AR Trigger assistance request

[Cool Breeze]

Looking for opinions on AR triggers. Unfortunately I don't have a bunch of experience on different triggers to figure out what I need. On ARs I have a SOLGW Liberty fighting trigger and a Geissele SSA-E. I may be in the minority w/ the "light is right" crowd but damn this thing just feels too light for a CQB/home defense setup. Not sure where to go from here or if its possible to change out to a heavier spring. If so, does the heavier spring change it to an SSA or is it different geometry? The Larue MBT seems like an interesting option also.

What are the benefits of 1-stage vs. 2-stage? I've never shot a heavy 2-stage trigger in an AR so I don't know if getting a heavier 2-stage is the answer. For example, I hated the gen3 glock trigger, but like the rolling break gen 5 glock trigger. The 2-stages of the geissele doesn't bother me but then again, I don't feel it at all. On AKs the Arsenal trigger was really gritty and I changed it for a Tapco G2 and didn't that. I haven't shot that gun in awhile, but I think it was a single stage around 4lbs?

[Tensaw]

I will be watching this thread with interest. I am *finally* getting my AR situation optimized. The triggers are the last (and most spendy) item (aside from optics) to be addressed. I have two AR pistols for in house use, a general use rifle centered around a BCM upper, and a fourth built around a Noveske barrel intended primarily for whacking varmints at moderate range. I haven’t yet delved into how I want to set up the triggers on these yet. I have the ALG triggers in two, which are fine, but they really don’t feel much better than any other mil spec trigger that I have run. I have eyeballed the Larue offering as well, but Geissle seems to be where it’s at.

Two other random thoughts from a guy with a lot of time behind Glocks, but not a lot behind the AR. First, it would seem like having a manual safety would go a long way toward mitigating issues with a lighter trigger. Second, concurrent with that, I watched a video the other day wherein an alleged Tier 1 gent advocated for taking the slack out of a two stage trigger as soon as the safety snaps off (all of which happens as the gun is mounted). Seems legit - cept when you end up with a rifle that has a single stage trigger. That might not work out so well.

Standing by for folks who know to chime in.

[Spartan1980]

I have several Larue MBTs and think that they are the best dollar value going by far. They come with a heavier spring in the box if you want it a little heavier. $100 for a tool steel wire EDM trigger? Yes please...

[Cool Breeze]

I will be watching this thread with interest. I am *finally* getting my AR situation optimized. The triggers are the last (and most spendy) item (aside from optics) to be addressed. I have two AR pistols for in house use, a general use rifle centered around a BCM upper, and a fourth built around a Noveske barrel intended primarily for whacking varmints at moderate range. I haven’t yet delved into how I want to set up the triggers on these yet. I have the ALG triggers in two, which are fine, but they really don’t feel much better than any other mil spec trigger that I have run. I have eyeballed the Larue offering as well, but Geissle seems to be where it’s at.

Two other random thoughts from a guy with a lot of time behind Glocks, but not a lot behind the AR. First, it would seem like having a manual safety would go a long way toward mitigating issues with a lighter trigger. Second, concurrent with that, I watched a video the other day wherein an alleged Tier 1 gent advocated for taking the slack out of a two stage trigger as soon as the safety snaps off (all of which happens as the gun is mounted). Seems legit - cept when you end up with a rifle that has a single stage trigger. That might not work out so well.

Standing by for folks who know to chime in.

I think I'm worried about the safety aspects of the SSA-E when when in a dynamic environment. Unless I'm paying 100% attention to the neuro sensations in my trigger finger, its very easy to blow past the second stage without even feeling it. Geissele says the second stage is .9 to 1.3 pounds. I'm curious if the SSA @ 1.5 to 1.7 pound second stage is really all that different. The MBT seems a little heavier at 2lbs but with tolerances I'm sure its all a wash. That being said, people all over the place use both as combat proven triggers so maybe I am just over thinking it.

[TWR]

I’ve bounced around with triggers from several manufacturers and designs.

What I’ve settled on is the Geissele G2S 2 stage. I don’t like variation between guns and with multiple AR’s I can’t get comfortable with a light trigger in a varmint gun and a heavy stock trigger in a HD gun. What I have found is the 4.5 pound National Match 2 stage type triggers offer enough weight be safe under stress and still be light enough for decent accuracy.

