Spare magazine or spare gun

[GJM]

Over time, I have come to realize that a spare double stack magazine carried behind the hip prints more than my AIWB pistol. That led me to carrying a spare magazine AIWB in a Mastermind or equivalent soft mag carrier. The magazine takes little extra space, and maybe even balances out the pistol in weight and printing. That works well for my manner of dress, which is a light and knife in my front left pocket and iPhone in my front right pocket.

All this BUG talk has me wondering about what I carry. Ankle holsters are out between the 90 minutes a day I average hiking, and shorts for much of the year. My pockets are full, and my pants aren’t BUG friendly by design and fabric.

Realistically for EDC, as opposed to special circumstances, I can carry the BUG at 11 o’clock or an extra magazine. The extra pistol isn’t much harder than the spare magazine. I can make an argument for mag or BUG. When things like a 365 are available, the BUG becomes space efficient and quite capable.

Thoughts?

[beenalongtime]

From what little I know, in the revolver days, it was called something like a NY reload, to carry another revolver.

There are times that LEO's carry a back up piece on them, as well as not and having their back ups in their vehicles. (uniformed, detective, etc. depends). My view is you need to be situationally aware, when having another gun as you may or may not think it prints as well as someone watching you, or if you are in a situation where kid come up and grab you. (remembering when my nieces were little and ran to grab their LEO relative and one got their hand on the gun instead of the person. The officers hand shot down on the gun so there was no change they could get it out while we pulled the kid back and explained let parent get deworked)

[4RNR]

I'm in tshirts and jeans all summer regardless of the heat and unless I bend down to touch my toes no one sees the extra mag, or the G17. I've tried BUGs out of curiosity and not for me. I don't do pocket carry, not even my cell phone. Uncomfortable. Adding ANOTHER Iwb holster is just as uncomfortable but in other ways. Unless I can do like a dual shoulder holster or cowboy rig I'm not carrying a backup gun. Most people think it's overkill carrying a G17 with a reload, especially where I live!

But in the end I think whats really relevant to me is not the comfort, I'm sure I can buy enough holsters to find the right one. What is is the lack of grips on BUGs. That's one thing that can't be overcome

[Oldherkpilot]

I always carry a spare mag for my primary pistol. On the rare occasion I carry a BUG, its either in an ankle holster or a Kramer shirt. I admit that neither is very fast to access but faster than running back to the car on two knee replacements.

[Duces Tecum]

I carry a pair of Tony's in the appendix / spleen position(s). See link below. Seems to work out ok. Benefits from a dark untucked polo shirt in the summer and dark sweaters in colder weather. It's been about 18 months now and I've found drawing from concealed low-riding holsters retard my first hit at seven yards to about 2 seconds. That's probably not a good thing, being a net adverse change of about 0.5 seconds. On the other hand, one of the things I like is that if for some reason one arm / shoulder / gun becomes hors de combat, there's another one still in service.

Link: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?43110-Purchase-Report-JMCK-NPE-Holster&p=1069765#post1069765


Duces

[Doc_Glock]

Thoughts?

Reloads suck and having a separate gun accessed a different way from your primary available seems reasonable.

For me it is one in pocket and one on belt.

[1911Nut]

I've tried a Ruger LCR and a Glock G43 as BUG, but both were too uncomfortable for me compared to a spare mag or two.

Of course when I tried it, I carried my primary with one spare mag if it was a 9mm or two spare mags if it was a 45.

Then, of course, I carried a spare speed strip with the LCR or a single spare mag with the G43.

I decided the primary + one or two mags fit my needs/comfort zone better.

I just cannot imagine carrying my primary with ZERO spare mags, and instead, carrying a BUG with ZERO spare mags or speed strips.

Too set in my ways and/or dull witted to change, I guess.

[blues]

Even when I was still working I rarely carried two guns but for certain circumstances.

I'm a spare mag sorta guy...or if just walking around home and environs with the 642, maybe a speed strip in pocket.

I'm not saying it's overkill, but for me...absent those "circumstances", it's just not gonna happen on any sort of regular basis.

