New Federal 357 Magnum 154 grain HST load

[JHC]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/07/federal-premium-hst-357-magnum/


"This new HST .357 Magnum load uses specially designed jacketed hollow point (JHP) projectiles. They were designed to defeat barriers without plugging up the hollow point. The JHP weighs 154-grains, finding the sweet spot between penetration and consistent bullet expansion. The nickel-plated case and high-performance primers give shooters assurances that their rounds will go off when they need them the most."

I'm not finding anything on it's velocity etc.

[RevolverRob]

Daddy Like.

Folks aren't going to like this, but I hope it's a pretty lazy load. Somewhere around 1250fps would be ideal.

[Joe Mac]

Daddy Like.

Folks aren't going to like this, but I hope it's a pretty lazy load. Somewhere around 1250fps would be ideal.

I'm going to double down on your lazy and hope it specs around 1000 from a short barrel. More low-recoil options for steel frame snubs would be nice.

[rjohnson4405]

Yeah, there are enough fast 357 loads, 9mm 147 gr HST is around 1000 fps, I think you guys are right on the money.

[psalms144.1]

I dunno. To keep up with the .30 Super Loud, they've got to load it to insane chamber pressures, I think.

I don't shoot any .357 Mag anymore, so no dog in the fight, but I'm guessing "the market" is going to clamor for MOAR VELOCITY!

[RevolverRob]

I'm going to double down on your lazy and hope it specs around 1000 from a short barrel. More low-recoil options for steel frame snubs would be nice.

I was thinking ~1200 from a 4". Typically .357 loses ~100fps per inch. So that'd put it right on 1000 out of a snub.

I got you covered...mostly cause I thought the same thing. ;)

[Lester Polfus]

I'm going to double down on your lazy and hope it specs around 1000 from a short barrel. More low-recoil options for steel frame snubs would be nice.

I just walked in the door from shooting 60 rounds through my brand new 640 Pro in the side yard, and that is exactly what I would like this load to be.


Not that we'll actually be able to buy it any time soon.

[JHC]

My apologies, I thought I included ".357" in the thread title. Meant to.

How interesting they landed at 154 grains though. Makes me think "beaver will shine again!"

[RevolverRob]

My apologies, I thought I included ".357" in the thread title. Meant to.

How interesting they landed at 154 grains though. Makes me think "beaver will shine again!"

Interesting to me is how I read, "154 grain HST" and thought, "Oh sweet, they finally did a .357 Mag HST!" -

Without needing to read the .357 part...I guess I just figured at 154-grains we were dealing with a .357" sized bullet...:confused: :D

[JHC]

And we don't need to score a case or half case to make sure it cycles!!!! :D

[Joe Mac]

I just walked in the door from shooting 60 rounds through my brand new 640 Pro in the side yard, and that is exactly what I would like this load to be.


Not that we'll actually be able to buy it any time soon.

Yep.. As far as I can tell, Federal has only done two runs of the .380 99 hydra-shok deep since introducing it 2 years ago. Much of my initial stash went to proofing it in my G42 and LCP-II, and I've been searching ever since. Just last month I found some for sale, and replenished my stash to 'adequate' levels.

[CZ Man]

Yep.. As far as I can tell, Federal has only done two runs of the .380 99 hydra-shok deep since introducing it 2 years ago. Much of my initial stash went to proofing it in my G42 and LCP-II, and I've been searching ever since. Just last month I found some for sale, and replenished my stash to 'adequate' levels.

Sadly I've heard Federal has discontinued both the .380 HST and the 38 SPL HST, and neither appears on their website:

https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/handgun/default.aspx

I was really pleased with the gel testing results I had with both of them, but unfortunately I'm down to my last few boxes of each.

[SeriousStudent]

Dang, I am sorry to see that 38 HST load go. :(

[Caballoflaco]

Dang, I am sorry to see that 38 HST load go. :(

It’s still on Federal premium’s website. It’s listed as currently unavailable, but so is some of their ammo that is new for this year, so maybe not.

https://www.federalpremium.com/search?q=.38&search-button=&lang=default


They still list the .380 there too.

https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hst-micro/11-P380HST1S.html

[SeriousStudent]

It’s still on Federal premium’s website. It’s listed as currently unavailable, but so is some of their ammo that is new for this year, so maybe not.

https://www.federalpremium.com/search?q=.38&search-button=&lang=default


They still list the .380 there too.

https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hst-micro/11-P380HST1S.html

Thank you, kind sir! I will have to snag some.

