P226, best DA/SA ever?

[GJM]

This is an early Christmas present for a forum member. Kidding aside, the 226 has had a lot going for it, for a long time.

A dovetailed front sight. Tapered magazines that go in the magwell easily. MecGar mags available. A design that supports an optic, first direct milled, and now with factory slides. Great accuracy and reliability. Plenty of accessory support, as in holsters, sights and grips. A short reset trigger early on. Gray Guns support. Right at the height of "Cohen product improving," I bought a new one and ran it 10,000 rounds without a stoppage with just an occasional pass of a bore snake and squirt of oil.

Oh, did I mention Todd really likes them.

[MGW]

Yes. But there are some drunk Italians that might fight you for those comments.

Kidding aside I like the 226 a lot. I’ve put a ton of rounds through them. They’re tough, reliable, easy to strip down and put back together, lots of sight options, super accurate. They really conceal pretty well too.

The triggers can’t be worked to be as light as a 92 but it doesn’t hold them back. They don’t recoil as flat as a 92 but I can shoot every drill and test with a 226 better than I can with a 92. If I could only have one gun a 226 would be really high on the list.

Edit to add I’m curious to see how spicy the comments get.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m willing to accept the assertion, and would even expand it to the majority of the SIG TDA line. I was a S&W third generation guy back in the day, but the SIGs are far superior in just about every way.

And Berettas are maiali grassi.

[JAH 3rd]

I agree with the points that GJM made. The 226 has a great history in civilian and combat use. I think “the best” is end user’s experience. It does give one a starting point for pistol consideration.

[Borderland]

I've never owned one but I've shot a few, one with a factory RDS. I prefer single stack Sigs but if there was one single model for gun of the last century it would have to be a P226. The military didn't want it initially because of cost, but then they had to have it anyway.

[45dotACP]

Maybe in the 90s and early 2000s...

https://youtu.be/ta41xU-tkFA

Nah all jokes aside, the 226 was one of my favorite TDA pistols and if I hadn't found a LTT 92, I probably would have just gone with a Sig and never thought twice about it.

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[SecondsCount]

All of the P226s I have owned ran great. I'm down to one now, a German build that I bought new in the mid 90s.

In the 2000s, there were a lot of Glock vs Sig threads and Sig would almost always come out on top as the preferred choice. Sig fumbled the quality control ball and the Glock aftermarket took off which pushed Sig to the back of the bus.

[Rmiked]

I own a Beretta 92A1, and Dan Wesson Specialist 1911. Before the 1911, I owned a SIG P226 MK25. The common element here is metal frame and exposed hammer. Of course the 1911 is Single Action only. All 3 have the military history connection. I bought the SIG 226 because from what I read the Beretta only won out in the contest for the military contract due to lower cost. And I was intrigued how good the SIG was so I bought one. It is a fantastic pistol. I actually shot it better than the Beretta but only slightly. I sold it to help pay for the Dan Wesson. I regret selling it and may get another one. I am not a fan of SIG management but that doesn’t detract from the design and functionality of the 226. My favorite is the Beretta 92 and the A1 has the dovetail front sight. I like the open slide non-tilting barrel design utilizing the locking block. Either one will do the job in excellent fashion. The endorsement of Ernest Langdon (fantastic triggers) and Bill Wilson of the Beretta 92 variants only makes the 92 easier to love. But the 226 is awesome.

[cornstalker]

I shot a 226 Legion RX at a Sig demo day at the gun club. I thought it was an absolutely amazing pistol. In the short period of time that I had a hold of it, I did not learn how to effectively manipulate the slide release. Damn the short thumbs...

[psalms144.1]

I humped one on duty, in plain clothes, for about four years. It was heavy, accurate, heavy, reliable, heavy, soft shooting, heavy, had good sights, heavy, had a great trigger, and was heavy. The only issue I had with mine is it was heavy. Did I mention it was heavy?

Kidding aside, I took my personal P226 to FLETC's "Reactive Shooting Instructor Training Program" in about 2005, a ran well north of 3,000 rounds through it in what amounted to 3.5 days of shooting. It never bobbled, and it shot so much more accurately, even at insane "go as fast as you can" trigger mashing speed, than any other pistol on the line (mostly 229s and Glocks, back then).

Being a factory certified "Sig Classic" armorer, I absolutely shudder at the thought of even trying to detail strip one again. I still have nightmares of the "final exam" at the course where every student's detail stripped training gun was dumped, in component parts, into a variety of bins at the front of the room. The test was you had to come forward, ONCE, and pick every part you thought you needed to rebuild the pistol. If you missed a part, or took an extra, you were a no-go. Then you got to go tinker the pieces and roll pins back together - and it better be right!

But, if you told me I could only have one semiauto pistol, and it had to be a 9mm DA/SA, I'd take a pre-2005 P226 over pretty much anything else I can think of.

[tlong17]

They’re ok. 92 though :)

[EVP]

I have always liked sig 226s. Especially the older ones.

But the only one I really would want are the older x5s that were built in Germany and were priced like a custom 1911.

Shot a SAO one and it was awesome. But on the same note these Langdon 92s,CZs, and even HK(with match components) DA/SAs are awesome too. Really they are all awesome just depends on what someone wants.

[Lost River]

I will have to say that This is the best DA/SA ever..

https://i.imgur.com/YDAYKfD.jpg?1

As I have mentioned before the only gun I have that shoots like this is my Baer 1911 with 1.5" accuracy guarantee.

This little aluminum framed beauty is simply amazing. The single action trigger on this gun is simply incredible. This is from a time when they really built true custom guns in the custom shop.

If I could have S&W start building just one auto again, this would be it. It is truly exceptional. As I understand it. This is one of 108, and only 103 (I think left the factory). A bit of a rare bird.


https://i.imgur.com/Kkwa7GQ.jpg?1

This one is a very low two digit example, and one I will never part with, due to who it came from. Definitely my favorite DA/SA. I am a big fan of the 4506s in general but the CQB4563 is simply on another level.

[YVK]

This is an early Christmas present for a forum member. Kidding aside, the 226 has had a lot going for it, for a long time.

A dovetailed front sight. Tapered magazines that go in the magwell easily. MecGar mags available. A design that supports an optic, first direct milled, and now with factory slides. Great accuracy and reliability. Plenty of accessory support, as in holsters, sights and grips. A short reset trigger early on. Gray Guns support. Right at the height of "Cohen product improving," I bought a new one and ran it 10,000 rounds without a stoppage with just an occasional pass of a bore snake and squirt of oil

I am gonna call your local social services and have them do a wellness check on you. You sounded normal last night.

[revchuck38]

I've got a P6, which is basically a single stack pre-226. It's accurate, reliable, and easy to shoot. But it's a no-go for me as a carry gun due to the location of the decocker. If I were to go to a 226 for carry, I'd sell or at least stop shooting my other autoloaders. OTOH, if one were just starting out, it'd be hard to come up with a better choice for the reasons given.

My DA/SA carry gun is a PX4.

[fixer]

PF has gone to hell.

No love for the P30 in here?

[YVK]

PF has gone to hell.

No love for the P30 in here?

3-4 weeks ago I handled a new production DA/SA P30Ssk and was very pleasantly surprised with its trigger. I even asked to handle a couple of USPs for comparison and, yep, surely those were atrocious. Too bad that chances of HK making optic-ready versions of P30 line are about zero, and there's no reasonable aftermarket solution.

[Jim Watson]

My P226 CPO GGI is a very fine DA/SA. It is my "house gun" because it is reliable, large capacity, and safe and simple to get going should the alarm sound.

I sent it to GGI with the intent of making an IDPA SSP out of it and it worked well with one exception. The slide stop is small, stiff, and not located where my 1911 grip expects to find it. That made it tough for IDPA slide lock reloads, so I relegated the gun to home defense and resumed shooting my 1911s.

[Spartan1980]

226, 229, 239. Who's counting anyway? :cool:

Lost River I have a line on a nice S&W 645. It's all I can do to keep my wallet in my pocket. The $1200 price seems a bit steep, but in time it probably won't be...

[David S.]

One of my fave's, and I shot it pretty well.

I quickly moved through the P30 LEM (because TLG/DB), PX4 series and finally settled on the P-07/09 in an effort to save the few ounces.

The classic SIGs are the only ones I really miss. If I had it to do over again, I'd have stuck with a brace of P226 and P224's.

[Trukinjp13]

My early build mk25 with tb was the easiest shooting handgun I’ve owned. The only thing I did was install the srt kit and a different front sight to adjust poi. I miss that damn gun. Especially since I’m back in the fold with my p229. breakingtime91 helped me to just take the plunge and go back to Sig.


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[BehindBlueI's]

I am quite fond of the P2xx series. I was tempted by the Langdon Beretta a few times, but never could quite break open my wallet and redo my logistical support for the new gun. I considered going back to one for daily carry when I went back to Invest.

[Lon]

Nope.