The LaRue with heavy springs in it is a good option too especially for the money.

[breakingtime91]

I think I'm worried about the safety aspects of the SSA-E when when in a dynamic environment. Unless I'm paying 100% attention to the neuro sensations in my trigger finger, its very easy to blow past the second stage without even feeling it. Geissele says the second stage is .9 to 1.3 pounds. I'm curious if the SSA @ 1.5 to 1.7 pound second stage is really all that different. The MBT seems a little heavier at 2lbs but with tolerances I'm sure its all a wash. That being said, people all over the place use both as combat proven triggers so maybe I am just over thinking it.

Ssa feels like a definitive wall. You can't miss it, it's a very nice break but you know it's there. The ssa-e was too light for me also.

[Exiledviking]

Looking for opinions on AR triggers. Unfortunately I don't have a bunch of experience on different triggers to figure out what I need. On ARs I have a SOLGW Liberty fighting trigger and a Geissele SSA-E. I may be in the minority w/ the "light is right" crowd but damn this thing just feels too light for a CQB/home defense setup. Not sure where to go from here or if its possible to change out to a heavier spring. If so, does the heavier spring change it to an SSA or is it different geometry? The Larue MBT seems like an interesting option also.

What are the benefits of 1-stage vs. 2-stage? I've never shot a heavy 2-stage trigger in an AR so I don't know if getting a heavier 2-stage is the answer. For example, I hated the gen3 glock trigger, but like the rolling break gen 5 glock trigger. The 2-stages of the geissele doesn't bother me but then again, I don't feel it at all. On AKs the Arsenal trigger was really gritty and I changed it for a Tapco G2 and didn't that. I haven't shot that gun in awhile, but I think it was a single stage around 4lbs?I had the same concern with my SSA-E trigger and asked Geissele what I could do to make it a little heavier. They told me the easiest thing was to buy the SSA spare spring set https://geissele.com/ssa-spare-spring-kit.html and swap springs until I found a good pull. IIRC I ended up only replacing the trigger return spring.

I agree with TWR that the G2S has become my go-to trigger for non-precision rigs.

[spyderco monkey]

I've been looking at triggers lately as well.

The Wilson TTU Mil/LE sounds pretty promising. 5lb, super crisp single action trigger thats supposed to be 1911 like.

They also offer the TTU, same super crisp SA trigger, but in the 3.5-4lb range, which is what I'm leaning towards.

I'm hoping at SHOT this year to be able to play with all the different AR triggers to make a decision.

[mmc45414]

I also wondered about two stage until I just tried the LaRue. I think the first stage prep would make it tough to inadvertently stress fire, but the heavy spring is part of the kit.

We have been making some rather demanding shots in our local three gun matches and I have really been appreciating it.

And the cost made it easier to standardize on.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[UNM1136]

I have several Larue MBTs and think that they are the best dollar value going by far. They come with a heavier spring in the box if you want it a little heavier. $100 for a tool steel wire EDM trigger? Yes please...

To quote Uncle Pat...."If Larue is an option, Larue is the answer".

This is my next upgrade. Every once in a while the can be had for $85.

pat

[Bergeron]

I’m interested in the SSA v. SSA-E distinction. I have a SSA in my .22 AR trigger, and once my gunsmith becomes available in January, I’ll be having both a 9mm PCC AR built, as well as a new 5.56 14.5” gun. I’ll be using the SSA or the -E, but I’m not sure which.

I get the sense that I could be comfortable with the -E, but I don’t really want a wall that I could blast through without noticing. I easily notice the SSA, but I don’t know how the sensation of “wall” changes with the -E.

[Clusterfrack]

I prefer 2-stage triggers on ARs (and bolt guns). I have a few SSA-e triggers, and do not find them too light for dynamic shooting, even with gloves. A total pull weight of ~3.5 lbs works well for me, and the 2nd stage break is very nice. I also have a single-stage SD3G on my 'gamer gun', and it's quite light and short. I've never had an issue in all the matches I've shot with it--more than a few of them in gloves in the rain or snow. However... I have Larue MBTs and a G2S on my home defense guns.