Thanks again for the help. :)

[BehindBlueI's]

My apologies, I thought I included ".357" in the thread title. Meant to.


Fixed.

[03RN]

I think it @ 1250fps is the sweet spot for 158...154.

I'd like to see it at minimum of 18" minimum for all barriers.

Untill then it's 158gr XTPs for me

[Navin Johnson]

Likely a hot load....cause ya know velocity....

[Norville]

The well regarded Silvertip is 145gr at 1280 or so? This could be similar. Or not.

[paherne]

What's the intended market for this round? It seems like it is as a duty round for LE. Are there any LE agencies still carrying .357 revolvers? I carry and shoot revolvers, but if you need a duty round for doing LE-type stuff, that argument has been long-settled that autopistols do it better.

[revchuck38]

Full-power .357 Mag 158-grain ammo factory specs are typically 1235 fps from a 4" barrel. 1250 fps wouldn't be a reduced load.

Federal has a habit of announcing a load, doing a small production run of it, and waiting a couple of years or more to do another run of it. I really want to try HydraShok Deep in .38 Special. They haven't produced it since before Covid.

It appears the .357 mag HST load is still vaporware at this point. I'll buy some and probably switch to it as soon as it's available, but I ain't holding my breath.

ETA: It doesn't show up on either Federal's LE or commercial websites or on Ammoseek.

[BehindBlueI's]

What's the intended market for this round? It seems like it is as a duty round for LE. Are there any LE agencies still carrying .357 revolvers? I carry and shoot revolvers, but if you need a duty round for doing LE-type stuff, that argument has been long-settled that autopistols do it better.

It's in their personal defense line-up, same as Punch and I would assume the market is the same as who's currently buying Hydra-shoks or Gold Dots or what-have-you for revolver carry. Me, for example.

[Velo Dog]

I'm not finding anything on it's velocity etc.

All of Federal's 158 grain loads have an advertised muzzle velocity of 1240 fps from a 4" revolver.
All of Federal's "Personal Defense" loadings in 357 Mag have over 500 foot pounds of energy including their "Low Recoil" Hydra-Shok option.
BTW, 500 foot pounds at the muzzle is also a requirement for handgun hunting deer in Illinois.

I think the 154 gr. bullet is at least partly a marketing gimmick, so expect the listed velocity to be 1210-1255 feet per second from a vented 4-inch test barrel.

[WDR]

.357 isn't primarily a carry gun for me, but I do have one that carry occasionally, usually when I'm hunting or otherwise woods/desert bumming. If this load penetrates on the deeper end of the scale, I'd consider it. That said, unless they sell it in 50 round boxes for less than $2/rd, I probably won't be interested. 20rd boxes infuriate me to no end, especially in auto pistol calibers. I understand they want to make money, not make me happy, sooo... sigh.

Not to mention the plastic 20rd boxes Federal uses suck to open. :rolleyes:

[03RN]

I wonder how much technology is needed to get a 158gr .357 to 18” through all the barriers.

I haven't seen standard sjhp or XTPs tested against all of them but I bet they'd do well.

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder how much technology is needed to get a 158gr .357 to 18” through all the barriers.

I haven't seen standard sjhp or XTPs tested against all of them but I bet they'd do well.

Not much at all, unless you mean no more than 18". I've seen a lot of through-and-through shots with .357 Magnum, and while it's a small sample size never saw a Critical Duty stay in a person.

[abu fitna]

And we don't need to score a case or half case to make sure it cycles!!!! :D

Function check for things like cylinder lockup due to bullet pull under recoil does require a few boxes at least... But then again, I think few folks are interested in the pain that comes from running these in an airweight.

[Archer1440]

Federal has a habit of announcing a load, doing a small production run of it, and waiting a couple of years or more to do another run of it. I really want to try HydraShok Deep in .38 Special. They haven't produced it since before Covid.


It might seem that way, but I bought a bunch of it in mid-November, with no drama. There were two different lot numbers among 10 boxes.

(I don’t know the mysteries of Federal’s lot numbers for this caliber, it’s different from the format on the one (.45 ACP) that I do understand- so I have no idea exactly what year(s) these were produced.

