RFI: budget cold weather gear in 2022

[rob_s]

This Florida boy is headed to Denver in February and Jackson in March. Others in these groups are skiing, I am not, and I’ll be largely in-town and indoors in Denver but likely wanting to do “outside things” in Jackson (walking around town, going on some sort of “expedition”, etc.).

I can do a lot of googling for “best cold weather gear”, and some of those results will even have “budget options”, but I prefer actual advice from people I “know”. Also, given the context of someone that’s been in SE FL for the last 20+ years that may be a little more sensitive to cold than someone venturing to these locales from NYC or Boston… or even Atlanta.

If it matters, I’m 6’-1”, 190lbs and while I’d love to say “I don’t care what it looks like” that’s just not true (particular,
Ly for the Denver trip, which is semi-work-related) and I’m willing to pay a couple of extra shekels for something that looks presentable (I.e. “minimalist”) vs something cheaper that looks like a nascar.

My thought is that I probably don’t *need* anything special for Denver, but if I’m going to buy something for Jackson I might as well do it now and use it for Denver too.

[RoyGBiv]

I'm also a warm weather guy, but when I travel to cold places I always take a good scarf. Having an adjustable "seal" around my neck gives me lots of options. Getting a little sweaty from the outdoor activities? Loosen up and let some heat out. Sort of like a gun belt with unlimited adjustments.

https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Shemagh-Head-Neck-Scarf/dp/B00X31L2W8

[peterb]

For basic walking around without freezing…
Layers and thickness are your friends. Basically, thick fuzzy stuff with a windproof shell over. It doesn’t have to be pretty. Fleece works well as insulation but needs a shell if there’s wind.
You could also get a really cheap big puffy jacket. It’ll keep you warm but be heavier and not last as well as a more expensive one.
Winter “work clothing”(Dickies, WearGuard, etc.) can be good inexpensive stuff that doesn’t look stupid.
Feet: the loosest pair of boots you have, and thick wool socks that fit without being compressed. A thin liner sock can help with sweat. Allow wiggle room.
Legs: I like lined pants in the winter. A cheaper option is probably generic synthetic long underwear under pants you already have.
Torso: something wicking next to the skin, maybe a turtleneck, and then start adding warmth layers. A vest is good in the mix for better arm mobility. Some kind of shell.
Head & neck: For me, keeping my neck warm makes a big difference. Turtleneck, scarf, or neck gaiter. Warm hat that covers the ears, usually multi-layer fleece or knit.
Hands: mittens are the cheapest way to have warm fingers. Insulated work gloves are usually decent and cheap. Liners can boost warmth at low cost.

Cheap stuff usually works for warmth— it’s just heavier, bulkier, not as elegant and not as well made. Layering stuff you already own also works.

[Guerrero]

Instead of a scarf, I really like one of those 4-in-1 fleece hoods. Probably the best $10 I've ever spent on cold weather gear. It goes around my neck better than any scarf, I can pull it up over my head as a hood if my hat just isn't doing a good enough job, and I can cinch it up like a balaclava for those bitterly cold windy days; it's also thin enough to fit under my parka hood (that's right - on really cold days I have a hat, a fleece hood/balaclava, and my parka hood covering my head).

For coats, I still like the Land's End Squall Parka. It won't break the bank (@rob_s there's a sale on them ending today), and it works well with a sweatshirt and t-shirt underneath. It won't win any fashion awards, though; it's about as boring white-bread as you can get.

I still haven't found winter gloves I like and will keep my hands warm when the temps really plummet, but I picked up a pair of Seirus all-weather gloves that have worked pretty well on all but the worst days.

[GJM]

As a general rule, any money you spend on Arcteryx is money well spent. For example, I have an Arcteryx hardshell I bought in 2002, hunted in for years, and despite being covered in blood multiple times, the jacket looks and performs as if new.

[JCN]

Edit: reread the OP and missed the “care how it looks” part.

[Mitch]

For basic walking around without freezing…
Layers and thickness are your friends. Basically, thick fuzzy stuff with a windproof shell over. It doesn’t have to be pretty. Fleece works well as insulation but needs a shell if there’s wind.
You could also get a really cheap big puffy jacket. It’ll keep you warm but be heavier and not last as well as a more expensive one.
Winter “work clothing”(Dickies, WearGuard, etc.) can be good inexpensive stuff that doesn’t look stupid.
Feet: the loosest pair of boots you have, and thick wool socks that fit without being compressed. A thin liner sock can help with sweat. Allow wiggle room.
Legs: I like lined pants in the winter. A cheaper option is probably generic synthetic long underwear under pants you already have.
Torso: something wicking next to the skin, maybe a turtleneck, and then start adding warmth layers. A vest is good in the mix for better arm mobility. Some kind of shell.
Head & neck: For me, keeping my neck warm makes a big difference. Turtleneck, scarf, or neck gaiter. Warm hat that covers the ears, usually multi-layer fleece or knit.
Hands: mittens are the cheapest way to have warm fingers. Insulated work gloves are usually decent and cheap. Liners can boost warmth at low cost.

Cheap stuff usually works for warmth— it’s just heavier, bulkier, not as elegant and not as well made. Layering stuff you already own also works.

This is good feedback. Only things I’ll add are merino wool is pretty amazing, and good base layers do a lot of
heavy lifting. Midweight (250g) merino wool base layers can be found on Amazon, I used those for a lot of the hunting season this fall and they did great.

[Le Français]

Here's some inexpensive stuff that's helped keep me warm in Colorado, Wyoming, Quebec, the Adirondacks, and other cold places:

Puff jacket, some colors on sale, $40:

https://www.amzn.com/B07BN7G9J2

Military wool gloves, $11:

https://www.amzn.com/B07MKS5FGH

Lightweight balaclava, $7:

https://www.amzn.com/B086Z2CZJJ

I would definitely add a scarf, wool or fleece hat, and additional layers. For example, if it's really cold I might wear a compression fit long sleeve shirt, a ls henley, a flannel shirt, and a fleece under a puff jacket. If you might get wet, avoid cotton and prioritize wool (and add a hard shell).