[Elwin]

I don’t have any other experience to compare it to, but I really like the G2S, especially for the price. It doesn’t strike me as super light, just clean and crisp. I’m used to the takeup now and wouldn’t want a single stage trigger, especially (like others here) with single and two stages combined in a collection. I don’t take the slack up on every presentation, but I like working through the two stages for precise shots. It’s not a detriment for speed - I don’t really notice the separate stages if I’m shooting rapid bursts at close range targets.

I find that the two stage incorporates well into the array of guns I have. A Savage with their Accutrigger, 1911s that have an appreciable amount of takeup, a PPQ and PPS with relatively nice striker triggers, etc. They’re all conducive “takeup - find the wall - break” shooting when that’s appropriate.

[ssc45]

Perhaps a description of the AR that you are looking for a trigger. What is the purpose of the AR? CQB/HD? Or precision or competition? I have 17 G triggers. Also have 3 Larue triggers and centurion, sionics and BCM. I use SSA/SDC for HD. My general use rifles have SSA-E/SDE. I finally removed my SD3G as I just didn't like it. The sionics/centurion 2 stage is the schmid trigger and though less expensive, are not as good as the G triggers. They have a bit of creep. The Larue flat bow trigger is nice, but I just have too much trigger time on G triggers. However, I believe they are a great trigger for the price. The BCM single stage is a good 6 LB trigger. I am sure it is like your SOLGW trigger. As you can tell, I prefer 2 stage. You can shoot a 2 stage like a single stage or use it to make a precision shot. Nothing wrong with a solid single stage for a HD gun.

It is just a matter of comparing what you have and deciding if you want 2 stage or single. Also, as the saying goes, mission drives the gear.

Cheers, Steve

[Doc_Glock]

Out of ignorance. What makes one prefer single stage or two stage? Clusterfrack

I know almost nothing about triggers but I bought a mess of Larue MBT 2S when they were on sale and standardized to them across all the ARs. I like them and feel they simulate the Glock take up then break feel. They were a cinch to install as well.

But I know Mil spec triggers are like 7 lb single stage so I don’t know what I don’t know.

[TWR]

For me it’s the added safety the 2 stage offers.

On a stock single stage, the hammer actually will move backwards as you pull the trigger, that adds safety but also weight and creep. Aftermarket single stages remove or minimize this and you wind up with a trigger not really suited for use in a high stress situation. The best example I had was a Geissele SSP and I added the heaviest springs I could order from them and it still felt like a hair trigger to me.

The G2S gives me the first take up as a safety, a solid wall, then a crisp light trigger to do precision work with or I can just pull through and shoot as fast as I want to.

[Clusterfrack]

TWR gave a good answer. Especially with gloves, I don't like a trigger that can fire when I first touch it. I want to feel be able to feel my finger touch the trigger, then have a second motion to fire. A decent Milspec trigger is ok, but doesn't lend itself to precision shooting. A good 2-stage can also be slapped rapidly.

Another personal thing is I like having triggers that feel fairly similar in most of my guns. I have 2-stagey handgun triggers (Glock, CZ), Geissele and LaRue AR triggers, and my AI long range bolt gun. I even have a Timney 2-stage on my hunting rifle, to the annoyance of several friends who are trigger snobs.


Out of ignorance. What makes one prefer single stage or two stage? Clusterfrack

I know almost nothing about triggers but I bought a mess of Larue MBT 2S when they were on sale and standardized to them across all the ARs. I like them and feel they simulate the Glock take up then break feel. They were a cinch to install as well.

But I know Mil spec triggers are like 7 lb single stage so I don’t know what I don’t know.

[Cool Breeze]

Thanks all - I really appreciate the advice. The difference of 1-stage vs. 2-stage that TWR explained was really helpful regarding weight and creep. I never thought of it that way. I ordered the SSA springs as it seemed like the cheapest option to see if this will work. That being said, I didn't realize the MBT came with a heavy spring so for other builds, I will probably just go with that. Larue's webpage seems to say it brings it to 6lbs but other reviews online say 4lb - Not really sure what to believe there.

[M2CattleCo]

To me, it’s about application.

I have years of experience with the SSA, and a lot of time on an SSA-E, and an untold number of rounds with a stock type single stage.

I may be a buzzkill, but on a gun with no magnification, especially one used for HD/CQB, the lighter two-stage brings nothing to the table and is still an increased ND liability. I wouldn’t want one on a house gun.

