Surefire light question

[Moonshot]

I am looking for a Surefire handheld light that I can EDC for use as both a weapon light (but not weapon mounted - my handgun won't take a WML) and as a light with enough juice to temporarily blind or disorient an assailantat at contact distance out to perhaps 10 feet. Disorient enough to allow me to vacate the area or draw my G26 if necessary (I am not LE).

I have narrowed it down to the G2Z MV (800 lumens and a wide field of view) or the EDCL2-T (1200 lumens and a long throw).

I prefer the wide wall of light the MV reflector provides, but there is no low beam for general tasks. It's strictly a combat light.
The EDCL2 offers more lumens and a low setting, and therefore may be a better general purpose light, but I'm not sure its beam pattern is best.

The G2Z MV works with the Rogers technique, and it's nice to have that option, but I almost always train using the Harries technique and sometimes the Neck Index technique. Either light works with those.

A quick search did not provide any info. Any suggestins or opinions?

[dontshakepandas]

I think Surefire is pretty outclassed in this category.

In my opinion the light linked below is far better than anything Surefire offers. The beam is very capable of blinding/disorienting at 10 feet, and probably much much further while still being great for general use.

https://www.bigtexordnance.com/product/modlite-plh-v2-18650-handheld-light-package-54000-candela/#clip

Add a thyrm switchback and it works very well while shooting also.

Only downside is the price, but there are lots of discount codes available and the rechargeable batteries will eventually save you some coin too.

[Moonshot]

I'm not familiar with the light, but I've had very good luck with Big Tex. I'll look into it, but yeah, that's not in my price range.

I should have mentioned in my OP that I am also looking at the G2X MV. Two light levels and the wide MV reflector. What I didn't think I'd care for was the two-stage switch from low to high or high to low, but perhaps I am over thinking things.

Again.

[ST911]

EDCL1-T in my pocket, lots of good use and carries effortlessly.

No shortage of decent to awesome lights out there at all price points. No excuse to be without one.

[PNWTO]

FWIW, I have multiple SureFire Sidekicks and they are fantastic little “chore” lights. One on my keychain, one on the dog leash, and one on my HPG kit bag and they do a great job of supporting a single mode lightsaber. It’s a minor additional cost but may ease the pro/con decision making.

[Le Français]

I carry the EDCL2-T every day, on duty and off. Surefire sent it to me as a free replacement for my LX-2 when the tail cap finally wore out. I really like the “gas pedal” switch (press a little for low, harder for high). The low mode is excellent for everyday tasks, and high is bright enough that I didn’t need more light while clearing a gigantic warehouse recently.

[1Rangemaster]

If Surefire is the consideration, I’m going to throw the “Tactician” into the mix. It’s 800 lumens with a “wall of light”, lower setting (10 lumens I think) by twisting the head and the best short lanyard I’ve had.
This, plus an old “Titan” are my usual edc. Plenty of options from Streamlight, etc., but that for me is the Surefire load out.

[Navin Johnson]

You're going to end up with more questions about what to get than answers because everybody has their own thing they like.

If you are fairly new to tactical lights the EDCL1T is the answer

It's the only tactical flashlight with an acceptable interface that has a low and high output with one push of the switch and no adjusting of the bezel.

You also have to be very careful of color temperature as the cooler lights are terrible in the mist or rain or with smoke to my eyes.

The EDC L2T is very long and won't fit into a lot of jeans pockets without sticking out above the clip.

It only has a bit more throw than the single battery one but does have a larger wall.

The clip on these is a two-way clip before bezel up or bezel down carry and it can also be clipped onto a hat to use as a work light in a pinch.

Max vision lights don't give the hotspot to get the blinding effect you hope to get from your light also if you need to see beyond 15 yards and there's a lot of ambient light it won't do very well.

Personally I would use a G2X tactical before a max vision. They're about $50

Undoubtedly people will chime in about the bodyguard from malkoff and it's a very good light but it's more like $200 and they're not always available. It's interface really makes it a tactical light only.

As advised before the best thing to do is have a dedicated light for tasks and a dedicated light for social purposes.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

If Surefire is the consideration, I’m going to throw the “Tactician” into the mix. It’s 800 lumens with a “wall of light”, lower setting (10 lumens I think) by twisting the head and the best short lanyard I’ve had.
This, plus an old “Titan” are my usual edc. Plenty of options from Streamlight, etc., but that for me is the Surefire load out.

While I don't have experience with the Tactician I believe it is best suited to EDC duty of all Surefire lights in the moment. You don't need all that 'throw' in an EDC and you do want a very wide field of vision to identify additional threats. There is no high/low mode to fumble and the tailcap is momentarily only, which is the only way I'll run a Surefire for EDC given how easy it is to accidentally turn 'on' and stay that way.

[vcdgrips]

Based on your stated purposes the 1 Cr123 Cell EDCL1T is an great answer.

Push a little - 15 ish lumen light for nav and tasks.

Push a lot- 500 lumens (for real) of light that will clearly work for most G26 pistol shooters and pistol ranges.

Made in the USA. Solid warranty and customer service (was arguably superlative at on point but may have slipped a bit)

150 ish street price.

