training while sick?

[cracker]

I am on my 6th day of fighting covid, my head is not clear, I have had a fever for the entire time. I am bored silly only so many westerns to watch. was thinking of doing some dry fire practice, but with my head not being clear I am not sure it would be productive. I know I would be safe, just not sure it would be a good thing to do or not.
Do any of you train when under the weather?

[snow white]

If you are not focused on the dryfire in the moment I would say it is doing next to nothing for you as far as practical skill building or maintenance. I'd say if you wanted to do somthing in the realm of firearms when feeling like you are youd be better off working on mindset kinda stuff. Listen to a good P&S podcast (one of the recent ones with haggard, bolke, and Cecil was awesome I believe it was titled "defining your mission") or read a book and really work on internalizing the information.

[farscott]

I do not handle firearms while being ill. They are locked in the safe.

If I am ill enough to warrant staying home, I am not well enough to handle firearms as my faculties are compromised. I tend to lose my train of thought (fever brain) when under the weather, so I would not remember if I had cleared or not cleared a firearm. When I am ill, it is not unusual for me to just drift off in the middle of anything from a conversation to eating. I lack awareness of my surroundings. No need for firearms with that mental state.

[Norville]

Don’t something like 2/3 of plane crashes involve cold medicine?

Seriously, I wouldn’t dry practice until I was sure I was mentally sharp.

[cracker]

Thanks for the reply's, i will focus my energy else where.

[365X]

I don’t know. As long as the gun isn’t loaded and you feel like doing it, have it IMO.

When you don’t feel like it don’t. What if you felt even sicker than you do now, and you were thrust into the zombie apocalypse?

Then this training would serve you very well indeed.

[vcdgrips]

If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer.

[JCN]

I have different types of dry practice.

Some is more cerebral. Some is more just hand and trigger strength and speed exercise and is more mindless.

I wouldn’t have a problem doing weak hand revolver trigger finger strength training when feeling I’ll or being mentally less than sharp.

[snow white]

I don’t know. As long as the gun isn’t loaded and you feel like doing it, have it IMO.

When you don’t feel like it don’t. What if you felt even sicker than you do now, and you were thrust into the zombie apocalypse?

Then this training would serve you very well indeed.

That is some of the worst reasoning for bad advice I have ever read on this forum.

[Duces Tecum]

I train when injured, but not when ill.

Illness affects mental acuity, while injuries (at least the mild ones I've experienced) do not.

[vcdgrips]

I acknowledge I am extrapolating a bit with 1-3:

1. Multiple studies have found that driving while sick with a severe cold and/or flu is like driving drunk by a long shot, increased reaction times, poor decision making etc.

2. Would you dry fire or otherwise manipulate firearms drunk?

3. Why then would you contemplate dry firing/manipulating weapons in the midst of COVID, febrile, achy etc.

4. IMHO, I would note that the OP was already about 92% sure of the answer and confirmed with his question/response and subsequent posting. Good on him BTW.

5. Odds v Stakes.

6. But hey, if you think you are simply not like everybody because you are "special", dry fire to your heart's content while you have a fever, are achy and are aware of just how unfocused you really are.

I acknowledge I am a bit salty today as I am preparing for a trial.

Based on the better part 30 years doing this firearms stuff, sometime there really is a "THE" answer and you really are not the exception to the applicable rule.

It is sucking fupid to dry fire and manipulate firearms when you are sick.

[JCN]

It is sucking fupid to dry fire and manipulate firearms when you are sick.

I think we all have to make our own decisions as adults.

I have various dry fire setups that I don’t consider on the same scale of danger as loaded firearms and live fire.

I have dedicated dry fire guns with chamber blocks, firing pins removed, cable locks through the action, etc.

Those guns never see live ammo and live at home.

They’re color coded and dry fire specific. YMMV.

[Clusterfrack]

I welcome the opportunity to train in various ways when I’m feeling like crap. After all, we don’t get to decide when a threat will present itself.

As JCN wrote it is possible to develop safety procedures that are robust to not being at ones absolute 100%.

Some easy ones include blueguns or training knives.

[JCN]

When you don’t feel like it don’t. What if you felt even sicker than you do now, and you were thrust into the zombie apocalypse?

Then this training would serve you very well indeed.


I welcome the opportunity to train in various ways when I’m feeling like crap. After all, we don’t get to decide when a threat will present itself.



That is some of the worst reasoning for bad advice I have ever read on this forum.

Note that that 365X and Clusterfrack basically said the same thing.

Different opinions can be valid. Please be respectful rather than dumping on the new guy like this Forum likes to do.