If it has an LPVO or ACOG magnified optic, then an SSA or a-E (and derivatives) can be an asset.

[Cool Breeze]

To me, it’s about application.

I have years of experience with the SSA, and a lot of time on an SSA-E, and an untold number of rounds with a stock type single stage.

I may be a buzzkill, but on a gun with no magnification, especially one used for HD/CQB, the lighter two-stage brings nothing to the table and is still an increased ND liability. I wouldn’t want one on a house gun.

If it has an LPVO or ACOG magnified optic, then an SSA or a-E (and derivatives) can be an asset.

Fair point - if you were going start a build from scratch what trigger would you use for that application ALG? I don't see many 5 to 6lb two stage triggers out there.

[mmc45414]

Larue's webpage seems to say it brings it to 6lbs but other reviews online say 4lb - Not really sure what to believe there.
I think some of this gets confusing because they might be referring to some total or how much the take-up is.
I have been doing most of my shooting with the MBT in my 18" gun with LPVO, and on some of the recent 3gun shots (8" plates at ~170, bowling pins at ~40-50, etc.) it has been nice, and on the short and fast stages it seems fine. So it is nice to have the same trigger in the two guns with dots, not sure I am going to change it, but maybe M2CattleCo has an interesting point of differentiating guns with scopes and dots, and maybe a sweet combo might be to have the MBT heavy spring in the dot guns? I have the factory stock CMMG single stage in the 9mm gun (with a dot) and it is no handicap, but we tend to shoot them at pistol ranges. Dunno, and I do not have much Geissele experience, but the MBT sure seems like a sweet spot.

ETA:

That being said, I didn't realize the MBT came with a heavy spring so for other builds, I will probably just go with that.
If you think you might want one you might want to order one. It might come in a few days or...

[M2CattleCo]

Fair point - if you were going start a build from scratch what trigger would you use for that application ALG? I don't see many 5 to 6lb two stage triggers out there.


Yep.

ALG, SOLGW, Sionics, Centurion, BVM PNT, I like all of the nickel teflon stock triggers with standard power springs.

[Darth_Uno]

I've got the Elf-SE on 4 of mine. It's light and crisp without being dangerous. This would be on my "if you could only have one gun" build. But I can't pontificate beyond the fact that it works well, and I like it. If someone says it sucks because it has/doesn't have X, I wouldn't know. https://www.elftactical.com/elftmann-elf-se-drop-in-trigger

I did have a Larue that came with my UU kit, but I sold the lower to a friend. Didn't own it long enough to really form an opinion on pros and cons. I do know it's very popular, and you can't really go wrong with it. If you're on Reddit (barf, but the GAFS is pretty good) they come up for sale often.

[pastaslinger]

I have had and tried several triggers. I sold the Timneys I had because while pretty good, the 3lb kept giving me light strikes and I just didn't love the 4lb one even though it was completely reliable for me.

I have not been impressed with Geissele SSA triggers, I think the Larue MBT 2S is better in terms of a crisper break and lighter pull weight (ignoring the price). I currently own multiple Larue MBT 2S triggers and am very happy with them, the only small downside is the longer reset compared to other aftermarket triggers.

The Geissele SD3G and similar are nice but are more for rapid firing. I think they are overpriced.

It's been a while since I've used a JP trigger but those can be top notch if tuned right.

The ALG options and BCM PNT are OK but you might as well spend slightly more and get a Larue.

I have a hiperfire eclipse and triggertech diamond in the mail to try out and I'll try to draw comparisons when I get them. I've heard them compared to the AR Gold which is possibly the best AR trigger I have used.

Edit: I am not in LE or MIL or anything but hypothetically if I had to have one trigger to do it all, including self defense, it would be the Larue. The breaks I have measured have been around 3.5 lbs consistently on them. They are simultaneously very difficult to have ADs or NDs with. I have also never had accidental doubles with them.

[Cool Breeze]

Just to report in. I just installed the SSA spring pack into the SSA-E and the first stage is heavier (which I think is actually really nice) so I feel a definitive first stage now. However, the second stage has not been affected in the slightest. You can feel when it gets to the second stage but it requires very little weight to break past that It reminds me of a very light 1911 actually. I find it really interesting that Geissele says the SSA has a carrot break and the SSA-E has a crisper candy-cane like break. I kind of understand what they are saying in that the second stage is very short so its either on or off but its not a distinctive break because its so light. I can definitely see how someone would like this in a precision setup.