82584

[revchuck38]

It might seem that way, but I bought a bunch of it in mid-November, with no drama. There were two different lot numbers among 10 boxes.

82584

Cool! Where did you find it? I haven't seen it on Federal's website or ammoseek, but I could have looked at the wrong time.

[Archer1440]

Cool! Where did you find it? I haven't seen it on Federal's website or ammoseek, but I could have looked at the wrong time.

1. Midway. Ordered Nov. 8 and delivered Nov. 11, 2021 (looked it up in my order history). Was limited to 3 boxes. (I think that’s the first, darker lot number).
2. LGS in the 3rd week of November. The set aside a few boxes for me when it came in. They haven’t had any since.

Miwall shows it in stock as of this post, but I have never purchased from them and have no idea how they are to deal with.

[revchuck38]

1. Midway. Ordered Nov. 8 and delivered Nov. 11, 2021 (looked it up in my order history). Was limited to 3 boxes. (I think that’s the first, darker lot number).
2. LGS in the 3rd week of November. They set aside a few boxes for me when it came in. They haven’t had any since.

Miwall shows it in stock as of this post, but I have never purchased from them and have no idea how they are to deal with.

Thanks! I got two boxes, plus a box of Geco wadcutter. The prices are better than Midway, but not the shipping.

[FNFAN]

Miwall shows it in stock as of this post, but I have never purchased from them and have no idea how they are to deal with.

I’ve ordered from Miwall twice recently and was impressed with their speed of shipping the order. FWIW

[Velo Dog]

I'd like to see it at minimum of 18" minimum for all barriers.

The FBI's auto windshield test would be the toughest hard barrier. 14-16 inches would be EXCELLENT for an expanding duty/service handgun cartridge after looking at tests for HST, Gold Dot, G2, Critical Duty, Golden Saber Bonded, Ranger Bonded, "T" Series and Barnes TAC-XP

https://www.kiesler.com/SiteContent/catalogs/HSTInsertPoster.pdf
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/WinchesterRangerAmmo.gif
https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/downloads/catalogs/GoldDotPoster.pdf
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BARNES/Barnes_.45ACP_185gr_TAC-XP.pdf
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/self_defense_ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/9mm_HST_GS.htm

[Ed L]

Can someone tell me the muzzle velocity of this new load. I looked all over but could not find it.

thanks

[Lester Polfus]

Can someone tell me the muzzle velocity of this new load. I looked all over but could not find it.

thanks

If it's out there, I can't find it. I did quite a bit of poking around on the interwebs, and came up with nothing. We may have to wait for it to pop up on the Federal webpage.

[RevolverRob]

looking at tests for HST, Gold Dot, G2, Critical Duty, Golden Saber Bonded, Ranger Bonded, "T" Series and Barnes TAC-XP

So for .357 Magnum you can get:

Gold Dot
Barnes

___

That's the real beauty of them bringing out an HST. There is non-bonded Golden Saber, Ranger, and Critical Defense available in .357Magnum - but not the superior bonded bullets.

For me, I'm still rolling 125-grain Gold Dots until my stash runs dry. Then I'll probably switch to something with the Barnes bullet, unless Federal comes out with 50-round boxes of .357 HST.

[03RN]

So for .357 Magnum you can get:

Gold Dot
Barnes

___

That's the real beauty of them bringing out an HST. There is non-bonded Golden Saber, Ranger, and Critical Defense available in .357Magnum - but not the superior bonded bullets.

For me, I'm still rolling 125-grain Gold Dots until my stash runs dry. Then I'll probably switch to something with the Barnes bullet, unless Federal comes out with 50-round boxes of .357 HST.

I just finished loading another 300rds of 158gr XTPs. I think I'm up to 5-600. After that I've got a few hundred 125gr XTPs at the same 1225 fps which match the 125gr golden sabers that I have a few hundred of.

The XTPs really seam to make a perfect .357 bullet. The 140s are excellent as well and hold together at carbine velocity and expand from a 2.75" barrel. Same with all of them

[Lester Polfus]

I just finished loading another 300rds of 158gr XTPs. I think I'm up to 5-600. After that I've got a few hundred 125gr XTPs at the same 1225 fps which match the 125gr golden sabers that I have a few hundred of.