[rob_s]

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

I actually already have the hooded version of that Amazon puffy coat, although I'm dying to replace it with one of these for no reason other than nostalgia
https://www.browning.com/products/hunting-clothing/exclusive/650-down-filled-jacket-michaels.html

As for layering, I get the concept, but keep in mind I basically own a single flannel shirt right now. I just never need anything else. The "cold" here basically necessitates a long-sleeve cotton t-shirt and an Alpha flight jacket (the combination of which is honestly usually overkill) or a short-sleeve cotton shirt and a sweater. Which means I'm going to have to buy at least one or two somethings.

so given that I have to buy some "base" stuff anyway, what're my best bets here for layering?

[pangloss]

For coats, I really like Marmot. I bought a new one in November to replace the one I bought in 2008 and used as my primary coat every year since. Most of those years I lived farther north than I do now. Marmot runs significant sales sometimes.

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[nalesq]

given that I have to buy some "base" stuff anyway, what're my best bets here for layering?

I think the best base layers are made of merino wool. This material wicks away moisture if you get a little sweaty, retains insulation properties even when damp. But what to me really sets merino wool apart from synthetic materials it somehow resists odor and funk better than anything else in my experience. Also, unlike poly-based base layers, it won’t melt, which is good if you are ever warming up around a fire.


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[vcdgrips]

Buckle Up. Good on you for thinking about this now.

If you had a budget in mind, I could make better recommendations. Will you be driving/carrying on or checking a bag?


Layers-

Merino Wool- Pros-Warm/packs light/naturally antibacterial so it does not hold stink/retains 70+% of its warming properties even when wet/naturally flame resistant
Cons-Can be expensive relative to synthetics, can be more fragile than synthetics/can shrink if improperly washed and/or dried
Note-most products in this space are made in China. This may be a space where if you want the product, you have to buy from China.

Synthetics-Pros-warm/packs light/much more durable relative to merino wool/often much less expensive than merino wool/stuff that will work is readily available at many big box stores.
Cons-not as warm as merino gram for gram/not as warm if wet/can hold stink such that they really need to be washed in Oxy clean on the regular/can be flammable

Socks- Merino Wool- Historically, Costco sold a 70+ % Merino Wool Sock Made in the USA for under 20USD in a 4 pk. These are simply great. I am told that this year's model is not as good and has much less wool in them. Legacy stuff is now going for 60USD a 4 pk on amazon and ebay and is probably still "worth" it relative to Smartwool and Darn Tough which are superlative at 20 USD EACH. Having said that, cold feet suck, buy good socks. NO COTTON AT ALL.

Hat/gloves-Fleece hat big enough to cover your head easily. I am a big Outdoor Research fan re Gloves. Having said that, Costco sells a "Head" and "Spyder" brands in weights that would likely
work well for you.

Scarf-I like the variety and fashion of them.

Buff- A great piece of gear and may make more sense than a scarf in a covid world where you can pull it up over your face and nose.

Given who you are and where you are from, you would probably get more "value" out of a puffy coat and a wind/rain shell over it than a 1 piece design

IMHO- the intersection of quality/value/performance/fashion is Uniqlo for outerwear and their HEATTECH base layers.
https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/men

When I was outfitting Scouts and Scout Parents- Sierra Trading Post was a go to place.
https://www.sierra.com/

There is no doubt that Arcteryx is the best made mass market outdoor gear sold in the outwear space. It is usually priced accordingly. Try to find it 25% off. It is rarely more than 35% retail.

[4RNR]

I just wear layers. I don't look at thread counts or merino wool or wicking anything. Just layers. I wear a tank top, a t-shirt, some sort of sweater and a jacket. And jeans. That's it. I live in the NE, yesterday was windy and 22°. Because of the wind I wore a hoody, one you'd normally wear in the spring or early fall, and a jacket.

This was the jacket
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rugged-Elements-Men-s-Trek-Jacket-Tan-Size-L/910140544

If I spent all day outside I would probably have different clothing but being mostly indoors with some outdoor stuff this was fine. Even took my dog out for half hour. Only regret was that I didn't bring gloves.

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[JclInAtx]

To keep the budget down you might try buying second hand, especially if you're only going to use it for a single trip. Besides Craigslist, next door and Facebook marketplace I think Patagonia and REI sell used clothing. Especially for an insulating layer you're just going to cover with a shell.

[ST911]

My thought is that I probably don’t *need* anything special for Denver, but if I’m going to buy something for Jackson I might as well do it now and use it for Denver too.

Familiar with both areas and conditions. Depending on how we quantify "budget" I could give you a shopping list, but the principles are pretty universal. Complementary layers that can be added or shed as needed, moisture wicking and breathable if you're going to be active, wind resistant and DWR is always handy, minimize bulk wherever possible for comfort and packability. Playing outside, start with wool or fleece undies and tees, long or short as you wish, under insulated or non-insulated softshell tech fabrics. Wool lined gloves and beanies. GTG wool socks like Darn Tough, Fits, a few others, inside your footwear of choice.

GJM's Arc reference is solid. Buy once, cry once. There is also great benefit in working within a manufacturer's system, as the layers are more complementary and sized to fit together. It may not be "budget", but it needn't be terribly expensive either. His suggestion below is Arteryx. I wear a lot of Beyond, and their import line is solid.

Going home to Florida, you won't have much need for a budget friendly big puffy jacket. But a smartly chosen combination of softshell jacket, wool or fleece mid-layer, base layers, and tech pants will continue to be useable.

A lot of stuff out there works, and it becomes degrees of well and combination of features at given price points.


As a general rule, any money you spend on Arcteryx is money well spent. For example, I have an Arcteryx hardshell I bought in 2002, hunted in for years, and despite being covered in blood multiple times, the jacket looks and performs as if new.