[Totem Polar]

Not that anyone should value my opinion any more than the next guy’s, but I’d say to #1 train according to your strength as it is in the moment, and #2 double and triple down on safety.

An example would be the idea of sirt or blue gun work, per CF, above. I also like the podcast learning idea.

If I’m well enough to post on social media, I’m well enough to dry fire. So long as I am sure to apply #2, above, to both.
:)


JMO.

[Clusterfrack]

If I’m well enough to post on social media,

"well"?

Like when the Lebowski says "employed?"

[lwt16]

I had Covid pneumonia and was hospitalized twice in the last 8 weeks.

When I first started getting sick, I put the guns up….particularly my duty rig/bedside gun as I was not clear headed.

I trained the entire time but it was breathing exercises, not laying in the hospital bed, body weight stuff, and I would assume a bullseye, one handed stance and hold up things just to keep all those muscles used to it. Covid decimated my muscles so hydrating and nutrition took a big part of recovery.

Once I was at home convalescing after the second stay, I did start dry firing and broke the boredom that way…..oxygen concentrator humming along in the other room and my nasal cannula wrapped around my face.

I’m happy to report that at about the six week mark, once I was off O2, my range performance really didn’t suffer a bit. Only difference was I had to watch my sats walking down to swap B8 targets. I did some dry draw work too while healing and ran a sub second hit at 7y from concealment in live fire.

Heal up quick and good luck.

[snow white]

Note that that 365X and Clusterfrack basically said the same thing.

Different opinions can be valid. Please be respectful rather than dumping on the new guy like this Forum likes to do.

It has nothing to do with being new, it has to do with bad advice. Now that I see the other quote I will also say that is bad advice as well. If somehow you believe that handling firearms when you are not mentally clear is the responsible or correct thing and also that it will somehow build some kind of proficientcy when you may find yourself in that state again is just not correct. Do you also believe in getting drunk before going to the range, that way you can be "ready and practiced" if you need to use your gun after a few beers? I'm sorry I did not rebuke his statement in a softer way. Its nothing personal against him, only the statement he made.

[Clusterfrack]

It has nothing to do with being new, it has to do with bad advice. Now that I see the other quote I will also say that is bad advice as well. If somehow you believe that handling firearms when you are not mentally clear is the responsible or correct thing and also that it will somehow build some kind of proficientcy when you may find yourself in that state again is just not correct. Do you also believe in getting drunk before going to the range, that way you can be "ready and practiced" if you need to use your gun after a few beers? I'm sorry I did not rebuke his statement in a softer way. Its nothing personal against him, only the statement he made.

I'm happy to be having a debate. Please re-read my post below.


I welcome the opportunity to train in various ways when I’m feeling like crap. After all, we don’t get to decide when a threat will present itself.

As JCN wrote it is possible to develop safety procedures that are robust to not being at ones absolute 100%.

Some easy ones include blueguns or training knives.

[JCN]

It has nothing to do with being new, it has to do with bad advice. Now that I see the other quote I will also say that is bad advice as well. If somehow you believe that handling firearms when you are not mentally clear is the responsible or correct thing and also that it will somehow build some kind of proficientcy when you may find yourself in that state again is just not correct. Do you also believe in getting drunk before going to the range, that way you can be "ready and practiced" if you need to use your gun after a few beers? I'm sorry I did not rebuke his statement in a softer way. Its nothing personal against him, only the statement he made.

Let’s discuss and debate this.

Suspend your disbelief and listen to the following:

1. Testing when impaired if it can be done in a SAFE way can let you know what you CANNOT do under physical duress as compared to feeling great and going to the range after breakfast. It lets you know how you should modify your best case expectations for the impairment.

2. This kind of testing is / was routinely done in Delta forces from what I have read in order to test that very premise. Put the operator under extreme physical and psychological stress and fatigue and see what they can and cannot do.

There’s a reason for that kind of training and if it can be done safely it might be a really good idea.

[snow white]

I'm happy to be having a debate. Please re-read my post below.

I didn't see your whole post when I responded, only a small portion that was quoted to me. I agree with you in that blue guns would be an appropriate substitute.

[snow white]

Let’s discuss and debate this.

Suspend your disbelief and listen to the following:

1. Testing when impaired if it can be done in a SAFE way can let you know what you CANNOT do under physical duress as compared to feeling great and going to the range after breakfast. It lets you know how you should modify your best case expectations for the impairment.

2. This kind of testing is / was routinely done in Delta forces from what I have read in order to test that very premise. Put the operator under extreme physical and psychological stress and fatigue and see what they can and cannot do.

There’s a reason for that kind of training and if it can be done safely it might be a really good idea.