I’ve carried Sig TDAs, including the 226 for most of my professional career. A W German 226 was the first pistol I ever bought. 226s, 229s, 228s, 239s and P6s. Had ‘em all. And when compared to the 92A1 (Wilson Combat work), my Elite 2 and the M9A1 compact I had, they all came in second place except for one thing - you could run a dot on them, which really wasn’t an option for Berettas at the time I had them. And now that’s not an issue.

But even then, my Cajunized CZ P07/RMR blows both the Beretta and the Sig outta the water as a TDA. So my vote goes to the P07, followed by the Beretta.

[DDTSGM]

I shot a 226 Legion RX at a Sig demo day at the gun club. I thought it was an absolutely amazing pistol. In the short period of time that I had a hold of it, I did not learn how to effectively manipulate the slide release. Damn the short thumbs...

Think of it as a slide catch, not a slide release. After seating the mag, grasp the rear of the slide in an overhand manner, pull slightly to the rear then crisply release by opening your fingers. Do mot sling shot, crisply release.

Is this a tad bit slower than being able to use your thumb and push down? Yes, it is, but not appreciably so. If you don't shoot to lock-back, you should only have to do it upon loading and clearing, though.

Drill: first mag in pistol loaded with one. All others loaded with two. Fire, reload, fire, recover. Repeat. Practiced with form it grooves your reloads and your slide manipulation.

During the era of the DA/SA pistol in police work, I taught with a S&W 639 and Sig 228 - work pistols. I was able to shoot a lot of student Sigs, never found one that wasn't accurate, especially fond of the Sig 220's.

The only thing that I could find objectionable is that the manipulations are not particularly lefty friendly. We trained around that for officers using them.

[Flat6]

Used a Legion 226 for range fun & P228 for CCW, then Langdon changed the game with Elite 92. Centurion RDO is my favorite pistol, the trigger and soft, smooth flat shooting characteristics just slightly edges the P series for me. Still have the Legion & W. German 226s that I still enjoy.

[P30]

No love for the P30 in here?
Here! But in V4 CH more than in DA/SA.

V4 = LEM, medium trigger weight, looong reset
CH = variant for Swiss police with shortened trigger take-up

I wish the reset was shorter. Otherwise I like it very much still after 12 years. Todd's P30 extreme test in 2009 had a big influence on me so that I bought one.

[JonInWA]

Meh. At one point in the late '90's and early 2000's, I was very heavily invested in the SIG DA/SA line-up; about the only one I didn't have was a P226. The P-Series are excellent pistols, but these days I prefer my 92D, P30L V 1.5 LEM, and Glocks.

In a duty-size metal-framed DA/SA, I prefer my venerable Ruger P89, which fits my hand like a glove and has excellent accuracy.

These days, if I wanted a DA/SA SIG, I'd get a Sigpro 2022.

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

Heavily regret trading my early 90s Sig Sauer P226 that I bought brand new.

I was able to find an 80s Beretta 92f in the box locally for cheap that replaced the one I traded years ago. Hopefully, one day I can spot a P226 and solve the problem.

I will say that my son’s H&K USP in .45 auto is probably the one I would choose if forced.

[Jared]

I’m very much a Beretta guy. I prefer the 92 series and the PX4 series to the SIGs. That said, I like the 226 a lot, along with the rest of the classic P22x SIGs. And the 239 for some reason or another just shoots really really well for me with me having to do minimal work to get it to do so.

I know this is probably not gonna be a popular sentiment, but until someone gets to the really high levels of competition shooting, I don’t think the gun itself makes all that much difference. I mean, it makes some, but I’ve noticed almost every popular service pistol I’ve shot I’ve been able to shoot to an acceptable level.

If I were forced to carry/shoot nothing but the classic SIGs, I wouldn’t weep.

[GJM]

I’m very much a Beretta guy. I prefer the 92 series and the PX4 series to the SIGs. That said, I like the 226 a lot, along with the rest of the classic P22x SIGs. And the 239 for some reason or another just shoots really really well for me with me having to do minimal work to get it to do so.

I know this is probably not gonna be a popular sentiment, but until someone gets to the really high levels of competition shooting, I don’t think the gun itself makes all that much difference. I mean, it makes some, but I’ve noticed almost every popular service pistol I’ve shot I’ve been able to shoot to an acceptable level.

If I were forced to carry/shoot nothing but the classic SIGs, I wouldn’t weep.

USPSA has such a variety of tasks -- draw, reload, transition, and split, with a variety of target sizes and distances, that the difference in platforms tend to get rounded out.

Interesting on the 226 being heavy. By CO standards, I would call the 226 mid weight, with polymer strikers bantams and steel frame pistols the heavy weights. The weight of the 226 makes it heavier than a striker to carry, but pretty easy to shoot well, and far more tolerant of a bad grip that might cause a stoppage in a light striker.

[Suvorov]

I would be inclined to agree with you on all counts except that damn slide release and my thumb have never fully seen eye to eye despite years and thousands of rounds of trying.

That said it certainly is in the top running for finest combat handgun ever made. In the end though - I just shoot the 92 series better.

[MDFA]

Not a lot of experience with the 226. I had a M11 which was nice but I wanted a rail to mount a light if I felt the need too. Got my 229 E2 recently after seeing Breakingtime91 posts about his and I'm very pleased with mine. Stippled the E2 grip and installed Gray Guns Master Spring Kit and new sights. I just ordered the SIG 229 RXP Romeo 1 Pro Slide to try out a MRDS on it.

[03RN]

I really like 226s. But I prefer Beretta. I traded a 88 west German 226 for my m9a1 compact. While I do miss it I don't regret the choice.

[03RN]

I would be inclined to agree with you on all counts except that damn slide release and my thumb have never fully seen eye to eye despite years and thousands of rounds of trying.

That said it certainly is in the top running for finest combat handgun ever made. In the end though - I just shoot the 92 series better.

I trimmed the factory slide release down which fixed that problem. Add in g10 grips, a SRT, and Heine straight 8s I had mine set up perfect.

[GJM]

This wasn't intended to be a 226 vs 92 thread, but the comparison is probably inevitable.

As long as I can remember, it has been established that the 92 is superior, and I have a few dozen 92 pistols, including some very special ones.

Despite that, the 226 has always been easier to do iron sights and red dots on, and easier to reload because of the profile of the magazines and mag wells. G capability was also standard on the 226.

[pangloss]

I have several hammer fired pistols and I rank the 226 near the bottom of the list. I shoot mostly Glocks and buy other pistols out of curiosity. I have less than 200 rounds through my 226. It feels too big for my hands, and it frequently fails to ignite rounds on the first trigger pull. I think the ignition problem is from my thumb riding the decocker. Without really trying to learn the pistol, every else I own has better ergos for me and the Berettas have better trigger pulls. That said, I think my problems with the 226 are my problems and it's a great pistol. I'd really like to get a 229 at some point.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[Hstanton1]

I ended up trading a Langdon Beretta for an older production P226. Despite the sig having a heavier trigger and worse sights, I found myself shooting it better. They carry about the same for me, and I like the shorter beaver tail on the sig.

In the end, a red dot really important for my shooting and my vision, so a MOS Glock is a better shooter for me than any iron sighted gun I’ve tried so far. I really need to get the sig cut for a dot though.

[jnc36rcpd]

I wrote the proposal for my former agency to transition from revolvers to the SIG P226 so you can imagine my feelings on this issue. I later wrote the proposal to transition to the .40 226. I was already somewhat dubious about the need for the .40 even then, but I was the junior firearms instructor and the best writer. The department was well served by the 226, complemented by a couple 228's for officers with smaller hands, 230's for detectives, and later 239's for detectives and some with smaller hands.

Some years after adopting the .40 226, we sustained multiple cracks in the frames. We never determined the cause of the problem. SigSauer treated us right, but could not identify the problem (so they told us). This led to the adoptation of the FNS-9, a disaster I recounted here before. At least one officer retained his retired 9mm 226 as an off-duty weapon.

My stable includes my retired 9mm 226, my retired .40, a 228, a 239, and a 229. My .40's are holding up, but if I were carrying a DA/SA, I'm opt for a 9mm 226.

[RONK]

I prefer DA/SA and very much like the P226 especially the MK25 with a SRT installed.I personally don't care for the smaller decoking lever and slide release on the Legions.I'm sorry Sig discontinued the P225 and P239.I'm also sorry they discontinued the P226ST/P226 Elite(sorry I think that was the model for the all stainless P226).In lieu of Beretta's all stainless X92 Performance,Sig might want to consider reintroducing the all stainless pistol similar to their discontinued X5.

[Brian T]

I have faaaaaaar more rounds through the SIG Sauer P-series, and I owned waaaaaaay too damned many of them over the years. I now only own a P228 which will get GGI parts and APW nickeled.

I have been stockpiling Beretta mags for my eventual 92LTT that will eventually get doped up with LTT parts.

I would love to shoot a B92 with LTT parts side-by-side with a 226 with GG1 parts...

---------------

But there's this voice, whispering to me, telling me "You already have the P228, get a P226 and forget them pizza guns." It has a kraut accent.