[OlongJohnson]

Get a knit beanie that you like. I have a Marmot with a fleece band stitched to the inside that is superb. I also have an FMF (powersports exhaust) logowear beanie that I must've picked up on some deep discount years ago. It has proven remarkably competent this winter, with impressive wicking capabilities. I watched the precipitation change from rain to snow on Christmas morning, and it did great all week. I have less hair than you, but in relevant conditions (still well above freezing), I'd rather have a t-shirt and a beanie than a jacket and nothing on my head.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but when I lived near mountains and spent extended time outdoors in snow, I really liked silk long johns as a base layer. Even better than wool. But I don't bother unless I plan to be outdoors (or possibly outdoors) in snow all day.

I'm good down to the mid 30s as long as I'm active and it's a relatively dry cold with just an insulated Dickies "Eisenhower" jacket. If I'm going to be less active or out for a longer period of time, I do more.

My basic building block is a "down sweater," basically a lightweight down jacket. Has a big, tall collar that does the job of a scarf really well. It weighs almost nothing and packs down to about the size of a softball if you need to do that. Amazingly warm. I picked it up on an end of season clearance for about $50 at the local REI nearly a decade ago. Over that, depending on conditions (rain, snow, wind, etc., I have an REI brand Gore-Tex shell that I bought in 1996 and has been almost everywhere with me. Still going strong, although if I used it more or harder, I probably would have killed it and replaced it with something tougher. If needed, I'll add a first underlayer, something like a thin fleece. With that, I can be outside and not super active for a couple hours down to about 20. If I'm active, I might sweat even at that temp.

I haven't had any reason to be out much colder than that in recent years, as the (work) equipment I use starts having issues. Replacing the Gore-Tex shell with a decent quality winter parka gets me down to zero or so. At that point, you need to pay attention to exposed skin. I took my usual 40-minute walk last February when it was about 6 here for a couple days, and I think I damaged the skin on my lip a little bit. Some kind of wind protection would have been good. That's when I revived this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?18078-Winter-Gloves&p=1186842&viewfull=1#post1186842). I still "need" to do something there, although I haven't actually "needed" to yet.

Since you're a Milwaukee guy, you might at least check out their line of M12 heated gear.

[rob_s]

To keep the budget down you might try buying second hand, especially if you're only going to use it for a single trip. Besides Craigslist, next door and Facebook marketplace I think Patagonia and REI sell used clothing. Especially for an insulating layer you're just going to cover with a shell.

definitely an option. Wife is all over poshmark for her and the kids' gear.

[rob_s]

Going home to Florida, you won't have much need for a budget friendly big puffy jacket. But a smartly chosen combination of softshell jacket, wool or fleece mid-layer, base layers, and tech pants will continue to be useable.

Fair point, and generally I'd agree, but frankly I'm more than a little annoyed at the two trips as it is (both have skiing components that I'm opting out of, because I don't see the point in skiing twice ever) and would prefer to not repeat either of these trips or any other involving these temps. It's downright goddamn uncivilized! :p

But, as mentioned, poshmark is an option and the wife has been on a buying frenzy for her and the girls, including their ski gear (I fly out after their done with that folly).

I just don't know what I don't know and kind of need an infant's guide to dressing for cold.

[rob_s]

something else that occurs to me... frozen water. I think y'all call it "snow"? :eek:

I don't expect I'll be rolling around in it like some kind of child, but particularly in Jackson likely won't be able to avoid it. Do I need to be thinking about fancy footwear (other than my standard GoreTex laceup Keen boots?) or pants (other than Wranglers over some longjohns?)?

My go-to everyday boot is a Doc Martens Chelsea Boot (https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Martens-Crazy-Chelsea-Gaucho/dp/B000W8AIUW). I'm operating under the assumption that those boots, the aforementioned Keens, and some Smartwool socks will be sufficient?

[JclInAtx]

Growing up in the northeast we used to put plastic bread bags over our socks before putting boots on for some extra warmth before going out to play in the snow. Vapor barrier socks are the grownup version of this. That and warm socks might add enough warmth that you could use your existing boots.

Windblock fleece hats help a lot in cold weather. But it has to be cold as I'll quickly get overheated if not. I find regular 'ski' hat style puts pressure on my ears/eyeglasses and after too long can become uncomfortable. The Peruvian style hats, with the earflaps, keep my ears warm without this.

[peterb]

something else that occurs to me... frozen water. I think y'all call it "snow"? :eek:

I don't expect I'll be rolling around in it like some kind of child, but particularly in Jackson likely won't be able to avoid it. Do I need to be thinking about fancy footwear (other than my standard GoreTex laceup Keen boots?) or pants (other than Wranglers over some longjohns?)?

My go-to everyday boot is a Doc Martens Chelsea Boot (https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Martens-Crazy-Chelsea-Gaucho/dp/B000W8AIUW). I'm operating under the assumption that those boots, the aforementioned Keens, and some Smartwool socks will be sufficient?

As long as you’re moving and not out for hours at a time, the boots you have should be ok. There’s a huge difference in clothing needed to keep warm when moving and when standing still.

Long underwear under jeans should be ok. The long underwear will keep the heat close to your leg so the outside of the denim stays colder and snow is less likely to melt on it. Brush off before you come inside to avoid getting damp. If you do think you’ll be rolling around in the snow with the kids, a cheap set of rain pants over the jeans will shed the snow.

[peterb]

I just don't know what I don't know and kind of need an infant's guide to dressing for cold.

My single favorite cool/cold-weather layering piece is a vest —- can be fleece, wool, or puffy. Very versatile, packs small.

[RoyGBiv]

definitely an option. Wife is all over poshmark for her and the kids' gear.

Might check the local Salvation Army/Goodwill/Resale stores for all the discards from the relocated Yankees.

[Erik]

If you're going to be walking in the snow, you'll want a taller boot or at least one that won't let snow get down inside it.

