jeff Cooper when responding to the question which gun will last longer in the long run, he replied that in the long run we'll all be dead.

[M2CattleCo]

To your point, I took a mid size 2011 in .45 acp to NTI in the late 90's.


The late ‘90s was the proper time to discover 2011s. ;)

[JSGlock34]

Small update - just crossed the 2500 round mark (2505 rounds), including 50 rounds of Speer 124gr. +P Gold Dot. I was pleased with the cycling and accuracy of the +P so will stick with them for now. Plan to test some 135 gr. Critical Duty +P as well.


I found that the Tenicor Malus Sol was quite a bit more comfortable than the LAS Saya for carrying with the X300 without giving up any concealment, so you may want to give that a try. Shoot me a PM if you want to save a few bucks on one I don't need anymore.

This is spot on; I purchased dontshakepandas Tenicor Malus Sol to compare to the LAS Says 2.0 and it is definitely an overall slimmer footprint. Significantly more comfortable. I also like that it has more of a safety block than the LAS; you can still defeat the safety while holstered but it takes a bit more force. One thing I don't like about ambidextrous safeties is the exposed lever while holstered. Generally my preference is single side safeties on 1911 style pistols, but I'll say that I find the ambi on the Staccato to be among the best I've used.

[wvincent]

Small update - just crossed the 2500 round mark (2505 rounds), including 50 rounds of Speer 124gr. +P Gold Dot. I was pleased with the cycling and accuracy of the +P so will stick with them for now. Plan to test some 135 gr. Critical Duty +P as well.



This is spot on; I purchased dontshakepandas Tenicor Malus Sol to compare to the LAS Says 2.0 and it is definitely an overall slimmer footprint. Significantly more comfortable. I also like that it has more of a safety block than the LAS; you can still defeat the safety while holstered but it takes a bit more force. One thing I don't like about ambidextrous safeties is the exposed lever while holstered. Generally my preference is single side safeties on 1911 style pistols, but I'll say that I find the ambi on the Staccato to be among the best I've used.

How about the grip safety? Are you getting good engagement 100% of the time?
I know some folks haven't.

[JSGlock34]

The grip safety hasn’t been an issue for me,

[Elwin]

The grip safety hasn’t been an issue for me,

Follow up question, do you know how far it has to be depressed to release the trigger? After it was posted in the “Safeties” thread I watched that Hilton Yam video where he criticizes taping them down, and he mentioned Staccato factory spec is releasing at 50% travel. To me that seems “untuned” for a duty and self defense gun - I’m in the same camp as Hilton wanting the grip safety cleared basically any time my hand is on the gun. Curious to know if yours ended up being tuned a little more generously. Will it allow the gun to fire even with a really bad grip?

Thinking about it I’m not sure if the wider grip compared to a 1911 helps or hurts with grip safety issues.

[JHC]

Follow up question, do you know how far it has to be depressed to release the trigger? After it was posted in the “Safeties” thread I watched that Hilton Yam video where he criticizes taping them down, and he mentioned Staccato factory spec is releasing at 50% travel. To me that seems “untuned” for a duty and self defense gun - I’m in the same camp as Hilton wanting the grip safety cleared basically any time my hand is on the gun. Curious to know if yours ended up being tuned a little more generously. Will it allow the gun to fire even with a really bad grip?

Thinking about it I’m not sure if the wider grip compared to a 1911 helps or hurts with grip safety issues.

I'm looking forward to this discussion. My sense is the wider grip flattens the web of my hand more and makes sure grip safety contact more sure.

[Caballoflaco]

Follow up question, do you know how far it has to be depressed to release the trigger? After it was posted in the “Safeties” thread I watched that Hilton Yam video where he criticizes taping them down, and he mentioned Staccato factory spec is releasing at 50% travel. To me that seems “untuned” for a duty and self defense gun - I’m in the same camp as Hilton wanting the grip safety cleared basically any time my hand is on the gun. Curious to know if yours ended up being tuned a little more generously. Will it allow the gun to fire even with a really bad grip?

Thinking about it I’m not sure if the wider grip compared to a 1911 helps or hurts with grip safety issues.

On the P I handled recently at the local shop the bump on the grip safety was almost flush with the mainspring housing before it was de-activated. I’ll be tuning it in the next day or so (like I’ve done on other 1911’s) since I ended up taking it home.

With dry fire I haven’t noticed a problem yet with bare hands, but activation leaves something to be desired while wearing my fairly thick leather motorcycle gloves. I haven’t noticed much difference between the widebody and a single stack Springfield that I use with slim grips.

[Tango]

I have had chance to shoot the Stacatto P. Outstanding overall. A good friend of mine, who was a died in the wool Glock guy owned it. He runs that thing like nobody's business and does Glock like maintenance. No issues at all. He just shoots, shoots and then shoots some more. A 25+ year Glock guy, completely converted.

The Stacatto was being discussed at work the other day. I've shot and carried Sigs, Glocks and 1911s. I believe the excitement behind this platform is, that you have all the intrinsic value of a 1911, with double stack capacity. It is also similar is size & weight to that of standard duty issue Glock/Sig.

More capacity than my G17, better trigger than anything out there and a design that is ergonomically superior to the Austrian plastic brick. All things to love in my opinion and a reason I would retire the G17 I carry if the Stacatto P were on our approved list.

[CDFIII]

I have been running two Staccato P's for maybe over a year now both grip safeties seem to have positive activation. Each one seem to activate between the 40 to 50ish percent depressed. It very well may be due to the wide body grip that helps with these. I could tune them up a bit, but to be honest I never really had any issues on single stack 1911's. Just my observations of a sample size of two.

[HCM]

I have had chance to shoot the Stacatto P. Outstanding overall. A good friend of mine, who was a died in the wool Glock guy owned it. He runs that thing like nobody's business and does Glock like maintenance. No issues at all. He just shoots, shoots and then shoots some more. A 25+ year Glock guy, completely converted.

The Stacatto was being discussed at work the other day. I've shot and carried Sigs, Glocks and 1911s. I believe the excitement behind this platform is, that you have all the intrinsic value of a 1911, with double stack capacity. It is also similar is size & weight to that of standard duty issue Glock/Sig.

More capacity than my G17, better trigger than anything out there and a design that is ergonomically superior to the Austrian plastic brick. All things to love in my opinion and a reason I would retire the G17 I carry if the Stacatto P were on our approved list.

I am a big fan of my Stacatto P and I agree it is a viable duty gun. That said, things are what they are not what we want them to be. The term “Glock like maintenance “is not compatible with the Stacatto. We need to be honest about what the Stacatto is and what is not. Larry Vickers “If you treat your gun like your lawnmower get a Glock” comment very much applies.

Despite the polymer grip, it has a metal slide on a metal rail chassis. It also has a precisely fitted barrel. Both of these require regular lubrication. This is no different than other metal framed duty duty guns.

Second, while you can (and I often do) Run polymer frame duty guns and ARs by simply adding lube, Doing so with a Stacatto will cause issues in the long term. The tolerances are such that running the gun dirty but wet will slowly abrade those internal services and cause accelerated wear.

[JSGlock34]

Follow up question, do you know how far it has to be depressed to release the trigger? After it was posted in the “Safeties” thread I watched that Hilton Yam video where he criticizes taping them down, and he mentioned Staccato factory spec is releasing at 50% travel. To me that seems “untuned” for a duty and self defense gun - I’m in the same camp as Hilton wanting the grip safety cleared basically any time my hand is on the gun. Curious to know if yours ended up being tuned a little more generously. Will it allow the gun to fire even with a really bad grip?


I have been running two Staccato P's for maybe over a year now both grip safeties seem to have positive activation. Each one seem to activate between the 40 to 50ish percent depressed. It very well may be due to the wide body grip that helps with these. I could tune them up a bit, but to be honest I never really had any issues on single stack 1911's. Just my observations of a sample size of two.

So using the bump as a gauge for 'percent depressed', my sample seems to mirror CDFIII's experience - it releases at about the 40% depressed mark. Not a scientific measurement by any stretch, but to my eyeball the grip safety releases the trigger before the halfway (50%) point. Seems consistent with Hilton Yam's commentary on the factory Staccato spec.

I'm not sure whether the wide grip helps or hinders; I don't think I was ever prone to grip safety problems with a single stack 1911 either. Still, I find it interesting that the EDC X9 eliminated the grip safety, and so do the Atlas guns (like the Athena and NYX) that use their Alpha grip.

