Smart guns again

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-smart-guns-finally-arriving-us-seeking-shake-up-firearms-market-2022-01-11/


LodeStar integrated both a fingerprint reader and a near-field communication chip activated by a phone app, plus a PIN pad. The gun can be authorized for more than one user.

The fingerprint reader unlocks the gun in microseconds, but since it may not work when wet or in other adverse conditions, the PIN pad is there as a backup. LodeStar did not demonstrate the near-field communication signal, but it would act as a secondary backup, enabling the gun as quickly as users can open the app on their phones.

Looks Glockish to me. Not for me.

Historically, they haven't worked reliably as I'm sure most know. I had a colleague at NJIT and they had a grant from Taurus to do such, never worked. SW, Taurus and Colt tried. There was the 22 LR mentioned in the article.

The rationale and problems:

1. Fear of NDs, kids getting their hands on it, stolen guns, etc.
2. IIRC, some gun companies did marketing and found there were customers for a home SD gun that would want such beast because of the fears in #1. So there was a sales opportunity.
3. The problem with #2 was that states might mandate them as NJ did if they were developed (law seems to have changed - not my lane). Antigun folks realize that such guns would cause more guns to be sold - OOPS! Nuts and angry folks could key in and go on a rampage anyway.
4. Police resistance as to reliability, reaction time (I forgot my password), etc. Would the most popular PIN be 1234?

Anybody in on this - in Idaho?

The only safe gun I would trust would be an energy weapon from the Weapons Shops of Isher.

Another story: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10390155/Smart-guns-finally-arriving-U-S-seeking-shake-firearms-market.html

[peterb]

The “near-field communication chip”. If someone could demonstrate the necessary reliability using an implanted device, I’d be interested. The idea of a firearm that could not be used by anyone else is compelling.

The huge downside is that the same identifying device could be used to identify the carrier in many other contexts, further eroding privacy.

Something like the Magna-Trigger doesn’t look so bad…..

[Hieronymous]

LodeStar co-founder Gareth Glaser said he was inspired after hearing one too many stories about children shot while playing with an unattended gun. Smart guns could stop such tragedies by using technology to authenticate a user's identity and disable the gun should anyone else try to fire it.



My fear is that this rationale would be compelling enough for many Judges to rule a State mandated requirement for same as a "reasonable restriction/regulation".

[Biggy]

Just a politically correct Bambi pistol with more BS that **will** fail. So for *me*, hell F-ing NO !!

[psalms144.1]

$2200 for a "civilian" version. Fuck. No.

[4RNR]

No thanks. It can be used as fast as you can open the app? Seriously? Lol! That works if you're doing 10 paces for a dual.

Prevent suicide? Sure! Because there is no other way. If that's the case then they should close the golden gate bridge, stop selling rope and pills and anything poisonous...

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Default.mp3]

Prevent suicide? Sure! Because there is no other way. If that's the case then they should close the golden gate bridge, stop selling rope and pills and anything poisonous...Friction is well-documented to have a significant impact on rates of suicide (among many other human activities, both positive and negative). The most famous and well-studied example is when the UK converted from coal gas ovens to natural gas ovens; while other means of suicide went up slightly, they were much lower than what was needed to compensate for the number of folks that had been killing themselves via coal gas.

[Suvorov]

No thanks. It can be used as fast as you can open the app? Seriously? Lol! That works if you're doing 10 paces for a dual.

Prevent suicide? Sure! Because there is no other way. If that's the case then they should close the golden gate bridge, stop selling rope and pills and anything poisonous...

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

It seems to me that the people driving the “smart gun” push have learned what they know about defensive gun use by watching TV. Until these ventures make a serious effort to consult and be guided by people like Mas or Givens or the like - they will never come up with a viable solution.

As for suicides - it is a tragic red herring. As many first world countries continually demonstrate, restricted access to firearms by civilians does nothing to prevent high suicide rates.

[Stony Lane]

Any company, dealer or distributor that deals in “smart” guns must be boycotted and driven out of business. If “smart” guns are even marginally available, some states will require them.

[TGS]

Friction is well-documented to have a significant impact on rates of suicide (among many other human activities, both positive and negative). The most famous and well-studied example is when the UK converted from coal gas ovens to natural gas ovens; while other means of suicide went up slightly, they were much lower than what was needed to compensate for the number of folks that had been killing themselves via coal gas.

Just here to say I have zero clue what any of this means in relation to the thread topic.

Friction?

Ovens?

Wtf?

[YVK]

Just here to say I have zero clue what any of this means in relation to the thread topic.

Friction?

Ovens?

Wtf?