[Le Français]

If you're going to be walking in the snow, you'll want a taller boot or at least one that won't let snow get down inside it.

https://www.amzn.com/B00AMSZEEW

Gaiters like these OR ones I’ve used for 7 years are great for keeping snow out.

[NEPAKevin]

Even though my boots are all Goretex lined, I put a coating over them so snow and mud don't stick . Mink oil or Snow Shield (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004X6ST46/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) work. Cold, wet feet suck.

[JHC]

As a general rule, any money you spend on Arcteryx is money well spent. For example, I have an Arcteryx hardshell I bought in 2002, hunted in for years, and despite being covered in blood multiple times, the jacket looks and performs as if new.

A pattern that has emerged for me since PF is after a few years of GJM telling me something, I finally go there and it works out pretty well normally.

I got kilt with damp near freezing hunting a couple years ago because I didn't have true armor against anything the north GA mountains might conjure up during deer season. I said F it, no more going cheap and did this. It is worth 20% more than it's price.

Waterproof and warm as heck. Cry once. I'm wearing it in my avatar.

https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/fission-sv-jacket#search=1

[JHC]

OTOH I have a milspec Navy P coat that is super thick wool and it's every bit as warm but you can overheat in it more than the technical Arcteryx. It's big downside is it objects to you fitting in behind a steering wheel something awful. It's bulky that way. I got mine at a surplus store for $100.

[GJM]

A pattern that has emerged for me since PF is after a few years of GJM telling me something, I finally go there and it works out pretty well normally.

I got kilt with damp near freezing hunting a couple years ago because I didn't have true armor against anything the north GA mountains might conjure up during deer season. I said F it, no more going cheap and did this. It is worth 20% more than it's price.

Waterproof and warm as heck. Cry once. I'm wearing it in my avatar.

https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/fission-sv-jacket#search=1

I didn't realize you bought that jacket. My wife and I each got one about ten years ago, and have worn it non stop since. Here is a picture from 2013 in it.

82693

Here it is this afternoon wadded up in my pack as survival gear.

82694

And, how it looks ten years later, after thousands of wearings.

82695

[Bruce Cartwright]

Rob S:

I am a big fan of Minus 33 base layers. They have held up very well for me. Here is a link: "https://www.minus33.com/". Minus 33 makes a midweight base layering system that is what I use most often. You can easily add layers if you need to. I tend to like thinner base layers unless it's brutally cold. I just add what I need to get to my desired temperature level. The midweight garments also have a decent appearance.

A fleece jacket is probably mandatory. The beauty of fleece is that you can wear them when you need a bit extra warmth, but don't need your outer layer. An example would be when you are driving. Add a good wind proof jacket, preferably with an attached hood. The wind can suck they life right out of you if you are not careful.

As to footwear, I'd suggest allocating a big chunk of your budget for good boots. I have become a huge fan of Lowa and Asolo boots. Get them big enough that you can wear them with thick wool socks. Something that also helps is a thin (silk) liner sock. Get good gloves if you need to have significant dexterity outdoors, otherwise consider mittens. Mittens tend to be warmer. In extreme cold, I wear wool gloves inside heavy mittens (they used to be called "Choppers") which is the best of both worlds. A merino wool beanie (what us old dudes called "watch caps") is worth its weight in gold if you are spending significant time outside.

A couple of additional points:

1. Hydration: It is very easy to get dehydrated out west due to low humidity levels. This is especially true at significant elevation levels (say above 3,000 feet above sea level). Hydrate of die as the saying goes.
2. Make sure your boots are broken in. The only thing worse than boots that don't fit/aren't broken in are wet boots that don't fit.
3. Good sunglasses are a must. I am a big fan of Oakley M frames (old age and decrepitude showing again-I don't even know if Oakley makes M frames anymore).
4. Bring/get good sunscreen and lip balm. A handkerchief is nice too.
5. If you are driving out from Florida with the family, a fleece blanket is a nice addition.
6. If you are legal to carry concealed, a S&W airweight J frame in an outer coat pocket beats the coolest blaster buried under all of your layers.
7. Avoid pissing off the bears (should be in hibernation) or other wildlife.

Hope that helps. Safe travels,

Bruce

[rob_s]

A pattern that has emerged for me since PF is after a few years of GJM telling me something, I finally go there and it works out pretty well normally.

I got kilt with damp near freezing hunting a couple years ago because I didn't have true armor against anything the north GA mountains might conjure up during deer season. I said F it, no more going cheap and did this. It is worth 20% more than it's price.

Waterproof and warm as heck. Cry once. I'm wearing it in my avatar.

https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/fission-sv-jacket#search=1

Id love to have something like that, and maybe I’ll look around at poshmark and other sites, but there’s just no way I’m sinking $800 into a coat that’s going to get worn twice in the next two months and then (if I have my way) not again for several years.

If it was something that might at least get worn *sometimes* in S Florida and/or at least looked presentable to wear for work or other less casual occasions, *maybe* half that price might be worth it.

I totally get that it’s quality shit, and generally I’m the overspend guy, but in this case it would just be ridiculous to leave $800 hanging in the closet until 2030.

[peterb]

Id love to have something like that, and maybe I’ll look around at poshmark and other sites, but there’s just no way I’m sinking $800 into a coat that’s going to get worn twice in the next two months and then (if I have my way) not again for several years.

I was thinking that there may be some well-meaning mission creep here. We need to remember that this is a visit to ski resort towns, where a brutal slog will be more than a block to the next coffee shop or bar. :)

And it’s not as if you’ll need to call in an airdrop if you find you need a piece of clothing. If the boots or clothing you have aren’t working, you can go find the local Tractor Supply/Bass Pro equivalent and find something that will at a reasonable price.