1. I agree that some forms of impairment can be useful for exposing weaknesses you would not know existed if not for putting yourself in those situations. I very much enjoy adding physical and mental stress in training.

2. As far as the delta force training you are referring to I have never heard of them inducing flue like illness and training during that time so I can not speak to that. I am aware they will do things like wake them up unexpectedly and quickly put them through courses of fire to see how they perform in that capacity. Or even keeping people up for extended periods of time and putting them through courses of fire. I assume these are used more as tests and less as training. I also believe using relatively uncommon SF training/ testing techniques is not a reasonable barometer to judge if what you are doing is a good idea. I am aware there are courses of fire that are done by some SF groups that involve live people down range as no shoots. Obviously a bad idea unless maby you are vetting a group of people to go kill osama.

I will add that the question was if performing dry fire in his flue like foggy state was a good idea.
The purpose of dryfire is to develop proper form and build the neurological pathways to perform what you want to do with less conscious thought. The way this is achieved is through focused deliberate practice. This means being present and focused with what you are doing and also performing your intended movements perfectly every time. If you are dryfireing and not mentally all there you are not going to be focused enough for any of your reps to matter all that much, also you will not be performing perfect repetitions therefore, reinforcing improper movements.
Now the question of safty needs to be addressed. I dont doubt he would be diligent in his proper dryfire safety precautions....but what if he slips up? Are there other people in his house? Do his children sleep in the next room? Does he have neighbors? We get very familiar with handling our firearms, I am guilty of being too comfortable at times myself. Sometimes its important to step back and remember how large of a responsibility it is every time we come into contact with our guns.

So all that being said... my answer to the original question is still a firm no, not a good idea.

[JCN]

snow white

I appreciate the calm, non inflammatory discussion.

I think that we all probably have different ideas on what is or isn’t a good idea and what kinds of things we do with our training.

And that’s okay! We have different opinions and that’s okay too.

I have a broader description and role for dry fire.

Sometimes it’s mainly for forearm strength and physical coordination with movement. Memorization of stages, foot placement on entry, etc. I’ll say that being able to be focused 100% is more effective but being focused 50% is better than sitting on your butt doing nothing IMO (as long as you’re not ingraining bad technique).

Sometimes I’ll walk around with my arm dangling down just doing left hand revolver trigger presses to improve strength and isolation. Sometimes I’ll do memory drills with empty hands. Dry fire can be a lot of things to different people and not necessarily 25 yard B8 groups.

I spend a lot of time with my young daughter and she’s almost always with me when I dry fire.

I’m almost never able to focus 100% on my dryfire but if I waited for that I’d never improve.

[snow white]

snow white

I appreciate the calm, non inflammatory discussion.

Yeah man, my response with the original quote was a bit spicy and I didn't mean to come off as disrespectful. But in my defense he did use the zombie apocalypse argument and it gave me forest Whitaker eye.

I'm usualy good for calm discourse.

[365X]

Yeah man, my response with the original quote was a bit spicy and I didn't mean to come off as disrespectful. But in my defense he did use the zombie apocalypse argument and it gave me forest Whitaker eye.

I'm usualy good for calm discourse.


Of course Zombie apocalypse was a joke.

Ok, how about reading a book, watching Magnum Force with Clint Eastwood and eating ice cream.

[snow white]

Of course Zombie apocalypse was a joke.

Ok, how about reading a book, watching Magnum Force with Clint Eastwood and eating ice cream.

Yeah man I was a bit spicy, I apologize. I still love you

[GJM]

Don’t something like 2/3 of plane crashes involve cold medicine?

Seriously, I wouldn’t dry practice until I was sure I was mentally sharp.

I believe the statistic is about 85 percent of aircraft crashes are due to pilot error, rather than mechanical causes.

Once I became really sick while at FlightSafety, and purposefully did a several hour simulator session, with the blessing of my sim instructor, to see how my performance would be while sick.

[4RNR]

Oh for God sakes. Only you know you, and only you know what and how you feel and react to being sick. I personally never cared about being sick. To me it was never a big deal even when I had a 103 temp a few years ago. Yes it sucked but so what life goes on and things still need to get done. If I can still clean after myself, walk my dog 3 time a day, feed him, get my own meds, make sure my employees know what to do, when and where...etc... then I can work an unloaded gun. Am I getting the most out of the practice? Probably not but I'm getting more out of it vs not doing it at all?

If you cant. If you have fog or whatever, then don't! Simple as that.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Mas]

I train when injured, but not when ill.

Illness affects mental acuity, while injuries (at least the mild ones I've experienced) do not.