And then there's this other voice whispering "You know damned good and well S&W made the better TDA, you just didnt know it until it was too late. Get yourself 5906 to go with your other 3rd gens. You're a S&W man."

----------------

So I am just gonna keep shooting this damned Staccato P and like it!

[Jared]

I have faaaaaaar more rounds through the SIG Sauer P-series, and I owned waaaaaaay too damned many of them over the years. I now only own a P228 which will get GGI parts and APW nickeled.

I have been stockpiling Beretta mags for my eventual 92LTT that will eventually get doped up with LTT parts.

I would love to shoot a B92 with LTT parts side-by-side with a 226 with GG1 parts...

---------------

But there's this voice, whispering to me, telling me "You already have the P228, get a P226 and forget them pizza guns." It has a kraut accent.

And then there's this other voice whispering "You know damned good and well S&W made the better TDA, you just didnt know it until it was too late. Get yourself 5906 to go with your other 3rd gens. You're a S&W man."

----------------

So I am just gonna keep shooting this damned Staccato P and like it!

While I love S&W revolvers and have love for the third Gen Smith autos, I’d rank the 5906 behind the 92, the 226, and probably the CZ-75 for metal framed DA/SA pistols. That’s just my observations from shooting them, and keep in mind if they were still supported by the factory and I had to use one I wouldn’t be too upset.

[Vista461]

I will have to say that This is the best DA/SA ever..

https://i.imgur.com/YDAYKfD.jpg?1

As I have mentioned before the only gun I have that shoots like this is my Baer 1911 with 1.5" accuracy guarantee.

This little aluminum framed beauty is simply amazing. The single action trigger on this gun is simply incredible. This is from a time when they really built true custom guns in the custom shop.

If I could have S&W start building just one auto again, this would be it. It is truly exceptional. As I understand it. This is one of 108, and only 103 (I think left the factory). A bit of a rare bird.


https://i.imgur.com/Kkwa7GQ.jpg?1



This one is a very low two digit example, and one I will never part with, due to who it came from. Definitely my favorite DA/SA. I am a big fan of the 4506s in general but the CQB4563 is simply on another level.

I wish I could afford one of those. So jealous. :D

[Lost River]

226, 229, 239. Who's counting anyway? :cool:

Lost River I have a line on a nice S&W 645. It's all I can do to keep my wallet in my pocket. The $1200 price seems a bit steep, but in time it probably won't be...

The S&W 645 then the 4506 are simply impressive platforms. I don't know if you could wear one out if you tried.

[paherne]

Horrible gun for a left hander. Horrible trigger action on the 1990's models. Horrible finishes, too.

[KevH]

SIG, Beretta, S&W 3rd Gen...

Six of one, half dozen the other.

They're all great guns.

[Doc_Glock]

This is an early Christmas present for a forum member. Kidding aside, the 226 has had a lot going for it, for a long time.

A dovetailed front sight. Tapered magazines that go in the magwell easily. MecGar mags available. A design that supports an optic, first direct milled, and now with factory slides. Great accuracy and reliability. Plenty of accessory support, as in holsters, sights and grips. A short reset trigger early on. Gray Guns support. Right at the height of "Cohen product improving," I bought a new one and ran it 10,000 rounds without a stoppage with just an occasional pass of a bore snake and squirt of oil.

Oh, did I mention Todd really likes them.


I can’t argue with your assertions.

Aside from optic compatibility, I prefer the B92 for a metal framed gun, and prefer the P30 most of all out of DA/SA world for carry.

Then I sold off all the DA/SA stuff except a couple Berettas. They are cool and fun and great to shoot but the system just didn’t ever make sense to me. Striker/DAO life here.

[breakingtime91]

I find that the sig recoil better for me than other DA/SA guns. You can get away with more as far as triggers go with Beretta and cz if you are looking for light weight. I actually prefer a 7-8lb smooth DA and a little more feeling in my SA. The sig P series (I carry a 229 or a 228 and have a spare 229 training gun) gives me that with a little work or swapping of the strut and main spring. As far as recoil, I "feel" like the 229 is a little snappier then the 92 but its straight back and barely up so I can track the sights more naturally. Idk if that makes sense. I also just love the decocker, slide release, and look of them

[Mark D]

It looks like the P226 factory milled slides (so called "Rx" slides) come with the Romeo 1 Pro. Is that optic footprint compatible with any other common dots?

[MattyD380]

If I had to go with just one make of pistol, it would be classic DA/SA Sigs. But not the P226.

For a big double-stack DA/SA service pistol, I prefer a Beretta 92 to a P226. For me, classic Sigs shine as single stacks: the P239, P220, P245, P225. I own all of them, including 3 P239s. The P226, P228 and P229 all seemed a little large for my hands. Whereas the 92 (as I've found) has a surprisingly short trigger reach for a big ole' gun. It's just big... and so fat. And so is the PX4. But if you're just pounding rounds into the center of a target... the 92 is wonderful. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing a nice P228 or P226 again some point. There's still great guns.

But as far as my absolute favorite DA/SA gun to shoot...

Might be my Walther P5. It's like someone combined a Beretta 92 and Sig P239 and gave it the perfect grip contour with an even shorter trigger reach. And a strangely low bore-axis. It feels so dialed in holding and shooting it. Right up there with the BHP.

I also love 3rd gens. Strangely, I prefer the double stacks with the Smiths. The 6900 series has always been one of my faves. Also dig the 5906. I honestly think the Smiths have the best DA triggers of all the DA/SA guns I've tried. Very smooth, no stacking.

[paherne]

SIG, Beretta, S&W 3rd Gen...

Six of one, half dozen the other.

They're all great guns.

No. S&W 3rd gen were hot garbage. I did my FI class, in 2005, next to a Chippy class where armorers would bring BOXES of guns to replace broken guns. None of the cadets at my academy in 1993 that carried S&W autos finished the academy with the guns they started with.

[LJP]

While not a P226, I have a 90’s P220 that is the first handgun I bought after turning 21. It’s been to Sig in years past for a trigger job, they essentially made a SRT before such thing was offered by name. I don’t carry it anymore due to size, weight, and capacity, but it is the one pistol I own that I can legitimately say has never had a malfunction. Everyone that I’ve let shoot it loves it and wants it, but it’s not for sale, ever. My old partner erroneously insists that it’s going to her when I kick the bucket, but I hope one of my kids eventually wants it. Good guns.

[KevH]

No. S&W 3rd gen were hot garbage. I did my FI class, in 2005, next to a Chippy class where armorers would bring BOXES of guns to replace broken guns. None of the cadets at my academy in 1993 that carried S&W autos finished the academy with the guns they started with.

I disagree.

My department issued the 659 starting in about 1984 followed by the 5906/6906 up until 2004. While I don't think anyone would argue with the fact the 5906 is a boat anchor, they were (and in the case of folks that kept there's) extremely reliable. CCCSO issued the 5906 all the way up until 2006 and had the same experience. We had a few guys that were 4506-1 holdouts that just recently retired. Same story...no problems with reliability.

They are certainly more complex inside than the Beretta or SIG. I think a lot of it has to do with how the guns are maintained. With the S&W autos proper lubrication and simple preventative maintenance goes a really long way. Keeping on top of small parts like the trigger play spring helps.

I'd have no problem carrying one again, although I dare say, it wouldn't be my first choice.

[dmiculek]

https://i.imgur.com/WvxE3xKm.jpg

I like DA/SA handguns, I carried a 4506-1 as a duty weapon for a number of years. It was accurate and utterly reliable. Did the Glock/M&P thing for a few years but never warmed up to them. Fondled a 226 Legion in LGS a couple of years back and really liked the undercut trigger guard, checkering and the beaver tail. I purchased one, liked it enough to get a 229. Both have trigger work by the SIG Armorer and have become my primary handguns. Old eyes pretty much mandated a red dot, one wears a RMR the other a Holosun 508T. (I'm really liking that circle dot option)

[MDFA]

It looks like the P226 factory milled slides (so called "Rx" slides) come with the Romeo 1 Pro. Is that optic footprint compatible with any other common dots?
Delta Point Pro from what I understand.

[stinx]

I disagree.

My department issued the 659 starting in about 1984 followed by the 5906/6906 up until 2004. While I don't think anyone would argue with the fact the 5906 is a boat anchor, they were (and in the case of folks that kept there's) extremely reliable. CCCSO issued the 5906 all the way up until 2006 and had the same experience. We had a few guys that were 4506-1 holdouts that just recently retired. Same story...no problems with reliability.

They are certainly more complex inside than the Beretta or SIG. I think a lot of it has to do with how the guns are maintained. With the S&W autos proper lubrication and simple preventative maintenance goes a really long way. Keeping on top of small parts like the trigger play spring helps.

I'd have no problem carrying one again, although I dare say, it wouldn't be my first choice.

The S&W third Gens had an incredibly short trigger reset. I like the ones I had.

[Brian T]

My two CHP4006TSW, my 4506-1, and my 5903/3913 franken'smith are all works of art in machining. Heavy? A little over complicated? Oh hell yes. But reliable, accurate, smooth shooting, and with a factory TDA that eats SIG and Beretta's lunch? You bet.