[rob_s]

I was thinking that there may be some well-meaning mission creep here. We need to remember that this is a visit to ski resort towns, where a brutal slog will be more than a block to the next coffee shop or bar. :)

And it’s not as if you’ll need to call in an airdrop if you find you need a piece of clothing. If the boots or clothing you have aren’t working, you can go find the local Tractor Supply/Bass Pro equivalent and find something that will at a reasonable price.

Had a conversation with the wife this morning where she expressed that I was over-thinking (no!) and/or over-shopping for this trip, which frankly has me resolved to simply arrive in my flip-flops and board shorts and buy whatever else I need on-site... :p

In which case, I'm probably going to grab up some gloves and long-johns, consider them and whatever I already own as a practice run in Denver in February (which is largely indoors and only in the city) and adjust accordingly.

Did stumble on this (https://www.backcountry.com/norrona-oslo-gore-tex-jacket-mens?skid=NRA00JI-INDNT-L&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6bm9ycm9ubyBvc2xvOjE6Mjpub3J yb25vIG9zbG8=)though, which in green would be ok for "work" back in FL in the rare instances I need a "coat".

[ST911]

@rob_s (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=2173)

Here's a good stack of gear for you. Cost effective, import, quality. I use it in daily wear and doing consequential things.

Baselayers, choose primus or celeris by your cold tolerance or duration outside. I've worn my celeris on cool nights in FL/TX/etc, so you could reuse.
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/baselayers

Jackets, recommend a prima lochi or aptus. Supplies for prima lochi may be limited, you may need to go with the ultra lochi (newer version). Aptus has a lining.
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-aptus-jacket?variant=31782858489918
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k3-prima-lochi-jacket?variant=31782866354238

I usually start with a wool or tech tee, then add those. For reference, when I wear a tee, celeris mid, and an aptus I am GTG at and a bit below zero.

Pants, wear what you like. If you want a recommendation:
Unlined softshell, DWR and wind resist: https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-velox-light-softshell-pant?variant=32285327458366
Lined softshell, same: https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-testa-softshell-pant?variant=32203138924606

Combine with the baselayers above.

Good footwear, good socks, wool beanie, good gloves. You're set.

I can go further down this rabbit hole as you wish. The US made side is also very GTG, more expensive, I can say more, but may not meet juice:squeeze for you.

[peterb]

82716

High of 40, low of 20 is not brutal, and the West gets a lot more sunshine than the Northeast. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised that 30’s and sunshine is quite comfortable if you’re moving and there’s not a lot of wind.

[Guerrero]

High of 40, low of 20 is not brutal, and the West gets a lot more sunshine than the Northeast. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised that 30’s and sunshine is quite comfortable if you’re moving and there’s not a lot of wind.

Heck, 30's, sunshine, and no wind is almost hoodie and jeans weather.

[rob_s]

High of 40, low of 20 is not brutal, and the West gets a lot more sunshine than the Northeast. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised that 30’s and sunshine is quite comfortable if you’re moving and there’s not a lot of wind.

A few people have said the same. here and IRL.

I've just not been convinced in my (admittedly limited) experience coming from shorts, t-shirts, and flipflops 11.5 months of the year. :p

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Not the cheapest but wait on that: https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/38832325/jackets-for-men/?sp=1&color=Atlantic

Men's EverTherm Down Jacket

It is a light weight jacket but casual and good down to -20 deg, IIRC. Uses some new kind of insulation. It is my everyday jacket here and has been out in 5 deg with no problem. Hooded and non hooded variants. Gets good reviews.

While not an immediate solution if it is too pricey, Eddie Bauer runs a 50% sale every year and I bought two for about $125 each at the time. So for winter country and running around town, it works.

I do have the -40 deg gear but this one works for just going around town. I can take a walk in the 20's and feel fine.

[ST911]

High of 40, low of 20 is not brutal, and the West gets a lot more sunshine than the Northeast. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised that 30’s and sunshine is quite comfortable if you’re moving and there’s not a lot of wind.


Heck, 30's, sunshine, and no wind is almost hoodie and jeans weather.


A few people have said the same. here and IRL. I've just not been convinced in my (admittedly limited) experience coming from shorts, t-shirts, and flipflops 11.5 months of the year. :p

Yeah, 40 is mostly nothing...until you're acclimated to FL.

[Lex Luthier]

Heck, 30's, sunshine, and no wind is almost hoodie and jeans weather.


I've seen joggers in uninsulated tights and hoodies here and in Minneapolis on Tuesday and yesterday. Gonna be in the teens and snowing tomorrow though.

rob_s , the recommendations so far are good from my experience as a somewhat warmer-weather guy who has gone way north.
FWIW, if you are a Costco member, they carry very cheap base layers from 32Degree brand (like sub $10/ea) that work great down to the teens. I'm on my third year with a couple of pairs of shirts and bottoms. They have lined jeans that are less than $20/pr, too. It's totally workable to get a weeks worth of the stuff for under 200$.

[Hot Sauce]

The regular Alpha flight jacket (not the warm weather TT version), which you mentioned already having, is rated 25-40 degrees on it's own.

If you want to get fancy a merino shirt or a nice sweater would be good.

But honestly a regular shirt and sweater/hoodie with an Alpha bomber is probably just fine.

[jandbj]

For the casual or the super serious cold weather uses, I can’t say enough good things about how amazing turtlefur brand hats and neck gaiters are!

[LittleLebowski]

Poshmark.

[Hot Sauce]

double post

[DamonL]

Get a knit beanie that you like. I have a Marmot with a fleece band stitched to the inside that is superb. I also have an FMF (powersports exhaust) logowear beanie that I must've picked up on some deep discount years ago. It has proven remarkably competent this winter, with impressive wicking capabilities. I watched the precipitation change from rain to snow on Christmas morning, and it did great all week. I have less hair than you, but in relevant conditions (still well above freezing), I'd rather have a t-shirt and a beanie than a jacket and nothing on my head.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but when I lived near mountains and spent extended time outdoors in snow, I really liked silk long johns as a base layer. Even better than wool. But I don't bother unless I plan to be outdoors (or possibly outdoors) in snow all day.