[Tango]

I am a big fan of my Stacatto P and I agree it is a viable duty gun. That said, things are what they are not what we want them to be. The term “Glock like maintenance “is not compatible with the Stacatto. We need to be honest about what the Stacatto is and what is not. Larry Vickers “If you treat your gun like your lawnmower get a Glock” comment very much applies.

Despite the polymer grip, it has a metal slide on a metal rail chassis. It also has a precisely fitted barrel. Both of these require regular lubrication. This is no different than other metal framed duty duty guns.

Second, while you can (and I often do) Run polymer frame duty guns and ARs by simply adding lube, Doing so with a Stacatto will cause issues in the long term. The tolerances are such that running the gun dirty but wet will slowly abrade those internal services and cause accelerated wear.

I agree that the Stacatto P is a viable duty gun. I also agree that just "adding lube" to ANY gun isn't a good thing long term. I don't agree that a 1911 is really any different than a Beretta, Glock, Sig or HK. You need to understand the weapon, train on the weapon and clean the weapon after shooting it or a dirty duty day. All of the guns fail if you don't do that.

I am just glad that the market overall (civilian, law enforcement & military), has a very good option available in the Stacatto P. 1911 ergonomics, 1911 trigger, better capacity than most hand guns and a workhorse ability. Now if only my agency would approve it for duty carry!!!

[JSGlock34]

I had a friend make up some B8s with only the 10/X ring in black for the bullseye. Here's today's best score, 100-5X, with Norma 124gr. FMJ. I continue to be impressed with this pistol.
83894

[TCFD273]

I had a friend make up some B8s with only the 10/X ring in black for the bullseye. Here's today's best score, 100-5X, with Norma 124gr. FMJ. I continue to be impressed with this pistol.
83894

I own a Staccato P as well

For reference I shoot CO in USPSA, I’m a Glock guy for practicality with a deep love for 1911’s.

I’ve owned close to a dozen 9mm 1911’s, most of them Wilson’s, and most of the Wilsons had issues. In fairness I fixed the issues myself, most of the time it was the extractor.

I have also built 2 1911’s for myself in 45acp from the ground up. Lots of hand filing, lol. One of them is sitting at 23,118 rounds right now, with 2 ammo related malfunctions.

Im very familiar with the 1911/2011 platform.

The Staccato is easy mode for carry guns. The cost of entry is low compared to something like a Chambers 2011. The trigger isn’t the greatest compared to my customs, but leaps and bounds over any striker gun. It’s easy mode on B8’s, and it runs right along my CO competition gun an any drill. I have a couple thousand rounds through it with zero issues.….plus today I shot a supported 2.25” 3 shot group today at 50 yards…..absolutely no way I can do that with a Glock

I have 2 open guns on order, so I’ve decided to switch to Open minor from concealment with the P until my Open Guns come in.

Life is short, shoot what you like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hstanton1]

I had a friend make up some B8s with only the 10/X ring in black for the bullseye. Here's today's best score, 100-5X, with Norma 124gr. FMJ. I continue to be impressed with this pistol.
83894

I like that idea a lot. Haven’t tried it on B8s per se, but I’ve shot some B8 drills on circles that are smaller than the traditional 9 ring and have noticed that it’s easier to keep rounds in the 10 ring if that’s the perceived acceptable scoring area. Haven’t tested that at 25 yards though.

Also, your posts any my own experiences with range rentals are pushing me closer and closer to a C2. That with an optic sounds like a capable carry gun, and all reports I’ve heard (of the C2 specifically, not of legacy compact 2011s) is that they’re a bit more tolerant of looser lubrication schedules than the P.

[TCFD273]

I like that idea a lot. Haven’t tried it on B8s per se, but I’ve shot some B8 drills on circles that are smaller than the traditional 9 ring and have noticed that it’s easier to keep rounds in the 10 ring if that’s the perceived acceptable scoring area. Haven’t tested that at 25 yards though.

Also, your posts any my own experiences with range rentals are pushing me closer and closer to a C2. That with an optic sounds like a capable carry gun, and all reports I’ve heard (of the C2 specifically, not of legacy compact 2011s) is that they’re a bit more tolerant of looser lubrication schedules than the P.

Lube and 1911/2011’s

I’ve never seen the issue people talk about.

Today as an example:

Shot 300ish rounds through my Staccato (115 grain to 147’s)

Got home, field stripped it, wiped it down with M-Pro 7 and lubed it with Lucas oil. Less than 10 minutes.

Every couple thousand rounds, take them all the way down and clean it.

I do this with all 1911’s

Glocks….to quote Ken Hackathorn “you can treat them like your lawn mower”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hstanton1]

Lube and 1911/2011’s

I’ve never seen the issue people talk about.

Today as an example:

Shot 300ish rounds through my Staccato (115 grain to 147’s)

Got home, field stripped it, wiped it down with M-Pro 7 and lubed it with Lucas oil. Less than 10 minutes.

Every couple thousand rounds, take them all the way down and clean it.

I do this with all 1911’s

Glocks….to quote Ken Hackathorn “you can treat them like your lawn mower”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I’m certainly not suggesting that you shouldn’t clean and lube this new crop of staccatos. All I said was that the C2 is more tolerant of looser schedules. That’s likely because the slide is lighter and takes less energy to move.

[TOTS]

Lube and 1911/2011’s

I’ve never seen the issue people talk about.

Today as an example:

Shot 300ish rounds through my Staccato (115 grain to 147’s)

Got home, field stripped it, wiped it down with M-Pro 7 and lubed it with Lucas oil. Less than 10 minutes.

Every couple thousand rounds, take them all the way down and clean it.

I do this with all 1911’s

Glocks….to quote Ken Hackathorn “you can treat them like your lawn mower”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With all due respect to Ken Hackathorn, I treat my Dan Wesson like a lawnmower. 3500 rnds with no cleaning; two malfunctions fixed by clp.
83954

[MandoWookie]

With all due respect to Ken Hackathorn, I treat my Dan Wesson like a lawnmower. 3500 rnds with no cleaning; two malfunctions fixed by clp.
83954



Good gawd, did you run blackpowder for those 3500 rounds?

[TOTS]

Good gawd, did you run blackpowder for those 3500 rounds?
Yup; I use the Titegroup kind!! 🤣

[Evil_Ed]

Yup; I use the Titegroup kind!! 🤣

Was gonna guess Unique, but it's not sandy enough for that :D

[JSGlock34]

Crossed the 3000 round mark over the weekend.

My case of Hornady Critical Duty 135gr. +P finally arrived, and I put 60 rounds through the Staccato P. My impressions are very favorable - I found the round more pleasant to shoot than the 124 gr. +P Gold Dot I had been using, but felt it still cycled the slide with more velocity than the 147 grain loads I had been shooting. Very accurate - though I did need to adjust zero. POI was higher with the Critical Duty than the 124 grain loads. I may test a few different practice loads to try to find a good match.
84263

[JSGlock34]

The Staccato P crossed the 5000 round mark this weekend (5301 to be exact). Since my last update, the pistol has continued to run without issue. I've continued my maintenance routine of a wipe down and lube every 300-500 rounds.

I've settled on the 135 gr. +P Critical Duty load for carry and have strangely found that 115 grain practice ammunition (Federal and Norma) is a good POI match at 25 yards. Incidentally, I also found that 147 grain HST has a similar POI and is a good backup load. 124 grain consistently hits lower than the Critical Duty, so I've been phasing that out.

I also shot my first IDPA match in several years with the Staccato (from AIWB). Interestingly, half of my squad was shooting a 2011 (a Staccato C2, another P, and a XL - plus an Atlas!). No drama from any of these pistols.

[MVS]

The Staccato P crossed the 5000 round mark this weekend (5301 to be exact). Since my last update, the pistol has continued to run without issue. I've continued my maintenance routine of a wipe down and lube every 300-500 rounds.

I've settled on the 135 gr. +P Critical Duty load for carry and have strangely found that 115 grain practice ammunition (Federal and Norma) is a good POI match at 25 yards. Incidentally, I also found that 147 grain HST has a similar POI and is a good backup load. 124 grain consistently hits lower than the Critical Duty, so I've been phasing that out.

I also shot my first IDPA match in several years with the Staccato (from AIWB). Interestingly, half of my squad was shooting a 2011 (a Staccato C2, another P, and a XL - plus an Atlas!). No drama from any of these pistols.