Effort required to commit a suicide with specific means is inversely related to success at suicide. In this instance, the speculation is that the depressed people will not have enough fortitude to defeat the smart lock on a gun that belongs to someone else.

[Sig_Fiend]

It's my opinion that companies developing or pushing this technology should be given no quarter in this industry. The potential for abuse and erosion of rights is far too great.

[Trigger]

Oh, great. Tech that is vulnerable to EW just when I might need it most. Cell-phone jammers are pack-of-cigarette sized now. Who says you could not adapt that to the near-field RFID spectrum.

Or be required to phone-up someone/someplace for an unlock code to be allowed to use it on a “permitted range day.” Otherwise it stays locked.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

[4RNR]

Just here to say I have zero clue what any of this means in relation to the thread topic.

Friction?

Ovens?

Wtf?Because I mentioned suicide prevention as part of the idea behind the smart gun. Even though the technology allows for more than one user and people in one household will most likely be allowed access!

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Sig_Fiend]

Because I mentioned suicide prevention as part of the idea behind the smart gun. Even though the technology allows for more than one user and people in one household will most likely be allowed access!

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

I get that, and I'm sure there would be some measurable improvement in the statistics, at least for a period of time. Though, technology that enables users to increasingly abdicate their personal responsibility (e.g. self-driving cars) feels very wrong to me. It feels like a strategy that will have negative consequences for society and individual rights in the long term.

There are already numerous options on the market, even at affordable prices, that allow people to responsibly store their firearms in whatever manner they deem most appropriate for their situation. People can't even be bothered to use those options much of the time. Hence all of the negligent shootings by/of children because of parents "hiding" their guns and not teaching their kids properly.

Of course, it's far easier for society to throw another gadget at such problems and shift the goal post mostly laterally. All the while avoiding dealing with the underlying sociopolitical, economic, and cultural problems that lead people down self-destructive paths.

[JohnO]

When they mandate the current day Ted Kennedys to drive smart cars that can't kill people then you can talk to me about smart guns.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41DTHRJP05L._AC_.gif

[ViniVidivici]

No thanks. It can be used as fast as you can open the app? Seriously? Lol! That works if you're doing 10 paces for a dual.

Prevent suicide? Sure! Because there is no other way. If that's the case then they should close the golden gate bridge, stop selling rope and pills and anything poisonous...

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

Perfect for the modern idiot generation who can't even change a tire without watching a yoo toob vidya or asking Siri how.

[4RNR]

Perfect for the modern idiot generation who can't even change a tire without watching a yoo toob vidya or asking Siri how.And I just realized I used the wrong "dual"! [emoji2357]. I meant "duel"

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[wvincent]

Does it come with an optics cut?


Kidding.

I'm actually much more curious about the LE agent's that are "beta" testing it. Since he said "agents" vs saying "agency" or "department" makes me think just some sworn dudes making a little extra scratch on the side. At the range only, of course.

I really hope nobody is jamming this into their duty holster and going to work.
Or being encouraged to.

[MDFA]

Hello IT department? My "Smart Gun" won't fire and there's a man kicking my door in !!!

Yes I understand your problem and will have one of our associates with you as soon as possible, your wait time is 47 minutes.

Would you like to wait or do you prefer a call back when an associate becomes available?

Cue Elevator Music...

[Ed L]

How about this: when the national, city and state police departments of the places proposing smart guns have been using smart guns for at least 5 years, then maybe they can encourage citizens to buy into them. I will be glad to consider a Smart gun after the Secret Service and FBI have been using it for at least 5 years. Wait, I don't want to obligate myself to buy a Sig P320 in .40 S&W, with a Glock NY2 trigger, or whatever other concoction they might come out with.

[Craig_AR]

... that had been killing themselves via coal gas.
Coal gas? Are you referring to carbon monoxide, resulting from poorly ventilated dwellings and insufficiently oxidized coal? So, like, not suicides but tragic accidents?

[whomever]

Coal gas? Are you referring to carbon monoxide, resulting from poorly ventilated dwellings and insufficiently oxidized coal? So, like, not suicides but tragic accidents?

No, coal gas was a precursor to natural gas, made by heating coal at a plant and piped around like natural gas and used, like natural gas, for e.g. ovens. Except it contains a lot of monoxide right up front. I suppose when you burned it in air the monoxide oxidized to CO2. The distraught housewife sticking her head in the (un-lit) oven is a common trope in old movies.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas

[Whirlwind06]

During a demo, unlocked the gun fired one round and 2nd trigger pull, just a click.

https://thegunfeed.com/smart-gun-fails-to-fire-more-than-one-round-while-being-demonstrated-to-share-holders/

Seems that there is some debugging still needed.