THIS, above.

When the trigger finger of my dominant right hand sustained a crushing comminuted fracture at the proximal joint 40-some years ago, you damn BETCHA I trained like hell southpaw only. The injury occurred on a weekend prior to my arrival at what we'd call a "bucket list" class today, Chapman Academy Advanced Pistol in Columbia, MO. I shot the whole thing left hand only from the immediately following Monday morning on, including reloads, which taught me a HELLUVA lot, much of which I now pass on to my students.

But I did not take pain-killers, except for after-class Coors (original Coors, which at that time could only be had in a few states, including Missouri).

This coming week, I'll be undergoing a colonoscopy (required for us geezers). There will be NO handling of firearms until I am well past that "twilight anesthesia" they talk about.

ANYTHING medical that can have a negative effect on judgment is a big red flag against handling functional firearms.

[DDTSGM]

Let’s discuss and debate this.

Suspend your disbelief and listen to the following:

1. Testing when impaired if it can be done in a SAFE way can let you know what you CANNOT do under physical duress as compared to feeling great and going to the range after breakfast. It lets you know how you should modify your best case expectations for the impairment.

2. This kind of testing is / was routinely done in Delta forces from what I have read in order to test that very premise. Put the operator under extreme physical and psychological stress and fatigue and see what they can and cannot do.

There’s a reason for that kind of training and if it can be done safely it might be a really good idea.

I think most of us would find no fault with your statement #1.

Your second statement, while true for a lot of military training, doesn't take into account that in those circumstances there are others present whose duty should have been to ensure acceptable training safety.

[MickAK]

The OP asked if he would gain any benefit from training in a reduced state. He said that he knew it would be safe.

I don't see any reason not to take him at his word on that. 'Sick' can mean a lot of things.

Yes, you can gain a lot of benefit from it. Relying on your lizard brain for fine motor skills is not an easy skill to develop but I think it's an important one. When we start dry-fire practice we are typically at a low skill set. As our skill set develops, falling out of the habit of dry-fire practice is pretty common, because it's boring, time consuming, and you don't see the improvement you did when you started.

At this point I exclusively dry-fire practice while doing maintenance exercise (core, cardio, etc.). I do that because otherwise there just aren't enough hours in the day to get it done. Same reason I brush my teeth while I shower. It's an annoying maintenance thing that just needs to get done or you'll fall off.

When I started it was difficult to get my reps in proper because my body was gasping for air or in pain. After awhile the reps started to come natural again because I could do it without all my faculties focusing on the fine motor skills. I think practice while sick is pretty equivalent to practice fatigued.

If you can stand up you can practice, and safely. How you personally recover best from illness is what should determine what choice you make.

[pangloss]

If I were going have some non-trivial degree of mental impairment for a while, I'd order plastic training barrel to drop in my G19 practice gun. I don't know how long those last, but it's something I've thought about buying for years. I'm not convinced of the value of the practice under those conditions, but with COVID brain fog, the opportunity cost seems close to zero.

[MVS]

So I have to admit, I thought this thread was pretty funny at first. I mean of course you train when you are sick. After reading some of the responses I was like ok, that makes some sense. Fast forward to this morning at work talking to a coworker who just came back after 3 weeks off with COVID. He says he hasn't touched a gun in those 3 weeks as he is so mentally out of it. His symptoms have been mostly neurologic like dizziness, brain fog, whatever else. He ended up in the hospital with severe dehydration because anytime he ate or drank something he would throw up. At this point he is still not clear headed. I guess it makes sense not to mess with guns in a scenario like his.

[GJM]

Timely thread, as I just had a 48 hour bug with a significant fever and weight loss.

I would say the question is not whether you can dry fire when sick, because certainly you can. The better question is whether you are learning anything, because done right, dry fire takes more mental focus than live fire, since your brain has to replace looking at the target for hits. If your mental acuity doesn't support that level of focus, you are likely burning non productive reps.

[JohnO]

Do something else that will enhance your personal security/capability.

Get/read a book on mindset. Take stock of your kit. Do you have an IFK? Do you carry a tourniquet? Have you practiced applying it, each arm, each leg?

[DryFire]

I am on my 6th day of fighting covid, my head is not clear, I have had a fever for the entire time. I am bored silly only so many westerns to watch. was thinking of doing some dry fire practice, but with my head not being clear I am not sure it would be productive. I know I would be safe, just not sure it would be a good thing to do or not.
Do any of you train when under the weather?

Perfect practice makes perfect ... so i would weigh my ability to practice perfect. Otherwise, work on grip strength exercises for both w/h & s/h and wrist flexing. Get well.