I took my C2 out today to try some carry ammo. I don't have large quantities of any of them so I took 147HST which is what I have been carrying lately, some 124+P Gold Dot that I bought when I saw some available, and what I thought was Hornady Critical Duty 135+P but was actually .45 Critical Duty upon opening it at the range. The 147 HST hit to the same POI as my practice ammo I zeroed with, (115 Blazer) the Gold Dot, which is quite snappy, grouped well but hit 3 inches low. I will try the Hornady next time though I am not sure if it is available so I should probably stick with the HST 147.

[JSGlock34]

I took my C2 out today to try some carry ammo. I don't have large quantities of any of them so I took 147HST which is what I have been carrying lately, some 124+P Gold Dot that I bought when I saw some available, and what I thought was Hornady Critical Duty 135+P but was actually .45 Critical Duty upon opening it at the range. The 147 HST hit to the same POI as my practice ammo I zeroed with, (115 Blazer) the Gold Dot, which is quite snappy, grouped well but hit 3 inches low. I will try the Hornady next time though I am not sure if it is available so I should probably stick with the HST 147.

Yep, that about mirrors my experience. The 115 grain is a good POI match for HST 147 (and the Critical Duty). 124 grain - whether normally aspirated or the +P GDHP, groups lower. I also found the Gold Dot +P snappy; while there's something to be said for increased slide velocity with the +P ammunition, I found the 135 grain +P Critical Duty far more pleasant to shoot. I also thought the 147 grain HST had a nice impulse.

[CDFIII]

Yep, that about mirrors my experience. The 115 grain is a good POI match for HST 147 (and the Critical Duty). 124 grain - whether normally aspirated or the +P GDHP, groups lower. I also found the Gold Dot +P snappy; while there's something to be said for increased slide velocity with the +P ammunition, I found the 135 grain +P Critical Duty far more pleasant to shoot. I also thought the 147 grain HST had a nice impulse.

I agree with both of you as far as 124gr. Both my P's shoot it the same. I have been using 147 HST as a defensive load in them as well but I haven't shot the Critical Duty yet. Now I'm curios to try it.

[GJM]

I have a Staccato P worked over by Ed Cameron. Finally got around to mounting a dot. Used a Wheeler laser to get it close. These are five shots of Lawman 124 and Syntech 150 at 15 yards. The Syntech shoots slightly higher.

88010

Lawman function fine, but the Syntech 150 didn’t want to run. Seems like it would need a lighter recoil spring.

Must be some defect in me, but I shoot my Glock 19 much better. Will continue to mess with it.

88011

[pastaslinger]

The Staccato P crossed the 5000 round mark this weekend (5301 to be exact). Since my last update, the pistol has continued to run without issue. I've continued my maintenance routine of a wipe down and lube every 300-500 rounds.

I've settled on the 135 gr. +P Critical Duty load for carry and have strangely found that 115 grain practice ammunition (Federal and Norma) is a good POI match at 25 yards. Incidentally, I also found that 147 grain HST has a similar POI and is a good backup load. 124 grain consistently hits lower than the Critical Duty, so I've been phasing that out.

I also shot my first IDPA match in several years with the Staccato (from AIWB). Interestingly, half of my squad was shooting a 2011 (a Staccato C2, another P, and a XL - plus an Atlas!). No drama from any of these pistols.

I've become very interested in a staccato C2 and p dpo... I thought I was done with 2011s years ago but staccato improving the mags and seeing Kyle defoor post about his experiences on Instagram are getting my attention.

[psalms144.1]

I have a Staccato P worked over by Ed Cameron. Finally got around to mounting a dot. Used a Wheeler laser to get it close. These are five shots of Lawman 124 and Syntech 150 at 15 yards. The Syntech shoots slightly higher.

88010

Lawman function fine, but the Syntech 150 didn’t want to run. Seems like it would need a lighter recoil spring.

Must be some defect in me, but I shoot my Glock 19 much better. Will continue to mess with it.

88011Yup, you suck with that P. I'll take it off your hands to keep you from wasting training time and ammo :o

[GJM]

Yup, you suck with that P. I'll take it off your hands to keep you from wasting training time and ammo :o

I know you are kidding, but I think I realized something. The Staccato is pretty easy to shoot B8 and slower fire with. Where it is hard for me, is going fast. This may relate to the combination of a 1911 style trigger and this trigger being 4.0 pounds. My Open 2011 guns have 1.75-2.0 pound triggers. I can shoot a heavier trigger in a Glock, but lighter is easier for me with 1911/2011.

[JakeB]

Must be some defect in me, but I shoot my Glock 19 much better. Will continue to mess with it.

Interesting note, I've recently sold my P DPO and my C2. I gave them plenty of time and was competing with an Atlas at the same time. I've switched back to Glocks.

I've got Practiscore data from running USPSA classifiers back to back with the 2011s and Glocks (over a 3 month period), and I'm just plain faster and more accurate with the Glocks.

[CDFIII]

Just picked up the Griffin Micro Carry Comp to try on my threaded barrel P. They state a 20% recoil reduction from it… We will see? Coolest thing about it is that it doesn’t need indexing, Rocksett or shims. If it sucks as a compensator it’s a neat looking thread protector that is fairly inexpensive. GJM is that’s 2020 P? If so it should have a lighter recoil spring included if purchased new.
88022

[M2CattleCo]

Interesting note, I've recently sold my P DPO and my C2. I gave them plenty of time and was competing with an Atlas at the same time. I've switched back to Glocks.

I've got Practiscore data from running USPSA classifiers back to back with the 2011s and Glocks (over a 3 month period), and I'm just plain faster and more accurate with the Glocks.

It’s the circle of life. Everyone usually rides a CZ for a season or on their way back to Glock from 2011.

[JSGlock34]

Crossed the 7,000 round mark with the Staccato P DPO today. Since my last update, I have experienced a second malfunction with the pistol - a Failure to Return to Battery with Geco 115 grain FMJ. Even before the malfunction, I had noted that this ammunition, which had a JAG head stamp on the casing, was dirty and snappy, and was quite different from my previous positive experiences with Geco ammunition. This ammunition was purchased through AmmoShop, and was subsequently recalled by the manufacturer; as such I have a hard time holding it against the pistol, but note it here for the record.

Otherwise the pistol has proven reliable across a wide range of practice ammunition, to include AE 115/124/147 grain, Syntech 150 grain, and Blazer Brass 115 grain. Wiping the pistol down and reapplying some Lucas gun oil ever few hundred rounds is all it seems to need to keep running.

[JSGlock34]

8625 rounds now through the gun. During today's range trip, I observed the pistol was shooting progressively higher. Checked zero at 25 yards and discovered I was shooting 6"+ high (off the paper). Inspected the red dot plate at home and could see that it had begun to raise (light was visible between the slide and the plate and I could push the plate down). I removed the optic and discovered one of the screws holding the adapter plate to the slide had sheared off. Need to order some more screws from Dawson...

92942

[guymontag]

Interesting note, I've recently sold my P DPO and my C2. I gave them plenty of time and was competing with an Atlas at the same time. I've switched back to Glocks.

I've got Practiscore data from running USPSA classifiers back to back with the 2011s and Glocks (over a 3 month period), and I'm just plain faster and more accurate with the Glocks.

Any thoughts as to why?

[JSGlock34]

Perhaps it is time to update the title of the thread; this morning the Staccato P crossed 10,000 rounds. It has remained quite reliable, with only the two prior documented stoppages in the books, so the MRBS is better than 5000. Even then, I think it is debatable whether either malfunction should be held against the pistol. The first malfunction was shooter induced within the first 500 rounds, and after a minor adjustment in grip, has never repeated. The second malfunction was with suspect ammunition that was subsequently recalled by the manufacturer.

96034

In any case, this Staccato P isn't just a reliable 2011. It's one of the most reliable pistols I've ever owned.

Interestingly, neither malfunction was magazine related. I think Staccato has a winning formula with the GEN3 magazine, and it should be the yardstick by which the increasing number of 2011 magazine manufacturers are measured. Yes, the magazines are expensive, but they work. I may try the Checkmate magazines, considering they are reputedly the OEM for Staccato, performance should be identical but perhaps at a slightly lower price point.

96035

Throughout this period I've continued my regular maintenance pattern - the gun gets wiped down and lubed with Lucas Gun Oil every 2-3 range trips - usually somewhere between 350-500 rounds. I haven't replaced any springs to this point, but a new recoil spring will go into the pistol the next time I break it down.