The issue now is support. That said, I am one of those people with a bunch of spare parts for all my blasters, and I'm not afraid to get elbows deep in any of my S&Ws or my P228.

[HCM]

It looks like the P226 factory milled slides (so called "Rx" slides) come with the Romeo 1 Pro. Is that optic footprint compatible with any other common dots?


Delta Point Pro from what I understand.

Maybe. Seguin has offered six different Optics cuts from the factory.

Speaking of which if someone has an older slide cut for the original Sigg Romeo/Romeo one proprietary footprint those can be recut to an RMR footprint

[GJM]

The “Pro” slides for the 226 and 320 are cut for the Romeo 1 Pro/DeltaPoint Pro, and also have RMR holes. I have heard that the support for the RMR footprint optics is not ideal on these, but CHPWS makes a plate that goes on those slides and mounts the RMR/SRO/Holosun. Apex makes a plate that mounts the Acro on these slides.

If that doesn’t give you the flexibility you want, Springer Precision will cut the Pro slides so they accept their Legion plates.

[GJM]

Reference the 226 grip, the 320 AXG grip seems to be 226 like in feel, and allows you to get higher on the grip than with a Legion Tungsten lower. This is a 320 I am shooting with the AXG grip, Lok heavy grips, and the 4.7 Pro slide with a 6 moa DP Pro.

81865

[OlongJohnson]

But reliable, accurate, smooth shooting, and with a factory TDA that eats SIG and Beretta's lunch? You bet.

I have owned a total of nine S&W 3rd gens in 9mm. With the dempanic pricing, I have cleared that out to just a pair of 3953s. Not a one of them came/comes close to the smoothness of a moderately worked over classic Sig. My best Sig is way better than the average. Haven't gotten into my 92D yet, but I expect it to be at least close to the average of the Sigs. In addition, the press on the 3953s is well above 10 lb, making it pretty difficult to put in the reps. Talked with Frank Glenn for awhile about doing something with them, and he said he'd tried everything back in the day, just couldn't get reliable ignition on the modified-DAO 3rd-gens if he lightened the trigger enough to make a difference.

[HCM]

I have owned a total of nine S&W 3rd gens in 9mm. With the dempanic pricing, I have cleared that out to just a pair of 3953s. Not a one of them came/comes close to the smoothness of a moderately worked over classic Sig. My best Sig is way better than the average. Haven't gotten into my 92D yet, but I expect it to be at least close to the average of the Sigs. In addition, the press on the 3953s is well above 10 lb, making it pretty difficult to put in the reps. Talked with Frank Glenn for awhile about doing something with them, and he said he'd tried everything back in the day, just couldn't get reliable ignition on the modified-DAO 3rd-gens if he lightened the trigger enough to make a difference.

IME it is easier to get a good / really good trigger pull on a Beretta 92 and I prefer the "straight back" recoil impulse of the 92's lock up.

The downsides are the 92 grip is best suited to those (like myself) with larger hands, unless you get a Vertec frame and optics are a challenge vs the SIG.

I prefer either to the S&W 3rd gen guns. The S&W aren't bad but just don't do anything for me and the current scarcity of the spare parts needed to keep them running makes them a non starter.

[Brian T]

I have owned a total of nine S&W 3rd gens in 9mm. With the dempanic pricing, I have cleared that out to just a pair of 3953s. Not a one of them came/comes close to the smoothness of a moderately worked over classic Sig. My best Sig is way better than the average. Haven't gotten into my 92D yet, but I expect it to be at least close to the average of the Sigs. In addition, the press on the 3953s is well above 10 lb, making it pretty difficult to put in the reps. Talked with Frank Glenn for awhile about doing something with them, and he said he'd tried everything back in the day, just couldn't get reliable ignition on the modified-DAO 3rd-gens if he lightened the trigger enough to make a difference.

So a factory S&W 3rd gen doesnt come close to a "moderately worked over classic Sig"? Uh... no doubt. A friend has a SIG custom shop tuned P228 that is beautiful, both in in trigger quality and appearance. Much better than my CHP4006TSWs, my 3913, or my wannabe SSV (5903/3913 frankensmith). But they are stock triggers.

3953s arent traditional DAO, they are "pre-loaded" DA hence you dont have second strike capability. There are some 3913s out there, weirdly enough in model number that are DAO. My 3953 is bone stock and is right around 10l-12b pull mark, but it is smooth 10-12#'ish pull. There are things that can be done to lighten and further smooth out all 3rd Gens. Wolff now has spring kits for almost all S&W 3rd Gens. The kits will include mainsprings and trigger return springs of various weights. ETA: Apparently you can also call and ask about some sub-17 hammer springs/mainsprings.
Without cutting sear engagements, another thing you can do is clean up, or polish, the trigger bow and the points on the frame the bow contacts. I have done these two U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-Ds to my 4506-1 and am VERY happy with the DA and SA pulls, both of which are lighter and smoother with that super short factory reset the S&Ws are known for.

There are fewer S&W 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Gen knowledgable 'smiths every year it seems. Novaks still does S&W metal frame work. I *think* Sokol does as well. There is a guy on smith-wessonforum.com that goes by BMCM who does work on S&W 3rd gens and people are raving about. I am sending 3 slides to him when his schedules clears up to have them converted to decocker only (aint nuthin but a G thang). I may send my 3913 frame and have him do a his "PC" trigger job on it.

[GJM]

This thread caused me to take a peek on gunbroker and third gen Smith and Wesson prices are insane. I have a tub of them, mostly 10mm and 3913/Ladysmiths that I should probably send to new homes.

[alohadoug]

This thread caused me to take a peek on gunbroker and third gen Smith and Wesson prices are insane. I have a tub of them, mostly 10mm and 3913/Ladysmiths that I should probably send to new homes.
Hi. I represent a group that rehomes lost and unwanted 3rd Generation S&Ws. We are currently very short on 39xx series. We would be happy to take several off your hands....

Lol....

[SecondsCount]

PF has gone to hell.

No love for the P30 in here?

Lots of love. The P226 sits in the safe while I carry a P30 LEM. Purely preference :cool:

[jh9]

There are fewer S&W 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Gen knowledgable 'smiths every year it seems. Novaks still does S&W metal frame work. I *think* Sokol does as well. There is a guy on smith-wessonforum.com that goes by BMCM who does work on S&W 3rd gens and people are raving about. I am sending 3 slides to him when his schedules clears up to have them converted to decocker only (aint nuthin but a G thang). I may send my 3913 frame and have him do a his "PC" trigger job on it.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/precision-gunsmithing

The factory still has 3rd gen action work listed as an option on their website. I don't know if that's an oversight or if they still have someone in Springfield who happened to be around during the metal-framed auto era. Or was trained by someone who was. I kinda get the impression that's the only reason Colt is still cataloging the SAA. Two or three guys could get hit by a bus tomorrow and that factory option would go away.

[fpnunes]

PF has gone to hell.

No love for the P30 in here?

I EDC a P30sk LEM daily. Massive love for all HK line here.

I'm pretty sure that GJM hit the Christmas eggnog a little too early as evidenced by this thread. ;) That said, I swore that Sig would never see another dollar from me after they killed off the P225, P225-A1 and P239. I loved my P series Sigs and miss the ones I owned so recently have started thinking about get the P226 DA/SA Legion. The one I test fired at my local range was like old home week and shot far better that anything I have used in the last 20+ years. The smaller controls never mattered to me as I'm a lefty and can decock with my forefinger and work the slide with an overhand grip.

[Duelist]

This thread caused me to take a peek on gunbroker and third gen Smith and Wesson prices are insane. I have a tub of them, mostly 10mm and 3913/Ladysmiths that I should probably send to new homes.

I still have a 3913 and a 4516-1 that aren’t looking for new homes. Two of my favorite guns I don’t carry much. But I would in a heartbeat - they are reliable and accurate little guns.

[Vista461]

I disagree.

My department issued the 659 starting in about 1984 followed by the 5906/6906 up until 2004. While I don't think anyone would argue with the fact the 5906 is a boat anchor, they were (and in the case of folks that kept there's) extremely reliable. CCCSO issued the 5906 all the way up until 2006 and had the same experience. We had a few guys that were 4506-1 holdouts that just recently retired. Same story...no problems with reliability.

They are certainly more complex inside than the Beretta or SIG. I think a lot of it has to do with how the guns are maintained. With the S&W autos proper lubrication and simple preventative maintenance goes a really long way. Keeping on top of small parts like the trigger play spring helps.

I'd have no problem carrying one again, although I dare say, it wouldn't be my first choice.

I agree with KevH. I had a 4003 and 5906 that were both police trade ins. I shot them quite a bit and the only failure was a double feed in the 4003 with the crappy WWB.

Would’ve got another to carry at work, but the discontinuation of parts made me choose the Beretta instead. I never needed parts in my other ones, but with my luck, once parts are harder to find, I’d need them. Lol.

[HCM]

PF has gone to hell.

No love for the P30 in here?