[Stephanie B]

Wasn't there a mod to revolvers that required the user to wear a ring? I have a dim recollection of Mas writing approvingly of the device in one of his books.

The thing about RFI devices is that they can be spoofed or jammed. The gun would likely be locked until the user drew it; a jammer could confuse the chip-reader in the gun.

Also, what happens when the chip-reader and the locking mechanism run out of power? Will that be a subject of a weekly/monthly inspection at roll-call?

[peterb]

Wasn't there a mod to revolvers that required the user to wear a ring? I have a dim recollection of Mas writing approvingly of the device in one of his books.

Magna-Trigger: http://www.tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html

"Guns have been modified for police since June, 1976. For convenience, all magnetic rings allow firing of all modified guns. The device slides out for easy gun cleaning, and never requires oiling. Only one moving part is employed. The device is expected to outlast your gun by countless years. The powerful samarium magnets can last for centuries. The tiny stainless steel rings never tarnish, and weigh only five grams (1/5 ounce). You wear the ring on your middle finger for the six-shot guns and on the ring finger for the five-shot guns or the Ruger. Most officers wear a ring on both hands.

All S&W J, K, L, & N frame guns can be modified. One other revolver, the Ruger Security Six revolver can also be modified. No other brands of guns are being modified and we currently are not modifing any autopistols."

[Mas]

PeterB nailed it. The one "smart gun" that ever worked.

And naturally, never mentioned by those "smart gun" proponents whose actual agenda is to ban all other guns.

[TDA]

My fear is that this rationale would be compelling enough for many Judges to rule a State mandated requirement for same as a "reasonable restriction/regulation".

It’s always going to be wrong to store your handgun where unauthorized people have easy access to it. There’s not going to be a technical solution that makes that a great idea instead of a big mistake.

Also, I’m no Southnarc, but have they tried wrestling for the smartgun while using the app?

[JohnO]

"Smart gun" can't fire two rounds consecutively

https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/01/21/smart-gun-cant-fire-n54682

[Joe in PNG]

Smart guns are smart only to those too stupid to know how guns work.

The usual suspects proposing digital boondoggles to make guns 'smart' tend to forget that guns are all 19th century mechanical technology. Even H&K's Space Magic G11 is just clockwork.

So, all of that digital rigamarole has to make a mechanical thing do a thing somewhere in that 19th century mechanism to make things not work. And inside a very limited physical space. So, disabling the mechanism isn't going to be all that hard for those with a basic knowledge of firearms mechanics- nor will it be all that hard to get work-arounds.

Now, it could be argued that smart guns are just a disguised gun control plan, and I would give credence to that- but even then, it will be super extra hard to implement.

[TeeBee]

If someone has an idea they want to sell, let the market decide if it's viable. All these ideas come, and go. The free-market is working as intended, hence none of this technology has taken root.

The government should not make the technology mandatory. If there is enough demand for such technology, the manufacturers will adjust.

For any of my firearms that require me to keep them secured and readily accessible, such as my bedside gun (I have children that touch and explore everything), I don't trust electronic locks. I'm generally OK with electronic locks on storage devices that don't require immediate, relatively bomb-proof, access. I don't foresee "smart-gun" technology being something I will embrace, especially when it totally disables the firearm, or requires fingerprint, RFID/NFC, communication.

[FAS1]

Anyone surprised?


Last week, we lambasted reports of a new "smart gun" that Reuters raved about in a glowing "exclusive." Reuters reporter Daniel Trotta wrote that the third-generation prototype fired "without issue" during a live-fire demonstration for investors and the media.

Now though, additional footage of the event has since surfaced that shows the LodeStar Works gun couldn't manage to fire two rounds without an issue during one of the exercises.

Whoops.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/smart-gun-cant-fire-two-rounds-consecutively

https://twitter.com/Christie_Ileto/status/1483546131812519945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1483546131812519945%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fque ry%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FChristie_Ileto2Fstatu s2F1483546131812519945widget%3DTweet

[Joe in PNG]

Anyone surprised?

Let's see- we have an exclusive story written after a junket, featuring a glowing review of a new gun that doesn't actually work...

So, Reuters is going into the gun rag business now?

[Ed L]

Anyone surprised?



https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/smart-gun-cant-fire-two-rounds-consecutively

https://twitter.com/Christie_Ileto/status/1483546131812519945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1483546131812519945%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fque ry%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FChristie_Ileto2Fstatu s2F1483546131812519945widget%3DTweet

Fuck those Smart Gun guys.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

But practice safe gun?

Sorry. Smart guns will blow over. They are too expensive. Who will pay $1200 for a handgun anyway? Oops.

[Ed L]

I want an Iphone with the reliability of an AK47--not the other way around.