Still, I'm not entirely satisfied with Staccato's optics mount. Staccato has had a surprising number of rolling changes to the mounting system and plates, suggesting that they are not completely satisfied either. I was surprised when a screw holding the RMR plate to the slide sheared, causing the optic to loosen. I consider myself fortunate that I was able to remove the remaining screw post. Now Staccato is recommending red loctite for optics mounting purposes, and I'm reluctant to go down this path. I'm concerned that had I used red loctite and the screw sheared in this manner, I would be stuck with a screw post buried in the slide held with red loctite.

I briefly flirted with the Deltapoint Pro to eliminate the interface plate. I really wanted to like the DPP - the glass was clearer and larger than the RMR, the dot was precise, and Staccato had found a way to integrate their back-up rear sight into the optic mount to provide a third point to secure the optic into the slide. But the short battery life made me lose confidence in the DPP and I decided to return to the RMR. I'll be among the first in line if Leupold ever offers a DPP that can compete with Aimpoint or Trijicon for battery life. I do want to acknowledge that the pistol had over 8,000 documented rounds before the screw failed.

I'm definitely a fan of Staccato and the 2011 design. There's room in the safe for another Staccato - considering how much I enjoy my 'Roland Special' Glock, I find myself drawn to the XC and trying a compensated 2011. On the other hand, the Staccato P isn't a small pistol, and while it conceals well in the Tenicor Malus Sol, there are times when I would have liked something smaller and lighter. So a C2 may well be in my future (though Staccato reportedly has a new compact model releasing next week)...

[JCN]

E6000 for plates to take stress off screws.

[CleverNickname]

Perhaps it is time to update the title of the thread; this morning the Staccato P crossed 10,000 rounds.
Posts like this are not helping tamp down my recurring desire for a Staccato. :mad:

[GearFondler]

Posts like this are not helping tamp down my recurring desire for a Staccato. :mad:And I'm one of those nerds just wishing Dan Wesson would release the DWX so I can read how it stacks up.

[texag]

I got a P DPO with a DLC threaded barrel this week and took it for it's initial range trip yesterday. 50rds of winchester 147gr bonded ranger T, 50 of aguila 124gr and 150 of blazer 147gr. Had one ftf on first 5 of the blazer, but I'm not sure if it was me. I was shooting strong hand only and the ammo felt like stepping from 9mm to 40 after the aguila, WAY more snap to it. More than even my carry ammo. Sights were off to the left, I couldn't get them to budge at the range so just dealt with it and enjoyed the easiest shooting pistol I've touched since I got to run a mag through an SVI 2011 limited gun with a sight tracker.

I have not been shooting much at all lately, like maybe 2 range trips with a handgun in the past 2 years, and this gun makes me feel like I know how to shoot again. I was actually picking the front sight up coming down again in recoil and was able to trigger slap in the a zone with ease. I ran a mage through my 365XL with a holosun that I use as a carry gun, and was shocked how easily I tracked the dot through recoil after having to use irons on the 2011.

Can't wait for the RMR and plate I ordered to show up. I wasn't planning on even attempting to CC this, but winter in Denver allows for a lot of cover garments....

[texag]

Hit 810 rounds through my P DPO yesterday. I have an RMR (kinda wish I'd gone SRO) and X300UB on it now. I think I've had 4 total fail to feeds on the last round with one 17 rd mag, it's been sent back to staccato with a new mag (15rd, thanks Colorado) coming back to me on their dime. 0 malfunctions with the other mags with a mix of 147gr Ranger T, 124gr aguila, 147 gr flat point blazer, and a mix of some 115gr fmj stuff others have shot through it.

Shooting it is a breeze, 15yd slowfire will yield groups in the 2.5-3" range when shooting in a normal stance. 10 yds and in is an exercise in trying to get every round through the same hole.

I've started carrying this without the light in a JMCK George with a reload in a mastermind tactics elastic pouch, it is surprisingly comfortable and conceals well on my 5'11" 160lb frame when wearing a flannel. I can still get away with it with the magwell left on. An undershirt tucked into my jeans is mandatory with the tac grip texture, it'll irritate bare skin after a few hours.

[mcgivro]

It’s the circle of life. Everyone usually rides a CZ for a season or on their way back to Glock from 2011.

I have never even imagined using my G34 over any of my CZ. That’d be like going from a Mercedes to a Honda.

[BK14]

I have never even imagined using my G34 over any of my CZ. That’d be like going from a Mercedes to a Honda.

Yup. And eventually you get tired of expensive dealer costs. And bam. You’re rocking a Civic.

[JCS]

Perhaps it is time to update the title of the thread; this morning the Staccato P crossed 10,000 rounds. It has remained quite reliable, with only the two prior documented stoppages in the books, so the MRBS is better than 5000. Even then, I think it is debatable whether either malfunction should be held against the pistol. The first malfunction was shooter induced within the first 500 rounds, and after a minor adjustment in grip, has never repeated. The second malfunction was with suspect ammunition that was subsequently recalled by the manufacturer.

96034

In any case, this Staccato P isn't just a reliable 2011. It's one of the most reliable pistols I've ever owned.

Interestingly, neither malfunction was magazine related. I think Staccato has a winning formula with the GEN3 magazine, and it should be the yardstick by which the increasing number of 2011 magazine manufacturers are measured. Yes, the magazines are expensive, but they work. I may try the Checkmate magazines, considering they are reputedly the OEM for Staccato, performance should be identical but perhaps at a slightly lower price point.

96035

Throughout this period I've continued my regular maintenance pattern - the gun gets wiped down and lubed with Lucas Gun Oil every 2-3 range trips - usually somewhere between 350-500 rounds. I haven't replaced any springs to this point, but a new recoil spring will go into the pistol the next time I break it down.

Still, I'm not entirely satisfied with Staccato's optics mount. Staccato has had a surprising number of rolling changes to the mounting system and plates, suggesting that they are not completely satisfied either. I was surprised when a screw holding the RMR plate to the slide sheared, causing the optic to loosen. I consider myself fortunate that I was able to remove the remaining screw post. Now Staccato is recommending red loctite for optics mounting purposes, and I'm reluctant to go down this path. I'm concerned that had I used red loctite and the screw sheared in this manner, I would be stuck with a screw post buried in the slide held with red loctite.

I briefly flirted with the Deltapoint Pro to eliminate the interface plate. I really wanted to like the DPP - the glass was clearer and larger than the RMR, the dot was precise, and Staccato had found a way to integrate their back-up rear sight into the optic mount to provide a third point to secure the optic into the slide. But the short battery life made me lose confidence in the DPP and I decided to return to the RMR. I'll be among the first in line if Leupold ever offers a DPP that can compete with Aimpoint or Trijicon for battery life. I do want to acknowledge that the pistol had over 8,000 documented rounds before the screw failed.

I'm definitely a fan of Staccato and the 2011 design. There's room in the safe for another Staccato - considering how much I enjoy my 'Roland Special' Glock, I find myself drawn to the XC and trying a compensated 2011. On the other hand, the Staccato P isn't a small pistol, and while it conceals well in the Tenicor Malus Sol, there are times when I would have liked something smaller and lighter. So a C2 may well be in my future (though Staccato reportedly has a new compact model releasing next week)...

Have you used any mags other than Staccato mags in it?

[secondstoryguy]

I have been nothing but impressed with my P Duo. I have thousands and thousands of rounds through mine, have been carrying everyday as my primary duty gun (open carry duty holster) and have shot every kind of ammo imaginable though it with no issues (to include 90-95gr frangible in the shoothouse). I have not babied it only oiling it every so often and it just keeps chugging along. The thing is also extremely accurate and so finely machined that I recently swapped the RMR for an ACRO and the sights were almost exactly on with the new sight/mount.

I have also visited the factory on two occasions. The guys that work their are all "gun" guys and although most of them perform one manufacturing task, all of them know their way around the entire 1911 platform. They were able to answer every obscure question I had reguarding the 1911 platform (I have run and handbuilt many 1911s over the last 30 years).

We have 4 or 5 Stacattos at our agency now that have been employed in a duty capacity and all have been flawless. Do I miss my Glocks/HKs? Sure, a little, but when it comes to how accurate and easy it is to shoot the 1911 design of the Stacatto its a no brainer (well that and I like manual safeties on people managing guns).

I like my P so much that I just took delivery of a C2 Duo...I hope that it will not disspoint....

[JSGlock34]

Have you used any mags other than Staccato mags in it?