The XTPs really seam to make a perfect .357 bullet. The 140s are excellent as well and hold together at carbine velocity and expand from a 2.75" barrel. Same with all of them

Can you share what load you are using to duplicate the Golden Saber load? That's what I'm running in my 640 Pro, and I need to make some practice equivalents.

[03RN]

Can you share what load you are using to duplicate the Golden Saber load? That's what I'm running in my 640 Pro, and I need to make some practice equivalents.

It's the book max with be-86. I think its 9.1gr

[Velo Dog]

So for .357 Magnum you can get:

Gold Dot
Barnes

Hornady 135 gr. Critical Duty @ 1275 fps penetrates 14.1 inches after auto glass.

https://www.hornadyle.com/handgun-ammunition/357-mag-135-gr-flexlock#!/

[Velo Dog]

Old school 158 gr. Winchester Super-X JHP @ 1235 fps went 11.4" after auto glass, 13.9" after car door, and about 17-18 inches in the other FBI protocol tests.

[Lester Polfus]

It's the book max with be-86. I think its 9.1gr

Thank you.

[paherne]

1. Midway. Ordered Nov. 8 and delivered Nov. 11, 2021 (looked it up in my order history). Was limited to 3 boxes. (I think that’s the first, darker lot number).
2. LGS in the 3rd week of November. The set aside a few boxes for me when it came in. They haven’t had any since.

Miwall shows it in stock as of this post, but I have never purchased from them and have no idea how they are to deal with.

Miwall was excellent to deal with as a government customer. I will be going back to them as a private citizen. Good folks and good communication.

[revolvergeek]

And we don't need to score a case or half case to make sure it cycles!!!! :D

Well... I have a friend with a Coonan that might disagree with you. :p

If the velocity is where y'all are speculating I might buy several cases just to have one less thing to worry about the rest of my life! :cool:

[Lester Polfus]

Well... I have a friend with a Coonan that might disagree with you. :p

If the velocity is where y'all are speculating I might buy several cases just to have one less thing to worry about the rest of my life! :cool:

Me too. Even before the pandemic, most of the really good .38 Special loads like Gold Dot Short Barrel were only sporadically available, and the .357 Gold Dot Short Barrel was even worse. I may just say "ouch" and buy a supply that will last long enough to get me to the point where the only things my hands will tolerate will be wadcutters.

[Archer1440]

Miwall was excellent to deal with as a government customer. I will be going back to them as a private citizen. Good folks and good communication.

I’m sure you’re right, but their shipping charges are considerably out of line from the suppliers I normally use. Pity.

[Joe Mac]

So...this is vaguely interesting, although likely a mistake.

I was browsing the 2022 Vista LE catalog:

https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/downloads/catalogs/LE309_2022LEcatalog_singles.pdf

See pages 10 and 12 -- there is a .357 Mag 125 grain HST load listed, with a velocity of 1360 from a 4" barrel (same as the 125 .357 SIG load next door...). The load number listed, P357HST1S, is the same one appearing on the (mockup image?) pic of the 154 grain HST box. Possibilities:

- There are both 125 and 154 grain .357 Mag HST loads emerging, one from the LE line and one Personal Defense, and they didn't have the load numbers fully sorted at catalog time.

- The 125 grain load listed in the catalog is an error, with the 125 SIG ballistics copied and pasted. The 154 is the only one coming out, but the specs were not ready for the catalog layout.

The latter seems more likely, as marketing a LE .357 Mag load would reach about 12 cops at this point. (I say that with fondness, having started my career with a .357 in my duty holster, and knowing that those 12 cops are probably still quite dangerous.)

Thoughts?

[Stephanie B]

So...this is vaguely interesting, although likely a mistake.

I was browsing the 2022 Vista LE catalog:

https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/downloads/catalogs/LE309_2022LEcatalog_singles.pdf

See pages 10 and 12 -- there is a .357 Mag 125 grain HST load listed, with a velocity of 1360 from a 4" barrel (same as the 125 .357 SIG load next door...). The load number listed, P357HST1S, is the same one appearing on the (mockup image?) pic of the 154 grain HST box. Possibilities:

- There are both 125 and 154 grain .357 Mag HST loads emerging, one from the LE line and one Personal Defense, and they didn't have the load numbers fully sorted at catalog time.