I'm good down to the mid 30s as long as I'm active and it's a relatively dry cold with just an insulated Dickies "Eisenhower" jacket. If I'm going to be less active or out for a longer period of time, I do more.

My basic building block is a "down sweater," basically a lightweight down jacket. Has a big, tall collar that does the job of a scarf really well. It weighs almost nothing and packs down to about the size of a softball if you need to do that. Amazingly warm. I picked it up on an end of season clearance for about $50 at the local REI nearly a decade ago. Over that, depending on conditions (rain, snow, wind, etc., I have an REI brand Gore-Tex shell that I bought in 1996 and has been almost everywhere with me. Still going strong, although if I used it more or harder, I probably would have killed it and replaced it with something tougher. If needed, I'll add a first underlayer, something like a thin fleece. With that, I can be outside and not super active for a couple hours down to about 20. If I'm active, I might sweat even at that temp.

I haven't had any reason to be out much colder than that in recent years, as the (work) equipment I use starts having issues. Replacing the Gore-Tex shell with a decent quality winter parka gets me down to zero or so. At that point, you need to pay attention to exposed skin. I took my usual 40-minute walk last February when it was about 6 here for a couple days, and I think I damaged the skin on my lip a little bit. Some kind of wind protection would have been good. That's when I revived this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?18078-Winter-Gloves&p=1186842&viewfull=1#post1186842). I still "need" to do something there, although I haven't actually "needed" to yet.

Since you're a Milwaukee guy, you might at least check out their line of M12 heated gear.

Best advice ever.

Accessories - Hat, gloves. Layers - long johns, sweater/light fleece (office friendly clothing), down sweater (winter coat), goretex shell (Florida rain jacket). Worn all together, its warm. If its too warm, you can take one layer off. You might be able to use the shell and sweater in Florida later.

For the past 7 years, my winter wear is a Patagonia Down Sweater with an Arcteryx Beta AR over it.

[Andy T]

Consider buying from REI. They have a generous 1 year return policy, esp if it's something that you end up not needing. They even accept used stuff. They also sell returns at a discount.

If business casual, I like, and used J Crew 770 flannel lined pants (https://www.jcrew.com/p/mens/categories/clothing/pants-and-chinos/straight/770-straight-fit-flannel-lined-cabin-pant/AT392)

[rob_s]

@rob_s (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=2173)

Here's a good stack of gear for you. Cost effective, import, quality. I use it in daily wear and doing consequential things.

Baselayers, choose primus or celeris by your cold tolerance or duration outside. I've worn my celeris on cool nights in FL/TX/etc, so you could reuse.
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/baselayers

Jackets, recommend a prima lochi or aptus. Supplies for prima lochi may be limited, you may need to go with the ultra lochi (newer version). Aptus has a lining.
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-aptus-jacket?variant=31782858489918
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k3-prima-lochi-jacket?variant=31782866354238

I usually start with a wool or tech tee, then add those. For reference, when I wear a tee, celeris mid, and an aptus I am GTG at and a bit below zero.

Pants, wear what you like. If you want a recommendation:
Unlined softshell, DWR and wind resist: https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-velox-light-softshell-pant?variant=32285327458366
Lined softshell, same: https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-testa-softshell-pant?variant=32203138924606

Combine with the baselayers above.

Good footwear, good socks, wool beanie, good gloves. You're set.

I can go further down this rabbit hole as you wish. The US made side is also very GTG, more expensive, I can say more, but may not meet juice:squeeze for you.

Springing off of this to ask a larger question from the group, as others have mentioned "systems".

Would it be reasonable to assume that this "level 6" in a size large
https://beyondclothing.com/products/arx-2-k6-rain-jacket?variant=39398226853950

Would fit over this "level 5" in a size large?
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-testa-softshell-jacket?variant=31782886965310

and that each would be capable of being used standalone as-needed?

ETA:
not saying I want to shell out $450 in jackets, just using this as an example.

[ST911]

Springing off of this to ask a larger question from the group, as others have mentioned "systems".

Would it be reasonable to assume that this "level 6" in a size large
https://beyondclothing.com/products/arx-2-k6-rain-jacket?variant=39398226853950

Would fit over this "level 5" in a size large?
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k5-testa-softshell-jacket?variant=31782886965310

and that each would be capable of being used standalone as-needed?

ETA:
not saying I want to shell out $450 in jackets, just using this as an example.

Yes, those work together well. In that example though, the Testa is already DWR and windproof, you'd throw the ARX over it if you needed both an insulator with maximum dry or for sustained rain.

[vcdgrips]

Rob S- A primer from Beyond re how their layers work

https://beyondclothing.com/pages/system-builder

While the answer to your question is yes ish, If I needed to cut wind/rain with that L6 jacket, I would be far more likely to put it over some kind of insulated puffy which is likely to be far warmer and lighter that your linked i.e. this reversible L3 layer.
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/jackets/products/ultra-lochi-k3-jacket?variant=39633443323966

Edited to add-if you like the color- this far exceeds the intersection of quality/value/performance, particularly if you thrown in a merino base layer and/or a 1/4 zip fleece. 109.00 for the puffy/waterproof/windproof shell combo

https://www.sierra.com/the-north-face-carto-triclimate-primaloft-jacket-3-in-1-waterproof-insulated-for-men~p~66vjk/?filterString=s~3-in-1-jacket%2Fmen~d~5284%2F

[paherne]

No one has recommended PataGucci, yet? Most people around here, SF Bay Area, wear tons of Patagonia gear to the snow.