No, I have only used Staccato OEM magazines (both 17 and 20 rounders). I've been thinking about trying the Checkmate magazines, as they should be the same exact thing. But I'm in no rush to do so, having plenty of proven Staccato magazines, and honestly the $5 price difference isn't any motivation to experiment.

I'm more curious to see if the new CS magazine design spreads to the other Staccato platforms, and I've taken a pause on buying a new Staccato to see what the future holds. I understand the new design eliminates the spacer used in 9mm 2011 magazines, allowing a smaller overall footprint, which permits a reduced grip module size. Of course, that's at the cost of legacy magazine compatibility, but that's the cost of progress. I'm somewhat surprised to see that the CS retained the grip safety though, considering Atlas and Wilson Combat (with their EDC X9) eliminated it.

[GJM]

Since I am shooting a 2011 Open gun in competition, I am trying hard to warm up to my Staccato P. Shooting it earlier today, I started running into stoppages like this, shooting 124 Lawman. Seems more a SRO problem than a Staccato problem. Should I switch to a Holosun?

98090

[MVS]

Since I am shooting a 2011 Open gun in competition, I am trying hard to warm up to my Staccato P. Shooting it earlier today, I started running into stoppages like this, shooting 124 Lawman. Seems more a SRO problem than a Staccato problem. Should I switch to a Holosun?

98090

Its one of those things. A lot of people with SRO's on them that claim it isn't a problem, but quite a few have this exact issue. Personally though I like SRO's, I won't put one on my Staccato or any other gun where it would hang over into the ejection area.

[BK14]

Since I am shooting a 2011 Open gun in competition, I am trying hard to warm up to my Staccato P. Shooting it earlier today, I started running into stoppages like this, shooting 124 Lawman. Seems more a SRO problem than a Staccato problem. Should I switch to a Holosun?

98090

Please post more like this. It’ll help save me money.

[JCS]

Are there issues with over insertion using non staccato mags? I can’t find the 20 round in stock anywhere but atlas and mbx have mags for it.

[MVS]

Are there issues with over insertion using non staccato mags? I can’t find the 20 round in stock anywhere but atlas and mbx have mags for it.

Just like with any 1911 style design problems can arise from over insertion of magazines. I am running 10-8 base pads on all of mine in my C2 to prevent that. It isn't a brand specific problem but the length.

[JCS]

Just like with any 1911 style design problems can arise from over insertion of magazines. I am running 10-8 base pads on all of mine in my C2 to prevent that. It isn't a brand specific problem but the length.

Is the issue for slide lock reloads only or all reloads?

This is my first 1911 style gun and I'm trying to learn about 'em. Looking to run some 140 and 170mm mags in it.

[MVS]

Is the issue for slide lock reloads only or all reloads?

This is my first 1911 style gun and I'm trying to learn about 'em. Looking to run some 140 and 170mm mags in it.

Slide lock. While you are at it, don't drop your slide on an empty chamber.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR66ET6W3vU

[JSGlock34]

Since I am shooting a 2011 Open gun in competition, I am trying hard to warm up to my Staccato P. Shooting it earlier today, I started running into stoppages like this, shooting 124 Lawman. Seems more a SRO problem than a Staccato problem. Should I switch to a Holosun?

98090

I'm going to say SRO problem. Interestingly, if you Google "Trijicon SRO jam" for images, the first hit is a pic you posted of a P320 with the same malfunction.


He sent me this, showing it.

38904

[GJM]

Changed out the SRO for a 407CO, and all is running well.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Have a spare SRO that *was* heading to Infinity next week for mounting on a commander sized double stack but you've got me considering sending a Holo 507C-GR hmmm .......

[Vista461]

Posts like this are not helping tamp down my recurring desire for a Staccato. :mad:

Same. I actually found a local store with one I could hold, and now I want one even more. I was half hoping the grip would be too big for my hands. Lol.

[JCN]

Since I am shooting a 2011 Open gun in competition, I am trying hard to warm up to my Staccato P. Shooting it earlier today, I started running into stoppages like this, shooting 124 Lawman. Seems more a SRO problem than a Staccato problem. Should I switch to a Holosun?


Small dollop of silicone caulk under the SRO cover lip will prevent that.

[JCS]

Only 250 rounds in but so far no issues with the SRO and Staccato P but we will see how that holds up. Seems the issue could be resolved if someone made a plate with either no backup sights or the sights in front of the optic.

Also I'm going to be testing a variety of mags. I expect the Staccato ones to work great. I have a 140mm and 170mm MBX I'm testing as well. I plan on trying some Atlas mags and the Prodigy mags also. The feed lips are much different on Staccato compared to MBX.
98945

[HCM]

Only 250 rounds in but so far no issues with the SRO and Staccato P but we will see how that holds up. Seems the issue could be resolved if someone made a plate with either no backup sights or the sights in front of the optic.

Also I'm going to be testing a variety of mags. I expect the Staccato ones to work great. I have a 140mm and 170mm MBX I'm testing as well. I plan on trying some Atlas mags and the Prodigy mags also. The feed lips are much different on Staccato compared to MBX.
98945

One of our local up and coming instructors, Hunter Freeland, runs Stacattos with SROs as training/ teaching guns. He advised using the taller factory DUO plate helps prevent this on P models and that the issue is common on C2 models until the extractor get broken in.

There was mention earlier about the case trapping issue with SRO on 320s. I’ve got about 5k rounds on my AXG PRO with SRO and have not experienced this issue, however, my SRO is mounted on a Springer Precision plate rather than direct mounted, maybe sitting higher on the plate is enough to prevent the issue?

[bofe954]

Someone should make an SRO specific plate with a lip or something.

[Tokarev]

Check Mate mags available:

https://store.eaacorp.com/shop/product/111002-9mm-17rd-witness-2311-magazine-27130?category=1#attr=29027,29026,29031,29029,2902 8

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[JCS]

One of our local up and coming instructors, Hunter Freeland, runs Stacattos with SROs as training/ teaching guns. He advised using the taller factory DUO plate helps prevent this on P models and that the issue is common on C2 models until the extractor get broken in.

There was mention earlier about the case trapping issue with SRO on 320s. I’ve got about 5k rounds on my AXG PRO with SRO and have not experienced this issue, however, my SRO is mounted on a Springer Precision plate rather than direct mounted, maybe sitting higher on the plate is enough to prevent the issue?

I haven't had any issues with SRO on my 320 after 10k rounds. But I also have a springer plate that brings the dot back.

One alternative I thought of if people have an issue with the SRO and really want to run it. Buy one of these for $25 and cut out the front of it. https://stonebridgegunworks.com/sbgw-target-focus-trainer.html

It would give enough of a lip at the bottom to prevent the case from sticking. If you cut it out it wouldn't occlude the front of the optic either.

[HCM]

Check Mate mags available:

https://store.eaacorp.com/shop/product/111002-9mm-17rd-witness-2311-magazine-27130?category=1#attr=29027,29026,29031,29029,2902 8

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Cheaper than Brownells…

[JSGlock34]

My Staccato P now has 11,349 rounds through it. Still only the two prior documented stoppages during over that usage, so nothing new to report there. However, I've again had the optical plate loosen and begin to rise underneath the optic. Again the RMR remains secure to the mounting plate, but the plate to slide screws had lost all tension and had begun to rotate.

At this point I've decided to replace the Dawson Precision DPO plate with a Forward Controls Design plate and rear sight. I've had excellent experience with FCD plates on my Glock MOS pistols, so I'm hopeful it will perform better. Still, I'll note that my first impressions of the FCD plate are mixed. The FCD plate has a large lightening cut to reduce weight; unlike FCD's Glock plates this necessitates use of a RMR sealer plate for waterproofing. Apparently the weight reduction is necessary because the FCD plate is 4140 steel as opposed to the Dawson's aluminum. The FCD plate also seems to lack the 'feet' at the front of the plate that the Dawson plate has. However, the FCD plate has built in bosses to secure the RMR, and interestingly does away with the 'O'-rings on the Dawson plate. I'm skeptical of the O-rings - they seem to add upward pressure on the plate and I think that contributes to the loosening of the slide to plate screws. I find the Dawson plate wants to stick up when the O-rings are installed; the FCD plate lies flat.

We'll see how it performs. I'll re-zero the pistol tomorrow and periodically report on the performance of the FCD plate as I update this thread.

[MVS]

My Staccato P now has 11,349 rounds through it. Still only the two prior documented stoppages during over that usage, so nothing new to report there. However, I've again had the optical plate loosen and begin to rise underneath the optic. Again the RMR remains secure to the mounting plate, but the plate to slide screws had lost all tension and had begun to rotate.