HK/P30 love here was always based on the LEM. The poor DA/SA triggers of the USP/P30/HK45 series have always been their Achilles heel.

[KevH]

So a factory S&W 3rd gen doesnt come close to a "moderately worked over classic Sig"? Uh... no doubt. A friend has a SIG custom shop tuned P228 that is beautiful, both in in trigger quality and appearance. Much better than my CHP4006TSWs, my 3913, or my wannabe SSV (5903/3913 frankensmith). But they are stock triggers.

3953s arent traditional DAO, they are "pre-loaded" DA hence you dont have second strike capability. There are some 3913s out there, weirdly enough in model number that are DAO. My 3953 is bone stock and is right around 10l-12b pull mark, but it is smooth 10-12#'ish pull. There are things that can be done to lighten and further smooth out all 3rd Gens. Wolff now has spring kits for almost all S&W 3rd Gens. The kits will include mainsprings and trigger return springs of various weights. ETA: Apparently you can also call and ask about some sub-17 hammer springs/mainsprings.
Without cutting sear engagements, another thing you can do is clean up, or polish, the trigger bow and the points on the frame the bow contacts. I have done these two U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-Ds to my 4506-1 and am VERY happy with the DA and SA pulls, both of which are lighter and smoother with that super short factory reset the S&Ws are known for.

There are fewer S&W 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Gen knowledgable 'smiths every year it seems. Novaks still does S&W metal frame work. I *think* Sokol does as well. There is a guy on smith-wessonforum.com that goes by BMCM who does work on S&W 3rd gens and people are raving about. I am sending 3 slides to him when his schedules clears up to have them converted to decocker only (aint nuthin but a G thang). I may send my 3913 frame and have him do a his "PC" trigger job on it.

I owned a PC "Shorty Forty" in the past. It had a superb trigger. I always wanted a 5906PC or 4563 CQB. I'm sure they had equally good triggers.

[GJM]

Anyone aware of a direct milled red dot on a Gen 3 Smith?

[Clusterfrack]

I think cheby sold all his CZs and now has Sigs?

I’m an apostate. I had a Gen2 and 3 S&W, and they were not reliable or durable. Mechanically I found the design baffling.

I’ve shot a few TDA Sigs. They seem ok, but I’ll stick with my CZs, thanks.

[Mark D]

HK/P30 love here was always based on the LEM. The poor DA/SA triggers of the USP/P30/HK45 series have always been their Achilles heel.

I've only owned one HK with a DA/SA trigger, and that was a P2000. The DA was similar to my Stanley staple gun - very long, spongy, and heavy.

How do the TDA HK triggers compare to Sig or Berretta after they've been worked over by Lazy Wolf or Grey Guns?

[GJM]

I've only owned one HK with a DA/SA trigger, and that was a P2000. The DA was similar to my Stanley staple gun - very long, spongy, and heavy.

How do the TDA HK triggers compare to Sig or Berretta after they've been worked over by Lazy Wolf or Grey Guns?

You keep telling yourself they feel great, because of how long you waited and how much they cost.

[MickAK]

I think cheby sold all his CZs and now has Sigs?

I’m an apostate. I had a Gen2 and 3 S&W, and they were not reliable or durable. Mechanically I found the design baffling.

I’ve shot a few TDA Sigs. They seem ok, but I’ll stick with my CZs, thanks.

It's a transition from 1911 pistol.

You find a Sig TDA, maybe trade for one for a cheap diesel pickup plus cash. Shoot it for fun, I'll be darned it keeps running. Shoots nice, really. After a bit of hand fitting on a 1911 you keep shooting it and dang, it just shoots without any of that art or science.

This is how you end up shooting things with a badly designed TV remote (Glock). Trading function for aesthetics.

IDK how you end up with CZ, I'm guessing fermenting of some sort of vegetables. Or putting a bird on it.

[Bruce Cartwright]

GJM:

I am a bit late in replying to this thread due to the festivities today. A couple of thoughts on the P226.

A bit of my history with the gun. I was issued West German P226 when I went through our academy. During our Academy we fired north of 3,500 rounds through our handguns. During that time and the years, I carried that gun, it never malfunctioned. I shot scads of ammo through that gun and wish I could have bought it when I retired. Every one I fired had essentially match grade accuracy.

The P226 series are excellent tools for managing human threats. Law Enforcement typically points guns at people more than shoots them. The double action first shot tends to mitigate negligent discharges and requires a conscious decision to fire. If the fight you are in lasts more than one round, then the excellent single action trigger is very close to what a 1911 style pistol offers in terms of pure accuracy. Essentially, the P226 offers a really great compromise that takes the best attributes of a revolver (long double action or trigger cocking action) and marries it to a really nice single action trigger (1911 style). I eventually transitioned away from the Sig P226 to a Glock (initially in 40 S&W then 45 ACP) mainly because the 9mm ammunition of the time period was not what it is today.

At one point before I transitioned, I had the chance to run my P226 in a series of high speed, high accuracy drills. I routinely fired the first shot via the double action trigger press and never thumb cocked my 226. I was and am a fan of Colonel Cooper and was aware of his comments about the double action auto being an "ingenious solution to a nonexistent problem.", I never experienced the difficult transition Colonel Cooper spoke of. I was self-taught on revolvers, and I suspect that is what made the transition easier. I also suspect that had Colonel Cooper had shooting access to the P226 at the time he formed his opinion (shortly after WWII) things might have been a bit different. I distinctly remember firing a Sig for the first time and thought the first shot is like a revolver and the rest of the rounds are like a 1911. Easy.

I recently had the opportunity to get shooting access to a P228 again. Picking up that pistol was like shaking the hand of an old friend. The necessary manipulations came back instantly. Sigs have some idiosyncrasies but so do all guns. If I had to carry a Sig P226 for the rest of my days, that would be no burden. My partner on my old job was/is a huge fan of Sigs. The things he could do with those guns bordered on the unbelievable. When I went to Firearms Instructor school, we had recently been mandated to use the sidearms we actually carried. Prior to that many agents would draw a S&W Model 19 with four-inch barrel and shoot the bullseye qualification with it loaded with wadcutters. By then I was carrying a Glock 21. The 21 is a good gun but the P226 was more accurate. I passed my mandated quals on "Bloody Wednesday' with my G21, but it would have been easier with my P226.

One thing that nobody seems to talk about is the ability to set off rounds with hard primers. Striker fired guns impart much less energy to the primer of the ammunition they are discharging compared to a hammer fired gun. The Sig P226, assuming someone doesn't muck around with the factory springs, will set off just about any ammo you can load it with. That may not be a concern for a competition shooter who has lots of Federal primers but in our current primer drought, people are reloading pistol ammo with rifle primers which can cause issues with ignition reliability.

I understand that the Pennsylvania State Police recently transitioned (several years ago) to the Sig P227 (high cap 45) from Glocks. The information I got at the time (Sample size of one instructor for a mediums size barracks) was that the troops were doing well with the P227 despite most of the troopers having been trained on Beretta 96s and Glocks. The accuracy and ease of shooting were the things credited with the good scores.

For a real world carry gun, the P226 has much to recommend it today despite the prevalence of striker fired polymer guns.

The P226 set the bar for accurate, reliable service handguns that many designs work to emulate today. Thanks for the opportunity to share my two cents worth.

Merry Christmas!

Bruce

[JSGlock34]

Anyone aware of a direct milled red dot on a Gen 3 Smith?

I think this is a dovetail mount...
p/CXPoVjhM8jd

On the other hand...not sure the slide is wide enough to go direct without some kind of mount...
p/CWXEaNMsmp0

[Mitch]

P226 is one of my favorite guns for reasons I can’t even figure out myself. But in 9mm I can’t think of a single thing it does better than an LTT 92. 40 or 357 would be a different story.

And for edc, a PX4cc seems to be the best da/sa carry gun I’ve seen.

[Brian T]

Anyone aware of a direct milled red dot on a Gen 3 Smith?

Vulcan out of Texas did a S&W 59 (I know, I know, but the customer gets what they pay for. I suppose its possible. They are experimenting over on smith-wessonforum

[Clusterfrack]

IDK how you end up with CZ, I'm guessing fermenting of some sort of vegetables. Or putting a bird on it.

LOL! Carrie Brownstein would totally shoot a CZ and put a bird on it.

#hipstergun (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=hipstergun)

[PD Sgt.]

I for years had a 226 with a stainless, railed frame, CT grips, and an early Surefire light. Big, heavy, and an absolute laser to shoot. I later added the short reset trigger as well. I used to joke that with all that weight shooting was like, “dry firing with noise.”

Realizing I would never carry it, and my bedside gun was an 870, I sold it to a buddy of mine. I have occasionally thought to see if he would sell it back, but his wife has commandeered it and it is her favorite.

[Bucky]

Think of it as a slide catch, not a slide release.

I think of it as a slide NOT release. As someone who started out with 1911s, I find Sig pistols don’t lock back for me. I’m also not as fond of the recoil impulse due to the bore axis, but that’s more easily overcome if I needed to.

If we’re talking 9mms, the 92 did it best, IMHO.