- The 125 grain load listed in the catalog is an error, with the 125 SIG ballistics copied and pasted. The 154 is the only one coming out, but the specs were not ready for the catalog layout.

The latter seems more likely, as marketing a LE .357 Mag load would reach about 12 cops at this point. (I say that with fondness, having started my career with a .357 in my duty holster, and knowing that those 12 cops are probably still quite dangerous.)

Thoughts?

I'm interested in the 154gr cartridge. It'd be great out of a L-frame and is heavy enough to probably not pose a problem for K-frames.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I'm really interested in any modern upgrade to .357 Magnum ammo. Would like to see some correctly done, independent testing of it. I have access to some Texas whitetails that should be impressed with it.

[revchuck38]

I'm really interested in any modern upgrade to .357 Magnum ammo. Would like to see some correctly done, independent testing of it. I have access to some Texas whitetails that should be impressed with it.

Let us know when you get to test it. We'll be over to help you dispose of the backstrap. :)

[DISCO]

P357HST1S 357 Magnum 154gr 1340fps from a 4in barrel.

On Page 44

http://https://www.federalpremium.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-VistaFederalSharedLibrary/default/vd5051f299f79146229507233809e6144584db865/contentDocuments/catalog/Federal-Catalog-2022_website_sm.pdf

[03RN]

I'm really interested in any modern upgrade to .357 Magnum ammo. Would like to see some correctly done, independent testing of it. I have access to some Texas whitetails that should be impressed with it.

What would you like to see? A full power load or more like a .357 - like the golden sabers, GD SB, and the Winchester pdx1?

Do you want it to stay inside the 12-18" or do you want a little more?

[Joe Mac]

P357HST1S 357 Magnum 154gr 1340fps from a 4in barrel.

On Page 44

http://https://www.federalpremium.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-VistaFederalSharedLibrary/default/vd5051f299f79146229507233809e6144584db865/contentDocuments/catalog/Federal-Catalog-2022_website_sm.pdf

Another sloppy typo, I believe. The velocity chart goes on to list speed at 25 and 50 yards as 1127 and 999, incongruous with a MV of 1340 (and a bizarrely precipitous drop between 25 and 50). No bullet of similar weight sheds velocity that fast.

Of course, the listed energies are based on this impossible progression, so...come on, Federal. Edit your crap more carefully.

[JonInWA]

I’ve ordered from Miwall twice recently and was impressed with their speed of shipping the order. FWIW

I've gotten our organizational ammunition for the past 2 years from Miwall; they're excellent to deal with, flexible, and very fast to ship. Excellent accountability and shipment tracking too.

Best, Jon

[Velo Dog]

I think it @ 1250fps is the sweet spot for 158...154.

I'd like to see it at minimum of 18" minimum for all barriers.

I agree that 1250 fps from a 4" barrel revolver would be very useful for both hunting and self defense.
The recoil/blast and POA/POI could closely match typical factory158 grain practice ammo.
I would be happy enough with great expansion and 16-18 inches of penetration in FBI testing.
Sadly, one of the best deep penetrators appears to be discontinued.

From DocGKR

The best modern .357 Mag loading we have tested has been the Winchester 180 gr Partition Gold (S357P):



.357 Mag Win 180 gr Partition Gold (S357P) from S&W 686 4”

BG: vel=1075, pen=18.1”, RD=.57”, RW=171.1gr

4 layer denim: vel=1090 f/s, pen=20+”, RD=0.53, RW=175.6gr

auto windshield: vel=1072, pen=20+”, RD=0.39, RW=178.0gr

[revchuck38]

Velo Dog - Where did you get that from, and did he mention any other .357 Mag loads?

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog - Where did you get that from, and did he mention any other .357 Mag loads?

https://www.mp-pistol.com/threads/docgkr-357-ammo-question.11919/

For information on a load like the Winchester 125 gr. PDX1 Defender in 357 Magnum, it might be worth looking at the available numbers for Winchester's 125 gr. Ranger Bonded in 357 SIG. Although results wouldn't necessarily be identical, one could get a rough estimate of potential performance.