At this point I've decided to replace the Dawson Precision DPO plate with a Forward Controls Design plate and rear sight. I've had excellent experience with FCD plates on my Glock MOS pistols, so I'm hopeful it will perform better. Still, I'll note that my first impressions of the FCD plate are mixed. The FCD plate has a large lightening cut to reduce weight; unlike FCD's Glock plates this necessitates use of a RMR sealer plate for waterproofing. Apparently the weight reduction is necessary because the FCD plate is 4140 steel as opposed to the Dawson's aluminum. The FCD plate also seems to lack the 'feet' at the front of the plate that the Dawson plate has. However, the FCD plate has built in bosses to secure the RMR, and interestingly does away with the 'O'-rings on the Dawson plate. I'm skeptical of the O-rings - they seem to add upward pressure on the plate and I think that contributes to the loosening of the slide to plate screws. I find the Dawson plate wants to stick up when the O-rings are installed; the FCD plate lies flat.

We'll see how it performs. I'll re-zero the pistol tomorrow and periodically report on the performance of the FCD plate as I update this thread.

Interesting. I only have a little less than half that number of rounds through my C2 but have had not problems with the Optic or plate (C&H).

[JSGlock34]

Interesting. I only have a little less than half that number of rounds through my C2 but have had not problems with the Optic or plate (C&H).

To be fair, I had over 8,000 rounds with the Dawson plate before I had a plate to slide screw shear (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51341-2000-rounds-with-the-Staccato-P-DPO&p=1383369&viewfull=1#post1383369). Still, I suspect the design of the Dawson plate is a contributing factor, and I've had good experience with FCD.

[JCS]

My Staccato P now has 11,349 rounds through it. Still only the two prior documented stoppages during over that usage, so nothing new to report there. However, I've again had the optical plate loosen and begin to rise underneath the optic. Again the RMR remains secure to the mounting plate, but the plate to slide screws had lost all tension and had begun to rotate.

At this point I've decided to replace the Dawson Precision DPO plate with a Forward Controls Design plate and rear sight. I've had excellent experience with FCD plates on my Glock MOS pistols, so I'm hopeful it will perform better. Still, I'll note that my first impressions of the FCD plate are mixed. The FCD plate has a large lightening cut to reduce weight; unlike FCD's Glock plates this necessitates use of a RMR sealer plate for waterproofing. Apparently the weight reduction is necessary because the FCD plate is 4140 steel as opposed to the Dawson's aluminum. The FCD plate also seems to lack the 'feet' at the front of the plate that the Dawson plate has. However, the FCD plate has built in bosses to secure the RMR, and interestingly does away with the 'O'-rings on the Dawson plate. I'm skeptical of the O-rings - they seem to add upward pressure on the plate and I think that contributes to the loosening of the slide to plate screws. I find the Dawson plate wants to stick up when the O-rings are installed; the FCD plate lies flat.

We'll see how it performs. I'll re-zero the pistol tomorrow and periodically report on the performance of the FCD plate as I update this thread.


To be fair, I had over 8,000 rounds with the Dawson plate before I had a plate to slide screw shear (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51341-2000-rounds-with-the-Staccato-P-DPO&p=1383369&viewfull=1#post1383369). Still, I suspect the design of the Dawson plate is a contributing factor, and I've had good experience with FCD.

How often are you cleaning your Staccato?

I initially had issues with the factory plate loosening. But I adjusted it and no issues in the past 2k rounds. I ordered a set of replacement screws from Dawson and they have changed to plate to slide screws it seems. The head is different on them.

[JSGlock34]

How often are you cleaning your Staccato?

I initially had issues with the factory plate loosening. But I adjusted it and no issues in the past 2k rounds. I ordered a set of replacement screws from Dawson and they have changed to plate to slide screws it seems. The head is different on them.

It depends - generally I'm wiping down and reapplying lube every 500 rounds, more or less. This isn't necessarily a complete cleaning.

Staccato has gone through several revisions of the mounting system between DUO, and DPO, and the predecessor HOST system. Even within the most current Dawson system, there are several versions of the adapter plate.

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-5t3ceeio/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6192/10008/Adapter-plate-3__02952.1634763342.1280.1280_1__68637.1649183502. png?c=2

[LittleLebowski]

Are the G2 Staccatos that much more desirable than a G1?

[JSGlock34]

Are the G2 Staccatos that much more desirable than a G1?

Magazine or pistol generation?

For the magazines, my only experience is with the G3; based on my personal experience (approaching 13K rounds without a magazine attributable malfunction), I’m confident that the G3 magazine has been sorted out and represents the yardstick.

I imagine this may extend to the Checkmate branded magazines, since they all come from the same place, but without personal experience I’m hesitant to endorse them, and I’ve seen no cost savings that would motivate me to buy anything but the Staccato magazines. Similarly, I see no performance benefit to the costly Atlas or MBX magazines. I believe Triarc sells STI G2 magazines under their brand name, but why bother?

As for the guns, I think Staccato has introduced so many rolling changes that it is hard to assess what the ‘Generations’ are. That said, there are a few major changes that are easily identified. The more recent guns have the ‘DPO’ vice DUO or even older HOST optic mounting system. Older P models are 4.15” guns vice the newer 4.4”, and there were some revisions to the grip module. Some people liked the older tree bark grip texture better. I suspect the introduction of the CS portends that the next generation will be built around the smaller CS style magazine.

[HCM]

Magazine or pistol generation?

For the magazines, my only experience is with the G3; based on my personal experience (approaching 13K rounds without a magazine attributable malfunction), I’m confident that the G3 magazine has been sorted out and represents the yardstick.

I imagine this may extend to the Checkmate branded magazines, since they all come from the same place, but without personal experience I’m hesitant to endorse them, and I’ve seen no cost savings that would motivate me to buy anything but the Staccato magazines. Similarly, I see no performance benefit to the costly Atlas or MBX magazines. I believe Triarc sells STI G2 magazines under their brand name, but why bother?

As for the guns, I think Staccato has introduced so many rolling changes that it is hard to assess what the ‘Generations’ are. That said, there are a few major changes that are easily identified. The more recent guns have the ‘DPO’ vice DUO or even older HOST optic mounting system. Older P models are 4.15” guns vice the newer 4.4”, and there were some revisions to the grip module. Some people liked the older tree bark grip texture better. I suspect the introduction of the CS portends that the next generation will be built around the smaller CS style magazine.

Re: Mags.

My understanding is the "Checkmate" branded mags are equivalent to the Stacatto gen 2 mags. I don't think it's a coincidence they appeared soon after Stacatto moved on to gen 3 mags.

You are correct about the rolling changes and no distinct generations of guns after the move to 4.4'. Some of the rolling changes have involved internal parts such as the ejector which have been tweaked / improved. The latest generation of grip module has some subtle contour changes vs the "chain link" texture which replaced the treebark.

[LittleLebowski]

Mag generations only, copy.

Is the C2 a decent balance for carry and shooting or go with the P? I’ve no problems concealing G17s.

[rathos]

I actually swapped my P to a VIP/C2 grip. For some reason that extra inch makes the handle stick out a bit more. For shooting I honestly don't notice a difference between the two. The only reason I even bought a c2 was to use the threat cadre compensator which I took off after a few hundred rounds. The regular P version is pretty much the same size as a Glock 17, so I think you would like that one better.

[HCM]

Mag generations only, copy.

Is the C2 a decent balance for carry and shooting or go with the P? I’ve no problems concealing G17s.

The C2 a great G19 analog if your hands allow you to get a full grip on the C2 length grip. Kyle DeFoor was running C2s in that manner prior to the introduction of the new CS. The CS is cool but the C2 is a better “dual role” option.

The biggest difference for carry is probably going to be the 4 oz difference between the aluminum frame C2 and the steel frame of the standard P. Though there have been limited runs of aluminum frame P’s.

You can also fit a P grip onto a C2. This is popular for those who want carry comp set ups.

[Cory]

The C2 a great G19 analog if your hands allow you to get a full grip on the C2 length grip. Kyle DeFoor was running C2s in that manner prior to the introduction of the new CS. The CS is cool but the C2 is a better “dual role” option.

The biggest difference for carry is probably going to be the 4 oz difference between the aluminum frame C2 and the steel frame of the standard P. Though there have been limited runs of aluminum frame P’s.