[OlongJohnson]

Anyone aware of a direct milled red dot on a Gen 3 Smith?

If I was looking to go down that path, I'd at least investigate the versions with slides milled for the adjustable target rear sight with the bent sheet metal protector channel. Nice big flat that you might be able to put an adaptor plate on.

[MVS]

Reference the 226 grip, the 320 AXG grip seems to be 226 like in feel, and allows you to get higher on the grip than with a Legion Tungsten lower. This is a 320 I am shooting with the AXG grip, Lok heavy grips, and the 4.7 Pro slide with a 6 moa DP Pro.

81865

I like the AXG grip feel as much as my Q5. I was looking at the AXG pro and wondering if it would handle a little better than my Q5. The Q5 is great but with that long slide I am actually getting a bit of "negative recoil". The Q5 quality feel far surpasses anything I have seen from Sig but it does feel a little clumsy when trying to move it fast. A Q4 might be the answer but dang are they hard to find. My other possibility is a short Sig Pro Slide and AXG grip with the brass Loks.

[Lost River]

https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/precision-gunsmithing

The factory still has 3rd gen action work listed as an option on their website. I don't know if that's an oversight or if they still have someone in Springfield who happened to be around during the metal-framed auto era. Or was trained by someone who was. I kinda get the impression that's the only reason Colt is still cataloging the SAA. Two or three guys could get hit by a bus tomorrow and that factory option would go away.

I actually did not know this.

I am quite tempted to send my 4563 TSW in and have them do an action job. Then request at least two extra spring sets, and anything else (spare parts wise) they believe would be appropriate for a carry gun.


https://i.imgur.com/YVNzznz.jpg?1



I doubt they will make it like the action on the 4563 CQB, that thing has the finest action on a DA/SA gun I have ever seen. It has the shortest single action reset on it that I have ever seen on a gun of this type.

[HCM]

I like the AXG grip feel as much as my Q5. I was looking at the AXG pro and wondering if it would handle a little better than my Q5. The Q5 is great but with that long slide I am actually getting a bit of "negative recoil". The Q5 quality feel far surpasses anything I have seen from Sig but it does feel a little clumsy when trying to move it fast. A Q4 might be the answer but dang are they hard to find. My other possibility is a short Sig Pro Slide and AXG grip with the brass Loks.

On stock P3 20’s with the full-size slide and 4.7 inch barrel I have also noticed negative recoil/muzzle dip with stock springs.

The 4.7” barrel in the SIG pro slide as GJM posted eliminates that and makes it recoil like the 3.9” carry slide. I’m told the gray guns fat RSA rod helps as well.

[Lost River]

I took a pic of the reset on the 4563 PC gun.

It is a pure joy to shoot.

https://i.imgur.com/SR12bft.jpg?1

[Sig_Fiend]

How do the TDA HK triggers compare to Sig or Berretta after they've been worked over by Lazy Wolf or Grey Guns?

Worked HK TDA triggers feel good, as much as a polymer frame trigger can (especially with the GGI flat trigger).

Regardless, they're not at the level of an optimized SIG or Beretta trigger. Reason: So metal. 81904

[GJM]

Threads like this, bring out the best of PF. Lots of experience over many years, all done without my "X" is better than your "Y."

When I got into semi-auto pistols in the 80's, we competed with 1911 pistols, but tried to carry something else more reliable. DA Sig, P7 or 3rd Gen Smith. Glock changed everything. Now we are blessed with so many great semi auto defensive pistols.

[DDTSGM]

I think of it as a slide NOT release. As someone who started out with 1911s, I find Sig pistols don’t lock back for me. I’m also not as fond of the recoil impulse due to the bore axis, but that’s more easily overcome if I needed to.

If we’re talking 9mms, the 92 did it best, IMHO.

Noted.

Coming from a background of training folks to use what they were issued, we had to be able to teach manipulations right or left-handed as well as help them over-come design oddities. That is the perspective I was commenting from.

I recently acquired a 92X RDO and am enjoying it quite a bit.

At one time the agency my wife worked for issued 92D's and I thought those pistols by and large had the best DA stroke of any pistol I'd come across, better than many revolvers.

[fpnunes]

And for edc, a PX4cc seems to be the best da/sa carry gun I’ve seen.

I went down that path and spent just south of 3k purchasing three LTT PX4CCs and failed miserably to not shoot low right (lefty here) even after months of hardcore practice. 92s are dead on, PX4CCs eluded me. I gave up and moved on as they just made me miserable every time I went to the range. Shame, I loved those LTT NP3 slicked up little monkeys.

[littlejerry]

I have a theory.

GJM makes his PF dollars by buying stock in pistols that have gone out of style, then waxing poetic about it on PF and convincing everyone they should trade their modern striker Tupperware for it.

GJM will dump his shares next month, then move onto the next platform. I predict the P30 is next.

[breakingtime91]

How does the 226 compare to the 229? As far as recoil, etc.

[HCM]

I have a theory.

GJM makes his PF dollars by buying stock in pistols that have gone out of style, then waxing poetic about it on PF and convincing everyone they should trade their modern striker Tupperware for it.

GJM will dump his shares next month, then move onto the next platform. I predict the P30 is next.

Not till Lok Grips makes brass inserts for the HK Spiderman grip.

[JonInWA]

I have a theory.

GJM makes his PF dollars by buying stock in pistols that have gone out of style, then waxing poetic about it on PF and convincing everyone they should trade their modern striker Tupperware for it.

GJM will dump his shares next month, then move onto the next platform. I predict the P30 is next.

Unfortunately, a number of us here kinda resemble that comment...😎 Best, Jon

[fixer]

3-4 weeks ago I handled a new production DA/SA P30Ssk and was very pleasantly surprised with its trigger. I even asked to handle a couple of USPs for comparison and, yep, surely those were atrocious. Too bad that chances of HK making optic-ready versions of P30 line are about zero, and there's no reasonable aftermarket solution.

The V1 P30s I have are fantastic in trigger quality. I can confirm.

[03RN]

I took a pic of the reset on the 4563 PC gun.

It is a pure joy to shoot.

https://i.imgur.com/SR12bft.jpg?1

Have you shot with a 226 and a short reset trigger? How do they compare?

[OlongJohnson]

The Sig SRT has slightly more creep in SA than the standard sear. Not enough to notice at speed, but detectable when looking for it back to back. If you're a creep nut, something to keep in mind. "Flip and press" shooters might try it both ways and find they prefer the standard sear.

[xtrtsqrt11]

No. S&W 3rd gen were hot garbage. I did my FI class, in 2005, next to a Chippy class where armorers would bring BOXES of guns to replace broken guns. None of the cadets at my academy in 1993 that carried S&W autos finished the academy with the guns they started with.

Interesting about your experience with those S&W autos. In the POST CA academy I attended in '93, we had about 1/3 S&W (only one .40, the others were 9s and 45s), 1/3 SIG, and the rest was a mixture of Beretta, Revolvers (academy issue to those that didn't have their own) and a few Glocks in 9. None of the Smiths went down and the 40 went through training twice-half went to the range, half to EVOC and the 40 was loaned by it's owner to a guy who didn't have a handgun to use. This was at a regional academy at a Community College. Only a handful of sponsored by a few Departments, the rest (including me) putting themselves through. The economy was in the toilet, a year earlier, almost everyone was sponsored by Departments and only a handful on their own nickel at this academy.

The Smiths were the only design though that fed empty cases when we loaded each other's magazines for malfunction drills. All of them. I had a Smith 9mm at the time. Everyone else it was rare for a case to feed.

Back to the thread, I really like SIGs, they just really hit well for me and fit me well. Beretta not so much. Most of my SIG trigger time is with a 220, or a 229. But a 226 would have me feeling just fine if it was all I had.

ETA:clarification

[xtrtsqrt11]

Have you shot with a 226 and a short reset trigger? How do they compare?

On my personal 229, I have the short reset trigger and a GG PSAIT trigger (I think that was the acronym, it's no longer on their website, something newer is now). It made a huge improvement on the 229's trigger on the reset.
My new to me 4516 DA/SA trigger is a little nicer in both DA and SA and the reset is really nice and SHORT. It's not a PC and I've not handled a PC 3rd gen Smith. I can't say for certain that it is stock, but it feels a little better than my 4013TSW that I got New/Old stock. My 4013 only has a few hundred rounds through it. The 4516 looks new inside, but I just don't know for sure. That is my experience if it helps at all...

[Shotgun]

P226, best DA/SA ever?

GJM, in answer to your original question, No.

[Olim9]

I'm used to shooting Glocks with skate tape where your support thumb rests, does anyone else find it tougher to consistently apply pressure on that are with Sigs? I think that along with the 'high bore axis' makes the gun a bit wobbly shot to shot at least for me.

[Sig_Fiend]

I'm used to shooting Glocks with skate tape where your support thumb rests, does anyone else find it tougher to consistently apply pressure on that are with Sigs? I think that along with the 'high bore axis' makes the gun a bit wobbly shot to shot at least for me.