[Velo Dog]

Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip went 12.85 and 15.9 inches in autoglass testing.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34049-Winchester-145-silvertip/page3

[Velo Dog]

Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok @ 1183 fps penetrated 24.7" and expanded to 0.37" in bare gel; 34.50" and 0.46" after heavy clothing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130530005905/http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/357magnum.htm

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/throwback-thursday-the-fbi-ammo-tests/
83180

[TiroFijo]

Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok @ 1183 fps penetrated 24.7" and expanded to 0.37" in bare gel; 34.50" and 0.46" after heavy clothing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130530005905/http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/357magnum.htm

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/throwback-thursday-the-fbi-ammo-tests/
83180

That's very useful IF your foes are attacking in líne...

[Archer1440]

Optics planet is listing it as shipping in 7-14 days… at close to fifty clams for a box of twenty.

Think I will wait a while for more competitive pricing from a more reliable supplier, personally.

[03RN]

That's very useful IF your foes are attacking in líne...


https://youtu.be/U6tzqlxOr2U

[Lester Polfus]

I've been checking Federal's website for this every couple of weeks. Looks like it is vaporware.

But hey, you can buy .30 Super Carry if you want.

[03RN]

I've been checking Federal's website for this every couple of weeks. Looks like it is vaporware.

But hey, you can buy .30 Super Carry if you want.

For crying out loud they don't even need a new bullet.

https://youtu.be/DUS_VHoSrBY

[Lester Polfus]

For crying out loud they don't even need a new bullet.

https://youtu.be/DUS_VHoSrBY

If they loaded the 147 grain HST bullet in a.357 case going 950 fps or so from my 640 Pro I would buy CASES of that shit.

[OlongJohnson]

Just make it .357. I don't actually know, but it seems like a set of tooling to run an existing bullet design 0.002" larger would be pretty straightforward.

One problem I can see with doing this is if they sold components and people mistakenly loaded .357 in 9mm, because they weigh the same, look the same, etc.

It would make a lot of sense at least to start development by making a .357 bullet at 158 grains by just stretching the 147gr 9mm HST however much that required and keeping all the metallurgy and forming the same.

[LockedBreech]

I love HST but the .357 Magnum isn't really a round I'm looking for improvement in. I have a few boxes of 125-grain Speer Gold Dot and Federal 357B on hand and I am highly confident they will do the job.

However, while I'm not a very gung-ho .357 Magnum shooter I do understand some people really prefer the 125 range and some people really prefer the 158 range, so I'm glad there are options.

[03RN]

Just make it .357. I don't actually know, but it seems like a set of tooling to run an existing bullet design 0.002" larger would be pretty straightforward.

One problem I can see with doing this is if they sold components and people mistakenly loaded .357 in 9mm, because they weigh the same, look the same, etc.

It would make a lot of sense at least to start development by making a .357 bullet at 158 grains by just stretching the 147gr 9mm HST however much that required and keeping all the metallurgy and forming the same.

Or make a cannelure so it could be properly crimped at the proper length.

[Lester Polfus]

I love HST but the .357 Magnum isn't really a round I'm looking for improvement in. I have a few boxes of 125-grain Speer Gold Dot and Federal 357B on hand and I am highly confident they will do the job.

However, while I'm not a very gung-ho .357 Magnum shooter I do understand some people really prefer the 125 range and some people really prefer the 158 range, so I'm glad there are options.

I think the biggest room for growth in the .357 round is for folks with J and K frame revolvers who want a "street load" that is hotter than .38+P but not quite full Rhino Roller.

[revchuck38]

I think the biggest room for growth in the .357 round is for folks with J and K frame revolvers who want a "street load" that is hotter than .38+P but not quite full Rhino Roller.

There are a couple out there - R-P 125-grain Golden Sabre and Speer 135-grain short-barrel Gold Dot. They're just usually unavailable.

[Lester Polfus]

There are a couple out there - R-P 125-grain Golden Sabre and Speer 135-grain short-barrel Gold Dot. They're just usually unavailable.

Yup. I've got a small quantity of the Golden Saber load, and have alerts set for the next time Gold Dots come in stock at a bunch of different places.

The Golden Saber load has been removed from the Remington Ammo website, which doesn't bode well.

[RevolverRob]

I think the biggest room for growth in the .357 round is for folks with J and K frame revolvers who want a "street load" that is hotter than .38+P but not quite full Rhino Roller.

I picked up 135-grain Critical Duty from Hornady a little while back, it's listed at 1275fps from an 8" barrel. Pretty mild overall from a 4" gun, though certainly spicier than a .38+P.