You can also fit a P grip onto a C2. This is popular for those who want carry comp set ups.

Under the "personalize it" button on Staccato it gives option for either aluminum or steel frame for the P. I wish I had the funds for a P with RDS. Maybe eventually.

[texag]

Hit 2k rounds through my staccato P (DLC threaded barrel and whatever they call the rougher texture). I had 3 or 4 malfunctions in the first 200, all on the last round of the same magazine(17rd gen3). Staccato replaced it at no cost to me, zero issues since.

[LittleLebowski]

I need optics recommendations for a C2 optics ready. Stat!

[kilo sierra]

I'm using a RMRcc on a Dawson plate.
Although I am sub 1k round count, it's been knocked around a bit and holds zero.
I just set the brightness level to where it begins to bloom, go down one and leave it there. So far so good.

Recently I test drove a Holosun with Green reticles. It was the "SCS", no battery, and the reticle really popped for me.

I'm happy with the RMRcc, but if starting out again I'd give the SCS a nod.

[psalms144.1]

I need optics recommendations for a C2 optics ready. Stat!I'd look at the EPS or EPSc, myself, for a "carry" sized Stac.

[msstate56]

I need optics recommendations for a C2 optics ready. Stat!

I run a 509T v2 on mine, since its a duty gun and not always carried concealed. The EPS will work just as well for a carry gun.

[Evil_Ed]

Is there a "best" vendor for Staccato P mags? Or is everyone locked into MAP and no one sells under the (current) $69.99 price per mag?

Edit - found a seller on Gunbroker selling NIW Staccato Gen 3 mags, 126mm, for $56 (give or take) each...best price I've seen. I'll find out next week how badly I got ripped off :D

[Tokarev]

Is there a "best" vendor for Staccato P mags? Or is everyone locked into MAP and no one sells under the (current) $69.99 price per mag?

Edit - found a seller on Gunbroker selling NIW Staccato Gen 3 mags, 126mm, for $56 (give or take) each...best price I've seen. I'll find out next week how badly I got ripped off :DAlbinus Enterprises? I've bought from them without issue.





Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Evil_Ed]

Yup, those would be the ones, the mags should be here...today, actually, I think.

[JCS]

Anyone found an alternative plate for the SRO that works better than the Dawson?

I'm having similar issues to the OP with the plate coming loose. Optic stays rock solid but mine has now come loose twice when torquing it mfgr specs.

The only one I can find on google is the ch precision.

[SoCalDep]

Anyone found an alternative plate for the SRO that works better than the Dawson?

I'm having similar issues to the OP with the plate coming loose. Optic stays rock solid but mine has now come loose twice when torquing it mfgr specs.

The only one I can find on google is the ch precision.

The Dawson plate is my favorite plate for Staccatos, but I’ll degrease everything, put a very small bit of red Loctite on the plate-slide screws ONLY and torque, then blue Loctite 248 for optic screws, and wait 24hrs or more prior to any shooting. The four I have plus many others I’ve mounted this way seem to do well.

[theJanitor]

Not the same application, but I've put red loctite between my trijicon 1911 plate and my slide, and it's been great for years

[Exiledviking]

Anyone found an alternative plate for the SRO that works better than the Dawson?

I'm having similar issues to the OP with the plate coming loose. Optic stays rock solid but mine has now come loose twice when torquing it mfgr specs.

The only one I can find on google is the ch precision.Unfortunately, no experience with it. But, Forward Controls is known for superior products and solutions. https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/opf-s-rmr.html

I guess I've been fortunate, knock on wood, in that I have not had any of my slide mounted MRDS come loose. I do use a liberal amount of blue Loctite (out of the large chapstick type container) AND E6000.
As a matter of fact, one of the first optics I mounted gave me one heck of a fight last month when I decided to move it to another pistol. Took me well over an hour to get it and the adapter plate off the slide. That MRDS would NOT have come loose by itself. I learned a lesson there; you only need a small amount of E6000. Ha ha.

[JSGlock34]

I'm a big fan of the Forward Controls Design plates for the Glock MOS, which I think are a huge improvement over the OEM design. Unfortunately, I don't think FCD's Staccato plate offers any material advantages over the latest Staccato/Dawson OEM plate. It's fine, but I don't think it is measurably better.

I'm currently running a Staccato OEM plate that I've also secured with E6000. So far, so good.

[Exiledviking]

I'm a big fan of the Forward Controls Design plates for the Glock MOS, which I think are a huge improvement over the OEM design. Unfortunately, I don't think FCD's Staccato plate offers any material advantages over the latest Staccato/Dawson OEM plate. It's fine, but I don't think it is measurably better.

I'm currently running a Staccato OEM plate that I've also secured with E6000. So far, so good.

Is that Staccato/Dawson plate version the one with the small rubber o-rings? IIRC, I have read that people had some problems with those specific plates and they suspected that the flex of the o-rings was causing the plate to come loose.

[JSGlock34]

Is that Staccato/Dawson plate version the one with the small rubber o-rings? IIRC, I have read that people had some problems with those specific plates and they suspected that the flex of the o-rings was causing the plate to come loose.

I'm one of those people - I don't like the O-rings, but hadn't seen that others had commented on it.

That said, when I mounted the Staccato/Dawson plate with E6000, I left the O-rings out.

[JCS]

There can't be more than a couple threads worth of engagement from plate to slide. The screws are so short.

I used e6000 this time so hopefully it helps.

[Exiledviking]

There can't be more than a couple threads worth of engagement from plate to slide. The screws are so short.

I used e6000 this time so hopefully it helps.I don't recall the Staccato plate-to-slide screws being that short. IIRC, there is a decent amount of threads in the slide for the screws so the threads should allow at least 4 turns.

[JSGlock34]

Crossed 14,000 rounds today. One more malfunction - a FTRB. I knew it was coming - could feel the slide velocity slowing dramatically, followed by that 'Ker-chunk' cycling. A rap on the back of the slide and it kept going. So that's three malfunctions in 14,000 rounds.

My assessment is that if the gun is lubed it will run.

When I field stripped the pistol it was quite dry.

Also somewhere in the last thousand rounds the fiber optic front sight rod disappeared. Installed a new Dawson rod.

No issues with the optics mounting since using E6000.

This is easily my favorite pistol.

[JSGlock34]

Crossed the 15,000 round mark today (15,186 to be exact). A little over half (8,140 rounds) of the ammunition through the gun was Federal AE 147 grain. Second place was American Eagle 115 grain (1,924 rounds) followed by a case of Norma 124 grain (1,000 rounds). 500 rounds were defensive ammunition.

Four malfunctions total to date works out to 3796.5 MRBS, and as I've noted during this thread, I wouldn't count all four against the gun (at least one being attributable to the operator, and another to ammunition). In any case, I'm very pleased with the performance. Keep the gun lubed - I wipe the gun down and reapply lube every 500-600 rounds.

I'm still not satisfied with the optics plate, but the E6000 has seemingly solved the problem (no issues since applied over 2,500 rounds ago).

Today I detail stripped and cleaned the slide, cleaned the extractor channel, and replaced the firing pin spring and recoil spring. The X300U also received new Surefire branded CR123 batteries.

[Bucky]

Double post.

[Bucky]

Crossed the 15,000 round mark today (15,186 to be exact). A little over half (8,140 rounds) of the ammunition through the gun was Federal AE 147 grain. Second place was American Eagle 115 grain (1,924 rounds) followed by a case of Norma 124 grain (1,000 rounds). 500 rounds were defensive ammunition.

Four malfunctions total to date works out to 3796.5 MRBS, and as I've noted during this thread, I wouldn't count all four against the gun (at least one being attributable to the operator, and another to ammunition). In any case, I'm very pleased with the performance. Keep the gun lubed - I wipe the gun down and reapply lube every 500-600 rounds.

I'm still not satisfied with the optics plate, but the E6000 has seemingly solved the problem (no issues since applied over 2,500 rounds ago).

Today I detail stripped and cleaned the slide, cleaned the extractor channel, and replaced the firing pin spring and recoil spring. The X300U also received new Surefire branded CR123 batteries.

How many malfunctions were with the AE 115s? That stuff is pretty anemic, especially for a 2011.

[rayrevolver]

I'm still not satisfied with the optics plate, but the E6000 has seemingly solved the problem (no issues since applied over 2,500 rounds ago).


From the cheap seats, I hate that all the new plate systems are foregoing the GIANT DPO bolt at the rear.