[rob_s]

Rob S- A primer from Beyond re how their layers work

https://beyondclothing.com/pages/system-builder

While the answer to your question is yes ish, If I needed to cut wind/rain with that L6 jacket, I would be far more likely to put it over some kind of insulated puffy which is likely to be far warmer and lighter that your linked i.e. this reversible L3 layer.
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/jackets/products/ultra-lochi-k3-jacket?variant=39633443323966

I was looking at the older version of that puffy (https://beyondclothing.com/products/k3-prima-lochi-jacket), although it’s gone in my size, but it brings up something else I don’t quite follow…

Hoods inside hoods? Presumably they are designed to work together in some way? It just seems cumbersome when the hoods are down?

Maybe this is another stupid Floridian question…

Unfortunately I don’t even really have a place here to go and try on any quantity of this stuff. There’s an REI but last year when I was doing something similar to this they had like 10 coats in stock. Not ten different models, ten coats. There’s a Peter Glenn that (once you get past the dickhead salesdorks…IF you can get past…) has a similar selection issue.

[rob_s]

The relative simplicity of the aesthetic, plus relatively low cost ($260 total) of these two appeals to me

This
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k4-ventum-ultralight-hoodie

Over this
https://beyondclothing.com/products/mens-clutch-k3-field-liner-jacket

[ST911]

No one has recommended PataGucci, yet? Most people around here, SF Bay Area, wear tons of Patagonia gear to the snow.

I have some, nothing wrong with it, fit template is a little different, and I'm less familiar. Their mil/Berry line has some neat stuff in it, but isn't available commercially.


I was looking at the older version of that puffy (https://beyondclothing.com/products/k3-prima-lochi-jacket), although it’s gone in my size, but it brings up something else I don’t quite follow…

Hoods inside hoods? Presumably they are designed to work together in some way? It just seems cumbersome when the hoods are down?

They nest with minimal bulk, some pieces stow, but if hoods annoy you you'll want to keep an eye on that.


Maybe this is another stupid Floridian question… Unfortunately I don’t even really have a place here to go and try on any quantity of this stuff. There’s an REI but last year when I was doing something similar to this they had like 10 coats in stock. Not ten different models, ten coats. There’s a Peter Glenn that (once you get past the dickhead salesdorks…IF you can get past…) has a similar selection issue.

It really helps to try stuff on, especially if they have a line of stuff stocked that you can see interact.


The relative simplicity of the aesthetic, plus relatively low cost ($260 total) of these two appeals to me

This
https://beyondclothing.com/products/k4-ventum-ultralight-hoodie

Over this
https://beyondclothing.com/products/mens-clutch-k3-field-liner-jacket

The ventum is ultralight (both jacket and pants) and primarily a wind layer. My ventum pants are like wearing pajama bottoms, or as close to not wearing pants as you can get. Same is true for the jacket. For your trip(s) I think it's probably light, think windbreaker. The clutch is okay, great liner, if you like the look as a standalone you might like it.

Using the import (K layer) line
cool- modus + celeris, maybe a testa
cold- prima lochi + primus or celeris (I've also used a dasche or dawa under a lochi for extra warmth)
colder- aptus + primus, maybe celeris - adding a celeris to the aptus is really warm for me

ARX is a rain shell, the layers above pair well.

The US-made/Berry gear in the A layer line have some different features, but if you're wanting to save some $$ I'll omit those.

Also worth noting- Remember that this is tech gear, engineered to be light, packable, minimal bulk, and interactive sizing. It will feel and wear lighter/thinner than its function, so visuals can be tough to use. Some think you need big puffy jackets and coyote collars to be warm.

There are equivalent systems in Outdoor Research, Patagonia, North Face, etc. Same concept, different execution.

[rob_s]

Using the import (K layer) line
cool- modus + celeris, maybe a testa
cold- prima lochi + primus or celeris (I've also used a dasche or dawa under a lochi for extra warmth)
colder- aptus + primus, maybe celeris - adding a celeris to the aptus is really warm for me

ARX is a rain shell, the layers above pair well.

So based on the above, I’m gathering that maybe I don’t “need” the rail shell at all?

[ST911]

So based on the above, I’m gathering that maybe I don’t “need” the rail shell at all?

For your trip and in the interest of cost, I'd skip it. For Florida rains and storms, it would be excellent.

[BJXDS]

If you can stay warm today and tomorrow in FLA you will be able to stay warm in Denver.

[rob_s]

yep, me again. Wife accidentally bought a men's medium Spyder ski coat that may be "mine" now, which reminded me of this thread and this topic which sent me looking again...

Would this
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/jackets/products/k7-cetra-jacket?variant=31782855180350

over this
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/jackets/products/k5-velox-light-softshell-jacket?variant=31782882279486

be appropriate?

I may get the Velox anyway even if I'm "stuck" with the Spyder...

[rob_s]

Probably gonna be an askhole and wind up ordering from here
https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us

Aesthetics matter to me, particularly since my Immediate trip is for work, and future trips to cold climates would likely be for work (I wouldn’t really voluntarily opt for cold-climate travel), so some of what I’ve been seeing is just too “sporty” looking for my tastes. Fjäräven has a more clean aesthetic to a lot of their pieces that appeals to me.

Speaking of work trip, this is how Denver is looking next week. I’m expecting that I will not be outdoors much but, unfortunately, whatever outdoor time there is will likely be walking to bars after dark, so the colder periods.

84343

[ST911]

Probably gonna be an askhole and wind up ordering from here
https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us

Fjrallraven makes some good stuff. Which pieces are you looking at?

[rob_s]

Fjrallraven makes some good stuff. Which pieces are you looking at?