[03RN]

Yup. I've got a small quantity of the Golden Saber load, and have alerts set for the next time Gold Dots come in stock at a bunch of different places.

The Golden Saber load has been removed from the Remington Ammo website, which doesn't bode well.

Maybe get it milled for 9mm/moonclips?

[Lester Polfus]

I picked up 135-grain Critical Duty from Hornady a little while back, it's listed at 1275fps from an 8" barrel. Pretty mild overall from a 4" gun, though certainly spicier than a .38+P.

That's on my list too.

[Archer1440]

Rather than start a new post, thought it would be worth mentioning that the 154 HST is finally available. At about two bucks a pop, it might not be worth it for some, but it does look like performance is as one would expect from the product line. Just shy of the rated 1340 fps from my 4.25” Pythons. Expansion looks as expected in the gel testing I have seen as well.

[4given]

Yup. I've got a small quantity of the Golden Saber load, and have alerts set for the next time Gold Dots come in stock at a bunch of different places.

The Golden Saber load has been removed from the Remington Ammo website, which doesn't bode well.

Shows it I stock now in 20 round boxes. Ammo seek shows several outlets with it in sock

[Totem Polar]

Nevermind, necro.

[Archer1440]

Some data for those interested:

Federal HST 154 .357 Magnum with an on-the-box claim of 1340 FPS from a 4" barrel.

Tested with Colt Python 4.25", velocities recorded with Garmin XERO C1 chronograph, 70º F at 4450 feet elevation.

5 shot averages: 1309.8 FPS, S=64.7, SD= 22.1, PF ~204

Notes:

The HST was much softer shooting than Federal 159 JSP (1272 fps) despite being about 37 FPS faster- zero visible flash indoors- no appreciable smoke- cases were very clean- no signs of primer smearing or other pressure related issues.

Softer and less snappy than Hornady Critical Defense 135, which clocks at 1464.4 FPS, S=57, SD=19.8 but runs ~20 PF lower.

Consistent 4" 5-shot groups shooting DA at 25 yards with a cadence of 1 shot per second. This cadence is too fast for the Garmin so the speed readings are from a separate 5-shot group shot at the speed the chronograph could calculate the velocity. POA=POI for my sights at 25, which was a nice surprise (Hornady Critical Defense shoots quite a bit lower)

The exceptionally soft feel of the HST is puzzling to me, given the close mass and definite velocity advantage over the "fireball producing" Fed JSP 158's with their very similar PF.

[revchuck38]

Damn, Archer1440, just when I had decided to give up .357 Magnum for a carry load due to recoil, you come up with this. Now I'm bamboozled. :rolleyes:

[Archer1440]

Damn, Archer1440, just when I had decided to give up .357 Magnum for a carry load due to recoil, you come up with this. Now I'm bamboozled. :rolleyes:

Considering how much reading PF threads has cost me over the years, it's only right that I return the favor ;)


Also, typo above- that Hornady XTP load is 125, not 135. Fat-fingers.

[SwampDweller]

Some data for those interested:

Federal HST 154 .357 Magnum with an on-the-box claim of 1340 FPS from a 4" barrel.

Tested with Colt Python 4.25", velocities recorded with Garmin XERO C1 chronograph, 70º F at 4450 feet elevation.

5 shot averages: 1309.8 FPS, S=64.7, SD= 22.1, PF ~204

Notes:

The HST was much softer shooting than Federal 159 JSP (1272 fps) despite being about 37 FPS faster- zero visible flash indoors- no appreciable smoke- cases were very clean- no signs of primer smearing or other pressure related issues.

Softer and less snappy than Hornady Critical Defense 135, which clocks at 1464.4 FPS, S=57, SD=19.8 but runs ~20 PF lower.

Consistent 4" 5-shot groups shooting DA at 25 yards with a cadence of 1 shot per second. This cadence is too fast for the Garmin so the speed readings are from a separate 5-shot group shot at the speed the chronograph could calculate the velocity. POA=POI for my sights at 25, which was a nice surprise (Hornady Critical Defense shoots quite a bit lower)

The exceptionally soft feel of the HST is puzzling to me, given the close mass and definite velocity advantage over the "fireball producing" Fed JSP 158's with their very similar PF.
Very interesting. I wonder how the .357 Mag HST performs in the FBI battery of tests?