There's not really a way around that except to change up support thumb position to make sure you're not applying pressure in the wrong area/direction.

Getting used to the timing of the gun's cycling characteristics (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?46990-Barrel-slide-length-in-relation-to-recoil-characteristics&p=1189432&viewfull=1#post1189432) helps a ton. I'd say that's probably the larger factor at issue when the subject of "high bore axis" comes up.

[breakingtime91]

I'm used to shooting Glocks with skate tape where your support thumb rests, does anyone else find it tougher to consistently apply pressure on that are with Sigs? I think that along with the 'high bore axis' makes the gun a bit wobbly shot to shot at least for me.

Pressure on the frame is masking trigger control issues most likely. I shoot with neutral thumbs, aggressive pressure on grip. Thumbs can really fuck up everything else if you don't watch them. Thumb pressure from the off hand thumb and stippling there has really come from people (majority of users) shooting glocks low left.

[YVK]

Pressure on the frame is masking trigger control issues most likely. I shoot with neutral thumbs, aggressive pressure on grip. Thumbs can really fuck up everything else if you don't watch them. Thumb pressure from the off hand thumb and stippling there has really come from people (majority of users) shooting glocks low left.

https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/tactics_training_combatg_100306/138866

Somewhere at the bottom of that article is Sevigny with his asston of wins and pretty decent thumb pressure on a gun.

[breakingtime91]

https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/tactics_training_combatg_100306/138866

Somewhere at the bottom of that article is Sevigny with his asston of wins and pretty decent thumb pressure on a gun.
Don't they both use pretty Gucci triggers? Not disagreeing but I think most users would benefit from little to neutral pressure on the frame of the gun. We had the discussion at a Haley course I took (I'm not a fan of any one trainer but take stuff from all) where people over using there thumbs to counter trigger could idenvertenly push shots right or left hand dependent or ever cause stopages. I'm glad they shoot well but I still believe pressure with the offhand thumb masks trigger issues and can lead to reliability issues, especially in polymer guns.

[GJM]

Don't they both use pretty Gucci triggers? Not disagreeing but I think most users would benefit from little to neutral pressure on the frame of the gun. We had the discussion at a Haley course I took (I'm not a fan of any one trainer but take stuff from all) where people over using there thumbs to counter trigger could idenvertenly push shots right or left hand dependent or ever cause stopages. I'm glad they shoot well but I still believe pressure with the offhand thumb masks trigger issues and can lead to reliability issues, especially in polymer guns.

Some folks swear a Glock trigger unmasks trigger control problems they never had with other platforms. :p

[19852+]

Always liked the P226, it's just my long thumbs that didn't appreciate the rear slide lock/release. As for Glocks, I want to like them but I pull them left every time. Not so with DA revolvers, DA/SA pistols and the like. The only SIG I still own is a new production P210 American.

[MDFA]

Not a lot of experience with the 226. I had a M11 which was nice but I wanted a rail to mount a light if I felt the need too. Got my 229 E2 recently after seeing Breakingtime91 posts about his and I'm very pleased with mine. Stippled the E2 grip and installed Gray Guns Master Spring Kit and new sights. I just ordered the SIG 229 RXP Romeo 1 Pro Slide to try out a MRDS on it.

And here it is. Just installed it, haven't got to shoot it yet. I ordered the shroud as it's not included. They're on sale now on SIG's website for $479 from $599. The Romeo 1 Pro is $439 from SIG by itself, so $40.00 for a complete slide with suppressor height sights isn't too bad a deal. I removed the optic and installed the shroud and torqued everything to spec. In doing a little dry fire I like the 6 MOA dot for my eyes. YMMV.

82141

[Sig_Fiend]

Some folks swear a Glock trigger unmasks trigger control problems they never had with other platforms. :p

The Staplegun of Truth™! :D

[Greg]

The 226 is at the top or damn close to it.

[AMC]

And here it is. Just installed it, haven't got to shoot it yet. I ordered the shroud as it's not included. They're on sale now on SIG's website for $479 from $599. The Romeo 1 Pro is $439 from SIG by itself, so $40.00 for a complete slide with suppressor height sights isn't too bad a deal. I removed the optic and installed the shroud and torqued everything to spec. In doing a little dry fire I like the 6 MOA dot for my eyes. YMMV.

82141

That's a nice little package there.

[JCN]

MDFA you will love it

82163

82164

[wmu12071]

And here it is. Just installed it, haven't got to shoot it yet. I ordered the shroud as it's not included. They're on sale now on SIG's website for $479 from $599. The Romeo 1 Pro is $439 from SIG by itself, so $40.00 for a complete slide with suppressor height sights isn't too bad a deal. I removed the optic and installed the shroud and torqued everything to spec. In doing a little dry fire I like the 6 MOA dot for my eyes. YMMV.

82141

I don't suppose there were also rmr holes in that slide?

[MDFA]

I don't suppose there were also rmr holes in that slide?

No not this one. Sorry I didn't have better news for you.

[HeavyDuty]

And here it is. Just installed it, haven't got to shoot it yet. I ordered the shroud as it's not included. They're on sale now on SIG's website for $479 from $599. The Romeo 1 Pro is $439 from SIG by itself, so $40.00 for a complete slide with suppressor height sights isn't too bad a deal. I removed the optic and installed the shroud and torqued everything to spec. In doing a little dry fire I like the 6 MOA dot for my eyes. YMMV.

82141

Luckily I didn’t look until the sale was over because this is how I end up with new guns. Slide with Romeo1 Pro = pistol seed.

[MDFA]

Luckily I didn’t look until the sale was over because this is how I end up with new guns. Slide with Romeo1 Pro = pistol seed.

Sorry brother I looked yesterday and they were still on sale.:o

[wmu12071]

No not this one. Sorry I didn't have better news for you.

Thanks for the info. I see the price went back up now. One day.... Some day...

[wmu12071]

Luckily I didn’t look until the sale was over because this is how I end up with new guns. Slide with Romeo1 Pro = pistol seed.

FYI... Enabling below... (I have no connection and have never purchased from the site but the price looks good)

https://www.nccabuyersclub.com/products/hunting-sig-sauer-8900313-798681635412-3857

[MDFA]

FYI... Enabling below... (I have no connection and have never purchased from the site but the price looks good)

https://www.nccabuyersclub.com/products/hunting-sig-sauer-8900313-798681635412-3857

Never done business with them, but that's a better price than I bought mine for from SIG.

[JCN]

Never done business with them, but that's a better price than I bought mine for from SIG.

IIRC you have to get a membership to qualify for those prices. Osage is usually my Sig go to but buying from Sig is usually pretty decent.

[Mark D]

The discussion about grips makes wonder about the Crimson Trace (https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/laser-sights/lasergrips/?prefn1=manufacturerCompatibility&prefv1=Sig%20Sauer) laser grips for the classic Sigs. (I'm still intrigued by visible lasers, in part because of Todd's writing.)

Any feedback on the Sig DASA and laser grip combo?

[HCM]

FYI... Enabling below... (I have no connection and have never purchased from the site but the price looks good)

https://www.nccabuyersclub.com/products/hunting-sig-sauer-8900313-798681635412-3857

Optics planet has them in stock for $484

[Up1911Fan]

Optics planet has them in stock for $484

I've never known Optics Planet to have anything in stock, ever.

[Joe45]

I've never known Optics Planet to have anything in stock, ever.Yeah, be careful with what they have "in stock." I once paid next day air prices to get something I needed quickly since they wouldn't let me drive the 30 miles to pick it up only to find out that ment that it would ship from a warehouse somewhere one it was available. That was my last purchase from them.

[Backspin]

I’d say the P226 of yester-years were well built. Newer built P226’s…not so much.

My agency issued me a P226 in .357sig from 2006. Those batch of guns had slick double action triggers, crisp single action breaks and were wickedly accurate. More importantly, I can scarcely remember anything in those guns breaking prematurely. High round count shooters like myself saw parts breakages. But even then, my issued gun kept running despite the broken parts until they were replaced at the end of the training session.

Fast forward to 2017 when we swapped out to new P226’s in 9mm. Triggers were gritty and took a while to stop feeling totally crappy. The 2017’s never did smooth out to how the 2006 vintage guns were.

The 2017 guns started out very accurate, but 4 years and 5000-6000 rounds later and the accuracy in my issued piece is meh. Not nearly consistent as it was out of the box. Not as consistent as my G19 with second hand KKM barrel with even higher round count.

And the worst are the catastrophic failures I’ve seen on low round count guns. 5 broken trigger return springs (that I know of) on guns with less than 1500 rounds on them. The guns became glorified hammers at that point.

At least 5 that had front sights break loose (again less than 1500 rounds), causing the shooters’ accuracy go to heck. Imagine if it happened when needing to take a critical shot.

Current build quality aside, I do find the ergos with the E2 grips to fit my hands/grip technique really well so I can run the gun accurately at speed with relative ease.