Ill bring it to the range to see if I like it more in actual shooting. However, my gut feeling is that if I was going 2-stage I would definitely want a heavier second stage. Maybe I have been brain washed with crappy gen3 Glock triggers and their "glass rods" with the standard connectors.

[Cool Breeze]

Edit: I am not in LE or MIL or anything but hypothetically if I had to have one trigger to do it all, including self defense, it would be the Larue. The breaks I have measured have been around 3.5 lbs consistently on them. They are simultaneously very difficult to have ADs or NDs with. I have also never had accidental doubles with them.

May I ask how you a measuring the pull weights? I think it is a little weird the manufacturer adds each stage together to get the total pull weight. In my mind that doesn't make sense, especially if the first stage is heavier than the second. I appreciate the distinctive breakouts of each stage but a 3 pound first stage plus 1 pound second stage doesn't equal a 4 pound trigger in my brain.

Any chance you have the pull weight of just the second stage of the MBT? I'm curious if its near what they advertise.

[pastaslinger]

May I ask how you a measuring the pull weights? I think it is a little weird the manufacturer adds each stage together to get the total pull weight. In my mind that doesn't make sense, especially if the first stage is heavier than the second. I appreciate the distinctive breakouts of each stage but a 3 pound first stage plus 1 pound second stage doesn't equal a 4 pound trigger in my brain.

Any chance you have the pull weight of just the second stage of the MBT? I'm curious if its near what they advertise.

I don't really understand what you are asking because the pull weight of the second stage is going to be what a pull gauge measures anyways

My MBTs are around 3.5#

[M2CattleCo]

Just to report in. I just installed the SSA spring pack into the SSA-E and the first stage is heavier (which I think is actually really nice) so I feel a definitive first stage now. However, the second stage has not been affected in the slightest. You can feel when it gets to the second stage but it requires very little weight to break past that It reminds me of a very light 1911 actually. I find it really interesting that Geissele says the SSA has a carrot break and the SSA-E has a crisper candy-cane like break. I kind of understand what they are saying in that the second stage is very short so its either on or off but its not a distinctive break because its so light. I can definitely see how someone would like this in a precision setup.

Ill bring it to the range to see if I like it more in actual shooting. However, my gut feeling is that if I was going 2-stage I would definitely want a heavier second stage. Maybe I have been brain washed with crappy gen3 Glock triggers and their "glass rods" with the standard connectors.


SSAs are a little inconsistent with the second stage. Some will have more creep than others, sometimes you will get a longer creep or a short break with the same trigger.

[pastaslinger]

Got my Triggertech Diamond and Hiperfire Eclipse in.

If the Triggertech ends up being reliable then it will have my vote as being the best AR trigger, overall. The break is the best I've ever felt amongst any trigger on any platform. The adjustable weight system is very easy to make quick changes to it. Triggertech claims complete reliability at any pull weight but I haven't used it enough to comment. My one subtle criticism is that the reset feels weaker than I'm used to but it's an incredibly short travel.

The Hiperfire Eclipse is probably the fastest AR trigger I have tried. The break is actually less crisp compared to a Larue MBT and is more of a short rolling break which sometimes I like. The reset is very strong and short. The hammer force is very strong despite pull weight. It's surprisingly light at the break, with the "heavy" springs I measure it at 2.75 lbs and with the light springs I measure it at 1.75 lbs.

The AR golds I have tried fall somewhere between the Triggertech and Hiperfire. After that, I'd say Timney standard competition triggers (I haven't tried a Calvin elite) and the Larue MBT 2S but with different strengths. I would put the Geissele SSA/SSA-E below these.

[Nephrology]

I have 4x ARs with MBT2s and just bought a 5th for a gun I apparently will be building ... Very happy with them. My other guns are SBRs with reflex optics and ALG combat triggers, basically a smooth GI trigger. Good for that application. For magnification I like the MBT

[Colt191145lover]

For a 2 stage "Fighting Trigger" I love the Geissele SSA, but I started using the Centurion Arms AST. It's about 85% of the Geissele for half the cost. The LaRue MBT flat face with the heavy trigger spring is good as well, I just wasent as fond of the reset but that's just personal preference.
All of them are a sold choice and would serve you well.