I went ahead and ordered a few things to play with since I'm a little under the gun now. They say "free returns" so I tried to err on the side over over-buying (although now that I write this it occurs to me that I didn't order multiple sizes, which I usually like to do...)

got this as a "shell" even though I realize it's not fully waterproof, etc. They still list it as an outer. While not "professional" looking, it's also not "ski-slope" looking. Things I like (conceptually, but also based on other experiences in the past) are the bi-directional main zipper, the snaps on the cuffs instead of velcro, the shock cord at the waist, the vertical chest pockets...
SKOGSÖ JACKET M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/trekking-jackets/skogso-jacket-m?v=F81698%3a%3a7392158906925)


Got this as one liner option. Note lack of hood, which I wanted due to concerns around double-hooding.
EXPEDITION X-LÄTT JACKET M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/trekking-jackets/expedition-x-latt-jacket-m?v=F86333%3a%3a7323450721602)


got this as another liner option, in grey. This one I feel like will be pretty passable as "professional" looking, keeping in mind that it's still the construction industry. At least it doesn't look all "ski-y" and doesn't look too "outdoorsy".
ÖVIK FLEECE ZIP SWEATER M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/tops/sweaters-knitwear/ovik-fleece-zip-sweater-m?v=F87317%3a%3a7323450641726)


and finally, got this 3-in-1 even though I know that concept is "wrong" (like buying knife sets) in modern opinion. I liked the look of the outer coat well enough to risk it. Price is high but then again if it all works out I'm in for $550 for everything which the above combos all add up to around that as standalone pieces anyway. Main concern here is that the liner doesn't really look like something I'd want to wear by itself much, certainly not for work, but maybe the shell alone will be passable in that situation.
VISBY 3 IN 1 JACKET M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/shell-jackets/visby-3-in-1-jacket-m?v=F84130%3a%3a7323450719784)

[ST911]

I went ahead and ordered a few things to play with since I'm a little under the gun now. They say "free returns" so I tried to err on the side over over-buying (although now that I write this it occurs to me that I didn't order multiple sizes, which I usually like to do...)

Cool. I don't have any of those, looking forward to your feedback.

The pants are GTG if you do any more shopping.

[vcdgrips]

1. You work hard for the money...buy what you like.

2. It is quality merch and hits the intersection of outdoor function and fashion.

3. I like the Arcteryx meets Carhartt vibe very much

4 The bi-directional zipper is always a value add, particularly in accessing the waist line is desirable. (I just saw that the liner of your 3-1 has a bi directional zipper as well.)

5. I suspect there is a spray for that shell which would help it shed some water if you were really that concerned. It does not sound like your mission (s) need to be "waterproof", just water resistant.

6. That 3 in 1 set with a decent set of gloves/hat/scarf would likely be a 95% solution 95% of the time.

[rob_s]

I went ahead and ordered a few things to play with since I'm a little under the gun now. They say "free returns" so I tried to err on the side over over-buying (although now that I write this it occurs to me that I didn't order multiple sizes, which I usually like to do...)

got this as a "shell" even though I realize it's not fully waterproof, etc. They still list it as an outer. While not "professional" looking, it's also not "ski-slope" looking. Things I like (conceptually, but also based on other experiences in the past) are the bi-directional main zipper, the snaps on the cuffs instead of velcro, the shock cord at the waist, the vertical chest pockets...
SKOGSÖ JACKET M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/trekking-jackets/skogso-jacket-m?v=F81698%3a%3a7392158906925)


Got this as one liner option. Note lack of hood, which I wanted due to concerns around double-hooding.
EXPEDITION X-LÄTT JACKET M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/trekking-jackets/expedition-x-latt-jacket-m?v=F86333%3a%3a7323450721602)


got this as another liner option, in grey. This one I feel like will be pretty passable as "professional" looking, keeping in mind that it's still the construction industry. At least it doesn't look all "ski-y" and doesn't look too "outdoorsy".
ÖVIK FLEECE ZIP SWEATER M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/tops/sweaters-knitwear/ovik-fleece-zip-sweater-m?v=F87317%3a%3a7323450641726)


and finally, got this 3-in-1 even though I know that concept is "wrong" (like buying knife sets) in modern opinion. I liked the look of the outer coat well enough to risk it. Price is high but then again if it all works out I'm in for $550 for everything which the above combos all add up to around that as standalone pieces anyway. Main concern here is that the liner doesn't really look like something I'd want to wear by itself much, certainly not for work, but maybe the shell alone will be passable in that situation.
VISBY 3 IN 1 JACKET M (https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/shell-jackets/visby-3-in-1-jacket-m?v=F84130%3a%3a7323450719784)

All of the above arrived yesterday, and I tried it on just now. The good news is that it’s all the right size, and all fits, and the three separates even all work together if I wanted to triple-up. Also, all three pieces have bi-directional zippers which is awesome. All three offer the aesthetic I was hoping for as well, with the fleece looking very sweater-y and possibly suitable for work environments. The collar also lays flat nicely which was a concern for me.

No real bad news to report, other than a couple of oddities….
1) I forgot about Europeans and their habit of putting girl zippers on everything. So the zippers pull with the left hand and not the right. Not a deal breaker, but awfully goddamn annoying at least at first. Particularly with the double zipper setup.
2) can’t tell if it’s a subset of #1 or not, but the zipper on the fleece so far is a little difficult. I am hoping it just breaks in and I get used to using the satan hand for the operation.
3) I was hoping the fleece had some interior pockets. It does not. Again not a deal breaker just something to consider when wearing just that one jacket.
4) the shell has zero insulation of its own. Which is ok just not entirely expected. The waxed canvas material is really neat though and unlike the fleece it has a TON of well placed pockets.

Generally speaking I’m happy with all.

Strangely enough, the 3-in-1 is huge. Everything o ordered was a large, but this thing is voluminous. Maybe the idea is that you’d already have a ton of bulk on underneath. Idk. Either way it’s for sure going back as the other pieces are way better both individually and collectively.

[rob_s]

well, looks like I'll be packing all of the clothes.. Denver is currently projecting a high of 8 and low o3 -3 on Tuesday, with PM snow. Wednesday we get up to 13, and Thursday 24!
:mad:

[Lex Luthier]

You should do fine with that array of gear. Bring a beanie (if you can get a fleece-lined one, great, they do work better), a basic wool or acrylic scarf or a buff for your neck, and some half-decent wool socks.

Welcome to our world!

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