[Actsda]

The 226 was the gold standard for reliability, durability, accuracy and great triggers right out of the box. Their stock barrels are some of the best in the business even still under the Cohen regime. I've put a lot of rounds through 226’s and other P-series guns and for me, the 226 is one of the most well balanced, shootable and inherently accurate pistols. That last point needs to be emphasized. The German made guns were head and shoulders above the competition in accuracy. I fired many of those guns early in my career and everyone of them was match grade. The pre-stainless slide finish sucked and was a real weakness and high maintenance for everyday carry. The barrel sits high in relation to the shooters hand but that’s just a training issue and I’ve never found it to be a big hindrance. Also, that big, high riding, all enclosed slide makes for much easier and efficient manipulation during IA/ failure drills when compared to open slide or internal rail guns. The 226/228/229 are very well vetted and battle proven weapons. As to the 226’s size and weight, I would agree with a previous poster that it is really a middleweight gun. That is, certainly light enough to be carried on a daily basis and heavier than most polymer striker fired pistols. But, that extra weight also lends to its shootability. Probably the best combo I ever had was a 226 for work and a 225 for off duty. Both were West German early 90’s manufactured, and had very tight lock-up all around. Both had well over 10K through them,(easily over 20k in the 226) mostly lead reloads and other various reloads provided during training and cross training with other agencies. Neither gun ever malfunctioned or even hiccupped and a lot of that ammo was some nasty crap. As a side note, the gen 2 9mm Glocks that we transitioned to were not as reliable, period. They were not unreliable, just not dead nuts reliable like the Sig's. They were prone to occasional stove pipe type malf's which would occur out of the blue for no apparent reason. We saw this a lot in OIS incidents. My theory, which was corroborated by Glock LEO reps at that time, (early mid 90's), was that the frames would flex under recoil. The reps would tell us to use +p/NATO spec ammo as the gun was designed to be run with hot ammo. We were using 147 Black Talons, so, this happened quit frequently especially with female shooters. I ended up shelfing my G19 for the P225 as an off duty because of the frequency of this issue. This flexing issue was apparently addressed and remedied in the design of the Gen 3 frames that were beefed up and more rigid in design. When we later transitioned to gen 3 23's I never saw the issue again and the same is true for all gen 3 and gen 4 guns that I have used.
As to newer P226's the quality and QC has suffered significantly. They are still, in my experience, reliable, and accurate but the fit and quality of the guns is not even close. The tolerances are, on average, much looser and the triggers are a step down and usually need some work to smooth them out. Just before Christmas I handled a new P229 Legion at the LGS with the intent to walk out with it. The gun felt great in the hand, but the DA trigger was gritty and stacked and one of the worst I have felt on a Sig and the SA had a lot of slip/creep in it. I took a pass. The design is still a solid one but the execution not so much anymore.

[gc70]

There was a time when all of my pistols were classic P-series Sigs. The quality, accuracy and reliability of those guns were top notch, with the P226 at the top of the heap. Things changed over the years and the number of Sigs I owned dwindled; I sold my last Sig this past weekend. A Beretta 92A1 and PX4 now reside in the spots in my safe that Sigs used to occupy.

[rauchman]

Reference the 226 grip, the 320 AXG grip seems to be 226 like in feel, and allows you to get higher on the grip than with a Legion Tungsten lower. This is a 320 I am shooting with the AXG grip, Lok heavy grips, and the 4.7 Pro slide with a 6 moa DP Pro.

81865

How do you like this vs a DA/SA 226?

I have a '95 P226 W German with the folded slide. Always liked that gun, but found the grip just a touch too big for me. Conversely, I have a couple of Beretta 92's (my wife has a '94 that was purchased when the 1994 Crime Bill was announced, that has got the sweetest trigger I've ever felt on a DA/SA) and a PX4 worked over by Ernst Langdon, that fit my hand better.

I was looking at some newer Sig offerings and came across the AXG grip models. As you mentioned, the do look very P226'ish in the grip using the AXG. Had an original 320 Compact, but the whole drop safety thing, and the way Sig handled it, had me swear off Sigs for a bit. Then I picked up a P365XL last year, and am very fond of that one. From that, I find myself looking at 320's again. And the AXG has piqued my interest.

Is the AXG gripped 320 the same weight as a P226?
Is the trigger reach the same as a P226 in DA?

[GJM]

How do you like this vs a DA/SA 226?

I have a '95 P226 W German with the folded slide. Always liked that gun, but found the grip just a touch too big for me. Conversely, I have a couple of Beretta 92's (my wife has a '94 that was purchased when the 1994 Crime Bill was announced, that has got the sweetest trigger I've ever felt on a DA/SA) and a PX4 worked over by Ernst Langdon, that fit my hand better.

I was looking at some newer Sig offerings and came across the AXG grip models. As you mentioned, the do look very P226'ish in the grip using the AXG. Had an original 320 Compact, but the whole drop safety thing, and the way Sig handled it, had me swear off Sigs for a bit. Then I picked up a P365XL last year, and am very fond of that one. From that, I find myself looking at 320's again. And the AXG has piqued my interest.

Is the AXG gripped 320 the same weight as a P226?
Is the trigger reach the same as a P226 in DA?

Between lying around with Covid, and only having shot a 226 twice in a few years, I am probably not the best person to answer your questions. They are both metal frames! :p

By chance, I was watching a Q&A with a Sig corporate guy on TFB some time back, and when asked what is their single best product ever, he said the 226.

[taadski]

The weight of the AXG with a 4.7” slide is in the same ballpark as an aluminum framed P226; both being in the mid 30 ounce range.

Folks have been dabbling pretty extensively with aftermarket panels on the AXG frames, But with the stock ones, the width of the module is a bit thinner and a touch less “round” feeling than a stock 226.

The 320 triggers sit (and break) further forward than a 226 in single action. But the distance to the face of the trigger is notably shorter than a 226 in DA.


T

[claymore504]

I love the P226 and think it is an excellent handgun and one of the best handguns ever. However, it does not fit my hand at all. The trugger reach in DA is way to far for me. One P226 I have has E2 grips and a short reach trigger and it is not too bad. I would like to try out a P226 SAO for sure. If my hands fit the P226 and P229 better, they would be my go to handguns for sure. I love DA/SA handguns and my primary ones are the Beretta 92, CZ P07 and P09.

[OlongJohnson]

I love the P226 and think it is an excellent handgun and one of the best handguns ever. However, it does not fit my hand at all. The trugger reach in DA is way to far for me.

With Hogue G2 grips, it's probably the best and most natural fit in my hands that there is. I have a couple spare standard-reach triggers on hand just in case I buy another Sig that happens to come with a short-reach installed. I've never had trouble finding someone to trade when needed.

[RAM Engineer]

The 228 was better than the 226 in every way.

[JonInWA]

The 228 was better than the 226 in every way.

And the P229. Which is probably why I never felt compelled to get a P226, as I had a P228 and multiple P229s. While they also went due to my gradual switch-over to Glocks, they were all excellent, accurate and reliable pistols. I just preferred Glocks for their weight, trigger, weather imperviousness, ease of detailed disassembly/assembly and low maitenance (and mine are all also accurate, durablle and reliable). I probably should have kept the P228, though.

Best, Jon

[JHC]

I briefly owned one of the US Navy SEAL versions. I really wanted to like it but struggled with it in a few areas. Precision for one. But holy smokes I think I could have figured that out over time. But unconscious competence to get the rearward position of the slide release was really daunting to me. I'm amazed some can flow between these and all others. I was forever lowering the hammer when intending to release the slide on a reload on the clock.

[4RNR]

I briefly owned one of the US Navy SEAL versions. I really wanted to like it but struggled with it in a few areas. Precision for one. But holy smokes I think I could have figured that out over time. But unconscious competence to get the rearward position of the slide release was really daunting to me. I'm amazed some can flow between these and all others. I was forever lowering the hammer when intending to release the slide on a reload on the clock.Slingshot!

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[GJM]

I briefly owned one of the US Navy SEAL versions. I really wanted to like it but struggled with it in a few areas. Precision for one. But holy smokes I think I could have figured that out over time. But unconscious competence to get the rearward position of the slide release was really daunting to me. I'm amazed some can flow between these and all others. I was forever lowering the hammer when intending to release the slide on a reload on the clock.

I see your problem there. The whole point of that big old 226 with that big old magazine is you have plenty of BB's to take care of everything and you don't have to touch any levers.

[NPV]

I briefly owned one of the US Navy SEAL versions. I really wanted to like it but struggled with it in a few areas. Precision for one. But holy smokes I think I could have figured that out over time. But unconscious competence to get the rearward position of the slide release was really daunting to me. I'm amazed some can flow between these and all others. I was forever lowering the hammer when intending to release the slide on a reload on the clock.

I was a Sig guy before 1911s and well before I caught wind of the greatest forum on the web. I always ran “thumb over thumb” while shooting, and slide lock reloads I found incredibly intuitive as all I had to do was put my firing thumb against the frame insert the mag and the slide ran itself home.

People that ran Glocks who would try my P226 would rarely get slide lock but once shown the trick would get slide lock 100% of the time. In fact when I shoot anything but a 1911 I still use the same grip.