[Rex G]

The JMCK mag carriers, angled to match the inguinal crease, are a very, VERY, nice way to carry extra magazines. In my case, 3+ decades of carrying spare ammo, to the left of the duty belt buckle, have programmed me to reach there, for a reload, anyway. During the panic-demic, I reverted to revolving pistols, except for my Seecamp LWS-32,) but if/when I return to regularly toting autos, as “primary’ weapons, I am likely to wear one or more mags at the inguinal crease(s).

My mag carriers, on my duty belt, were not angled, of course, being straight vertical, but angled is more ergonomic on the draw, requiring less wrist articulation, so make sense for concealed carry.

The option of the longer mag body adds stability to forward-of-the-hip IWB carry; the same principle as using a longer holster body, even if carrying a compact pistol.

[Rex G]

But, yes, of course, a spare pistol makes sense, too. It is my usual norm, at present, as a pocketed Seecamp LWS-32 is a near-daily thing, regardless of what other weapons I am carrying, and the Seecamp is almost never my only weapon. I am usually wearing Patagonia Quandary trousers, which I believe are also sold as shorts. These have belt loops, which accommodate the same belts and holsters I wear with jeans and VertX trousers, but the fabric breathes and wicks well, enabling me to wear long trousers, in the heat, rather than shorts.

Edited to add: When/If I ever resume normal range visits, I will be vetting a new Gen3 G26, and some new-to-me Third-Gen S&W DA/SA single-column-mag 9mm autos, so will again have compact auto options.

Edited again, to add: The Quandary trousers fit too closely, at the ankle, to conceal an ankle gun.

[rcbusmc24]

Ever since I got back from revolver round up this year I've been carrying a 640 Pro AIWB with two 6 rnd speed strips in my back left pants pocket (I'm left handed) since I guess I am a optimist.... I like to toss the 642 in a simply rugged pocket holster as well, I like the "tactic" of standing around talking to people non threateningly with my left hand nonchalantly in my pants pocket... Working a gun counter for my buddy part time since I retired from active duty makes this useful every so often.

[blues]

Ever since I got back from revolver round up this year I've been carrying a 640 Pro AIWB with two 6 rnd speed strips in my back left pants pocket (I'm left handed) since I guess I am a optimist.... I like to toss the 642 in a simply rugged pocket holster as well, I like the "tactic" of standing around talking to people non threateningly with my left hand nonchalantly in my pants pocket... Working a gun counter for my buddy part time since I retired from active duty makes this useful every so often.

Congrats on the retirement, R. Did I miss the official announcement? (I knew you were working up to it.)

Beers / bourbon / single malt on me when you make your way out west to the mountains.

[CHNEAL]

Ive thought of this several times over the years and for me the reload is preferred to the BUG. I went back to the G19 from a trip down smaller is better because I just don’t shoot the smalls well. I am pretty sure I can reload the G19 as fast or faster then dropping it and pulling a small pistol and when I am done with the reload I have my fighting pistol in my hand not an “ its better then nothing” pistol.
I do see the bug as a great advantage if you end up with a breakage or out of service malfunction but my experience with the G19 says that’s just to rare of an occurrence to entertain and Ill drive myself bat shit crazy trying to be ready for every possible scenario ….

Stay Safe
Clay

[steve]

I think it depends on the circumstances of carry. The main reason for a second gun is if your first fails or gets taken away. If the reason for your second gun is a reload what are you going to do with your first gun? Are you going to shoot to slide lock and drop it going for your second gun? Are you going be able to use it partially, re-holster it and get your second full gun into action? Whatever you plan to do you are always bringing a gun to some kind of engagement and you are going to have to be responsible for it, where it goes and whose hands it falls into.

Many moons ago before I retired I carried two handguns. I was more worried about my gun failing or being taken away than a lack of reloads. As a Watch Commander I jumped a lot of calls and I carried a P225 and a second P225 with a total of 6 magazines (One in each gun, four on the belt). I shot the P225 very well and had to ditch them when we went to the P239. But I did the same thing with the P239, I had an issued one and carried one as a backup with 4 additional magazines. I liked the idea of having the same guns as backups for familiarity and using the same magazines. Being in uniform that made sense to me. (We were also issued Sig P226's but I liked the single stacks).