Alternatively- the 600 lumen only single mode G2 with the simple on/off push switch at 75ish.

I refuse to feed the PRC monster in the edc/tactical flashlight space.

Either could be feed with rechargeables should you desire.

Elzetta and malkoff are both boutique made in the USA brands but often have stock issues. 1 cell CR123 models are in the 130.00 to 200.00 range with 500 ish lumens high output.

[Moonshot]

It's the only tactical flashlight with an acceptable interface that has a low and high output with one push of the switch and no adjusting of the bezel.
Whatever options I get, they have to be a one hand operation. Needing two hands to adjust the light are a no go.
You also have to be very careful of color temperature as the cooler lights are terrible in the mist or rain or with smoke to my eyes.
Did not know this. Thank you.
The EDC L2T is very long and won't fit into a lot of jeans pockets without sticking out above the clip.
I've used that double clip before and hate it. I would likely remove it.
It only has a bit more throw than the single battery one but does have a larger wall.
I know what throw is, but I've never heard of the wall. I'll look it up, but if someone wants to save me the trouble...
The clip on these is a two-way clip before bezel up or bezel down carry and it can also be clipped onto a hat to use as a work light in a pinch.
Again, if I end up with the EDC it likely won't have the clip.
Max vision lights don't give the hotspot to get the blinding effect you hope to get from your light also if you need to see beyond 15 yards and there's a lot of ambient light it won't do very well.
Max vision won't be blinding at close range? That seems hard to accept, but I can't offer any experience to counter it. I do know the max vision light seems to offer a cleaner image along with the wider field of view. I don't know if the wider field of view or the longer throw is better for a disorienting light.

As for feeding the PRC - that's a hard no.

If a dedicated light for a dedicated task is the way to go, I'll probably go with the G2Z for handgun work and stick with my AAA mini mag for low light work.

If a high low is the way to go, the EDC L1 may be a better choice, but wouldn't the longer throw of 1200 lumens and over 11K candela of the L2 be a better disorienting light?

[vcdgrips]

500 lumens at contact to 10 feet as the stated parameters should be quite bright.

I would defer to smarter light folks re 1200 lumens being that much brighter in that 10 ft space relative to the handiness of a 1 cell v 2 cell light.

My flashlight retail therapy this year had me upgrading 2 6ps and an E1B 1st Gen with Malkoff heads.

A reasonable argument could have been made to take that same 150ish and buy the EDCL1T.

[Le Français]

While I don't have experience with the Tactician I believe it is best suited to EDC duty of all Surefire lights in the moment. You don't need all that 'throw' in an EDC and you do want a very wide field of vision to identify additional threats. There is no high/low mode to fumble and the tailcap is momentarily only, which is the only way I'll run a Surefire for EDC given how easy it is to accidentally turn 'on' and stay that way.

With respect, advice without experience is generally not how we prefer to roll here at P-F. You recommend a light with which you admittedly don't have experience (the Tactician) based seemingly in large part on two features (no chance of fumbling high/low modes and momentary only) which are fully present in the EDCL1-T and EDCL2-T, both of which offer a truly fumble-free low mode. The Tactician requires twisting the head to change modes, which is a lot more fumble-prone than adjusting pressure on the switch without shifting one's grip. Even applying your own standards, the Tactician fails in the comparison.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

With respect, advice without experience is generally not how we prefer to roll here at P-F. You recommend a light with which you admittedly don't have experience (the Tactician) based seemingly in large part on two features (no chance of fumbling high/low modes and momentary only) which are fully present in the EDCL1-T and EDCL2-T, both of which also offer the advantage of a (completely and absolutely fumble-free) low mode. The Tactician, on the other hand, has a low mode but requires twisting the bezel to change modes, which is a much more fumble-prone activity than varying the pressure exerted on the switch.


Low mode is of no use tactically to my thinking, so what do you gain by having it when you could carry a small keychain light for that purpose. It should be a very distinct thing to get to low power like twisintg, it shouldn't accidentally be chosen by say, not getting your finger squarely over the tail button 'just right'. I don't have experience with the Tactician but I do use a Surefire 6P which has the same type of tailcap. I also have learned from the 6P that the weak point is the wall of light is not present and I wish it was.

[Le Français]

Low mode is of no use tactically to my thinking, so what do you gain by having it when you could carry a small keychain light for that purpose. It should be a very distinct thing to get to low power like twisintg, it shouldn't accidentally be chosen by say, not getting your finger squarely over the tail button 'just right'.

Have you ever used a "gas pedal" Surefire switch and gotten low mode when you wanted high mode, without the ability to immediately get high mode by simply pushing harder? I don't remember that ever happening, and I've carried and used such lights for perhaps ten years.

Note that you have to make sure that the tailcap is screwed to the proper depth, but that is true of any momentary-only Surefire tailcap, including the Tactician's.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Have you ever used a "gas pedal" Surefire switch and gotten low mode when you wanted high mode, without the ability to immediately get high mode by simply pushing harder? I don't remember that ever happening, and I've carried and used such lights for perhaps ten years.