I bought a used CHPWS Acro plate a while back and it only came with 1 bolt hole at the rear. This generation of CHPWS plate had the 2 tabs up front, which have also disappeared. When I had my STI milled, I asked the guy if he could cut my plate for the 2 additional bolts.

So now my plate has 3 bolts. What I like about it is that I can see my witness mark on the big bolt while the Acro is installed. For all I know, the 2 smaller bolts could be loose. Yeah, using E6000 as well. My round count is low ~1200 or so.

Here is pic from the shop who milled the pistol and modified my plate:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52343272549_309e1d9d48_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/151953216@N05/AtPEp2Z4M7)

PS - This plate is from when CHPWS and 10-8 were a thing, that built-in rear is a 10-8 design, another bonus.

[JSGlock34]

How many malfunctions were with the AE 115s? That stuff is pretty anemic, especially for a 2011.

3/4 were with the AE147, with the other attributed to the batch of Geco ammunition that was subsequently recalled.

I don’t disagree that the 124 grain loads imparted more ‘oomph’ to the cycling. I have a preference for 147 grain defensive loads (G2 and HST) and being somewhat OCD about my zero, I use 147 AE as a ballistic match. I actually liked the 135 grain +P Hornady Critical Duty, which I found very accurate, but I just couldn’t find a good ballistic corollary for practice. I hate having a great variety of different 9mm loads and I’ve decided on the 147 as my default practice ammunition.

I seem to recall Todd had a presence for the 124 +P loads - and one of the reasons was improved cycling, noting he had seen guns that were choking with standard pressure ammunition suddenly resume proper function when fed +P. I suspect one of the malfunctions where I could detect the slide velocity significantly slowing might have manifested later with hotter ammunition. That said, I knew that malfunction was coming and I wanted to get a sense of when the wheels would come off the bus. If you can sense the slide slowing down, that’s the gun saying it needs lube.


From the cheap seats, I hate that all the new plate systems are foregoing the GIANT DPO bolt at the rear.

I really liked how the Staccato uses that third bolt to lock the DPP via the rear sight…what I disliked was the horrible DPP battery life.

[JSGlock34]

From the cheap seats, I hate that all the new plate systems are foregoing the GIANT DPO bolt at the rear.

It looks like that there is yet another generation of Staccato mounting plates by Dawson. I don't see replacing my current plate anytime soon as the E6000 is doing the job, but this new design incorporates the third bolt, which looks like a major improvement. Dawson is calling it the DPO-ECO (Extreme Co-witness Optic). (https://staccato2011.com/products/dawson-precision-trijicon-rmr-sro-eco-mounting-kit). I like that they eliminated the lightening cut as well. Looks like a significant improvement.

https://staccato2011.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn11.bigcommerce.com%2Fs-gat766x3mw%2Fimages%2Fstencil%2Foriginal%2Fproduct s%2F2272%2F5593%2FB1032998-Edit1000px__00744.1700509214.1280.1280__09110__030 15.1701718672.jpg&w=3840&q=90

[GJM]

https://youtu.be/kBIi-qizAxw?si=24C10Gywo7W4OMym

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

https://youtu.be/kBIi-qizAxw?si=24C10Gywo7W4OMym

I have Ben back w/ Joel for 4 days next week & will be asking him what he’s decided etc.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

https://youtu.be/kBIi-qizAxw?si=24C10Gywo7W4OMym

I have Ben back w/ Joel for 4 days next week, will be asking him what he’s decided & also will enjoy watching them intro. folks to shooting occluded optics.

[GJM]

I have Ben back w/ Joel for 4 days next week, will be asking him what he’s decided & also will enjoy watching them intro. folks to shooting occluded optics.

Here is YVK's suggestion to Ben on the YouTube channel comments section.

YVK_

I think you should get this gun that uses mags too big for its caliber, forces your grip around its safeties, has this awesome implement called grip safety, and doesn't do anything better than Shadow 2. It will allow you as instructor to better relate to those students who have a panic attack every time they have to pull a stock Glock trigger. Go for the XC: there is nothing better to teach nuances of recoil management and trigger press than 40 oz all-steel 9 mm gun with a comp and 2.5 trigger. Legit

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/kBIi-qizAxw?si=24C10Gywo7W4OMymI think he should get a MAC 9 DS for a dedicated trainer. He can update his viewers every 3-4 months on how it holds up.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[JCS]

I have Ben back w/ Joel for 4 days next week & will be asking him what he’s decided etc.

I'll be bringing mine as a backup gun he can play with if he so desires.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I'll be bringing mine as a backup gun he can play with if he so desires.

Since he's got dos manos reckon I could bring my gen 1 P but he 'prolly wouldn't like the Cheely or Reese's Pieces color the slide's wearing.

[Tokarev]

He bought one


https://youtu.be/wYH8lvz8pEw?si=EIHpOFlZpe-rF_3o

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[JCS]

Does anyone know if the Holosun 507 optics will fit on the factory plate for trijicon rmr/sro? It's the same footprint but Staccato sells a different plate for holosun.

[SoCalDep]

Does anyone know if the Holosun 507 optics will fit on the factory plate for trijicon rmr/sro? It's the same footprint but Staccato sells a different plate for holosun.

Yes - it will fit. The screws are different since the Holosun requires shorter screws. If you order the RMR plate you’ll have to find different screws… and they have been discussed at length here.

[JCS]

Yes - it will fit. The screws are different since the Holosun requires shorter screws. If you order the RMR plate you’ll have to find different screws… and they have been discussed at length here.

In this thread or in the optic screw thread? Are the optic screws the same regardless of plates?

[SoCalDep]

In this thread or in the optic screw thread? Are the optic screws the same regardless of plates?

When I said “here”, I meant pistolforum. I’m not sure what specific optic thread… that said the screws I use for the Staccato/Dawson DPO plates are McMaster Carr stainless 6-32 but I need to get my hard drive to get the exact measurement/item number. I just used them to re-mount my 407C on my Staccato P that came back from some warrantee and add-on work.

Optic screws are not necessarily the same across different plates. Some plates may be threaded for different screws such as 6-40 or the plate may be thinner (requiring shorter screws) or thicker (requiring longer screws). There isn’t a ton of standardization right now.

[JCS]

When I said “here”, I meant pistolforum. I’m not sure what specific optic thread… that said the screws I use for the Staccato/Dawson DPO plates are McMaster Carr stainless 6-32 but I need to get my hard drive to get the exact measurement/item number. I just used them to re-mount my 407C on my Staccato P that came back from some warrantee and add-on work.

Optic screws are not necessarily the same across different plates. Some plates may be threaded for different screws such as 6-40 or the plate may be thinner (requiring shorter screws) or thicker (requiring longer screws). There isn’t a ton of standardization right now.

Thank you I appreciate that! I'll do some searching around.

[SoCalDep]

Thank you I appreciate that! I'll do some searching around.

I pulled up my info... The screws I use for Holosun (407C/507C/508T footprint) to the Staccato (Dawson) plate are as follows:

McMaster-Carr 6-32 x 3/8" Stainless Steel (IP10 Drive), part number 92703A253.

I use stainless instead of alloy steel because the Holosun optics require a smaller diameter head than the RMR/SRO and the stainless fits while the alloy steel are too wide to seat consistently, especially with the titanium body 508T.

Between the Holosuns and the RMR, there's a 1/16" difference, so whatever any plate requires for RMR screws, take 1/16" off that and you'll have what you need for a Holosun.

[GJM]

I saw a P with the factory comp today. It was crazy long, no doubt modeled on the Glock 17L! :)

[rathos]

I can't imagine running a P with a comp at all let alone that factory one. I have a C2 and tried the threat cadre comp. I could not get the gun to run reliably. It pissed me off so much I ended up taking it off with pliers at the range and tossing it. Because I am a glutton for punishment I decided to try the parker mountain machine comp. It lined up pretty good and looks good, but I won't get to shoot it until possibly this weekend. I did pick up a pack of the factory springs for their comp, so maybe it will work better, but most of the youtube "influencers" claim the PMM comp runs with the factory springs.


I saw a P with the factory comp today. It was crazy long, no doubt modeled on the Glock 17L! :)

[JSGlock34]

The Staccato P hit 16,040 rounds over this weekend. I haven't updated this thread in a while; the P doesn't get shot as much since I added an XC and C2 to the armory. After a few failures to lock back with the #10 17 round magazine (mostly observed when this magazine was used with the XC), I bought some replacement magazine springs from Dawson and resprung the mags, which eliminated the issue.