If you can figure out what to do with gun number one while you go for gun number two and it is as fast as a reload then why not.

[vcdgrips]

My first thought is given the hundreds of thousands of reps you have burned in for a reload, you would be better served by a reload v. a second gun given who you are and what you do.

[ST911]

I think reload vs BUG is a more viable discussion for the revolver than for a semi-auto. The size, weight, and simplicity of a single magazine fast outruns the merits of a second gun for the typical gun toter.


Reloads suck and having a separate gun accessed a different way from your primary available seems reasonable. For me it is one in pocket and one on belt.

If you differentiated revo from SA, I missed it. If applicable to SA... Reloads suck for whom, how, and when? When you put your reload vs pocket draw on a timer, what are the results? When a pocket gun is needed from an unconventional position, what then?

[Duelist]

I don’t see carrying a second gun as necessarily because a person ran out of rounds and wanted to go for a second gun rather than reload the primary, but as options:

DB has written frequently of carrying a semiauto and a pocket revolver, not as a backup but as a second option - draw from the pocket when AIWB or SmartCarry draw isn’t the best option. Mike Pipes, who’s been to every revolver roundup, carries as many as 5 jframes at the same time for right and left hand access from various positions, not necessarily as a plan to use a second or third revolver instead of reloading the first one - he is competent at reloading them, I can attest, from watching him do it at this last Revolver Roundup.

When I carry more than one, it is again, not so much as a “backup” but as a second (or third) gun. One is in my right front pocket, an additional one might be on the belt or in a SmartCarry or shoulder holster, and another might be on the ankle. Walking or standing around with my hand in my pocket is very normal, with the option to go to a belt line draw, and then in a seated or other compromised position for an ankle draw.

[Blades]

I'm a nobody, so what I do is basically "playing". I don't recommend anything I do to anyone. I'm pre-novice.
I have the Phlster Engima, so my Glock is independent of my jeans and carried appendix. So I've added my j-frame beside my extra magazine IWB on the left side -- to try it out, see how it feels on my belt. It works, I've been able to do my daily job but when I get home, I remove the j-frame and extra magazine. It starts to bug me after nine hours; I think it's the cheap holster for my j-frame. A better holster would increase comfort. Also, losing weight would help. I'm overweight, and either I have to buy new jeans, or get off my ass and start walking my dog. The cheaper solution is walking.
All my rambling to say the Engima makes it easy to carry a second gun on your belt.

[KellyinAvon]

Spare mag in a spare gun? You do you. I'm not a LEO, if I was a spare gun and spare mags and a rifle would seem appropriate. A sub-compact 9mm with a spare mag is with me on my trip to and from work (14 miles from the burbs to a major city.) Only once I wished I had a spare gun. Getting off work at 2000 (or 8pm if you prefer) in late-Spring 2020 and there were riots? The spare I wanted wasn't a handgun.

[TC215]

I believe Chuck Whitlock carries a BUG on his waistline.

[TGS]

GJM, I believe you're objectively more capable with a BUG vs a reload.

If you find them to be the same encumbrance or the BUG to be even less of an encumbrance, I'd run with that 100%. Personally, I don't find them to be anywhere near the same encumbrance, so I run a spare mag.

[secondstoryguy]

Even when off duty I rarely carry a spare mag unless I'm going to specific cities (like Houston, San Antonio, Dallas) or places (the mall, concerts, or any other place that might be the target of an active shooter). Based on the data I've seen 10+ rounds should get me through 99.999% of the defensive situations I would find myself in even as an off duty officer.

No BUG for me....

[MickAK]

You can vet a whole other gun or a metal box with a spring in it.

I choose box with a spring in it.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Why is this an "either/or" proposition?



I believe Chuck Whitlock carries a BUG on his waistline.
He does...usually...when out and about on his own time.

TC215 may be referring to this:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44022-quot-Custom-quot-ain-t-no-BS!&p=1095724&viewfull=1#post1095724

Understand that I am a peace officer in a southern coastal area, where getting "made" being armed has little to no negative consequence. Also, I can...and do...dress like a (beach) bum on my own time, which consists of a T-shirt and unbuttoned cover shirt, paired with shorts and sandals, or jeans and hikers or cowboy boots. This does, in fact, "blend" reasonably here. I am a huge believer in consistency as much as practicable, so haven't used ankle carry in a long time, although there are a couple in the holster bin.