Note that you have to make sure that the tailcap is screwed to the proper depth, but that is true of any momentary-only Surefire tailcap, including the Tactician's.

I have not but I can only assume that while it may be perfectly usable under normal conditions it is not a needed 'feature' to a tactical light so that means it's a liability to some extent so I'd prefer not to have it. Again, these are preferences in general and many of Surefire's lights have these features so there's nothing wrong with my .02 for thought to the OP here.

[Le Français]

I have not but I can only assume that while it may be perfectly usable under normal conditions it is not a needed 'feature' to a tactical light so that means it's a liability to some extent so I'd prefer not to have it. Again, these are preferences in general and many of Surefire's lights have these features so there's nothing wrong with my .02 for thought to the OP here.

Fair enough. I disagree that it's a liability based on my experience with it, but I take your point that it could be one in theory vs an even simpler system.

Moonshot:

Although I prefer and usually carry the EDCL2-T, I sometimes carry a G2 Nitrolon with an LED upgrade (momentary switch, only one output level) and use my phone's flashlight for when I don't need as much output. This is a very simple and lightweight setup with a lot of power and throw. You might be able to find a G2 on eBay for less, but beware of fakes.

https://www.dnatactical.com/products/surefire-g2-nitrolon.htm

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XCMQWVS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Duelist]

Moonshot:

Although I prefer and usually carry the EDCL2-T, I sometimes carry a G2 Nitrolon with an LED upgrade (momentary switch, only one output level) and use my phone's flashlight for when I don't need as much output. This is a very simple and lightweight setup with a lot of power and throw. You might be able to find a G2 on eBay for less, but beware of fakes.

https://www.dnatactical.com/products/surefire-g2-nitrolon.htm

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XCMQWVS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
That’s essentially what I do, except mine are a pair of 6Ps with Malkoff LED heads. One is in my pocket every day, the other in my backpack or travel kit for spare. Thyrm finger ring pocket clips. Simple, does one thing, sturdy enough to take smacking into things if needed, and low light is served by using the phone flashlight app.

[Navin Johnson]

The edct-1 and -2 as well as G2Z etc have beam shots on candlepower forum and you tube to get an IDEA of what they are like.

You need to figure out the interface that fits you.

If you know peeps with some of these then borrow them.

You really need several lights so don't be afraid to try stuff.

I have or have had all of the above (except MOD) I have a sidekick and a few other keychain lights for tasks. For walking the dog G2X pro. For "tactical" (not my favorite word) G2X tactical, EDCL-1T, Elzetta Bravo and Stream light micro stream rechargeable when applicable.

[NH Shooter]

...and as a light with enough juice to temporarily blind or disorient an assailantat at contact distance out to perhaps 10 feet. Disorient enough to allow me to vacate the area or draw my G26 if necessary (I am not LE).

This is all about candela, not lumens. The Modlite previously suggested has a good blend of both.

Carry a second smaller light for finding the keys you dropped.

[Moonshot]

OK, I took some of the advise offered here. This weekend I borrowed a G2Z MV and an EDCL2-T and tested them at night.

Inside my house I tested then as hand held weapon lights and preferred the G2. Its wider field of light did a great job illuminating various rooms and its lack of a super bright hot spot kept it from blinding me when reflected off white walls. The L2 lit all rooms, but not as evenly and it produced a very bright center hot spot, often blinding me if I looked at it. Also, the ring on the G2 that makes it usable with the Rogers technique helped lock the light in my hand even if using the Harries technique because the ring fit nicely between my middle and ring finger. The light felt more secure in my hand than did the L2 with the pocket clip in the way.

Outside was a little different. The L2 really throws the beam out and I could clearly see 2 or 3 times farther with this light than I could with the G2, however I don't think I'll ever need to identify out that far (again I'm not LE) and the G2 did produce a wider and more evenly lit area up close.

What I still don't know with certainty is which light will blind or disorient an assailant at bad breath range faster - the 800 lumen MV reflector or the 1200 lumen TIR reflector. If we're talking candela, the G2 has about 3000 and the L2 has about 11,000. I tried to get my wife to let me shine the light in her face but she declined (I never said she was stupid), so I did the next best thing. I used myself. Holding both lights in front of my face I shined them into my eyes (my eyes were closed). I would not want either light flashed into my open eyes. Ever. Which would do a better job - I don't know. I suspect both would work just about equally well.

Unfortunately I could not find an EDCL1 to test.

Based on my testing, I ended up buying that G2Z MV (my buddy had two). It seemed to meet most of my criteria. If I had been able to test the L1 I might have picked it, but I really like that MV reflector. If I can find a G2X MV I plan on getting it as well. The feature I liked most on the L2 was the low light option and the ability to immediately move into the high beam.

Thanks to all of you who gave me some excellent advise.

[NH Shooter]

Based on my testing, I ended up buying that G2Z MV (my buddy had two).

Solid choice. Here's my classic Z2 Combat Light (with LED module) which works well for me using a syringe grip;

https://i.ibb.co/Kb79rQN/z2-1.jpg

BTW, I suspect yours will run just fine on a 16650 rechargeable Li-ion protected cell.