[Tensaw]

I have 4x ARs with MBT2s and just bought a 5th for a gun I apparently will be building ... Very happy with them. My other guns are SBRs with reflex optics and ALG combat triggers, basically a smooth GI trigger. Good for that application. For magnification I like the MBT

So this speaks to my question. We think an MBT2 would be pretty good to go on an AR with a magnified optic intended mostly for whacking vermin at moderate distance? (But the MBT2 would not be the first, or even second, choice for a rifle intended for close-up social interactions? For that we would choose a nice single stage like the ALG?)

[Clusterfrack]

So this speaks to my question. We think an MBT2 would be pretty good to go on an AR with a magnified optic intended mostly for whacking vermin at moderate distance? (But the MBT2 would not be the first, or even second, choice for a rifle intended for close-up social interactions? For that we would choose a nice single stage like the ALG?)

MBT 2-stage is on both of my home defense ARs. I have SSA-E's on carbines and rifles for field use.

[Nephrology]

So this speaks to my question. We think an MBT2 would be pretty good to go on an AR with a magnified optic intended mostly for whacking vermin at moderate distance? (But the MBT2 would not be the first, or even second, choice for a rifle intended for close-up social interactions? For that we would choose a nice single stage like the ALG?)

I am not a navy SEAL or anything but I have had no trigger related issues with the MBT2s across 4x guns and many thousands of rounds. My guns with the MBT2s have optic ranging from 1-4 to 3-15 so I would say yes. It would go higher if I had an AR with a higher mag scope.

For $100 I have a hard time imagining that I would shoot better spending $100 more. just my $0.02

[Spartan1980]

So this speaks to my question. We think an MBT2 would be pretty good to go on an AR with a magnified optic intended mostly for whacking vermin at moderate distance? (But the MBT2 would not be the first, or even second, choice for a rifle intended for close-up social interactions? For that we would choose a nice single stage like the ALG?)

Larue puts the MBT in their OBR rifle. They guarantee sub MOA accuracy.

[TWR]

In a rifle I have to depend on, the last thing I want is screws that can come loose. So no adjustables and no cassette triggers for me.

Geisssele G2S are in all of mine.

[Biggy]

I have used all the major players triggers in my AR’s over the years, but I prefer using the Wilson Combat TTU Paul Howe version, 4.5 - 5 LB. triggers in my AR’s today. Overall,*for me*, they are the best that I have ever used.

[Nephrology]

How does the G2S compare to the MBT2S anyway ? I've heard mixed things

[TWR]

For me the G2S is closer to the same from trigger to trigger. I've had maybe a dozen of these and except for one instance where it turned out to be a bad lower with pin holes drilled off, none of them surprised me. Pull weights are the same, no creep, first stage same, good reset. I bought all of them on sale for $100-$120 over the years.

I bought 3 LaRue triggers and while they are good enough, each was it's own pull. I used the heavy springs (I like 4.5 pound triggers) and they seemed a little longer in the pull and reset wasn't as good to me. But a man gets used to things so it might have just been me. I like that they are made of tool steel and had no problems with them, just wound up selling them to friends looking for a decent trigger.

[pastaslinger]

For me the G2S is closer to the same from trigger to trigger. I've had maybe a dozen of these and except for one instance where it turned out to be a bad lower with pin holes drilled off, none of them surprised me. Pull weights are the same, no creep, first stage same, good reset. I bought all of them on sale for $100-$120 over the years.

I bought 3 LaRue triggers and while they are good enough, each was it's own pull. I used the heavy springs (I like 4.5 pound triggers) and they seemed a little longer in the pull and reset wasn't as good to me. But a man gets used to things so it might have just been me. I like that they are made of tool steel and had no problems with them, just wound up selling them to friends looking for a decent trigger.

I'm surprised by that, I have noticed more variation between Geissele triggers compared to my 4 MBT-2S triggers. The pull weights on the MBTs are all very similar at 3.5#-3.75#.

Side note, I highly recommend a trigger gauge if people don't already have one. It's illuminating, and let's me quantifiably know what effect my changes are having