Why a BUG?
I've been present when a co-worker's Glock 22 broke on the range. Not jammed/malfunctioned...BROKE! Rear frame rails snapped off. Ain't no fixing that in the middle of a fight. As the de facto (certified) agency armorer, I did a little digging. His gun was one of four in our inventory in the affected serial number range....one had been used in an OIS about a month prior, and one was in my holster. So...Why a BUG? Because shit happens.

As the late, great Pat Rogers stated: mission drives the gear train.

If the BUG is on my belt, then I have a spare mag for the primary on the belt, and a spare for the BUG in a pocket. If the BUG is in the pocket, there are usually 2 spares for the primary and none for the BUG. In any event, I'm also toting two lights and, usually, two blades, with one available to either hand. I'm a fat little guy, and wear relaxed-fit Duluth shorts and jeans, and have figured out how to make this work...for ME. YMMV, and, probably, does to a greater or lesser extent.

[Hambo]

I don’t see carrying a second gun as necessarily because a person ran out of rounds and wanted to go for a second gun rather than reload the primary, but as options:

DB has written frequently of carrying a semiauto and a pocket revolver, not as a backup but as a second option - draw from the pocket when AIWB or SmartCarry draw isn’t the best option. Mike Pipes, who’s been to every revolver roundup, carries as many as 5 jframes at the same time for right and left hand access from various positions, not necessarily as a plan to use a second or third revolver instead of reloading the first one - he is competent at reloading them, I can attest, from watching him do it at this last Revolver Roundup.

When I carry more than one, it is again, not so much as a “backup” but as a second (or third) gun. One is in my right front pocket, an additional one might be on the belt or in a SmartCarry or shoulder holster, and another might be on the ankle. Walking or standing around with my hand in my pocket is very normal, with the option to go to a belt line draw, and then in a seated or other compromised position for an ankle draw.

There have been a couple really good threads about this if anyone cares to dig them up.

[Oldherkpilot]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but occasionally when i carry a BUG, it's actually a LWG (Lazy Wife Gun). Its not glamorous work but it keeps me on the payroll.

[Tensaw]

I’m gonna butcher this, but in the recent podcast with Bolke et. al., seems like med gear won out for most over even a spare mag. With the lone exception being Mr. Bolke because, if I recall correctly, he is a shit magnet :D.

[Whirlwind06]

Since man bags have become acceptable thing to have on your person, I have thought about using one to carry a bug.
I'm aware of the problem of off body carry, so if I went that route it would have to be a shoulder bag across the body. Something that I wouldn't be inclined to take off when I sit down.

[GJM]

To use an aircraft analogy, a single engine is usually simpler and more efficient. However, the day that single engine fails, the second engine can be a life saver.

Carrying a long gun, it feels normal to carry a second gun, in the form of a handgun. Out and about with my wife, there is a second gun. By myself, depending upon circumstances a second gun is something I ponder.

[ssc45]

I carry at least one if not two spare mags. It is more for malfunction issues. Some jams are easier to clear by ripping out a mag. I have seen many mags malfunction with cocked followers or stuck springs. I have seen baseplates break off and have seen glock mags that became inoperable.

Lastly, I have trained/practiced more for malfunction clearance and reloads vs employing a BUG.

Cheers, Steve

[Clusterfrack]

The backcountry is where I carry a 15 or 17 round auto and at least 1 reload. I would way rather continue to use a much more capable handgun by reloading than fall back on a BUG.

[MVS]

When a patrolman I was pretty gung ho and carried my primary, my issued back up on my ankle and another back up in my pocket. They weren't really back ups but alternate guns. The one in the pocket was for traffic stops, the one on the ankle was in large part because I spent a lot of time in a patrol car at slow speeds in high crime areas and being left handed access and easy presentation to my belt gun was limited. Nowadays as a regular guy I like the idea of carrying a second gun, but since I don't wear uniform trousers anymore I hate pocket carry and not being a real big guy (6'0" 175 lbs) other methods just aren't that comfortable.